| Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355210] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 00:00  |
Gary Satterfield
Messages: 5
Registered: December 2017
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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After shuttering my Mac repair and consulting business several years ago, I
recently decided to dig through all the miscellaneous stuff I collected
over the years. The Nubus card you see in the attachments has me scratching
my head about what exactly it is. The only thing I am sure of is that it is
some sort of video card, judging by the Texas Instruments chip (I Googled
it to see what it was). The thing that throws me is the video-out
connection - it appears to be DIN-9, but only in reverse.
Have a look at the pics and see if you can tell me what this weird thing
is! Please? Thank you kindly!
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355212 is a reply to message #355210] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 00:39  |
Clark Martin
Messages: 156
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Best guess, it’s for a large screen monitor (19”, 1024 x 768, large for then). They usually had a custom board since there wasn’t much in the way of standards for that large a size.
Clark Martin
A designated driver on the information Super Highway
> On Nov 30, 2017, at 9:00 PM, Gary Satterfield <amamacwhiz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> After shuttering my Mac repair and consulting business several years ago, I recently decided to dig through all the miscellaneous stuff I collected over the years. The Nubus card you see in the attachments has me scratching my head about what exactly it is. The only thing I am sure of is that it is some sort of video card, judging by the Texas Instruments chip (I Googled it to see what it was). The thing that throws me is the video-out connection - it appears to be DIN-9, but only in reverse.
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355213 is a reply to message #355210] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 04:53 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Combine a versatile Non-VGA Video Controller like that TI chip (it also has a line drawing mode, I presume for vector monitors) with the Brooktree 256 color palette RAMDAC, along with the male DE-9* connector and I'd say you have some rather proprietary 8bit raster graphics display card. Most likely not a vector display card with an 8 bit color raster RAMDAC. ;)
Find the RAM chips and count up how much there is to get some idea of the maximum possible resolutions it could support at 1, 4, 16 and 8 bit color depths.
It could be for a high resolution 1 bit monitor, but why use a DAC that's made for color on it? I've done some searching and the only NuBus video card I could find with a DE-9 is a Radius Full Page Display card, but it has a female instead of a male connector.
There were monitors made with a single DE-9 port and stitches to change between TTL mono/color and analog modes so one monitor would work with any PC video output, usually up to 800x600. Some also supported the oddball Mac video modes which were slightly larger than 640x480 or 800x600. 832x624? I still have such a monitor. IIRC it's the original model of NEC MultiSync. No model designation, just MultiSync. Has a built in cooling fan and a worn out CRT.
Analog RGB video can be done using only 8 pins. That card is certainly not doing any monitor identification through the connector. Might be fixed resolution/colors/frequency. Might support several. Given the age of it, it *might* use the 9 pin VGA pinout. Easy to find with google.
http://www.icpdf.com/icpdf_datasheet_5_datasheet/TMS34061FNL _pdf_1548294/#view
*There is no such thing as a DB-9 connector. The B size is the 25 pin used for Mac SCSI and PC parallel and 25 pin serial ports. The Mac video connector before Apple adopted the VGA standard was a DA-15, also used for PC joysticks. The 15 pin VGA port should properly be called a HDE-15 but most people call it HD-15. Apple's 19 pin floppy drive port was only ever used for that purpose and has no official letter size designation. The guy who has the Big Mess-o-wires website makes a solid state floppy drive replacement and had to reverse engineer that connector to have a large batch of new ones made in China. Thus at one time he had the entire world's supply of new Apple external floppy drive connectors in boxes on his back porch.
On Thursday, November 30, 2017, 10:24:43 PM MST, Gary Satterfield <amamacwhiz@gmail.com> wrote:
After shuttering my Mac repair and consulting business several years ago, I recently decided to dig through all the miscellaneous stuff I collected over the years. The Nubus card you see in the attachments has me scratching my head about what exactly it is. The only thing I am sure of is that it is some sort of video card, judging by the Texas Instruments chip (I Googled it to see what it was). The thing that throws me is the video-out connection - it appears to be DIN-9, but only in reverse.
Have a look at the pics and see if you can tell me what this weird thing is! Please? Thank you kindly!
