| Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380192] |
Sun, 27 January 2019 06:25  |
ianbatty311@gmail.com
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hi, folks,
I have an early Mac, it has the square RJ11 keyboard connector, DB mouse
connector and a single floppy drive.
It boots to the screen, but displays the "sad mac" icon, as I do not
have a startup disk.
I understand that this is a 400 k, single-sided disk.
I do have another Mac, but it's an SE30 with the double-sided
higher-capacity drives.
So, (i) can I get a suitable disk from you or one of your members, or
(ii) is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30 (I have plenty
of spare disks).
I do have a complete set of setup disks for System 6 and System 7, but I
understand that these will also have the incompatible high-capacity format.
Thanks in advance,
Ian Batty, Secretary, Historical Radio Society of Australia,
79 Rosebud Avenue,
Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
mob' 0402 736 527
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380194 is a reply to message #380192] |
Sun, 27 January 2019 06:47  |
Jonathan Morton
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> On 27 Jan, 2019, at 1:25 pm, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30
It should be possible to do this, one way or another.
Step 1 is to convert a high-density disk into a double-density one by filling the extra sense hole (opposite the write-protect one). A small wad of paper and/or a piece of tape should do it.
Step 2 is to format the disk in your SE30. A Mac Plus already has an 800K drive, so you can use the double-sided formats and are not restricted to 400K. Only the first 128K and 512K models have single-sided drives, and they are limited to System 4.1, not 6.
For Step 3, you should be able to install System (or restore a working disk image) on the floppy using your SE30. If there's an "install for any Mac" option, use it. If you run into trouble, come back and ask for more advice.
- Jonathan Morton
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380547 is a reply to message #380192] |
Sun, 03 February 2019 10:57 |
Jerri Kohl
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2018
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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A sad mac means there is an error. If it was just waiting on a system disk,
there would be an icon of a floppy disk with a flashing "?". Here's a
couple of pages on sad mac error codes:
- https://udcf.gla.ac.uk/~gwm1h/Error_Codes/Sad_Mac_Codes.html
- http://myoldmac.net/FAQ/SADerror.htm
What type of Mac do you have? It will say on the back. As Jonathan
mentioned, the Plus has an 800KB double-side drive, and the 512Ke and ED
(for education) do, as well. You can tell these models on the back (as
sometimes they're upgraded, but the front piece hasn't been) by the model
#s M0001A for Plus, M0001E for 512Ke, and M0001D/M0001ED for ED.
On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 6:25 AM Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, folks,
>
> I have an early Mac, it has the square RJ11 keyboard connector, DB mouse
> connector and a single floppy drive.
>
> It boots to the screen, but displays the "sad mac" icon, as I do not
> have a startup disk.
>
> I understand that this is a 400 k, single-sided disk.
>
> I do have another Mac, but it's an SE30 with the double-sided
> higher-capacity drives.
>
> So, (i) can I get a suitable disk from you or one of your members, or
> (ii) is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30 (I have plenty
> of spare disks).
>
> I do have a complete set of setup disks for System 6 and System 7, but I
> understand that these will also have the incompatible high-capacity format.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ian Batty, Secretary, Historical Radio Society of Australia,
>
> 79 Rosebud Avenue,
>
> Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
>
> mob' 0402 736 527
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
> --
> --
> -----
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
> group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com
> To leave this group, send email to
> vintage-macs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
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>
> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380719 is a reply to message #380192] |
Tue, 05 February 2019 16:12 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Ian,
I'm with Jerri Kohl on this.
A SAD MAC indicates an issue with the hardware. That means it could be missing or faulty RAM, leaked capacitors or some other faulty component. That is always down to the digital board (logic board, motherboard).
The fact that it powers on does not exclude the analog board where the power supply and video circuits are found. Some of the power circuits may be out of tolerance (age related and a result of temperatures and old components) and as such they may not be feeding the correct voltages back to the digital board.
If this is what you see: Sad Mac icon
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Sad Mac icon
A Sad Mac is a symbol used by older-generation Apple Macintosh computers (hardware using the Old World ROM), sta...
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Then it would be helpful to know what the two numbers are under the sad Mac.
