| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369345 is a reply to message #369321] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 13:57   |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:01:28 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>
>> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 11:10:16 AM UTC-6, Questor wrote:
>>
>>> You need to go a little further back in your history. The Vietnam war started
>>> in the mid-1800s when the French invaded and placed the region under colonial
>>> rule. Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh were fighting to get their country back.
>>
>> Communism, in Vietnam, in Cuba, in China, in Russia has been a horrifying and
>> frightful system of tyranny. We should, properly, react to it as we do to
>> Nazism.
>>
>> I wish the United States could have successfully defended South Vietnam against
>> Communist aggression without sending any American boys to fight there. However,
>> I can't think of a way they could have done this.
>
> Since we were so confident about the superiority of Capitalism, we could
> have just waited for the inferior system to fail.
>
> Which was how things eventually turned out.
The Communist Viet Nam hasn't failed, but Soviet Russia did. Herr
Putin is trying o get it back. I say 'Herr' as I think of him as more
a German dictatorial type than a Russian one.
The Pentagon had no plan on how to win in Viet Nam.
And South Viet Nam was part of SEATO. They asked for help, but so did
the U.S. business that had offices there. Oil companies, a big cattle
ranch, etc.
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| Re: post-war migrations, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369346 is a reply to message #369334] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 13:59 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> In article <27567399.551355077.264793.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Remember the boat people?!! We in the US live every day with the boat
>>> people and their descendants!!! It seems the US inherits a wave of
>>> people from every war that is fought.
>>
>> Another group who has come here and done pretty well, for themselves and
>> for us.
>
> Indeed. Remember that a century ago a lot of Americans didn't
> consider Irish or Italians to be white because, among other things,
> they're Catholics. Now we all drink green beer in March and eat pizza
> every day and nobody cared what church Marco Rubio goes to.
>
> I'm surprised that Vietnamese food hasn't become more common in the
> U.S. but maybe I'm too impatient.
>
It seems pretty common - not as much as Chinese or pizza, but more so than
Irish, Turkish, or Ethiopian, e.g.
--
Pete
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369348 is a reply to message #369327] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 14:11 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-06-22, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 22/06/2018 15:58, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:44:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> > On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 1:13:47 PM UTC-6, Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
>>>> >> His status is irrelevant for anybody who sets out to travel around the
>>>> >> World fully intent and prepared to kill his fellow man receives only
>>>> >> his just deserts if he himself is killed or wounded.
>>>> >
>>>> > That would make sense if you were talking about someone travelling to a distant
>>>> > country to commit a murder or a robbery.
>>>> >
>>>> > Someone who has been conscripted by his country's government is surely less
>>>> > blameworthy.
>>>> >
>>>> > And when the "fellow man" that he is willing to kill is someone who travelled
>>>> > across a border to impose a cruel tyranny on the country he is invading - even
>>>> > though, no doubt, he is also a conscript - then your comment falls apart.
>>>> >
>>>> > For an understanding of the genuine issues in the Vietnam War, I would recommend
>>>> > "Deliver Us from Evil" by Dr. Tom Dooley, which shows the kind of atrocities the
>>>> > Viet Cong were engaged in.
>>>>
>>>> Dooley was a CIA operative, and many of the atrocities he wrote about were
>>>> fabricated or exaggerated. U.S. officials knew this, but their report was kept
>>>> classified until the 1980s. In short, his book was a work of propoganda, an
>>>> early effort in a long campaign of lies told to bolster support for the war.
>>>>
>>>> You need to go a little further back in your history. The Vietnam war started
>>>> in the mid-1800s when the French invaded and placed the region under colonial
>>>> rule. Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh were fighting to get their country back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Of course, if the United States did not truly care about the people of Vietnam -
>>>>
>>>> They didn't.
>>>>
>>>> Once again, the U.S. talks a good game about freedom, democracy, and
>>>> self-determination, but then sides with oppressors or dictators.
>>>>
>>>> The conflict between France and the Vietnamese people was sidelined during World
>>>> War II when Japan invaded. The OSS -- the precursor to today's CIA -- gave
>>>> supplies to Ho Chi Minh in an effort to undermine the Japanese. Because of this
>>>> help, the usual rhetoric about freedom etc., and in light of the anti-colonial
>>>> history of the U.S., after the war Ho Chi Minh thinks the U.S. will help him
>>>> kick out the French. He is wrong; we align with our WW II allies and back their
>>>> effort to re-colonialize Vietnam. So the U.S. was on the wrong side from the
>>>> beginning.
>>>>
>>>> After about ten years the French give up and leave. The U.S. stays on for
>>>> another twenty years after that and continues to repeat the same mistakes made
>>>> by the French as well as making some new ones. It's still not clear that the
>>>> American people have learned any lessons from the disaster.
>>>
>>> Hence my belief that the French have been the source of every bad thing
>>> that has happened in the last 200 years or so.
>>
>> Is that 200 meant to exclude the American Revolution?
>>
>> Picking on the French because they wouldn't support the 2nd Iraq invasion
>> is wrong, so wrong...
>>
> It is the French military that won the American Revolution.
The French Navy cut off supplies to Corwallis in Yorkstown, as well.
The UK could still be fighting (some) of the colonials, if they persisted.
In reference to the 'boat people', large numbers fled to canada, and
[their descendants] formed
the main opposition to the US invasion in 1812.
--
grey
maus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369349 is a reply to message #369331] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 14:28 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 22/06/2018 18:11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
{snip}
> It might have been interesting to see what would have happened if
> the two systems had ignored each other and got on with building societies
> instead of playing who has the biggest stick, but that was never on the
> cards.
This was never an option for Marxism because it was based on the
political middle class robbing the working class. They always need more
factories and farms to rob.
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369351 is a reply to message #369331] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 14:50 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-06-22, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:01:28 -0400
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Since we were so confident about the superiority of Capitalism, we could
>> have just waited for the inferior system to fail.
>
> Indeed and since they were so confident about the inevitability of
> World Communism they could have just waited for the inferior system to
> fail. It would certainly have made the 50s-80s a lot less stressful - and
> cost us some good music.
>
>> Which was how things eventually turned out.
>
> The USSR ran out of steam first that's for sure, and it's not at
> all clear that the West was in any danger of doing the same so yeah sounds
> right.
>
> It might have been interesting to see what would have happened if
> the two systems had ignored each other and got on with building societies
> instead of playing who has the biggest stick, but that was never on the
> cards.
>
After the failure of the 1920 Polish war. (which was commanded by Stalin)
There was a split in Soviet policy, with Trotsky wanting to continue
the international struggle, and Stalin voting to build `Socialiam in One country'
to inspire communist sympathisers in other countries. Trotsky fled.
