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Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98359 is a reply to message #98260] Sat, 20 July 2013 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stephen Sprunk is currently offline  Stephen Sprunk
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On 20-Jul-13 08:45, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Stephen Sprunk wrote:

>> On 18-Jul-13 09:31, jmfbahciv wrote:

>>> The males sure don't [use condoms]. There's myths out there

>>> which say that using condoms doesn't give full satisfaction.

>>

>> It ain't a myth. I assume you're female?

>

> Yup.


You are unqualified to comment on that specific matter.

> Do female condoms also not give the same sensations?


I don't know; I've never used one or even seen one, nor do I know how
to. I was referring to male condoms, which is what people usually mean
when they don't specify.

>>> so birth control is usually left up to the female.

>>

>> RISUG, when it finally gets approved, will be the first real option

>> to change that. Whether it actually does, though, remains to be

>> seen, especially now that so many states have banned telling kids

>> the truth about birth control (and STDs).

>

> It's the absence of training which is the big problem.


Not entirely; even back in the brief period when truthful sex ed was not
just allowed but actually mandatory, there was still some level of teen
pregnancy because many teens simply didn't have access to (or couldn't
afford) it, even if they knew about it and wanted it.

> Instead the rabids want to control who fucks and when they fuck

> and how many kids they are to produce.


You imply you don't agree with the neocons out one side of your mouth,
but you spout their propaganda out the other side.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98360 is a reply to message #98324] Sat, 20 July 2013 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stephen Sprunk is currently offline  Stephen Sprunk
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On 20-Jul-13 12:07, Andrew Swallow wrote:
> On 20/07/2013 14:45, jmfbahciv wrote: {snip}

>> It's the absence of training which is the big problem. Instead the

>> rabids want to control who fucks and when they fuck and how many

>> kids they are to produce.

>

> They want to do the fun bits. Fun for the person giving the orders

> that is. So they are not interested in doing the work part of the

> teaching.


.... nor do they accept any responsibility for the predictable results of
what they order others to teach (or not teach).

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98361 is a reply to message #97907] Sat, 20 July 2013 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Ibmekon

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:47:39 -0400, Anne & Lynn Wheeler
<lynn@garlic.com> wrote:

> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:

>> and another possible consequence of federal free money ... fueling stock

>> market bubble similar to '29 (fueled by "Brokers' Loans")

<snip>

It seems another "free money" bubble is bursting - is it 1937 all over
again ?

From
http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2013/7/10/mother-of-all- bubbles-pops-mess-ensues.html

"Mother Of All Bubbles Pops, Mess Ensues
Wednesday, July 10, 2013 at 7:13PM

The asset bubbles the Fed’s money-printing and bond-buying binge has
created are spectacular, the risk-taking on Wall Street with other
people’s money a sight to behold. Among the big winners were mortgage
Real Estate Investment Trusts – and those who got fat on extracting
fees. But now the pendulum is swinging back, and the bloodletting has
started. Mortgage REITs are highly leveraged. They borrow short-term
in the repo market at near-zero interest rates, thanks to the Fed,
then turn around and buy long-term government-guaranteed
mortgage-backed securities issued by bailed-out Fannie Mae, Freddie
Mac, and Ginnie Mae. Along the way, they issue more stock and borrow
even more. By distributing 90% of their profits, they avoid having to
pay income taxes. Hence double-digit dividends."


Of course Ireland has had the mother of all property bubbles burst.

Foreclosures were prevented until a loophole in the legislation was
fixed just last month, before the TD's close the Dail for their two
month summer holiday.

46 sec clips of Dail holiday vote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWNaoTlcSqo

The evictions commenced with Ulster Bank notices to quit.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ulster-is-first-maj or-lender-to-send-out-repossession-summonses-29133830.html

And now Ireland can join the new
"have-a-bet-on-someone-going-bust-and-killing-themselves" house
mortgage roulette game.

If you gotta good idea - franchise it for gods sake !
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/commercial-proper ty/green-property-reit-launch-has-come-at-right-time-1.14512 82

What better way to mop up all the empty properties and make a profit.


Carl Goldsworthy
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98363 is a reply to message #98244] Sat, 20 July 2013 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harry is currently offline  harry
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"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-2405AD.08015920072013@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net...
> In article <b4r9llFh1jcU1@mid.individual.net>, "127" <127@586.com>

> wrote:

>

>> Housing bubbles don't normally produce the sort of result we saw in 2008.

>

> The financial wizards are getting better with practice.


In fact we see a lot fewer full depressions than we used to.

There were a lot of them in the century before 1929
and just one very severe recession since then.
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98365 is a reply to message #98250] Sat, 20 July 2013 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harry is currently offline  harry
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"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-2B4E9F.08261920072013@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net...
> In article <601.983T921T6014090@kltpzyxm.invalid>,

> "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

>

>> In article <FPednb4V_eA333XMnZ2dnUVZ7t-XnZ2d@bt.com>,

>> am.swallow@btinternet.com (Andrew Swallow) writes:

>>

>>> The ban on abortion and contraception do feel like the slave breeding

>>> programs that the southern states introduced when the slave trade was

>>> banned. Similar rules.

>>

>> Well, The Economy demands that we keep the population Ponzi scheme

>> going...

>

> Those slaves are going to be a drain mostly. Girls have dropped out of

> High School because they became unwed mothers, or married to lusers

> and had good and productive lives, but it's not the way to bet.


> What "The Economy" needs is a middle class,


Yes.

> but they can't afford to raise enough children

> to middle class standards to keep the beast fed.


They can actually. The middle class survives everything,
even full world wars and full depressions. It’s the lusers
that don’t survive those.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98366 is a reply to message #98254] Sat, 20 July 2013 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
127 is currently offline  127
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"Peter Flass" <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kse06h$6oo$5@dont-email.me...
> On 7/19/2013 11:09 PM, 127 wrote:

>>

>> Most of them never will move to the 3rd world. It's just not possible

>> for the absolute vast bulk of the service sector that is where most of

>> the jobs are now.

>

> So we buy all our stuff from China


Only the simpler stuff, not the military hardware, aircraft,
any of our stuff like roads, bridges, buildings, tho maybe
the steel that goes into those, and none of the movies,
TV series, books, music and very little of the food either.

and get jobs sweeping each others'
> offices?


And providing health care, education, the judicial system,
the police, all the fast food, most of the slow food, all of
the day to day stuff like hair cuts, almost all of the
entertainment, all of the sport, all of the military, etc etc etc.
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98367 is a reply to message #98259] Sat, 20 July 2013 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote

>>> Patrick Scheible wrote

>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote


>>>> > There is "free" and then there is using it. For the

>>>> > pill you have to remember to take it every day at the

>>>> > same time; it's effectiveness (used to be) 95% or so.

>>>> > That's all based on the little fact that there are no

>>>> > irregular menstration prolbems. You have to pay tons of

>>>> > money to get and use the pill. Condoms require

>>>> > cooperation from the male, which is not common,

>>>> > although the AIDS thing may have helped there.


>>>> There's Norplant and similar hormone-based birth

>>>> control that only requires a shot quarterly or yearly.


>>> I'll bet the cost is equivalent to taking the pill.


>> You've just lost that bet. There's a reason its used in the 3rd world.

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norplant#Use_in_the_developing_ world


> I thought we were talking about US females.


Yes, but that 3rd world result proves that it is much cheaper than the pill.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98369 is a reply to message #98261] Sat, 20 July 2013 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote
> Lawrence Statton wrote

>> Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote


>>> What the hell does Facebook do that's useful? Or Twitter, Instagram,

>>> ...


