| Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385215] |
Fri, 19 July 2019 15:59  |
|
|
Originally posted by: Frank M.
Hi All,
Is there a way to modify a ][+ so that pressing a button results in a reboot? Maybe connecting the NMI to ground or something? I'm tired of reaching behind my machine to turn it off every time I want to play a new game and would like to just use the keyboard to restart, like on my //e.
Frank
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385236 is a reply to message #385215] |
Sat, 20 July 2019 09:41  |
|
|
Originally posted by: Ralph Glatt
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 3:59:21 PM UTC-4, Frank M. wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Is there a way to modify a ][+ so that pressing a button results in a reboot? Maybe connecting the NMI to ground or something? I'm tired of reaching behind my machine to turn it off every time I want to play a new game and would like to just use the keyboard to restart, like on my //e.
It's been a while, but wouldn't using the SNEEZE program launcher help without having to resort to doing anything physical? I used to use it on my Apple //c, but that was over 12 years ago.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385242 is a reply to message #385215] |
Sat, 20 July 2019 13:00 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In article <b8d09b8e-6277-4bef-baf9-608e61ed4e89@googlegroups.com>,
Frank M. <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to modify a ][+ so that pressing a button results in a
> reboot? Maybe connecting the NMI to ground or something? I'm tired of
> reaching behind my machine to turn it off every time I want to play a
> new game and would like to just use the keyboard to restart, like on my
> //e.
Not that I know of, though as long as you're at a BASIC prompt, you should
be able to reboot by typing in PR#6 (or whatever). If your computer is
crashing into the Monitor after reset, C600G would do the trick. Rebooting
on a key combination would most likely require some sort of firmware
change...possibly the same firmware change that was implemented in the IIe.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385282 is a reply to message #385242] |
Sun, 21 July 2019 06:44 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
> If your computer is
> crashing into the Monitor after reset, C600G would do the trick. Rebooting
> on a key combination would most likely require some sort of firmware
> change...possibly the same firmware change that was implemented in the IIe.
Scotty, you forgot 6-ctl-p :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385287 is a reply to message #385215] |
Sun, 21 July 2019 08:03 |
retrogear
Messages: 245
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The problem was Apple decided with the 2+ to route the reset firmware thru a software vector $3F2 that programmers could use to their advantage to prevent prying eyes. BITD I wired a 100 ohm resistor and a thumb switch between NMI (slot pin 29) and ground pin 26. The NMI vector $3FB seldom got modified so usually would crash into the * monitor. Now I also use a power strip to save wear and tear on the power switch.
Larry G
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385320 is a reply to message #385215] |
Sun, 21 July 2019 17:15 |
|
|
Originally posted by: James Davis
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 12:59:21 PM UTC-7, Frank M. wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Is there a way to modify a ][+ so that pressing a button results in a reboot? Maybe connecting the NMI to ground or something? I'm tired of reaching behind my machine to turn it off every time I want to play a new game and would like to just use the keyboard to restart, like on my //e.
>
> Frank
Get a System Saver Fan. It puts the power switch up front.
Isn't pressing Ctrl-Shift-Reset or Ctrl-Shift-Open/Closed-Apple-Reset the same as a cold boot?
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385327 is a reply to message #385215] |
Mon, 22 July 2019 01:04 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 1:59:21 PM UTC-6, Frank M. wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Is there a way to modify a ][+ so that pressing a button results in a reboot? Maybe connecting the NMI to ground or something? I'm tired of reaching behind my machine to turn it off every time I want to play a new game and would like to just use the keyboard to restart, like on my //e.
>
> Frank
The joystick button could be used in place of the Open Apple button, and the RESET vector could be mapped to the cold start in ROM at $FA62, or you could probable use a resident program, that automatically-installs on restart, that taps into the reset vector to give you a choice of reboot, or exit to the prompt.
The program could be installed either between DOS and himem, or, Prodos and its buffers.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385343 is a reply to message #385327] |
Mon, 22 July 2019 15:28 |
qkumba
Messages: 1584
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Generally, no. Games often hooked the NMI vector to prevent someone from rebooting after the game loaded. You'd need an additional hack to force ROM to be mapped before jumping to the NMI vector.
Depending on the game, you might find that Total Replay suits you, though - we hooked the reset vector to allow ctrl-reset to return to the menu in many cases.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385347 is a reply to message #385343] |
Mon, 22 July 2019 17:34 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Frank M.
On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 12:28:14 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
> Generally, no. Games often hooked the NMI vector to prevent someone from rebooting after the game loaded. You'd need an additional hack to force ROM to be mapped before jumping to the NMI vector.
> Depending on the game, you might find that Total Replay suits you, though - we hooked the reset vector to allow ctrl-reset to return to the menu in many cases.
Right. I've seen the ][+ hang and do nothing before on reset, and now I know why (language card was mapped in). I guess forcing a power cycle was a pretty good way to keep someone from pirating the code.
