| Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements? [message #385446] |
Fri, 26 July 2019 17:11  |
mrbrad
Messages: 85
Registered: January 2013
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Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements?
I have, and heard of others in the past, who have 'gotten' from eBay
>NEW< OEM never used Apple 40sc SCSI Tape External Units and due to
the 'age' of these, on attempting to use them, the rubber 'guide wheel'
(middle direct inside) just dissolves from 'age'.
So no on tries that anymore after having ONE doorstop as a result!
I also heard of a 'mod' go use a specific size 'nylon plastic tubing'
of the appropriate size and cut the right dimensions with epoxy and use
that.
From what I gather you 'might' from others again, probably on this
thread, get thru one tape on the unit, before it too craps out.
So my question is, is there anyone interested in making a 3d printed
just plain old 'plastic' wheel of the correct dimensions? It is still a
pain in the ass to fix, the bar that holds it is place (the wheel) is
riveted in, IF, I remember correctly. But you could probably with the
proper motivation of having a 3d printed wheel delivered that would work
you likely could tackle that issue as an aside with success and move on
with a working unit (finally) after decades of 'doortop'ness'
I don't know the actual dimensions of this wheel on the apple 40sc SCSI
tape drive, due to the following:
1) It grinds into dust when you attempt to run new OEM stuff due to
extreme age and rubber composite or whatever just grinds itself into dust.
2) Your first 'clue' and only 'clue' that your 40sc Tape Drive back in
the day was trying to 'brick itself' was when you tried it and it then
decided to destroy the wheel.
So not a lot of OEM wheels a guy could measure at this point in time.
Also, the tape drive itself MAY be a common SCSI tape drive from Seagate
or some other mnfg, thus there may be other options to checkout for part
numbers. Apple often left such labels on the inside guts of their
products, could be a clue.
Anyway, I see a lot of 3d caps for keys and other stuff for apple ii
junk..just tossing it out there as an options.
Would be worth some $$ to see if the various backup sets of the old
lostgonzo bbs as a time capsule would even work. Could all be for naught
because the tapes are all to old as well as the wheel thingy.
Anyway...something to kick around as an odd fix that needs to happen
or no one will be looking at apple formatted dc 2000 tapes ever again.
(now I know what NASA feels like on legacy media)
later
brad
former sysop lost gonzo bbs
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| Re: Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements? [message #385463 is a reply to message #385446] |
Sat, 27 July 2019 10:12  |
Steven Hirsch
Messages: 798
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 7/26/19 5:11 PM, mrbrad wrote:
>
> Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements?
>
> I have, and heard of others in the past, who have 'gotten' from eBay
>> NEW< OEM never used Apple 40sc SCSI Tape External Units and due to
> the 'age' of these, on attempting to use them, the rubber 'guide wheel'
> (middle direct inside) just dissolves from 'age'.
There are several folks who specialize in rebuilding audio tape machine pinch
rollers and idler wheels. Perhaps a costly solution, but I would look into
that if you need to get an SC40 working again.
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| Re: Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements? [message #385473 is a reply to message #385446] |
Sat, 27 July 2019 13:36 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 7:11:57 AM UTC+10, mr. brad wrote:
> Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements?
>
> I have, and heard of others in the past, who have 'gotten' from eBay
>> NEW< OEM never used Apple 40sc SCSI Tape External Units and due to
> the 'age' of these, on attempting to use them, the rubber 'guide wheel'
> (middle direct inside) just dissolves from 'age'.
>
> So no on tries that anymore after having ONE doorstop as a result!
>
> I also heard of a 'mod' go use a specific size 'nylon plastic tubing'
> of the appropriate size and cut the right dimensions with epoxy and use
> that.
>
> From what I gather you 'might' from others again, probably on this
> thread, get thru one tape on the unit, before it too craps out.
>
> So my question is, is there anyone interested in making a 3d printed
> just plain old 'plastic' wheel of the correct dimensions? It is still a
> pain in the ass to fix, the bar that holds it is place (the wheel) is
> riveted in, IF, I remember correctly. But you could probably with the
> proper motivation of having a 3d printed wheel delivered that would work
> you likely could tackle that issue as an aside with success and move on
> with a working unit (finally) after decades of 'doortop'ness'
>
> I don't know the actual dimensions of this wheel on the apple 40sc SCSI
> tape drive, due to the following:
>
> 1) It grinds into dust when you attempt to run new OEM stuff due to
> extreme age and rubber composite or whatever just grinds itself into dust..
