| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361971 is a reply to message #360036] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 12:10   |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:28:54 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2018-01-29, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 18:42:49 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>> And what is your objection to actually counting the number of items
>>>> you have and if it's over 8 stand in line with everybody else?
>>>
>>> If I was boss I'd tell the cashiers if this happens to inform the
>>> customer he has more than the required number of items and tell him
>>> next time to use another line. But serve him/her anyway. I think it
>>> would be okay to reject him/her the next time if the cashier
>>> remembers that customer.
>>>
>>> To expand it a little, the rule is a little tricky. Although the sign
>>> says "Max. 8 items" that does not apply if this is the only open
>>> line. Which it often is, so you are good with 20 items then.
>>
>> Then there is the natural ambiguities. Is a six-pack of soda pop
>> a single item or six items?
>
> In the UK, the tins (US: cans) are marked "Not for individual sale",
> so that one's easy.
>
tin of beans, can of soup? A Potato/tomato issue?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361972 is a reply to message #361920] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 12:11 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:51:56 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 17:20:50 GMT
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>>> I hope there's a special circle in Hell reserved for designers of
>>>> web pages that disable your back button.
>>>
>>> That circle will be less special than the one reserved for designers
>>> of web pages that disable 'paste' in the username and password box.
>>
>> A seething pit is required for those who use focus grabs, with
>> extra toppings for those who allow that to cause the browser to grab focus
>> from another application.
>>
>
> I'm not sure there is a good answer. The DDD debugger front-end has an
> option for focus on click vs focus on move cursor to window, and these both
> have weaknesses. Sometimes when I open a window, for example a browser, I'd
> like it to open in the background while I continue what I'm doing, and
> sometimes I like it to grab focus. What I need is a UI that can read my
> mind.
Yeah, instead it pops up in front of everything. Typically blocking me
from completing what I was doing.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361973 is a reply to message #361955] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 12:17 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 15:07:36 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 18:42:49 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>> And what is your objection to actually counting the number of items
>>> you have and if it's over 8 stand in line with everybody else?
>>
>> If I was boss I'd tell the cashiers if this happens to inform the
>> customer he has more than the required number of items and tell him next
>> time to use another line. But serve him/her anyway. I think it would be
>> okay to reject him/her the next time if the cashier remembers that customer.
>>
>> To expand it a little, the rule is a little tricky. Although the sign
>> says "Max. 8 items" that does not apply if this is the only open
>> line. Which it often is, so you are good with 20 items then.
>
> Then there is the natural ambiguities. Is a six-pack of soda pop
> a single item or six items?
One item as they are in a package.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361982 is a reply to message #361870] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 14:44 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 2018-01-28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2018-01-28, Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
....
>> I eschew self-checkouts for one simple reason: the machine has a
>> nervous breakdown if I don't bag my purchases. When I tell the bagger
>> "No bag please; I need it loose in the cart", he's pleased.
>
> If I'm not buying a large amount of groceries, I'll often ride my bicycle
> to the store wearing a backpack. "No bag, I'll put them right into the
> pack," I'll say. The cashier is happy to oblige.
Same here. I tend to move around by bicycle, and I almost always wear
a backpack.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361983 is a reply to message #361968] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 14:46 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On 29 Jan 2018 16:53:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
[snip]
> I've never gotten into panniers for whatever reason - probably their
> bulk when you don't need them. And I've never felt the need - if I
> need to carry more stuff I have an 80-cubic-foot backpack which I've
> learned how to balance. With it I can take 30 empty wine bottles to
> the recycling depot. I have a rack but never use it - I can't seem
> to tie things down stably on it.
80 cubic feet?
Either a typo or interesting to see!
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362007 is a reply to message #361955] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 18:47 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 18:42:49 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>> And what is your objection to actually counting the number of items
>>> you have and if it's over 8 stand in line with everybody else?
>>
>> If I was boss I'd tell the cashiers if this happens to inform the
>> customer he has more than the required number of items and tell him next
>> time to use another line. But serve him/her anyway. I think it would be
>> okay to reject him/her the next time if the cashier remembers that customer.
>>
>> To expand it a little, the rule is a little tricky. Although the sign
>> says "Max. 8 items" that does not apply if this is the only open
>> line. Which it often is, so you are good with 20 items then.
>
> Then there is the natural ambiguities. Is a six-pack of soda pop
> a single item or six items?
