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Have to replace my dying MDD [message #365041] Mon, 12 March 2018 10:50 Go to next message
Jörg Duurkoop is currently offline  Jörg Duurkoop
Messages: 47
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Member
Hi,

My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just
another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP
card again and waiting for another failing power supply.

I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good
price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio
Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using
my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and
I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.

I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can
simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a
nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e
SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in
the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?

The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the
liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth
transition. Thank you.

Best regards, Jörg.

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #365042 is a reply to message #365041] Mon, 12 March 2018 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jason Mayfield-Lewis is currently offline  Jason Mayfield-Lewis
Messages: 1
Registered: March 2018
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Junior Member
On 12 Mar 2018 14:50, "Jörg Duurkoop" <yawgie@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just
another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP
card again and waiting for another failing power supply.

I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good
price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio
Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using
my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and
I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.

I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can
simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a
nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e
SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in
the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?

The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the
liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth
transition. Thank you.

Best regards, Jörg.

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When you say 'top model', I hope you're not referring to the liquid cooled
quad 2.5 PCI-E or dual 2.7 PCI-X model, they certainly aren't reliable
(unless you're a fan of working on closed loop liquid cooling systems) -
having said that, mine is still going 5 years or so after I rebuilt it with
all-new pipework and anti-corrosion car coolant but it's not used much and
I definitely wouldn't trust one without a known history.

Jason

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #365413 is a reply to message #365041] Tue, 20 March 2018 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jörg Duurkoop is currently offline  Jörg Duurkoop
Messages: 47
Registered: November 2012
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Member
Thank you Jason for your comment.

I avoided the liquid cooled G5s and found a great deal, about 200 bucks
(155 €) for 3 G5s and 3 Cinema displays plus 1 Cinema display power supply.
One of them is a humble 1.8 G5 so I will have a scanning station because
that one still can use normal PCI cards and will get my old Adaptec SCSI
card.

My main machine is a 2 Ghz dual core of the last edition. The 3rd G5 is a
2.3 DP which I keep as a donor for the 1.8 and for other parts. It's not
that much faster than my DP MDD but very quiet and has optical audio out so
I can use it as a music server without the darn M-Audio Revolution card.

I still have some questions:

1. On the Every Mac site they state that the dual core machines don't need
a PRAM battery but in the booklet it says that there is a battery inside.

2. Can I use the graphic display card of my G4 MDD in the 1.8 machine as is
or do I need the DVI to ADC adapter? I think the reason all my MDDs died
was the fact that I used 4 internal HDs and 2 displays of which one sucked
a lot of extra power via the ADC connector. That ADC was a bad idea I guess.

Thank you for your comments,

Best regards, Jörg.

Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
>
> Hi,
>
> My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just
> another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP
> card again and waiting for another failing power supply.
>
> I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good
> price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio
> Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using
> my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and
> I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.
>
> I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can
> simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a
> nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e
> SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in
> the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?
>
> The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the
> liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth
> transition. Thank you.
>
> Best regards, Jörg.
>

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #365529 is a reply to message #365041] Thu, 22 March 2018 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jörg Duurkoop is currently offline  Jörg Duurkoop
Messages: 47
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Member
The 1.8 Ghz G5 has no PCI slots, only PCIe but a ADC port on its video
card. But my studio display connected to it is very dim and the power light
is blinking 3 times every 3 seconds. So I need the DVI to ADC converter?

That machine now also refuses to boot from a perfect verified volume I
created with CCC. So I decided to change the battery. It's not the normal
half size AA type but a button cell. I can't figure out how to replace it.
Can anybody here tell me how to do it w/o wrecking the holder?

I use the slow G5 with a Freecom Firewire dock to clone my original HDs
from the dead G4 to use in my main G5, the latest edition of the 2 Ghz DP
G5 but I need 2 functioning internal HDs to do that. Any suggestions? Thank
you.

Best regards, Jörg.


Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
>
> Hi,
>
> My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just
> another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP
> card again and waiting for another failing power supply.
>
> I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good
> price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio
> Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using
> my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and
> I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.
>
> I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can
> simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a
> nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e
> SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in
> the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?
>
> The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the
> liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth
> transition. Thank you.
>
> Best regards, Jörg.
>

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #366422 is a reply to message #365041] Tue, 17 April 2018 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jörg Duurkoop is currently offline  Jörg Duurkoop
Messages: 47
Registered: November 2012
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Member
Hi again,

I got a good deal on the last edition of the G5 quadcore and it seems
solid. The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt
command when starting up. Normally you get the choice of startup disks
available but now the G5 just ignores the Alt key and starts from the disk
chosen in the system prefs. Can be a major PITA under certain circumstances.

Anybody any idea what causes this? I replaced the PRAM battery although
Everymac.com says "doesn't apply".

TIA for your valuable comments.

