| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378487 is a reply to message #378287] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 19:48   |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 7:17:22 PM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>
>> In some "modern" countries in Europe you cannot buy incandescent light
>> bulbs anymore.
>
> Including lights for ovens?
My oven and refrigerator use something called an "appliance bulb"
(40W). Since those lamps run so infrequently, they last an extremely
long time. I can't remember when I had to replace one of them.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378488 is a reply to message #378421] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:11 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 9:40:53 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>> On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 6:16:26 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>>> Yes, in my area the kids make a big deal about replacing incandescent
>>>> light bulbs with FLD or LED. Big deal--the energy savings are trivial.
>>>
>>> 75% less energy usage for equivalent lumens is trivial?
>>
>> First, the equivalent lumens isn't true--they skimp on that.
>
> Evidence?
Look on the box of a _standard_ 100W lamp and compare the lumens
to an FLD. FLD's are lower. (I don't know about LEDs). Indeed,
I've had to replace a former 60W lamp with a 100W FLD to get
usable light.
I know of an old public space lit by large incandescent lamps (maybe
200W bulbs in the fixture). They were replaced with something
modern. It was darker as a result--which I confirmed via my
camera meter. I think it had another rehab and they came up with
something a little brighter.
>> Second, in _home_ use, lighting energy consumption isn't all that
>> significant in the grand scheme of things.
>
> It's not _insignificant_.
In most cases, home _lighting_ isn't all that significant relative
to other energy uses, like HVAC, cooking, etc. Yes, I know some
large single house owners who have bright exterior lights--they
would save money and energy by replacing those multiple 150W flood
lights with FLDs or LEDs. But normal home use--some savings, but
not all that much in the grand scheme of things. (Things like
the kitchen have long been fluorescent.)
Now, in offices, where the lights burn a much longer time and there
are many more of them, stand to save money. That's why years ago
many office buildings converted hallways and stairs to fluorescents.
Heck, in my building, they converted in an inefficient 150W "high hat"
fixture to a brighter 40 W circle tube.
>>>> A big problem with alternative energy sources, like wind and solar,
>>>> is that they simply don't have enough capacity to meet full demand.
>>>
>>> Most rational thinkers believe that a mix of generation sources
>>> are required for very obvious reasons. Nobody with 4 brain
>>> cells believes that solar and wind alone can supplant all existing
>>> generation; however, they can supplant a very significant fraction
>>> of it (Germany is a good example at 38% from renewables, and increasing
>>> significantly each of the last three years).
>>
>> Well, a lot of environmentalists apparently have less than 4 brain
>
> Actually, that's not the case. Various republicans have made that
> claim enought times that it has become a meme. But it's never been
> true.
I believe in conservation and have talked to many people on both
sides of the aisle. Generally, Republicans discredit the whole thing,
claiming it is nothing by liberal claptrap. As mentioned, Republicans
think it is their gawdgiven right to drive a big fat SUV and burn as
much oil as they want.
Unfortunately, on the flip side, many environmentalists are equally
clueless and frustrating to deal with. They have no concept of numbers.
They simply don't understand that if you want to close down a 500MW
power plant, you're gonna need 500MW of dependable consistent power
from another source, and solar and wind ain't gonna cut it. They
also don't get that the power company has invested a heck of a lot
of money into that power plant and naturally doesn't want to throw
out their investment.
They had a self-appointed "river keeper" make a speech, showing up
in her very tiny car. Now, if she can get along in a very tiny
car, great for her, but not everyone, such as a family, can do so.
Yes, a lot of people drove unnecessarily big fat SUVs or pickup
trucks, but expecting a family to squeeze into a VW Beetle isn't
practical either.
I remember a neighbor who was a salesman. He drove around a big
fat Buick. But his trunk was filled with merchandise. Also, since
he basically lived out of his car, it was reasonable for him to be
in something nice all day long, which environmentalists don't get.
(Just as conservatives don't get that maybe a suburban housewife
who drives back and forth to the supermarket might not need such
a big fat Buick.)
>> Modern policy has hit the traditional power companies hard. As a
>> result, they've cut back on maintenance.
>
> Modern republican ideas about business (and demands from wall
> street for profits) have caused them to cut back on maintenance.
>
> Don't blame conservation for idiot fiscal policies at the top.
Environmentalists have fought against legitimate power generation
infrastructure. No good came out of that. They pressured the PUC
to make stupid policies.
For instance, one area homeowners can save a lot of money is through
re-insulation and replacement windows. But that's expensive. What
has environmentalists done to educate homeowners about options on
that? In my area, not a damn thing.
>> Further, the national grid is being used in ways never intended,
>> making it far more vulnerable to massive failure. Given population
>> growth, it needs a lot of expansion and modernization which it isn't
>> getting.
>
> That's hard to argue with, but you address that by fixing it, not
> by discouraging renewable energy sources.
I don't want to discourage renewable energy sources. I just want to
be realistic about them--what they can actually do and what they
actually will cost. In my humble opinion, they still have a long
way to go in development.
>> Power stability is especially tricky since power is hard to store.
>
> Which is why, for example, South Australia just installed a huge Tesla
> battery system on their grid - it's been working wonderfully.
Well, if it is truly working out well and economical, let's bring
it to the US. We certainly need it.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378489 is a reply to message #378430] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:15 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 10:44:09 AM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
>>> Which is why, for example, South Australia just installed a huge Tesla
>>> battery system on their grid - it's been working wonderfully.