>
Not really ambiguous - do you scan it once of six times? Same with box of
ice-cream bars, etc.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362008 is a reply to message #361968] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 18:47 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-01-28, Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 28 Jan 2018 18:48:12 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If I'm not buying a large amount of groceries, I'll often ride my bicycle
>>> to the store wearing a backpack. "No bag, I'll put them right into the
>>> pack," I'll say. The cashier is happy to oblige.
>>
>> I rode a bike wearing a backpack once.
>>
>> Exactly once.
>>
>> Racks and panniers are where it's at. I used to haul all the
>> groceries for two people from Guilderland (N.Y.) to New Salem in two
>> wire panniers. I packed more cleverly then, and one could still get
>> paper bags that would let you pile stuff above the top of the pannier.
>> Now I put above-the-pannier stuff in plastic bags, and tie them down
>> by the handles.
>
> I've never gotten into panniers for whatever reason - probably their
> bulk when you don't need them. And I've never felt the need - if I
> need to carry more stuff I have an 80-cubic-foot backpack which I've
> learned how to balance. With it I can take 30 empty wine bottles to
> the recycling depot.
Weekly trip?
> I have a rack but never use it - I can't seem
> to tie things down stably on it.
>
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362016 is a reply to message #361970] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 20:15 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-01-29, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:53:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I've never gotten into panniers for whatever reason - probably their
>> bulk when you don't need them. And I've never felt the need - if I
>> need to carry more stuff I have an 80-cubic-foot backpack which I've
>> learned how to balance. With it I can take 30 empty wine bottles to
>> the recycling depot. I have a rack but never use it - I can't seem
>> to tie things down stably on it.
>
> Cyle any distance with a full load and a) you'll get a sweaty back; b)
> you'll (hopefully) appreciate the benefit of keeping the load lower.
Roger on the sweaty back. But lately the only moisture is from rain.
And I do know about keeping a low center of gravity when loading a
pack - for hiking as well as cycling.
> Panniers were invented for a reason (no, not just for carrying French
> sticks back from the bakery).
I'm sure they were. But I don't carry large loads often enough
to justify the effort of setting them up.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362018 is a reply to message #361983] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 20:15 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-01-29, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2018 16:53:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> I've never gotten into panniers for whatever reason - probably their
>> bulk when you don't need them. And I've never felt the need - if I
>> need to carry more stuff I have an 80-cubic-foot backpack which I've
>> learned how to balance. With it I can take 30 empty wine bottles to
>> the recycling depot. I have a rack but never use it - I can't seem
>> to tie things down stably on it.
>
> 80 cubic feet?
>
> Either a typo or interesting to see!
Yup, typo. 80 liters.
But it is about the size of an 80-cubic-foot scuba tank...
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362031 is a reply to message #361968] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 23:04 |
Joy Beeson
Messages: 159
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 29 Jan 2018 16:53:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> I've never gotten into panniers for whatever reason - probably their
> bulk when you don't need them.
In theory, mine fold flat when not in use. But the easiest way to
attach reflectors was to put bolts through the hinges; it would
probably take twenty minutes and special tools to make the bike fit on
a KABS rack -- particularly since the bolts aren't stainless steel.
But KABS doesn't have racks, and I don't like the idea of using my
bike for a bumper anyway. Not to mention that I keep one pannier
lined with insulation that takes a while to install and wouldn't be
suitable for keeping my ice cold while I'm on the bus.
(For some reason, it's illegal to put a bicycle inside a bus. I had
thought I could just buy it a ticket and wheel it aboard.)
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362043 is a reply to message #361906] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 05:15 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 28 Jan 2018 22:15:31 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:
> Ireland used Uk currency up the early 1990s. There was a strip on the
> botton that had, to the best of my memory, "One pound sterling payabe
> to the bearer in London"
"I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one pound" signed
by the governor of the Bank of England. It stopped meaning anything when
Sterling went off the gold standard.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362047 is a reply to message #362043] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 08:02 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-01-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 28 Jan 2018 22:15:31 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> Ireland used Uk currency up the early 1990s. There was a strip on the
>> botton that had, to the best of my memory, "One pound sterling payabe
>> to the bearer in London"
>
> "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one pound" signed
> by the governor of the Bank of England. It stopped meaning anything when
> Sterling went off the gold standard.
