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VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371030] Fri, 20 July 2018 21:06 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

Announced at KFest.

Livestream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s

Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371036 is a reply to message #371030] Sat, 21 July 2018 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
IUnknown is currently offline  IUnknown
Messages: 45
Registered: November 2012
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Member
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 6:06:47 PM UTC-7, John Brooks wrote:
> Announced at KFest.
>
> Livestream:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>
> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

Take my money now.
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371045 is a reply to message #371030] Sat, 21 July 2018 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steven Hirsch is currently offline  Steven Hirsch
Messages: 798
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On 07/20/2018 09:06 PM, John Brooks wrote:
> Announced at KFest.
>
> Livestream:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>
> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com

Sound is almost totally unintelligible and laptop lid and viewing angle render
projection unreadable. I look forward to actually learning something about
the product.
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371069 is a reply to message #371045] Sat, 21 July 2018 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Denis Molony

Even without the lid in the way, most of the screens are unreadable. Can the camra be moved to the center of the room?
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371071 is a reply to message #371045] Sat, 21 July 2018 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Saturday, July 21, 2018 at 7:33:23 AM UTC-5, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> On 07/20/2018 09:06 PM, John Brooks wrote:
>> Announced at KFest.
>>
>> Livestream:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>>
>> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>
> Sound is almost totally unintelligible and laptop lid and viewing angle render
> projection unreadable. I look forward to actually learning something about
> the product.

Bummer. The 'good' video will go up after KFest. It should be much better than that live stream.

Here are the slides:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cm52xhgW6aIsIcCM_V_Qw-438tG 6e5tS

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371072 is a reply to message #371071] Sat, 21 July 2018 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hugh Hood is currently offline  Hugh Hood
Messages: 678
Registered: November 2012
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Senior Member
On 7/21/2018 7:39 PM, John Brooks wrote:
>
> Here are the slides:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cm52xhgW6aIsIcCM_V_Qw-438tG 6e5tS
>

John,

Thanks for putting those up. They're most helpful.

Do you have a way to capture (other than taking photographs of the
screens) and post sample screen shots for some of the various modes?

I'd be particularly interested in seeing the sharpness/clarity of the
80-column screens.

Also, does it appear that user-developed custom character sets could
populate your board?

For example, I've always wanted to replace some of the less-used
mousetext characters with some of the more common box/line draw
characters in the PC-8 symbol set, so that a screen display using
single/double-lined boxes could be easily replicated on an actual printout.

Also, I gathered from the video that you were accessing some type of
control panel. How is that accessed?

Congratulations on the significant product announcement. BTW, have you
calculated the board's power requirement?





Hugh Hood
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371074 is a reply to message #371072] Sun, 22 July 2018 01:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
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Try this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/d6gMfnSB4hkHybb68

That card rocks!
av
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371077 is a reply to message #371030] Sun, 22 July 2018 03:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
STYNX is currently offline  STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On Saturday, 21 July 2018 03:06:47 UTC+2, John Brooks wrote:
> Announced at KFest.
>
> Livestream:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>
> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

Very nice.

Is there any plan to include support for the Second Sight?
Given the available resources, it should be more than possible :-)
I have 2 SecondSight and could offer one of them as a free lease for development.

Will you make the project open source?

-Jonas
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371079 is a reply to message #371077] Sun, 22 July 2018 06:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
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That is a good question, Jonas.

The card emulates Apple II video modes, The SS video card has dedicated RAM and microprocessor and interface to communicate.

I wonder if the board could see IIgs RAM as a new video buffer for, let's say 320x200x256 or more with double buffering feature. A sort of TurboRez, ideal for games.

John????

av
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371087 is a reply to message #371071] Sun, 22 July 2018 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steven Hirsch is currently offline  Steven Hirsch
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On 07/21/2018 08:39 PM, John Brooks wrote:

>>> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>>
>> Sound is almost totally unintelligible and laptop lid and viewing angle render
>> projection unreadable. I look forward to actually learning something about
>> the product.
>
> Bummer. The 'good' video will go up after KFest. It should be much better than that live stream.
>
> Here are the slides:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cm52xhgW6aIsIcCM_V_Qw-438tG 6e5tS

Thanks, John. I'll echo the desire to see sharp pictures of 80-column text
when you get the chance.

I've already sent a note to reserve a unit.
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371111 is a reply to message #371030] Sun, 22 July 2018 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: frank_o_rama

Interested in one as well!


Had a couple random thoughts about the output from reading the slides...


maybe allow a way to upload PNG transparency image to create a "frame" similar to MAME overlays (bezels)? sanyo monitor, apple logos, 1970s console TV, for example. If someone is using HDMI in widescreen mode (I'm assuming this is your target setup) this might be nice to mitigate the empty black bars on either side of the 4:3 frame. you would need some kind of pin header/usb to upload files (not sure if that's outside the scope of current hardware, software, or project time).

Different video output mode settings; fill screen to borders, 1-to-1 pixels, HDMI output resolution, add an image frame (above), no frames, etc. How are settings accessed?

