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1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #362915] Thu, 08 February 2018 19:45 Go to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.

The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
(sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.

The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #362924 is a reply to message #362915] Thu, 08 February 2018 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: mentificium

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 4:45:43 PM UTC-8, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
> [...]
It would now be possible to install AI sentinels that
monitor the entire world and nearby parsecs of space
for any desired phenomena, such as earthquakes; asteroids;
airplane crashes; military conflicts; floods, etc.

http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Ghost -- ghost.pl AI in Perl --

is the free-of-charge, open-source AI Mind suitable for
installation anywhere as an AI sentinel watching for events.

http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=307824.307853 -- MindForth --

is the same AI program in Forth for autonomous humanoid robots.

http://ai.neocities.org/MsIeAi.html -- is the same AI Mind --

in tutorial JavaScript so that Netizens may interact with the
concept-based artificial intelligence and decide whether they
would like to work with robot MindForth or webserver ghost.pl AI.

https://github.com/BuildingXwithJS/proposals/issues/22 -- is the

Next Big Thing in JavaScript artificial intelligence as a topic
for a video or livestream on Building Things With JavaScript.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #362938 is a reply to message #362915] Fri, 09 February 2018 02:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 16:45:42 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>
> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>
> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>
>

A satellite designed to do that some decades ago... found x-ray
burster stars. It almost caused a big panic and a war.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #362944 is a reply to message #362938] Fri, 09 February 2018 04:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-02-09, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 16:45:42 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>
>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>
>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>
>>
>
> A satellite designed to do that some decades ago... found x-ray
> burster stars. It almost caused a big panic and a war.

There was a panic as well with the radar once, when the moon rose,
was that right.?


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #362952 is a reply to message #362944] Fri, 09 February 2018 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 9 Feb 2018 09:03:10 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:

> On 2018-02-09, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 16:45:42 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>
>>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>>
>>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>>
>>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>>
>>>
>>
>> A satellite designed to do that some decades ago... found x-ray
>> burster stars. It almost caused a big panic and a war.
>
> There was a panic as well with the radar once, when the moon rose,
> was that right.?

Yeah, they weren't expecting it to get return from the Moon.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #362960 is a reply to message #362952] Fri, 09 February 2018 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bert is currently offline  bert
Messages: 56
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On Friday, 9 February 2018 10:01:21 UTC, J. Clarke wrote:
> On 9 Feb 2018 09:03:10 GMT, mau...@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2018-02-09, JimP <sol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There was a panic as well with the radar once, when the moon rose,
>> was that right.?
>
> Yeah, they weren't expecting it to get return from the Moon.

I thought when I heard about it that the problem had been with
wraparound. The echo time modulo its supposed maximum possible
value put the echoing object somewhere above Siberia.
--
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #362970 is a reply to message #362944] Fri, 09 February 2018 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 9 Feb 2018 09:03:10 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:

> On 2018-02-09, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 16:45:42 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>
>>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>>
>>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>>
>>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>>
>>>
>>
>> A satellite designed to do that some decades ago... found x-ray
>> burster stars. It almost caused a big panic and a war.
>
> There was a panic as well with the radar once, when the moon rose,
> was that right.?

Yes the DEW line was supposed to detect Soviet missles coming over the
North pole area... instead it spotted the moon rising over the
horizon.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363049 is a reply to message #362915] Fri, 09 February 2018 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>
> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>
> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>

There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.

--
Pete
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363064 is a reply to message #363049] Sat, 10 February 2018 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-02-09, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>
>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>
>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>
>
> There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
> broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
> broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
> about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.
>

Variation on Dr, Strangelove?.

I lost my SW radio, but there used to be many, many very peculiar
broadcasts

The was a story of a Catholic couple in Ireland that had trouble
conceiving children, so the local parish priest was going to Rome,
and promised that he would light a candle in a certain church there,
and that wwould do the trick.

The priest was sent on to the Missions and got home to his Irish
prish years after, so went to see the couple, the back door was
hanging off the hinges, children everywhere, but no sign of the
husband, Where was he?

"He is gone to Rome to make sure that bloody candle has gone out."