>
> 2) Your first 'clue' and only 'clue' that your 40sc Tape Drive back in
> the day was trying to 'brick itself' was when you tried it and it then
> decided to destroy the wheel.
>
> So not a lot of OEM wheels a guy could measure at this point in time.
>
> Also, the tape drive itself MAY be a common SCSI tape drive from Seagate
> or some other mnfg, thus there may be other options to checkout for part
> numbers. Apple often left such labels on the inside guts of their
> products, could be a clue.
>
> Anyway, I see a lot of 3d caps for keys and other stuff for apple ii
> junk..just tossing it out there as an options.
>
> Would be worth some $$ to see if the various backup sets of the old
> lostgonzo bbs as a time capsule would even work. Could all be for naught
> because the tapes are all to old as well as the wheel thingy.
>
> Anyway...something to kick around as an odd fix that needs to happen
> or no one will be looking at apple formatted dc 2000 tapes ever again.
>
> (now I know what NASA feels like on legacy media)
>
> later
> brad
> former sysop lost gonzo bbs
You gotta love those tapes, I used to have one stuck in as a file area on the BBS it'd suck the requested file back onto the HD and then send it. In the end it took to many tapes to keep everything under control :( Not that this helps you at all, just reminiscing.
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| Re: Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements? [message #385488 is a reply to message #385487] |
Sat, 27 July 2019 21:31 |
mrbrad
Messages: 85
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 7/27/2019 8:23 PM, James Davis wrote:
> Have you looked at (plumbing) plastic/rubber water-valve gaskets at your local hardware store? Maybe you could find/addapt a round one of those that would fit the bill.
>
catch is I don't know the size. Nor the wheel anymore (disintigrated) I
wonder if there are actual schematic specs someplace for an apple 40sc
external tape scsi?
This is far down my list of stuff I need to do. Just hoping someone
with a 3d printer that makes keycaps and such could look into this. I'm
sure folk would pay $10-$40 for one to get the sc40 tape drive working
again. Just saying.
I'll look into the plumbing stuff as well.
stuff to do ...with too much you just don't do anything..it is a loop!
brad
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| Re: Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements? [message #385490 is a reply to message #385488] |
Sat, 27 July 2019 21:44 |
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Originally posted by: James Davis
On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 6:31:43 PM UTC-7, mr. brad wrote:
> On 7/27/2019 8:23 PM, James Davis wrote:
>> Have you looked at (plumbing) plastic/rubber water-valve gaskets at your local hardware store? Maybe you could find/addapt a round one of those that would fit the bill.
>>
>
>
> catch is I don't know the size. Nor the wheel anymore (disintigrated) I
> wonder if there are actual schematic specs someplace for an apple 40sc
> external tape scsi?
>
> This is far down my list of stuff I need to do. Just hoping someone
> with a 3d printer that makes keycaps and such could look into this. I'm
> sure folk would pay $10-$40 for one to get the sc40 tape drive working
> again. Just saying.
>
> I'll look into the plumbing stuff as well.
>
> stuff to do ...with too much you just don't do anything..it is a loop!
>
> brad
What are the tapes it uses like? Are they Cassette tapes with an extra notch on the back, like the Sider Tape Drive tapes? If so, then the wheel is most likely part of a Seagate unit internally.
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| Re: Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements? [message #385492 is a reply to message #385490] |
Sat, 27 July 2019 22:01 |
mrbrad
Messages: 85
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 7/27/2019 8:44 PM, James Davis wrote:
> On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 6:31:43 PM UTC-7, mr. brad wrote:
>> On 7/27/2019 8:23 PM, James Davis wrote:
>>> Have you looked at (plumbing) plastic/rubber water-valve gaskets at your local hardware store? Maybe you could find/addapt a round one of those that would fit the bill.
>>>
>>
>>
>> catch is I don't know the size. Nor the wheel anymore (disintigrated) I
>> wonder if there are actual schematic specs someplace for an apple 40sc
>> external tape scsi?
>>
>> This is far down my list of stuff I need to do. Just hoping someone
>> with a 3d printer that makes keycaps and such could look into this. I'm
>> sure folk would pay $10-$40 for one to get the sc40 tape drive working
>> again. Just saying.
>>
>> I'll look into the plumbing stuff as well.
>>
>> stuff to do ...with too much you just don't do anything..it is a loop!