Also, are you keeping true to the syncing/vertical blank timing? The composite output can be glitchy if done while the trace is on. Are you emulating video output "clean" or adding all original video glitches when changing modes/text smearing with colorburst on/etc. Not sure if that could be emulated accurately via HDMI. Also that glitchy look depends a lot on what monitor you plug into. I think some emulators do "fake CRT scanlines" too, along these lines.

F
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371120 is a reply to message #371030] Sun, 22 July 2018 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Polymorph is currently offline  Polymorph
Messages: 206
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On Saturday, July 21, 2018 at 11:06:47 AM UTC+10, John Brooks wrote:
> Announced at KFest.
>
> Livestream:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>
> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

Hi John,

Awesome project and you've definately got me interested! Congrats all round!

One question I do have is: will the firmware on the card be updatable (by the end user) as things are improved and new features added? If so, how will this happen? A simple program running on the Apple II to update firmware or??

Cheers,
Mike
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371122 is a reply to message #371030] Sun, 22 July 2018 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lukazi is currently offline  Lukazi
Messages: 51
Registered: September 2013
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Member
Hi John,

Congratulations. That is an amazing project!!! I'll be adding my request to the waiting list shortly.

With all the video stuff that I have played around with my biggest issue has been with signal lag (mostly due to the rendering of the TV/Monitor emulation). For that reason I too am interested if the end user is going to be able to make their own firmware changes.

Thanks,
Alex.
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371126 is a reply to message #371072] Sun, 22 July 2018 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hugh Hood is currently offline  Hugh Hood
Messages: 678
Registered: November 2012
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Senior Member
On 7/21/2018 7:56 PM, Hugh Hood wrote:
>
> Also, does it appear that user-developed custom character sets could
> populate your board?
>
> For example, I've always wanted to replace some of the less-used
> mousetext characters with some of the more common box/line draw
> characters in the PC-8 symbol set, so that a screen display using
> single/double-lined boxes could be easily replicated on an actual printout.
>

Please disregard my request.

I now believe this is better handled on the printer end by redefining
the symbol set mappings to unicode characters within the printer itself
(PCL 5e makes that easy), rather than redefining the characters/mappings
on the Apple. I'll make due with the current mousetext box draw characters.

Others, however, may still want some custom character sets.





Hugh Hood
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371139 is a reply to message #371071] Mon, 23 July 2018 07:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sicklittlemonkey is currently offline  sicklittlemonkey
Messages: 570
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On Sunday, 22 July 2018 12:39:47 UTC+12, John Brooks wrote:
> Here are the slides:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cm52xhgW6aIsIcCM_V_Qw-438tG 6e5tS

Very cool.

Any chance of emulating any of the extra modes in the Apple //e Extended RGB card?

One used (in Dazzle Draw etc IIRC) the spare high bit in DHR to select mono (for text) or colour.

Also the IIgs desktop is a bit small. It would be nice to extend it. ; - )

Cheers,
Nick.
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371181 is a reply to message #371030] Tue, 24 July 2018 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 6:06:47 PM UTC-7, John Brooks wrote:
> Announced at KFest.
>
> Livestream:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>
> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

> Do you have a way to capture (other than taking photographs of the
screens) and post sample screen shots for some of the various modes?

I believe there are several HDMI video capture devices which can do this, but I haven't played with them yet.


> Also, does it appear that user-developed custom character sets could
populate your board?

The character set is in SDRAM on the video SoC, so it is not too hard to change. The challenge would be defining how the Apple CPU can access/change the charset memory and then coordinating timing while the font is in-use.


The current focus is to quickly move VidHD from prototype to production. The feature set at launch will be aimed at displaying existing Apple II video modes via HDMI and also adding three high-resolution 1080p text modes:

1) 80 x 45 (24x24 font)
2) 120 x 67 (16x16 font)
3) 240 x 135 (8x8 font)


> Also, I gathered from the video that you were accessing some type of
control panel. How is that accessed?

The VidHD control panel is currently activated by pressing Ctrl-^ (Ctrl-6) in any app. VidHD watches the CPU bus for a read of Ctrl-^ from $C000. When this happens, VidHD pauses the CPU, takes over the bus, reads the keyboard, and runs the control panel UI.

From the control panel screen, when the user presses return (to accept changes), or esc (to cancel), VidHD restores the active AppleII video display and the AppleII CPU is released to continue running.


> Is there any plan to include support for the Second Sight?

Not at this time. the higher SS resolutions don't map well to 1080p.


> If someone is using HDMI in widescreen mode (I'm assuming this is your target setup) this might be nice to mitigate the empty black bars on either side of the 4:3 frame.

VidHD expands the border width from 6 bus cycles to 10. This results in 40 visible Apple II cycles + 20 active border cycles which covers the entire 1920 width of the 16:9 display, with 5 cycles left inactive (=65 cycles per line).


> Also, are you keeping true to the syncing/vertical blank timing?

Yes, the VidHD graphic engine runs at 1MHz and draws one 'beam position' into the HDMI frame buffer every 980ns bus cycle. At startup, VidHD syncs it's beam position timing to AppleII vblank via $C019.


