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Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378020] Tue, 11 December 2018 11:09 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Kruth

Howdy!

A few years ago I bought an Apple IIgs ROM 3 from ebay but I didn't do my research and realized I was going to have to do some work to hook it up to a modern display. So unfortunately it sat in the back of a closet for awhile waiting for me to find the time to either find an old display or hack something together.

You can imagine how excited I was to learn about the VidHD (not just for my IIgs, but also for my IIe) and I just purchased one - problem solved! But having spent nearly all my time playing with older Apple IIs, I'm a little out of my depth with the IIgs. I was hoping for some suggestions on configuration.

I already plan to purchase a CFFA3000 which will work with both the IIgs and the IIe - but I'm wondering if this is the best option? Should I consider other options for storage?

When it comes to memory, I'd like to max out the IIgs, but it seems like there are a lot of options out there (and they're all sold out!). What should I be looking for? Will I have trouble only having 1.25MB of RAM for a bit?

I've considered an Uthernet card (again, would work in both machines) but I've also thought about building something like the WiFi232, which seems like it would be pretty easy to do with a Raspberry Pi - mostly I just would like to do BBS-like stuff (telnet etc) so I'm not sure if I really need the Uthernet, or if it would even be appropriate - I would love some advice here.

My main reason for getting the IIgs up and running is to experiment. I would love to learn more about programming the 65816 and I always wanted a IIgs as kid. Any other suggestions on cards/enhancements? Anything that I've missed?

Thanks in advance!

- James
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378051 is a reply to message #378020] Tue, 11 December 2018 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Polymorph is currently offline  Polymorph
Messages: 206
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:09:59 AM UTC+11, James Kruth wrote:
> Howdy!
>
> A few years ago I bought an Apple IIgs ROM 3 from ebay but I didn't do my research and realized I was going to have to do some work to hook it up to a modern display. So unfortunately it sat in the back of a closet for awhile waiting for me to find the time to either find an old display or hack something together.
>
> You can imagine how excited I was to learn about the VidHD (not just for my IIgs, but also for my IIe) and I just purchased one - problem solved! But having spent nearly all my time playing with older Apple IIs, I'm a little out of my depth with the IIgs. I was hoping for some suggestions on configuration.
>
> I already plan to purchase a CFFA3000 which will work with both the IIgs and the IIe - but I'm wondering if this is the best option? Should I consider other options for storage?
>
> When it comes to memory, I'd like to max out the IIgs, but it seems like there are a lot of options out there (and they're all sold out!). What should I be looking for? Will I have trouble only having 1.25MB of RAM for a bit?
>
> I've considered an Uthernet card (again, would work in both machines) but I've also thought about building something like the WiFi232, which seems like it would be pretty easy to do with a Raspberry Pi - mostly I just would like to do BBS-like stuff (telnet etc) so I'm not sure if I really need the Uthernet, or if it would even be appropriate - I would love some advice here.
>
> My main reason for getting the IIgs up and running is to experiment. I would love to learn more about programming the 65816 and I always wanted a IIgs as kid. Any other suggestions on cards/enhancements? Anything that I've missed?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> - James

To answer your questions:
* the CFFA3000 is by far the most flexible option for the IIgs (and 8 bit Apples) even if there are some options out that are faster (the CFFA3000 is by no means slow however)
* GGLabs is still offering 4Mb and 8Mb options (I recommend 4Mb as a miniumum these days) -
https://gglabs.us/node/1935
https://gglabs.us/node/2045
* Uthernet cards really shine in the IIgs because its gives you the option of using the Marinetti TCP/IP stack allowing the use of 16 bit FTP, email, news group, IRC, telnet, (limited) web browsing, etc. I don't have any experience with the WiFi232 cards, but I don't imagine that you could use them in the same way (please someone let me know if I am wrong here)

Other options you might consider:
* SCART - you can get an RGB --> SCART adapter for the IIgs and use a relatively cheap SCART to HDMI adapter (many people use this combination for a variety of machines - Amiga, Atart ST, IIgs, etc...)
* a stereo/quadrophonic/octophonic(!) sound card which basically demultiplex's the sound produced by the IIgs into multiple channels to let the IIgs sound as good as it can (and it sounds *great* BTW)
* keep an eye on A2 Heaven's web site for the upcoming IIgs accelerator card or ReactiveMicro's Transwarp GS clone, as the IIgs definitely benefits from having an accelerator when running 16 bit System Software and native mode apps

Hope this helps you get started.