--
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355214 is a reply to message #355213] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 11:39 |
Gary Satterfield
Messages: 5
Registered: December 2017
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I also thought it strange that there is a small round window on the chip
nearest the TI video controller. The date on the card is 1988 too. :D
On Friday, 1 December 2017 03:53:51 UTC-6, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
>
> Combine a versatile Non-VGA Video Controller like that TI chip (it also
> has a line drawing mode, I presume for vector monitors) with the Brooktree
> 256 color palette RAMDAC, along with the male DE-9* connector and I'd say
> you have some rather proprietary 8bit raster graphics display card. Most
> likely not a vector display card with an 8 bit color raster RAMDAC. ;)
>
> Find the RAM chips and count up how much there is to get some idea of the
> maximum possible resolutions it could support at 1, 4, 16 and 8 bit color
> depths.
>
> It could be for a high resolution 1 bit monitor, but why use a DAC that's
> made for color on it? I've done some searching and the only NuBus video
> card I could find with a DE-9 is a Radius Full Page Display card, but it
> has a female instead of a male connector.
>
> There were monitors made with a single DE-9 port and stitches to change
> between TTL mono/color and analog modes so one monitor would work with any
> PC video output, usually up to 800x600. Some also supported the oddball Mac
> video modes which were slightly larger than 640x480 or 800x600. 832x624? I
> still have such a monitor. IIRC it's the original model of NEC MultiSync.
> No model designation, just MultiSync. Has a built in cooling fan and a worn
> out CRT.
>
> Analog RGB video can be done using only 8 pins. That card is certainly not
> doing any monitor identification through the connector. Might be fixed
> resolution/colors/frequency. Might support several. Given the age of it, it
> *might* use the 9 pin VGA pinout. Easy to find with google.
>
>
> http://www.icpdf.com/icpdf_datasheet_5_datasheet/TMS34061FNL _pdf_1548294/#view
>
> *There is no such thing as a DB-9 connector. The B size is the 25 pin used
> for Mac SCSI and PC parallel and 25 pin serial ports. The Mac video
> connector before Apple adopted the VGA standard was a DA-15, also used for
> PC joysticks. The 15 pin VGA port should properly be called a HDE-15 but
> most people call it HD-15. Apple's 19 pin floppy drive port was only ever
> used for that purpose and has no official letter size designation. The guy
> who has the Big Mess-o-wires website makes a solid state floppy drive
> replacement and had to reverse engineer that connector to have a large
> batch of new ones made in China. Thus at one time he had the entire world's
> supply of new Apple external floppy drive connectors in boxes on his back
> porch.
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2017, 10:24:43 PM MST, Gary Satterfield <
> amama...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>
> After shuttering my Mac repair and consulting business several years ago,
> I recently decided to dig through all the miscellaneous stuff I collected
> over the years. The Nubus card you see in the attachments has me scratching
> my head about what exactly it is. The only thing I am sure of is that it is
> some sort of video card, judging by the Texas Instruments chip (I Googled
> it to see what it was). The thing that throws me is the video-out
> connection - it appears to be DIN-9, but only in reverse.
>
> Have a look at the pics and see if you can tell me what this weird thing
> is! Please? Thank you kindly!
>
--
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355215 is a reply to message #355214] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 11:42 |
mike stedman
Messages: 3
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
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If I had to guess, the window on that chip indicates that it is probably a
UV-erasable EEPROM. It most likely shipped with a sticker to keep it from
being erased, which has now fallen off. I'd probably put a new sticker on
there to block the sunlight and keep it from getting wiped.
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Gary Satterfield <amamacwhiz@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I also thought it strange that there is a small round window on the chip
> nearest the TI video controller. The date on the card is 1988 too. :D
>
> On Friday, 1 December 2017 03:53:51 UTC-6, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
>>
>> Combine a versatile Non-VGA Video Controller like that TI chip (it also
>> has a line drawing mode, I presume for vector monitors) with the Brooktree
>> 256 color palette RAMDAC, along with the male DE-9* connector and I'd say
>> you have some rather proprietary 8bit raster graphics display card. Most
>> likely not a vector display card with an 8 bit color raster RAMDAC. ;)
>>
>> Find the RAM chips and count up how much there is to get some idea of the
>> maximum possible resolutions it could support at 1, 4, 16 and 8 bit color
>> depths.
>>
>> It could be for a high resolution 1 bit monitor, but why use a DAC that's
>> made for color on it? I've done some searching and the only NuBus video
>> card I could find with a DE-9 is a Radius Full Page Display card, but it
>> has a female instead of a male connector.
>>
>> There were monitors made with a single DE-9 port and stitches to change
>> between TTL mono/color and analog modes so one monitor would work with any
>> PC video output, usually up to 800x600. Some also supported the oddball Mac
>> video modes which were slightly larger than 640x480 or 800x600. 832x624? I
>> still have such a monitor. IIRC it's the original model of NEC MultiSync.