The symbol for no system folder (i.e. no disk with a system file) is this (see Figure 1):
How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets
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How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets
Gabriel Torres
Did you buy an old Macintosh computer, but it didn’t come with programs and the operating system disks? In this ...
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If you are not handy with a soldering iron, you may be able to find someone local, or certainly within a reasonable distance who can replace the electrolytic capacitors and any other damaged components.
This image shows some deposits around the capacitors on the digital board:
http://crasno.ca/articles/img/MacIIciBadCaps.jpg
This image shows the rear of the Macintosh Plus
http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintoshp lus/msnap2.jpg
If you zoom into the image, you can see in the left hand column Model Number M0001A which identifies the Plus.
This image shows a Macintosh 512k:
http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintosh5 12k/macintosh512K_msnap2.jpg
Over towards the power switch, above the characters 512K is the Model Number M0001W
This image shows a Macintosh 128k:
https://www.filfre.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/AwgXEL5dnY bIVWuo.medium.jpg
Again, towards the power switch, the Model Number is given as M0001
This is important for the following reason. Some folks chose to upgrade their original Macs by sending it back to Apple. Apple removed the original logic board, installed a new logic board and, as some external connections may have been different from the original, they installed a new back to reflect the actual logic board inside.
This means that some original 128k and 512k Macs have Plus logic boards and Plus backs while the front of the casing still looks like a 128k or a 512k. The front casing should also have a SERIAL NUMBER label beside the brightness control, you will have to tip the computer carefully onto it's back to see the label and it likely refers to the original build, not the upgraded version.
If you have a 128K, 512K or Plus, there should be a battery compartment above the power switch. The compartment is a little larger than a AA battery. Hopefully there is no battery in there, or, if there is a battery, hopefully it hasn't leaked.
I'm still leaning towards some leaky electrolyte on the digital board. It can bridge circuit connections and cause spurious short circuits.
Hope this helps you to determine the model and diagnose the fault.
Keith
On Sunday, 27 January 2019, 11:25:21 GMT, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, folks,
I have an early Mac, it has the square RJ11 keyboard connector, DB mouse
connector and a single floppy drive.
It boots to the screen, but displays the "sad mac" icon, as I do not
have a startup disk.
I understand that this is a 400 k, single-sided disk.
I do have another Mac, but it's an SE30 with the double-sided
higher-capacity drives.
So, (i) can I get a suitable disk from you or one of your members, or
(ii) is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30 (I have plenty
of spare disks).
I do have a complete set of setup disks for System 6 and System 7, but I
understand that these will also have the incompatible high-capacity format.
Thanks in advance,
Ian Batty, Secretary, Historical Radio Society of Australia,
79 Rosebud Avenue,
Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
mob' 0402 736 527
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380780 is a reply to message #380719] |
Wed, 06 February 2019 14:16 |
Jerri Kohl
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2018
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Keith,
Have you seen or heard of electrolytic capacitors on pre-SE/30 compact Macs
leaking? These would all be through-hole capacitors, which hold up quite
well compared to SMD ones. Apple didn't switch to SMD caps on compact Macs
until the SE/30. The general consensus on earlier compact Macs is to leave
the caps alone unless there is a (rare) problem (e.g smell a fishy smell).
Of course, they can and will die eventually, and leak their fluid. It's
just not common.
*Much* more common is the battery leaking, and you noted that problem.
That's my vote. Or if it's a Plus or has any kind of internal upgrade, the
SIMMs or upgrade board may be loose.
Best,
Jerri
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 4:12 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <
vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Hi Ian,
>
> I'm with Jerri Kohl on this.
>
> A SAD MAC indicates an issue with the hardware. That means it could be
> missing or faulty RAM, leaked capacitors or some other faulty component.
> That is always down to the digital board (logic board, motherboard).
>
> The fact that it powers on does not exclude the analog board where the
> power supply and video circuits are found. Some of the power circuits may
> be out of tolerance (age related and a result of temperatures and old
> components) and as such they may not be feeding the correct voltages back
> to the digital board.