>>
>> It supplies power for what, 8 minutes? It's there to cover while a real
>> power station is run up, should there be a lull in the supply from
>> renewables.
>
> All the online articles I find rave about the batteries.
> Australia is buying more.
Eight minutes might be enough time to provide a buffer while
power engineers switch and reroute power if a major source fails.
(I am not an engineer).
Of course, a traditional power plant takes a heck of a lot longer
than eight minutes to bring up. I think the jet turbine units
come up pretty fast, but still may need more time than that.
The turbine units are pretty flexible and we probably should
have a lot more of them all over the place. The problem is that
the power companies don't like that since it represents a waste
of capital on idle capacity, and, they are very fuel-expensive.
Environmentalists hate them. But some power engineers told me
when they have those super hot summer days and consumption is at
a record, those turbines save the day.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378490 is a reply to message #378416] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:22 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 9:10:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Wow, god forbid that you should take an extra 30 seconds to
> consider what you discard (or think about it before purchasing).
Today at lunch in the cafeteria I timed it. My friend required
all of 2 seconds to discard his soda can in the recycling bin
while discarding his other trash in the main bin.
I don't think 2 seconds is much to ask.
By the way, this places sells Arizona Iced Tea, which still comes
in glass. (The soda comes in cans.) Both cans and glass are 100%
recyclable. There is no reason whatsoever why those particular
items shouldn't be recycled. Yet some Republicans disdainfully toss
their bottles and cans in the regular trash out of spite.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378491 is a reply to message #378412] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:26 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 8:57:28 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Democracy requires a certain minimum intelligence among the populace
>> to enable sensible choices to be made. I fear that the median intelligence
>> of the peepul is falling below that level.
>
> Yes, thanks to the Republicans watering down education.
You have no idea what's going on in some places. They have these
old farts who managed to take control of local school boards or
got other reactionaries to take control and they've dumbed down
the curriculum to match _their_ perceptions of history, even science
and math.
Unfortunately, in some cities, the reverse is going on, too. The
revised city school history claimed city schools used to be racially
segregated. I had photographic proof that was a lie and presented it,
and in some cases, I had personal experience it was lie. They didn't
like being shown up like that.
This is what I mean by society going extremist.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378492 is a reply to message #378411] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:26 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 8:56:17 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> I agree that Obama has been the best president since, perhaps,
> FDR. Certainly better than anyone after Nixon.
+1
> McConnell will go down in history as the worst senator ever
> for his total disregard for the good of the country.
+1
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378495 is a reply to message #378302] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:32 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 3:13:03 AM UTC-5, Mike Spencer wrote:
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>
>> Modern policy has hit the traditional power companies hard. As a
>> result, they've cut back on maintenance. Power failures take
>> longer to repair, and they're not as well equipped to deal with
>> big outages. They fail to due to preventive maintenance. For
>> instance, in my area, they used to trim trees back away from their
>> lines every year. Now they only do that every five years. As a
>> result even minor storms result in failures since tree limbs fall
>> on the lines. It takes a long time to repair.
>
> Gee, I hadda check to make sure I hadn't written that. Only here they
> haven't done tree trimming for decades save in occasional small spots.
> Normal Nova Scotia inclement weather now predictably causes scattered
> or wide outages. People who should know the in-house gossip say the
> high tension towers are even more vulnerable, some of which will fail
> spectaclarly in the forseeable future.
>
> But I don't inderstand how "modern policy" has effected that. I see
> it as simply increased short-term profit. The "internal diseconomy"
> of maintenance is externalized as a cost to users. Even with wood
> heat and hand-pumped water, we have to have a gen set to maintain
> freezers and fridge in prolonged outages. More typical rural
> households lose heat, water and cooking as well as refrigeration in an
> outage.
Modern policy separated out generation from distribution. They
also put a lot more focus on the electric rates, which used to
cover all expenses rolled together. We were lucky in our area;
in some areas they new policies were so onerous that power
supply got screwed up.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378496 is a reply to message #378488] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:34 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:11:21 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 9:40:53 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>>> On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 6:16:26 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>> >Yes, in my area the kids make a big deal about replacing incandescent
>>>> >light bulbs with FLD or LED. Big deal--the energy savings are trivial.
>>>>
>>>> 75% less energy usage for equivalent lumens is trivial?
>>>
>>> First, the equivalent lumens isn't true--they skimp on that.
>>
>> Evidence?
>
> Look on the box of a _standard_ 100W lamp and compare the lumens
> to an FLD. FLD's are lower. (I don't know about LEDs). Indeed,
> I've had to replace a former 60W lamp with a 100W FLD to get
> usable light.
>
> I know of an old public space lit by large incandescent lamps (maybe
> 200W bulbs in the fixture). They were replaced with something
> modern. It was darker as a result--which I confirmed via my
> camera meter. I think it had another rehab and they came up with
> something a little brighter.
>
>
>>> Second, in _home_ use, lighting energy consumption isn't all that
>>> significant in the grand scheme of things.
>>
>> It's not _insignificant_.
>
> In most cases, home _lighting_ isn't all that significant relative
> to other energy uses, like HVAC, cooking, etc. Yes, I know some
> large single house owners who have bright exterior lights--they
> would save money and energy by replacing those multiple 150W flood
> lights with FLDs or LEDs. But normal home use--some savings, but
> not all that much in the grand scheme of things. (Things like
> the kitchen have long been fluorescent.)