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363087 is a reply to message #363064] Sat, 10 February 2018 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 10 Feb 2018 08:49:33 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:

> On 2018-02-09, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>>
>>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>>
>>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>>
>>
>> There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
>> broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
>> broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
>> about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.
>>
>
> Variation on Dr, Strangelove?.
>
> I lost my SW radio, but there used to be many, many very peculiar
> broadcasts

Numbers stations still broadcast.

> The was a story of a Catholic couple in Ireland that had trouble
> conceiving children, so the local parish priest was going to Rome,
> and promised that he would light a candle in a certain church there,
> and that wwould do the trick.
>
> The priest was sent on to the Missions and got home to his Irish
> prish years after, so went to see the couple, the back door was
> hanging off the hinges, children everywhere, but no sign of the
> husband, Where was he?
>
> "He is gone to Rome to make sure that bloody candle has gone out."

Most likely they figured out to do it.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363120 is a reply to message #363049] Sat, 10 February 2018 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:43:52 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>
> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>
>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>
>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>
>
> There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
> broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
> broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
> about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.

I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
them. :-)

Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
you refer to the time you won a free case of oil as the
"day my ship came in."
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363121 is a reply to message #363120] Sat, 10 February 2018 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-02-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:43:52 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>>
>>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>>
>>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>>
>>
>> There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
>> broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
>> broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
>> about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.
>
> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
> them. :-)
>
> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
> letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*

They say Guantanamo is nice this time of year

--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363122 is a reply to message #363121] Sat, 10 February 2018 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 10 Feb 2018 21:37:38 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:

> On 2018-02-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:43:52 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>>>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>>>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>>>
>>>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>>>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>>>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>>>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>>>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>>>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>>>
>>>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>>>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
>>> broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
>>> broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
>>> about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.
>>
>> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
>> them. :-)
>>
>> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
>> letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>
> They say Guantanamo is nice this time of year

Actually it's nice most of the year (I've been there). Probably not a
good place to be a prisoner . . .

However it's unlikely that that would happen to a US citizen in the
US. More likely you'd have your station confiscated for broadcasting
without a license.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363124 is a reply to message #363120] Sat, 10 February 2018 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:43:52 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>>
>>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>>
>>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>>
>>
>> There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
>> broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
>> broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
>> about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.
>
> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
> them. :-)
>
> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
> letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*

A web site would be funny - just a blank screen with a constantly changing
sequence of numbers.

--
Pete
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363170 is a reply to message #363124] Sun, 11 February 2018 03:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-02-10, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:43:52 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>> In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>>>> a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>>>> was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>>>
>>>> The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>>>> triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>>>> (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>>>> the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>>>> shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>>>> Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>>>
>>>> The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>>>> http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
>>> broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
>>> broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
>>> about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.
>>
>> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
>> them. :-)
>>
>> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
>> letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>
> A web site would be funny - just a blank screen with a constantly changing
> sequence of numbers.
>

Radio better, even one using Morse, you need good power to get
internet



--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363175 is a reply to message #362915] Sun, 11 February 2018 06:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> Talking of which, when number stations started, how was the voice
> generated? Surely they didn't have someone sit there and read them out?

Perhaps a mechanism similar to the "speaking clock" phone service.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363178 is a reply to message #362915] Sun, 11 February 2018 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-02-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
> [22 lines snipped]
>
>> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
>> them. :-)
>>
>> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
>> letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>
> *laugh8 What a marvellous idea!!!
>
> I've a radio amatuer licence - I wonder what the authorities would think
> of a synthesised voice announcing random 5 letter groups?

In the U.S., which I know you aren't here, its illegal for cryptic
coded messages to be sent by ham radio operators.

Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
reading one or two posts.

> Talking of which, when number stations started, how was the voice generated?
> Surely they didn't have someone sit there and read them out? Although
> given the kinds of country that did it, it would surprise me.