>
> If this is what you see:
> Sad Mac icon <http://apple.wikia.com/wiki/Sad_Mac_icon>
>
> Sad Mac icon
>
> A Sad Mac is a symbol used by older-generation Apple Macintosh computers
> (hardware using the Old World ROM), sta...
> <http://apple.wikia.com/wiki/Sad_Mac_icon>
>
> Then it would be helpful to know what the two numbers are under the sad
> Mac.
>
> The symbol for no system folder (i.e. no disk with a system file) is this
> (see Figure 1):
>
> How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets
> < https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/how-to-generate-floppy-disks -for-old-macintosh-computers/>
>
> How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets
>
> Gabriel Torres
>
> Did you buy an old Macintosh computer, but it didn’t come with programs
> and the operating system disks? In this ...
>
> < https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/how-to-generate-floppy-disks -for-old-macintosh-computers/>
>
> If you are not handy with a soldering iron, you may be able to find
> someone local, or certainly within a reasonable distance who can replace
> the electrolytic capacitors and any other damaged components.
>
> This image shows some deposits around the capacitors on the digital board:
>
> http://crasno.ca/articles/img/MacIIciBadCaps.jpg
>
> This image shows the rear of the Macintosh Plus
>
> http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintoshp lus/msnap2.jpg
>
> If you zoom into the image, you can see in the left hand column Model
> Number M0001A which identifies the Plus.
>
> This image shows a Macintosh 512k:
>
>
> http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintosh5 12k/macintosh512K_msnap2.jpg
>
> Over towards the power switch, above the characters 512K is the Model
> Number M0001W
>
> This image shows a Macintosh 128k:
>
>
> https://www.filfre.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/AwgXEL5dnY bIVWuo.medium.jpg
>
> Again, towards the power switch, the Model Number is given as M0001
>
> This is important for the following reason. Some folks chose to upgrade
> their original Macs by sending it back to Apple. Apple removed the original
> logic board, installed a new logic board and, as some external connections
> may have been different from the original, they installed a new back to
> reflect the actual logic board inside.
>
> This means that some original 128k and 512k Macs have Plus logic boards
> and Plus backs while the front of the casing still looks like a 128k or a
> 512k. The front casing should also have a SERIAL NUMBER label beside the
> brightness control, you will have to tip the computer carefully onto it's
> back to see the label and it likely refers to the original build, not the
> upgraded version.
>
> If you have a 128K, 512K or Plus, there should be a battery compartment
> above the power switch. The compartment is a little larger than a AA
> battery. Hopefully there is no battery in there, or, if there is a battery,
> hopefully it hasn't leaked.
>
> I'm still leaning towards some leaky electrolyte on the digital board. It
> can bridge circuit connections and cause spurious short circuits.
>
> Hope this helps you to determine the model and diagnose the fault.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 27 January 2019, 11:25:21 GMT, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, folks,
>
> I have an early Mac, it has the square RJ11 keyboard connector, DB mouse
> connector and a single floppy drive.
>
> It boots to the screen, but displays the "sad mac" icon, as I do not
> have a startup disk.
>
> I understand that this is a 400 k, single-sided disk.
>
> I do have another Mac, but it's an SE30 with the double-sided
> higher-capacity drives.
>
> So, (i) can I get a suitable disk from you or one of your members, or
> (ii) is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30 (I have plenty
> of spare disks).
>
> I do have a complete set of setup disks for System 6 and System 7, but I
> understand that these will also have the incompatible high-capacity format.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ian Batty, Secretary, Historical Radio Society of Australia,
>
> 79 Rosebud Avenue,
>
> Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
>
> mob' 0402 736 527
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
> --
> --
> -----
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
> group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380786 is a reply to message #380780] |
Wed, 06 February 2019 16:43 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Jerri,
I have repaired two Plus Macs and both had leaked electrolyte on the analog board. As a result, voltages were out of tolerance for the rest of the computer. One also had a problem with an X2 cap exploding and white smoke followed. That was a little exciting and scary at the time.
IIRC, there are only a few axial caps on the digital board, they should be fine as you mentioned but if the voltages are out of tolerance, due to failed caps on the analog board, it will have a knock on effect on the digital board. I once followed Pina's book to try and adjust R56 on the Plus analog board to 5V (without success) before I looked for dry joints and eventually found the electrolyte. Once the caps were replaced, the Plus booted as normal and flashed the floppy icon with the question mark. I did have to readjust R56 down to 5V.