>> No model designation, just MultiSync. Has a built in cooling fan and a worn
>> out CRT.
>>
>> Analog RGB video can be done using only 8 pins. That card is certainly
>> not doing any monitor identification through the connector. Might be fixed
>> resolution/colors/frequency. Might support several. Given the age of it, it
>> *might* use the 9 pin VGA pinout. Easy to find with google.
>>
>> http://www.icpdf.com/icpdf_datasheet_5_datasheet/TMS34061FNL
>> _pdf_1548294/#view
>>
>> *There is no such thing as a DB-9 connector. The B size is the 25 pin
>> used for Mac SCSI and PC parallel and 25 pin serial ports. The Mac video
>> connector before Apple adopted the VGA standard was a DA-15, also used for
>> PC joysticks. The 15 pin VGA port should properly be called a HDE-15 but
>> most people call it HD-15. Apple's 19 pin floppy drive port was only ever
>> used for that purpose and has no official letter size designation. The guy
>> who has the Big Mess-o-wires website makes a solid state floppy drive
>> replacement and had to reverse engineer that connector to have a large
>> batch of new ones made in China. Thus at one time he had the entire world's
>> supply of new Apple external floppy drive connectors in boxes on his back
>> porch.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 30, 2017, 10:24:43 PM MST, Gary Satterfield <
>> amama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> After shuttering my Mac repair and consulting business several years ago,
>> I recently decided to dig through all the miscellaneous stuff I collected
>> over the years. The Nubus card you see in the attachments has me scratching
>> my head about what exactly it is. The only thing I am sure of is that it is
>> some sort of video card, judging by the Texas Instruments chip (I Googled
>> it to see what it was). The thing that throws me is the video-out
>> connection - it appears to be DIN-9, but only in reverse.
>>
>> Have a look at the pics and see if you can tell me what this weird thing
>> is! Please? Thank you kindly!
>>
> --
> --
> -----
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
> group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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http://ravuya.com
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355216 is a reply to message #355215] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 11:53 |
William Stillwell
Messages: 32
Registered: June 2016
Karma: 0
|
Member |
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You could also Read the EEPROM and see if there is any plain text
identifiers in it.
William Stillwell
Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida
Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 11:42 AM, mike stedman <ravuya@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I had to guess, the window on that chip indicates that it is probably a
> UV-erasable EEPROM. It most likely shipped with a sticker to keep it from
> being erased, which has now fallen off. I'd probably put a new sticker on
> there to block the sunlight and keep it from getting wiped.
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Gary Satterfield <amamacwhiz@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I also thought it strange that there is a small round window on the chip
>> nearest the TI video controller. The date on the card is 1988 too. :D
>>
>> On Friday, 1 December 2017 03:53:51 UTC-6, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
>>>
>>> Combine a versatile Non-VGA Video Controller like that TI chip (it also
>>> has a line drawing mode, I presume for vector monitors) with the Brooktree
>>> 256 color palette RAMDAC, along with the male DE-9* connector and I'd say
>>> you have some rather proprietary 8bit raster graphics display card. Most
>>> likely not a vector display card with an 8 bit color raster RAMDAC. ;)
>>>
>>> Find the RAM chips and count up how much there is to get some idea of
>>> the maximum possible resolutions it could support at 1, 4, 16 and 8 bit
>>> color depths.
>>>
>>> It could be for a high resolution 1 bit monitor, but why use a DAC
>>> that's made for color on it? I've done some searching and the only NuBus
>>> video card I could find with a DE-9 is a Radius Full Page Display card, but
>>> it has a female instead of a male connector.
>>>
>>> There were monitors made with a single DE-9 port and stitches to change
>>> between TTL mono/color and analog modes so one monitor would work with any
>>> PC video output, usually up to 800x600. Some also supported the oddball Mac
>>> video modes which were slightly larger than 640x480 or 800x600. 832x624? I
>>> still have such a monitor. IIRC it's the original model of NEC MultiSync.
>>> No model designation, just MultiSync. Has a built in cooling fan and a worn
>>> out CRT.
>>>
>>> Analog RGB video can be done using only 8 pins. That card is certainly
>>> not doing any monitor identification through the connector. Might be fixed
>>> resolution/colors/frequency. Might support several. Given the age of it, it
>>> *might* use the 9 pin VGA pinout. Easy to find with google.