My little understanding of it is that now its a computer voice, but
people did it years ago.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363181 is a reply to message #363170] Sun, 11 February 2018 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
<mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-02-10, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:43:52 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>> > In 1963, Western Union, under contract with the US Air Force, installed
>>>> > a nationwide nuclear weapon detonation detection system. If there
>>>> > was an attack, the airforce would be immediately notified.
>>>> >
>>>> > The system worked by having special sensors that would only be
>>>> > triggered by the intense light of a nuclear weapon. Other light
>>>> > (sunlight, lightning, etc) would not affect it. Upon receipt of
>>>> > the blast light, the sensor would send a off signal before the blast
>>>> > shock wave (travels slower) and destroyed the sensor and wires.
>>>> > Areas would have multiple sensors in case one was destroyed.
>>>> >
>>>> > The sensors and warning system is described in the WUTR:
>>>> > http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technica l/western-union-tech-review/17-1/p032.htm
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> There is a story that there is one radio station in Russia (Moscow) that
>>>> broadcasts nothing but a continuous tone. Supposedly, if it ever stops
>>>> broadcasting it will trigger a fail-safe launch on nukes. I read a story
>>>> about this, but later it turned up in several factual contexts.
>>>
>>> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
>>> them. :-)
>>>
>>> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
>>> letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>>
>> A web site would be funny - just a blank screen with a constantly changing
>> sequence of numbers.
>>
>
> Radio better, even one using Morse, you need good power to get
> internet
>

Yes, but to yank the chains of the gov't and conspiracy theorists a web
site is handier, since you don't need a license.

--
Pete
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363182 is a reply to message #363178] Sun, 11 February 2018 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-02-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>> [22 lines snipped]
>>
>>> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
>>> them. :-)
>>>
>>> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
>>> letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>>
>> *laugh8 What a marvellous idea!!!
>>
>> I've a radio amatuer licence - I wonder what the authorities would think
>> of a synthesised voice announcing random 5 letter groups?
>
> In the U.S., which I know you aren't here, its illegal for cryptic
> coded messages to be sent by ham radio operators.
>
> Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
> speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
> reading one or two posts.

Surprised they're still arguing this. Digital packet radio has been around
"forever", based on the AlohaNet. The KA9Q tcp/ip package was developed, as
the name suggests for ham radio.

>
>> Talking of which, when number stations started, how was the voice generated?
>> Surely they didn't have someone sit there and read them out? Although
>> given the kinds of country that did it, it would surprise me.
>
> My little understanding of it is that now its a computer voice, but
> people did it years ago.
>
>



--
Pete
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363183 is a reply to message #363178] Sun, 11 February 2018 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 07:30:27 -0600, JimP wrote:

> On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>> I've a radio amatuer licence - I wonder what the authorities would think
>> of a synthesised voice announcing random 5 letter groups?
>
> In the U.S., which I know you aren't here, its illegal for cryptic coded
> messages to be sent by ham radio operators.

Clause 2.87 of the UK licence forbids use of encryption except under
certain exceptional circumstances. I guess you'd have to prove the groups
were random.

And you still have to broadcast the callsign regularly.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363184 is a reply to message #363181] Sun, 11 February 2018 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-02-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-10, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> sequence of numbers.
>>>
>>
>> Radio better, even one using Morse, you need good power to get
>> internet
>>
>
> Yes, but to yank the chains of the gov't and conspiracy theorists a web
> site is handier, since you don't need a license.
>

I would'nt yank it too much. To charge someone with something in the
States, you need some smidgin of evidence. According to recent
treaties, to extradite someone from the like of .ie, you need
nothing, just a message from someone official in the US.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363186 is a reply to message #363182] Sun, 11 February 2018 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 07:00:56 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-02-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> [22 lines snipped]
>>>
>>>> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
>>>> them. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
>>>> letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>>>
>>> *laugh8 What a marvellous idea!!!
>>>
>>> I've a radio amatuer licence - I wonder what the authorities would think
>>> of a synthesised voice announcing random 5 letter groups?
>>
>> In the U.S., which I know you aren't here, its illegal for cryptic
>> coded messages to be sent by ham radio operators.
>>
>> Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
>> speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
>> reading one or two posts.
>
> Surprised they're still arguing this. Digital packet radio has been around
> "forever", based on the AlohaNet. The KA9Q tcp/ip package was developed, as
> the name suggests for ham radio.