I see that I wrote 'missing or faulty RAM' but I take your point that incorrectly seated RAM can also cause problems. As will ROM chips that need to be reseated. I'm not sure if I am getting all of the emails from the group as some do, on occasion, end up in my spam folder. I haven't seen any other posts from Ian as to the characters under the sad Mac icon.
The early Compacts did not have an internal fan and heat is a big problem if the Mac is situated near a heat source or a window where sunlight would exacerbate the problem of heat on the electrolytic caps..
I've also had issues with some later Classics with nicotine and lint fouling. That required extreme cleaning in a dishwasher.
Ian hasn't mentioned if he has removed the back of the Mac. There could be a whole host of other problems inside that we cannot predict. If there is any evidence of corrosion on the connectors, the Mac may have been sitting in water or a damp environment and this may have affected the digital board as well. We can but guess at solutions until more information is available.
I hope Ian posts soon so we can assist him in narrowing down the problem,
Cheers,
Keith
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019, 19:16:38 GMT, Jerri Kohl <jerrikohl@gmail.com> wrote:
Keith,
Have you seen or heard of electrolytic capacitors on pre-SE/30 compact Macs leaking? These would all be through-hole capacitors, which hold up quite well compared to SMD ones. Apple didn't switch to SMD caps on compact Macs until the SE/30. The general consensus on earlier compact Macs is to leave the caps alone unless there is a (rare) problem (e.g smell a fishy smell). Of course, they can and will die eventually, and leak their fluid. It's just not common.
*Much* more common is the battery leaking, and you noted that problem. That's my vote. Or if it's a Plus or has any kind of internal upgrade, the SIMMs or upgrade board may be loose.
Best,Jerri
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 4:12 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hi Ian,
I'm with Jerri Kohl on this.
A SAD MAC indicates an issue with the hardware. That means it could be missing or faulty RAM, leaked capacitors or some other faulty component. That is always down to the digital board (logic board, motherboard).
The fact that it powers on does not exclude the analog board where the power supply and video circuits are found. Some of the power circuits may be out of tolerance (age related and a result of temperatures and old components) and as such they may not be feeding the correct voltages back to the digital board.
If this is what you see: Sad Mac icon
|
|
|
| | |
|
|
|
| |
Sad Mac icon
A Sad Mac is a symbol used by older-generation Apple Macintosh computers (hardware using the Old World ROM), sta...
|
|
|
Then it would be helpful to know what the two numbers are under the sad Mac.
The symbol for no system folder (i.e. no disk with a system file) is this (see Figure 1):
How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets
|
|
|
| | |
|
|
|
| |
How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets
Gabriel Torres
Did you buy an old Macintosh computer, but it didn’t come with programs and the operating system disks? In this ...
|
|
|
If you are not handy with a soldering iron, you may be able to find someone local, or certainly within a reasonable distance who can replace the electrolytic capacitors and any other damaged components.
This image shows some deposits around the capacitors on the digital board:
http://crasno.ca/articles/img/MacIIciBadCaps.jpg
This image shows the rear of the Macintosh Plus
http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintoshp lus/msnap2.jpg
If you zoom into the image, you can see in the left hand column Model Number M0001A which identifies the Plus.
This image shows a Macintosh 512k:
http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintosh5 12k/macintosh512K_msnap2.jpg
Over towards the power switch, above the characters 512K is the Model Number M0001W
This image shows a Macintosh 128k:
https://www.filfre.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/AwgXEL5dnY bIVWuo.medium.jpg
Again, towards the power switch, the Model Number is given as M0001
This is important for the following reason. Some folks chose to upgrade their original Macs by sending it back to Apple. Apple removed the original logic board, installed a new logic board and, as some external connections may have been different from the original, they installed a new back to reflect the actual logic board inside.
This means that some original 128k and 512k Macs have Plus logic boards and Plus backs while the front of the casing still looks like a 128k or a 512k. The front casing should also have a SERIAL NUMBER label beside the brightness control, you will have to tip the computer carefully onto it's back to see the label and it likely refers to the original build, not the upgraded version.