Things remained like that, ignoring the German invasion, until 1989, since
when the main Western countries have stopped appeasing their poorer
citizens. There will be a revival in Socialism.
My own thoughts with Socialism is that for most people under it, there is
no point in working better.
Eastern Europeans say, under Socialism you had a house, not a great house, etc"
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369352 is a reply to message #369343] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 14:56 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> It seems like it's not Communism, but simply Russia that's the problem. I'm
> not really sure why we can't just all get along, but it seems like if we
> say "black" they say "gold" automatically. Geopolitically there really
> shouldn't be many conflicts of interest.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#96 tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#98 tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#99 tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft
periodic posting ... recent
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#75 Nassim Nicholas Taleb
about was Harvard responsible for the rise of Putin (Russia needed
somebody that could standup to the capitalist looters that Harvard was
sending over).
June 15, 2014 quote from Nassim Nicholas Taleb
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb
"Never debate the ignorant in front of the uninformed: the crowd can't
tell who won the argument". Syrian Proverb
(It makes so much sense but I wish I was aware of it before engaging
Larry Summers.)
(This is the first aphorism here that is not mine.)
.... snip ...
he wrote: "Fooled by Randomness"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fooled_by_Randomness
and "The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Swan:_The_Impact_of_ the_Highly_Improbable
and "Antifragile"
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifragile">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifragile</a>
Summers was protegee of Rubin at the treasury ... and becomes SECTREAS
after Rubin helps CEO of CITIBANK in the repeal of Glass-Steagall
.... and after that gets going, Rubin resigns as SECTREAS to become
what was reported at the time was co-CEO of CITIBANK. Then Summers
later as President of Harvard was involved in what has been referenced
"Is Harvard Responsible For Rise of Putin" ... after the fall of the
soviet union, those sent over to teach capitalism were more intent on
looting the country. "John Helmer: Convicted Fraudster Jonathan Hay,
Harvard's Man Who Wrecked Russia, Resurfaces in Ukraine"
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/02/convicted-fraudster-j onathan-hay-harvards-man-who-wrecked-russia-resurfaces-in-uk raine.html
If you are unfamiliar with this fiasco, which was also the true
proximate cause of Larry Summers' ouster from Harvard, you must read
an extraordinary expose, How Harvard Lost Russia, from Institutional
Investor. I am told copies of this article were stuffed in every
Harvard faculty member's inbox the day Summers got a vote of no
confidence and resigned shortly thereafter.
.... snip ...
"How Harvard lost Russia"; The best and brightest of America's premier
university came to Moscow in the 1990s to teach Russians how to be
capitalists. This is the inside story of how their efforts led to
scandal and disgrace.
http://www.institutionalinvestor.com/Article/1020662/How-Har vard-lost-Russia.html
Mostly, they hurt Russia and its hopes of establishing a lasting
framework for a stable Western-style capitalism, as Summers himself
acknowledged when he testified under oath in the U.S. lawsuit in
Cambridge in 2002. "The project was of enormous value," said Summers,
who by then had been installed as the president of Harvard. "Its
cessation was damaging to Russian economic reform and to the
U.S.-Russian relationship."
.... snip ...
Pecora Hearings &/or Glass-Steagall
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#Pecora&/orGlass -Steagall
economic mess posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#economic.mess
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369353 is a reply to message #369348] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 15:16 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 22 Jun 2018 18:11:02 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-06-22, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 22/06/2018 15:58, Dan Espen wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>>>> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:44:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> >> On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 1:13:47 PM UTC-6, Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
>>>> >>> His status is irrelevant for anybody who sets out to travel around the
>>>> >>> World fully intent and prepared to kill his fellow man receives only
>>>> >>> his just deserts if he himself is killed or wounded.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That would make sense if you were talking about someone travelling to a distant
>>>> >> country to commit a murder or a robbery.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Someone who has been conscripted by his country's government is surely less
>>>> >> blameworthy.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And when the "fellow man" that he is willing to kill is someone who travelled
>>>> >> across a border to impose a cruel tyranny on the country he is invading - even
>>>> >> though, no doubt, he is also a conscript - then your comment falls apart.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> For an understanding of the genuine issues in the Vietnam War, I would recommend
>>>> >> "Deliver Us from Evil" by Dr. Tom Dooley, which shows the kind of atrocities the
>>>> >> Viet Cong were engaged in.
>>>> >
>>>> > Dooley was a CIA operative, and many of the atrocities he wrote about were
>>>> > fabricated or exaggerated. U.S. officials knew this, but their report was kept
>>>> > classified until the 1980s. In short, his book was a work of propoganda, an
>>>> > early effort in a long campaign of lies told to bolster support for the war.
>>>> >
>>>> > You need to go a little further back in your history. The Vietnam war started
>>>> > in the mid-1800s when the French invaded and placed the region under colonial
>>>> > rule. Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh were fighting to get their country back.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Of course, if the United States did not truly care about the people of Vietnam -
>>>> >
>>>> > They didn't.
>>>> >
>>>> > Once again, the U.S. talks a good game about freedom, democracy, and
>>>> > self-determination, but then sides with oppressors or dictators.
>>>> >
>>>> > The conflict between France and the Vietnamese people was sidelined during World
>>>> > War II when Japan invaded. The OSS -- the precursor to today's CIA -- gave
>>>> > supplies to Ho Chi Minh in an effort to undermine the Japanese. Because of this
>>>> > help, the usual rhetoric about freedom etc., and in light of the anti-colonial
>>>> > history of the U.S., after the war Ho Chi Minh thinks the U.S. will help him
>>>> > kick out the French. He is wrong; we align with our WW II allies and back their
>>>> > effort to re-colonialize Vietnam. So the U.S. was on the wrong side from the
>>>> > beginning.
>>>> >
>>>> > After about ten years the French give up and leave. The U.S. stays on for
>>>> > another twenty years after that and continues to repeat the same mistakes made
>>>> > by the French as well as making some new ones. It's still not clear that the
>>>> > American people have learned any lessons from the disaster.
>>>>
>>>> Hence my belief that the French have been the source of every bad thing
>>>> that has happened in the last 200 years or so.
>>>
>>> Is that 200 meant to exclude the American Revolution?
>>>
>>> Picking on the French because they wouldn't support the 2nd Iraq invasion
>>> is wrong, so wrong...
>>>
>> It is the French military that won the American Revolution.
> The French Navy cut off supplies to Corwallis in Yorkstown, as well.
>
> The UK could still be fighting (some) of the colonials, if they persisted.
> In reference to the 'boat people', large numbers fled to canada, and
> [their descendants] formed
> the main opposition to the US invasion in 1812.
The colonials who sided with the Crowne fled to Canada. The choice
they were given was to die or flee. They fled.
There was murder of civilians by both sides in the 1700s.