>>>
>>> http://www.icpdf.com/icpdf_datasheet_5_datasheet/TMS34061FNL
>>> _pdf_1548294/#view
>>>
>>> *There is no such thing as a DB-9 connector. The B size is the 25 pin
>>> used for Mac SCSI and PC parallel and 25 pin serial ports. The Mac video
>>> connector before Apple adopted the VGA standard was a DA-15, also used for
>>> PC joysticks. The 15 pin VGA port should properly be called a HDE-15 but
>>> most people call it HD-15. Apple's 19 pin floppy drive port was only ever
>>> used for that purpose and has no official letter size designation. The guy
>>> who has the Big Mess-o-wires website makes a solid state floppy drive
>>> replacement and had to reverse engineer that connector to have a large
>>> batch of new ones made in China. Thus at one time he had the entire world's
>>> supply of new Apple external floppy drive connectors in boxes on his back
>>> porch.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2017, 10:24:43 PM MST, Gary Satterfield <
>>> amama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> After shuttering my Mac repair and consulting business several years
>>> ago, I recently decided to dig through all the miscellaneous stuff I
>>> collected over the years. The Nubus card you see in the attachments has me
>>> scratching my head about what exactly it is. The only thing I am sure of is
>>> that it is some sort of video card, judging by the Texas Instruments chip
>>> (I Googled it to see what it was). The thing that throws me is the
>>> video-out connection - it appears to be DIN-9, but only in reverse.
>>>
>>> Have a look at the pics and see if you can tell me what this weird thing
>>> is! Please? Thank you kindly!
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> -----
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>> group.
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mike
> http://ravuya.com
>
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355218 is a reply to message #355216] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 13:37 |
Chris Hanson
Messages: 26
Registered: September 2017
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
My guess is it’s a RasterOps or equivalent two-page display card. From the start Radius cards looked like they were made by Apple in terms of their identifying markings, and even their part numbering scheme.
The best thing you can do is (1) cover the window on the EPROM to ensure it doesn’t get erased by ambient UV and (2) work with someone to read it, either by (a) pulling the ROM and putting it in a programmer or by (b) installing the card in a Mac and reading it with some software.
I think 2b is the easiest strategy, at least if you have a NuBus Mac handy. I believe Joshua Juran’s MacRelix even comes with a tool that can be used to dump a card ROM. If not, it should be easy to write one: A NuBus card’s declaration ROM has to be at a specific point in slot space and follow a specific structure for the card to be recognized—especially for a video card, which needs to be usable by the operating system at boot.
— Chris
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 1, 2017, at 8:53 AM, William Stillwell <ki4swy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You could also Read the EEPROM and see if there is any plain text identifiers in it.
>
> William Stillwell
>
> Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
>
> Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization
>
> Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
>
> Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
>
>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 11:42 AM, mike stedman <ravuya@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If I had to guess, the window on that chip indicates that it is probably a UV-erasable EEPROM. It most likely shipped with a sticker to keep it from being erased, which has now fallen off. I'd probably put a new sticker on there to block the sunlight and keep it from getting wiped.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Gary Satterfield <amamacwhiz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I also thought it strange that there is a small round window on the chip nearest the TI video controller. The date on the card is 1988 too. :D
>>>
>>>> On Friday, 1 December 2017 03:53:51 UTC-6, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
>>>> Combine a versatile Non-VGA Video Controller like that TI chip (it also has a line drawing mode, I presume for vector monitors) with the Brooktree 256 color palette RAMDAC, along with the male DE-9* connector and I'd say you have some rather proprietary 8bit raster graphics display card. Most likely not a vector display card with an 8 bit color raster RAMDAC. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Find the RAM chips and count up how much there is to get some idea of the maximum possible resolutions it could support at 1, 4, 16 and 8 bit color depths.
>>>>
>>>> It could be for a high resolution 1 bit monitor, but why use a DAC that's made for color on it? I've done some searching and the only NuBus video card I could find with a DE-9 is a Radius Full Page Display card, but it has a female instead of a male connector.
>>>>
>>>> There were monitors made with a single DE-9 port and stitches to change between TTL mono/color and analog modes so one monitor would work with any PC video output, usually up to 800x600. Some also supported the oddball Mac video modes which were slightly larger than 640x480 or 800x600. 832x624? I still have such a monitor. IIRC it's the original model of NEC MultiSync. No model designation, just MultiSync. Has a built in cooling fan and a worn out CRT.
