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Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363875 is a reply to message #363867] Mon, 19 February 2018 03:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
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On 2018-02-19, AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
> On 16/02/2018 00:38, JimP wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 15:22:36 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Not all people who believe in God are that kind of "Bible thumper", of course. They're just the ones that are the most noticeable.
>>
>> I fully agree. Me forinstance. I don't thump the Bible, its a silly
>> thing to do. Nor force my Christian beliefs on to others, I consider
>> it rude and sinful.
>>
>> Yes, I have seen people thump their Bible while claiming their point,
>> typicaly misquoted or taken out of context, should make me convert to
>> their distortion of said religion. It never works.
>
> I find that when it comes to people trying to convert me to their
> religion I take the line "don't tell me how to live, show me".
> The minister who performed my marriage droned on about god, the
> sacrament, honesty, fidelity etc.
> He had been moved from his previous church for sleeping around with the
> married women in the church, he did the same at the church I was married
> in and was moved on. I believe he did the same in the next church too.
>
> Yup, there was an example for all.
>
> I find that the ones who shout the most are the worst example, the
> people who quietly get on with life helping others without a fuss are
> the best.
>
> Andy
>
>

Reminds me of people who used to arrve in to talk about security, they
woud look around, and point out weak points, and i would think to myself,
now there man who has the mind of a thief.

"I notice that that vehicle has the keys in the ignition, etc"


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363883 is a reply to message #363875] Mon, 19 February 2018 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On 19 Feb 2018 08:40:53 GMT
maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:

> Reminds me of people who used to arrve in to talk about security, they
> woud look around, and point out weak points, and i would think to myself,
> now there man who has the mind of a thief.

One who has found a legal and useful way to get paid for using his
talents.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363904 is a reply to message #363875] Mon, 19 February 2018 23:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
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On 19 Feb 2018 08:40:53 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:

[snip]

> Reminds me of people who used to arrve in to talk about security, they
> woud look around, and point out weak points, and i would think to myself,
> now there man who has the mind of a thief.
>
> "I notice that that vehicle has the keys in the ignition, etc"

If you are going to deal with a situation, it helps to be aware
of it.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363908 is a reply to message #363777] Tue, 20 February 2018 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alfred Falk is currently offline  Alfred Falk
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote in
news:tfug8dt9koon8r8oeq3p5rqui1f9bpp64l@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 10:47:49 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:07:09 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 17/02/2018 14:51, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> > On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 13:26:19 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> > <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 17/02/2018 13:01, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Still evading. I predicted that your reaction to mention of
>>>> >>> Stalin would be to foam at the mouth, stick your fingers in your
>>>> >>> ears, and go La La La. Thank you for being so predictable.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Once again the resort of the presumed religionist is emotional
>>>> >> maladjustment.
>>>> >
>>>> > Still evading Stalin.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Grow up, sonny.
>>>
>>> Still evading. However you have in an earlier post asserted that you
>>> have no beliefs, which marks you as either lying or deluded, so I'm
>>> done with you.
>>>
>>
>> Being agnostic would be "having no beliefs."
>
> Au contraire.
>
> Atheist is not believing in a supreme being. Being agnostic is not
> believing until evidence.
>
> The scenarion I was told best describes it, to me, is this.
>
> An agnostic and an atheist is sitting by the bank of the sea of reeds
> when Moses and the Israelites walk by. Moses parts the water. The
> atheist asks, 'where are the mirrors and wind machines ?'. An agnostic
> says, 'I believe now Oh Lord ! I will follow them into the Promised
> Land !'.

Nope. There are different notions of agnosticism. Fence-sitting until
"evidence" is presented is not really agnosticism. "God is unknown _and_
unknowable" is the proper thing.
The agnostic, along with the atheist -and a lot of thoughtful believers -
would say "I do not know how he did that. An event for which I have no
explanation does not constitute proof of the existance of a god."
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363909 is a reply to message #363908] Tue, 20 February 2018 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 10:12:47 PM UTC-7, Alfred Falk wrote:

> The agnostic, along with the atheist -and a lot of thoughtful believers -
> would say "I do not know how he did that. An event for which I have no
> explanation does not constitute proof of the existance of a god."

