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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363544 is a reply to message #363533] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 16:14   |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>> love of a child for his parents.
>>
>
> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
> world of religion?
>
>
I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
point?
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363552 is a reply to message #363544] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 16:43 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>> world of religion?
>>
>>
>
> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
> what I want.
It's because the bible thumpers want to impose their beliefs on
others, whether it's abortion or abolition.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363557 is a reply to message #363552] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 17:02 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-15, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>
>>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>> world of religion?
>>
>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>> what I want.
>
> It's because the bible thumpers want to impose their beliefs on
> others, whether it's abortion or abolition.
"A zealot is someone who does what God would do if only He had all the facts."
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363560 is a reply to message #363544] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 18:36 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>> world of religion?
>>
>>
>
> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
> point?
>
There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
their own world of make-believe.
The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363563 is a reply to message #363552] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 19:26 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>> world of religion?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>> what I want.
>
> It's because the bible thumpers want to impose their beliefs on
> others, whether it's abortion or abolition.
>
You against abolition?
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363564 is a reply to message #363560] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 19:26 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>> world of religion?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>> point?
>>
>
> There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
> their own world of make-believe.
>
> The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
> back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
> civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
> Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
> the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
>
You have a very distorted view of history. After the fall of the Roman
Empire it was the monasteries that kept whatever learning there was alive
in Europe.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363565 is a reply to message #363544] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 19:33 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>> world of religion?
>>
>>
>
> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
> point?
I live in Duh South. People force their religious beliefs on me. I was
taught, in Southern Baptist Church, that doing such a thing was
sinful. Apparently others didn't get the memo, statement, from their
preachers.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363567 is a reply to message #363559] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 19:38 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 15:22:36 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> Not all people who believe in God are that kind of "Bible thumper", of course. They're just the ones that are the most noticeable.
I fully agree. Me forinstance. I don't thump the Bible, its a silly
thing to do. Nor force my Christian beliefs on to others, I consider
it rude and sinful.
Yes, I have seen people thump their Bible while claiming their point,
typicaly misquoted or taken out of context, should make me convert to
their distortion of said religion. It never works.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363568 is a reply to message #363564] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 19:40 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:26:39 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> > love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> world of religion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>> point?
>>>
>>
>> There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
>> their own world of make-believe.
>>
>> The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
>> back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
>> civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
>> Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
>> the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
>>
>
> You have a very distorted view of history. After the fall of the Roman
> Empire it was the monasteries that kept whatever learning there was alive
> in Europe.
Uhm, Leonardo showed the Earth is not the center of the universe. He
was almost burned at the stake for claiming that. And an earlier
scientist who made the statement that there could be peopel living in
other systems was burned at the stake.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363570 is a reply to message #363544] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 18:59 |
Joy Beeson
Messages: 159
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
> point?
It isn't the non-religious people -- it's the virulently evangelistic
fundamentalist anti-theists who are hostile. It is part of their
religion that they must pose as atheists; I refuse to let them steal
my name, but I never bother to speak to a brick wall.
Well, hardly ever.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363577 is a reply to message #363552] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 17:10 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> It's because the bible thumpers want to impose their beliefs on
> others, whether it's abortion or abolition.
The Starfish and the Spider: The Unstoppable Power of Leaderless
Organizations
https://www.amazon.com/Starfish-Spider-Unstoppable-Leaderles s-Organizations-ebook/dp/B000S1LU3M/
.... includes "catalyst" individuals ... get it going ... and then
may be never heard of again, pg102/loc1132-37:
At twenty-five, she married an abolitionist. Her husband introduced her
to many key figures of the abolitionist movement, including Thomas
Clarkson, the champion. “Having read of all these people,” Stanton
recalled, “it was difficult to realize as I visited them in their homes
from day to day, that they were the same persons I had so long worshiped
from afar!” But her experience with the abolitionists wasn’t all
positive. When Stanton attended an antislavery convention, she was
forced to sit in a segregated, screened-off section reserved for
women. What was more, women were not allowed to speak or vote in the
meeting. How can we fight for slaves’ rights, she fumed, while denying
women equal rights?
.... snip ...
picks up women equal rights from abolition movement ... and provides
catalyst for Anthony
pg104/loc1164-66
Anthony was as brazen as she was bold. Although it was illegal for women
to vote at the time, Anthony went to a polling place in Rochester, New
York, and demanded to cast her ballot. When the clerk tried to explain
that she couldn’t, she threatened to sue him and eventually got her
way. When she was arrested for having voted, she embraced the challenge.
.... snip ...
many of the other examples involve internet and/or other recent
distributed operations.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363578 is a reply to message #363544] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 21:33 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>> world of religion?
>>
>>
>
> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
> point?