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| Re: post-war migrations, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369354 is a reply to message #369334] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 15:40 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
> In article <27567399.551355077.264793.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Remember the boat people?!! We in the US live every day with the boat
>>> people and their descendants!!! It seems the US inherits a wave of
>>> people from every war that is fought.
>>
>> Another group who has come here and done pretty well, for themselves and
>> for us.
>
> Indeed. Remember that a century ago a lot of Americans didn't
> consider Irish or Italians to be white because, among other things,
> they're Catholics. Now we all drink green beer in March and eat pizza
> every day and nobody cared what church Marco Rubio goes to.
>
> I'm surprised that Vietnamese food hasn't become more common in the
> U.S. but maybe I'm too impatient.
Or you don't live areas of the country with large Vietnamese immigrant
populations (e.g. Lake Charles, La). It's the
third language on all city signage in the capital of silicon valley, and there are a lot
of Vietnamese restaurants in town.
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369357 is a reply to message #369241] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 16:43 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 5:47:13 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
> The South Vietnamese "desired" communism so much that hundreds of thousands
> fled to the US when Ho's cronies took over. Many who didn't leave were
> killed or underwent "re-education."
When they fled, they did so at great personal risk in flimsy boats.
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| Re: meanwhile in eastern Asia, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369358 is a reply to message #369250] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 16:54 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 8:11:38 PM UTC-4, John Levine wrote:
> If Nixon had been able to hang on longer he'd probably have passed
> single payer healthcare, too. He was a very frustrating character,
> totally without morals who did a lot of bad stuff and a modest amount
> of good stuff.
Nixon's biographer Stephen Ambrose started off his research
expecting to write a hatchet job on Nixon. Ambrose didn't like
Nixon. However, as Ambrose got into it, he found out that the
story of Nixon was complex with various parts. It turned out
some accusations against Nixon from the 1950s were not true,
and some of Nixon's critiques were true.
Ambrose ended up writing a three volume set. Excellent, balanced
work--tells both the good and the bad.
During his presidency, Nixon did do some good things. One he
wanted kept secret, and that was facilitating school desegregation
in the South as painlessly as possible. Nixon worked hard to make
that happen--he ordered that advocates for both sides meet and
work out some sort of agreement alongside a government mediator.
They were warned that if they failed to agree, the government
would impose a drastic solution nobody would like. Nixon's
plan worked.
Nixon also felt it was important blacks have more job opportunities
and privately pushed corporations to do more hiring.
The EPA and Amtrak were created under his watch. He could've
killed them if he really wanted to.
What is sad about Nixon is that he was a brilliant politician.
He could've accomplished a very great deal and have been one of
our best presidents. But he allowed his dark side to take over.
Despite his landslide win in 1972, he went nuts and hired the
plumbers which was his downfall.
Even with Nixon's dark side, I think now I'd rather have him
back in office than Trump. I think Nixon, in his own way,
still wanted to have a better country.
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369359 is a reply to message #369261] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 17:06 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:54:19 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> Communism, in Vietnam, in Cuba, in China, in Russia has been a horrifying and
> frightful system of tyranny. We should, properly, react to it as we do to
> Nazism.
Yes and no.
Yes, communism is a brutal form of government. BUT, in choosing
to fight it, one must look hard at what the alternatives are in
the particular situation.
In Cuba, the US rejected Castro. He wasn't particularly nice to
his people. However, his predecessor, Batista, was just as bad
and probably worse.
In Central America, the US (or surrogates) right against
supposedly "communist" leaders. The commies were knocked
out and replaced by equally brutal dictators who exploited
their people just as much. Haberstram wrote about how the
CIA undermined "unfriendly" leaders to benefit US corporations
exploiting a the country. The US was basically a nasty
colonial power without the formalities. Some of those policies
are now biting us in the butt with massive anarchy in Central
American, thousands of murders, and a desperate refugee crisis.
The communists in China and Russia were very brutal, but neither
of those countries had a particularly good government before that.
In Vietnam, the situation was very murky. Ho and his followers
were quite brutal, but so were the French and their appointed
followers. The Vietnamese leaders the US supposedly supported
were brutal and illegitimate.
I certainly can understand that in the 1950s, early 1960s that
the US wouldn't want Vietnam going communist. But if they
had the smarts to take a good true look at the situation,
they would've known then the best thing would've been to stay
away. Unfortunately, the US did not have the smarts, plus there
were some selfish leaders who wanted the US involved for their
own glory.
>
> I wish the United States could have successfully defended South Vietnam against
> Communist aggression without sending any American boys to fight there. However,
> I can't think of a way they could have done this.
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369360 is a reply to message #369343] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 17:18 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 1:56:09 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>> It might have been interesting to see what would have happened if
>> the two systems had ignored each other and got on with building societies
>> instead of playing who has the biggest stick, but that was never on the
>> cards.
>>
>
> It seems like it's not Communism, but simply Russia that's the problem. I'm
> not really sure why we can't just all get along, but it seems like if we
> say "black" they say "gold" automatically. Geopolitically there really
> shouldn't be many conflicts of interest.
I don't think wars arose so much out of ideological or religious
differences (usually), but rather out of simple greed for money
(including resources) or power. The greedy leader used ideology
as an excuse.
As I understand it, for Churchill, there was a definite undercurrent
in his war strategy to protect England's supplies of oil and
raw materials from its colonies, for instance.
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| Re: meanwhile in eastern Asia, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369364 is a reply to message #369358] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 17:34 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:54:31 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 8:11:38 PM UTC-4, John Levine wrote:
>
>> If Nixon had been able to hang on longer he'd probably have passed
>> single payer healthcare, too. He was a very frustrating character,
>> totally without morals who did a lot of bad stuff and a modest amount
>> of good stuff.
>
> Nixon's biographer Stephen Ambrose started off his research
> expecting to write a hatchet job on Nixon. Ambrose didn't like
> Nixon. However, as Ambrose got into it, he found out that the
> story of Nixon was complex with various parts. It turned out
> some accusations against Nixon from the 1950s were not true,
> and some of Nixon's critiques were true.
>
> Ambrose ended up writing a three volume set. Excellent, balanced
> work--tells both the good and the bad.
>
> During his presidency, Nixon did do some good things. One he
> wanted kept secret, and that was facilitating school desegregation
> in the South as painlessly as possible. Nixon worked hard to make
> that happen--he ordered that advocates for both sides meet and
> work out some sort of agreement alongside a government mediator.
> They were warned that if they failed to agree, the government
> would impose a drastic solution nobody would like. Nixon's
> plan worked.
>
> Nixon also felt it was important blacks have more job opportunities
> and privately pushed corporations to do more hiring.
>
> The EPA and Amtrak were created under his watch. He could've
> killed them if he really wanted to.
