| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363717 is a reply to message #363706] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 07:59   |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>> On 2018-02-16, Gareth's Downstairs Computer <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 16/02/2018 13:22, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I will admit that this Richard Dawkins fellow is rather on the dogmatic side,
>>>>
>>>> As is any pope
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > I think that those without a religious faith should still be more cautious, as
>>>> > respect for their religious freedom has been attained only relatively recently.
>>>>
>>>> Atheism is not a matter of religious freedom; it is the natural state in
>>>> which to be.
>>>
>>> Pascal, one of the great thinkers explained . If God exists,you better
>>> worship him, if he does not, well, nothing lost.
>>
>> Pascal failed to consider the possibilities. If God turns out to be
>> Zeus or Olorun or Shiva or Slartibartfast, will a believer in Jehovah
>> be better off than if they had not believed at all?
>
>
> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
know that with certainty?
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363718 is a reply to message #363713] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 08:01 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:22:13 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 02:20, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 13:22:42 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/02/2018 12:48, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:18:15 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 16/02/2018 02:33, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>>>> >> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> >>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> >>>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> >>>> world of religion?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>>> >>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>>> >>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>>> >>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>>> >>> point?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
>>>> >> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
>>>> >> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
>>>> >> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
>>>> >> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
>>>> >> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
>>>> >> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Atheists neither burn at the stake nor bomb those who
>>>> > don't conform
>>>>
>>>> Unless the atheist's name is Stalin.
>>>>
>>>> And now if you are a typical "atheist" you are going to do your best
>>>> to portray Stalin as a devout Christian because you can't _stand_ the
>>>> fact that in the name of Atheism he purged something like 100,000
>>>> clergy and monastics.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Straw Man
>>
>> So you evade a different way, but you still evade.
>>
>
> There's no evasion in identifying a challenge based upon a number
> of false fabrications as a Straw Man.
>
> It is noticeable that you as a religionist are resorting to personal
> insults, whereas there is no malice involved in identifying religious
> people as certifiable loonies living in the world of make-believe,
> just as a psychiatrist bears no such malice in diagnosing his patients.
>
> ISTR that some children talk to an imaginary friemd and it is always
> staggering to find grown adults who still do.
>
> Certifiable loonies? Certianly, for if I were to go around claiming
> that an invisible green parrot sits on my shoulders telling me what
> to do, I'd very soon get hauled off by the men in white coats;
> especially if I was also tramping the streets to persuade others of
> its existence.
Still evading. I predicted that your reaction to mention of Stalin
would be to foam at the mouth, stick your fingers in your ears, and go
La La La. Thank you for being so predictable.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363721 is a reply to message #363715] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 09:12 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-17, Gareth's Downstairs Computer <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 08:50, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> On 2018-02-16, Gareth's Downstairs Computer <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 16/02/2018 13:22, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I will admit that this Richard Dawkins fellow is rather on the dogmatic side,
>>>> >
>>>> > As is any pope
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> I think that those without a religious faith should still be more cautious, as
>>>> >> respect for their religious freedom has been attained only relatively recently.
>>>> >
>>>> > Atheism is not a matter of religious freedom; it is the natural state in
>>>> > which to be.
>>>>
>>>> Pascal, one of the great thinkers explained . If God exists,you better
>>>> worship him, if he does not, well, nothing lost.
>>>
>>> Pascal failed to consider the possibilities. If God turns out to be
>>> Zeus or Olorun or Shiva or Slartibartfast, will a believer in Jehovah
>>> be better off than if they had not believed at all?
>>
>>
>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>
>>
>
> Even the Pope is 99% an atheist were you to enumerate all the gods of
> Ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Hittite, and Viking beliefs, none of
> which he will believe in.
>
>
Actually it is peculiar that you mention that. There are several
groups in the Catholic charch at the moment, one of which wants the
Pope excommunitated for being too liberal, and others disagree.
There is to be a referendum on abortion first here, Oh, Joy!.. and
then the pope is supposing to be visiting later (Oh, Joy!^2) is it
easy now to get a wheelchair to the taxi anks in Washington Airport?.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363722 is a reply to message #363717] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 09:16 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>
>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>
> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
> know that with certainty?
I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
shouldbe sceptical about everything.
All Cretans may not be liars.