If you have a 128K, 512K or Plus, there should be a battery compartment above the power switch. The compartment is a little larger than a AA battery. Hopefully there is no battery in there, or, if there is a battery, hopefully it hasn't leaked.
I'm still leaning towards some leaky electrolyte on the digital board. It can bridge circuit connections and cause spurious short circuits.
Hope this helps you to determine the model and diagnose the fault.
Keith
On Sunday, 27 January 2019, 11:25:21 GMT, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, folks,
I have an early Mac, it has the square RJ11 keyboard connector, DB mouse
connector and a single floppy drive.
It boots to the screen, but displays the "sad mac" icon, as I do not
have a startup disk.
I understand that this is a 400 k, single-sided disk.
I do have another Mac, but it's an SE30 with the double-sided
higher-capacity drives.
So, (i) can I get a suitable disk from you or one of your members, or
(ii) is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30 (I have plenty
of spare disks).
I do have a complete set of setup disks for System 6 and System 7, but I
understand that these will also have the incompatible high-capacity format.
Thanks in advance,
Ian Batty, Secretary, Historical Radio Society of Australia,
79 Rosebud Avenue,
Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
mob' 0402 736 527
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380787 is a reply to message #380786] |
Wed, 06 February 2019 17:09 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Ian,
You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an image of what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:
http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg
And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:
http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif
Later models look like this,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintos h_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg
They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand side of the casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing appears to be jammed into this area or broken and pushed in.
It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been pressed in and this will keep the computer in a repetitive null loop where it is unable to complete the start up process.
Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please? Where you got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it working when you bought it. If there is nothing evident on the outside, then the next step would be to remove the rear case to investigate further on the inside. You'll need a long (8 inch minimum length for the shaft) T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder won't get in far enough to engage with the screws. There are very long Torx drivers that were originally made for Macs but a regular T15 from Home Depot, B&Q (U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be fine.
Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128, 512, Plus) or four screws (later models).
cheers,
Keith
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380788 is a reply to message #380787] |
Wed, 06 February 2019 17:17 |
ianbatty311@gmail.com
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Hi, folks,
I got the Mac at a recycling shop with keyboard, mouse and nothing else.
I have formatted a single-sided disk on one of my SE30s, but do not know
how to put the system files onto it.
I'm assuming that this is now a 400 kilobyte (400 k) disk
The reset switch at the lower rear left of the case has been installed,
and it works just fine, i.e., it is not jammed on.
If I can get the system files onto my 400 k disk I will be able to
report whether the system is able to boot.
Any ideas?
Cheers,
Ian.
On 07-Feb-19 9:09 AM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
> Hi Ian,
>
> You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an
> image of what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:
>
> http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg
>
> And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:
>
> http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif
>
> Later models look like this,
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintos h_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg
>
> They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand side
> of the casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing appears to be
> jammed into this area or broken and pushed in.
>
> It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been pressed
> in and this will keep the computer in a repetitive null loop where it
> is unable to complete the start up process.
>
> Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please? Where
> you got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it working when
> you bought it. If there is nothing evident on the outside, then the
> next step would be to remove the rear case to investigate further on
> the inside. You'll need a long (8 inch minimum length for the shaft)
> T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder
> won't get in far enough to engage with the screws. There are very long
> Torx drivers that were originally made for Macs but a regular T15 from
> Home Depot, B&Q (U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be fine.
>
> Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128, 512,
> Plus) or four screws (later models).
>
> cheers,
>
> Keith
>
> --
> --
> -----
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
> group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and
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Best regards,
Ian Batty,
79 Rosebud Avenue,
Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
Mob' 0402 736 527
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380808 is a reply to message #380788] |
Thu, 07 February 2019 03:01 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Ian,
In order to boot, the Mac has to get past that sad Mac icon.
When you switch on and see a floppy disk icon with a question mark, that is when you should be able to boot.
Can you provide any further information about the Mac please? Specifically which model is it?
Thanks,
Keith.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 10:17 pm, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, folks,
I got the Mac at a recycling shop with keyboard, mouse and nothing else.