>
> Now, in offices, where the lights burn a much longer time and there
> are many more of them, stand to save money. That's why years ago
> many office buildings converted hallways and stairs to fluorescents.
> Heck, in my building, they converted in an inefficient 150W "high hat"
> fixture to a brighter 40 W circle tube.
>
>
>>>> >A big problem with alternative energy sources, like wind and solar,
>>>> >is that they simply don't have enough capacity to meet full demand.
>>>>
>>>> Most rational thinkers believe that a mix of generation sources
>>>> are required for very obvious reasons. Nobody with 4 brain
>>>> cells believes that solar and wind alone can supplant all existing
>>>> generation; however, they can supplant a very significant fraction
>>>> of it (Germany is a good example at 38% from renewables, and increasing
>>>> significantly each of the last three years).
>>>
>>> Well, a lot of environmentalists apparently have less than 4 brain
>>
>> Actually, that's not the case. Various republicans have made that
>> claim enought times that it has become a meme. But it's never been
>> true.
>
> I believe in conservation and have talked to many people on both
> sides of the aisle. Generally, Republicans discredit the whole thing,
> claiming it is nothing by liberal claptrap. As mentioned, Republicans
> think it is their gawdgiven right to drive a big fat SUV and burn as
> much oil as they want.
I believe that Al Gore is a Democrat. Note that he not only considers
it his gawdgiven right to drive a big fat SUV but also to be
accompanied by an entorage of them when he's not flying his big fat
private jet. So I guess that that description applies to all the
other 40 some odd million registered Democrats.
> Unfortunately, on the flip side, many environmentalists are equally
> clueless and frustrating to deal with. They have no concept of numbers.
> They simply don't understand that if you want to close down a 500MW
> power plant, you're gonna need 500MW of dependable consistent power
> from another source, and solar and wind ain't gonna cut it. They
> also don't get that the power company has invested a heck of a lot
> of money into that power plant and naturally doesn't want to throw
> out their investment.
>
> They had a self-appointed "river keeper" make a speech, showing up
> in her very tiny car. Now, if she can get along in a very tiny
> car, great for her, but not everyone, such as a family, can do so.
> Yes, a lot of people drove unnecessarily big fat SUVs or pickup
> trucks, but expecting a family to squeeze into a VW Beetle isn't
> practical either.
>
> I remember a neighbor who was a salesman. He drove around a big
> fat Buick. But his trunk was filled with merchandise. Also, since
> he basically lived out of his car, it was reasonable for him to be
> in something nice all day long, which environmentalists don't get.
> (Just as conservatives don't get that maybe a suburban housewife
> who drives back and forth to the supermarket might not need such
> a big fat Buick.)
No, she needs something that will hold groceries for a family though.
>>> Modern policy has hit the traditional power companies hard. As a
>>> result, they've cut back on maintenance.
>>
>> Modern republican ideas about business (and demands from wall
>> street for profits) have caused them to cut back on maintenance.
>>
>> Don't blame conservation for idiot fiscal policies at the top.
>
> Environmentalists have fought against legitimate power generation
> infrastructure. No good came out of that. They pressured the PUC
> to make stupid policies.
>
> For instance, one area homeowners can save a lot of money is through
> re-insulation and replacement windows. But that's expensive. What
> has environmentalists done to educate homeowners about options on
> that? In my area, not a damn thing.
>
>
>>> Further, the national grid is being used in ways never intended,
>>> making it far more vulnerable to massive failure. Given population
>>> growth, it needs a lot of expansion and modernization which it isn't
>>> getting.
>>
>> That's hard to argue with, but you address that by fixing it, not
>> by discouraging renewable energy sources.
>
> I don't want to discourage renewable energy sources. I just want to
> be realistic about them--what they can actually do and what they
> actually will cost. In my humble opinion, they still have a long
> way to go in development.
>
>
>
>>> Power stability is especially tricky since power is hard to store.
>>
>> Which is why, for example, South Australia just installed a huge Tesla
>> battery system on their grid - it's been working wonderfully.
>
> Well, if it is truly working out well and economical, let's bring
> it to the US. We certainly need it.
It's been in service for a little over a year. Let's see how it
stands up before we go rushing to replace all the peaking plants.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378497 is a reply to message #378323] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:41 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 7:00:11 AM UTC-5, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> Figures, the advertised burn time on LED lighting tends to be the
> expected life of the LED chips when run in spec (in particular temperature
> spec) before they drop to 80% (IIRC). For most LED fittings they are by far
> the most reliable component.
They replaced the yellow big lamps in a parking lot with LED's.
Soon after installation four fixtures were dead.
I have no idea of the energy consumption of large outdoor lamps
between incandescent, mercury vapor (bluish white), sodium vapor
(yellow orange), and LED. I'm _guessing_ sodium vapor is the
most efficient since that is most common despite it being ugly.
I remember in the 1960s mercury vapor came out and there was a big
rush to replace all the incandescents. I'm guessing they weren't
very efficient, though a few hung around in obscure places for
years afterwards.
I also remember in the 1950s some towns put up fluorescent tubes
in streetlights. You can see them in old pictures (often those
of racial trouble). But they didn't seem to last too long.
As mentioned, a lot of suburban homeowners used 150W floodlights
for outdoor use. A very few had mercury vapor lights, but not
many. I'm guessing that wasn't efficient unless one had a very
big property.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378498 is a reply to message #378490] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:42 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:22:01 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 9:10:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> Wow, god forbid that you should take an extra 30 seconds to
>> consider what you discard (or think about it before purchasing).