>
Another date was when the British stopped putting any silver in their
coins. The worst coins I ever experienced were Italian Lira coins,
without hardly any weight. I think the British change was sometime
after WWII. I have a magnet on a string in my pocket now, to save
bending. It will pick up coins, I suppose the nickel content.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362048 is a reply to message #362031] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 09:09 |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 04:04:58 GMT, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2018 16:53:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> I've never gotten into panniers for whatever reason - probably their
>> bulk when you don't need them.
>
> In theory, mine fold flat when not in use. But the easiest way to
> attach reflectors was to put bolts through the hinges; it would
> probably take twenty minutes and special tools to make the bike fit on
> a KABS rack -- particularly since the bolts aren't stainless steel.
> But KABS doesn't have racks, and I don't like the idea of using my
> bike for a bumper anyway. Not to mention that I keep one pannier
> lined with insulation that takes a while to install and wouldn't be
> suitable for keeping my ice cold while I'm on the bus.
>
> (For some reason, it's illegal to put a bicycle inside a bus. I had
> thought I could just buy it a ticket and wheel it aboard.)
>
Civilised countries (i.e. not ours) have busses with bike racks and/or
trailers.
http://www.breconbeacons.org/beacons-bus
Too late.
Ah well, seems some parts of the US are better
https://www.metrotransit.org/bicycle-racks-on-buses-and-trai ns
and Oz
https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/projects/buses/bikes-on-buses/
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362050 is a reply to message #361955] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 09:43 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 18:42:49 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>> And what is your objection to actually counting the number of items
>>> you have and if it's over 8 stand in line with everybody else?
>>
>> If I was boss I'd tell the cashiers if this happens to inform the
>> customer he has more than the required number of items and tell him next
>> time to use another line. But serve him/her anyway. I think it would be
>> okay to reject him/her the next time if the cashier remembers that customer.
>>
>> To expand it a little, the rule is a little tricky. Although the sign
>> says "Max. 8 items" that does not apply if this is the only open
>> line. Which it often is, so you are good with 20 items then.
>
> Then there is the natural ambiguities. Is a six-pack of soda pop
> a single item or six items?
I would say one item because you only have to swipe once. If you had
to swipe each bottle, then it would be 6 items.
/BAH
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362056 is a reply to message #362031] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 10:03 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2018 16:53:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> I've never gotten into panniers for whatever reason - probably their
>> bulk when you don't need them.
>
> In theory, mine fold flat when not in use. But the easiest way to
> attach reflectors was to put bolts through the hinges; it would
> probably take twenty minutes and special tools to make the bike fit on
> a KABS rack -- particularly since the bolts aren't stainless steel.
> But KABS doesn't have racks, and I don't like the idea of using my
> bike for a bumper anyway. Not to mention that I keep one pannier
> lined with insulation that takes a while to install and wouldn't be
> suitable for keeping my ice cold while I'm on the bus.
>
> (For some reason, it's illegal to put a bicycle inside a bus. I had
> thought I could just buy it a ticket and wheel it aboard.)
>
A lot of busses now have racks on the back to carry passengers' bikes.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362059 is a reply to message #362047] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 10:54 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 30 Jan 2018 13:02:44 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-01-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 28 Jan 2018 22:15:31 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Ireland used Uk currency up the early 1990s. There was a strip on the
>>> botton that had, to the best of my memory, "One pound sterling payabe
>>> to the bearer in London"
>>
>> "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one pound" signed
>> by the governor of the Bank of England. It stopped meaning anything when
>> Sterling went off the gold standard.
>>
>
> Another date was when the British stopped putting any silver in their
> coins. The worst coins I ever experienced were Italian Lira coins,
> without hardly any weight. I think the British change was sometime
> after WWII. I have a magnet on a string in my pocket now, to save
> bending. It will pick up coins, I suppose the nickel content.
Many of the smaller Lira coins were made of aluminum around 1970. No
idea if they still are.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362060 is a reply to message #362059] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 11:24 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
> On 30 Jan 2018 13:02:44 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2018-01-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 28 Jan 2018 22:15:31 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ireland used Uk currency up the early 1990s. There was a strip on the
>>>> botton that had, to the best of my memory, "One pound sterling payabe
>>>> to the bearer in London"
>>>
>>> "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one pound" signed
>>> by the governor of the Bank of England. It stopped meaning anything when
>>> Sterling went off the gold standard.