>
> What is sad about Nixon is that he was a brilliant politician.
> He could've accomplished a very great deal and have been one of
> our best presidents. But he allowed his dark side to take over.
> Despite his landslide win in 1972, he went nuts and hired the
> plumbers which was his downfall.
>
> Even with Nixon's dark side, I think now I'd rather have him
> back in office than Trump. I think Nixon, in his own way,
> still wanted to have a better country.
My understanding of Nixon was that he decided if someone, or an
orginization, was against him, they were against America.
I believe he was mistaken.
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369369 is a reply to message #369338] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 17:43 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-06-22, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> In article <1442455386.551354357.297902.peter_flass-yahoo.com\
> @news.eternal-september.org>, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> would likely still be a very weak economy.
>>
>> Exactly! And we wouldn't be flooded with so much cheap junk.
>
> I doubt it. European countries were already switching recognition
> from Taiwan to the mainland so the only difference would be where the
> greater trade ties were.
>
> Apropos cheap junk, Americans vote with their wallets. We complain
> about cheap Chinese junk, but given a choice between a cheap Chinese
> product and a slightly more expensive American made one, we'll pick
> the cheap one every time? Remember when Walmart said "Made in the
> USA"? Probably not.
And it's not the first time. Back in the '60s, "Made in Japan" was
a joke. The Japanese improved their quality (and increased their
prices) so the supply of cheap junk moved to Korea. When Korean
goods started improving, supply of cheap junk shifted to China.
"There is hardly anything someone can't make a little poorer
and sell a little cheaper, and people who consider price only
are this man's lawful prey." -- John Ruskin
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
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| Re: meanwhile in eastern Asia, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369372 is a reply to message #369282] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 17:43 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-06-22, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 6/22/2018 1:52 AM, Bob Martin wrote:
>
>> in 697354 20180622 060123 Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/21/2018 7:11 PM, John Levine wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <60832503.551309186.672615.peter_flass-yahoo.com\
>>>> @news.eternal-september.org>, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Nixon did the China thing, which some think was good. Other than that, not
>>>> > so much. If you think recognizing China was a good thing, it shows that
>>>> > good things can come from bad people.
>>>>
>>>> The fantasy that the Chiang government could re-invade the mainland
>>>> and force out the communists had been obviously absurd for a decade,
>>>> so someone had to do it.
>>>>
>>>> If Nixon had been able to hang on longer he'd probably have passed
>>>> single payer healthcare, too. He was a very frustrating character,
>>>> totally without morals who did a lot of bad stuff and a modest amount
>>>> of good stuff.
>>>
>>> Sort of like the German leader with the funny mustache... a small
>>> amount of good things, a mountain of bad things!!!
>>
>> Sounds like Brexit.
>
> Yes! Like Brexit!
Poster seen in a pub in Ireland:
Trump to the left of me
Brexit to the right
Eire I am
Stuck in the middle with EU
> An optimizing compiler tries to compile a few very rare constructions
> and compile them to good machine code... and compile the vast majority
> of things in a crappy manner. NOT!!!
Unless it's a Microsoft compiler...
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369376 is a reply to message #369338] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 20:06 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 17:52:50 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
<johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> In article <1442455386.551354357.297902.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> would likely still be a very weak economy.
>>
>> Exactly! And we wouldn't be flooded with so much cheap junk.
>
> I doubt it. European countries were already switching recognition
> from Taiwan to the mainland so the only difference would be where the
> greater trade ties were.
Except that Europe doesn't have an IBM to teach them how to make
industry-leading computers or an Intel to teach them how to make
industry-leading microprocessors and on and on.
They're kicking our butt because we taught them how to do it.
> Apropos cheap junk, Americans vote with their wallets. We complain
> about cheap Chinese junk, but given a choice between a cheap Chinese
> product and a slightly more expensive American made one, we'll pick
> the cheap one every time? Remember when Walmart said "Made in the
> USA"? Probably not.
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369377 is a reply to message #369318] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 20:08 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:44:15 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:41:40 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:54:24 GMT, usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 10:34:53 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>> >>On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 6:44:01 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >>> You wouldn't expect unbiased info from someone who was actually there in
>>>> >>> the trenches. I think historians believe it takes a generation or so for
>>>> >>> unbiased history to be possible.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>When it comes to history, how does one identify 'bias' and separate
>>>> >>it out from fact?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>For instance, there remains great debate over FDR, his wife, his
>>>> >>handling of the Depression and the New Deal, and his handling of
>>>> >>WW II. Back then, many conservatives hated him, and indeed, many
>>>> >>hate him and his policies to this day.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>His wife was also quite controversial. NBC for a while had on
>>>> >>old broadcasts of Meet the Press--they had Nixon, Martin Luther
>>>> >>King, and Eleanor Roosevelt, among other historical figures.
>>>> >>Fascinating!
>>>> >>
>>>> >>ER said something I didn't like: in response to a question, she
>>>> >>denied being an elder statesman and denied being a politician. In
>>>> >>fact she was both and very much so. Even if she personally running
>>>> >>for office or held a policy position, she was most certainly active
>>>> >>behind the scenes and maintained a lot of influence in her party.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Martin Luther King did a fantastic job in response to hostile
>>>> >>questioning. Several guys kept challenging him along the lines
>>>> >>of "don't blacks have enough now? Aren't you going too far?"
>>>> >>King maintained he sought equal rights, not just a few rights.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Nixon was sad to watch. His appearance was post Watergate.
>>>> >>Curiously, in light of today's events, he said he wished he
>>>> >>could've pardoned his top aides but it would've looked bad.
>>>> >>He also made an excellent political analysis of the ongoing
>>>> >>races, and everything he predicted in the broadcast came true.
>>>> >>What a waste of talent.
>>>> >
>>>> >Nixon was a treasonous war criminal who illegally conspired with South
>>>> >Vietnamese officials to prolong the war for his political benefit in 1968,
>>>> >resulting in the needless death of thousands of young American men,
>>>> >along with the waste of billions of dollars and the loss of some standing
>>>> >around the world as it was revealed what a disaster Vietnam had become.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, and Ford pardoned him to help America heal. I consider him
>>>> really dumb for doing that. And I do believe Noxon, and his VP, along
>>>> with his cabinet, are criminals.
>>>
>>> Not dumb, a traitor. Justice denied is no justice at all.
>>
>> The Constitution defines treason rather narrowly. What particular
>> provision did Nixon violate?
>
> Ford.
> Sold justice for personal gain.
> Traitor to his country and our system of government.
So where, exactly, in the definition of "treason" in the Constitution,
is "sold justice for personal gain" listed?
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369378 is a reply to message #369343] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 20:12 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:56:08 -0400, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 11:01:28 -0400
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Since we were so confident about the superiority of Capitalism, we could
>>> have just waited for the inferior system to fail.