Given that it is true that space aliens with unguessable technology could part
the Red Sea, then the conclusion is that God is so powerful, no miracle is
impressive enough to prove that there is a God.

I'm not agnostic enough to be comfortable with that conclusion, however.

John Savard
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363914 is a reply to message #363908] Tue, 20 February 2018 03:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 05:12:44 -0000 (UTC)
Alfred Falk <aefalk@telus.net> wrote:

> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:tfug8dt9koon8r8oeq3p5rqui1f9bpp64l@4ax.com:
>
>> The scenarion I was told best describes it, to me, is this.
>>
>> An agnostic and an atheist is sitting by the bank of the sea of reeds
>> when Moses and the Israelites walk by. Moses parts the water. The
>> atheist asks, 'where are the mirrors and wind machines ?'. An agnostic
>> says, 'I believe now Oh Lord ! I will follow them into the Promised
>> Land !'.
>
> Nope. There are different notions of agnosticism. Fence-sitting until
> "evidence" is presented is not really agnosticism. "God is unknown _and_
> unknowable" is the proper thing.

Not too sure about that, but I'd want better proof than a single
inexplicable event.

> The agnostic, along with the atheist -and a lot of thoughtful believers -
> would say "I do not know how he did that. An event for which I have no
> explanation does not constitute proof of the existance of a god."

Yep, something more convincing would be a regular stream of such
events each preceded by prayer, each one would add a little more weight to
the god side of the case - as long as nobody exposes the hidden wires.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363916 is a reply to message #363908] Tue, 20 February 2018 06:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer

On 20/02/2018 05:12, Alfred Falk wrote:
> An event for which I have no
> explanation does not constitute proof of the existance of a god.

And there it is in a nutshell; reliogion retreats in the face
of ever increasing knowledge and its history of burning people at
the stake for asserting that the sun goes around the earth is
indicative of an immature and over emotional mindset predicated
upon make-believe, such as is exhibited daily by the Jihadists.
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363919 is a reply to message #363908] Tue, 20 February 2018 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 05:12:44 -0000 (UTC), Alfred Falk
<aefalk@telus.net> wrote:

> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:tfug8dt9koon8r8oeq3p5rqui1f9bpp64l@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 10:47:49 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:07:09 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 17/02/2018 14:51, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 13:26:19 +0000, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
>>>> >> <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 17/02/2018 13:01, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Still evading. I predicted that your reaction to mention of
>>>> >>>> Stalin would be to foam at the mouth, stick your fingers in your
>>>> >>>> ears, and go La La La. Thank you for being so predictable.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Once again the resort of the presumed religionist is emotional
>>>> >>> maladjustment.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Still evading Stalin.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Grow up, sonny.
>>>>
>>>> Still evading. However you have in an earlier post asserted that you
>>>> have no beliefs, which marks you as either lying or deluded, so I'm
>>>> done with you.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Being agnostic would be "having no beliefs."
>>
>> Au contraire.
>>
>> Atheist is not believing in a supreme being. Being agnostic is not
>> believing until evidence.
>>
>> The scenarion I was told best describes it, to me, is this.
>>
>> An agnostic and an atheist is sitting by the bank of the sea of reeds
>> when Moses and the Israelites walk by. Moses parts the water. The
>> atheist asks, 'where are the mirrors and wind machines ?'. An agnostic
>> says, 'I believe now Oh Lord ! I will follow them into the Promised
>> Land !'.
>
> Nope. There are different notions of agnosticism. Fence-sitting until
> "evidence" is presented is not really agnosticism. "God is unknown _and_
> unknowable" is the proper thing.
> The agnostic, along with the atheist -and a lot of thoughtful believers -
> would say "I do not know how he did that. An event for which I have no
> explanation does not constitute proof of the existance of a god."

Crap, now you're turning agnosticism into a religion.