Some ham radio forums just talk and help, other ham radio forums like
to argue over nothing.

They were arguing over FT8, PSK31, etc.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363187 is a reply to message #363183] Sun, 11 February 2018 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer

On 11/02/2018 14:09, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 07:30:27 -0600, JimP wrote:
>
>> On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> I've a radio amatuer licence - I wonder what the authorities would think
>>> of a synthesised voice announcing random 5 letter groups?
>>
>> In the U.S., which I know you aren't here, its illegal for cryptic coded
>> messages to be sent by ham radio operators.
>
> Clause 2.87 of the UK licence forbids use of encryption except under
> certain exceptional circumstances. I guess you'd have to prove the groups
> were random.
>
> And you still have to broadcast the callsign regularly.
>

But the licence does not prohibit encypherment.

For those in the know, Morse is not a code, it is a cypher, and
it was probably Vail, Morse's technician who derived it, and
so it is not Morse Code, but Vail Cypher.

Something was lost in the spirit of amateur radio when the
requirement for new licensees to spend the first year
on Morse (Wrongly called CW which was an improvement
over Logarithmic Decrement) with a limit of 10W.

A lot of recent so-called radio amateurs know nothing
abiut the internals of their rigs, a bit like
so-called computer scientists being completely clueless
about the computer internals and being completely lost
if not using Unix / Linux and C.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363188 is a reply to message #363186] Sun, 11 February 2018 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer

On 11/02/2018 14:44, JimP wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 07:00:56 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-02-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [22 lines snipped]
>>>>
>>>> > I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just loving
>>>> > them. :-)
>>>> >
>>>> > Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having some three
>>>> > letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>>>>
>>>> *laugh8 What a marvellous idea!!!
>>>>
>>>> I've a radio amatuer licence - I wonder what the authorities would think
>>>> of a synthesised voice announcing random 5 letter groups?
>>>
>>> In the U.S., which I know you aren't here, its illegal for cryptic
>>> coded messages to be sent by ham radio operators.
>>>
>>> Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
>>> speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
>>> reading one or two posts.
>>
>> Surprised they're still arguing this. Digital packet radio has been around
>> "forever", based on the AlohaNet. The KA9Q tcp/ip package was developed, as
>> the name suggests for ham radio.
>
> Some ham radio forums just talk and help, other ham radio forums like
> to argue over nothing.
>
> They were arguing over FT8, PSK31, etc.
>

The first and only real digital mode is hand-keyed Morse.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363202 is a reply to message #362915] Sun, 11 February 2018 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 15:00:30 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2018-02-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-02-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [22 lines snipped]
>>>>
>>>> > I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just
>>>> > loving them. :-)
>>>> >
>>>> > Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having
>>>> > some three letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>>>>
>>>> *laugh8 What a marvellous idea!!!
>>>>
>>>> I've a radio amatuer licence - I wonder what the authorities would
>>>> think of a synthesised voice announcing random 5 letter groups?
>>>
>>> In the U.S., which I know you aren't here, its illegal for cryptic
>>> coded messages to be sent by ham radio operators.
>
> Same here. But if it's random, it isn't "cryptic coded". :o)
>
>>>
>>> Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
>>> speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
>>> reading one or two posts.
>>
>> Surprised they're still arguing this.
>
> Radio amateurs are the ultimate barrack-room lawyers.
>
>
Top tip:
Do *not* get involved with uk.radio.amateur or uk.legal

