Megalextoria
Retro computing and gaming, sci-fi books, tv and movies and other geeky stuff.

Home » Digital Archaeology » Computer Arcana » Apple » Apple II » What makes SmartPorts so "smart"?
Show: Today's Messages :: Show Polls :: Message Navigator
E-mail to friend 
Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362586] Mon, 05 February 2018 11:07 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: cb meeks

I hear the term SmartPort used quite often with the IIc but I must admit I'm not sure what it's all about.

I don't own any technical references to the IIc (although, I guess I could find the PDF's but I prefer reading on paper).

Anyway, what are they all about?

Thanks for any info!
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362592 is a reply to message #362586] Mon, 05 February 2018 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Buckels is currently offline  Bill Buckels
Messages: 1418
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"cb meeks" <cbmeeks@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hear the term SmartPort used quite often with the IIc but I must admit
> I'm not sure what it's all about.

Me neither... seems rather dumb to me. Here's what I found...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_IIc#Built-in_cards_and_p orts

"The equivalent of five expansion cards were built-in and integrated into
the Apple IIc motherboard"

"In the rear of the machine were its expansion ports, mostly for providing
access to its built-in cards."

"Although the IIc lacked a SCSI or IDE interface, external hard drives were
produced by third parties that connected through the floppy SmartPort as an
innovative alternative connection method (e.g. ProApp, Chinook, C-Drive).
While these specialized hard drives were relatively slow due to the nature
of how data was transferred through this interface (designed primarily for
floppy drives) they did allow for true mass storage. Other innovations that
used existing expansion ports led to add-on speech and music synthesis
products by means of external devices that plugged into the IIc's serial
ports. Three popular such devices were the Mockingboard-D, Cricket and Echo
IIc."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_IIc

See also:

Integrated WOZ Machine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Woz_Machine
http://www.brutaldeluxe.fr/documentation/iwm/apple2_IWM_Spec _Rev19_1982.pdf

And finally...

http://www.oldtechnewtech.com/apple-ii-solid-state-storage-b enchmarks-smartport-emulation/
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362594 is a reply to message #362592] Mon, 05 February 2018 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
Messages: 993
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2/5/2018 12:36 PM, Bill Buckels wrote:
> "cb meeks" <cbmeeks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hear the term SmartPort used quite often with the IIc but I must admit
>> I'm not sure what it's all about.
>
> Me neither... seems rather dumb to me. [...]

I dunno - you plug different kinds of drives in, and they get assigned
to an "appropriate" (virtual) slot automatically. Plug in a 3.5"? Slot
5. Plug in a 5.25"? Goes to slot 6. At least a little clever, I think.
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362595 is a reply to message #362586] Mon, 05 February 2018 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: cjparana

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 11:07:07 AM UTC-5, cb meeks wrote:
> I hear the term SmartPort used quite often with the IIc but I must admit I'm not sure what it's all about.
>
> I don't own any technical references to the IIc (although, I guess I could find the PDF's but I prefer reading on paper).
>
> Anyway, what are they all about?
>
> Thanks for any info!

It's "smart" in that it handles all the ways original Apple II hardware handled and expected disks (using Disk II controller cards and drives, the first two drives on the card in slot 6, the next in slot 5). The firmware started at slot 7 and tried successively lower slot numbers until it found one with controller card. On the machines with SmartPorts, this is less meaningful (as far as the slot/drive), but older software uses this convention, and the SmartPort makes this transparent to the old software. The SmartPort also handles RAM disks (Usually referred to as RAM5, because it's a RAM "disk," virtually inserted into "slot 5." Basically, the SmartPort is a virtual layer that makes anything it's talking to behave as a block I/O device as far as the software is concerned. It also handles device status, resetting a device, formatting, reading, writing, and control info.
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362600 is a reply to message #362586] Mon, 05 February 2018 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Buckels is currently offline  Bill Buckels
Messages: 1418
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"cb meeks" <cbmeeks@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyway, what are they all about?

I found this stuff as well... and based on some of this stuff I have come to
the conclusion that it is not SmartPorts that are smart... and instead one
needs to be smart to understand SmartPorts...

SmartPort
SmartPort Introduction (11/88)
SmartPort Calls Updated (9/89)
SmartPort Bus Architecture (11/88)
SmartPort Device Types (11/88)
SCSI SmartPort Call Changes (11/90)
Apple IIgs SmartPort Errata (11/90)
SmartPort Subtype Codes (11/88)
SmartPort Packets (5/89)
Apple II SCSI Errata (7/90)

This Technical Note formerly introduced the SmartPort firmware interface.