>>>
>>
>> Another date was when the British stopped putting any silver in their
>> coins. The worst coins I ever experienced were Italian Lira coins,
>> without hardly any weight. I think the British change was sometime
>> after WWII. I have a magnet on a string in my pocket now, to save
>> bending. It will pick up coins, I suppose the nickel content.
>
> Many of the smaller Lira coins were made of aluminum around 1970. No
> idea if they still are.
Italy is on the Euro, so there haven't been lira for decades.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362069 is a reply to message #361817] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 12:51 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 1/27/2018 6:50 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 19:02:26 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Why do I love them?
>>
>> 1. Faster
>> 2. I don't get bored watching someone else
>> do what I can do for myself.
>> 3. Machine smarter than the checkout people.
>
> I eschew self-checkouts for one simple reason: the machine has a
> nervous breakdown if I don't bag my purchases. When I tell the bagger
> "No bag please; I need it loose in the cart", he's pleased.
>
"Would you like fries with that???" ;-)
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362076 is a reply to message #362059] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 14:15 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-01-30, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 30 Jan 2018 13:02:44 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2018-01-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 28 Jan 2018 22:15:31 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ireland used Uk currency up the early 1990s. There was a strip on the
>>>> botton that had, to the best of my memory, "One pound sterling payabe
>>>> to the bearer in London"
>>>
>>> "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one pound" signed
>>> by the governor of the Bank of England. It stopped meaning anything when
>>> Sterling went off the gold standard.
>>>
>>
>> Another date was when the British stopped putting any silver in their
>> coins. The worst coins I ever experienced were Italian Lira coins,
>> without hardly any weight. I think the British change was sometime
>> after WWII. I have a magnet on a string in my pocket now, to save
>> bending. It will pick up coins, I suppose the nickel content.
>
> Many of the smaller Lira coins were made of aluminum around 1970. No
> idea if they still are.
Italy is part of the Euro now, but I would think will revert to the
Lira some time. Italy is not Germany, and never was.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362077 is a reply to message #361966] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 14:34 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 2018-01-29, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2018-01-29, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2018-01-27, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> ...
>>> Case in point: I recently had to re-work some code to ensure that a
>>> TCP/IP message went out with a single send(), because the author of
>>> the code on the other end assumed that it was a datagram that was
>>> guaranteed to all come in with a single recv(). Since said programmer
>>> works for $MEGACORP, references to documentation of TCP/IP's streaming
>>> nature fell on deaf ears. ("We don't care, we don't have to...")
>>
>> With that mistake, there's bound to be a number of others :-/
>
> "That's not a bug, it's a feature!"
>
> Their official line was that since the 1200-byte message I was sending
> was smaller than the MTU, it would be guaranteed to get to them in one
> piece, thereby eliminating any need to worry about re-assembling packets.
Isn't the Internet MTU just guaranteed to be 578 or more? But perhaps
$MEGACORP got additional guarantees ...
> Mind you, the data records they're sending me are several thousand bytes
> long.
Perhaps a different team is responsible for generating those.
> I don't know whether they come across in one piece - and frankly,
> my dear, I don't give a damn. _My_ code is smart enough to re-assemble
> packets.
The documentation and teaching around TCP could have been better.
It took me years to figure it out by myself. Or rather, by reading
Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated vol. 1 (which is his best book by far).
In a way I'm not surprised that many never figured it out.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362079 is a reply to message #361793] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 14:41 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 4:39:29 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> I know someone who was a cashier and was handed a $100 bill. He
>> didn't like the feel of it, and called his mgr for approval.
>
> This millenia they have tools to prevent this (iodine markers and
> security features in the bills).
There was a news article that counterfeiters are ahead of that
and beating some the security features.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362080 is a reply to message #361803] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 14:44 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 6:12:35 PM UTC-5, John Levine wrote:
> I live in the US and have never had a store refuse a $50 or $100 bill,
> and I've never gotten a counterfeit bill from a US bank.
My friends have been burned with $100 counterfeits.
MANY stores, especially moderately priced / individually owned places,
will not take $50 or $100 bills. For one thing, it's hard for them
to change them, for another, there is the risk of counterfeiting.
Many places these days are happy to take a credit card.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362085 is a reply to message #362077] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 14:44 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
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On 2018-01-30, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-01-29, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2018-01-29, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 2018-01-27, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> Case in point: I recently had to re-work some code to ensure that a
>>>> TCP/IP message went out with a single send(), because the author of
>>>> the code on the other end assumed that it was a datagram that was
>>>> guaranteed to all come in with a single recv(). Since said programmer
>>>> works for $MEGACORP, references to documentation of TCP/IP's streaming
>>>> nature fell on deaf ears. ("We don't care, we don't have to...")
