Just wondering if there is any consensus as to which word processor is considered best for the Apple ][. Please, commence opining and state why you prefer your choice to others.
David Schmidt Messages: 993 Registered: October 2012
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On 7/13/2013 3:32 PM, db wrote:
> Just wondering if there is any consensus as to which word processor is considered best for the Apple ][. Please, commence opining and state why you prefer your choice to others.
I don't know about "best," but in terms of "most popular" - the one that
people come to me for help with old disks the most is AppleWorks. Seems
like it was the word processor of choice for those scads of IIc and IIe
machines that were in use.
Michael Black Messages: 2799 Registered: February 2012
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On Sat, 13 Jul 2013, db wrote:
> Just wondering if there is any consensus as to which word processor is
> considered best for the Apple ][. Please, commence opining and state why
> you prefer your choice to others.
>
Which one did Captain Crunch write? Or the one Paul Lutus wrote? It
seems fitting that all I can reemmber is who wrote them, rather than the
names of the programs. I gather the latter one is now freeware.
Cap'n Crunch: Easy Writer. Apparently the first word processor for Apple II and edited and debugged while he was in jail :P Any opinions on that one? Others I've heard mentioned are Bank Street Writer and BeagleWrite. Anyone have experience with these?
Michael Black Messages: 2799 Registered: February 2012
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On Sat, 13 Jul 2013, db wrote:
> Cap'n Crunch: Easy Writer. Apparently the first word processor for Apple
> II and edited and debugged while he was in jail :P Any opinions on that
> one? Others I've heard mentioned are Bank Street Writer and BeagleWrite.
> Anyone have experience with these?
>
Wasn't Bank Street Writer intended for kids? The company was about
educational software. And if so, it's likely to have a limited set of
functions, and maybe odd things like 40 columns only (kids write
differently from adults).
My first exposure to a word processor was when I bought the IIc, and was directed to Zardax. Enjoyed using it, though its been 30years since I last touched it. Written by someone up in Queensland Australia.
To: db
Re: Best Apple ][ word processors
By: db to comp.sys.apple2 on Sat Jul 13 2013 12:32 pm
> Just wondering if there is any consensus as to which word processor is consi
I always used Appleworks on my IIe. Will be again as I just put it all back
together :)
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On Saturday, July 13, 2013 12:32:30 PM UTC-7, db wrote:
> ... Please, commence opining and state why you prefer your choice to others.
AppleWriter all the way for me. It was lean and mean, and worked great in upper-case 40-column text mode on my ][+ with the shift-key jumper modification. It even had its own macro language, IIRC. My Epson MX-80 cranked out tons of school papers using that set-up, back in the day, on the pin-fed fan-fold paper (in double-strike mode for the final run).
An interesting video of the guy who wrote apple writer (and some other programs for the apple ][) that I found in another thread here. He has a funny story about he and Cap'n Crunch being wooed by IBM to make them a word processor. Check it out! He also mentions a graphics program he wrote called Apple World. Anyone know where I can find that?
On Saturday, July 13, 2013 12:32:30 PM UTC-7, db wrote:
> Just wondering if there is any consensus as to which word processor is considered best for the Apple ][. Please, commence opining and state why you prefer your choice to others.
ALADIN by Advanced Data Institute
1) integrated
2) written in Pascal
On Monday, July 15, 2013 4:36:25 AM UTC-7, db wrote:
> Were there any gui based word processors with selectable fonts?
Sure. MultiScribe (which was later bought out and renamed to BeagleWrite) was arguably the most popular "MacWrite" style of word processor for the 8-bit Apple II. It used the DHGR screen and graphical fonts with pull-down menus. It worked well enough for basic documents.
AppleWorks' Word Processor, especially when combined with Beagle's UltraMacros and TimeOut software, was pretty much THE STANDARD in Apple II word processing through the late 80's and beyond,
It seems to me, though, that WordPerfect for the Apple II was probably the most powerful - especially the GS version.
Michael Black Messages: 2799 Registered: February 2012
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, db wrote:
> Well, it seems that so far AppleWorks is edging out AppleWriter but just
> by a bit. Anyone else care to weigh in on this one?
>
I tend to think of Appleworks as coming fairly late, and in 1984 it was
late at the time. But that kind of coincides with a new wave of users,
the IIE and the IIC, so I suppose it was still prime time for the Apple
II.