What do you call someone who doesn't know and doesn't care?
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363922 is a reply to message #363717] Tue, 20 February 2018 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> On 2018-02-16, Gareth's Downstairs Computer <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 16/02/2018 13:22, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I will admit that this Richard Dawkins fellow is rather on the dogmatic side,
>>>> >
>>>> > As is any pope
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> I think that those without a religious faith should still be more cautious, as
>>>> >> respect for their religious freedom has been attained only relatively recently.
>>>> >
>>>> > Atheism is not a matter of religious freedom; it is the natural state in
>>>> > which to be.
>>>>
>>>> Pascal, one of the great thinkers explained . If God exists,you better
>>>> worship him, if he does not, well, nothing lost.
>>>
>>> Pascal failed to consider the possibilities. If God turns out to be
>>> Zeus or Olorun or Shiva or Slartibartfast, will a believer in Jehovah
>>> be better off than if they had not believed at all?
>>
>>
>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>
> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
> know that with certainty?

The same way I know there is no easter bunny, santa claus, witches
or wizards.
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363926 is a reply to message #363922] Tue, 20 February 2018 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 14:15:57 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> > On 2018-02-16, Gareth's Downstairs Computer <headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 16/02/2018 13:22, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I will admit that this Richard Dawkins fellow is rather on the dogmatic side,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> As is any pope
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> I think that those without a religious faith should still be more cautious, as
>>>> >>> respect for their religious freedom has been attained only relatively recently.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Atheism is not a matter of religious freedom; it is the natural state in
>>>> >> which to be.
>>>> >
>>>> > Pascal, one of the great thinkers explained . If God exists,you better
>>>> > worship him, if he does not, well, nothing lost.
>>>>
>>>> Pascal failed to consider the possibilities. If God turns out to be
>>>> Zeus or Olorun or Shiva or Slartibartfast, will a believer in Jehovah
>>>> be better off than if they had not believed at all?
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>
>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>> know that with certainty?
>
> The same way I know there is no easter bunny, santa claus, witches
> or wizards.

Uhm, I have met several witches over the years. Their magic likely
doesn't work, but the folks do exist.
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363927 is a reply to message #363919] Tue, 20 February 2018 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2018-02-20, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> What do you call someone who doesn't know and doesn't care?

Sounds like that one about the difference between ignorance and apathy.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363929 is a reply to message #363927] Tue, 20 February 2018 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
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On 2018-02-20, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-02-20, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What do you call someone who doesn't know and doesn't care?
>
> Sounds like that one about the difference between ignorance and apathy.
>

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363942 is a reply to message #363919] Tue, 20 February 2018 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
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On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:34:19 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

> Crap, now you're turning agnosticism into a religion.
>
> What do you call someone who doesn't know and doesn't care?

An apatheist.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363948 is a reply to message #363904] Wed, 21 February 2018 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
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On 2018-02-20, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
> On 19 Feb 2018 08:40:53 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Reminds me of people who used to arrve in to talk about security, they
>> woud look around, and point out weak points, and i would think to myself,
>> now there man who has the mind of a thief.
>>
>> "I notice that that vehicle has the keys in the ignition, etc"
>
> If you are going to deal with a situation, it helps to be aware
> of it.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gene Wirchenko

I took it as a threat. This was inside a work area.

I love what I was told by a man who had to do a reskilling course every
year for driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like
that).

"look around when you get down from the loader, and do not step into
holes, you may trip."

In the UK press, that is called 'Pippa Midleton' advice.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363949 is a reply to message #363948] Wed, 21 February 2018 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-02-20, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>> On 19 Feb 2018 08:40:53 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Reminds me of people who used to arrve in to talk about security, they
>>> woud look around, and point out weak points, and i would think to myself,
>>> now there man who has the mind of a thief.
>>>
>>> "I notice that that vehicle has the keys in the ignition, etc"
>>
>> If you are going to deal with a situation, it helps to be aware
>> of it.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Gene Wirchenko
>
> I took it as a threat. This was inside a work area.
>
> I love what I was told by a man who had to do a reskilling course every
> year for driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like
> that).
>
> "look around when you get down from the loader, and do not step into
> holes, you may trip."
>
> In the UK press, that is called 'Pippa Midleton' advice.
>
>

Amazing, though, how often such advice isn't followed.