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.1.html

This Technical Note documents SmartPort call information which is not found
in the descriptions of SmartPort in the Apple IIGS Firmware Reference and
the Apple IIc Technical Reference Manual, Second Edition. The
device-specific information which had been included in this Note is now
found in these manuals.

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.2.html

This Technical Note formerly described the SmartPort Bus architecture, but
this information is now documented in the Apple IIGS Firmware Reference."

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.3.html

This Technical Note documents additional device types which the SmartPort
firmware recognizes, but which may not be currently documented in the
technical reference manuals which cover SmartPort.

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.4.html

This Technical Note describes two CONTROL codes which have changed in
revision C of the Apple II SCSI card firmware.

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.5.html

This Technical Note documents two bugs in the Apple IIgs SmartPort firmware.

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.6.html

This Technical Note clarifies information about SmartPort subtype codes.

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.7.html

This Technical Note describes the structure and timing of a sample SmartPort
packet.

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.8.html

This Technical Note documents SCSI-specific anomalies that were discovered
in the development of the Apple II High-Speed SCSI card.

http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/smpt/t n.smpt.9.html
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362601 is a reply to message #362594] Mon, 05 February 2018 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Buckels is currently offline  Bill Buckels
Messages: 1418
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"David Schmidt" <schmidtd@my-deja.com> wrote:
> At least a little clever, I think.
CleverPorts...
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362603 is a reply to message #362601] Mon, 05 February 2018 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
The first name of SmartPort was Protocol Comverter, see http://www.brutaldeluxe.fr/documentation/iwm.html

It adds a layer to calling a block or character device, it removes a couple of annoying code to identify the connected devices, it offers expandability.

I like SmartPort a lot, it eases a developer's life,

Antoine
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362605 is a reply to message #362603] Mon, 05 February 2018 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: cb meeks

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:01:51 PM UTC-5, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> The first name of SmartPort was Protocol Comverter, see http://www.brutaldeluxe.fr/documentation/iwm.html
>
> It adds a layer to calling a block or character device, it removes a couple of annoying code to identify the connected devices, it offers expandability.
>
> I like SmartPort a lot, it eases a developer's life,
>
> Antoine


At least they didn't call it the "iPort". LOL

OK, I think I understand a little more now. The reason I ask is that I'd love to design something for the IIc. Something along the lines of music and SD device. But I guess I got some studying to do.
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362630 is a reply to message #362586] Mon, 05 February 2018 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: MG

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:07:07 AM UTC-8, cb meeks wrote:
> I hear the term SmartPort used quite often with the IIc but I must admit I'm not sure what it's all about.
>
> I don't own any technical references to the IIc (although, I guess I could find the PDF's but I prefer reading on paper).
>
> Anyway, what are they all about?
>
> Thanks for any info!

SmartPort refers to two different, but related, things:

(1) an IWM-based communication protocol that delivers packets from one IWM to another IWM. This was used on the UniDisk 3.5 and would have been used by the Apple //c LocalTalk adapter. A few products also support the protocol. There is little official Apple documentation on it. Much of what we know about it today was reverse-engineered.

(2) a defined software interface, originally developed for interacting with (1) but eventually used for all kinds of disk-type devices. There is good documentation in the Apple //c Technical Reference (2nd ed.) and the Apple IIgs Firmware Reference. For the Apple IIgs, the Extended SmartPort interface was developed to support larger devices.

From a programmer perspective, I agree wholeheartedly with Antoine regarding (2).

MG
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #362650 is a reply to message #362586] Mon, 05 February 2018 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:07:07 AM UTC-8, cb meeks wrote:
> I hear the term SmartPort used quite often with the IIc but I must admit I'm not sure what it's all about.
>
> I don't own any technical references to the IIc (although, I guess I could find the PDF's but I prefer reading on paper).
>
> Anyway, what are they all about?
>
> Thanks for any info!

It also allows daisy-chaining SOME disk drives, IIRC.
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #388394 is a reply to message #362586] Tue, 05 November 2019 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: doc.maynord

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 9:07:07 AM UTC-7, cb meeks wrote:
> I hear the term SmartPort used quite often with the IIc but I must admit I'm not sure what it's all about.
>
> I don't own any technical references to the IIc (although, I guess I could find the PDF's but I prefer reading on paper).
>
> Anyway, what are they all about?
>
> Thanks for any info!