>
> Today at lunch in the cafeteria I timed it. My friend required
> all of 2 seconds to discard his soda can in the recycling bin
> while discarding his other trash in the main bin.
>
> I don't think 2 seconds is much to ask.
>
> By the way, this places sells Arizona Iced Tea, which still comes
> in glass. (The soda comes in cans.) Both cans and glass are 100%
> recyclable. There is no reason whatsoever why those particular
> items shouldn't be recycled. Yet some Republicans disdainfully toss
> their bottles and cans in the regular trash out of spite.
So why do Democrats toss their cans and bottles in the regular trash?
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378499 is a reply to message #378495] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 20:44 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:32:37 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 3:13:03 AM UTC-5, Mike Spencer wrote:
>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>>
>>> Modern policy has hit the traditional power companies hard. As a
>>> result, they've cut back on maintenance. Power failures take
>>> longer to repair, and they're not as well equipped to deal with
>>> big outages. They fail to due to preventive maintenance. For
>>> instance, in my area, they used to trim trees back away from their
>>> lines every year. Now they only do that every five years. As a
>>> result even minor storms result in failures since tree limbs fall
>>> on the lines. It takes a long time to repair.
>>
>> Gee, I hadda check to make sure I hadn't written that. Only here they
>> haven't done tree trimming for decades save in occasional small spots.
>> Normal Nova Scotia inclement weather now predictably causes scattered
>> or wide outages. People who should know the in-house gossip say the
>> high tension towers are even more vulnerable, some of which will fail
>> spectaclarly in the forseeable future.
>>
>> But I don't inderstand how "modern policy" has effected that. I see
>> it as simply increased short-term profit. The "internal diseconomy"
>> of maintenance is externalized as a cost to users. Even with wood
>> heat and hand-pumped water, we have to have a gen set to maintain
>> freezers and fridge in prolonged outages. More typical rural
>> households lose heat, water and cooking as well as refrigeration in an
>> outage.
>
> Modern policy separated out generation from distribution. They
> also put a lot more focus on the electric rates, which used to
> cover all expenses rolled together. We were lucky in our area;
> in some areas they new policies were so onerous that power
> supply got screwed up.
One of the most whackadoodle arrangements is the introduction of a
middle man who buys power from the generating company and sells it to
the end user and the idiotic politicians think that that's going to be
cheaper than the end user buying it from the generating company
directly.
Of course the people who favor this will come up with all kinds of
bullshit which mostly proves that they do not have the slightest clue
how electric current works.
>
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378506 is a reply to message #378484] |
Mon, 17 December 2018 23:57 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 18/12/2018 00:08, Dan Espen wrote:
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2018-12-17, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 Dec 2018 11:28:09 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-12-17, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [33 lines snipped]
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Because orange one is a big time criminal.
>>>> >
>>>> > Maybe. He's also a sociopathic idiot, but every once in a while he does
>>>> > something good, and balanced reporting should cover both sides.
>>>>
>>>> Like Mussolini making the trains run on time?
>>>
>>> Yeah, I read up on that last century. He executed people and pretended
>>> in speeches that the trains were then running on time.
>>
>> Oh, it wasn't true.
>
> It was an alternate fact.
>
Mussolini's people repair the tracks and then recorded the times the
trains turned up. The trains did not run on time but the timetable was
fairly accurate at predicting when a train would turn up. This was
useful to most people.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378509 is a reply to message #378485] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 03:08 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 19:19:46 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 15:37:30 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 23:16:25 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
[snip]
>>> 75% less energy usage for equivalent lumens is trivial?
>>
>> Actually, I note that the so-called equivalents give off fewer
>> lumens. It appears to be about 10%, and for me, is quite notable. I
>> also use lights more in the cold weather, and the heat given off by
>> the old bulbs is close to where I am sitting.
>
> This is a subtle side-effect issue. My bathroom was noticeable warmer
> in the winter before I replaced 360 watts of incandescent heat with 54
> watts of LED heat.
It is subtle. Since there is little breeze in my home, the
lightbulb-generated heat sticks around me. Yes, I do have central
heat, but I have the heat set higher now that I do not have
incandescent bulbs.
There was another case where incandescent bulbs' heat was a
useful -- though maybe unintended -- side-effect. See RISKS. Go to
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/ and search for "LED traffic lights".
In short, the bulbs were melting away snow so the lights could be
seen.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378510 is a reply to message #378489] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 03:23 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:15:47 -0800 (PST)
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 10:44:09 AM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>>>> Which is why, for example, South Australia just installed a huge
>>>> Tesla battery system on their grid - it's been working wonderfully.
>>>
>>> It supplies power for what, 8 minutes? It's there to cover while a
>>> real power station is run up, should there be a lull in the supply
>>> from renewables.
>>
>> All the online articles I find rave about the batteries.
>> Australia is buying more.
>
> Eight minutes might be enough time to provide a buffer while
> power engineers switch and reroute power if a major source fails.
> (I am not an engineer).
Over an hour (which is what it actually provides) is apparently
enough to stop them needing to buy energy from expensive gas turbine plants
and recently to drop a requirement for 35MW of standby gas turbine capacity.
< https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/08/teslas-battery-in-south -australia-breaks-stranglehold-of-natural-gas-industry/>
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378511 is a reply to message #378485] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 03:44 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 19:19:46 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a subtle side-effect issue. My bathroom was noticeable warmer
> in the winter before I replaced 360 watts of incandescent heat with 54
> watts of LED heat.