--
Pete
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363953 is a reply to message #363926] Wed, 21 February 2018 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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JimP wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 14:15:57 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 17 Feb 2018 08:50:40 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-02-16, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 2/16/2018 10:36 AM, maus wrote:
>>>> >> On 2018-02-16, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.not.these.five.words@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>> On 16/02/2018 13:22, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I will admit that this Richard Dawkins fellow is rather on the
dogmatic side,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> As is any pope
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> I think that those without a religious faith should still be more
cautious, as
>>>> >>>> respect for their religious freedom has been attained only relatively
recently.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Atheism is not a matter of religious freedom; it is the natural state
in
>>>> >>> which to be.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Pascal, one of the great thinkers explained . If God exists,you better
>>>> >> worship him, if he does not, well, nothing lost.
>>>> >
>>>> > Pascal failed to consider the possibilities. If God turns out to be
>>>> > Zeus or Olorun or Shiva or Slartibartfast, will a believer in Jehovah
>>>> > be better off than if they had not believed at all?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, as they are all imaginary anyway, does it matter? As a man said
>>>> to me once, its all a little game in your head.
>>>
>>> So you know with certainty that they are all imaginary? How do you
>>> know that with certainty?
>>
>> The same way I know there is no easter bunny, santa claus, witches
>> or wizards.
>
> Uhm, I have met several witches over the years. Their magic likely
> doesn't work, but the folks do exist.

Their herbal remedies did, and do, work.

/BAH
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363955 is a reply to message #363948] Wed, 21 February 2018 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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Senior Member
maus wrote:
> On 2018-02-20, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>> On 19 Feb 2018 08:40:53 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Reminds me of people who used to arrve in to talk about security, they
>>> woud look around, and point out weak points, and i would think to myself,
>>> now there man who has the mind of a thief.
>>>
>>> "I notice that that vehicle has the keys in the ignition, etc"
>>
>> If you are going to deal with a situation, it helps to be aware
>> of it.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Gene Wirchenko
>
> I took it as a threat. This was inside a work area.
>
> I love what I was told by a man who had to do a reskilling course every
> year for driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like
> that).

<snip>

We call it a fork lift.

/BAH
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363956 is a reply to message #363955] Wed, 21 February 2018 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
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jmfbahciv wrote:

> maus wrote:
>
>> driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like that).
>
> We call it a fork lift.

More likely a tele-handler ... a more versatile beast, often fitted with
forks.
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363961 is a reply to message #363955] Wed, 21 February 2018 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
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On 2018-02-21, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> maus wrote:
>> On 2018-02-20, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>>> On 19 Feb 2018 08:40:53 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> Reminds me of people who used to arrve in to talk about security, they
>>>> woud look around, and point out weak points, and i would think to myself,
>>>> now there man who has the mind of a thief.
>>>>
>>>> "I notice that that vehicle has the keys in the ignition, etc"
>>>
>>> If you are going to deal with a situation, it helps to be aware
>>> of it.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Gene Wirchenko
>>
>> I took it as a threat. This was inside a work area.
>>
>> I love what I was told by a man who had to do a reskilling course every
>> year for driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like
>> that).
>
> <snip>
>
> We call it a fork lift.

Different thing, bigger, far more dangerous.
>
> /BAH


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #363962 is a reply to message #363956] Wed, 21 February 2018 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
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On 2018-02-21, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>> maus wrote:
>>
>>> driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like that).
>>
>> We call it a fork lift.
>
> More likely a tele-handler ... a more versatile beast, often fitted with
> forks.
>

You'r right, an elderely moment here.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364008 is a reply to message #363953] Thu, 22 February 2018 03:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: AndyW

On 21/02/2018 16:11, jmfbahciv wrote:

> Their herbal remedies did, and do, work.

In the words of Dara O'Brein:
"Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!"
"Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked
became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and
some potpourri"

Andy
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364022 is a reply to message #364008] Thu, 22 February 2018 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
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AndyW wrote:
> On 21/02/2018 16:11, jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>> Their herbal remedies did, and do, work.
>
> In the words of Dara O'Brein:
> "Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!"
> "Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked
> became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and
> some potpourri"

Do you really think that all old remedies have made it into
the pharmaceutical industry? I have had doctors pooh-pooh
old remedies while writing an expensive prescription which
has unwanted side effects.