It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
the "atheists" than from the Christians.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363581 is a reply to message #363578] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 21:56 |
Bill Findlay
Messages: 286
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>> world of religion?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>> point?
>
> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>
> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
Lucky you.
--
Bill Findlay
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363588 is a reply to message #363581] |
Thu, 15 February 2018 23:14 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 16 Feb 2018 02:56:00 GMT, Bill Findlay
<findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk > wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> > love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> world of religion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>> point?
>>
>> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
>> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
>> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>>
>> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
>> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
>> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
>> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
>> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>
> Lucky you.
Oh, booh hoo. Poor little you.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363594 is a reply to message #363578] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 03:23 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 21:33:59 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
Well said.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363597 is a reply to message #363560] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 03:49 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-15, Gareth's Downstairs Computer <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>> world of religion?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>> point?
>>
>
> There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
> their own world of make-believe.
>
> The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
> back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
> civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
> Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
> the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
>
>
>
Sadly, Myanmar(sp?) a mostly Buddhist country, had not showwn itself
to be particularly tolerant recently.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363598 is a reply to message #363564] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 03:56 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-16, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> > love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> world of religion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>> point?
>>>
>>
>> There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
>> their own world of make-believe.
>>
>> The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
>> back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
>> civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
>> Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
>> the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
>>
>
> You have a very distorted view of history. After the fall of the Roman
> Empire it was the monasteries that kept whatever learning there was alive
> in Europe.
>
Ehh, No. Before the Fall of the western Roman Empire, the monks had
made attempts to extinguish ancient learning. They had gone through
the Library of Alexandria, removed any books that disagreed with
their views and burned them, one of the last classic philosophers,
was executed by having her skin removed with sharp sea-shells for
disgreeing with the monks.
There have been several books and TV films on the subject recently.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363599 is a reply to message #363563] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 03:58 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-02-16, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> > love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> world of religion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>> what I want.
>>
>> It's because the bible thumpers want to impose their beliefs on
>> others, whether it's abortion or abolition.
>>
>
> You against abolition?
>
He sshold move to Libya, where slavery seems to have been legalized
since the fall of [GQ]adaffi.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363601 is a reply to message #363578] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 05:18 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 16/02/2018 02:33, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>> world of religion?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>> point?
>
> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>
> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>
>
Atheists neither burn at the stake nor bomb those who
don't conform
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363602 is a reply to message #360036] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 07:18 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 22:20:45 -0600, Dave Garland
<dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 2/15/2018 6:40 PM, JimP wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:26:39 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> > Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> > <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> >>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> >> world of religion?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>>> > religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>>> > thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>>> > what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>>> > point?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
>>>> their own world of make-believe.
>>>>
>>>> The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
>>>> back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
>>>> civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
>>>> Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
>>>> the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You have a very distorted view of history. After the fall of the Roman
>>> Empire it was the monasteries that kept whatever learning there was alive
>>> in Europe.
>>
>> Uhm, Leonardo showed the Earth is not the center of the universe. He
>> was almost burned at the stake for claiming that. And an earlier
>> scientist who made the statement that there could be peopel living in
>> other systems was burned at the stake.
>>
> You may be thinking of Galileo, rather than Leonardo.
Anything is possible, but Leonardo did dissect human bodies. Also a
burn at the stake offense.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363607 is a reply to message #363598] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 07:44 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 16 Feb 2018 08:56:35 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-02-16, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> >> love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> > world of religion?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>>> point?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
>>> their own world of make-believe.
>>>
>>> The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
>>> back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
>>> civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
>>> Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
>>> the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
>>>
>>
>> You have a very distorted view of history. After the fall of the Roman
>> Empire it was the monasteries that kept whatever learning there was alive
>> in Europe.
>>
>
> Ehh, No. Before the Fall of the western Roman Empire, the monks had
> made attempts to extinguish ancient learning. They had gone through
> the Library of Alexandria, removed any books that disagreed with
> their views and burned them, one of the last classic philosophers,
> was executed by having her skin removed with sharp sea-shells for
> disgreeing with the monks.
Now let's see, there are two possible dates for the burning of the
Library. One of them is 48BC. Are you saying that there were lots of
influential Christian monks in Alexandrial in 48 BC? The other was
270 AD. In 270AD the Roman persecution of Christians was at its peak.
Are you suggesting that there were monasteries functioning in the
Roman empire at that time?
As for "one of the last classic philosophers", if you're on about
Hypatia, the library had long since been burned by her time, and
nobody is aware of any significant contributions to knowledge that she
might have made.
> There have been several books and TV films on the subject recently.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363608 is a reply to message #363601] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 07:48 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:18:15 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 16/02/2018 02:33, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> > love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> world of religion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>> point?
