z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383114] |
Mon, 15 April 2019 17:44 |
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Originally posted by: paul.s.macmillan
I'm guessing the answer is No, but does anybody think that a z-ram ultra 3 would work with an Apple //c Plus?
I haven't seen any mention of this but I would love to hear that it works...
-Paul
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383125 is a reply to message #383114] |
Mon, 15 April 2019 23:01 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 3:44:29 PM UTC-6, paul.s....@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm guessing the answer is No, but does anybody think that a z-ram ultra 3 would work with an Apple //c Plus?
>
> I haven't seen any mention of this but I would love to hear that it works...
>
> -Paul
I tried the Z-Ram 2 in my IIc+. No Dice. The Z-Ram 3 is essentially the same with the Z80.
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383126 is a reply to message #383114] |
Mon, 15 April 2019 23:13 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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<paul.s.macmillan@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm guessing the answer is No, but does anybody think that a z-ram ultra
> 3 would work with an Apple //c Plus?
>
> I haven't seen any mention of this but I would love to hear that it works...
>
> -Paul
>
Since the Z-RAM plugs into the processor socket (and more), and the
processor of the //c+ is different in placement and frequency, I’d say no.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383128 is a reply to message #383126] |
Tue, 16 April 2019 06:19 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 1:14:00 PM UTC+10, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> <paul.s.macmillan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm guessing the answer is No, but does anybody think that a z-ram ultra
>> 3 would work with an Apple //c Plus?
>>
>> I haven't seen any mention of this but I would love to hear that it works...
>>
>> -Paul
>>
>
> Since the Z-RAM plugs into the processor socket (and more), and the
> processor of the //c+ is different in placement and frequency, I’d say no.
>
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Hmm intriguing.. I can understand the sockets being in different places, but I'm going to go with the if you can get the plumbing right, it just might work. The extra speed in the C+ is like a fast chip isn't it? So its all on the processor itself, if that processor mounts back into the zram, why not....
Now that I've popped all this in, I just noticed Robs post up there says no... so ROB what didn't work?
A
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383130 is a reply to message #383128] |
Tue, 16 April 2019 11:42 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 4:19:41 AM UTC-6, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 1:14:00 PM UTC+10, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> paul wrote:
>>> I'm guessing the answer is No, but does anybody think that a z-ram ultra
>>> 3 would work with an Apple //c Plus?
>>>
>>> I haven't seen any mention of this but I would love to hear that it works...
>>>
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>
>> Since the Z-RAM plugs into the processor socket (and more), and the
>> processor of the //c+ is different in placement and frequency, I’d say no.
>>
>> --
>> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
>
> Hmm intriguing.. I can understand the sockets being in different places, but I'm going to go with the if you can get the plumbing right, it just might work. The extra speed in the C+ is like a fast chip isn't it? So its all on the processor itself, if that processor mounts back into the zram, why not....
>
> Now that I've popped all this in, I just noticed Robs post up there says no.. so ROB what didn't work?
>
> A
The plumbing!!! :)
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383138 is a reply to message #383130] |
Tue, 16 April 2019 18:51 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 1:42:11 AM UTC+10, I am Rob wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 4:19:41 AM UTC-6, Anthony Adverse wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 1:14:00 PM UTC+10, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>> paul wrote:
>>>> I'm guessing the answer is No, but does anybody think that a z-ram ultra
>>>> 3 would work with an Apple //c Plus?
>>>>
>>>> I haven't seen any mention of this but I would love to hear that it works...
>>>>
>>>> -Paul
>>>>
>>>
>>> Since the Z-RAM plugs into the processor socket (and more), and the
>>> processor of the //c+ is different in placement and frequency, I’d say no.
>>>
>>> --
>>> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
>>
>> Hmm intriguing.. I can understand the sockets being in different places, but I'm going to go with the if you can get the plumbing right, it just might work. The extra speed in the C+ is like a fast chip isn't it? So its all on the processor itself, if that processor mounts back into the zram, why not....
>>
>> Now that I've popped all this in, I just noticed Robs post up there says no.. so ROB what didn't work?
>>
>> A
>
>
> The plumbing!!! :)
Chuckle, I imagine you'd have to either insert an adapter card, or cable it..
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383217 is a reply to message #383128] |
Fri, 19 April 2019 20:23 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> Hmm intriguing.. I can understand the sockets being in different places, but I'm going to go with the if you can get the plumbing right, it just might work. The extra speed in the C+ is like a fast chip isn't it? So its all on the processor itself, if that processor mounts back into the zram, why not....
>
> Now that I've popped all this in, I just noticed Robs post up there says no.. so ROB what didn't work?
>
> A
I was playing around with setting the clock on my ZRAM-2 on a regular IIc and now that I think of it and hearing how finicky apple hardware is, I don't know if either the clock or the Z80 chip would take instructions at a faster cpu speed than 1 Mhz, although I am sure the RAM would be ok.
On the same subject, I installed a 32 Mhz oscillator in my IIc+ and it gives me a stable 8 Mhz speed. I would do this upgrade to any IIc+ over getting extra Ram for it.
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383222 is a reply to message #383128] |
Fri, 19 April 2019 22:40 |
mdj
Messages: 301 Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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On Tuesday, 16 April 2019 20:19:41 UTC+10, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 1:14:00 PM UTC+10, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>> I'm guessing the answer is No, but does anybody think that a z-ram ultra
>>> 3 would work with an Apple //c Plus?
>>>
>>> I haven't seen any mention of this but I would love to hear that it works...
>>>
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>
>> Since the Z-RAM plugs into the processor socket (and more), and the
>> processor of the //c+ is different in placement and frequency, I’d say no.