(I am still getting my head about some people having to have a
licence of have and use a competer. is everyone mad?")
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363728 is a reply to message #363722] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 09:50 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 17 Feb 2018 14:16:37 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>
>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>> know that with certainty?
>
> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
Bingo. The trouble is that people like Gareth won't accept skepticism
about their beliefs.
> All Cretans may not be liars.
>
> (I am still getting my head about some people having to have a
> licence of have and use a competer. is everyone mad?")
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363730 is a reply to message #363708] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 09:55 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 17 Feb 2018 09:01:19 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-02-17, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 21:19:40 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/02/2018 20:22, JimP wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From what I saw in the documentaries, the freemasons didn't see Duh
>>>> Leader as God, and they were more non-denominational.
>>>
>>> AIUI, the entry fee is a belief in a supreme being.
>>
>> Thats Deism. Many of the founder of the US were Deists, not
>> Christians. In spite of claims to the contrary.
>>
>>> The birth of the organisation in 1717 was during a period of
>>> fervent christianity, and that they were seeking out older
>>> fundamental religions necessitated great secrecy to
>>> avoid prosecution for heresy; secrecy that
>>> continues to this day.
>>
>> Well, they felt that masonry was difficult, and there were people who
>> claimed to be master masons and their buildings fell down. The claim
>> was their heritage are ancient Egypt's masons.
>>
>>> Progression through their ranks is also very tightly controlled
>>> to ensure that the religious minds are plastic enough to
>>> be weaned off their original faith.
>>>
>>> Time to start a rival organisation, Freeplumbing, the entry
>>> fee being devout atheism?
>>
>> Well, I'm more an agnostic.
>
> Why bother being agnostic?
Because I want to.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363732 is a reply to message #363714] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 09:58 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:24:02 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 03:47, JimP wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 21:19:40 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/02/2018 20:22, JimP wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From what I saw in the documentaries, the freemasons didn't see Duh
>>>> Leader as God, and they were more non-denominational.
>>>
>>> AIUI, the entry fee is a belief in a supreme being.
>>
>> Thats Deism. Many of the founder of the US were Deists, not
>> Christians. In spite of claims to the contrary.
>>
>>> The birth of the organisation in 1717 was during a period of
>>> fervent christianity, and that they were seeking out older
>>> fundamental religions necessitated great secrecy to
>>> avoid prosecution for heresy; secrecy that
>>> continues to this day.
>>
>> Well, they felt that masonry was difficult, and there were people who
>> claimed to be master masons and their buildings fell down. The claim
>> was their heritage are ancient Egypt's masons.
>>
>>> Progression through their ranks is also very tightly controlled
>>> to ensure that the religious minds are plastic enough to
>>> be weaned off their original faith.
>>>
>>> Time to start a rival organisation, Freeplumbing, the entry
>>> fee being devout atheism?
>>
>> Well, I'm more an agnostic.
>>
>
> Did you hear of the dyslexic agnostic amnesiac who lay awake
> all night wondering whether there was a dog?
Yes, I've heard that one.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363733 is a reply to message #363713] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 09:59 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 02:20, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 13:22:42 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/02/2018 12:48, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:18:15 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 16/02/2018 02:33, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>>>> >> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> >>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> >>>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> >>>> world of religion?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>>> >>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>>> >>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>>> >>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>>> >>> point?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
>>>> >> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
>>>> >> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
>>>> >> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
>>>> >> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
>>>> >> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
>>>> >> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Atheists neither burn at the stake nor bomb those who
>>>> > don't conform
>>>>
>>>> Unless the atheist's name is Stalin.
>>>>
>>>> And now if you are a typical "atheist" you are going to do your best
>>>> to portray Stalin as a devout Christian because you can't _stand_ the
>>>> fact that in the name of Atheism he purged something like 100,000
>>>> clergy and monastics.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Straw Man
>>
>> So you evade a different way, but you still evade.
>>
>
> There's no evasion in identifying a challenge based upon a number
> of false fabrications as a Straw Man.
>
> It is noticeable that you as a religionist are resorting to personal
> insults, whereas there is no malice involved in identifying religious
> people as certifiable loonies living in the world of make-believe,
> just as a psychiatrist bears no such malice in diagnosing his patients.