> Are you emulating video output "clean" or adding all original video glitches when changing modes/text smearing with colorburst on/etc

Yes, VidHD models NTSC color fringe artifacts, color dither artifacts, and also the AppleII video fetch pipeline (artifacts when toggling between text & hires modes for example). French Touch's Crazy Cycles works as expected.

Several improvements have also been made:

1) User can display GR/HGR/DHGR using either IIGS colors/mode, NTSC (IIe) artifacts, or HDTV (sharpened 'clean' NTSC).

2) Hires and DHGR can be toggled to mono or color via the VidHD control panel. Mono text, HGR, DHGR can be colorized (ie, B&W or green-screen).

3) Visible Scan-lines option can show each of the 192 or 200 AppleII scan lines.

4) IIGS Text page 2 display shadowing bug is fixed when CPU is at 1 MHz.


> One question I do have is: will the firmware on the card be updatable (by the end user) as things are improved and new features added?

Currently the board requires an external programmer device. I'd like to add in-field upgradeability, but not sure if that will happen.


> With all the video stuff that I have played around with my biggest issue has been with signal lag (mostly due to the rendering of the TV/Monitor emulation). For that reason I too am interested if the end user is going to be able to make their own firmware changes.

There is very little lag now, averaging ~33 microseconds, or 1/2 of one NTSC scanline for VidHD to process a new bus cycle and then draw the resulting beam position.

Custom firmware changes are possible but tricky as there are half a dozen async devices to coordinate between the dual SoCs and AppleII. I'd like to make VidHD customizable, but it would take laying some groundwork first.


-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371187 is a reply to message #371181] Tue, 24 July 2018 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
STYNX is currently offline  STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
Hi John, it is interesting to See that you will be implementing extended text modes.

The Second Sight supports several text modes as well. Spectrum can access an ANSI terminal mode on the second sight.

Do you intend to support the 640x400 mode and the 2nd bank screen like on the VOC? It would allow buffering for smooth video/animations.

-Jonas
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371191 is a reply to message #371187] Tue, 24 July 2018 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 5:47:58 AM UTC-7, STYNX wrote:
> Hi John, it is interesting to See that you will be implementing extended text modes.
>
> The Second Sight supports several text modes as well. Spectrum can access an ANSI terminal mode on the second sight.
>
> Do you intend to support the 640x400 mode and the 2nd bank screen like on the VOC? It would allow buffering for smooth video/animations.
>
> -Jonas


> Do you intend to support the 640x400 mode

No as 400 doesn't scale well to 1080p (2.7x).


> the 2nd bank screen like on the VOC? It would allow buffering for smooth video/animations.

A 2nd SHR bank is likely, though VOC register/control is messy, so VidHD will likely use a different control method.

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371194 is a reply to message #371191] Tue, 24 July 2018 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
STYNX is currently offline  STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 19:04:20 UTC+2, John Brooks wrote:
>> Do you intend to support the 640x400 mode
>
> No as 400 doesn't scale well to 1080p (2.7x).
>
>
>> the 2nd bank screen like on the VOC? It would allow buffering for smooth video/animations.
>
> A 2nd SHR bank is likely, though VOC register/control is messy, so VidHD will likely use a different control method.

Thanks for the reply.

200px has the same scale-problem: 5.4 ...
I suspect that you use
320px + 1280px + 320px = 1920px
140px + 800px +140px = 1080px
basically a 2x4 conversion for 640x200 or 4x4 for 320x200.
The interlaced mode would change that to 2x2 for 640x400 and 4x2 for 320x400.

Introducing completely new graphics modes or new ways to access existing features is not optimal. It would mean that the card is not compatible with existing software. But if you implement new modes anyways, I suspect that a 640x400 2-color mode from a single 32k SHR bank would be appreciated (a 32mhz mode that was missing from the original Apple IIgs but was present in the Atari ST)

-Jonas
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371197 is a reply to message #371194] Tue, 24 July 2018 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 11:08:38 AM UTC-7, STYNX wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 19:04:20 UTC+2, John Brooks wrote:
>>> Do you intend to support the 640x400 mode
>>
>> No as 400 doesn't scale well to 1080p (2.7x).
>>
>>
>>> the 2nd bank screen like on the VOC? It would allow buffering for smooth video/animations.
>>
>> A 2nd SHR bank is likely, though VOC register/control is messy, so VidHD will likely use a different control method.
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> 200px has the same scale-problem: 5.4 ...
> I suspect that you use
> 320px + 1280px + 320px = 1920px
> 140px + 800px +140px = 1080px
> basically a 2x4 conversion for 640x200 or 4x4 for 320x200.
> The interlaced mode would change that to 2x2 for 640x400 and 4x2 for 320x400.
>
> Introducing completely new graphics modes or new ways to access existing features is not optimal. It would mean that the card is not compatible with existing software. But if you implement new modes anyways, I suspect that a 640x400 2-color mode from a single 32k SHR bank would be appreciated (a 32mhz mode that was missing from the original Apple IIgs but was present in the Atari ST)
>
> -Jonas

VidHD's 1080p scales 200-line AppleII video to 1000 lines, with 40-line borders top & btm.