>> Or the NFL or the NBA or the Yankees?


>> Pragmatic utility is not the sole measure of value.


> those comm devices are teaching people who

> have had no exposure to Western Civilization


There's no one like that with movies and TV alone.

> and self-determination ideas.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98371 is a reply to message #98265] Sat, 20 July 2013 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
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"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004E1F18D41AC3B@aca21a5f.ipt.aol.com...
> Stephen Sprunk wrote:

>> On 19-Jul-13 10:27, jmfbahciv wrote:

>>> Stephen Sprunk wrote:

>>>> On 18-Jul-13 09:32, jmfbahciv wrote:

>>>> > Robert Wessel wrote:

>>>> >> Tax deferred* 401k and IRA distributions, as well as SS income

>>>> >> (above a certain total income limit)

>>>> >

>>>> > which is very low.

>>>>

>>>> Not necessarily; you can sock away a lot of money in 401k/403b and

>>>> IRA accounts. SS benefits are generally pitiful, though.

>>>

>>> But the amount you can extract each year without paying taxes is

>>> small. You can't even extract the interest/dividends the fund pays.

>>

>> Right; above ~$20k in "earned" income, including 401k/403b and IRA

>> distributions, you're going to be paying income taxes. I don't recall

>> if those distributions are also subject to FICA taxes.

>

> So far they're not but somebody in this thread suggested it. I object

> to that one too.

>>

>> The rich, in contrast, get _their_ retirement* savings taxed at the much

>> lower rates for "unearned" income.


> So what? They've already paid taxes on the earned income which

> bought the stocks, bonds and bills which produce unearned income.


No the rich did not, they mostly inherited what produces that unearned
income.

>> (* Not that the rich can really retire, since they've never done an

>> honest day's work in the first place.)

>

> Yea. that attitude is why I thought you were talking aobut different

> a very different definition of wealth.

>>

>>>> If you think stock/bond ownership is "normal", that says a lot

>>>> about the lack of variety in your social circle.

>>>

>>> I have no social circle. you are it.

>>

>> That explains a lot.

>

> I'm working reestablishing information pathways but it takes time

> and energy; I don't have much of hte latter.

>>

>>>> > If you are, then people are really in deep shit and don't know it

>>>> > yet.

>>>>

>>>> Actually, most of them _do_ know they're in really deep shit; they

>>>> just don't understand how to _get out_ of their situation because

>>>> they also see that the entire deck is stacked against them.

>>>

>>> WEll, it's called don't spend money. But that's like spitting into

>>> the wind and not getting wet.

>>

>> Right, because basic human needs like food, shelter, clothing, health

>> care, etc. are totally optional. Just cut that spending out of your

>> budget and your problems are solved! Why can't the poor see that?


> The "ppor" of the US also have TVs, cable , and other so-called

> necessities which were never on my mother's shopping lists when I was

> young.


Yes, the real living standards have improved out of sight
even for the absolute dregs of society over that time.

The only real exception is the truly 'homeless' and
most of those essentially volunteer to 'live' like that.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98372 is a reply to message #98267] Sat, 20 July 2013 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote

>>> Peter Flass wrote

>>>> jmfbahciv wrote


>>>> > Are you telling me that most people will not have bought their own

>>>> > stocks

>>>> > and bonds, reinvesting dividends, for their retirement? Are you

>>>> > telling

>>>> > met that most people are not doing any saving for their retirement but

>>>> > are depending on the US government and their employer for income after

>>>> > retirement?


>>>> Yes and yes.


>>>> * Average savings of a 50 year old $43,797

>>>> * Percentage of Americans over 65 who rely completely on Social

>>>> Security 35%

>>>> * Percentage of Americans who don’t save anything for retirement

>>>> 36%

>>>> (http://www.statisticbrain.com/retirement-statistics/)


>>>> I can't claim to be a retirement genius, because most of my saving was

>>>> done automatically, but I *did* think about it from time to time and

>>>> make some decisions.


>>>> > If you are, then I'm beginning to understand why none of you

>>>> > understand what I'm talking about. If you are, then people are really

>>>> > in deep shit and don't know it yet.


>>>> Yes, except their expecting the "uncle sam faiery" to bail them out.


>>> Which is why SS and other government freebies


>> SS isnt a government freebie, you pay for what you eventually receive.


> No, you don't.


Yes your family does.

> Some people don't pay anything.


Only the spouses of those who did who have never worked at all.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98373 is a reply to message #98270] Sat, 20 July 2013 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
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"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004E1F154A9F849@aca21a5f.ipt.aol.com...
> Patrick Scheible wrote:

>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:

>>

>>> Patrick Scheible wrote:

>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:

>>>>

>>>> > Morten Reistad wrote:

>>>> >> In article <51E38421.1070508@SPAM.comp-arch.net>,

>>>> >> Andy (Super) Glew <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> wrote:

>>>> >>>On 7/14/2013 12:45 PM, jklam wrote:

>>>> >>>> That doesn't work with the US income tax system because the amount

>>>> >>>> you

>>>> >>>> pay in US income tax is not dependant on where your primary

>>>> >>>> residence

>>> is.

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> What matters is if you are a US citizen for tax purposes or not.]

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>>So have the income and hold the income producing property in an

>>>> >>>offshore

>>>> >>>company that you control.

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>>Leave the money offshore, for offshore expenses.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Indeed. The idea of incorporating offshore is what secures the

>>>> >> tax base. Even I have an offshore pension fund. I will be taxed

>>>> >> to death if I use it as a non-pensioner, but can take income from

>>>> >> it when I retire. And if I retire in some low-tax jurisdiction

>>>> >> it will be taxed at that low rate.

>>>> >

>>>> > And why should one have to do all of this juggling? Don't governments

>>>> > understand that high tax rates result in the wealth moving out of the

>>>> > country?

>>>>

>>>> Even if the tax rates are low, there's always some pathetic hellhole of

>>>> another country that will tolerate tax rates 2% lower and attract the

>>>> businesses that shop around for the best tax havens.

>>>

>>> But your use of the term hellhole says it all. Why move to a hellhoe

>>> if there environs of the original are good? There are lots of

>>> additional

>>> costs and that doesn't include transporting the capitalized assets

>>> offshore.

>>

>> Again, multinationals thrive by moving their costs to where labor is

>> cheapest and taxes are lowest. That tends to create miserable living

>> conditions for the population,

>

> Which population? the residents of the country they moved to?

>

> That's complete nonsense. What it does is start establishing

> a middle class in that country.

>

>> and maybe the multinational has to build

>> their own compound with their own security, electricity, and water

>> purification,

>

> Yes. and their employees learn that those things are valuable. Their

> politicians will have to steer the monies into establishing a real,

> working infrastructure instead of pissing it away on guns and wars.

> The people who work begin to create nests which have toilets and

> plumbing and floors. Their neighbors see the improvments and want

> them, too. So the neighbors find work which will fund those

> improvements. All of a sudden, there is a labor force who doesn't

> have any work so the politicians invite more manufacturing. those

> companies move in IFF the pols ahve stopped shooting each other

> and started to expend resources on infrastructure. they are

> fortunate in that they can skip the copper lines for comm and

> go straight to cell phones, etc.

>

>

>

>> but it's still cheaper than operating in a country with

>> decent living conditions and 1st world tax rates. Their only

>> involvement in the 1st world can be selling to the consumers there, who

>> still work for the businesses that haven't moved to the 3rd world yet.


> that "3rd" world will soon become just as expensive.