>
> ISTR that some children talk to an imaginary friemd and it is always
> staggering to find grown adults who still do.
>
> Certifiable loonies? Certianly, for if I were to go around claiming
> that an invisible green parrot sits on my shoulders telling me what
> to do, I'd very soon get hauled off by the men in white coats;
> especially if I was also tramping the streets to persuade others of
> its existence.
>
Wow! Not resorting to personal insults, those are the craziest few
sentences I've ever read.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363734 is a reply to message #363722] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 09:59 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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<mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>
>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>> know that with certainty?
>
> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>
> All Cretans may not be liars.
>
> (I am still getting my head about some people having to have a
> licence of have and use a competer. is everyone mad?")
>
??
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363740 is a reply to message #363728] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 10:06 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 17/02/2018 14:50, J. Clarke wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2018 14:16:37 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>
>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>> know that with certainty?
>>
>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>
> Bingo. The trouble is that people like Gareth won't accept skepticism
> about their beliefs.
I have no beliefs.
Once again you resort to emotive personal results.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363743 is a reply to message #363733] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 10:11 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 17/02/2018 14:59, Peter Flass wrote:
> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> There's no evasion in identifying a challenge based upon a number
>> of false fabrications as a Straw Man.
>>
>> It is noticeable that you as a religionist are resorting to personal
>> insults, whereas there is no malice involved in identifying religious
>> people as certifiable loonies living in the world of make-believe,
>> just as a psychiatrist bears no such malice in diagnosing his patients.
>>
>> ISTR that some children talk to an imaginary friemd and it is always
>> staggering to find grown adults who still do.
>>
>> Certifiable loonies? Certianly, for if I were to go around claiming
>> that an invisible green parrot sits on my shoulders telling me what
>> to do, I'd very soon get hauled off by the men in white coats;
>> especially if I was also tramping the streets to persuade others of
>> its existence.
>>
>
> Wow! Not resorting to personal insults, those are the craziest few
> sentences I've ever read.
Except insofar as I refer to craziness, certifiable loonies, what do
you find to be crazy?
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363745 is a reply to message #363738] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 10:40 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:05:38 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 14:49, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 13:24:41 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/02/2018 12:59, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>>> know that with certainty?
>>>
>>> One can be sure that an idea conceived in the ignorance and
>>> superstition of the Stone Age or earlier to explain
>>> the phenomena of weather and cosmology is imaginary.
>>
>> In other words we should take your opinion on faith.
>>
>
> Another straw man, for that is not what I said.
Actually it is. You have given no reason for us to believe you other
than that you say so.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363746 is a reply to message #363740] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 10:42 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:06:38 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 14:50, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On 17 Feb 2018 14:16:37 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> > to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>>
>>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>>> know that with certainty?
>>>
>>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>>
>> Bingo. The trouble is that people like Gareth won't accept skepticism
>> about their beliefs.
>
> I have no beliefs.
You stated that "they are all imaginary anyway". That is a belief.
Are you now saying that you do not believe that?
>
> Once again you resort to emotive personal results.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363747 is a reply to message #363741] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 10:43 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:07:09 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 14:51, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 13:26:19 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/02/2018 13:01, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Still evading. I predicted that your reaction to mention of Stalin
>>>> would be to foam at the mouth, stick your fingers in your ears, and go
>>>> La La La. Thank you for being so predictable.
>>>
>>> Once again the resort of the presumed religionist is emotional
>>> maladjustment.
>>
>> Still evading Stalin.
>>
>
> Grow up, sonny.
Still evading. However you have in an earlier post asserted that you
have no beliefs, which marks you as either lying or deluded, so I'm
done with you.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363750 is a reply to message #363740] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 11:10 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:06:38 +0000
Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 14:50, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On 17 Feb 2018 14:16:37 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> > to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>>
>>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>>> know that with certainty?
>>>
>>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>>
>> Bingo. The trouble is that people like Gareth won't accept skepticism
>> about their beliefs.
>
> I have no beliefs.
Patently false, you have stated clearly and repeatedly that there
are no gods. You cannot prove this assertion therefore it is something you
believe.
I think you are probably right in that belief but I cannot prove it
either. However one god turning up and announcing him/her/itself would
prove us both wrong should it happen, even a god that has never been
described by anyone.