Cheers,
Mike
http://apple2.sytes.net/
(BTW: The IIgs is my favourite vintage computer)
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378052 is a reply to message #378051] Tue, 11 December 2018 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: frank_o_rama

I'd be curious to know what's faster than the CFFA3000 (battery backed RAM maybe?).
f


On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 3:21:38 PM UTC-8, Polymorph wrote:

> * the CFFA3000 is by far the most flexible option for the IIgs (and 8 bit Apples) even if there are some options out that are faster
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378053 is a reply to message #378052] Tue, 11 December 2018 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Stewart is currently offline  Wayne Stewart
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Registered: September 2012
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Senior Member
A number of cards are faster than a CFFA 300 but a RAMcard isn’t necessarily that fast. A ramfast SCSI card is noticeably faster than a CFFA 3000.
Years ago I thought I’d compare an AE ramfactor and a ramfast. I set up a couple of IIgs and loaded the same software into a ramfast and ramfactor. Turned them on at the same time and the ramfast easily won. That was with a mechanical hard drive. Now with a SSD I’d expect even better results
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378066 is a reply to message #378052] Tue, 11 December 2018 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: tim1724

On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 4:24:22 PM UTC-8, frank_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I'd be curious to know what's faster than the CFFA3000 (battery backed RAM maybe?).

The fastest cards are going to be those that support DMA, such as the Ramfast SCSI cards or the Apple II High Speed SCSI card. Either one paired with a SCSI2SD is about as fast as you can get.
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378074 is a reply to message #378051] Wed, 12 December 2018 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Kruth

Mike,

On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 6:21:38 PM UTC-5, Polymorph wrote:
> To answer your questions:
> * the CFFA3000 is by far the most flexible option for the IIgs (and 8 bit Apples) even if there are some options out that are faster (the CFFA3000 is by no means slow however)

I appreciate the confirmation there. My main concern is buying stuff that'll work in both machines, and speed isn't a huge concern at the moment. Maybe in the future I'll look at some of the faster options.

> * GGLabs is still offering 4Mb and 8Mb options (I recommend 4Mb as a miniumum these days) -
> https://gglabs.us/node/1935
> https://gglabs.us/node/2045

Thanks for pointing this out! I'm going to see about ordering the 8Mb option soon.

> * Uthernet cards really shine in the IIgs because its gives you the option of using the Marinetti TCP/IP stack allowing the use of 16 bit FTP, email, news group, IRC, telnet, (limited) web browsing, etc. I don't have any experience with the WiFi232 cards, but I don't imagine that you could use them in the same way (please someone let me know if I am wrong here)

I *just* ordered one. I'd been on the fence for awhile. I'm excited to give it a try in my IIe as well!

> Other options you might consider:
> * SCART - you can get an RGB --> SCART adapter for the IIgs and use a relatively cheap SCART to HDMI adapter (many people use this combination for a variety of machines - Amiga, Atart ST, IIgs, etc...)

I originally had thought about this, but I figure I'll just wait for the VidHD to show up - I've waited this long already. :)

> * a stereo/quadrophonic/octophonic(!) sound card which basically demultiplex's the sound produced by the IIgs into multiple channels to let the IIgs sound as good as it can (and it sounds *great* BTW)

This sounds really fascinating. I'm *very* interested in making music with the IIgs. I've done some chiptune stuff in the past and have wondered what I can make the IIgs do. Do you have any cards you particularly like?