VidHD's Apple compatibility modes are 7MHz (][,][+ 8-bit bandwidth), 14MHz (IIe,IIc 16-bit bandwidth), and 16MHz (GS SHR 32-bit bandwidth).

What AppleII software uses other modes?

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371210 is a reply to message #371181] Tue, 24 July 2018 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirk Mitchell is currently offline  Kirk Mitchell
Messages: 55
Registered: July 2013
Karma: 0
Member
On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 11:25:00 PM UTC-6, John Brooks wrote:
> On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 6:06:47 PM UTC-7, John Brooks wrote:
>> Announced at KFest.
>>
>> Livestream:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>>
>> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>>
>> -JB
>> @JBrooksBSI
>
>> Do you have a way to capture (other than taking photographs of the
> screens) and post sample screen shots for some of the various modes?
>
> I believe there are several HDMI video capture devices which can do this, but I haven't played with them yet.
>
>
>> Also, does it appear that user-developed custom character sets could
> populate your board?
>
> The character set is in SDRAM on the video SoC, so it is not too hard to change. The challenge would be defining how the Apple CPU can access/change the charset memory and then coordinating timing while the font is in-use.
>
>
> The current focus is to quickly move VidHD from prototype to production. The feature set at launch will be aimed at displaying existing Apple II video modes via HDMI and also adding three high-resolution 1080p text modes:
>
> 1) 80 x 45 (24x24 font)
> 2) 120 x 67 (16x16 font)
> 3) 240 x 135 (8x8 font)
>
>
>> Also, I gathered from the video that you were accessing some type of
> control panel. How is that accessed?
>
> The VidHD control panel is currently activated by pressing Ctrl-^ (Ctrl-6) in any app. VidHD watches the CPU bus for a read of Ctrl-^ from $C000. When this happens, VidHD pauses the CPU, takes over the bus, reads the keyboard, and runs the control panel UI.
>
> From the control panel screen, when the user presses return (to accept changes), or esc (to cancel), VidHD restores the active AppleII video display and the AppleII CPU is released to continue running.
>
>
>> Is there any plan to include support for the Second Sight?
>
> Not at this time. the higher SS resolutions don't map well to 1080p.
>
>
>> If someone is using HDMI in widescreen mode (I'm assuming this is your target setup) this might be nice to mitigate the empty black bars on either side of the 4:3 frame.
>
> VidHD expands the border width from 6 bus cycles to 10. This results in 40 visible Apple II cycles + 20 active border cycles which covers the entire 1920 width of the 16:9 display, with 5 cycles left inactive (=65 cycles per line).
>
>
>> Also, are you keeping true to the syncing/vertical blank timing?
>
> Yes, the VidHD graphic engine runs at 1MHz and draws one 'beam position' into the HDMI frame buffer every 980ns bus cycle. At startup, VidHD syncs it's beam position timing to AppleII vblank via $C019.
>
>
>> Are you emulating video output "clean" or adding all original video glitches when changing modes/text smearing with colorburst on/etc
>
> Yes, VidHD models NTSC color fringe artifacts, color dither artifacts, and also the AppleII video fetch pipeline (artifacts when toggling between text & hires modes for example). French Touch's Crazy Cycles works as expected.
>
> Several improvements have also been made:
>
> 1) User can display GR/HGR/DHGR using either IIGS colors/mode, NTSC (IIe) artifacts, or HDTV (sharpened 'clean' NTSC).
>
> 2) Hires and DHGR can be toggled to mono or color via the VidHD control panel. Mono text, HGR, DHGR can be colorized (ie, B&W or green-screen).
>
> 3) Visible Scan-lines option can show each of the 192 or 200 AppleII scan lines.
>
> 4) IIGS Text page 2 display shadowing bug is fixed when CPU is at 1 MHz.
>
>
>> One question I do have is: will the firmware on the card be updatable (by the end user) as things are improved and new features added?
>
> Currently the board requires an external programmer device. I'd like to add in-field upgradeability, but not sure if that will happen.
>
>
>> With all the video stuff that I have played around with my biggest issue has been with signal lag (mostly due to the rendering of the TV/Monitor emulation). For that reason I too am interested if the end user is going to be able to make their own firmware changes.
>
> There is very little lag now, averaging ~33 microseconds, or 1/2 of one NTSC scanline for VidHD to process a new bus cycle and then draw the resulting beam position.
>
> Custom firmware changes are possible but tricky as there are half a dozen async devices to coordinate between the dual SoCs and AppleII. I'd like to make VidHD customizable, but it would take laying some groundwork first.
>
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

It was a sweet and wonderful session. I have my spare GS monitors, but I'm convinced I should bring them to the next KFest and buy 2-3 cards instead!
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371218 is a reply to message #371030] Wed, 25 July 2018 04:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Nicola

On 21/07/2018 03:06, John Brooks wrote:
> Announced at KFest.
>
> Livestream:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>
> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com

That looks great! Any plan to support the //c? I have been looking for a
good way to send video output from a //c (possibly via PAL adapter) to
a monitor with an HDMI interface for a while...