/BAH
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364024 is a reply to message #363956] Thu, 22 February 2018 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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Andy Burns wrote:
> jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>> maus wrote:
>>
>>> driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like that).
>>
>> We call it a fork lift.
>
> More likely a tele-handler ... a more versatile beast, often fitted with
> forks.
>
I never heard that term. Is this another English vs. American language
disruption?

/BAH
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364025 is a reply to message #364024] Thu, 22 February 2018 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
Messages: 416
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
jmfbahciv wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> More likely a tele-handler
>
> I never heard that term. Is this another English vs. American language
> disruption?

I did wonder if it might be, e.g.

< https://www.enr.com/ext/resources/News/2018/01-Jan/ENR0129pe ttibone.png>
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364027 is a reply to message #364024] Thu, 22 February 2018 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
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Senior Member
On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 6:46:04 AM UTC-7, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>> maus wrote:

>>>> driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like that).

>>> We call it a fork lift.

>> More likely a tele-handler ... a more versatile beast, often fitted with
>> forks.

> I never heard that term. Is this another English vs. American language
> disruption?

Almost certainly.

I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but instead,
if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an excavator. Or
perhaps just a backhoe.

John Savard
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364028 is a reply to message #364027] Thu, 22 February 2018 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
Messages: 416
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Senior Member
Quadibloc wrote:

> I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but instead,
> if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an excavator. Or
> perhaps just a backhoe.

No not a backhoe (aka JCB digger) possibly a flavour of boomlift with
forks, google seems to understand

<https://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=telehandler>
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364038 is a reply to message #364028] Thu, 22 February 2018 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
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Senior Member
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
> Thunderbird/52.6.0
> In-Reply-To: <e6601f14-8f4b-49b8-8019-b119958dff1e@googlegroups.com>
> Content-Language: en-GB
> X-Received-Bytes: 2122
> X-Received-Body-CRC: 409911828
>
> Quadibloc wrote:
>
>> I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but instead,
>> if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an excavator. Or
>> perhaps just a backhoe.
>
> No not a backhoe (aka JCB digger) possibly a flavour of boomlift with
> forks, google seems to understand
>
> <https://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=telehandler>

Generally called a variable-reach forklift in the US, when I
used to drive one...
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364046 is a reply to message #364022] Thu, 22 February 2018 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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Senior Member
On 2018-02-22, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> AndyW wrote:
>> On 21/02/2018 16:11, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>> Their herbal remedies did, and do, work.
>>
>> In the words of Dara O'Brein:
>> "Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!"
>> "Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked
>> became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and
>> some potpourri"
>
> Do you really think that all old remedies have made it into
> the pharmaceutical industry? I have had doctors pooh-pooh
> old remedies while writing an expensive prescription which
> has unwanted side effects.
>
> /BAH

every Medicine has unwanted side effects.



--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364047 is a reply to message #364027] Thu, 22 February 2018 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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Senior Member
On 2018-02-22, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 6:46:04 AM UTC-7, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>> maus wrote:
>
>>>> > driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like that).
>
>>>> We call it a fork lift.
>
>>> More likely a tele-handler ... a more versatile beast, often fitted with
>>> forks.
>
>> I never heard that term. Is this another English vs. American language
>> disruption?
>
> Almost certainly.
>
> I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but instead,
> if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an excavator. Or
> perhaps just a backhoe.
>
> John Savard

What is called a backhoe in the US is called a JCB in these islads[1]
except, I think, the backhoe bit can be rotated in the British ones,
which is limited in the US ones. At least in the ones I have seen.

[1] From the most popular maker "John Charles Bamford", [2]

[2] There exists a sturdy mobile phone as well, called JCB. Very
sturdy, practically unusable.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364053 is a reply to message #364038] Thu, 22 February 2018 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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Senior Member
On 2018-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>> Thunderbird/52.6.0
>> In-Reply-To: <e6601f14-8f4b-49b8-8019-b119958dff1e@googlegroups.com>
>> Content-Language: en-GB
>> X-Received-Bytes: 2122
>> X-Received-Body-CRC: 409911828
>>
>> Quadibloc wrote:
>>
>>> I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but instead,
>>> if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an excavator. Or
>>> perhaps just a backhoe.
>>
>> No not a backhoe (aka JCB digger) possibly a flavour of boomlift with
>> forks, google seems to understand
>>
>> <https://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=telehandler>
>
> Generally called a variable-reach forklift in the US, when I
> used to drive one...