How big is your bathroom ? My kitchen (6.5m x 4.5m - call it 300
square foot) only takes 60 watts of LEDs to make it day bright, the
bathrooms (much smaller) run on far less.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378512 is a reply to message #378499] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 03:51 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 20:44:18 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the most whackadoodle arrangements is the introduction of a
> middle man who buys power from the generating company and sells it to
> the end user
What would be called a retailer in any other sector.
> and the idiotic politicians think that that's going to be
> cheaper than the end user buying it from the generating company
> directly.
How many sectors operate by having customers buy direct from the
producer ? Generally there is production, wholesale and retail.
> Of course the people who favor this will come up with all kinds of
> bullshit which mostly proves that they do not have the slightest clue
> how electric current works.
Nothing to do with how electric current works and everything to do
with how business works. If the generating company only sells to a handful
of middlemen they're billing/accounting setup becomes vastly smaller and
they get to concentrate on generating. The middleman OTOH is nothing but
billing and accounting.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378513 is a reply to message #378497] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 06:25 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:41:15 -0800 (PST)
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> I have no idea of the energy consumption of large outdoor lamps
> between incandescent, mercury vapor (bluish white), sodium vapor
> (yellow orange), and LED. I'm _guessing_ sodium vapor is the
> most efficient since that is most common despite it being ugly.
Until very recently HID lighting of various kinds including sodium
vapour was the most efficient form of lighting. A few years ago the top end
of LED efficiency past it and now good mass produced LED chips are much
more efficient (topping 200 lumens per watt[1] at the chip level vs about
170 for sodium vapour at the bulb level - both have driving losses). The
high colour temperature (blue/white) LEDs are the most efficient but the
more pleasant (yellow/white) LEDs aren't far behind.
[1] They're even more efficient if you run them below rated current. The
LEDs in my strip lights are rated at 0.5W per chip, but are running at less
than 0.1W.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378514 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 06:31 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On 18 Dec 2018 09:26:20 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> OK, I was wrong - it's just over an hour. But the point still stands.
You still are.
> The battery station that lots of people are bigging up as the solution
> to intermittency from renewables is no such thing. It's to cover the gap
That's not what this one was installed for.
> when the supply from renewables dips below requirements and while either
> a real power station is spun up to provide the supply or the clouds go
> away and renewables come back. Yes, it works, but now instead of one
> power station, we've had to build three.
One of the benefits they get from the battery is not needing the
expensive fast response gas turbine generators, with the battery they can
wait while the slower responding resources ramp up, the load goes away or
the wind/sun picks up without burning gas. The other main benefit they
derive from it is buying up energy when it is cheap and using it when
they'd have to pay more for it.
Analysed in detail in the links elesthread - general conclusion
battery vs gas turbine - battery wins hands down.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378516 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 08:52 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
> On 12/17/2018 5:07 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> Not really an indicator of anything anymore. The Chinese are capable
>> of very high quality work however the contract has to define every jot
>> and tittle of what constitutes "high quality" because they're going to
>> make the minimum effort necessary to meet the contract.
>>
> Of course the Chinese are capable of high-quality work. But that's not
> what they're contracted for.
Which isn't their fault.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378517 is a reply to message #378496] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 09:00 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:11:21 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> They had a self-appointed "river keeper" make a speech, showing up
>> in her very tiny car. Now, if she can get along in a very tiny
>> car, great for her, but not everyone, such as a family, can do so.
>> Yes, a lot of people drove unnecessarily big fat SUVs or pickup
>> trucks, but expecting a family to squeeze into a VW Beetle isn't
>> practical either.
>>
>> I remember a neighbor who was a salesman. He drove around a big
>> fat Buick. But his trunk was filled with merchandise. Also, since
>> he basically lived out of his car, it was reasonable for him to be
>> in something nice all day long, which environmentalists don't get.
>> (Just as conservatives don't get that maybe a suburban housewife
>> who drives back and forth to the supermarket might not need such
>> a big fat Buick.)
>
> No, she needs something that will hold groceries for a family though.
Besides, most families don't own more than two cars. You need a car that
supports the worst-case use. If the little woman mostly drives to the
grocery store or hairdresser but occasionally has to haul several members
of her son's hockey team plus all their gear, then she needs the bigger
car. If she had several of varying sizes and means of propulsion, then
maybe she could choose the most appropriate for the job.
--
Pete
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378520 is a reply to message #378517] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 09:25 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 07:00:00 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:11:21 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>
>>> They had a self-appointed "river keeper" make a speech, showing up
>>> in her very tiny car. Now, if she can get along in a very tiny
>>> car, great for her, but not everyone, such as a family, can do so.
>>> Yes, a lot of people drove unnecessarily big fat SUVs or pickup
>>> trucks, but expecting a family to squeeze into a VW Beetle isn't
>>> practical either.
>>>
>>> I remember a neighbor who was a salesman. He drove around a big
>>> fat Buick. But his trunk was filled with merchandise. Also, since
>>> he basically lived out of his car, it was reasonable for him to be
>>> in something nice all day long, which environmentalists don't get.
>>> (Just as conservatives don't get that maybe a suburban housewife
>>> who drives back and forth to the supermarket might not need such
>>> a big fat Buick.)
>>
>> No, she needs something that will hold groceries for a family though.