>>
>> --
>> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
>
> Hmm intriguing.. I can understand the sockets being in different places, but I'm going to go with the if you can get the plumbing right, it just might work. The extra speed in the C+ is like a fast chip isn't it? So its all on the processor itself, if that processor mounts back into the zram, why not....
If it was possible to rig the onboard ZipChip circuitry to power up disabled, it might be possible to get it to work, but good luck ever figuring that out.
Of course, it makes far more practical sense to install the Z-RAM in a regular IIc and install a ZipChip on the Z-RAM. The 5.25" internal drive is of far more practical use than the 3.5"
The IIc+ is a series of 'design' decisions to make sure Apple didn't get out checkboxed on education RFPs by Laser.
They could've achieved the same outcomes of performance and 3.5" drive by hacking the slots of a IIgs motherboard and using that without having to license the Zip Chip or develop the MIG circuitry. It really shows you how committed they were to market segmentation and cash-cowing the Apple II that such an obvious thing wasn't done.
Matt
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383228 is a reply to message #383203] |
Sat, 20 April 2019 04:55 |
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Originally posted by: Anthony Adverse
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 6:58:55 AM UTC+10, wayne_j...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> It's not all on the processor. It's basically a zipchip but instead of the parts being all on the chip Apple put them on the IIc Plus motherboard so there's the processor, tag & cache chips, oscillator and other chips.
I don't think I've ever been in the same room as a c+ so forgive my ignorance. I'm surprised they put goodies on the Mobo, given what Apple was like..
A
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383229 is a reply to message #383228] |
Sat, 20 April 2019 05:30 |
mdj
Messages: 301 Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Saturday, 20 April 2019 18:55:27 UTC+10, Anthony Adverse wrote:
> On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 6:58:55 AM UTC+10, wayne_j...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> It's not all on the processor. It's basically a zipchip but instead of the parts being all on the chip Apple put them on the IIc Plus motherboard so there's the processor, tag & cache chips, oscillator and other chips.
>
> I don't think I've ever been in the same room as a c+ so forgive my ignorance. I'm surprised they put goodies on the Mobo, given what Apple was like..
There were concerned about the reliability of the Zip Chip. Those concerns were probably well founded - the early units have habit of SRAM failure, probably due to quality control issues in the potting process.
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383281 is a reply to message #383217] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 12:35 |
Steven Hirsch
Messages: 798 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On 4/19/19 8:23 PM, I am Rob wrote:
> I was playing around with setting the clock on my ZRAM-2 on a regular IIc
> and now that I think of it and hearing how finicky apple hardware is, I
> don't know if either the clock or the Z80 chip would take instructions at a
> faster cpu speed than 1 Mhz, although I am sure the RAM would be ok.
>
> On the same subject, I installed a 32 Mhz oscillator in my IIc+ and it
> gives me a stable 8 Mhz speed. I would do this upgrade to any IIc+ over
> getting extra Ram for it.
Most of them seem to tolerate this upgrade quite well. I have one here that's
been similarly modified.
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383288 is a reply to message #383281] |
Sun, 21 April 2019 21:08 |
mdj
Messages: 301 Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, 22 April 2019 02:35:57 UTC+10, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>> On the same subject, I installed a 32 Mhz oscillator in my IIc+ and it
>> gives me a stable 8 Mhz speed. I would do this upgrade to any IIc+ over
>> getting extra Ram for it.
>
> Most of them seem to tolerate this upgrade quite well. I have one here that's
> been similarly modified.
Mine does 10Mhz just fine, which is somewhat bemusing as the SRAM is labelled 100ns. In practice these parts must be about half that access time.
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383486 is a reply to message #383281] |
Thu, 02 May 2019 01:40 |
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Originally posted by: csabainian
On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 2:35:57 AM UTC+10, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> On 4/19/19 8:23 PM, I am Rob wrote:
>
>> I was playing around with setting the clock on my ZRAM-2 on a regular IIc
>> and now that I think of it and hearing how finicky apple hardware is, I
>> don't know if either the clock or the Z80 chip would take instructions at a
>> faster cpu speed than 1 Mhz, although I am sure the RAM would be ok.
>>
>> On the same subject, I installed a 32 Mhz oscillator in my IIc+ and it
>> gives me a stable 8 Mhz speed. I would do this upgrade to any IIc+ over
>> getting extra Ram for it.
>
> Most of them seem to tolerate this upgrade quite well. I have one here that's
> been similarly modified.
Can anyone provide, or link to, detailed instructions for doing this
oscillator upgrade?
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Re: z-ram and Apple //c Plus !?? [message #383531 is a reply to message #383486] |
Thu, 02 May 2019 20:32 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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csabainian <lachlan.rimes@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 2:35:57 AM UTC+10, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>> On 4/19/19 8:23 PM, I am Rob wrote:
>>
>>> I was playing around with setting the clock on my ZRAM-2 on a regular IIc
>>> and now that I think of it and hearing how finicky apple hardware is, I
>>> don't know if either the clock or the Z80 chip would take instructions at a
>>> faster cpu speed than 1 Mhz, although I am sure the RAM would be ok.
>>>
>>> On the same subject, I installed a 32 Mhz oscillator in my IIc+ and it
>>> gives me a stable 8 Mhz speed. I would do this upgrade to any IIc+ over
>>> getting extra Ram for it.
>>
>> Most of them seem to tolerate this upgrade quite well. I have one here that's
>> been similarly modified.
>
> Can anyone provide, or link to, detailed instructions for doing this
> oscillator upgrade?
>
It’s pretty straightforward—you just replace the 16MHz crystal oscillator
with a higher frequency oscillator. 32MHz is the most common successful
replacement.
Most people add a socket to make “downgrading” easier if desired, and a
nylon zip tie around the socket and oscillator is recommended for shock
resistance.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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