No, because they still have vast numbers of those involved
in subsistence agriculture who continue to provide a vast
pool of very cheap labor. That’s what has happened with
Indonesia and Bangladesh for more than half a century now.

> the key to which countries keep their manufacturing

> is how they treat the businesses.


Nope, no one has been able to keep much manufacturing
of low cost consumer goods in any first world country, even
if they are actually stupid enough to try immense levels of
protection.

> Bad treatement: busiinesses will move elsewhere.


Manufacturing of consumer goods moves elsewhere regardless.

> That's normal and should not be changed. If the US wants to

> get those companies back into the US, then they had better

> make the business environment attractive for business.


Its not even possible. Even Ireland with its very gung ho
attempts to do that, and with quite literally free tertiary
education for anyone who wanted it didn’t see the
manufacture of low cost consumer goods stay in Ireland.

All the actually achieved was the Irish taxpayer paying
for the tertiary education that saw those who did have
enough of a clue to avail themselves of that free education
emigrate all over the world, and still do in immense numbers.

> TAxing and feeing the shit out of them is NOT

> going to convince a single business to move back.


Not taxing and feeing them at all like Ireland did
didn’t work either.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98374 is a reply to message #98276] Sat, 20 July 2013 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
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"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004E1F1B6227450@aca21a5f.ipt.aol.com...
> Stephen Sprunk wrote:

>> On 19-Jul-13 10:27, jmfbahciv wrote:

>>> Peter Flass wrote:

>>>> On 7/18/2013 10:32 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:

>>>> > If you are, then I'm beginning to understand why none of you

>>>> > understand what I'm talking about. If you are, then people are

>>>> > really in deep shit and don't know it yet.

>>>>

>>>> Yes, except their expecting the "uncle sam faiery" to bail them

>>>> out.

>>>

>>> Which is why SS and other government freebies are putting the US into

>>> bankruptcy. people have transferred responsibility of their lives to

>>> the government. That's what communism is.

>>

>> SS is not a "freebie"; you have to pay in to get benefits.


> No, you don't.


Your family does.

> You can collect on someone else's contributions.


Only another family member.

> That's one of the main problems with SS.


Nope. The main problem with it is that the Repugs have
always hated it and keep attempting to destroy it.

> There iisn't a 1::1 contributor::receiver ratio.


There was never intended to be with the spouses of contributors.

It would have been completely unacceptable to stop paying
any SS once the individual who had contributed had died,
leaving the spouse who had not contributed, to starve to death.

And it is normally the spouse who has not contributed that lives longer too.

>> That the buffoons in Congress have consistently failed to collect

>> _enough_ payments to cover the cost of benefits is a different matter.


> And they've kept changing who can receive benefits and

> how much those who haven't contributed can receive.


Nothing else is even possible given how dramatically the
detail of who works and who doesn’t has changed over time.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98375 is a reply to message #98358] Sat, 20 July 2013 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stephen Sprunk is currently offline  Stephen Sprunk
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On 20-Jul-13 13:24, Dan Espen wrote:
> Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> writes:

>> On 19-Jul-13 10:27, jmfbahciv wrote:

>>> My taxes are going to double beause the rates for unearned

>>> income have doubled.

>>

>> Cite?

>

> She has to be talking about dividends, but as usual...

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_dividend

>

> ... From 2003 to 2007, qualified dividends were taxed at 15% or 5%

> depending on the individual's ordinary income tax bracket, and from

> 2008 to 2012, the tax rate on qualified dividends was reduced to 0%

> for taxpayers in the 10% and 15% ordinary income tax brackets, and

> starting in 2013 the rates on qualified dividends are 0%, 15% and

> 20%. The 20% rate is for taxpayers in the 39.6% tax bracket.


That text only made sense to me after I looked at the table below, which
shows that the only change in 2013 is that, for those in the reinstated
39.6% bracket for ordinary income, the tax rate for qualified dividends
goes from 15% to 20%, which is hardly "doubled".

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98376 is a reply to message #98277] Sat, 20 July 2013 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote

>>> Peter Flass wrote

>>>> jmfbahciv wrote

>>>> > Peter Flass wrote

>>>> >> jmfbahciv wrote


>>>> >>> Why is profit such a swear word?


>>>> >> Everyone likes to see a company produce something useful that people

>>>> >> want to buy, sell a lot of them, and make a fair profit. Most of

>>>> >> those

>>>> >> things are not part of current business practices. They're all

>>>> >> weasels

>>>> >> these days. They fire people and move stuff overseas, play games to

>>>> >> avoid paying taxes, try to cheat everyone in sight, and usually don't

>>>> >> do anything useful in the first place.


>>>> > Why do you assume that 100% of business is doing this?


>>>> Because enough are that it's unusual to see otherwise. Apple invents

>>>> good products that people want; they're even moving some manufacturing

>>>> back to the US. M$ sells (mostly) cr@p and uses monopoly power to try

>>>> to force people to buy it. All of Wall Street are crooks; everyone has

>>>> their hand out for government money.


>>> Small business isn't on Wall Street yet. Nor are they bought

>>> out unless they're doing something somebody else wants.


>>> The computer biz has this model. STartups create a foobar; if it works

>>> well and is useful, the big companies buy out the FOOBAR Corp.


>> Didn’t happen with DEC, Microsoft, or Apple.


> You're mixing apples and dried up fruits again.


Nope, those are the majors in the computer biz you were talking about.

> Microsoft, and I suspect Apple, do exactly this.


Microsoft was in fact a startup that created a foobar and was not bought
out.

Ditto with Apple and DEC.

> I talked with one guy who, with 4 others, do the startup

> business and then get bought out after a couple years.


And that didn’t happen with any of Microsoft, Apple or DEC
which are in fact the epitome of the computer biz along with IBM.

> They do another "project". Instead of the projects DEC

> would begin and fund, this model would have another

> group outside of the company do the creations.


And it is in fact much more commonly done the way DEC
did it with all of Apple, Google, Facebook, etc etc etc.

>> And it isnt just startups that create a foobar either, most obviously

>> with all of DEC, Xerox, IBM, Microsoft, Apple, etc etc etc.


> Take another look.


No need to.

>>> Then the previous owners of FOOBAR startup

>>> another company with another idea.


>> There are a few examples of that, but not very many at all.


> You should get out more,


You're the one that doesn’t get out at all.

> keep your mouth shut and listen to

> people who are doing this work.


I've read the biographys and memoirs of those that are doing that work.

And I know a hell of a lot more about how its done than you do too.
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98377 is a reply to message #98280] Sat, 20 July 2013 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote
> Stephen Sprunk wrote

>> jmfbahciv wrote

>>> Andrew Swallow wrote


>>>> The ban on abortion and contraception do feel like the slave

>>>> breeding programs that the southern states introduced when the

>>>> slave trade was banned. Similar rules.


>>> Of course it is. And all women become chattel.


>> Become? Women were chattel at least as far back as the invention

>> of marriage, probably since shortly after we started walking upright

>> and the species became sexually dimorphic.


> I know. I are one.


You've never been a chattel.

>> That started to change in the 1970s,


> No, it started to change during WWII.


It started to change LONG before that.

There was plenty of that in the 20s,
and well before that too.

>> but the neocons are desperately

>> trying to drag us back to the 1950s.


> Nah, they want to go further back than that. that's why

> I'm so damned critical of the Democrat leadership; I'd

> like to have the far right become another memory.


Its never going to happen, they will always be with us.

>> I understand why male neocons might desire that,

>> but I don't understand female neocons at all.