>
> Besides, most families don't own more than two cars. You need a car that
> supports the worst-case use. If the little woman mostly drives to the
> grocery store or hairdresser but occasionally has to haul several members
> of her son's hockey team plus all their gear, then she needs the bigger
> car. If she had several of varying sizes and means of propulsion, then
> maybe she could choose the most appropriate for the job.
The big fat SUVs are in any case an unintended consequence of fuel
economy laws. Used to be that many families had a station wagon. A
station wagon, however, is necessarily a fairly large vehicle that
gets socked with a "gas guzzler" tax. So the car manufacturers quit
making them.
Meanwhile, having recognized that they would not be reelected if they
put a "gas guzzler tax" on 18 wheelers and buses, the Congress set a
cutoff on the tax for commercial vehicles. However they did not
decide what was a "commercial vehicle" by actual usage but by defining
the characteristics. So the carmakers designed a station wagon
substitute that met the definition of "commercial vehicle" and that is
the "fat ass SUV". And it's bigger and heavier and thirstier than a
station wagon.
Note that at this point some idiot usually pipes up with "but they
still make station wagons". Yes, the European manufacturers still
make station wagons, which are not ludicrously taxed in the EU and
other places, and they sell them in the US and pay the gas-guzzler tax
on them.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378521 is a reply to message #378520] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 09:48 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:25:02 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> The big fat SUVs are in any case an unintended consequence of fuel
> economy laws. Used to be that many families had a station wagon. A
> station wagon, however, is necessarily a fairly large vehicle that
> gets socked with a "gas guzzler" tax. So the car manufacturers quit
> making them.
The sad thing is that the big fat SUVs are turning up on this side
of the pond where they are of no benefit whatsoever - there are no tax
breaks, they guzzle fuel and they're too big for our twisty back roads but
people still buy them, they're fashionable.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
|
|
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378522 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 10:31 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 18/12/2018 09:26, Huge wrote:
> On 2018-12-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 10:44:09 AM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>>>> > Which is why, for example, South Australia just installed a huge Tesla
>>>> > battery system on their grid - it's been working wonderfully.
>>>>
>>>> It supplies power for what, 8 minutes? It's there to cover while a real
>>>> power station is run up, should there be a lull in the supply from
>>>> renewables.
>>>
>>> All the online articles I find rave about the batteries.
>>> Australia is buying more.
>>
>> Eight minutes might be enough time to provide a buffer while
>> power engineers switch and reroute power if a major source fails.
>> (I am not an engineer).
>
> OK, I was wrong - it's just over an hour. But the point still stands.
> The battery station that lots of people are bigging up as the solution
> to intermittency from renewables is no such thing. It's to cover the gap
> when the supply from renewables dips below requirements and while either
> a real power station is spun up to provide the supply or the clouds go
> away and renewables come back. Yes, it works, but now instead of one
> power station, we've had to build three.
>
> It wouldn't work in a cloudy Northern European country in the winter.
>
> And like you (I think) I'm tired of greenies who can't count.
>
>
In the European winter the batteries will be used whilst TVs are showing
adverts. During the adverts people get up from their chairs and put
electric kettles and kitchen lights on.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378526 is a reply to message #378474] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 11:21 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 17 Dec 2018 18:08:32 -0400, Mike Spencer
<mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 15:33:35 -0500, J. Clarke
>>
>>> That's something that neither side ever addresses--the government
>>> just keeps growing and will continue to do so until (a) it is
>>> taking 100 percent of everybody's income and there isn't more to
>>> take or (b) its creditors force it into bankruptcy, or (c) it is
>>> conquered and some other country's system is put in place or (d) it
>>> is overthrown by a successful rebellion or (e) politicians evolve
>>> into sentient life or (f) there is an extinction-level event and
>>> the whole issue becomes moot.
>>
>> In the case of f), it works its way back up from bacteria, although
>> there are some comets et al large enough thats not possible. Or there
>> is some Cosmic Plan we Terrans don't know about and someone comes in,
>> fixes things up...
>
> To drift away from the political, now's the time to (re)read
> Heinlein's 1942 story, The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag.
>
> Where is the Art Critic when we need him?
I read that story about 1954. It is interestnig.
--
Jim
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378527 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 11:24 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-12-18, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-12-18, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 12/17/2018 2:33 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> That's something that neither side ever addresses--the government just
>>> keeps growing and will continue to do so until (a) it is taking 100
>>> percent of everybody's income and there isn't more to take or (b) its
>>> creditors force it into bankruptcy, or (c) it is conquered and some
>>> other country's system is put in place or (d) it is overthrown by a
>>> successful rebellion or (e) politicians evolve into sentient life or
>>> (f) there is an extinction-level event and the whole issue becomes
>>> moot.
>>>
>>
>> The problem with this analysis is, otherwise the "corporations"
>> (creatures of government themselves, without governmenments there are
>> no corporations) keep growing/monopolizing until they do the same
>> things. So which should we trust, those who theoretically mirror the
>> will of the people, or those who exist purely for the greed of the
>> few? I know, that's a hard choice.
>
> I know and understand the motivations of corporations (and largely agree
> with them); make money. Governments, much less so. I strongly disagree
> with making adults do things "for their own good", and I largely agree
> with P.J. O'Rourke's comment that "politics is obtaining power and
> privilege without merit". Politicians are utterly convinced that they
> can run your life (and in particular, spend your money) better than you
> can. Nearly always, they're wrong.