Yes, Total Replay was why I was asking. It got some pretty heavy use this weekend. :)
I did notice that some of them reset directly to the menu. very slick. The demos, screenshots, art, the whole thing is just super fun. Thank you!!
f
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385350 is a reply to message #385347] |
Mon, 22 July 2019 20:05 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Frank M. wrote:
> On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 12:28:14 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
>> Generally, no. Games often hooked the NMI vector to prevent someone from
>> rebooting after the game loaded. You'd need an additional hack to force
>> ROM to be mapped before jumping to the NMI vector.
>> Depending on the game, you might find that Total Replay suits you, though
>> - we hooked the reset vector to allow ctrl-reset to return to the menu in
>> many cases.
>
>
> Right. I've seen the ][+ hang and do nothing before on reset, and now I
> know why (language card was mapped in). I guess forcing a power cycle was
> a
> pretty good way to keep someone from pirating the code.
>
Crackers would substitute an Old Monitor ROM to circumvent this kind of
trick. The Old Monitor doesn't have a reset vector. If you're using the
Language Card, you'll have to put the ROM on the card.
--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385373 is a reply to message #385350] |
Tue, 23 July 2019 19:25 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Brian Patrie
On 22/07/2019 19.05, D Finnigan wrote:
> Frank M. wrote:
>> On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 12:28:14 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
>>> Generally, no. Games often hooked the NMI vector to prevent someone from
>>> rebooting after the game loaded. You'd need an additional hack to force
>>> ROM to be mapped before jumping to the NMI vector.
>>> Depending on the game, you might find that Total Replay suits you, though
>>> - we hooked the reset vector to allow ctrl-reset to return to the menu in
>>> many cases.
>>
>>
>> Right. I've seen the ][+ hang and do nothing before on reset, and now I
>> know why (language card was mapped in). I guess forcing a power cycle was
>> a
>> pretty good way to keep someone from pirating the code.
>>
>
> Crackers would substitute an Old Monitor ROM to circumvent this kind of
> trick. The Old Monitor doesn't have a reset vector. If you're using the
> Language Card, you'll have to put the ROM on the card.
Does the ROM card (or the BrainBoard) override the LC RAM setting on
reset, on a II,II+? If so, that would be a convenient foot in the door.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385392 is a reply to message #385320] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 06:56 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Brian Patrie
On 21/07/2019 16.15, James Davis wrote:
> On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 12:59:21 PM UTC-7, Frank M. wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Is there a way to modify a ][+ so that pressing a button results in a reboot? Maybe connecting the NMI to ground or something? I'm tired of reaching behind my machine to turn it off every time I want to play a new game and would like to just use the keyboard to restart, like on my //e.
>>
>> Frank
>
> Get a System Saver Fan. It puts the power switch up front.
>
> Isn't pressing Ctrl-Shift-Reset or Ctrl-Shift-Open/Closed-Apple-Reset the same as a cold boot?
>
Ctrl-OA-Reset reboots a IIe and later machines. The II+ does not have
an OA key. The OP is looking for a way to implement some semblance of
the functionality.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385396 is a reply to message #385373] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 08:53 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Brian Patrie wrote:
> On 22/07/2019 19.05, D Finnigan wrote:
>> Frank M. wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 12:28:14 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
>>>> Generally, no. Games often hooked the NMI vector to prevent someone
>>>> from
>>>> rebooting after the game loaded. You'd need an additional hack to
>>>> force
>>>> ROM to be mapped before jumping to the NMI vector.
>>>> Depending on the game, you might find that Total Replay suits you,
>>>> though
>>>> - we hooked the reset vector to allow ctrl-reset to return to the menu
>>>> in
>>>> many cases.
>>>
>>>
>>> Right. I've seen the ][+ hang and do nothing before on reset, and now I
>>> know why (language card was mapped in). I guess forcing a power cycle
>>> was
>>> a
>>> pretty good way to keep someone from pirating the code.
>>>
>>
>> Crackers would substitute an Old Monitor ROM to circumvent this kind of
>> trick. The Old Monitor doesn't have a reset vector. If you're using the
>> Language Card, you'll have to put the ROM on the card.
>
>
> Does the ROM card (or the BrainBoard) override the LC RAM setting on
> reset, on a II,II+? If so, that would be a convenient foot in the door.
>
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. I can tell you that the behavior
of the Language Card upon reset changed when it was integrated in the Apple
IIe. Under the original Apple II and II Plus, if the Language Card RAM was
switched in, it would remain switched in upon reset. But under the Apple IIe
implementation, that address space switched back to ROM upon reset.
This change was made in an effort to ensure a more predictable operating
environment upon reset-- Apple guarantees that the ROM won't change, but the
contents of RAM could be anything. ;-)
--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385397 is a reply to message #385392] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 09:58 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Frank M.