Certainly Don Lancaster wrote quite a bit about Appleworks, which probably
reflects a popularity, but also might help to make it a desired editor.
db <darrenbennett123@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, it seems that so far AppleWorks is edging out AppleWriter but just
> by a bit. Anyone else care to weigh in on this one?
Appleworks was the most popular Apple II software *ever*. It was a good
word processor, though not WYSIWYG, and later versions integrated well with
SuperFonts, which provided very versatile output.
Of course, it was also a good database and a good spreadsheet, all nicely
integrated. It's no wonder that it was so pervasive.
On Saturday, July 13, 2013 1:32:30 PM UTC-6, db wrote:
> Just wondering if there is any consensus as to which word processor is considered best for the Apple ][. Please, commence opining and state why you prefer your choice to others.
I loved Applewriter. It's dot commands were simple and it could do footnores. "if anyone know what those were". Started my WP with the Pascal Editor though.
>> Well, it seems that so far AppleWorks is edging out AppleWriter but
>> just by a bit. Anyone else care to weigh in on this one?
>>
> I tend to think of Appleworks as coming fairly late, and in 1984 it
> was late at the time. But that kind of coincides with a new wave of
> users, the IIE and the IIC, so I suppose it was still prime time for
> the Apple II.
>
> Certainly Don Lancaster wrote quite a bit about Appleworks, which
> probably reflects a popularity, but also might help to make it a
> desired editor.
Lancaster wrote quite a bit about AppleWriter, including a book called
"AppleWriter Cookbook". I don't know that he mentioned AppleWorks,
except maybe in passing.
One of the great things about AppleWriter was that it had serial
communications abilities, so it could talk to modems. It wasn't a
terminal emulator, but for simple BBSs and the like it worked fine. I
used it until I bought ProTERM.
Another powerful feature of AppleWriter was its WPL (word processing
language), also called a macro-language. It allowed automation of a LOT
of things, and Lancaster really used this feature to a great extent.
I'd have to say I used both AppleWriter and AppleWorks quite a bit. As
the years went on, AppleWorks won out, probably because it also had a
spreadsheet, and that was useful to me as well.
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:19:44 AM UTC-5, Jerry wrote:
> Lancaster wrote quite a bit about AppleWriter, including a book called
> "AppleWriter Cookbook". I don't know that he mentioned AppleWorks,
> except maybe in passing.
Jerry, you are spot-on, I was going to point out the same facts but you quickly and ably beat me to it.
Lancaster did on occasion write about AppleWorks, but a lot of it was recycled material from his prior AppleWriter series updated for AppleWorks users. His other notable articles documented working with Postscript and laser printers.
On Sunday, July 14, 2013 3:45:20 AM UTC-5, db wrote:
> Thanks for your opinions so far. Keep 'em coming!
Depending on one's standards, there are really only 4 or 5 truly noteworthy word-processors for the Apple II. The rest may have had their own virtues, but compared to the big 5, they weren't nearly as popular.
WordStar - wildly successful for it's day, it was an essential hedge for Apple II owners concerned that 'serious' productivity applications wouldn't be published for the Apple II. It seemed like the rest of the world ran on CP/M back then. Then, AppleWriter came out...
AppleWriter - AppleWriter with WPL is arguably the most powerful word-processor ever published for the Apple II right out of the box. As a dedicated program, it was peerless at what it did. Times were changing though and people were tired of the hassles of converting, importing and exporting data between different applications. Then AppleWorks happened...
AppleWorks - AppleWorks was like the second coming of Visicalc, in that many people and small businesses purchased Apple IIe and IIc systems just to use AppleWorks. It's appeal and strength were in it's application integration and it's cost - AppleWorks was less expensive than buying 3 separate apps (that were probably proprietary and incompatible). It was also easy to learn and use, but still required add-ons like the Time-Out series to make it's word-processor (and spreadsheet, database) more capable than it's contemporaries.
AppleWorks was a tremendous success - I read a statistic from the Software Publisher's Association that claimed for every copy of AppleWorks sold, 20 more were illegally copied. Hundreds of AppleWorks how-to books were published essentially becoming unofficial manuals for the bootlegging users.
WordPerfect - WP had a huge installed base in business and especially in the medical, legal and academic professions.
Bank Street Writer - hundreds of thousands of copies were sold, it was the most popular word-processor for kids used in schools and at home.