> do you have a couple of decades? I can explain the circumstances

> but I can't explain the logic because there ain't any. when it

> comes to Xtian religion, illogic is admired and sought.
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98378 is a reply to message #98274] Sat, 20 July 2013 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
Messages: 3507
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote

>>> Lawrence Statton wrote

>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote


>>>> > CBS radio news reported a list of skills which are missing. IIRC,

>>>> > IT work was 4th or 5th on the list. Somehow I can't believe that

>>>> > one.

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>> I don't know why you don't believe it.

>>>

>>> BEcause it's so odd. I would have thought that there are plenty

>>> of people with those skills. I'm just simply utterly surprised.

>>> I wasn't trying to challenge your veracity.

>>>

>>>

>>>> I see it, Sprunk sees it.

>>>> Other people I've worked with see it. I'll say it again in short

>>>> words that even you can understand: Qualified candidates are getting

>>>> to be as rare as hen's teeth.

>>>>

>>>> Those who *can* do it, already have jobs and aren't looking, but there

>>>> are more jobs than people who can fill them.

>>>>

>>>> Yes, everytime we post an ad looking for developers, I drown in a sea

>>>> of résumés, but the staggering majority of them are either

>>>> exaggerations, half-truths, or bald-faced-lies. I've stopped even

>>>> BOTHERING to check academic references, because I've found near-zero

>>>> correlation between education and ability.

>>>

>>> that's always been a problem.

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Disturbingly - since I started trying to quantify these data, I've

>>>> found the very slight correlation to be negative. Masters in Computer

>>>> Science from Stanford; can't write ten lines of code in a week. Music

>>>> Major from Weaselpiss State College, but who learned BASIC on his MSX

>>>> system in 1984; HIRE THIS GUY NOW!

>>>

>>> <grin> that means things never change; we always had a disaster when

>>> we hired a CS flavor. They were so sutck in their little black box

>>> that they couldn't develop a way out of a push down list call.

>>>

>>>>

>>>> The way I see it is thusly: There was a time, during the darkest days

>>>> of the "first internet bubble" where anyone who could successfully

>>>> lift and open "HTML For Dummies" got a job as a "Web Developer", and

>>>> these people were often able to jump from job to job earning good

>>>> money doing very little or nothing, but building an impressive list of

>>>> sites they worked at. Fast forward a decade, and now clients realize

>>>> that the ability to rattle off a fistful of buzzwords at an interview

>>>> is no substitute for actual ability.

>>>>

>>>> If this is the sea of "qualified applicants who can't find work", I

>>>> feel no pity for them. The advice I have for them is: Actually

>>>> *learn* your craft, and in the mean-time, learn to ask "would you like

>>>> fries with that?"

>>>>

>>>> There was a recent article on Slashdot [A light-weight news/

>>>> information site for the geek set] about the poor quality of

>>>> candidates. They link to the following six-year-old blog piece:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmer s-program.html

>>>> http://tinyurl.com/cant-program

>>>>

>>>> One of the quotes:

>>>>

>>>> Like me, the author is having trouble with the fact that 199 out of

>>>> 200 applicants for every programming job can't write code at all. I

>>>> repeat: they can't write any code whatsoever.

>>>>

>>>> Read the article - it goes on to posit a trivial programming exercise

>>>> that (according to author) the MAJORITY of candidates (that is in

>>>> excess of 50%),who were already prescreened to have at least a degree

>>>> in Computer Science, CANNOT COMPLETE.

>>>>

>>>> FWIW: It took me about 45 seconds to write a solution, that worked

>>>> with zero defects on the first attempt.

>>>

>>> this is unbelievable. Every school which had a PDP-10 had lots

>>> of kiddies who could code. Everyone wanted to play with the "toy".

>>>

>>> GUI and PC have a lot to answer for. people who buy a system todya

>>> have no idea and receive no hints about what's underneath. Even

>>> the Unixes of this world hide basic computing skills.

>>>

>>> I said it once and I'll state it again with stronger lanugage.

>>> Every kid should have a copy of DEC's _Introduction to

>>> Programming_.


>> Nope, because few kids are interested in programming.


> Programming is like knowing how to drive.


Not anymore.

> It's whre you are coming from and where

> you are going which is the interesting part.


For most with driving its actually the freedom you
get to do what you like that’s the interesting part.

> If today's kids never see what's involved with real

> programming, they' aren't going to know that it exists.


Yes, but they don’t care, because they don’t
see that as useful for what they want to do
and they are mostly right about that too.

> The whole point is to expose them to knowledge,

> hard-earned knowledge, so that they (not their

> parents, not the dumbed-down schools and not

> their peers) can decide how curious they are.


They aren't curious about stuff like that.

> The people Lawrence wants are those who

> have that particular itch and have to scratch it.


Yes, but that’s only a tiny subset of all kids and
those who are like that don’t need to be provided
with that book they will seek that sort of thing out
for themselves when they decide they want to have
an app that is not available for their smartphone etc.

Apple provides their SDK as a free download and
hordes of those kids all over the world use it.
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98379 is a reply to message #98269] Sat, 20 July 2013 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
Messages: 3507
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004E1F0BAEDFC23@aca21a5f.ipt.aol.com...
> Lawrence Statton wrote:

>>

>> [sparing comp.arch from this continuing hell ... ]

>>

>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:

>>> this is unbelievable. Every school which had a PDP-10 had lots

>>> of kiddies who could code. Everyone wanted to play with the "toy".

>>

>> And that's how it was for my generation, but I fear that I'm the last.

>>

>> For the next, the "toy" was the Nintendo (or Sega, or XBox, or

>> whatever it is this week) and you don't have to learn to program that

>> - just just plug it in and turn it on and get some engaging

>> entertainment.

>>

>> When I was working in the video game "biz", I was asked at a panel

>> discussion, "What is your favorite game?" And I answered deadpan

>> "cc". (The C compiler).

>>

>>

>>> GUI and PC have a lot to answer for. people who buy a system todya

>>> have no idea and receive no hints about what's underneath. Even

>>> the Unixes of this world hide basic computing skills.

>>

>> That's a red herring -- people buy tools because they want to use

>> those tools to do their job, or make thier lives easier. Those whose

>> constitution requires them to know how it works will find out, but the

>> vast majority of users of <anything> don't really care how to build

>> it, or how it works, they just want to write their book, or balance

>> their accounts, or see pictures of kittens, or chat with their

>> grandchildren, or ....


> It's not a red herring. Forcing all computer interaction to remain

> at the level of GUI is what I was talking about. I've got no

> problems with having an "easy" useful user interface. However, when

> the user needs something more comoplicated, access to that layer

> of usage should be possible


It always is.

> and not need extreme finger wrestling to get there and remain there.


That is not required.

>>> I said it once and I'll state it again with stronger lanugage.

>>> Every kid should have a copy of DEC's _Introduction to

>>> Programming_.

>>

>> I'm torn in two on this issue -- I genuinely believe that learning to

>> program to some level of compentency will force a person to think

>> logically about solving a problem, and that can't possibly be a bad

>> thing. On the other hand, I've met enough people who just CAN'T seem

>> to break a problem down logically - they can only seem to absorb

>> information holistically - that it would be like forcing me to learn

>> oilpainting. I doubt I'd ever get good at it, and I'd hate being

>> forced to learn it, and hate them for trying.


> Note that I never said they had to learn it. It can set on their

> shelves for the rest of their lives but everyone should have it.


Its no use to the vast bulk of them, just like a text on differential
calculus is too.