Highly dangerous in unskilled hands. They have real
Safeguards, such as becoming immobile, sounding alarms, and keeping
records of what they did since leaving the factory. They came into
general use after I stopped using such things.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364065 is a reply to message #364027] Thu, 22 February 2018 16:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Richmond is currently offline  Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On 2/22/2018 11:30 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 6:46:04 AM UTC-7, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>> maus wrote:
>
>>>> > driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like that).
>
>>>> We call it a fork lift.
>
>>> More likely a tele-handler ... a more versatile beast, often fitted with
>>> forks.
>
>> I never heard that term. Is this another English vs. American language
>> disruption?
>
> Almost certainly.
>
> I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but instead,
> if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an excavator. Or
> perhaps just a backhoe.
>

Similar vehicles exist with a basket on the end... to hold a worker.
The worker is lifted up to fix a power transformer on a pole or some
such. This type is informally known as a "cherry picker".

https://raymondhandling.com/dictionary/cherry-picker/


--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364066 is a reply to message #364022] Thu, 22 February 2018 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Richmond is currently offline  Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On 2/22/2018 7:37 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
> AndyW wrote:
>> On 21/02/2018 16:11, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>> Their herbal remedies did, and do, work.
>>
>> In the words of Dara O'Brein:
>> "Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!"
>> "Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked
>> became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and
>> some potpourri"
>
> Do you really think that all old remedies have made it into
> the pharmaceutical industry? I have had doctors pooh-pooh
> old remedies while writing an expensive prescription which
> has unwanted side effects.
>
Aspirin has been around for centuries... and modern medicine still does
not understand all that it does. American Indians used to chew willow
bark to relieve pain. The bark of white willow contains salicin, which
is a chemical similar to aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid). In combination
with the herb's powerful anti-inflammatory plant compounds (called
flavonoids), salicin is thought to be responsible for the pain-relieving
and anti-inflammatory effects of the herb.

--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364081 is a reply to message #360036] Thu, 22 February 2018 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 22 Feb 2018 14:32:02 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-02-22, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> More likely a tele-handler
>>>
>>> I never heard that term. Is this another English vs. American language
>>> disruption?
>>
>> I did wonder if it might be, e.g.
>>
>> < https://www.enr.com/ext/resources/News/2018/01-Jan/ENR0129pe ttibone.png>
>
> Yep, that's one. Called a "telehandler" in the UK.

I've seen those used on the old MythBusters, but I don't remember what
they called it.
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364082 is a reply to message #364028] Thu, 22 February 2018 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:40:31 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

> Quadibloc wrote:
>
>> I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but instead,
>> if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an excavator. Or
>> perhaps just a backhoe.
>
> No not a backhoe (aka JCB digger) possibly a flavour of boomlift with
> forks, google seems to understand
>
> <https://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=telehandler>

To me, it looks like a front end loader with forklifts put on it
instead of a shovel/scoop blade.
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364088 is a reply to message #364082] Fri, 23 February 2018 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
Messages: 416
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
JimP wrote:

> looks like a front end loader with forklifts put on it

"Front end loader" seems to find vehicles missing the telescopic boom
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364089 is a reply to message #363955] Fri, 23 February 2018 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Colin Campbell

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:11:55 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

> maus wrote:
>>
>> I love what I was told by a man who had to do a reskilling course every
>> year for driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like
>> that).
>
> <snip>
>
> We call it a fork lift.
>
> /BAH

In the Great White North, we call it a Variable Reach Rough Terrain, zoom
boom for short. Telehandler
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364097 is a reply to message #364065] Fri, 23 February 2018 03:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
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Senior Member
On 2018-02-22, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 2/22/2018 11:30 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 6:46:04 AM UTC-7, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > maus wrote:
>>
>>>> >> driving what we call a extendible loader (or something like that).
>>
>>>> > We call it a fork lift.
>>
>>>> More likely a tele-handler ... a more versatile beast, often fitted with
>>>> forks.
>>
>>> I never heard that term. Is this another English vs. American language
>>> disruption?
>>
>> Almost certainly.
>>
>> I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but instead,
>> if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an excavator. Or
>> perhaps just a backhoe.
>>
>
> Similar vehicles exist with a basket on the end... to hold a worker.
> The worker is lifted up to fix a power transformer on a pole or some
> such. This type is informally known as a "cherry picker".
>


Several farmers in the UK have been prosecuted for using a teleporter
as a cherrypicker. Similar, but intended for different jobs. Some of
the pictures are Hilarious, real Darwin award stuff.