Sean Fahey wrote:
> On Sunday, July 14, 2013 3:45:20 AM UTC-5, db wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your opinions so far. Keep 'em coming!
>
> Depending on one's standards, there are really only 4 or 5 truly noteworthy word-processors for the Apple II. The rest may have had their own virtues, but compared to the big 5, they weren't nearly as popular.
>
> WordStar - wildly successful for it's day, it was an essential hedge for Apple II owners concerned that 'serious' productivity applications wouldn't be published for the Apple II. It seemed like the rest of the world ran on CP/M back then. Then, AppleWriter came out...
>
> AppleWriter - AppleWriter with WPL is arguably the most powerful word-processor ever published for the Apple II right out of the box. As a dedicated program, it was peerless at what it did. Times were changing though and people were tired of the hassles of converting, importing and exporting data between different applications. Then AppleWorks happened...
>
> AppleWorks - AppleWorks was like the second coming of Visicalc, in that many people and small businesses purchased Apple IIe and IIc systems just to use AppleWorks. It's appeal and strength were in it's application integration and it's cost - AppleWorks was less expensive than buying 3 separate apps (that were probably proprietary and incompatible). It was also easy to learn and use, but still required add-ons like the Time-Out series to make it's word-processor (and spreadsheet, database) more capable than it's contemporaries.
>
> AppleWorks was a tremendous success - I read a statistic from the Software Publisher's Association that claimed for every copy of AppleWorks sold, 20 more were illegally copied. Hundreds of AppleWorks how-to books were published essentially becoming unofficial manuals for the bootlegging users.
>
> WordPerfect - WP had a huge installed base in business and especially in the medical, legal and academic professions.
>
> Bank Street Writer - hundreds of thousands of copies were sold, it was the most popular word-processor for kids used in schools and at home.
I can't claim it was any where near the BEST, but my first introduction
to word processing came from...
MAGIC WINDOW. It gave 80 column output from a 40 column screen and had
lots of codes to accomplish capitalization and upper and lower case for
my 48K Apple II. It even had feedback to the speaker to add a
typewriter-like feel to using it.
Since people keep mentioning AppleWorks and the fact that you needed certain add-ons for it to really shine; which add-ons are considered essential and why?
On 07/16/2013 02:36 AM, db wrote:
> Anyone have any experience with MouseWrite?
>
Yes, that was the primary wordprocessor I used back in the day. I found
it pretty intuitive to use, with its Mac-like interface. Freshman year
of college, I had a lot of people visit my dorm room to use it, rather
than trudge up to campus to use the Wang wordprocessing system to write
papers. Not having to memorize a bunch of obscure key combos to do
uncommon tasks (like create footnotes, apply styles, and so forth) was
great.
And, of course, it had a puzzle to keep you occupied when writer's block
hit ;)
As I recall, the later version allowed for multiple documents to be open
at the same time. I think it directly took advantage of the extended RAM
in my //c (I had 1024K on a Z-RAM ultra card). As I recall, I just used
a RAM disk and copied the dictionary for the spell-checker over to it,
in order to speed things up.
To: db
Re: Re: Best Apple ][ word processors
By: db to comp.sys.apple2 on Tue Jul 16 2013 03:40 pm
> Since people keep mentioning AppleWorks and the fact that you needed certain
For me Time works was the add-on I use(d) the most
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On Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:32:30 PM UTC-4, db wrote:
> Just wondering if there is any consensus as to which word processor is considered best for the Apple ][. Please, commence opining and state why you prefer your choice to others.
Screenwriter ][ was one of my favorites. I had just finished my Ph.D. research and was writing papers for journal submissions, and it was a Godsend. 80 columns, upper/lower case displayed on the screen... Absolutely wonderful program. Eventually migrated to Appleworks, but Screenwriter ][ still owns a place in my heart!
Since AppleWorks' (especially Version 5.1) word processing module with
integral spell checking, mail merge and 16,000+ line in-memory capacity is
pretty capable right out of the box, it's hard to say that any add-on would
be considered 'essential,' but add some of these TimeOut apps to it and it
becomes an 800-pound gorilla.