Nicola
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371224 is a reply to message #371197] Wed, 25 July 2018 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
STYNX is currently offline  STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
> VidHD's 1080p scales 200-line AppleII video to 1000 lines, with 40-line borders top & btm.

This results in a 4:5/2:5 pixel aspect ratio with 1280x1000 or a 6:5/3:5 aspect ratio for 1920x1000. Apple has described a 5:6 aspect ratio for the 320x200 and a 5:12 ratio for the 640 mode. Most developers have developed with a 1:1 or 1:2 aspect ratio in mind, as it was easier.

Anyways, I really appreciate your work to get a low latency graphics card to the Apple II. The support of all 2gs graphics modes to the classic A2 computers is really nice. Especially the synchronization between the native video with the graphics card is an excellent idea.

- Jonas
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371225 is a reply to message #371224] Wed, 25 July 2018 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 6:08:21 AM UTC-7, STYNX wrote:
>> VidHD's 1080p scales 200-line AppleII video to 1000 lines, with 40-line borders top & btm.
>
> This results in a 4:5/2:5 pixel aspect ratio with 1280x1000 or a 6:5/3:5 aspect ratio for 1920x1000. Apple has described a 5:6 aspect ratio for the 320x200 and a 5:12 ratio for the 640 mode. Most developers have developed with a 1:1 or 1:2 aspect ratio in mind, as it was easier.
>
> Anyways, I really appreciate your work to get a low latency graphics card to the Apple II. The support of all 2gs graphics modes to the classic A2 computers is really nice. Especially the synchronization between the native video with the graphics card is an excellent idea.
>
> - Jonas

A good description of pixel aspect ratio is in Sather 8-28 "Aspect Ratio in the Apple Display".

Sather calculates the AppleII aspect ratio at 1.225 (W/H). VidHD draws the 40 visible bus cycles x 200 lines to 1280x1000 for an aspect ratio of 1.28.

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371226 is a reply to message #371197] Wed, 25 July 2018 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
STYNX is currently offline  STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
> VidHD's 1080p scales 200-line AppleII video to 1000 lines, with 40-line borders top & btm.

A 1920x1000 screen will result in a 6:5/3:5 pixel aspect ratio. A 1280x1000 will be 4:5/2:5. Apple has defined a 5:6/5:12 aspect ratio for SHR and software developers have mostly worked with a 1:1/1:2 pixel aspect ratio.

All this is highly dependent on the used monitor and the geometry settings.

Anyways, I highly appreciate a low latency fully synchronized graphics card that allows usage of SHR on older systems.

-Jonas
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371233 is a reply to message #371030] Wed, 25 July 2018 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Egan Ford is currently offline  Egan Ford
Messages: 304
Registered: October 2012
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On 7/20/18 7:06 PM, John Brooks wrote:
> Announced at KFest.
>
> Livestream:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>
> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com

Email sent.

I didn't read in this thread or slides any mention of HDMI audio
support. Will there be pass-through audio, either 3.5MM from audio card
or 2pin connector from the MB for the system speaker?
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371241 is a reply to message #371233] Wed, 25 July 2018 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 8:42:12 AM UTC-7, Egan Ford wrote:
> On 7/20/18 7:06 PM, John Brooks wrote:
>> Announced at KFest.
>>
>> Livestream:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>>
>> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>
> Email sent.
>
> I didn't read in this thread or slides any mention of HDMI audio
> support. Will there be pass-through audio, either 3.5MM from audio card
> or 2pin connector from the MB for the system speaker?

VidHD is video-only, but there are several ways to handle audio:

1) Audio directly to speakers

2) Combine 3.5" or RCA audio with HDMI via the TV audio-in, or an AV receiver

3) Use an HDMI->DVI dongle and a DVI+RCA->HDMI converter box for combo HDMI w/audio

Henry at ReActiveMicro.com was looking at making a single 3.5"+HDMI->HDMI board (like #3 above).

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371257 is a reply to message #371197] Wed, 25 July 2018 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sicklittlemonkey is currently offline  sicklittlemonkey
Messages: 570
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 07:15:52 UTC+12, John Brooks wrote:
> What AppleII software uses other modes?

As I mentioned before, at least Dazzle Draw uses the DHR mixed mode from the Video 7 and Apple //e Extended 80 Column RGD card.

Here's a description from 12 years ago in c.s.a2 by Matt J:

Mode 3 - MIX. A byte is considered to be either colour or mono
depending on the state of the high order bit in each display byte. In
DHR, this bit is irrelevant in terms of colour information or raster
pattern, so is reused in this case to provide an interesting mode.
Dazzle Draw at least, makes it possible to utilise this mode for
drawing DHR, and outputs its picture files in a manner that maintains
compatibility with Mode 3.