>>
>> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
>> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
>> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>>
>> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
>> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
>> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
>> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
>> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>>
>>
>
> Atheists neither burn at the stake nor bomb those who
> don't conform
Unless the atheist's name is Stalin.
And now if you are a typical "atheist" you are going to do your best
to portray Stalin as a devout Christian because you can't _stand_ the
fact that in the name of Atheism he purged something like 100,000
clergy and monastics.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363610 is a reply to message #363606] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:10 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 5:33:49 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 21:18:35 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> You're thinking of Galileo. The earlier scientist was Giordano Bruno.
> If you're on about Galileo, the rule he broke wasn't "don't talk about
> science", it was "don't claim that you have a monopoly on truth".
LOL.
He was right, they were wrong, and they were the ones who, by asserting the
right to use force, were claiming a monopoly on truth. And utterly without a
valid basis - something with no empirical foundation at all.
It is, however, quite true that science has no monopoly on truth; there are
things beyond its purview that are still the domain of philosophers instead.
Religion supplies answers to some of those questions to the satisfaction of some
people.
In the West, after a long and difficult struggle, religious liberty has been
established. In the Muslim world, this battle has not yet been won, and many of
the people of some majority-Muslim countries do not view religious liberty as
something to be cherished and extended to all. After September 11, 2001, the
kind of thinking this encourages has become an intolerable threat.
John Savard
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363611 is a reply to message #363588] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:14 |
Bill Findlay
Messages: 286
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 Feb 2018 02:56:00 GMT, Bill Findlay
> <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk > wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> >> love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> > world of religion?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>>> point?
>>>
>>> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
>>> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
>>> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>>>
>>> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
>>> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
>>> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
>>> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
>>> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>>
>> Lucky you.
>
> Oh, booh hoo. Poor little you.
Thanks for that heartfelt display of sympathy.
--
Bill Findlay
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363612 is a reply to message #363608] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:16 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 5:48:52 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:18:15 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Atheists neither burn at the stake nor bomb those who
>> don't conform
> Unless the atheist's name is Stalin.
While it is true that Hitler came from a Roman Catholic background, he doesn't
seem to have been practicing.
And then there's Mao Tse-Tung, who, having China to work with, killed even more
people.
But Stalin didn't kill people *for* atheism, he killed them for Communism, his
political ideology. People usually have to believe in _something_ to *have* a
reason for tyranny, oppression, and violence.
But it's certainly unfair to contrast atheists with Christians in a way that
doesn't take into account that Billy Graham didn't kill any more people than
Richard Dawkins - *neither* of them has blood on their hands.
Religion is a cause that gives people a reason to do things. Good things, like
those done by Albert Schweitzer or Mother Theresa. And, at one time in the
distant past, bad things - when people held _power_ in the name of religion and
used force to hold on to that power.
John Savard
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363613 is a reply to message #363611] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:22 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 6:14:56 AM UTC-7, Bill Findlay wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 16 Feb 2018 02:56:00 GMT, Bill Findlay
>> <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk > wrote:
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
>>>> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
>>>> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
>>>> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
>>>> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>>> Lucky you.
>> Oh, booh hoo. Poor little you.
> Thanks for that heartfelt display of sympathy.
Ah, now I've straightened it out. If he gets more of that from the "atheists",
then he isn't getting much of it, which is what makes him lucky.
I will admit that this Richard Dawkins fellow is rather on the dogmatic side,
and he has attracted a following nowadays.
I think that those without a religious faith should still be more cautious, as
respect for their religious freedom has been attained only relatively recently.
But while religion has often been a positive force, anything that encourages
large masses of people to put uncritical trust in what a few leaders say is
inherently dangerous.
No doubt examples can be produced of a few other things of that nature besides
religion.
John Savard
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363614 is a reply to message #363608] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:22 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 16/02/2018 12:48, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:18:15 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 16/02/2018 02:33, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> >> love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> > world of religion?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>>> point?
>>>
>>> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
>>> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
>>> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>>>
>>> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
>>> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
>>> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
>>> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
>>> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Atheists neither burn at the stake nor bomb those who
>> don't conform
>
> Unless the atheist's name is Stalin.
>
> And now if you are a typical "atheist" you are going to do your best
> to portray Stalin as a devout Christian because you can't _stand_ the
> fact that in the name of Atheism he purged something like 100,000
> clergy and monastics.
>
Straw Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363615 is a reply to message #363610] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:33 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 16/02/2018 13:10, Quadibloc wrote:
>
> It is, however, quite true that science has no monopoly on truth; there are
> things beyond its purview that are still the domain of philosophers instead.
Really?
Other than science causes a crestfallen retreat by religion into
ignorance and superstition, there may be things that scientific
research has not YET determined, but nothing is beyond it.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363617 is a reply to message #363597] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:56 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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<mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-02-15, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> > love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> world of religion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>> point?