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363214 is a reply to message #363202] Sun, 11 February 2018 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:25:52 -0000 (UTC), "Kerr-Mudd,John"
<notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 15:00:30 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-02-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11 Feb 2018 10:49:36 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2018-02-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > [22 lines snipped]
>>>> >
>>>> >> I love Number Stations. No idea what their purpose is today, just
>>>> >> loving them. :-)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Could put up my own station, announcing random numbers. Having
>>>> >> some three letter agencies wasting their time investigating. *g*
>>>> >
>>>> > *laugh8 What a marvellous idea!!!
>>>> >
>>>> > I've a radio amatuer licence - I wonder what the authorities would
>>>> > think of a synthesised voice announcing random 5 letter groups?
>>>>
>>>> In the U.S., which I know you aren't here, its illegal for cryptic
>>>> coded messages to be sent by ham radio operators.
>>
>> Same here. But if it's random, it isn't "cryptic coded". :o)
>>
>>>>
>>>> Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
>>>> speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
>>>> reading one or two posts.
>>>
>>> Surprised they're still arguing this.
>>
>> Radio amateurs are the ultimate barrack-room lawyers.
>>
>>
> Top tip:
> Do *not* get involved with uk.radio.amateur or uk.legal

It never ceases to amaze me how non-lawyers will argue to death points
that the courts have long since nailed down.
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363249 is a reply to message #363214] Mon, 12 February 2018 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-02-11, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:25:52 -0000 (UTC), "Kerr-Mudd,John"
> <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 15:00:30 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-02-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
>>>> > speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
>>>> > reading one or two posts.
>>>>
>>>> Surprised they're still arguing this.
>>>
>>> Radio amateurs are the ultimate barrack-room lawyers.
>>>
>>>
>> Top tip:
>> Do *not* get involved with uk.radio.amateur or uk.legal
>
> It never ceases to amaze me how non-lawyers will argue to death points
> that the courts have long since nailed down.

or ignore


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363253 is a reply to message #363249] Mon, 12 February 2018 06:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-02-12, mausg@mail.com <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-02-11, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:25:52 -0000 (UTC), "Kerr-Mudd,John"
>> <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 15:00:30 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-02-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
>>>> >> speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
>>>> >> reading one or two posts.
>>>> >
>>>> > Surprised they're still arguing this.
>>>>
>>>> Radio amateurs are the ultimate barrack-room lawyers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Top tip:
>>> Do *not* get involved with uk.radio.amateur or uk.legal
>>
>> It never ceases to amaze me how non-lawyers will argue to death points
>> that the courts have long since nailed down.
>
> or ignore
>
>

Example; here in the Republic, the first official language is Gaelic.
In a case years ago, I suggested to our barrister that he refers to
the Act in question in its Gaelic Version,

"Don't even think of that, if we won on that point, it would put the
whole Irish legal system in doubt,"


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363261 is a reply to message #363253] Mon, 12 February 2018 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 12 Feb 2018 11:25:47 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:

> Example; here in the Republic, the first official language is Gaelic.
> In a case years ago, I suggested to our barrister that he refers to
> the Act in question in its Gaelic Version,
>
> "Don't even think of that, if we won on that point, it would put the
> whole Irish legal system in doubt,"

At that point I would have had a hard time resisting trying to find
a barrister who would go for it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: 1963--nuclear weapon alarm system [message #363284 is a reply to message #363253] Mon, 12 February 2018 14:36 Go to previous message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
<mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-02-12, mausg@mail.com <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-11, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:25:52 -0000 (UTC), "Kerr-Mudd,John"
>>> <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 15:00:30 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2018-02-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>> Saw an argument about this on a ham radio forum. Was digital 'plain
>>>> >>> speech' ? What about CW ? etc. I just ignored it except for randomly
>>>> >>> reading one or two posts.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Surprised they're still arguing this.
>>>> >
>>>> > Radio amateurs are the ultimate barrack-room lawyers.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> Top tip:
>>>> Do *not* get involved with uk.radio.amateur or uk.legal
>>>
>>> It never ceases to amaze me how non-lawyers will argue to death points
>>> that the courts have long since nailed down.
>>
>> or ignore
>>
>>
>
> Example; here in the Republic, the first official language is Gaelic.
> In a case years ago, I suggested to our barrister that he refers to
> the Act in question in its Gaelic Version,
>
> "Don't even think of that, if we won on that point, it would put the
> whole Irish legal system in doubt,"
>
>

Makes me wonder about EU regulations that have to be translated into <many>
"official" languages, although I think I read that some are more official
than others.

--
Pete
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