>>>
>>> With that mistake, there's bound to be a number of others :-/
>>
>> "That's not a bug, it's a feature!"
>>
>> Their official line was that since the 1200-byte message I was sending
>> was smaller than the MTU, it would be guaranteed to get to them in one
>> piece, thereby eliminating any need to worry about re-assembling packets.
>
> Isn't the Internet MTU just guaranteed to be 578 or more? But perhaps
> $MEGACORP got additional guarantees ...
It's usually 1536 or thereabouts, isn't it?
>> Mind you, the data records they're sending me are several thousand bytes
>> long.
>
> Perhaps a different team is responsible for generating those.
>
>> I don't know whether they come across in one piece - and frankly,
>> my dear, I don't give a damn. _My_ code is smart enough to re-assemble
>> packets.
>
> The documentation and teaching around TCP could have been better.
> It took me years to figure it out by myself. Or rather, by reading
> Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated vol. 1 (which is his best book by far).
> In a way I'm not surprised that many never figured it out.
It does take a bit of adjustment to wrap your head around the concept
of streams. But if you're doing TCP, it's just one of those things
that you should bloody well learn.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: high finance, was Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362086 is a reply to message #361869] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 14:51 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 12:49:47 PM UTC-5, John Levine wrote:
>>> I've seen plenty of stores (and especially gas stations) with signs
>>> saying that they won't take anything bigger than a $20. Maybe it's a
>>> regional thing, or you hang out in more affluent neighborhoods.
>
> I live in central New York state. Affluent, we ain't.
I dare suggest that your area has lower crime and more people
know each other--as opposed to a more urban area with more crime
and more anonymity.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362087 is a reply to message #361955] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 14:51 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
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On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 8:07:38 AM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>> To expand it a little, the rule is a little tricky. Although the sign
>> says "Max. 8 items" that does not apply if this is the only open
>> line. Which it often is, so you are good with 20 items then.
> Then there is the natural ambiguities. Is a six-pack of soda pop
> a single item or six items?
I remember once seeing a Ziggy cartoon where the cashier tells Ziggy he can't
bring his order through the express line, because it consists of a carton of
eggs with a dozen eggs in it.
John Savard
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362090 is a reply to message #362076] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 15:17 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 30 Jan 2018 19:15:46 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-01-30, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 30 Jan 2018 13:02:44 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-01-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On 28 Jan 2018 22:15:31 GMT
>>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Ireland used Uk currency up the early 1990s. There was a strip on the
>>>> > botton that had, to the best of my memory, "One pound sterling payabe
>>>> > to the bearer in London"
>>>>
>>>> "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one pound" signed
>>>> by the governor of the Bank of England. It stopped meaning anything when
>>>> Sterling went off the gold standard.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Another date was when the British stopped putting any silver in their
>>> coins. The worst coins I ever experienced were Italian Lira coins,
>>> without hardly any weight. I think the British change was sometime
>>> after WWII. I have a magnet on a string in my pocket now, to save
>>> bending. It will pick up coins, I suppose the nickel content.
>>
>> Many of the smaller Lira coins were made of aluminum around 1970. No
>> idea if they still are.
>
> Italy is part of the Euro now, but I would think will revert to the
> Lira some time. Italy is not Germany, and never was.
Well, yes, Marks rather than Lira.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362095 is a reply to message #362077] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 16:31 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:34:52 +0000, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> The documentation and teaching around TCP could have been better.
> It took me years to figure it out by myself. Or rather, by reading
> Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated vol. 1 (which is his best book by far). In a
> way I'm not surprised that many never figured it out.
Strangely, I was giving an introductory lecture on TCP/IP this morning. I
was using notes given to me by someone else; I wish I'd used my own.
I've just given the students a set of my notes 'for revision'.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362096 is a reply to message #362076] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 16:44 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
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On 30 Jan 2018 19:15:46 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> Many of the smaller Lira coins were made of aluminum around 1970. No
>> idea if they still are.
When I was in Italy in the 80s I was Lira-Millionaire thinking of my bank
account at home. ;-)
> Italy is part of the Euro now, but I would think will revert to the
> Lira some time. Italy is not Germany, and never was.