I have formatted a single-sided disk on one of my SE30s, but do not know how to put the system files onto it.
I'm assuming that this is now a 400 kilobyte (400 k) disk
The reset switch at the lower rear left of the case has been installed, and it works just fine, i.e., it is not jammed on.
If I can get the system files onto my 400 k disk I will be able to report whether the system is able to boot.
Any ideas?
Cheers,
Ian.
On 07-Feb-19 9:09 AM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
Hi Ian,
You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an image of what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:
http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg
And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:
http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif
Later models look like this,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintos h_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg
They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand side of the casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing appears to be jammed into this area or broken and pushed in.
It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been pressed in and this will keep the computer in a repetitive null loop where it is unable to complete the start up process.
Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please? Where you got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it working when you bought it. If there is nothing evident on the outside, then the next step would be to remove the rear case to investigate further on the inside. You'll need a long (8 inch minimum length for the shaft) T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder won't get in far enough to engage with the screws. There are very long Torx drivers that were originally made for Macs but a regular T15 from Home Depot, B&Q (U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be fine.
Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128, 512, Plus) or four screws (later models).
cheers,
Keith
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Best regards,
Ian Batty,
79 Rosebud Avenue,
Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
Mob' 0402 736 527
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380810 is a reply to message #380808] |
Thu, 07 February 2019 05:43 |
ianbatty311@gmail.com
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Hi, Keith,
I'll get onto it tomorrow - cheers, Ian.
On 07-Feb-19 7:01 PM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
> Hi Ian,
>
> In order to boot, the Mac has to get past that sad Mac icon.
>
> When you switch on and see a floppy disk icon with a question mark,
> that is when you should be able to boot.
>
> Can you provide any further information about the Mac please?
> Specifically which model is it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 10:17 pm, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, folks,
>
> I got the Mac at a recycling shop with keyboard, mouse and nothing
> else.
>
> I have formatted a single-sided disk on one of my SE30s, but do
> not know how to put the system files onto it.
>
> I'm assuming that this is now a 400 kilobyte (400 k) disk
>
> The reset switch at the lower rear left of the case has been
> installed, and it works just fine, i.e., it is not jammed on.
>
> If I can get the system files onto my 400 k disk I will be able to
> report whether the system is able to boot.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian.
>
> On 07-Feb-19 9:09 AM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
> Hi Ian,
>
> You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an
> image of what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:
>
> http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg
>
> And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:
>
> http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif
>
> Later models look like this,
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintos h_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg
>
> They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand
> side of the casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing
> appears to be jammed into this area or broken and pushed in.
>
> It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been
> pressed in and this will keep the computer in a repetitive null
> loop where it is unable to complete the start up process.
>
> Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please?
> Where you got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it
> working when you bought it. If there is nothing evident on the
> outside, then the next step would be to remove the rear case to
> investigate further on the inside. You'll need a long (8 inch
> minimum length for the shaft) T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the
> screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder won't get in far enough to
> engage with the screws. There are very long Torx drivers that were
> originally made for Macs but a regular T15 from Home Depot, B&Q
> (U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be fine.
>
> Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128,
> 512, Plus) or four screws (later models).
>
> cheers,
>
> Keith
>
> --
> --
> -----
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage
> Macs group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml
> and our netiquette guide is at
> http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:vintage-macs@googlegroups.com>
> To leave this group, send email to
> vintage-macs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:vintage-macs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
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> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
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> <mailto:vintage-macs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
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>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Ian Batty,
>
> 79 Rosebud Avenue,
>
> Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
>
> Mob' 0402 736 527
>
>
> < http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_ source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=email client>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
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>
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> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml
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>
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Ian Batty,
79 Rosebud Avenue,
Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
Mob' 0402 736 527
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380872 is a reply to message #380808] |
Sat, 09 February 2019 04:30 |
ianbatty311@gmail.com
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
OK, went back to the Mac,
Power on,
Screen comes up, after a short time I get a floppy disk icon with a
question mark in it,
>I reckon this means the POST and ROM-hosted diagnostics are complete,
and I need to insert a system disk containing the disk-based Operating
System (OS) files/components
Insert a blank 400 k disk,
System reads drive,
Screen displays a floppy disk icon with an x in the middle and ejects
the disk.