Cheers,
Nick.
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371261 is a reply to message #371257] Wed, 25 July 2018 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: inexorabletash

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 6:57:43 PM UTC-7, Nick Westgate wrote:
> On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 07:15:52 UTC+12, John Brooks wrote:
>> What AppleII software uses other modes?
>
> As I mentioned before, at least Dazzle Draw uses the DHR mixed mode from the Video 7 and Apple //e Extended 80 Column RGD card.

a.k.a. "Extended 80-Column Text / AppleColor Adaptor Card"
a.k.a. "AppleColor RGB Adaptor Card"

Manual at:
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/hardwa re/video/Ext80ColumnAppleColorCard.pdf

MouseDesk/Apple II DeskTop uses "Mode 1" (560x192 monochrome). The 3 modes are selected by hitting AN3 on/off in a particular pattern before/after toggling 80COL off and on. (Page 57 in the manual)
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371262 is a reply to message #371181] Wed, 25 July 2018 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 10:25:00 PM UTC-7, John Brooks wrote:
> On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 6:06:47 PM UTC-7, John Brooks wrote:
>> Announced at KFest.
>>
>> Livestream:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>>
>> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>>
>> -JB
>> @JBrooksBSI
>
>> Do you have a way to capture (other than taking photographs of the
> screens) and post sample screen shots for some of the various modes?
>
> I believe there are several HDMI video capture devices which can do this, but I haven't played with them yet.
>
>
>> Also, does it appear that user-developed custom character sets could
> populate your board?
>
> The character set is in SDRAM on the video SoC, so it is not too hard to change. The challenge would be defining how the Apple CPU can access/change the charset memory and then coordinating timing while the font is in-use.
>
>
> The current focus is to quickly move VidHD from prototype to production. The feature set at launch will be aimed at displaying existing Apple II video modes via HDMI and also adding three high-resolution 1080p text modes:
>
> 1) 80 x 45 (24x24 font)
> 2) 120 x 67 (16x16 font)
> 3) 240 x 135 (8x8 font)
>
>
>> Also, I gathered from the video that you were accessing some type of
> control panel. How is that accessed?
>
> The VidHD control panel is currently activated by pressing Ctrl-^ (Ctrl-6) in any app. VidHD watches the CPU bus for a read of Ctrl-^ from $C000. When this happens, VidHD pauses the CPU, takes over the bus, reads the keyboard, and runs the control panel UI.
>
> From the control panel screen, when the user presses return (to accept changes), or esc (to cancel), VidHD restores the active AppleII video display and the AppleII CPU is released to continue running.
>
>
>> Is there any plan to include support for the Second Sight?
>
> Not at this time. the higher SS resolutions don't map well to 1080p.
>
>
>> If someone is using HDMI in widescreen mode (I'm assuming this is your target setup) this might be nice to mitigate the empty black bars on either side of the 4:3 frame.
>
> VidHD expands the border width from 6 bus cycles to 10. This results in 40 visible Apple II cycles + 20 active border cycles which covers the entire 1920 width of the 16:9 display, with 5 cycles left inactive (=65 cycles per line).
>
>
>> Also, are you keeping true to the syncing/vertical blank timing?
>
> Yes, the VidHD graphic engine runs at 1MHz and draws one 'beam position' into the HDMI frame buffer every 980ns bus cycle. At startup, VidHD syncs it's beam position timing to AppleII vblank via $C019.
>
>
>> Are you emulating video output "clean" or adding all original video glitches when changing modes/text smearing with colorburst on/etc
>
> Yes, VidHD models NTSC color fringe artifacts, color dither artifacts, and also the AppleII video fetch pipeline (artifacts when toggling between text & hires modes for example). French Touch's Crazy Cycles works as expected.
>
> Several improvements have also been made:
>
> 1) User can display GR/HGR/DHGR using either IIGS colors/mode, NTSC (IIe) artifacts, or HDTV (sharpened 'clean' NTSC).
>
> 2) Hires and DHGR can be toggled to mono or color via the VidHD control panel. Mono text, HGR, DHGR can be colorized (ie, B&W or green-screen).
>
> 3) Visible Scan-lines option can show each of the 192 or 200 AppleII scan lines.
>
> 4) IIGS Text page 2 display shadowing bug is fixed when CPU is at 1 MHz.
>
>
>> One question I do have is: will the firmware on the card be updatable (by the end user) as things are improved and new features added?
>
> Currently the board requires an external programmer device. I'd like to add in-field upgradeability, but not sure if that will happen.
>
>
>> With all the video stuff that I have played around with my biggest issue has been with signal lag (mostly due to the rendering of the TV/Monitor emulation). For that reason I too am interested if the end user is going to be able to make their own firmware changes.
>
> There is very little lag now, averaging ~33 microseconds, or 1/2 of one NTSC scanline for VidHD to process a new bus cycle and then draw the resulting beam position.
>
> Custom firmware changes are possible but tricky as there are half a dozen async devices to coordinate between the dual SoCs and AppleII. I'd like to make VidHD customizable, but it would take laying some groundwork first.
>
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

Today I fixed some compatibility problems between VidHD and A2Heaven's FASTChip //e accelerator.