From 1939-1945 they tried though. ;-)
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
the directions to your house include "turn off the paved road".
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362097 is a reply to message #362085] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 16:47 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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On 30 Jan 2018 19:44:04 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> On 2018-01-30, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2018-01-29, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> Their official line was that since the 1200-byte message I was sending
>>> was smaller than the MTU, it would be guaranteed to get to them in one
>>> piece, thereby eliminating any need to worry about re-assembling packets.
>>
>> Isn't the Internet MTU just guaranteed to be 578 or more? But perhaps
>> $MEGACORP got additional guarantees ...
>
> It's usually 1536 or thereabouts, isn't it?
Unless you're doing directly (not pass it through a WIFI-router) DSL or
similar. Then you might want to set it to 1492.
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
the directions to your house include "turn off the paved road".
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362098 is a reply to message #362077] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 17:00 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
> The documentation and teaching around TCP could have been better.
> It took me years to figure it out by myself. Or rather, by reading
> Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated vol. 1 (which is his best book by far).
> In a way I'm not surprised that many never figured it out.
the last product we were doing before leaving IBM was HA/CMP
including cluster scaleup for both scientific/technical (with national
labs) and commercial (with RDBMS vendors). This is reference to
JAN1992 cluster scaleup meeting in Ellison's conference room
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
by the end of the month, cluster scaleup was transferred (to be
announced as IBM supercomputer for scientific/technical *ONLY*) and we
were told we couldn't work on anything with more than four
processors. 17Feb1992 press
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters1
11May1992
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters2
we leave IBM a few months later. Later two of the Oracle people (from
the Ellison meeting) have left and are at small client/server startup
responsible for something called commerce server. We get brought in as
consultants because they want to do payment transactions on their
server. The small client/server startup had also invented some
technology they called "SSL" they want to use, the result is now
frequently referred to as "electronic commerce".
part of the effort was doing ha/cmp like availability for servers,
routing, partitioning, etc. Originally was going to be advertise
multiple routes ... but in the middle of the effort, the backbone
transitions to hierarchical routing ... so remaining was DNS multiple
A-records (list of multiple server ip-addresses for client/browser to
try) ... and servers with multiple connections into different parts of
internet backbone (some countermeasure to partitioning that was occuring
at the time).
I give a class to the browser people (mostly fresh out of college
employees, paper millionaires) ... about programming TCP/IP for
availability ... including DNS multiple A-records (try additional
ip-address on the list if don't get connection). They say that is too
complex. I provide client example code from TAHOE&RENO 4.3
distributions. They still say it is too complex. I make disparaging
remarks that if it isn't in Stevens' book ... they aren't able to do
it. It took another year before getting multiple A-records support added
to the browser.
some past posts mentioning multiple A-records:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#37 How effective is open source crypto?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#22 Hamiltonian path as protection against DOS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay4.htm#comcert17 Merchant Comfort Certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#5 Wildcard SSL Certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#34 Data communications over telegraph circuits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#39 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#15 30 hop limit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#36 MAC and SSL
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#67 SSL vs. SSL over tcp/ip
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#44 latest Principles of Operation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#34 what does xp do when system is copying
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#67 what does xp do when system is copying
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#13 What do ATMS and card readers use?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#34 Builders v. Breakers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009d.html#60 Lack of bit field instructions in x86 instruction set because of patents ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009n.html#41 Follow up
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009n.html#43 Status of Arpanet/Internet in 1976?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#29 Check out Computer glitch to cause flight delays across U.S. - MarketWatch
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#66 What is the protocal for GMT offset in SMTP (e-mail) header
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#36 Favourite computer history books?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#76 towards https everywhere and strict transport security (was: Has there been a change in US banking regulations recently?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#9 The IETF is probably the single element in the global equation of technology competition than has resulted in the INTERNET
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#56 VAXen on the Internet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#29 Dennis Ritchie's Wonderful Web Pages
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#64 Maintenance at two in the afternoon? On a Friday?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#42 z/OS's basis for TCP/IP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#68 PC/mainframe browser(s) was Re: 360/20, was 1132 printer history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#29 SNA vs TCP/IP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#23 Commentary--time to build a more secure Internet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#45 Western Union envisioned internet functionality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016g.html#49 "I used a real computer at home...and so will you" (Popular Science May 1967)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017b.html#21 Pre-internet email and usenet (was Re: How to choose the best news server for this newsgroup in 40tude Dialog?)