Interesting: It seems that you have found a plethora on answers by people that do not know either. Smartport allowed ProDOS to take chained devices connected to one card in one slot that exceeded the standard of 2 drives per slot and map the 3,4, drive etc to another slot as if they were installed there.
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #388411 is a reply to message #362630] Wed, 06 November 2019 07:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 3:51:00 PM UTC-8, MG wrote:
> On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:07:07 AM UTC-8, cb meeks wrote:
>> I hear the term SmartPort used quite often with the IIc but I must admit I'm not sure what it's all about.
>>
>> I don't own any technical references to the IIc (although, I guess I could find the PDF's but I prefer reading on paper).
>>
>> Anyway, what are they all about?
>>
>> Thanks for any info!
>
> SmartPort refers to two different, but related, things:
>
> (1) an IWM-based communication protocol that delivers packets from one IWM to another IWM. This was used on the UniDisk 3.5 and would have been used by the Apple //c LocalTalk adapter. A few products also support the protocol. There is little official Apple documentation on it. Much of what we know about it today was reverse-engineered.
>
> (2) a defined software interface, originally developed for interacting with (1) but eventually used for all kinds of disk-type devices. There is good documentation in the Apple //c Technical Reference (2nd ed.) and the Apple IIgs Firmware Reference. For the Apple IIgs, the Extended SmartPort interface was developed to support larger devices.
>
> From a programmer perspective, I agree wholeheartedly with Antoine regarding (2).
>
> MG

A few more details:

1) On the hardware-side, Smartport repurposes the Disk][ connector pins to enable the AppleII CPU to talk with a daisy-chain of smart drives (such as the embedded 6502 inside a white Unidisk 3.5 drive).

2) On the software side, Smartport introduces a new ROM driver API which fixes a number of limitations of the older ProDOS ROM drivers:
A) Allows more than 2 drives per slot
B) Max disk size increased to 2TB
C) Driver parameters anywhere in 64K memory (older API used fixed zero page $42-$47)
D) New Smartport calls allow reading/writing byte streams (not limited to 512 byte blocks)
E) Smartport can load data directly into GS 16MB address space, or aux ram on IIe,IIc
F) Improved status/control calls to locate and configure drives

-JB
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #388419 is a reply to message #388411] Wed, 06 November 2019 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
qkumba is currently offline  qkumba
Messages: 1584
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
> C) Driver parameters anywhere in 64K memory (older API used fixed zero page $42-$47)

However, the implementation will still alter those locations after translating the request.
Note also that SCSI won't allow read to/write from page 0 at all.

> E) Smartport can load data directly into GS 16MB address space, or aux ram on IIe,IIc

There are implementation details for that last one, though.
Some drivers (e.g. SCSI and MicroDrive) will crash if only aux write was enabled.
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #388427 is a reply to message #388419] Wed, 06 November 2019 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:48:31 AM UTC-8, qkumba wrote:
>> C) Driver parameters anywhere in 64K memory (older API used fixed zero page $42-$47)
>
> However, the implementation will still alter those locations after translating the request.
> Note also that SCSI won't allow read to/write from page 0 at all.
>
>> E) Smartport can load data directly into GS 16MB address space, or aux ram on IIe,IIc
>
> There are implementation details for that last one, though.
> Some drivers (e.g. SCSI and MicroDrive) will crash if only aux write was enabled.

Do you know which Smartport driver(s) alter $4x?

BTW: I believe Apple's Slinky memory card Smartport driver saves and restores all used zero page including $4x. Apple Slinky card SP also properly supports aux read/write, though Apple has separately recommended against reading/writing aux mem directly.

-JB
Re: What makes SmartPorts so "smart"? [message #388551 is a reply to message #388427] Sat, 09 November 2019 12:03 Go to previous message
qkumba is currently offline  qkumba
Messages: 1584
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
SCSI, MicroDrive, CFFA so far.
  Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
Previous Topic: Disk II Controller
Next Topic: New Apple IIgs File Server
Goto Forum:
  

-=] Back to Top [=-
[ Syndicate this forum (XML) ] [ RSS ] [ PDF ]

Current Time: Fri Mar 29 11:32:20 EDT 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02908 seconds