I also got VidHD working with the Elgato HD60 1080p video capture box.

While testing I recorded a crazy video of Wavy Navy demo mode playing at 16..6 MHz on the VidHD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ0OzjJcJeA

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371263 is a reply to message #371261] Thu, 26 July 2018 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 8:35:10 PM UTC-7, inexora...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 6:57:43 PM UTC-7, Nick Westgate wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 07:15:52 UTC+12, John Brooks wrote:
>>> What AppleII software uses other modes?
>>
>> As I mentioned before, at least Dazzle Draw uses the DHR mixed mode from the Video 7 and Apple //e Extended 80 Column RGD card.
>
> a.k.a. "Extended 80-Column Text / AppleColor Adaptor Card"
> a.k.a. "AppleColor RGB Adaptor Card"
>
> Manual at:
> ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/hardwa re/video/Ext80ColumnAppleColorCard.pdf
>
> MouseDesk/Apple II DeskTop uses "Mode 1" (560x192 monochrome). The 3 modes are selected by hitting AN3 on/off in a particular pattern before/after toggling 80COL off and on. (Page 57 in the manual)

Anyone have a spec for Mode 3 (how and which pixels are affected by the high bit of a given byte)?

Also, anyone have a working RGB card and monitor?

-JB
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371277 is a reply to message #371225] Thu, 26 July 2018 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
STYNX is currently offline  STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 15:22:03 UTC+2, John Brooks wrote:
> A good description of pixel aspect ratio is in Sather 8-28 "Aspect Ratio in the Apple Display".
>
> Sather calculates the AppleII aspect ratio at 1.225 (W/H). VidHD draws the 40 visible bus cycles x 200 lines to 1280x1000 for an aspect ratio of 1.28.

Apple has defined a 4:3 screen aspect ratio with a 5:6 pixel aspect ratio for 320x200.
-> the 200px have to be stretched to 240px on a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio display (TFT)

320x200 (3,8:5) =>1225:1000 = 49:40
1280x1000 (4:5) => 1280:1000 = 32:25
320x200 (5:6) => 1333:1000 = 4:3
320x200 (1:1) => 1600:1000 = 16:10

Most monitors will display 16:10 when using the composite output as will non-Apple RGB Monitors without changing the height or width. I think that aspect ratio is not that important as long as it is not completely disrupting the presentation. Most developers of games or software had assumed a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio and most games and software will look good at 16:10 as well as 4:3 screen aspect ratio.

Adding options for other (optional) aspect ratios to be selected by the user might be a good choice. There is no correct way to display the SHR or any other A2 Mode since the monitor hardware is very diverse and mostly not properly set up.

-Jonas
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371278 is a reply to message #371263] Thu, 26 July 2018 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
STYNX is currently offline  STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 07:18:00 UTC+2, John Brooks wrote:
> Anyone have a spec for Mode 3 (how and which pixels are affected by the high bit of a given byte)?
> Also, anyone have a working RGB card and monitor?

The "Chat Mauve Feline" allows color and bw mode at the same time in DHR. It is one of the best RGB cards for the Apple IIe. It uses bit7 in mode 3 to switch color on and off.

http://boutillon.free.fr/Underground/Underground.html
http://boutillon.free.fr/Underground/Anim_Et_Graph/Extasie_C hat_Mauve_Reloaded/Extasie_Chat_Mauve_Reloaded.html

-Jonas
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371297 is a reply to message #371087] Thu, 26 July 2018 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 6:18:32 AM UTC-7, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> On 07/21/2018 08:39 PM, John Brooks wrote:
>
>>>> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>>>
>>> Sound is almost totally unintelligible and laptop lid and viewing angle render
>>> projection unreadable. I look forward to actually learning something about
>>> the product.
>>
>> Bummer. The 'good' video will go up after KFest. It should be much better than that live stream.
>>
>> Here are the slides:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cm52xhgW6aIsIcCM_V_Qw-438tG 6e5tS
>
> Thanks, John. I'll echo the desire to see sharp pictures of 80-column text
> when you get the chance.
>
> I've already sent a note to reserve a unit.

Here is a video of VidHD's 1080p text modes: 40x24, 80x24, 80x45, 120x67, 240x135

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmiIFyvbMn0&t=4s

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371298 is a reply to message #371139] Thu, 26 July 2018 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: r.sheehan

On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 11:06:19 PM UTC+12, Nick Westgate wrote:

> Any chance of emulating any of the extra modes in the Apple //e Extended RGB card?
>
> One used (in Dazzle Draw etc IIRC) the spare high bit in DHR to select mono (for text) or colour.

I would second that request, if possible. The mixed mode was also used in MouseCalc and BeagleGraphics.

Very interesting card. Thanks
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371303 is a reply to message #371030] Thu, 26 July 2018 20:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 6:06:47 PM UTC-7, John Brooks wrote:
> Announced at KFest.
>
> Livestream:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1R4hIl8l4&feature=yout u.be&t=1h58m0s
>
> Waiting list for $129 VidHD card is now open. Email vidhd@blueshiftinc.com
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

Here is the official KFest 2018 video of my VidHD presentation. It's much better quality than the livestream.

https://archive.org/details/KansasFest_2018_Introducing_VidH D

Live demo of VidHD @ 8m15s.