--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364098 is a reply to message #364066] Fri, 23 February 2018 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
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Senior Member
On 2018-02-22, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 2/22/2018 7:37 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> AndyW wrote:
>>> On 21/02/2018 16:11, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>> Their herbal remedies did, and do, work.
>>>
>>> In the words of Dara O'Brein:
>>> "Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!"
>>> "Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked
>>> became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and
>>> some potpourri"
>>
>> Do you really think that all old remedies have made it into
>> the pharmaceutical industry? I have had doctors pooh-pooh
>> old remedies while writing an expensive prescription which
>> has unwanted side effects.
>>
> Aspirin has been around for centuries... and modern medicine still does
> not understand all that it does. American Indians used to chew willow
> bark to relieve pain. The bark of white willow contains salicin, which
> is a chemical similar to aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid). In combination
> with the herb's powerful anti-inflammatory plant compounds (called
> flavonoids), salicin is thought to be responsible for the pain-relieving
> and anti-inflammatory effects of the herb.
>

I was away when my grandfather died, and there was abit of mystery
about, doctors would not talk about it to non-MDs or nurses, so I
eventually found out. Every night before bed, he would take a couple
of aspirin, with a drink. It destroyed his stomach.

He must have taken aspirin for pain once, and when the pain went
away, just got into the habit.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364113 is a reply to message #364098] Fri, 23 February 2018 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Richmond is currently offline  Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2/23/2018 2:20 AM, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-02-22, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>> On 2/22/2018 7:37 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>> AndyW wrote:
>>>> On 21/02/2018 16:11, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Their herbal remedies did, and do, work.
>>>>
>>>> In the words of Dara O'Brein:
>>>> "Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!"
>>>> "Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked
>>>> became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and
>>>> some potpourri"
>>>
>>> Do you really think that all old remedies have made it into
>>> the pharmaceutical industry? I have had doctors pooh-pooh
>>> old remedies while writing an expensive prescription which
>>> has unwanted side effects.
>>>
>> Aspirin has been around for centuries... and modern medicine still does
>> not understand all that it does. American Indians used to chew willow
>> bark to relieve pain. The bark of white willow contains salicin, which
>> is a chemical similar to aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid). In combination
>> with the herb's powerful anti-inflammatory plant compounds (called
>> flavonoids), salicin is thought to be responsible for the pain-relieving
>> and anti-inflammatory effects of the herb.
>>
>
> I was away when my grandfather died, and there was abit of mystery
> about, doctors would not talk about it to non-MDs or nurses, so I
> eventually found out. Every night before bed, he would take a couple
> of aspirin, with a drink. It destroyed his stomach.
>
> He must have taken aspirin for pain once, and when the pain went
> away, just got into the habit.
>
>

And so now they make buffered aspirin and also recommend you take
aspirin with a meal so the food can mitigate stomach damage.

--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #364114 is a reply to message #364038] Fri, 23 February 2018 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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Senior Member
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>> Thunderbird/52.6.0
>> In-Reply-To: <e6601f14-8f4b-49b8-8019-b119958dff1e@googlegroups.com>
>> Content-Language: en-GB
>> X-Received-Bytes: 2122
>> X-Received-Body-CRC: 409911828
>>
>> Quadibloc wrote:
>>
>>> I think that what is being referred to is not at all a "fork lift", but
instead,
>>> if the results Google is turning up for me are to be believed, an
excavator. Or
>>> perhaps just a backhoe.
>>
>> No not a backhoe (aka JCB digger) possibly a flavour of boomlift with
>> forks, google seems to understand
>>
>> <https://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=telehandler>
>
> Generally called a variable-reach forklift in the US, when I
> used to drive one...

I'm jealous. Did you have fun?

/BAH
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