>>>>
>>>> Analog RGB video can be done using only 8 pins. That card is certainly not doing any monitor identification through the connector. Might be fixed resolution/colors/frequency. Might support several. Given the age of it, it *might* use the 9 pin VGA pinout. Easy to find with google.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.icpdf.com/icpdf_datasheet_5_datasheet/TMS34061FNL _pdf_1548294/#view
>>>>
>>>> *There is no such thing as a DB-9 connector. The B size is the 25 pin used for Mac SCSI and PC parallel and 25 pin serial ports. The Mac video connector before Apple adopted the VGA standard was a DA-15, also used for PC joysticks. The 15 pin VGA port should properly be called a HDE-15 but most people call it HD-15. Apple's 19 pin floppy drive port was only ever used for that purpose and has no official letter size designation. The guy who has the Big Mess-o-wires website makes a solid state floppy drive replacement and had to reverse engineer that connector to have a large batch of new ones made in China. Thus at one time he had the entire world's supply of new Apple external floppy drive connectors in boxes on his back porch.
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2017, 10:24:43 PM MST, Gary Satterfield <amama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After shuttering my Mac repair and consulting business several years ago, I recently decided to dig through all the miscellaneous stuff I collected over the years. The Nubus card you see in the attachments has me scratching my head about what exactly it is. The only thing I am sure of is that it is some sort of video card, judging by the Texas Instruments chip (I Googled it to see what it was). The thing that throws me is the video-out connection - it appears to be DIN-9, but only in reverse.
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at the pics and see if you can tell me what this weird thing is! Please? Thank you kindly!
>>>
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>> Mike
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>
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355220 is a reply to message #355215] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 17:28 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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That label likely had whatever identifying marks the board ever had. Most likely a copyright notice and firmware version number.
On Friday, December 1, 2017, 9:42:32 AM MST, mike stedman <ravuya@gmail.com> wrote:
If I had to guess, the window on that chip indicates that it is probably a UV-erasable EEPROM. It most likely shipped with a sticker to keep it from being erased, which has now fallen off. I'd probably put a new sticker on there to block the sunlight and keep it from getting wiped.
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #355221 is a reply to message #355215] |
Fri, 01 December 2017 18:26 |
Antonio Rodríguez
Messages: 8
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I agree. Replace the sticker ASAP (specially if you use fluorescent
lighting, which is rich in UV, or if the storage receives direct
sunlight), and DO NOT make photographs of the board with flash (which,
again, generates more UV than visible light, even if in a short burst).
Camera flashes are amazingly powerful. The first run of Raspberry Pi 3
used a power supply regulator with a defective packaging, which let UV
pass. Because of that, tacking a photograph with flash while the
Raspberry was working made it reboot. The currents induced on the
regulator by the UV emitted by the flash made it behave erratically for
a few milliseconds - enough for the main processor to shut down and restart.
By the way: any room devoted to classic computer storage should not use
fluorescent lighting, sunlight or any other source of light rich in UV.
Not only because of EPROMs, but also to keep the cases from yellowing
(also caused by UV). LED lights are ideal (they don't emit UV), but
incandescent bulbs are acceptable.
Sincerely,
Antonio Rodríguez
On 1/12/2017 at 17:42, mike stedman wrote:
> If I had to guess, the window on that chip indicates that it is
> probably a UV-erasable EEPROM. It most likely shipped with a sticker
> to keep it from being erased, which has now fallen off. I'd probably
> put a new sticker on there to block the sunlight and keep it from
> getting wiped.
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| Re: Very old and odd Nubus video card [message #357997 is a reply to message #355210] |
Tue, 05 December 2017 15:10 |
Aoresteen
Messages: 7
Registered: October 2017
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Humm,
The DB-9 reminds me of the Radius One Page Portrait Display for the Mac II
& Mac Plus. I had the Radius Mac Plus OPD back in the day and it used a
DB9 connector.
On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 12:24:46 AM UTC-5, Gary Satterfield wrote:
>
> After shuttering my Mac repair and consulting business several years ago,
> I recently decided to dig through all the miscellaneous stuff I collected
> over the years. The Nubus card you see in the attachments has me scratching
> my head about what exactly it is. The only thing I am sure of is that it is
> some sort of video card, judging by the Texas Instruments chip (I Googled
> it to see what it was). The thing that throws me is the video-out
> connection - it appears to be DIN-9, but only in reverse.
>
> Have a look at the pics and see if you can tell me what this weird thing
> is! Please? Thank you kindly!
>
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