| motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372650] |
Mon, 20 August 2018 15:49  |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
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Hello
I'm working on getting an Apple II+ working out of some old rescued
parts I had on hand ( http://www.deater.net/weave/vmwprod/apple2plus/ )
One thing I don't have is the mounting hardware for mounting the motherboard
and keyboard to the case. I can't seem to find any reference for
what parts were used for that, other than the diagram in the back of
the Apple ][ reference maual.
For the motherboard, was it those annoying plastic standoffs you need pliers
to get off? Any recommendations on a good replacement for those? It
doesn't have to look like original, I'm mostly going for functionality here.
Also, does anyone know what size screw is used to connect the keyboard
to the case?
Thanks,
Vince
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372660 is a reply to message #372650] |
Mon, 20 August 2018 21:28  |
Polymorph
Messages: 206
Registered: October 2012
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On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:49:08 AM UTC+10, vi...@pianoman.cluster.toy wrote:
<snip>
> For the motherboard, was it those annoying plastic standoffs you need pliers
> to get off? Any recommendations on a good replacement for those? It
> doesn't have to look like original, I'm mostly going for functionality here.
On my II+ (and I know, because I only disassembled it yesterday), it is a combination of the plastic standoffs (yes the annoying variety - maybe 4 or 5) in addition to a metal block (aluminium IIRC) with holes drilled in it to lift the motherboard from the basepan. The metal block is loose (when not screwed in), but there are 4 longer screws that fit through the motherboard and the piece of metal screwing into the basepan of the II+ (securing both the motherboard and the piece of metal). The piece of metal and the 4 longer screws are aligned horizontally (looking from the front) at the back left of the motherboard. You should see the 4 screw receptacles in the basepan if yours is the same.
Crude diagram of what I am talking about:
BACK OF II+
+---++-----+ <-- Piece of metal with screw holes
| P |+-----+
| S |
| U |
| |
| |
+---+
FRONT OF II+
Hope that makes sense!
Cheers,
Mike
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372683 is a reply to message #372660] |
Tue, 21 August 2018 09:19 |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
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On 2018-08-21, Polymorph <mike.a.stephens@gmail.com> wrote:
> On my II+ (and I know, because I only disassembled it yesterday), it
> is a combination of the plastic standoffs (yes the annoying variety -
> maybe 4 or 5) in addition to a metal block (aluminium IIRC) with holes
> drilled in it to lift the motherboard from the basepan. The metal
> block is loose (when not screwed in), but there are 4 longer screws
> that fit through the motherboard and the piece of metal screwing into
> the basepan of the II+ (securing both the motherboard and the piece of
> metal). The piece of metal and the 4 longer screws are aligned
> horizontally (looking from the front) at the back left of the
> motherboard. You should see the 4 screw receptacles in the basepan if
> yours is the same.
Thanks for the info, very helpful.
Can you measure how thick the aluminum block and standoffs are?
Meaning how high does the motherboard sit above the baseplate?
Also does anyone know if the aluminum block has electrical or thermal
properties, or is it just there to keep the motherboard from flexing
when inserting cards?
Vince
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372684 is a reply to message #372659] |
Tue, 21 August 2018 09:22 |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
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In comp.sys.apple2, you wrote:
> Bad F8 ROM? Bad 6502? Try swapping those out and reseating properly.
> Clean any pins that look black. You appear have clock and video so
> that's a big plus.
thanks, I'll try those things. First I'm going to update the power
supply even though that's probably not the current problem.
> I see you're like me, hundreds of dollars worth of test equipment to
> repair an $80 computer. :)
Haha yes, that's actually my lab at the University. We've been doing
more software than hardware lately so it's nice to get some use out of
all that equipment.
Vince
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372689 is a reply to message #372684] |
Tue, 21 August 2018 15:29 |
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Originally posted by: frank_o_rama
On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 6:22:38 AM UTC-7, vi...@pianoman.cluster.toy wrote:
> thanks, I'll try those things. First I'm going to update the power
> supply even though that's probably not the current problem.
If the supply is marginal, the voltages may test okay, but brown out under load. Then you might not get the initial reset signal to start the 6502 running. It might actually be a "current" problem. :)
> Also does anyone know if the aluminum block has electrical or thermal
> properties, or is it just there to keep the motherboard from flexing
> when inserting cards?
They removed it in the //e, so it was probably just there to keep things extra secure. Just a guess though.
f
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372691 is a reply to message #372683] |
Tue, 21 August 2018 18:33 |
Polymorph
Messages: 206
Registered: October 2012
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On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 11:19:24 PM UTC+10, vi...@pianoman.cluster.toy wrote:
<snip>
> Can you measure how thick the aluminum block and standoffs are?
> Meaning how high does the motherboard sit above the baseplate?
Unfortunately, I reassembled the II+ the same day, so I would have to disassemble again to get exact measurements. :-(
I should be able to measure the height the motherboard is above the basepan though.
> Also does anyone know if the aluminum block has electrical or thermal
> properties, or is it just there to keep the motherboard from flexing
> when inserting cards?
I would imagine it is only for the latter, but who knows?