I suspect you also believe in objective reality and that cannot be
proven to exist either.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363752 is a reply to message #363716] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 11:02 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 07:45:11 -0500
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 14:04:53 -0500
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Science relies on a number of unprovable assumptions, not
>>>> least of which is that the universe is self consistent.
>>>
>>> Actually science includes the possibility that the universe is not self
>>> consistent.
>>
>> Erm no, science assumes that results are repeatable, without
>> self consistency that cannot be assumed.
>
> Yet scientists are aware that physical laws may not be consistent
> through space and time and look for indications that that may be the
> case.
Erm no, science assumes that physical laws are the same everywhere
and at all times. Scientists look hard for things that don't seem to match
our current set of models, ie. indications that our models are wrong (we
know they're wrong because we have too many and they contradict each other
in places), in order to improve those models.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363753 is a reply to message #363734] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:04 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 07:59:50 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>
>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>> know that with certainty?
>>
>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>>
>> All Cretans may not be liars.
>>
>> (I am still getting my head about some people having to have a
>> licence of have and use a competer. is everyone mad?")
>>
>
> ??
Its not a license to use a computer. All legally purchased software,
including an operating system like Windows, has a license key. Without
it, the software, including Windows, was obtained illegally.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363754 is a reply to message #363734] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:05 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-17, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>
>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>> know that with certainty?
>>
>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>>
>> All Cretans may not be liars.
>>
>> (I am still getting my head about some people having to have a
>> licence of have and use a competer. is everyone mad?")
>>
>
> ??
>
The Windows tragicomedy
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363755 is a reply to message #363741] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:07 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:07:09 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 14:51, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 13:26:19 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/02/2018 13:01, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Still evading. I predicted that your reaction to mention of Stalin
>>>> would be to foam at the mouth, stick your fingers in your ears, and go
>>>> La La La. Thank you for being so predictable.
>>>
>>> Once again the resort of the presumed religionist is emotional
>>> maladjustment.
>>
>> Still evading Stalin.
>>
>
> Grow up, sonny.
J. Clarke likes to argue.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363756 is a reply to message #363754] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:18 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 17 Feb 2018 17:05:58 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-02-17, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> > to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>>
>>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>>> know that with certainty?
>>>
>>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>>>
>>> All Cretans may not be liars.
>>>
>>> (I am still getting my head about some people having to have a
>>> licence of have and use a competer. is everyone mad?")
>>>
>>
>> ??
>>
>
> The Windows tragicomedy
Or IBM or DEC or just about anybody. If you think that having to pay
for software is something that Microsoft invented you have to be a
child.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363758 is a reply to message #363755] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:21 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 17/02/2018 17:07, JimP wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:07:09 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 17/02/2018 14:51, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 13:26:19 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 17/02/2018 13:01, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Still evading. I predicted that your reaction to mention of Stalin
>>>> > would be to foam at the mouth, stick your fingers in your ears, and go
>>>> > La La La. Thank you for being so predictable.
>>>>
>>>> Once again the resort of the presumed religionist is emotional
>>>> maladjustment.
>>>
>>> Still evading Stalin.
>>>
>>
>> Grow up, sonny.
>
> J. Clarke likes to argue.
>
He's given up and run away.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363759 is a reply to message #363740] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:39 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 14:50, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On 17 Feb 2018 14:16:37 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> > to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>>
>>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>>> know that with certainty?
>>>
>>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>>
>> Bingo. The trouble is that people like Gareth won't accept skepticism
>> about their beliefs.
>
> I have no beliefs.
NOT believing in God(s) is a belief, the same as believing in him/them,
since there's no scientific evidence either way.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363761 is a reply to message #363757] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:45 |
Bill Findlay
Messages: 286
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 17 Feb 2018, Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote
(in article <p69o5a$lir$1@dont-email.me>):
> On 17/02/2018 16:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:06:38 +0000
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have no beliefs.
>>
>> Patently false, you have stated clearly and repeatedly that there
>> are no gods. You cannot prove this assertion therefore it is something you
>> believe.
>
> It is important not to fall into the trap of the sophistry employed
> by the religionists when they equivocate blind faith with
> practical observation.
There is an semantic shell game played by supernaturalists with the
words religion, faith, belief, knowledge, confidence, trust, and hope.