>>
>> Indeed and since they were so confident about the inevitability of
>> World Communism they could have just waited for the inferior system to
>> fail. It would certainly have made the 50s-80s a lot less stressful - and
>> cost us some good music.
>>
>>> Which was how things eventually turned out.
>>
>> The USSR ran out of steam first that's for sure, and it's not at
>> all clear that the West was in any danger of doing the same so yeah sounds
>> right.
>>
>> It might have been interesting to see what would have happened if
>> the two systems had ignored each other and got on with building societies
>> instead of playing who has the biggest stick, but that was never on the
>> cards.
>>
>
> It seems like it's not Communism, but simply Russia that's the problem. I'm
> not really sure why we can't just all get along, but it seems like if we
> say "black" they say "gold" automatically. Geopolitically there really
> shouldn't be many conflicts of interest.
The biggest change in Russia since 1917 is that succession of the Czar
has become chaotic and his title has changed several times.
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| Re: post-war migrations, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369379 is a reply to message #369334] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 20:19 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 17:47:47 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
<johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> In article <27567399.551355077.264793.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Remember the boat people?!! We in the US live every day with the boat
>>> people and their descendants!!! It seems the US inherits a wave of
>>> people from every war that is fought.
>>
>> Another group who has come here and done pretty well, for themselves and
>> for us.
>
> Indeed. Remember that a century ago a lot of Americans didn't
> consider Irish or Italians to be white because, among other things,
> they're Catholics. Now we all drink green beer in March and eat pizza
> every day and nobody cared what church Marco Rubio goes to.
>
> I'm surprised that Vietnamese food hasn't become more common in the
> U.S. but maybe I'm too impatient.
It's common enough that if you read reviews on yelp there's
comparision of the pho produced by various restaurants in the area.
One of the best restaurants around here for many years was Vietnamese.
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369386 is a reply to message #369377] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 21:54 |
Richard Thiebaud
Messages: 222
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 06/22/2018 08:08 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:44:15 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:41:40 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:54:24 GMT, usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 10:34:53 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>> >>> On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 6:44:01 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >>>> You wouldn't expect unbiased info from someone who was actually there in
>>>> >>>> the trenches. I think historians believe it takes a generation or so for
>>>> >>>> unbiased history to be possible.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> When it comes to history, how does one identify 'bias' and separate
>>>> >>> it out from fact?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> For instance, there remains great debate over FDR, his wife, his
>>>> >>> handling of the Depression and the New Deal, and his handling of
>>>> >>> WW II. Back then, many conservatives hated him, and indeed, many
>>>> >>> hate him and his policies to this day.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> His wife was also quite controversial. NBC for a while had on
>>>> >>> old broadcasts of Meet the Press--they had Nixon, Martin Luther
>>>> >>> King, and Eleanor Roosevelt, among other historical figures.
>>>> >>> Fascinating!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ER said something I didn't like: in response to a question, she
>>>> >>> denied being an elder statesman and denied being a politician. In
>>>> >>> fact she was both and very much so. Even if she personally running
>>>> >>> for office or held a policy position, she was most certainly active
>>>> >>> behind the scenes and maintained a lot of influence in her party.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Martin Luther King did a fantastic job in response to hostile
>>>> >>> questioning. Several guys kept challenging him along the lines
>>>> >>> of "don't blacks have enough now? Aren't you going too far?"
>>>> >>> King maintained he sought equal rights, not just a few rights.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Nixon was sad to watch. His appearance was post Watergate.
>>>> >>> Curiously, in light of today's events, he said he wished he
>>>> >>> could've pardoned his top aides but it would've looked bad.
>>>> >>> He also made an excellent political analysis of the ongoing
>>>> >>> races, and everything he predicted in the broadcast came true.
>>>> >>> What a waste of talent.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Nixon was a treasonous war criminal who illegally conspired with South
>>>> >> Vietnamese officials to prolong the war for his political benefit in 1968,
>>>> >> resulting in the needless death of thousands of young American men,
>>>> >> along with the waste of billions of dollars and the loss of some standing
>>>> >> around the world as it was revealed what a disaster Vietnam had become.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yeah, and Ford pardoned him to help America heal. I consider him
>>>> > really dumb for doing that. And I do believe Noxon, and his VP, along
>>>> > with his cabinet, are criminals.
>>>>
>>>> Not dumb, a traitor. Justice denied is no justice at all.
>>>
>>> The Constitution defines treason rather narrowly. What particular
>>> provision did Nixon violate?
>>
>> Ford.
>> Sold justice for personal gain.
>> Traitor to his country and our system of government.
>
> So where, exactly, in the definition of "treason" in the Constitution,
> is "sold justice for personal gain" listed?
>
>
Google "constitution treason".
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369388 is a reply to message #369359] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 22:40 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> I certainly can understand that in the 1950s, early 1960s that the US
> wouldn't want Vietnam going communist. But if they had the smarts to
> take a good true look at the situation, they would've known then the
> best thing would've been to stay away. Unfortunately, the US did not
> have the smarts, plus there were some selfish leaders who wanted the
> US involved for their own glory.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#96 tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#98 tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#99 tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#100 tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft
On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War, loc1800-1802:
President Eisenhower and General Ridgway were looking at the situation
in Vietnam in the traditional military frame of reference. Their concern
was U.S. ability to “destroy the enemy’s armed forces and his will to
fight.”
.... snip ...
The Brothers: John Foster Dulles, Allen Dulles, and Their Secret World
War, loc3400-3402:
Had Foster accepted the Geneva accord and persuaded Eisenhower to do so,
the United States could have avoided involvement in Vietnam. Instead he
resisted it, did not consider the United States bound by its provisions,
and ultimately acted to subvert it.
loc3443-48:
This was the moment at which United States involvement in Vietnam became
a Dulles project. Foster and Allen decided to throw in their lot with
Diem. They persuaded Eisenhower. That set a fateful course. Long-secret
documents from mid-1954 make clear that both sides realized they were
heading toward a clash. In August the National Security Council, where
Foster and Allen held decisive influence, adopted a directive entitled
“U.S. Policies Toward Post-Geneva Vietnam,” which declared that France
must be made to “disassociate” itself entirely from Vietnam so the
United States could fight Ho in its own way.
.... snip ...
along the way there is Nixon's treason, working with North Vietnam
to subvert the Paris Peace talks, multiple news URLs/refs.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#34 Disregard post (another screwup; absolutely nothing to do with computers whatsoever!)