On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 3:56:41 AM UTC-7, Brian Patrie wrote:
> On 21/07/2019 16.15, James Davis wrote:
>> On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 12:59:21 PM UTC-7, Frank M. wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Is there a way to modify a ][+ so that pressing a button results in a reboot? Maybe connecting the NMI to ground or something? I'm tired of reaching behind my machine to turn it off every time I want to play a new game and would like to just use the keyboard to restart, like on my //e.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>
>> Get a System Saver Fan. It puts the power switch up front.
>>
>> Isn't pressing Ctrl-Shift-Reset or Ctrl-Shift-Open/Closed-Apple-Reset the same as a cold boot?
>>
>
> Ctrl-OA-Reset reboots a IIe and later machines. The II+ does not have
> an OA key. The OP is looking for a way to implement some semblance of
> the functionality.
So a ctrl-reset to reboot would work if you changed the vector in RAM, as well as the language card. The reset routine pointed to would need to switch the LC off (in case it was on) before calling $FAA6 to reboot.
Sounds like it might be possible with some kind of modification to the language card itself to always turn the LC off if detecting a reset (something they did for LC functionality on the //e).
f
The routine pointed to would need to turn off the language card, which isn't done in the apple ROM.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385406 is a reply to message #385396] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 12:48 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Wed, 24 Jul 2019, D Finnigan wrote:
> Brian Patrie wrote:
>> On 22/07/2019 19.05, D Finnigan wrote:
>>> Frank M. wrote:
>>>> On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 12:28:14 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
>>>> > Generally, no. Games often hooked the NMI vector to prevent someone
>>>> > from
>>>> > rebooting after the game loaded. You'd need an additional hack to
>>>> > force
>>>> > ROM to be mapped before jumping to the NMI vector.
>>>> > Depending on the game, you might find that Total Replay suits you,
>>>> > though
>>>> > - we hooked the reset vector to allow ctrl-reset to return to the menu
>>>> > in
>>>> > many cases.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right. I've seen the ][+ hang and do nothing before on reset, and now I
>>>> know why (language card was mapped in). I guess forcing a power cycle
>>>> was
>>>> a
>>>> pretty good way to keep someone from pirating the code.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Crackers would substitute an Old Monitor ROM to circumvent this kind of
>>> trick. The Old Monitor doesn't have a reset vector. If you're using the
>>> Language Card, you'll have to put the ROM on the card.
>>
>>
>> Does the ROM card (or the BrainBoard) override the LC RAM setting on
>> reset, on a II,II+? If so, that would be a convenient foot in the door.
>>
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. I can tell you that the behavior
> of the Language Card upon reset changed when it was integrated in the Apple
> IIe. Under the original Apple II and II Plus, if the Language Card RAM was
> switched in, it would remain switched in upon reset. But under the Apple IIe
> implementation, that address space switched back to ROM upon reset.
>
> This change was made in an effort to ensure a more predictable operating
> environment upon reset-- Apple guarantees that the ROM won't change, but the
> contents of RAM could be anything. ;-)
I wonder if it might be possible to so hack an LC, then add a button tied
to B0 to the chassis, then - and I've done this last part - modify the ROM
to check for B0 down and reboot.
-uso.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385408 is a reply to message #385215] |
Wed, 24 July 2019 13:11 |
|
|
Originally posted by: edward.a.armstrong
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 3:59:21 PM UTC-4, Frank M. wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Is there a way to modify a ][+ so that pressing a button results in a reboot? Maybe connecting the NMI to ground or something? I'm tired of reaching behind my machine to turn it off every time I want to play a new game and would like to just use the keyboard to restart, like on my //e.
>
> Frank
poke 1012,0
then pr#6
That will force a reboot on control-reset for quite a bit of stuff.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reboot / Control-OA-Reset on a ][+? [message #385417 is a reply to message #385396] |
Thu, 25 July 2019 01:43 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Brian Patrie
On 24/07/2019 07.53, D Finnigan wrote:
> Brian Patrie wrote:
....
>> Does the ROM card (or the BrainBoard) override the LC RAM setting on
>> reset, on a II,II+? If so, that would be a convenient foot in the door.
>>
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. I can tell you that the behavior
> of the Language Card upon reset changed when it was integrated in the Apple
> IIe. Under the original Apple II and II Plus, if the Language Card RAM was
> switched in, it would remain switched in upon reset. But under the Apple IIe
> implementation, that address space switched back to ROM upon reset.
>
> This change was made in an effort to ensure a more predictable operating
> environment upon reset-- Apple guarantees that the ROM won't change, but the
> contents of RAM could be anything. ;-)
I'm asking if the various firmware cards out there (Interger BASIC
Firmware Card, AppleSoft Firmware Card, Mike Willegal's BrainBoard) will
take over on resetting a II or II+, in spite of the host machine's
normal behaviour of leaving LC RAM active on reset. In other words,
will any of them do what the II,II+ fail to do?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