>>
>> brad
>
> What are the tapes it uses like? Are they Cassette tapes with an extra notch on the back, like the Sider Tape Drive tapes? If so, then the wheel is most likely part of a Seagate unit internally.
>
tapes are dc2000 3m
yeah, there is an internal rod riveted you'd have to kludge around..but
that is doable if you found something to use instead of the rubber wheel
that no longer exists upon running any sc40 tape unit new/oem/or
used....all go to dust
but, that is the other thing i need to dig out and look at what exactly
is the 3rd party tape drive SCSI used in these beasties
brad
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| Re: Apple sc40 tape Drive 'rubber' wheel? Any efforts to 3d print replacements? [message #385506 is a reply to message #385500] |
Sun, 28 July 2019 13:29 |
mrbrad
Messages: 85
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 7/28/2019 8:51 AM, I am Rob wrote:
> On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 9:03:00 PM UTC-6, mr. brad wrote:
>> On 7/27/2019 9:58 PM, Frank M. wrote:
>>> is it similar to an idler/takeup wheel? maybe a cassette tape deck or VCR repair place?
>>>
>>> http://www.smcelectronics.com/vcridt.htm
>>> https://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/it.htm
>>> http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/
>>> https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/tape_rec_wheels_pres _rollers.asp
>>>
>>> f
>>>
>> thanks farther than I've gotten
>>
>> Anyone else want to run with this? I'm not sure when/if I'll ever get
>> around to this. But it is probably something worth doing, if for no
>> other reason to have access again to dc2000 tapes with apple ii stuff
>> on them.
>>
>> Anyway, this is some info now out there for anyone to run with.
>>
>> brad
>
>
> I would be hesitant on the replacement with alternatives. Hardware rubber tends to be on the softer, more rubber-ier? and somewhat sticky side and may wrap your tape around the wheel.
>
> 3D printed may be on the more plastic'y side and might cut your tape.
>
> And with the magnetism of the head may affect the type of wheel as well.
>
> just throwing that out there, but I would check an old electronics store for parts. Does Radio Shack or The Source carry such products? At one time you could almost getting anything from them.
>
That's the catch, old electronics parts of a rubbery nature will likely
just destroy themselves after 30 years like the OEM 40sc tape units did
when others and myself tried that route to get around the issue. The
parts would be just as old or older than the units and would just also
destroy themselves.
Some kinda printed 3d composite or rubbery/glue/mold or sum such would
work best otherwise say you found a more "modern' rubber replacement
wheel is what we really need. Something that will always be made and
noted for this unit in the future.
Otherwise any modern replacement now would also likely in 30
years would dissolve as well.
Thus, best case would be an actual modern made rubber wheel that would
do this job, thus not an issue. But alas, that seems unlikely. I lack
the info on the dimensions of the wheel and the skills for this search.
Sorta stuck if you re-read the above, unless someone could make
rubber/type mold of such a wheel from modern materials maybe in a mold?
It is a conundrum...a person could waste a lot of tapes trying various
stuff out I guess....as you try different wheels.
As an aside, I HAVE FOUND NO ONE who has one of these apple 40sc tape
units that actually WORK anymore. Used/OEM or whatever. They are all
deader than a post at this point in time.
Indeed I wonder if ANY tape drive of PC or any flavor actually can read
from a dc2000 tape anymore. This problem could be more widespread as
time goes on for all legacy tape units with this structure of the wheel.
But damn we need a working unit or at least an untouched OEM units to
look at.
That would be great for the simple reason someone could take a picture
of an intact wheel and get the dimensions with a milometer or something.
It is a universal problem likely with all tape drives of this era.
But hopefully, there is a replacement part (modern) we can find if we
can get the dimensions. Again for me and most of the folk I know the
wheel is destroyed as our way of finding out in a spectacular fashion
er...we have a problem of epic proportions on all these units.
It was 'quite' interesting back in the day, unwrapping my 'virgin'
Apple 40sc SCSI external tape drive and putting in a NEW DC 2000 tape
and then hearing a 'crunchy' noise and watching the wheel disintegrate
and bricking itself along with the tape, in the process.
Sheesh. That sucked. I think I paid like $150 plus for the damn thing
on eBay as well as my solution. poof! That dream ended quick!
So anyway, sure we can try old OEM wheels for the heck of it, but if
you find an old OEM wheel get the specs first before you may destroy
it in trying to get it to work maybe. So we can maybe use that to find
a modern equivalent from a VCR or some such in the future.
Anyway, I'm kinda clueless, how I see this whole thing. :)
later
Brad
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