Note: during the 20s through the early 40s, John Foster Dulles played
major role rebuilding German industry and military. loc865-68:
In mid-1931 a consortium of American banks, eager to safeguard their
investments in Germany, persuaded the German government to accept a loan
of nearly $500 million to prevent default. Foster was their agent. His
ties to the German government tightened after Hitler took power at the
beginning of 1933 and appointed Foster's old friend Hjalmar Schacht as
minister of economics.
loc905-7:
Foster was stunned by his brother's suggestion that Sullivan & Cromwell
quit Germany. Many of his clients with interests there, including not
just banks but corporations like Standard Oil and General Electric,
wished Sullivan & Cromwell to remain active regardless of political
conditions.
loc938-40:
At least one other senior partner at Sullivan & Cromwell, Eustace
Seligman, was equally disturbed. In October 1939, six weeks after the
Nazi invasion of Poland, he took the extraordinary step of sending
Foster a formal memorandum disavowing what his old friend was saying
about Nazism
.... snip ...
Not just Dulles, June1940, Germany had a victory celebration at the NYC
Waldorf-Astoria with major industrialists. Lots of them were there to
hear how to do business with the Nazis (and circumvent the neutrality
laws)
http://www.amazon.com/Man-Called-Intrepid-Incredible-Narrati ve-ebook/dp/B00V9QVE5O/
loc1925-29:
One prominent figure at the German victory celebration was Torkild
Rieber, of Texaco, whose tankers eluded the British blockade. The
company had already been warned, at Roosevelt's instigation, about
violations of the Neutrality Law. But Rieber had set up an elaborate
scheme for shipping oil and petroleum products through neutral ports in
South America. With the Germans now preparing to turn the English
Channel into what Churchill thought would become "a river of blood,"
other industrialists were eager to learn from Texaco how to do more
business with Hitler.
.... snip ...
Later 5000 industrialists from across the US had conference (also) at
NYC Waldof-Astoria and in part because they had gotten such bad
reputation for the depression and supporting Nazi Germany, they approved
a major propaganda campaign to equate capitalism with Christianity
https://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-God-Corporate-ebook/ dp/B00PWX7R56/
part of the result by the early 50s was adding "in god we trust" to
money and "under god" to the pledge of allegiance.
Fron the law of unintended consequences, when the US 1943 Strategic
Bombing program needed industry and military target locations in
Germany, they got the information from wallstreet (having funded and
developed the projects).
military-industrial(-congressional) complex posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#military.industrial .complex
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369389 is a reply to message #369386] |
Fri, 22 June 2018 22:43 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 21:54:14 -0400, Richard Thiebaud
<thiebauddick2@aol.com> wrote:
> On 06/22/2018 08:08 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:44:15 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:41:40 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:54:24 GMT, usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 10:34:53 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 6:44:01 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >>>>> You wouldn't expect unbiased info from someone who was actually there in
>>>> >>>>> the trenches. I think historians believe it takes a generation or so for
>>>> >>>>> unbiased history to be possible.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> When it comes to history, how does one identify 'bias' and separate
>>>> >>>> it out from fact?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> For instance, there remains great debate over FDR, his wife, his
>>>> >>>> handling of the Depression and the New Deal, and his handling of
>>>> >>>> WW II. Back then, many conservatives hated him, and indeed, many
>>>> >>>> hate him and his policies to this day.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> His wife was also quite controversial. NBC for a while had on
>>>> >>>> old broadcasts of Meet the Press--they had Nixon, Martin Luther
>>>> >>>> King, and Eleanor Roosevelt, among other historical figures.
>>>> >>>> Fascinating!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> ER said something I didn't like: in response to a question, she
>>>> >>>> denied being an elder statesman and denied being a politician. In
>>>> >>>> fact she was both and very much so. Even if she personally running
>>>> >>>> for office or held a policy position, she was most certainly active
>>>> >>>> behind the scenes and maintained a lot of influence in her party.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Martin Luther King did a fantastic job in response to hostile
>>>> >>>> questioning. Several guys kept challenging him along the lines
>>>> >>>> of "don't blacks have enough now? Aren't you going too far?"
>>>> >>>> King maintained he sought equal rights, not just a few rights.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Nixon was sad to watch. His appearance was post Watergate.
>>>> >>>> Curiously, in light of today's events, he said he wished he
>>>> >>>> could've pardoned his top aides but it would've looked bad.
>>>> >>>> He also made an excellent political analysis of the ongoing
>>>> >>>> races, and everything he predicted in the broadcast came true.
>>>> >>>> What a waste of talent.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Nixon was a treasonous war criminal who illegally conspired with South
>>>> >>> Vietnamese officials to prolong the war for his political benefit in 1968,
>>>> >>> resulting in the needless death of thousands of young American men,
>>>> >>> along with the waste of billions of dollars and the loss of some standing
>>>> >>> around the world as it was revealed what a disaster Vietnam had become.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Yeah, and Ford pardoned him to help America heal. I consider him
>>>> >> really dumb for doing that. And I do believe Noxon, and his VP, along
>>>> >> with his cabinet, are criminals.
>>>> >
>>>> > Not dumb, a traitor. Justice denied is no justice at all.
>>>>
>>>> The Constitution defines treason rather narrowly. What particular
>>>> provision did Nixon violate?
>>>
>>> Ford.
>>> Sold justice for personal gain.
>>> Traitor to his country and our system of government.
>>
>> So where, exactly, in the definition of "treason" in the Constitution,
>> is "sold justice for personal gain" listed?
>>
>>
> Google "constitution treason".
<plonk>
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| Re: meanwhile in eastern Asia, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369400 is a reply to message #369358] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 03:06 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2018-06-22, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 8:11:38 PM UTC-4, John Levine wrote:
>
>> If Nixon had been able to hang on longer he'd probably have passed
>> single payer healthcare, too. He was a very frustrating character,
>> totally without morals who did a lot of bad stuff and a modest amount
>> of good stuff.
>
> Nixon's biographer Stephen Ambrose started off his research
> expecting to write a hatchet job on Nixon. Ambrose didn't like
> Nixon. However, as Ambrose got into it, he found out that the
> story of Nixon was complex with various parts. It turned out
> some accusations against Nixon from the 1950s were not true,
> and some of Nixon's critiques were true.
>
> Ambrose ended up writing a three volume set. Excellent, balanced
> work--tells both the good and the bad.
>
> During his presidency, Nixon did do some good things. One he
> wanted kept secret, and that was facilitating school desegregation
> in the South as painlessly as possible. Nixon worked hard to make
> that happen--he ordered that advocates for both sides meet and
> work out some sort of agreement alongside a government mediator.
> They were warned that if they failed to agree, the government
> would impose a drastic solution nobody would like. Nixon's
> plan worked.
>
> Nixon also felt it was important blacks have more job opportunities
> and privately pushed corporations to do more hiring.
>
> The EPA and Amtrak were created under his watch. He could've
> killed them if he really wanted to.