> Those who get curious are exactly the

> ones you want to hire when they grow up.


Yes, but they don’t need someone to put that book on their shelves.

If they do need that, they are useless.

> I would add an appendix with a listing of other books which might

> be of interest and those books could piont at topics which include

> the arts, scinences and other unexpected areas.


They have this funky system called the internet that has replaced that now.

>> The first Real Important Lesson of Adulthood: Everyone is created

>> unequal. I am unique. There are others like me, but many, many

>> others totally unlike me.


> I learned that when I was about 6 or 7.


>> My first exposure to that was in differential calculus -- this shit is

>> so EASY! What kind of brain-damaged MORON are you that this isn't

>> immediately obvious??! My second exposure was integral calclus. This

>> shit is so HARD! What kind of brain-damaged MORON am I that this

>> isn't immediately obvious??!


> ROTHFLMAO. Your thinking style is very interesting.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98381 is a reply to message #98279] Sat, 20 July 2013 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
Messages: 3507
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004E1F11A2EC924@aca21a5f.ipt.aol.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:

>>

>>

>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message

>> news:PM0004E1DE04FE222E@ac810898.ipt.aol.com...

>>> Rod Speed wrote:

>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote

>>>> > Rod Speed wrote

>>>> >> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote

>>>> >>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> >>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote

>>>> >>>>> Stephen Sprunk wrote

>>>> >>>>>> Peter Flass wrote

>>>> >>>>>>> jklam wrote

>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>>> In all of the above cases, he'd still be a billionaire

>>>> >>>>>>>>> today, which is far more than he ever expected.

>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, he would still be stinking rich even if that capital

>>>> >>>>>>>> gain was taxed at 95% and he would still try to do that.

>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> This is a "feel good" argument. That guy was just lucky and

>>>> >>>>>>> a lot sess deserving than the lady who cleans the toilets in

>>>> >>>>>>> his house, so let's take it from him and give it to her.

>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> I'd be satisfied if he paid (at least) the same effective

>>>> >>>>>> tax rate that she did on her (much smaller) earnings.

>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> Even Warren Buffet says it's ridiculous that he

>>>> >>>>>> pays a lower tax rate than his secretary does.

>>>>

>>>> >>>>> Warren Buffet was comparing earned income to unearned income.

>>>>

>>>> >>>> Nope, he is talking about tax rates.

>>>>

>>>> >>>>> His secretary has a salary which is in the highest tax bracket.

>>>>

>>>> >>>> He pays a lower tax rate than she does anyway.

>>>>

>>>> >>> He pays a lower rate because his income is unearned.

>>>>

>>>> >> That is just one of the reasons. The other is because he

>>>> >> has a lot more deductions available to him as well.

>>>>

>>>> > What kind of deductions do you think he has?

>>>>

>>>> The cost of doing business. Costs that she does

>>>> not have because she is just a wage slave.

>>>>

>>>> > He can take interest expense

>>>>

>>>> Yes.

>>>>

>>>> > but not much else.

>>>>

>>>> Bullshit. Her wages for starters.

>>>

>>> She doesn't work for Buffet. she works for the corpooration.

>>> he doesn't deduct her wages from his personal income. her wages

>>> which are very, very, very good for a scretary, are an expense

>>> of the company. I havent' been keeping track of the stock price

>>> of those shares.

>>>

>>>

>>>>

>>>> >>> There is a difference.

>>>>

>>>> >> You seriously 'think' that that is any news to anyone ?

>>>>

>>>> > It is here. People keep producing one of the stupidest

>>>> > quotes of the last 3 deecades and use it to "prove" that

>>>> > the middle class and retireees should have their tax rates

>>>> > doubled or tripled.

>>>>

>>>> You're lying now. No one has EVER said anything about

>>>> doubling or tripping the tax rates on the middle class

>>>> and retirees in here and I read every single post in here.

>>

>>> If unearned income is taxed, those people's taxes will go up.

>>

>> But it wont be DOUBLED OR TRIPLED.


> My 2013 taxes will be doubled.


Not because unearned income is taxed.

> If mine are doubled, people making

> a log more than I am will be tripled...


Nope.

> hint they're in a higer tax bracket.


That doesn’t triple their tax.

>>> Every suggestion posted would double my income tax each year.


>> Another bare faced lie. The suggestion that the top 1% should

>> pay the same tax RATE as the next lowest group would have

>> no effect what so ever on your income tax each year.


> Except the suggestion doesn't affect ONLY the top 1%.


Yes it does.

> It affects everyone.


No it does not. It doesn’t have any effect what so ever
on the bottom HALF that pay no net federal income tax.
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98382 is a reply to message #98326] Sat, 20 July 2013 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harry is currently offline  harry
Messages: 143
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:lpGdnbkFMpLEVHfMnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@bt.com...
> On 20/07/2013 16:59, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:

>>> There is also a quite intense level of competition

>>> between jurisdictions when it comes to corporate tax

>>> rates. The EU are converging on ca 20%, with even

>>> Sweden at 22% in the latest budget.

>>

>> OECD unveils plan to end 'golden era' of tax avoidance; David Cameron

>> has called on the world's leaders to get behind a global crackdown on

>> tax avoidance and "break down the walls of corporate secrecy"

>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumert ips/tax/10190406/OECD-unveils-plan-to-end-golden-era-of-tax- avoidance.html

>>

>

> He will find that manufacturing occurs in China. China buys its raw

> materials directly, mostly from the third world.


No, mostly from the first world like Australia.

No money for western
> governments there. The rest of the world will discover that western

> government are bankrupt.

>

> Andrew Swallow
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98383 is a reply to message #98375] Sat, 20 July 2013 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3776
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> writes:

> On 20-Jul-13 13:24, Dan Espen wrote:

>> Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> writes:

>>> On 19-Jul-13 10:27, jmfbahciv wrote:

>>>> My taxes are going to double beause the rates for unearned

>>>> income have doubled.

>>>

>>> Cite?

>>

>> She has to be talking about dividends, but as usual...

>>

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_dividend

>>

>> ... From 2003 to 2007, qualified dividends were taxed at 15% or 5%

>> depending on the individual's ordinary income tax bracket, and from

>> 2008 to 2012, the tax rate on qualified dividends was reduced to 0%

>> for taxpayers in the 10% and 15% ordinary income tax brackets, and

>> starting in 2013 the rates on qualified dividends are 0%, 15% and

>> 20%. The 20% rate is for taxpayers in the 39.6% tax bracket.

>

> That text only made sense to me after I looked at the table below, which

> shows that the only change in 2013 is that, for those in the reinstated

> 39.6% bracket for ordinary income, the tax rate for qualified dividends

> goes from 15% to 20%, which is hardly "doubled".


Well, then BAH will remain clueless because she won't look at any links.
She is, of course, not in the 39.6 bracket, so no change.

Too bad, I'm collecting a bunch of dividends myself, but would fully
support dividends being treated as ordinary income.


--
Dan Espen
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98384 is a reply to message #98254] Sat, 20 July 2013 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1084
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2013-07-20, Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 7/19/2013 11:09 PM, 127 wrote:

>>

>> Most of them never will move to the 3rd world. It's just not possible

>> for the absolute vast bulk of the service sector that is where most of

>> the jobs are now.

>

> So we buy all our stuff from China and get jobs sweeping each others'

> offices?

>

>


Dean Swift proposed a society where everyone lived by taking in others
washing, we are getting close to that here now.