> * keep an eye on A2 Heaven's web site for the upcoming IIgs accelerator card or ReactiveMicro's Transwarp GS clone, as the IIgs definitely benefits from having an accelerator when running 16 bit System Software and native mode apps

I've signed up for their respective mailing lists. :)

Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it!

- James
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378084 is a reply to message #378074] Wed, 12 December 2018 03:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spectrumdaddy is currently offline  spectrumdaddy
Messages: 191
Registered: November 2012
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Senior Member
James Kruth <artlogic@gmail.com> wrote:

>> * Uthernet cards really shine in the IIgs because its gives you the
>> option of using the Marinetti TCP/IP stack allowing the use of 16
>> bit FTP, email, news group, IRC, telnet, (limited) web browsing,
>> etc. I don't have any experience with the WiFi232 cards, but I
>> don't imagine that you could use them in the same way (please
>> someone let me know if I am wrong here)
>
> I *just* ordered one. I'd been on the fence for awhile. I'm excited to give
> it a try in my IIe as well!

If you get yourself an Uthernet card, and before you get round to
writing your own software, you might like to see how the card behaves on
the Internet with some of my FreeWare programs. You will find useful
apps like general communications, file transfer protocols, and Telnet
with Spectrum, FTP with SAFE2, Usenet with SNAP, and Mail with SAM2.

There is also a link to SIS for web browsing, but be aware that SIS is
now quite old, and the web has moved on, so it is more of interest than
of use these days.

As well as comms programs, there is a host of IIgs utiities there as
well:

http://speccie.uk

Cheers - Ewen
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378102 is a reply to message #378084] Wed, 12 December 2018 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
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Senior Member
As already mentioned, the cffa is not the fastest card bit the most flexible one.

See benchmarks @ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiZOz6GbGMJudGV oR0hiWDRXMlZfSnRtZUVjWXMwNWc#gid=0

Antoine
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378103 is a reply to message #378074] Wed, 12 December 2018 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Polymorph is currently offline  Polymorph
Messages: 206
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 4:13:19 PM UTC+11, James Kruth wrote:

<snip>

>> * a stereo/quadrophonic/octophonic(!) sound card which basically demultiplex's the sound produced by the IIgs into multiple channels to let the IIgs sound as good as it can (and it sounds *great* BTW)
>
> This sounds really fascinating. I'm *very* interested in making music with the IIgs. I've done some chiptune stuff in the past and have wondered what I can make the IIgs do. Do you have any cards you particularly like?
>

The two premier sound cards for the IIgs at the moment are the 2Soniq and 4Soniq cards made by Manilla Gear and sold by ReactiveMicro:
https://reactivemicro.glopal.com/en-AU/p-720/2soniq-stereo-s ound-card-from-manila-gear.html
https://reactivemicro.glopal.com/en-AU/p-711/4soniq-4-channe l-sound-card-from-manila-gear.html

To get 8 channel sound you need 2 4soniq cards (they daisy chain together).

If you are handy with a soldering iron (even though I wasn't at the time I did this!) and enjoy a challenge, the other option is to build your own stereo card like I did back in 2006 not long after getting my first IIgs:
http://apple2.sytes.net/hardware/TDX_Stereo_Card

Hope this helps,
Mike
http://apple2.sytes.net/
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378111 is a reply to message #378102] Wed, 12 December 2018 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hugh Hood is currently offline  Hugh Hood
Messages: 678
Registered: November 2012
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Senior Member
Also known as 'The RamFAST Appreciation Page'! ;-)




Hugh Hood



On 12/12/2018 3:06 PM, Antoine Vignau wrote:
>
> See benchmarks @ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiZOz6GbGMJudGV oR0hiWDRXMlZfSnRtZUVjWXMwNWc#gid=0
>
> Antoine
>
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378147 is a reply to message #378051] Thu, 13 December 2018 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
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Senior Member
In article <83f8b46e-0e11-4b59-a09e-dc41dd4706ab@googlegroups.com>,
Polymorph <mike.a.stephens@gmail.com> wrote:
> * SCART - you can get an RGB --> SCART adapter for the IIgs and use a
> relatively cheap SCART to HDMI adapter (many people use this combination
> for a variety of machines - Amiga, Atart ST, IIgs, etc...)