It serves to confuse matters nicely, and sowing semantic confusion is
the supernaturalists' most successful debating tactic.
--
Bill Findlay
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363762 is a reply to message #363743] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:47 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 17/02/2018 14:59, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> There's no evasion in identifying a challenge based upon a number
>>> of false fabrications as a Straw Man.
>>>
>>> It is noticeable that you as a religionist are resorting to personal
>>> insults, whereas there is no malice involved in identifying religious
>>> people as certifiable loonies living in the world of make-believe,
>>> just as a psychiatrist bears no such malice in diagnosing his patients.
>>>
>>> ISTR that some children talk to an imaginary friemd and it is always
>>> staggering to find grown adults who still do.
>>>
>>> Certifiable loonies? Certianly, for if I were to go around claiming
>>> that an invisible green parrot sits on my shoulders telling me what
>>> to do, I'd very soon get hauled off by the men in white coats;
>>> especially if I was also tramping the streets to persuade others of
>>> its existence.
>>>
>>
>> Wow! Not resorting to personal insults, those are the craziest few
>> sentences I've ever read.
>
> Except insofar as I refer to craziness, certifiable loonies, what do
> you find to be crazy?
>
You're practically foaming at the mouth.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363763 is a reply to message #363747] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:47 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:07:09 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 17/02/2018 14:51, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 13:26:19 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 17/02/2018 13:01, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Still evading. I predicted that your reaction to mention of Stalin
>>>> > would be to foam at the mouth, stick your fingers in your ears, and go
>>>> > La La La. Thank you for being so predictable.
>>>>
>>>> Once again the resort of the presumed religionist is emotional
>>>> maladjustment.
>>>
>>> Still evading Stalin.
>>>
>>
>> Grow up, sonny.
>
> Still evading. However you have in an earlier post asserted that you
> have no beliefs, which marks you as either lying or deluded, so I'm
> done with you.
>
Being agnostic would be "having no beliefs."
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363764 is a reply to message #363752] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 12:47 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 07:45:11 -0500
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 14:04:53 -0500
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Science relies on a number of unprovable assumptions, not
>>>> > least of which is that the universe is self consistent.
>>>>
>>>> Actually science includes the possibility that the universe is not self
>>>> consistent.
>>>
>>> Erm no, science assumes that results are repeatable, without
>>> self consistency that cannot be assumed.
>>
>> Yet scientists are aware that physical laws may not be consistent
>> through space and time and look for indications that that may be the
>> case.
>
> Erm no, science assumes that physical laws are the same everywhere
> and at all times. Scientists look hard for things that don't seem to match
> our current set of models, ie. indications that our models are wrong (we
> know they're wrong because we have too many and they contradict each other
> in places), in order to improve those models.
>
They're certainly finding a number of interesting anomalies lately.
Quantum entanglement is old news, but apparently there's now some evidence
suggesting a fourth spatial dimension.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363769 is a reply to message #363753] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 13:30 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-17, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 07:59:50 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> > to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>>
>>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>>> know that with certainty?
>>>
>>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>>>
>>> All Cretans may not be liars.
>>>
>>> (I am still getting my head about some people having to have a
>>> licence of have and use a competer. is everyone mad?")
>>>
>>
>> ??
>
> Its not a license to use a computer. All legally purchased software,
> including an operating system like Windows, has a license key. Without
> it, the software, including Windows, was obtained illegally.
Even Linux?
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363770 is a reply to message #363759] |
Sat, 17 February 2018 13:38 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-17, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 17/02/2018 14:50, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On 17 Feb 2018 14:16:37 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-02-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> >> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>> >
>>>> > So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>>> > know that with certainty?
>>>>
>>>> I think that we can not know anything with real certainty, but
>>>> shouldbe sceptical about everything.
>>>
>>> Bingo. The trouble is that people like Gareth won't accept skepticism
>>> about their beliefs.
>>
>> I have no beliefs.
>
> NOT believing in God(s) is a belief, the same as believing in him/them,
> since there's no scientific evidence either way.
>
Prduce one person that has come back from the (imaginary) afterworld
to tell us it exists.
I know a erson that died in November, after frantic attempts to to
pump his chest. I wnder what it was like, starting to de and coming
back. When I heard it, I wrote down 'No resus*"
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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