--
maus
.
.
....
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98414 is a reply to message #98384] Sat, 20 July 2013 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harry is currently offline  harry
Messages: 143
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"greymausg" <maus@mail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnkul983.3ss.maus@gmaus.org...
> On 2013-07-20, Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote:

>> On 7/19/2013 11:09 PM, 127 wrote:

>>>

>>> Most of them never will move to the 3rd world. It's just not possible

>>> for the absolute vast bulk of the service sector that is where most of

>>> the jobs are now.

>>

>> So we buy all our stuff from China and get jobs sweeping each others'

>> offices?

>>

>>

>

> Dean Swift proposed a society where everyone lived by taking in others

> washing, we are getting close to that here now.


No, you are doing much more than that, particularly
with education, medical services, roads and the like.
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98415 is a reply to message #98274] Sat, 20 July 2013 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5093
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
In article <PM0004E1F0DA63F228@aca21a5f.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
(jmfbahciv) writes:

> Rod Speed wrote:

>

>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message

>> news:PM0004E1DDC06BDA39@ac810898.ipt.aol.com...

>>

>>> I said it once and I'll state it again with stronger lanugage.

>>> Every kid should have a copy of DEC's _Introduction to

>>> Programming_.

>>

>> Nope, because few kids are interested in programming.

>

> Programming is like knowing how to drive. It's whre you

> are coming from and where you are going which is the interesting

> part. If today's kids never see what's involved with real

> programming, they' aren't going to know that it exists.


And they don't care. All they want is a chauffeur to take them
where they want to go.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98416 is a reply to message #98055] Sat, 20 July 2013 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5093
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <ksch5o$iua$1@dont-email.me>, numerist@aquaporin4.com
(Charles Richmond) writes:

> "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote

> in message news:51e98462$5$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net...

>

>> In <87bo5y8riu.fsf@cluon.com>, on 07/19/2013

>> at 11:04 AM, Lawrence Statton <lawrence@cluon.com> said:

>>

>>> My first exposure to that was in differential calculus -- this shit

>>> is so EASY! What kind of brain-damaged MORON are you that this isn't

>>> immediately obvious??! My second exposure was integral calclus.

>>> This shit is so HARD! What kind of brain-damaged MORON am I that

>>> this isn't immediately obvious??!

>>

>> It also depends on what you're learning from. As a kid I read

>> "Calculus for the Practical Man" and it didn't seem to make sense.

>> A teacher gave me a copy of Thomas, which actually gave proper

>> definitions instead of dumbed down hand waving, and everything was

>> clear.

>

> Yeah, I heartily concur on this! I have found many "dumbed-down"

> treatments to be much more difficult for the very reason you cited:

> they don't tell you everything you need to really understand things.

> To much of the unwashed masses, a "smaller book" means the subject

> is "less complicated". That's just marketing to reduce the

> information content and make the book smaller or the print larger.

> I want the facts plus more examples.


If I were ever to try studying math again, I pray that the textbooks
I read don't follow the pattern that seemed to be standard back in my
university days: a couple of pages of trivial introductory material
followed by the magic phrase: "From this it is obvious that..." -
at which point the book jumps into the next galaxy.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98417 is a reply to message #98382] Sat, 20 July 2013 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Swallow is currently offline  Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 20/07/2013 21:36, harry wrote:
>

>

> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message

> news:lpGdnbkFMpLEVHfMnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@bt.com...

>> On 20/07/2013 16:59, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:

>>>> There is also a quite intense level of competition

>>>> between jurisdictions when it comes to corporate tax

>>>> rates. The EU are converging on ca 20%, with even

>>>> Sweden at 22% in the latest budget.

>>>

>>> OECD unveils plan to end 'golden era' of tax avoidance; David Cameron

>>> has called on the world's leaders to get behind a global crackdown on

>>> tax avoidance and "break down the walls of corporate secrecy"

>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumert ips/tax/10190406/OECD-unveils-plan-to-end-golden-era-of-tax- avoidance.html

>>>

>>>

>>

>> He will find that manufacturing occurs in China. China buys its raw

>> materials directly, mostly from the third world.

>

> No, mostly from the first world like Australia.

>

> No money for western

>> governments there. The rest of the world will discover that western

>> government are bankrupt.

>>

>> Andrew Swallow

>


Australia is the exception. Australia is mined by Australians. Most of
the raw materials are coming from mines in Africa manned by ex-pat Chinese.

Andrew Swallow
Re: What Makes an Unemployment Myth Bizarre? [message #98449 is a reply to message #98056] Sat, 20 July 2013 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Bushell is currently offline  Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <kschnq$la7$1@dont-email.me>,
"Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

> In my experience, Human Resources does *not* have a clue. They ask for 10

> years experience on an OS that has only existed for 5 years.


The company manual prescribes that for the necessary pay grade. Some
id10t will swear he has the requisite experience and will get the job
out of desperation of the boss to be.

> They are dumb.

> They know *not* their own business... unless you consider their business

> just collecting a paycheck every so often. If you want a job, they are an

> obstacle to be overcome. IMHO.


--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98451 is a reply to message #97803] Sat, 20 July 2013 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3109
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:
> I like this quote: " America is now dominated by scammers, cheaters,

> grifters and those gaming the system, large and small, to increase

> their share of the swag."


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#15 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?

Shocking Things Wall Street Financiers Say Off the Record About Their
Bloated, Corrupt Industry
http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workpla ce/wall-st-financiers-we-are-corrupt
Wall Street in Crisis: A Perfect Storm Looming
http://www.secwhistlebloweradvocate.com/_blog/secwhistleblow eradvocate/post/wall-street-in-crisis-a-perfect-storm-loomin g

older KPMG corporate fraud study

Corporate Fraud and Misconduct Risks Driven by Pressure to do "Whatever
It Takes"
http://www.informationweek.com/corporate-fraud-and-misconduc t-risks-dri/212501185

financial industry corporate fraud something like twice other
industries.

past posts mentioning KPMG fraud study
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#27 Garbage in, garbage out trampled by Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#29 Let IT run the company!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#30 How reliable are the credit rating companies? Who is over seeing them?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#35 Is American capitalism and greed to blame for our financial troubles in the US?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#36 What is the top security threat prediction of 2009?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#47 Executive pay: time for a trim?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#20 Data losses set to soar
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#11 Amid Economic Turbulence, Mainframes Counter IT Cost-Cutting Trend
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#12 Amid Economic Turbulence, Mainframes Counter IT Cost-Cutting Trend
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#17 Fraud -- how can you stay one step ahead?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#25 The recently revealed excesses of John Thain, the former CEO of Merrill Lynch, while the firm was receiving $25 Billion in TARP funds makes me sick
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#36 A great article was posted in another BI group: "To H*** with Business Intelligence: 40 Percent of Execs Trust Gut"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#53 Credit & Risk Management ... go Simple ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#73 What can we learn from the meltdown?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009d.html#75 Whistleblowing and reporting fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#36 Architectural Diversity
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#37 How do you see ethics playing a role in your organizations current or past?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#41 Profiling of fraudsters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#24 Ernst & Young sued for fraud over Lehman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#44 Programmer Charged with thieft (maybe off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#26 The first personal computer (PC)

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98452 is a reply to message #98417] Sat, 20 July 2013 22:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
harry is currently offline  harry
Messages: 143
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"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:qZqdnfRcaPovhXbMnZ2dnUVZ7q-dnZ2d@bt.com...
> On 20/07/2013 21:36, harry wrote:

>>

>>

>> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message

>> news:lpGdnbkFMpLEVHfMnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@bt.com...