Given the slightly non-standard video timing, this is likely to be
hit-or-miss. I've built an RGB-to-component adapter. It works with maybe
half of the TVs I've tested, and it doesn't work with the component-to-HDMI
converter I purchased. I have no experience with SCART (it's pretty much
nonexistent here), but since it's starting with the same video source, I'd
expect it wouldn't work any better.

I tried knocking together an adapter that would also provide composite and
S-video output in addition to component, thinking that S-video would be
somewhat more likely to work while still delivering most of the original
picture quality. So far, I've not gotten it to work yet. At this point, I
have a VidHD on order, which should clear up monitor connectivity issues for
the foreseeable future.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378154 is a reply to message #378147] Thu, 13 December 2018 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Polymorph is currently offline  Polymorph
Messages: 206
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 4:37:01 AM UTC+11, Scott Alfter wrote:
> In article <83f8b46e-0e11-4b59-a09e-dc41dd4706ab@googlegroups.com>,
> Polymorph wrote:
>> * SCART - you can get an RGB --> SCART adapter for the IIgs and use a
>> relatively cheap SCART to HDMI adapter (many people use this combination
>> for a variety of machines - Amiga, Atart ST, IIgs, etc...)
>
> Given the slightly non-standard video timing, this is likely to be
> hit-or-miss. I've built an RGB-to-component adapter. It works with maybe
> half of the TVs I've tested, and it doesn't work with the component-to-HDMI
> converter I purchased. I have no experience with SCART (it's pretty much
> nonexistent here), but since it's starting with the same video source, I'd
> expect it wouldn't work any better.
>
> I tried knocking together an adapter that would also provide composite and
> S-video output in addition to component, thinking that S-video would be
> somewhat more likely to work while still delivering most of the original
> picture quality. So far, I've not gotten it to work yet. At this point, I
> have a VidHD on order, which should clear up monitor connectivity issues for
> the foreseeable future.
>
> _/_
> / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
> (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
> \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Yeah, I've got a VidHD on order too. I also own Nishida Radio's ROM 3 DVI adapter which is also brilliant. It's a shame health issues stopped this product from being sold more.

I just know quite a few people do use the SCART cable with a SCART-->HDMI adapter with their IIgs machines and the results I have seen through photo's look very good (I've not actually done it myself though). It is also a method that can be shared among multiple vintage computers too which might be appealing to some - I myself am contemplating going the SCART route for Amiga, Atari ST, and IIgs (I have a SCART cable for the IIgs from years ago when I had a SCART monitor).

Cheers,
Mike
http://apple2.sytes.net/
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378161 is a reply to message #378154] Thu, 13 December 2018 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steven Hirsch is currently offline  Steven Hirsch
Messages: 798
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On 12/13/18 4:18 PM, Polymorph wrote:

> I also own Nishida Radio's ROM 3 DVI adapter which is also brilliant. It's
> a shame health issues stopped this product from being sold more.
I didn't realize there was a DVI version of the Nishida GS board. Mine is VGA
only.
Re: Apple IIgs Configuration Suggestions [message #378188 is a reply to message #378161] Fri, 14 December 2018 12:11 Go to previous message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <N76dnediBIcBn47BnZ2dnUU7-W_NnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/13/18 4:18 PM, Polymorph wrote:
>
>> I also own Nishida Radio's ROM 3 DVI adapter which is also brilliant. It's
>> a shame health issues stopped this product from being sold more.
> I didn't realize there was a DVI version of the Nishida GS board. Mine is VGA
> only.

I had seen that. Both of my IIGSes are ROM 01s, though, so it wasn't an
option for me.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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