>
> What is sad about Nixon is that he was a brilliant politician.
> He could've accomplished a very great deal and have been one of
> our best presidents. But he allowed his dark side to take over.
> Despite his landslide win in 1972, he went nuts and hired the
> plumbers which was his downfall.
>
> Even with Nixon's dark side, I think now I'd rather have him
> back in office than Trump. I think Nixon, in his own way,
> still wanted to have a better country.
>
>
++
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369401 is a reply to message #369359] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 03:14 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2018-06-22, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:54:19 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
>
>> Communism, in Vietnam, in Cuba, in China, in Russia has been a horrifying and
>> frightful system of tyranny. We should, properly, react to it as we do to
>> Nazism.
>
> Yes and no.
>
> Yes, communism is a brutal form of government. BUT, in choosing
> to fight it, one must look hard at what the alternatives are in
> the particular situation.
>
> In Cuba, the US rejected Castro. He wasn't particularly nice to
> his people. However, his predecessor, Batista, was just as bad
> and probably worse.
>
>
In Vietnam, US attitudes were fixed in August 1945, after the Japanese surrender,
the US asked the Japanese occupation forces to remain until the French could return
so the Communists would not just take over.
(As an asside, the Foreign legion units that were sent in were largely made up
of Frenchmen who had served in the German forces in WWII)
>
>
>
>>
>> I wish the United States could have successfully defended South Vietnam against
>> Communist aggression without sending any American boys to fight there. However,
>> I can't think of a way they could have done this.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369403 is a reply to message #369376] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 03:22 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2018-06-23, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 17:52:50 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <1442455386.551354357.297902.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> would likely still be a very weak economy.
>>>
>>> Exactly! And we wouldn't be flooded with so much cheap junk.
>>
>> I doubt it. European countries were already switching recognition
>> from Taiwan to the mainland so the only difference would be where the
>> greater trade ties were.
>
> Except that Europe doesn't have an IBM to teach them how to make
> industry-leading computers or an Intel to teach them how to make
> industry-leading microprocessors and on and on.
>
> They're kicking our butt because we taught them how to do it.
>
I don't think that IBM or _intel_ was involved in computers when
the vital decisions were made.
The British could have dominated the business, except that they made
the work on breaking the German codes during WWII a secret.
LEO was a working model that would be viable today.
It goes on and on.
cheap junk, Americans vote with their wallets. We complain
>> about cheap Chinese junk, but given a choice between a cheap Chinese
>> product and a slightly more expensive American made one, we'll pick
>> the cheap one every time? Remember when Walmart said "Made in the
>> USA"? Probably not.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369404 is a reply to message #369376] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 03:45 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 20:06:15 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> Except that Europe doesn't have an IBM to teach them how to make
> industry-leading computers or an Intel to teach them how to make
> industry-leading microprocessors and on and on.
It does have an ARM to teach you how to make industry leading
microprocessors and an Airbus to teach you how to make industry leading
aircraft and Germany to teach you how to make industry leading cars and let
us not forget Belgium to teach us all about beer and chocolate.
> They're kicking our butt because we taught them how to do it.
Yeah, right. In reality Asia is kicking everyone's butts for that
reason - they learned and improved on what they learned.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369405 is a reply to message #369369] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 03:38 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
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On 22 Jun 2018 21:43:44 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> And it's not the first time. Back in the '60s, "Made in Japan" was
> a joke. The Japanese improved their quality (and increased their
> prices) so the supply of cheap junk moved to Korea. When Korean
> goods started improving, supply of cheap junk shifted to China.
It makes me wonder who's next, because what usually goes along
with the cheap junk is a slice of quality manufacturing, usually supplying
parts to the previous junk supplier for making their quality products. This
underpins the move to quality in the junk supplier.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369410 is a reply to message #369403] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 05:15 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On 23 Jun 2018 07:22:08 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:
> The British could have dominated the business, except that they made
It is a common British lament that they invent everything and then
fail to follow through so leaving it to someone else to make a decent
product[1]. There is some justification in this - Frank Whittle's jet
engines being a classic example, almost dead in the water until the
Americans heard about it and wanted in - months late to the party they still
had a working aircraft in production two years ahead of the British.
[1] Part of the genius behind ARM is that they seem to have known and taken
advantage of this trait and deliberately left it to others to do the follow
through as part of their business model.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369412 is a reply to message #369348] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 07:04 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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<mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> [their descendants] formed
> the main opposition to the US invasion in 1812.
>
The Loyalists are largely glossed over in most US histories. I have been
reading a bit about them and feel more sympathy than I did. A lot of them
were wealthy landowners who feared (rightly) that the'd lose their
property, but many were just average people. The fact that they were
persecuted here before they were driven out is ignored.
--
Pete
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369413 is a reply to message #369405] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 07:04 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 22 Jun 2018 21:43:44 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> And it's not the first time. Back in the '60s, "Made in Japan" was
>> a joke. The Japanese improved their quality (and increased their
>> prices) so the supply of cheap junk moved to Korea. When Korean
>> goods started improving, supply of cheap junk shifted to China.
>
> It makes me wonder who's next, because what usually goes along
> with the cheap junk is a slice of quality manufacturing, usually supplying
> parts to the previous junk supplier for making their quality products. This
> underpins the move to quality in the junk supplier.
>
We're running out of places. Bangladesh now seems to produce a lot of
clothing, of not-too-bad quality. That's about it for the underdeveloped
areas in Asia. I guess Africa is next. This is a good thing, raising
standards of living wherever it spreads, although the benefits are uneven.
--
Pete
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369414 is a reply to message #369410] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 07:04 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 23 Jun 2018 07:22:08 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> The British could have dominated the business, except that they made
>
> It is a common British lament that they invent everything and then
> fail to follow through so leaving it to someone else to make a decent
> product[1]. There is some justification in this - Frank Whittle's jet
> engines being a classic example, almost dead in the water until the
> Americans heard about it and wanted in - months late to the party they still
> had a working aircraft in production two years ahead of the British.
>
> [1] Part of the genius behind ARM is that they seem to have known and taken
> advantage of this trait and deliberately left it to others to do the follow
> through as part of their business model.
>
Is it possible that the problem in Britain is that personal contacts and
status matter more than in the US? Here it seems like anybody with anything
resembling a good idea can get financing to start a company.
--
Pete
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369417 is a reply to message #369410] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 07:34 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 23/06/2018 10:15, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 23 Jun 2018 07:22:08 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> The British could have dominated the business, except that they made
>
> It is a common British lament that they invent everything and then
> fail to follow through so leaving it to someone else to make a decent
> product[1]. There is some justification in this - Frank Whittle's jet
> engines being a classic example, almost dead in the water until the
> Americans heard about it and wanted in - months late to the party they still
> had a working aircraft in production two years ahead of the British.