>>> On 20/07/2013 16:59, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

>>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:

>>>> > There is also a quite intense level of competition

>>>> > between jurisdictions when it comes to corporate tax

>>>> > rates. The EU are converging on ca 20%, with even

>>>> > Sweden at 22% in the latest budget.

>>>>

>>>> OECD unveils plan to end 'golden era' of tax avoidance; David Cameron

>>>> has called on the world's leaders to get behind a global crackdown on

>>>> tax avoidance and "break down the walls of corporate secrecy"

>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumert ips/tax/10190406/OECD-unveils-plan-to-end-golden-era-of-tax- avoidance.html

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>> He will find that manufacturing occurs in China. China buys its raw

>>> materials directly, mostly from the third world.

>>

>> No, mostly from the first world like Australia.

>>

>> No money for western

>>> governments there. The rest of the world will discover that western

>>> government are bankrupt.

>>>

>>> Andrew Swallow

>>

>

> Australia is the exception.


No, not when measured by the where
China gets most of its raw materials from.

> Australia is mined by Australians.


It is mostly mined by companies
with a majority foreign ownership.

Most of
> the raw materials are coming from mines in Africa


Which is only a tiny subset of the raw materials China imports.

> manned by ex-pat Chinese.


That isn't right either. There is certainly some chinese management
but the bulk of those actually doing the mining are not chinese.

And China gets a lot of its raw materials from the 2nd
world like Brazil and other parts of South America too.
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98453 is a reply to message #98115] Sat, 20 July 2013 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shmuel (Seymour J.) M is currently offline  Shmuel (Seymour J.) M
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In <877ggm6kkp.fsf@cluon.com>, on 07/19/2013
at 09:17 PM, Lawrence Statton <lawrence@cluon.com> said:

> I made the same joke twenty years later, and my cow-orkers didn't

> get it. If I had said 'gcc', they would have, but none of them

> were young enough to remember a world where "The" C Compiler was

> not the Gnu one.


I remember a world where the C compiler came from DR; written by Danté
and Kafka, I believe. Management turned a deaf ear to our pleas for
Lattice.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

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Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98455 is a reply to message #98255] Sat, 20 July 2013 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shmuel (Seymour J.) M is currently offline  Shmuel (Seymour J.) M
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In <proto-5C17DD.08441620072013@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>, on
07/20/2013
at 08:44 AM, Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> said:

> I think the previous poster meant "Whopper «" assembly.


Not wiothout a Content-Type: header line. I assume that you intended
charset=utf8.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

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Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98456 is a reply to message #98257] Sat, 20 July 2013 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shmuel (Seymour J.) M is currently offline  Shmuel (Seymour J.) M
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In <PM0004E1F1C15508F8@aca21a5f.ipt.aol.com>, on 07/20/2013
at 01:45 PM, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> said:

> And you're getting to bad as bad as speedo.


I'm not concerned with your family feud.

> I'll probably not open your posts anymore.


Does that mean that you'll stop lying about what I believe? How sad.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

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Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98457 is a reply to message #98276] Sat, 20 July 2013 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shmuel (Seymour J.) M is currently offline  Shmuel (Seymour J.) M
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In <PM0004E1F1B6227450@aca21a5f.ipt.aol.com>, on 07/20/2013
at 01:46 PM, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> said:

> No, you don't. You can collect on someone else's contributions.

> That's one of the main problems with SS. There iisn't a 1::1

> contributor::receiver ratio.


That's as much a result of the legal requirement to put the money into
low interest bonds as it is a result of the original startup
imbalance.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
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Re: What Makes an Unemployment Myth Bizarre? [message #98459 is a reply to message #98056] Sat, 20 July 2013 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shmuel (Seymour J.) M is currently offline  Shmuel (Seymour J.) M
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In <kschnq$la7$1@dont-email.me>, on 07/19/2013
at 06:28 PM, "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> said:

> In my experience, Human Resources does *not* have a clue. They ask

> for 10 years experience on an OS that has only existed for 5 years.

> They are dumb. They know *not* their own business... unless you

> consider their business just collecting a paycheck every so often.

> If you want a job, they are an obstacle to be overcome. IMHO.


C 'want a job' 'want to find a qualified applicant'

At RCA we used to joke that their function was to prevent us from
hiring the people that we needed.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
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Re: What Makes an Unemployment Myth Bizarre? [message #98461 is a reply to message #98449] Sat, 20 July 2013 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Swallow is currently offline  Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 21/07/2013 02:03, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <kschnq$la7$1@dont-email.me>,

> "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

>

>> In my experience, Human Resources does *not* have a clue. They ask for 10

>> years experience on an OS that has only existed for 5 years.

>

> The company manual prescribes that for the necessary pay grade.

{snip}

No one may have 5 years experience with that OS but there are plenty of
people with 10 years experience with OS. So a general operating system
program with some experience of OS would be appropriate. Now get that
into the job description.

Andrew Swallow
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98492 is a reply to message #98452] Sun, 21 July 2013 01:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Banks is currently offline  Walter Banks
Messages: 1000
Registered: July 2012
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harry wrote:

> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message

> news:qZqdnfRcaPovhXbMnZ2dnUVZ7q-dnZ2d@bt.com...

>> On 20/07/2013 21:36, harry wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message

>>> news:lpGdnbkFMpLEVHfMnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@bt.com...

>>>> On 20/07/2013 16:59, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

>>>> > Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:

>>>> >> There is also a quite intense level of competition

>>>> >> between jurisdictions when it comes to corporate tax

>>>> >> rates. The EU are converging on ca 20%, with even

>>>> >> Sweden at 22% in the latest budget.

>>>> >

>>>> > OECD unveils plan to end 'golden era' of tax avoidance; David Cameron

>>>> > has called on the world's leaders to get behind a global crackdown on

>>>> > tax avoidance and "break down the walls of corporate secrecy"

>>>> > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumert ips/tax/10190406/OECD-unveils-plan-to-end-golden-era-of-tax- avoidance.html

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>> He will find that manufacturing occurs in China. China buys its raw

>>>> materials directly, mostly from the third world.

>>>

>>> No, mostly from the first world like Australia.

>>>

>>> No money for western

>>>> governments there. The rest of the world will discover that western

>>>> government are bankrupt.

>>>>

>>>> Andrew Swallow

>>>

>>

>> Australia is the exception.

>

> No, not when measured by the where

> China gets most of its raw materials from.

>

>> Australia is mined by Australians.

>

> It is mostly mined by companies

> with a majority foreign ownership.

>

> Most of

>> the raw materials are coming from mines in Africa

>

> Which is only a tiny subset of the raw materials China imports.

>

>> manned by ex-pat Chinese.

>

> That isn't right either. There is certainly some chinese management

> but the bulk of those actually doing the mining are not chinese.

>

> And China gets a lot of its raw materials from the 2nd

> world like Brazil and other parts of South America too.

>


My fourth example for the Contrairian AI assignment
morph into a sockpuppet and be instantly recognizable
even without the swearing

Thanks Rod
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98493 is a reply to message #98492] Sun, 21 July 2013 03:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rod Speed is currently offline  Rod Speed
Messages: 3507
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
"Walter Banks" <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote in message
news:51EB72C5.A1E776AD@bytecraft.com...
>

>

> harry wrote:

>

>> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message

>> news:qZqdnfRcaPovhXbMnZ2dnUVZ7q-dnZ2d@bt.com...

>>> On 20/07/2013 21:36, harry wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:lpGdnbkFMpLEVHfMnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@bt.com...