I'm biased, of course, but here are my Top '5' (+ 1 extra) word processing
add-on picks:
1. TimeOut UltraMacros (Randy Brandt)
(previously an add-on, but was built into version 5.1)
Man oh man, what _can't_ you do with UltraMacros? It's not just a
'keyplayer.' It's an entire programming/scripting language inside
AppleWorks.
I'm _still_ using UltraMacros in ways I never even imagined 20 years ago.
It's just that powerful.
If I could have only _one_ AppleWorks add-on, this would be it.
2. TimeOut Thesaurus (Alan Bird)
Very handy when you 'just can't come up with the right word.'
3. TimeOut TextTools (most by Mark Munz)
This package included the following separate apps:
(Some more useful than others - in no particular order):
Also neat, but by the time I picked up a copy, I'd already moved on to using
LaserJets (which had dozens of built-in fonts anyway) for printing from
AppleWorks, and at that point going back to Dot Matrix printing just wasn't
for me.
Besides, most of my stuff was either business correspondence or tech
reference writing, so the 'fancy print' capability SuperFonts offered wasn't
something that I really needed.
Others, though, swore by it for producing newletters and the like,
particularly prior to the entrance of dedicated DTP programs like PublishIt!
(which could import AppleWorks AWP files and output to PostScript).
I hope this helps. AppleWorks may not have done everything when compared
with the brawniest word processors (e.g. - WordStar), but it did everything
most people needed extremely easily and very quickly.
I seem to remember around 1983 / 84 that bunches of folks used SuperText
as well. It used the hi-res screen to give 70 characters per line. I
always thought it was ugly as can be, but I recall teachers at school
using it.
Yeah, I wasn't too impressed with SuperText. All of the 'M's, 'W's, and 'N's (among others) had serious legibility problems, and it had trouble keeping up with my typing when I was on a good roll. I couldn't out-run my AppleWriter, even @ 1 MHz.
If you have at least a 256K machine (either a IIGS or IIe/IIc/IIc+ with
expanded memory card), get and run AppleWorks 5.1. That program is as good
as it gets on the Apple II.
TimeOut is already installed on that version and you merely copy the TimeOut
Apps to the default TimeOut directory, which is normally something like:
/MYHARDDRIVENAME/APPLEWORKS51/TIMEOUT
FWIW, the default TimeOut directory name can be changed in the 'Settings'
menu.
Note that _some_ apps will need updating to use with version 5.1, but there
is a script on the AppleWorks 5.1 install that will do that for you. (You
still must run it yourself, though).
If you must use AppleWorks 3.0 (due to a lack of memory), download one of
the pdf docs from any of the TimeOut add-ons and there will be detailed
instructions on how to install it.
Thanks for the info! I only have an unmodified IIc so it's version 3 for me.. I tried to install it according to the procedure described in the manual a couple times now but I keep getting a "unable to locate prodos" message, if I'm remembering correctly. I'll give it one more shot and see what happens though.
To: db
Re: Re: Best Apple ][ word processors
By: db to comp.sys.apple2 on Tue Jul 16 2013 05:31 pm
> > For me Time works was the add-on I use(d) the most
>
> Which time works add-ons did you use?
Timeout file master
timeout thesaurus
timeout quickspell
timeout spreadsheet
I believe I also have desktools II and possibly Graph but I cannot remember
without digging through my multitude of 5 1/4" containers :)
On Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:32:30 PM UTC-4, db wrote:
> Just wondering if there is any consensus as to which word processor is considered best for the Apple ][.
I vote for ProTerm's text editor. I probably used that more, generally for informal work. It allowed me to do something productive without leaving the terminal. :) This was handy, especially while waiting for BBS' that were busy all the time.
> If you must use AppleWorks 3.0 (due to a lack of memory), download one of
>
> the pdf docs from any of the TimeOut add-ons and there will be detailed
>
> instructions on how to install it.
Well, I tried to install timeout desktop tools and it told me it's not compatible with AW version 3 : < Oh well, I'll make do with an add-on free AW. Perhaps it's because it's more what I'm used to gui-wise but I prefer multiscribe so far. I know AppleWorks is historically the killer app for it's ease of integration but I honestly hardly ever have occasion to use a spreadsheet or database. I don't plan on hooking a printer up to my IIc so I'll only be using the word processor to write notes or journal entries. Is there any way to easily (and hopefully freely) transfer and convert the file formats from the Apple II to my macmini? Also, did people use any word processor on the Apple II as a text editor for programming? Just wondering.