>
> [1] Part of the genius behind ARM is that they seem to have known and taken
> advantage of this trait and deliberately left it to others to do the follow
> through as part of their business model.
>
Brit is hamstrung by the monarchy and its impled multi-layer pecking
order.
This was most noticeable to me in 1985 when I was lucky enough to get
two weeks in Los Angeles as part of my then job.
The Yanks thrive in their own country whereas we Brits are
tolerated in someone else's country.
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369418 is a reply to message #369413] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 07:36 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 23/06/2018 12:04, Peter Flass wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 22 Jun 2018 21:43:44 GMT
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> And it's not the first time. Back in the '60s, "Made in Japan" was
>>> a joke. The Japanese improved their quality (and increased their
>>> prices) so the supply of cheap junk moved to Korea. When Korean
>>> goods started improving, supply of cheap junk shifted to China.
>>
>> It makes me wonder who's next, because what usually goes along
>> with the cheap junk is a slice of quality manufacturing, usually supplying
>> parts to the previous junk supplier for making their quality products. This
>> underpins the move to quality in the junk supplier.
>>
>
> We're running out of places. Bangladesh now seems to produce a lot of
> clothing, of not-too-bad quality. That's about it for the underdeveloped
> areas in Asia. I guess Africa is next. This is a good thing, raising
> standards of living wherever it spreads, although the benefits are uneven.
>
It could come around again for Brit because going by the state of the
roads, we are now a 3rd World nation.
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369419 is a reply to message #369414] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 07:38 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 23/06/2018 12:04, Peter Flass wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 23 Jun 2018 07:22:08 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The British could have dominated the business, except that they made
>>
>> It is a common British lament that they invent everything and then
>> fail to follow through so leaving it to someone else to make a decent
>> product[1]. There is some justification in this - Frank Whittle's jet
>> engines being a classic example, almost dead in the water until the
>> Americans heard about it and wanted in - months late to the party they still
>> had a working aircraft in production two years ahead of the British.
>>
>> [1] Part of the genius behind ARM is that they seem to have known and taken
>> advantage of this trait and deliberately left it to others to do the follow
>> through as part of their business model.
>>
>
> Is it possible that the problem in Britain is that personal contacts and
> status matter more than in the US? Here it seems like anybody with anything
> resembling a good idea can get financing to start a company.
>
Republicans in Brit are the equal of everybody, but royalists are at the
very bottom of a laminated dung heap where, if you accept the "honour"
of a British Empire Medal (BEM), you accept that you are a long, long
way down in the pecking order.
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| Re: the mysterious east, was tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369422 is a reply to message #369414] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 10:34 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 23 Jun 2018 07:22:08 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The British could have dominated the business, except that they made
>>
>> It is a common British lament that they invent everything and then
>> fail to follow through so leaving it to someone else to make a decent
>> product[1]. There is some justification in this - Frank Whittle's jet
>> engines being a classic example, almost dead in the water until the
>> Americans heard about it and wanted in - months late to the party they still
>> had a working aircraft in production two years ahead of the British.
>>
>> [1] Part of the genius behind ARM is that they seem to have known and taken
>> advantage of this trait and deliberately left it to others to do the follow
>> through as part of their business model.
>
> Is it possible that the problem in Britain is that personal contacts and
> status matter more than in the US? Here it seems like anybody with anything
> resembling a good idea can get financing to start a company.
Perhaps, but I think not.
Having worked at Bell Labs, I saw first hand how poorly equipped
scientists are to bring a product to market.
You need a combination of scientists and marketing to make lots of
money. For example, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs.
As much as I despise marketing I admit it's a necessary ingredient.
Not sure why Britain would come up short in the marketing department but
American marketing is certainly world class. (The bastards.)
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft [message #369423 is a reply to message #369377] |
Sat, 23 June 2018 10:38 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:44:15 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 09:41:40 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:54:24 GMT, usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 10:34:53 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>> >>>On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 6:44:01 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >>>> You wouldn't expect unbiased info from someone who was actually there in
>>>> >>>> the trenches. I think historians believe it takes a generation or so for
>>>> >>>> unbiased history to be possible.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>When it comes to history, how does one identify 'bias' and separate
>>>> >>>it out from fact?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>For instance, there remains great debate over FDR, his wife, his
>>>> >>>handling of the Depression and the New Deal, and his handling of
>>>> >>>WW II. Back then, many conservatives hated him, and indeed, many
>>>> >>>hate him and his policies to this day.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>His wife was also quite controversial. NBC for a while had on
>>>> >>>old broadcasts of Meet the Press--they had Nixon, Martin Luther
>>>> >>>King, and Eleanor Roosevelt, among other historical figures.
>>>> >>>Fascinating!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>ER said something I didn't like: in response to a question, she
>>>> >>>denied being an elder statesman and denied being a politician. In
>>>> >>>fact she was both and very much so. Even if she personally running
>>>> >>>for office or held a policy position, she was most certainly active
>>>> >>>behind the scenes and maintained a lot of influence in her party.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Martin Luther King did a fantastic job in response to hostile
>>>> >>>questioning. Several guys kept challenging him along the lines
>>>> >>>of "don't blacks have enough now? Aren't you going too far?"
>>>> >>>King maintained he sought equal rights, not just a few rights.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Nixon was sad to watch. His appearance was post Watergate.
>>>> >>>Curiously, in light of today's events, he said he wished he
>>>> >>>could've pardoned his top aides but it would've looked bad.
>>>> >>>He also made an excellent political analysis of the ongoing
>>>> >>>races, and everything he predicted in the broadcast came true.
>>>> >>>What a waste of talent.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Nixon was a treasonous war criminal who illegally conspired with South
>>>> >>Vietnamese officials to prolong the war for his political benefit in 1968,
>>>> >>resulting in the needless death of thousands of young American men,
>>>> >>along with the waste of billions of dollars and the loss of some standing
>>>> >>around the world as it was revealed what a disaster Vietnam had become.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yeah, and Ford pardoned him to help America heal. I consider him
>>>> > really dumb for doing that. And I do believe Noxon, and his VP, along
>>>> > with his cabinet, are criminals.
>>>>
>>>> Not dumb, a traitor. Justice denied is no justice at all.
>>>
>>> The Constitution defines treason rather narrowly. What particular
>>> provision did Nixon violate?
>>
>> Ford.
>> Sold justice for personal gain.
>> Traitor to his country and our system of government.
>
> So where, exactly, in the definition of "treason" in the Constitution,
> is "sold justice for personal gain" listed?
Split hairs all you like.
He's still a nasty piece of work that sold out his country for his own
profit.
A traitor to everything this country SHOULD stand for.
Defend his actions to show us all how low you can go.
--
Dan Espen
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