>>>> > On 20/07/2013 16:59, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

>>>> >> Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:

>>>> >>> There is also a quite intense level of competition

>>>> >>> between jurisdictions when it comes to corporate tax

>>>> >>> rates. The EU are converging on ca 20%, with even

>>>> >>> Sweden at 22% in the latest budget.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> OECD unveils plan to end 'golden era' of tax avoidance; David

>>>> >> Cameron

>>>> >> has called on the world's leaders to get behind a global crackdown

>>>> >> on

>>>> >> tax avoidance and "break down the walls of corporate secrecy"

>>>> >> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumert ips/tax/10190406/OECD-unveils-plan-to-end-golden-era-of-tax- avoidance.html

>>>> >>

>>>> >>

>>>> >

>>>> > He will find that manufacturing occurs in China. China buys its raw

>>>> > materials directly, mostly from the third world.

>>>>

>>>> No, mostly from the first world like Australia.

>>>>

>>>> No money for western

>>>> > governments there. The rest of the world will discover that western

>>>> > government are bankrupt.

>>>> >

>>>> > Andrew Swallow

>>>>

>>>

>>> Australia is the exception.

>>

>> No, not when measured by the where

>> China gets most of its raw materials from.

>>

>>> Australia is mined by Australians.

>>

>> It is mostly mined by companies

>> with a majority foreign ownership.

>>

>> Most of

>>> the raw materials are coming from mines in Africa

>>

>> Which is only a tiny subset of the raw materials China imports.

>>

>>> manned by ex-pat Chinese.

>>

>> That isn't right either. There is certainly some chinese management

>> but the bulk of those actually doing the mining are not chinese.

>>

>> And China gets a lot of its raw materials from the 2nd

>> world like Brazil and other parts of South America too.

>>

>

> My fourth example for the Contrairian AI assignment

> morph into a sockpuppet and be instantly recognizable

> even without the swearing


It isnt meant to not be recognisable, fuckwit.
Re: What Makes a Tax System Bizarre? [message #98494 is a reply to message #98319] Sun, 21 July 2013 03:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1084
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Senior Member
On 2013-07-19, Morten Reistad <first@last.name> wrote:
> In article <PM0004E1C894AD8BCC@ac81348a.ipt.aol.com>,

> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:

>> Stephen Sprunk wrote:

>>> On 16-Jul-13 14:01, Dan Espen wrote:

>>>> Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> writes:

>>>> > Ditto for many other industries. The tech industry in particular

>>>> > has been having problems for decades, hence the H-1B visa program.

>>>> > Even that can only provide a few hundred thousand skilled workers

>>>> > per year, though, and that is but a drop in the bucket compared to

>>>> > the demand that our pitiful educational system is leaving

>>>> > completely unmet.

>>>>

>>>> Every off shore worker I've seen hired ...

>>>

>>> What I said above was about US-based workers; offshoring is another

>>> matter entirely.

>>>

>>>> was as a result of a native worker being fired, and not fired for

>>>> cause.

>>>

>>> "Fired" means terminated for cause. What you're referring to are

>>> layoffs, which is when jobs are eliminated.

>>

>> CBS radio news reported a list of skills which are missing. IIRC,

>> IT work was 4th or 5th on the list. Somehow I can't believe that

>> one.

>

> I can. The US is exporting IT jobs everywhere. I have at least half a

> dozen friends & aquaintances working for US IT companies that came

> to them, here in ex$pen$ive scandinavia; all of them seemingly out

> of desperation for finding manpower.

>

> -- mrr


Same here, for pivotal, skilled people, I believe that it is
possible to negotiate a tax situation similiar to wherever you
worked before. Irish schools pump out graduates in the skills
needed, but until they have some experience in the real world,
not really useful.


--
maus
.
.
....
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98495 is a reply to message #98321] Sun, 21 July 2013 03:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1084
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2013-07-19, Morten Reistad <first@last.name> wrote:
> In article <b4rbgeFhchiU1@mid.individual.net>, 127 <127@586.com> wrote:

>>

>>

>> "Patrick Scheible" <kkt@zipcon.net> wrote in message

>> news:86k3knda97.fsf@chai.my.domain...

>>

>> And it doesn’t have to be a pathetic hellhole either,

>> places like Ireland have tax rates much lower than that.

>

> Ireland is mentioned, it rains a lot there. And in Switzerland

> it snows. But there are lots of nice, tropical places; around

> 40 in total.


Charles Haughey, who knew what attracted crooks, had a schemee that
gave passports to people who `invested' ssome amount of moneey in
Ireland, most of whom were crooks. One of the Getty family took part,
and the government here was suprised when they discovered that he was
honest, and wanted proper accounting of his investment, i think the
argument continues.


The channel Islands, about 40 years ago, would give you residency,
for an investment of one million (whatever), you could work there,
kiss their asses, whatever, no joy. I believe that position still
pertains, amounted adjusted, a friend is working there and found
that position.

>

> And you have Uruguay, Antigua&Berbuda which will grant a citizenship

> against a permanent incoming investment of $100k. You still own the

> money, it just has to be invested in the country.

>

> Then you have Cyprus, Malta, the Azores, Bermuda, Cayman and half

> the countries up the antilles strip. Not my idea of "pathetic

> hellholes".

>

> Note that the "transperency directives" from the EU/US have backfired;

> and the EU and the US are now in the receiving end of this

> action, and will likely remain there for the next 1-2 decades.

> Taking the heat off immigration procedures in Berbuda, among

> other things.

>

> -- mrr



--
maus
.
.
....
Re: What Makes an Architecture Bizarre? [message #98497 is a reply to message #98326] Sun, 21 July 2013 03:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1084
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Senior Member
On 2013-07-20, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 20/07/2013 16:59, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:

>>> There is also a quite intense level of competition

>>> between jurisdictions when it comes to corporate tax

>>> rates. The EU are converging on ca 20%, with even

>>> Sweden at 22% in the latest budget.

>>

>> OECD unveils plan to end 'golden era' of tax avoidance; David Cameron

>> has called on the world's leaders to get behind a global crackdown on

>> tax avoidance and "break down the walls of corporate secrecy"

>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumert ips/tax/10190406/OECD-unveils-plan-to-end-golden-era-of-tax- avoidance.html

>>

>

> He will find that manufacturing occurs in China. China buys its raw

> materials directly, mostly from the third world. No money for western

> governments there. The rest of the world will discover that western

> government are bankrupt.

>

> Andrew Swallow


This has been noticed for a long time, that China is a single-agent
buyer, wwhich gives it great strength. Even the almost-obligarcial
US has to deal with the monolithical Red Chinese.

(Germany tried to do the same pre-WWII, it is recognized that was
one of the causes of that war)


--
maus
.
.
....
Re: What Makes an Unemployment Myth Bizarre? [message #98532 is a reply to message #98459] Sun, 21 July 2013 04:43 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1084
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2013-07-21, Shmuel Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
> In <kschnq$la7$1@dont-email.me>, on 07/19/2013

> at 06:28 PM, "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> said:

>

>> In my experience, Human Resources does *not* have a clue. They ask

>> for 10 years experience on an OS that has only existed for 5 years.

>> They are dumb. They know *not* their own business... unless you

>> consider their business just collecting a paycheck every so often.

>> If you want a job, they are an obstacle to be overcome. IMHO.

>

> C 'want a job' 'want to find a qualified applicant'


This usage stirs a memory, where does it come from?
(presumably, similiar to s/want a job/want to find a qualified applicant/
in vi)

>

> At RCA we used to joke that their function was to prevent us from

> hiring the people that we needed.

>



--
maus
.
.
....
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