>>>
>>
>> There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
>> their own world of make-believe.
>>
>> The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
>> back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
>> civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
>> Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
>> the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
>>
>>
>>
> Sadly, Myanmar(sp?) a mostly Buddhist country, had not showwn itself
> to be particularly tolerant recently.
>
I used to think that if the world was Buddhist we'd have a lot less
conflict. Then I saw what was going on in Sri Lanka, and now Myanmar and
realized that people are the same no matter what their professed beliefs.
The Cao Dai in Vietnam were pretty good fighters too.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363618 is a reply to message #363601] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:56 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 16/02/2018 02:33, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:14:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> > love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> world of religion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>> religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>> thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>> what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>> point?
>>
>> It's not "non-religious people", it's people who have adopted
>> everything about religion except the deity and think that that somehow
>> makes their religion superior to religions that feature deities.
>>
>> I don't know if there's a God, I don't care if there's a God, but I
>> also don't care if anyone else wants to believe there is. That's
>> their business. The only time I get upset with any of them is when
>> they try to beat me over the head with it and I get more of that from
>> the "atheists" than from the Christians.
>>
>>
>
> Atheists neither burn at the stake nor bomb those who
> don't conform
>
>
Except in the former USSR, where any show of religion was severely
punished.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363619 is a reply to message #363612] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 08:56 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 5:48:52 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:18:15 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Atheists neither burn at the stake nor bomb those who
>>> don't conform
>
>> Unless the atheist's name is Stalin.
>
> While it is true that Hitler came from a Roman Catholic background, he doesn't
> seem to have been practicing.
>
> And then there's Mao Tse-Tung, who, having China to work with, killed even more
> people.
>
> But Stalin didn't kill people *for* atheism, he killed them for Communism, his
> political ideology. People usually have to believe in _something_ to *have* a
> reason for tyranny, oppression, and violence.
>
> But it's certainly unfair to contrast atheists with Christians in a way that
> doesn't take into account that Billy Graham didn't kill any more people than
> Richard Dawkins - *neither* of them has blood on their hands.
>
> Religion is a cause that gives people a reason to do things. Good things, like
> those done by Albert Schweitzer or Mother Theresa. And, at one time in the
> distant past, bad things - when people held _power_ in the name of religion and
> used force to hold on to that power.
Yes. If you're a king or emperor who claims to have been appointed by God,
anybody who doesn't believe in God, or believes in another God, is a
threat. This is why so many people were burned at the stake by both sides
during the Reformation.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363623 is a reply to message #363607] |
Fri, 16 February 2018 09:01 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:44:51 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 Feb 2018 08:56:35 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2018-02-16, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/02/2018 21:14, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> > Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> > <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 15/02/2018 16:53, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>> A familiar and common emotion which religious worship resembles is the
>>>> >>> love of a child for his parents.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Perhaps it is that lack of parental warmth causes the make-believe
>>>> >> world of religion?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > I fail to understand the hostility non-religious people have toward
>>>> > religious. I'm not especially religious myself, and certainly not a bible
>>>> > thumper, but my feeling is that you believe what you want and I'll believe
>>>> > what I want. I could make fun of athiests, too, but what would be the
>>>> > point?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> There is no hostility in identifying the mentally ill who live in
>>>> their own world of make-believe.
>>>>
>>>> The two cancers of make believe, monarchy and religion have held
>>>> back the human race for centuries by their wars destroying older
>>>> civilisations and the accumulated knowledge thereof. The Roman
>>>> Catholic church has been especially notorious in that respect; witness
>>>> the attacks on Leonardo Da Vinci.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You have a very distorted view of history. After the fall of the Roman
>>> Empire it was the monasteries that kept whatever learning there was alive
>>> in Europe.
>>>
>>
>> Ehh, No. Before the Fall of the western Roman Empire, the monks had
>> made attempts to extinguish ancient learning. They had gone through
>> the Library of Alexandria, removed any books that disagreed with
>> their views and burned them, one of the last classic philosophers,
>> was executed by having her skin removed with sharp sea-shells for
>> disgreeing with the monks.
>
> Now let's see, there are two possible dates for the burning of the
> Library. One of them is 48BC. Are you saying that there were lots of
> influential Christian monks in Alexandrial in 48 BC? The other was
> 270 AD. In 270AD the Roman persecution of Christians was at its peak.
> Are you suggesting that there were monasteries functioning in the
> Roman empire at that time?
>
> As for "one of the last classic philosophers", if you're on about
> Hypatia, the library had long since been burned by her time, and
> nobody is aware of any significant contributions to knowledge that she
> might have made.
>
>> There have been several books and TV films on the subject recently.
Fascinating. There were more than 2 burnings of that library from what
I have read. And what was done to her, the people doing it were filth
and should tortured in the same way for it.
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