Cheers,
Mike
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372697 is a reply to message #372689] |
Wed, 22 August 2018 00:47 |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
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On 2018-08-21, frank_o_rama@hotmail.com <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> If the supply is marginal, the voltages may test okay, but brown out
> under load. Then you might not get the initial reset signal to start
> the 6502 running. It might actually be a "current" problem. :)
I did replace the supply, which ended up taking a bit longer than I thought
it would. Didn't realize some of the older power supplies were riveted
shut.
With the new supply the system still doesn't boot, but the graphics output
is much less glitchy.
Vince
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372698 is a reply to message #372691] |
Wed, 22 August 2018 00:52 |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-08-21, Polymorph <mike.a.stephens@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 11:19:24 PM UTC+10, vi...@pianoman.cluster.toy wrote:
>
> I should be able to measure the height the motherboard is above the
> basepan though.
I suppose it should be the same height on all II models, so I should
be able to measure my IIe. I just don't want to get standoffs and
then find out I can't close the lid because the expansion cards are
too high.
I was hoping I could find a note somewhere saying "just use this part#
from digikey" or similar, but maybe it's more fun figuring it all out
myself.
Vince
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372710 is a reply to message #372650] |
Wed, 22 August 2018 04:40 |
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Originally posted by: James Davis
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 12:49:08 PM UTC-7, vi...@pianoman.cluster.toy wrote:
> Hello
>
> I'm working on getting an Apple II+ working out of some old rescued
> parts I had on hand ( http://www.deater.net/weave/vmwprod/apple2plus/ )
>
> One thing I don't have is the mounting hardware for mounting the motherboard
> and keyboard to the case. I can't seem to find any reference for
> what parts were used for that, other than the diagram in the back of
> the Apple ][ reference maual.
>
> For the motherboard, was it those annoying plastic standoffs you need pliers
> to get off? Any recommendations on a good replacement for those? It
> doesn't have to look like original, I'm mostly going for functionality here.
>
> Also, does anyone know what size screw is used to connect the keyboard
> to the case?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vince
1/4 inch high & 1/4 inch wide hex bolt spacers with #6-32 std. fine threading--nuts and screws. You can use Teflon or steel ones. You should be able to get them at any electronics store. You can also use 1/4 inch high cylindrical tube spacers with longer (3/8 inch to 1/2 inch) #6-32 screw and nut, going all the way through their centers. Use Teflon materials where they need to be insulating and steel (or copper/bronze/aluminum) materials where they need to be grounding.
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| Re: motherboard mounting hardware for Apple II+ [message #372716 is a reply to message #372710] |
Wed, 22 August 2018 12:49 |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-08-22, James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> wrote:
> 1/4 inch high & 1/4 inch wide hex bolt spacers with #6-32 std. fine
> threading--nuts and screws. You can use Teflon or steel ones. You
> should be able to get them at any electronics store. You can also use
> 1/4 inch high cylindrical tube spacers with longer (3/8 inch to 1/2
> inch) #6-32 screw and nut, going all the way through their centers.
> Use Teflon materials where they need to be insulating and steel (or
> copper/bronze/aluminum) materials where they need to be grounding.
Thanks, very useful info.
Vince
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| Re: getting an old Apple II+ working [message #372717 is a reply to message #372697] |
Wed, 22 August 2018 12:58 |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-08-22, vince@pianoman.cluster.toy <vince@pianoman.cluster.toy> wrote:
>
> With the new supply the system still doesn't boot, but the graphics output
> is much less glitchy.
Well I went to re-seat the chips to see if it would help...
and it turns out the 6502 was inserted *backwards*.
I guess that will cause a machine not to boot. Not even sure how that
happened, though it's quite possible 20+ years ago I had assembled this
board out of the remains of 2-3 non-working systems.
I put the 6502 the right way around and it will actually beep on boot now,
but the display comes up as a black blinking cursor on solid-white
background. The cursor does move around when you type stuff though,
and control-reset beeps.
Anyway I put a few more pictures up here:
http://www.deater.net/weave/vmwprod/apple2plus/
Vince
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| Re: getting an old Apple II+ working [message #372719 is a reply to message #372717] |
Wed, 22 August 2018 14:42 |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-08-22, vince@pianoman.cluster.toy <vince@pianoman.cluster.toy> wrote:
>
> I put the 6502 the right way around and it will actually beep on boot now,
> but the display comes up as a black blinking cursor on solid-white
> background. The cursor does move around when you type stuff though,
> and control-reset beeps.
Figured out the lack of character generation.
Both my motherboards seem to be missing any ROMs in the ROM SPCL socket.
So I guess that means no character generator?
Is there a good source of this kind of thing? I know in theory you can
just burn your own but that assumes I have access to an EPROM programmer...
Vince
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| Re: getting an old Apple II+ working [message #372909 is a reply to message #372719] |
Mon, 27 August 2018 17:03 |
Vince Weaver
Messages: 136
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I got the standoffs and my II+ is looking more normal.
Still waiting on a 2716 so no text generation yet, but I have lots of
graphics-only programs to test with. So I hooked up a Disk II and the
mockingboard to see if I could get things working.
The Disk II is quieter than I expect, and grumbles a bit more than I'd
like, but it did load the disk.
The colors are all horribly off though. It might be the cheap screen
I'm using though so I need to investigate more. The tint pot didn't
seem to help.
http://www.deater.net/weave/vmwprod/apple2plus/
Vince
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