Jörg from the Netherlands.



Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
>
> Hi,
>
> My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just
> another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP
> card again and waiting for another failing power supply.
>
> I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good
> price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio
> Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using
> my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and
> I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.
>
> I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can
> simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a
> nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e
> SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in
> the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?
>
> The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the
> liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth
> transition. Thank you.
>
> Best regards, Jörg.
>

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #366429 is a reply to message #366422] Tue, 17 April 2018 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Valter Prahlad is currently offline  Valter Prahlad
Messages: 87
Registered: September 2012
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Member
Il giorno 17/04/18 23:24, "Jörg Duurkoop" ha scritto:

> The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt
> command when starting up.

Are you using a non-Apple keyboard?
If so, try a different keyboard.

USB keyboards should be standard, but I noticed some of them do not send the
Alt /Option key during startup.


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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #366430 is a reply to message #366422] Tue, 17 April 2018 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
If, by chance, you’re using a flat modern USB keyboard, that might be it. I had to keep an old style USB keyboard around to use with older Macs when I had to use the startup keys.

On Apr 17, 2018, at 2:24 PM, Jörg Duurkoop <yawgie@gmail.com<mailto:yawgie@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi again,

I got a good deal on the last edition of the G5 quadcore and it seems solid. The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt command when starting up. Normally you get the choice of startup disks available but now the G5 just ignores the Alt key and starts from the disk chosen in the system prefs. Can be a major PITA under certain circumstances.

Anybody any idea what causes this? I replaced the PRAM battery although Everymac.com<http://Everymac.com> says "doesn't apply".

TIA for your valuable comments.

Jörg from the Netherlands.



Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
Hi,

My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP card again and waiting for another failing power supply.

I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.

I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?

The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth transition. Thank you.

Best regards, Jörg.

--
--
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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #366431 is a reply to message #366422] Wed, 18 April 2018 00:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DLC is currently offline  DLC
Messages: 21
Registered: September 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Hello J org,
Glad you moved from a G4 to G5 - at first thought, if you have a spare
keyboard, swap it out to make sure it is not a keyboard issue, after that
plug the keyboard into a fresh USB port.
Are you using the old OS that was on the HDs when they were housed in the
G4, or did you put a fresh OS on the G5 (Leopard, for ex.). Finally, see if
your G5 has had the latest firmware installed.
These are just basic lcd (lowest common denominator) trouble-shooting items
that come to mind; after this its time to terminal.
Regards,
Dana


On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Jörg Duurkoop <yawgie@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi again,
>
> I got a good deal on the last edition of the G5 quadcore and it seems
> solid. The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt
> command when starting up. Normally you get the choice of startup disks
> available but now the G5 just ignores the Alt key and starts from the disk
> chosen in the system prefs. Can be a major PITA under certain circumstances.
>
> Anybody any idea what causes this? I replaced the PRAM battery although
> Everymac.com says "doesn't apply".
>
> TIA for your valuable comments.
>
> Jörg from the Netherlands.
>
>
>
> Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying
>> just another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz
>> DP card again and waiting for another failing power supply.
>>
>> I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good
>> price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio
>> Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using
>> my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and
>> I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.
>>
>> I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can
>> simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a
>> nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e
>> SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in
>> the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?
>>
>> The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the
>> liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth
>> transition. Thank you.
>>
>> Best regards, Jörg.
>>
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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #366462 is a reply to message #365041] Wed, 18 April 2018 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jörg Duurkoop is currently offline  Jörg Duurkoop
Messages: 47
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Member
Hi Kris & everybody,

I actually use an original Apple aluminum keyboard that was sold together
with the later G5s I assume. On the "Option" key it says "alt" and on the
Dutch "wis" key it says "delete". So which is it? English, Aussie,
Canadian? Not US I assume ...

Yes, I transplanted my G4 disks running Tiger to my G5. Installed some
G5-specific tools, I'm now an official Apple developer and got them. I like
the Processor tool, had it's predecessor on my G4. You can switch off & on
the cores and see how hard they work. Amazing to see that Gmail and
Facebook are real hogs. My quad is running all-out just to retrieve my mail
or send messages on FB using TenFourFox. Again my heartfelt kudos for
Cameron, you are a champion my man.

And the Temperature Monitor. This thingie shows the temp at 11 different
spots in the Mac. Amazing. The pinnacle of Apple design IMO.

So how do I get the option back to chose a different startup disk? Don't
tell me to "upgrade" to Leopard. I saw it on another G5 and hated it. Too
dark, too obscure. It takes away a lot of control from the user, dumbing
him down as it were. At least my first impression. A great feature was that
I could clone my running startup disk to another drive. CCC on Tiger can't
do that.

Another issue is that I cannot see my USB-sticks on the desktop anymore.
Worked fine first but now I only see the SDs on my hubs.