>
>
Someone, sometime,
"Politics is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
--
Maus@ireland.com
Opinions offered om any subject:
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378528 is a reply to message #378521] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 11:35 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-12-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:25:02 -0500
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The big fat SUVs are in any case an unintended consequence of fuel
>> economy laws. Used to be that many families had a station wagon. A
>> station wagon, however, is necessarily a fairly large vehicle that
>> gets socked with a "gas guzzler" tax. So the car manufacturers quit
>> making them.
>
> The sad thing is that the big fat SUVs are turning up on this side
> of the pond where they are of no benefit whatsoever - there are no tax
> breaks, they guzzle fuel and they're too big for our twisty back roads but
> people still buy them, they're fashionable.
>
Some enterprising people here buy old SUV's to use in insurance fraud
fake crashes, the driver has a better chance of not being hurt, with the
result that once a vehicle goes over about 10 years, it is almost
impossible to insure them for the second driver.
I should distinguish between things like the Jeep Cherokee, a heap of
s***, and the Land Rover Defender, a genuine all-terrain vehicle. Next
vehicle I will buy, if I still have a driving licence, is a Toyota
LandCruiser.
--
Maus@ireland.com
Opinions offered om any subject:
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378529 is a reply to message #378522] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 12:29 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 15:31:37 +0000, Andrew Swallow
<am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 18/12/2018 09:26, Huge wrote:
>> On 2018-12-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 10:44:09 AM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> Which is why, for example, South Australia just installed a huge Tesla
>>>> >> battery system on their grid - it's been working wonderfully.
>>>> >
>>>> > It supplies power for what, 8 minutes? It's there to cover while a real
>>>> > power station is run up, should there be a lull in the supply from
>>>> > renewables.
>>>>
>>>> All the online articles I find rave about the batteries.
>>>> Australia is buying more.
>>>
>>> Eight minutes might be enough time to provide a buffer while
>>> power engineers switch and reroute power if a major source fails.
>>> (I am not an engineer).
>>
>> OK, I was wrong - it's just over an hour. But the point still stands.
>> The battery station that lots of people are bigging up as the solution
>> to intermittency from renewables is no such thing. It's to cover the gap
>> when the supply from renewables dips below requirements and while either
>> a real power station is spun up to provide the supply or the clouds go
>> away and renewables come back. Yes, it works, but now instead of one
>> power station, we've had to build three.
>>
>> It wouldn't work in a cloudy Northern European country in the winter.
>>
>> And like you (I think) I'm tired of greenies who can't count.
>>
>>
> In the European winter the batteries will be used whilst TVs are showing
> adverts. During the adverts people get up from their chairs and put
> electric kettles and kitchen lights on.
And what do they do for heat?
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378530 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 12:29 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 2018-12-18, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 12/17/2018 2:33 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> That's something that neither side ever addresses--the government just
>> keeps growing and will continue to do so until (a) it is taking 100
>> percent of everybody's income and there isn't more to take or (b) its
>> creditors force it into bankruptcy, or (c) it is conquered and some
>> other country's system is put in place or (d) it is overthrown by a
>> successful rebellion or (e) politicians evolve into sentient life or
>> (f) there is an extinction-level event and the whole issue becomes
>> moot.
>
> The problem with this analysis is, otherwise the "corporations"
> (creatures of government themselves, without governmenments there are
> no corporations) keep growing/monopolizing until they do the same
> things. So which should we trust, those who theoretically mirror the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> will of the people, or those who exist purely for the greed of the
> few? I know, that's a hard choice.
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra
There seem to be a lot of politicians who exist purely for their
own greed. There are others who are owned by the corporations
they're supposed to be protecting us from.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378531 is a reply to message #378490] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 12:29 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2018-12-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 9:10:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> Wow, god forbid that you should take an extra 30 seconds to
>> consider what you discard (or think about it before purchasing).
>
> Today at lunch in the cafeteria I timed it. My friend required
> all of 2 seconds to discard his soda can in the recycling bin
> while discarding his other trash in the main bin.
>
> I don't think 2 seconds is much to ask.
It depends on who you ask. I'll always remember walking down a
street behind someone who had a piece of litter in his hand while
passing a trash bin. Unfortunately, the bin was on the wrong side,
so the litter went onto the sidewalk.
Some people just haven't been housebroken.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378532 is a reply to message #378492] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 12:29 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2018-12-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 8:56:17 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> I agree that Obama has been the best president since, perhaps,
>> FDR. Certainly better than anyone after Nixon.
>
> +1
>
>
>> McConnell will go down in history as the worst senator ever
>> for his total disregard for the good of the country.
>
> +1
Let's face it, anyone who would filibuster his own bill
rates pretty high on the buffoonery scale.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378533 is a reply to message #378528] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 12:32 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 18 Dec 2018 16:35:46 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-12-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:25:02 -0500
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The big fat SUVs are in any case an unintended consequence of fuel
>>> economy laws. Used to be that many families had a station wagon. A
>>> station wagon, however, is necessarily a fairly large vehicle that
>>> gets socked with a "gas guzzler" tax. So the car manufacturers quit
>>> making them.
>>
>> The sad thing is that the big fat SUVs are turning up on this side
>> of the pond where they are of no benefit whatsoever - there are no tax
>> breaks, they guzzle fuel and they're too big for our twisty back roads but
>> people still buy them, they're fashionable.
>>
>
> Some enterprising people here buy old SUV's to use in insurance fraud
> fake crashes, the driver has a better chance of not being hurt, with the
> result that once a vehicle goes over about 10 years, it is almost
> impossible to insure them for the second driver.