> I reckon this means that the disk has been read, but the disk-based
OS components have not been detected/read into memory (makes sense, it
*is* a blank disk).
So.....
If all the above is correct, what I need is the disk-based OS
files/components on the blank disk.
Soooo.... as I've asked before, how do I mount the disk-based components
onto the disk?
Cheers,
Ian.
On 07-Feb-19 7:01 PM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
> Hi Ian,
>
> In order to boot, the Mac has to get past that sad Mac icon.
>
> When you switch on and see a floppy disk icon with a question mark,
> that is when you should be able to boot.
>
> Can you provide any further information about the Mac please?
> Specifically which model is it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 10:17 pm, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, folks,
>
> I got the Mac at a recycling shop with keyboard, mouse and nothing
> else.
>
> I have formatted a single-sided disk on one of my SE30s, but do
> not know how to put the system files onto it.
>
> I'm assuming that this is now a 400 kilobyte (400 k) disk
>
> The reset switch at the lower rear left of the case has been
> installed, and it works just fine, i.e., it is not jammed on.
>
> If I can get the system files onto my 400 k disk I will be able to
> report whether the system is able to boot.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian.
>
> On 07-Feb-19 9:09 AM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
> Hi Ian,
>
> You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an
> image of what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:
>
> http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg
>
> And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:
>
> http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif
>
> Later models look like this,
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintos h_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg
>
> They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand
> side of the casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing
> appears to be jammed into this area or broken and pushed in.
>
> It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been
> pressed in and this will keep the computer in a repetitive null
> loop where it is unable to complete the start up process.
>
> Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please?
> Where you got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it
> working when you bought it. If there is nothing evident on the
> outside, then the next step would be to remove the rear case to
> investigate further on the inside. You'll need a long (8 inch
> minimum length for the shaft) T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the
> screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder won't get in far enough to
> engage with the screws. There are very long Torx drivers that were
> originally made for Macs but a regular T15 from Home Depot, B&Q
> (U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be fine.
>
> Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128,
> 512, Plus) or four screws (later models).
>
> cheers,
>
> Keith
>
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> --
> Best regards,
>
> Ian Batty,
>
> 79 Rosebud Avenue,
>
> Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
>
> Mob' 0402 736 527
>
>
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Best regards,
Ian Batty,
79 Rosebud Avenue,
Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
Mob' 0402 736 527
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380873 is a reply to message #380872] |
Sat, 09 February 2019 04:44 |
Jonathan Morton
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
> On 9 Feb, 2019, at 11:30 am, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Screen comes up, after a short time I get a floppy disk icon with a question mark in it,
>
> I reckon this means the POST and ROM-hosted diagnostics are complete, and I need to insert a system disk containing the disk-based Operating System (OS) files/components
>
> Insert a blank 400 k disk,
>
> System reads drive,
>
> Screen displays a floppy disk icon with an x in the middle and ejects the disk.
These are good signs. But we still haven't really established which model of Mac you have, and at this level it matters a great deal:
The earliest Macs (eg. 512K) support only a 400K disk format and require very early System versions, up to 4.2.
Slightly later models (eg. Plus) support the 800K disk format and System 6.0.x.
That's why we've been asking you to look at the model number on the back panel, which is more likely to correspond to the real hardware inside than the artwork on the front panel.
- Jonathan Morton
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| Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk. [message #380997 is a reply to message #380872] |
Sat, 09 February 2019 10:19 |
Brian Rein
Messages: 1
Registered: February 2019
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
> On Feb 9, 2019, at 3:30 AM, Ian <ianbatty311@gmail.com> wrote:
> . . .
>
> Soooo.... as I've asked before, how do I mount the disk-based components onto the disk?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian.
Searching “Bing” with "how to install mac os onto 400k floppy” reveals:
"Making a 400k MFS Boot Floppy on Any Beige Mac” <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/MFSbootfloppy.html>
It leads to “Working with Macintosh Floppy Disks in the New Millennium” <https://siber-sonic.com/mac/newmillfloppy.html>
Regards,
Brian
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