I hope to hear of some magick to get this basic startup feature back. In
the past it saved my day many times.

BTW, anything I should keep an eye on this machine? It's the latest edition
of the G5, the revised fluid-cooled quadcore. It has seen some years of
troublefree service and all the cores have similar temps, core 3 and 4
running a bit warmer by 2 to 5 centigrades. Max. temp I reached yet was 70
centigrades on core 4.

TIA for your helpful comments.

Kind regards, Jörg.

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #366464 is a reply to message #366462] Wed, 18 April 2018 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member

On Apr 18, 2018, at 2:39 PM, Jörg Duurkoop <yawgie@gmail.com<mailto:yawgie@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Kris & everybody,

I actually use an original Apple aluminum keyboard that was sold together with the later G5s I assume. On the "Option" key it says "alt" and on the Dutch "wis" key it says "delete". So which is it? English, Aussie, Canadian? Not US I assume …

That’s the keyboard thing I was talking about. Kris is right, this keyboard post-dates the G5’s, I’m pretty sure; in fact it postdates the very first Intel iMacs, as that was the machine on which I discovered the ‘no startup keys’ issue.

You’ll need to source an older USB keyboard for the times you need to apply startup keys.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD [message #367151 is a reply to message #366464] Thu, 19 April 2018 02:54 Go to previous message
Mac User #330250 is currently offline  Mac User #330250
Messages: 83
Registered: August 2012
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Hi!

On 2018-04-19, 00:15, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> That’s the keyboard thing I was talking about. Kris is right, this keyboard
> post-dates the G5’s, I’m pretty sure; in fact it postdates the very first Intel
> iMacs, as that was the machine on which I discovered the ‘no startup keys’ issue.
>
> You’ll need to source an older USB keyboard for the times you need to apply
> startup keys.

I have the strong impression that Apple went from an almost 100%
standard conform keyboard to a 100% Apple-specific in-house develpment.
At the beginning of the Millennium (from around 2000 to around 2006) the
Apple keyboards were manufactured by Mitsumi, and they were _real_ PC
keyboards with different names on the keys. With the one exception of
the Eject key, which was Apple-specific.

After that they changed everything (2007 came the new Apple Keyboard,
A1243).

I assume that Power Macs don't understand the newer keyboards correctly
and that Apple didn't test Open Firmware compatibility. They only tested
Mac OS X compatibility and since it worked there, they didn't bother any
further compatibility improvement.

Like Bruce and others already mentioned, my advice is also to either get
an older Apple keyboard, OR—and this might come as a surprise—to get a
standard PC USB keyboard instead. It should work 100%, with the only
exception that the key names will be switched (and the lack of an eject
key). In other words: Ctrl, Alt, Win i.e. Ctrl, Opt, Command (Apple-key)
will be switched.

If you look at the Wikipedia article "Apple Keyboard" and at the picture
of the Apple Pro Keyboard (M7803), you'll see that the sequence in the
lower left corner is 1. Ctrl, 2. Alt, 3. Apple/Command. Now look at a
standard PC/Windows keyboard and notice that there is another sequence:
1. Ctrl, 2. Win, 3. Alt.

If my memory is correct, then the keys are exactly the same, only the
label on the keys are changed. Therefore the Open Firmware and Mac OS X
will act on the second key, which is the Windows-key on a PC keyboard,
as if the Alt/Option key was pressed. And also for the third key, the
Apple/Command key, it will be the Alt key on a PC keyboard.

I used a PC keyboard on a Power Mac (G3, G4, G5) several times and it
worked like this, including the startup selection. All I had to do was
to hold the Windows key instead of the Option/Alt key...
Thinking of it, that's the only sick part: start a Mac and hold the
Windows key :-)


For completeness: those two Apple keyboards were designed for Power Macs:
1. Apple Pro Keyboard (M7803), from 2000
2. Apple Keyboard (A1048), from 2003

All other keyboards are either too old or too new for Power Macs.

For my purposes those two PC keyboards did the job:
* Dell USB keyboard KB212
* Logitech USB keyboard K120
but any other stardard USB keyboard will work as well.

When using a PC keyboard on a Power Mac, just remember:
* Win (Windows Logo) = Option/Alt
* Alt = Command/"Apple key" (Apple logo)
* look at the original Apple keyboard labels for all other keys. E.g. on
the german keyboard @ is on AltGr+L on an Apple keyboard, but on AltGr+Q
on a Windows keyboard. However, even when using the PC/Windows keyboard,
on a Mac it will always be AltGr+L...
* No eject key (some key combinations are affected)

Since the eject key is missing, shutdown by holding keys
Ctrt+Alt+Cmd+Eject won't work. I am unsure, but maybe this was also
possible with Ctrl+Alt+Cmd+F12...


I hope to have helped with this information,
Mac User #330250

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