>
> I should distinguish between things like the Jeep Cherokee, a heap of
> s***, and the Land Rover Defender, a genuine all-terrain vehicle. Next
> vehicle I will buy, if I still have a driving licence, is a Toyota
> LandCruiser.
So when was the last time a stock Land Rover completed the Rubicon?
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378543 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 14:56 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:30:27 -0600
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 12/17/2018 6:19 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> This is a subtle side-effect issue. My bathroom was noticeable warmer
>> in the winter before I replaced 360 watts of incandescent heat with 54
>> watts of LED heat.
>>
> Easily dealt with, though. I put an electric space heater into mine,
> so I can goose the heat those few hours a week when it's needed
> (bathtime). The rest of the time, the bathroom is at about 53F, same
> as the rest of the house in winter.
Brrr, that's a bit under 12C, I keep the whole house at 21C.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378544 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 15:23 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On 18 Dec 2018 19:58:47 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-12-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 18 Dec 2018 09:26:20 GMT
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> OK, I was wrong - it's just over an hour. But the point still stands.
>>
>> You still are.
>>
>>> The battery station that lots of people are bigging up as the solution
>>> to intermittency from renewables is no such thing. It's to cover the
>>> gap
>>
>> That's not what this one was installed for.
>>
>>> when the supply from renewables dips below requirements and while
>>> either a real power station is spun up to provide the supply or the
>>> clouds go away and renewables come back. Yes, it works, but now
>>> instead of one power station, we've had to build three.
>>
>> One of the benefits they get from the battery is not needing the
>> expensive fast response gas turbine generators, with the battery they
>> can wait while the slower responding resources ramp up, the load goes
>> away or the wind/sun picks up without burning gas.
>
> Oh, look, the very same reason you claimed I was wrong about, some
> 17 lines above.
Gas turbines are a normal part of the mix with or without
renewables, they're there to accomodate demand fluctuating faster than
other sources can ramp up to handle. The battery serves the same purpose but
does it better and cheaper.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378545 is a reply to message #378476] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 15:30 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:07:33 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:50:06 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> On 16 Dec 2018 22:48:04 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>> Naah. Shitty supermarket bulbs. All the others have been going for years.
>>> Part of me thinks they make them last just long enough such that most people
>>> forget how old they are and just buy new ones. They don't reckon on cranky
>>> old fuckers like me keeping track.
>>
>> Look where they were manufactured. If in China it might be rubbish.
>
> Not really an indicator of anything anymore. The Chinese are capable
> of very high quality work however the contract has to define every jot
> and tittle of what constitutes "high quality" because they're going to
> make the minimum effort necessary to meet the contract.
Yes, they do high quality if contracted. But say you buy them at Home
Depot and you have American and Chinese made side by side with the
Chinese slightly cheaper they're likely worse than the American light
bulbs.
Well I bought a pack with two Chinese light bulbs, each burning out
within a year. Bought American made next time and the one I put in
already lasts more than 18 months. Could be a coincidence though...
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378546 is a reply to message #378545] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 15:41 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
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Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:07:33 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:50:06 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
>> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16 Dec 2018 22:48:04 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Naah. Shitty supermarket bulbs. All the others have been going for years.
>>>> Part of me thinks they make them last just long enough such that most people
>>>> forget how old they are and just buy new ones. They don't reckon on cranky
>>>> old fuckers like me keeping track.
>>>
>>> Look where they were manufactured. If in China it might be rubbish.
>>
>> Not really an indicator of anything anymore. The Chinese are capable
>> of very high quality work however the contract has to define every jot
>> and tittle of what constitutes "high quality" because they're going to
>> make the minimum effort necessary to meet the contract.
>
> Yes, they do high quality if contracted. But say you buy them at Home
> Depot and you have American and Chinese made side by side with the
> Chinese slightly cheaper they're likely worse than the American light
> bulbs.
>
> Well I bought a pack with two Chinese light bulbs, each burning out
> within a year. Bought American made next time and the one I put in
> already lasts more than 18 months. Could be a coincidence though...
Not enough data for a conclusion, methinks.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378547 is a reply to message #378477] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 15:55 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:08:21 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:53:03 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> The browning time is known already from experience. You don't even have
>> to look at it. Otherwise, open the door and look, although some heat
>> might escape.
>
> You don't cook, do you?
>
>> Still none of the ovens I owned ever had a light bulb. Seems to not be an
>> essential item for ovens.
>
> Only if it has a window in the door.
Ah okay. I understand now. Most (all?) of my ovens did not have a
window. Then of course you don't need a light bulb. That's what you get
when you rent a cheap apartment...
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378548 is a reply to message #378546] |
Tue, 18 December 2018 16:35 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:41:24 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:07:33 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> Not really an indicator of anything anymore. The Chinese are capable
>>> of very high quality work however the contract has to define every jot
>>> and tittle of what constitutes "high quality" because they're going to
>>> make the minimum effort necessary to meet the contract.
>>
>> Yes, they do high quality if contracted. But say you buy them at Home
>> Depot and you have American and Chinese made side by side with the
>> Chinese slightly cheaper they're likely worse than the American light
>> bulbs.
>>
>> Well I bought a pack with two Chinese light bulbs, each burning out
>> within a year. Bought American made next time and the one I put in
>> already lasts more than 18 months. Could be a coincidence though...
>
> Not enough data for a conclusion, methinks.
You might be right. Let's wait until this one burns out and how long the
second last. Still might be not enough data to tell if American or
Chinese products in the low budget sector have the better quality.
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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