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371305 is a reply to message #371297] Thu, 26 July 2018 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: dmrogers99

On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 6:36:28 PM UTC-4, John Brooks wrote:

> Here is a video of VidHD's 1080p text modes: 40x24, 80x24, 80x45, 120x67, 240x135
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmiIFyvbMn0&t=4s
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

So is the utility of the 80x45, 120x67 and 240x135 modes limited to mirroring the text page multiple times on the screen?

For a second, I thought it was something like the Videx Ultraterm, though it would require a driver for programs to use it. The VidHD watches the bus, but is there any way for the II to talk to the VidHD and output text like a video terminal card?

It's not like the II is ever going to be anybody's main productivity machine, but it seems somehow appealing to me to have AppleWorks or SuperCalc displaying spreadsheets at something greater than 80x24.

If wishes were fishes... :)

Dave
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371308 is a reply to message #371305] Thu, 26 July 2018 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 6:29:37 PM UTC-7, dmrog...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 6:36:28 PM UTC-4, John Brooks wrote:
>
>> Here is a video of VidHD's 1080p text modes: 40x24, 80x24, 80x45, 120x67, 240x135
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmiIFyvbMn0&t=4s
>>
>> -JB
>> @JBrooksBSI
>
> So is the utility of the 80x45, 120x67 and 240x135 modes limited to mirroring the text page multiple times on the screen?
>
> For a second, I thought it was something like the Videx Ultraterm, though it would require a driver for programs to use it. The VidHD watches the bus, but is there any way for the II to talk to the VidHD and output text like a video terminal card?
>
> It's not like the II is ever going to be anybody's main productivity machine, but it seems somehow appealing to me to have AppleWorks or SuperCalc displaying spreadsheets at something greater than 80x24.
>
> If wishes were fishes... :)
>
> Dave

Yes, the mirroring was only to easily demo at kfest the equivalent number of 80x24 text pages usable in each extended text mode.

The normal mode stores text in aux mem at $2000-$9E90 (240x135 chars).


> it seems somehow appealing to me to have AppleWorks or SuperCalc displaying spreadsheets at something greater than 80x24.

Agreed. Similarly, I'd like to use the extended text modes for Applesoft listings, Merlin assembler, infocom text adventures, etc.


The Apple II text API is pretty flexible, included in all Apple II ROM versions, and a good fit for extended text modes (like the Ultraterm).

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371310 is a reply to message #371277] Thu, 26 July 2018 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
STYNX <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 15:22:03 UTC+2, John Brooks wrote:
>> A good description of pixel aspect ratio is in Sather 8-28 "Aspect Ratio
>> in the Apple Display".
>>
>> Sather calculates the AppleII aspect ratio at 1.225 (W/H). VidHD draws
>> the 40 visible bus cycles x 200 lines to 1280x1000 for an aspect ratio of 1.28.
>
> Apple has defined a 4:3 screen aspect ratio with a 5:6 pixel aspect ratio for 320x200.
> -> the 200px have to be stretched to 240px on a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio display (TFT)
>
> 320x200 (3,8:5) =>1225:1000 = 49:40
> 1280x1000 (4:5) => 1280:1000 = 32:25
> 320x200 (5:6) => 1333:1000 = 4:3
> 320x200 (1:1) => 1600:1000 = 16:10
>
> Most monitors will display 16:10 when using the composite output as will
> non-Apple RGB Monitors without changing the height or width. I think that
> aspect ratio is not that important as long as it is not completely
> disrupting the presentation. Most developers of games or software had
> assumed a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio and most games and software will look
> good at 16:10 as well as 4:3 screen aspect ratio.
>
> Adding options for other (optional) aspect ratios to be selected by the
> user might be a good choice. There is no correct way to display the SHR
> or any other A2 Mode since the monitor hardware is very diverse and
> mostly not properly set up.
>
> -Jonas
>

Except that early and frequently later, color graphics were displayed on a
color TV which was correctly adjusted for broadcast TV display.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: VidHD: New 1080p HDMI video card for the AppleII [message #371320 is a reply to message #371308] Fri, 27 July 2018 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: dmrogers99

On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 9:56:59 PM UTC-4, John Brooks wrote:

> Yes, the mirroring was only to easily demo at kfest the equivalent number of 80x24 text pages usable in each extended text mode.
>
> The normal mode stores text in aux mem at $2000-$9E90 (240x135 chars).
>
>
>> it seems somehow appealing to me to have AppleWorks or SuperCalc displaying spreadsheets at something greater than 80x24.
>
> Agreed. Similarly, I'd like to use the extended text modes for Applesoft listings, Merlin assembler, infocom text adventures, etc.
>
>
> The Apple II text API is pretty flexible, included in all Apple II ROM versions, and a good fit for extended text modes (like the Ultraterm).
>
> -JB
> @JBrooksBSI

Wonderful news! Thanks!

Dave
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