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362099 is a reply to message #362098] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 17:20 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#105 Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983
more multiple A-record ...
one of the first early e-commerce server installations was large
sporting goods company that was doing lots of sunday football
advertising and planning on seeing lots of server traffic during half
time.
a problem at the time was that a lot of the major ISPs were still taking
down regional centers on sunday during the day for maintenance (sort of
on rolling schedule) ... which was guaranteed to have some of the
redundant server connections offline.
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362104 is a reply to message #362015] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 18:37 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
> On 2018-01-29, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> Or http://willitblend.com/
>
> Ohhhhh-kayyyy...
Huh. I get there okay but their main site is so keen to sell me
something that it demands the latest in encryption that my old browser
doesn't support. (More Do It Our Way UI design.)
But I should find a way there. When I was in school, I had a job at
the Dairy Science deprtment. One of the projects was to feed rats on
proposed cattle feed, sacrifice the rats and then measure the average
fat in a rat. How do you do that? Blend the rat. The hide just
*does* *not* *blend*. So, cleanly skin the rat, then blend the whole
carcass. Take aliquot sample of the bree for fatty acid analysis.
Every blender we've ever had stalls or dies before it gets any where
near the level of "whole rat". I keep buying them, returning or
scrapping them and once again repairing the circa 1950 Sears Roebuck
blender.
Did see an ad once for a gasoline engine-powered blender with
handlebars. Oh, no, another gas engine to maintain. Forget it. So
we're still in the market for a blender that will make a few quarts of
pesto every year without having a stroke.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362111 is a reply to message #362085] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 21:45 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 1/30/2018 1:44 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2018-01-30, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2018-01-29, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
>>
>>> I don't know whether they come across in one piece - and frankly,
>>> my dear, I don't give a damn. _My_ code is smart enough to re-assemble
>>> packets.
>>
>> The documentation and teaching around TCP could have been better.
>> It took me years to figure it out by myself. Or rather, by reading
>> Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated vol. 1 (which is his best book by far).
>> In a way I'm not surprised that many never figured it out.
>
> It does take a bit of adjustment to wrap your head around the concept
> of streams. But if you're doing TCP, it's just one of those things
> that you should bloody well learn.
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STREAMS
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362125 is a reply to message #362096] |
Wed, 31 January 2018 04:22 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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On 2018-01-30, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 30 Jan 2018 19:15:46 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Many of the smaller Lira coins were made of aluminum around 1970. No
>>> idea if they still are.
>
> When I was in Italy in the 80s I was Lira-Millionaire thinking of my bank
> account at home. ;-)
>
>> Italy is part of the Euro now, but I would think will revert to the
>> Lira some time. Italy is not Germany, and never was.
>
> From 1939-1945 they tried though. ;-)
Germany took over Italy in 1943, after the allies captured Sicily.
For a better example, take a read of the struggle between the (mostly
German) Emperors and the Italians in the late Middle ages.
One of my daughters travelled by train from Germany to Italy once,
and could not believe the contrast.
Someone was telling me about travelling by train in Japan. There was
an announcement, "The Train will be a minute late." :)
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362127 is a reply to message #362125] |
Wed, 31 January 2018 04:36 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 2:22:44 AM UTC-7, ma...@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-01-30, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On 30 Jan 2018 19:15:46 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>> Italy is part of the Euro now, but I would think will revert to the
>>> Lira some time. Italy is not Germany, and never was.
>> From 1939-1945 they tried though. ;-)
> Germany took over Italy in 1943, after the allies captured Sicily.
And, at the other end, Italy was trying to make the trains run on time ever
since 1926.
John Savard
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #362129 is a reply to message #362080] |
Wed, 31 January 2018 08:31 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 6:12:35 PM UTC-5, John Levine wrote:
>
>> I live in the US and have never had a store refuse a $50 or $100 bill,
>> and I've never gotten a counterfeit bill from a US bank.
>
> My friends have been burned with $100 counterfeits.
>
> MANY stores, especially moderately priced / individually owned places,
> will not take $50 or $100 bills. For one thing, it's hard for them
> to change them, for another, there is the risk of counterfeiting.
>
> Many places these days are happy to take a credit card.
>
The latest scam around here is to overlay a fake reader over
an existing card reader. this has happened at gas stations
and ATMs.
Cash is just fine with me. Noone can trace my purchasing habits
and noone can "steal" a card number.
/BAH
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