| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412125 is a reply to message #412115] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 19:11   |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
>>> slavery.
>>
>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>
>
> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>
Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest swapped one
ruling class for another.
--
Pete
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412126 is a reply to message #412118] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 19:27 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On 2021-11-04, Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 15:47:51 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-n7j-this> writes:
>>
>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote to
>>> comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linix,alt.folklore.computers
>>>
>>>> My wife and I just finished re-reading both _Animal Farm_ and
>>>> _Brave New World_. Both are frighteningly close to what we're
>>>> seeing today, although _Brave New World's_ "soma" has been
>>>> replaced by social media.
>>>
>>> Imagine if Facebook chose "Soma" as their new name... :)
>>
>> They may already have a SOMA[*] office. Many tech companies have
>> offices there.
>>
>> [*] south of market area
>
> I was thinking of SOcial MediA.
Good one. :-)
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412127 is a reply to message #412122] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 19:27 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-11-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of responsibility)
>> is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy.
>
> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see
> more and more why it's a bad idea.
Democracy is the worst form of government,
except for all the others.
-- Winston Churchill
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412128 is a reply to message #412125] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 19:27 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-11-04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
>>>> slavery.
>>>
>>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>
>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>
> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest swapped
> one ruling class for another.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
-- The Who
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412131 is a reply to message #412127] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 21:43 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:27:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-11-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of responsibility)
>>> is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy.
>>
>> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see
>> more and more why it's a bad idea.
>
> Democracy is the worst form of government,
> except for all the others.
> -- Winston Churchill
The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses
is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much
experience of democracy.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412135 is a reply to message #412091] |
Thu, 04 November 2021 23:51 |
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Originally posted by: 1p166
On 11/4/21 1:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400
> 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>
>> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>
> Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
"Close competitor" :-)
Sorry, but the BSDs are still kinda "unrefined".
You have to do about 50% more work to achieve the
same results.
Some may see that as good, but there could be some
debate on that subject.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412137 is a reply to message #412120] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 01:46 |
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Originally posted by: Leonard Blaisdell
On 2021-11-04, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> Clinging doggedly to the notion of literary allusion, would it sell
> better if they called it Heracliophorbia? Or Filboid Studge?
I've monitored this group for 25 years but don't think I've ever posted.
I've always run a Mac, and there is little to no Mac traffic here.
Without googling, I do know what Filboid Studge is, one of many great
Saki stories.
<https://postimg.cc/GHkV2D84>
Without googling, I have no idea what heracliophorbia is.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412138 is a reply to message #412137] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 03:01 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> On 2021-11-04, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> Clinging doggedly to the notion of literary allusion, would it sell
>> better if they called it Heracliophorbia? Or Filboid Studge?
>
> I've monitored this group for 25 years but don't think I've ever posted.
Well, about time then, eh?
> I've always run a Mac, and there is little to no Mac traffic here.
Some might say that Macs are barely old enough, even now, to be
folklore. Take heart, time flies. :-)
> Without googling, I do know what Filboid Studge is, one of many great
> Saki stories.
Just so. Full text at:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Filboid_Studge,_the_Story_of_ a_Mouse_That_Helped
> <https://postimg.cc/GHkV2D84>
>
> Without googling, I have no idea what heracliophorbia is.
H.G. Wells, The Food of the Gods.
It'th the earwigth Thir, it'th the earwigth!
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412140 is a reply to message #412122] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 03:26 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 19:10:08 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see
> more and more why it's a bad idea.
Democracy is great when an honestly informed and engaged population
chooses among a set of honest and dedicated politicians.
It's a pity that there seems to be no cause so noble and correct
that it lacks supporters willing to lie to further it and in so doing
discredit it. It is also a pity that most people are more interested in
sports, telly, booze, drugs, feuds and sex than how their country is run. It
is also a pity that many politicians seems to be more interested in feeding
at the public trough than serving the state. Just three things to fix to
get a perfect system.
The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent
dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent benevolent
dictators and the means to ensure that only such get to rule - I don't see
this as possible either.
What most people want from their government is that it lets them
get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this
criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412141 is a reply to message #412135] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 03:37 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 23:51:04 -0400
1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
> On 11/4/21 1:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400
>> 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>>
>> Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
>
> "Close competitor" :-)
>
> Sorry, but the BSDs are still kinda "unrefined".
> You have to do about 50% more work to achieve the
> same results.
BSDs are more industrial style - solid, reliable, consistent. Linux
distributions tend to be more consumer style - flashy, convenient,
constantly changing. I prefer the former.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412144 is a reply to message #412131] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 04:53 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 21:43:58 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:27:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-11-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of
>>>> responsibility)
>>>> is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy.
>>>
>>> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see
>>> more and more why it's a bad idea.
>>
>> Democracy is the worst form of government,
>> except for all the others.
>> -- Winston Churchill
>
> The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses
> is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much
> experience of democracy.
A constitutional monarchy. There is a difference.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412145 is a reply to message #412141] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 04:54 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 07:37:51 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 23:51:04 -0400 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11/4/21 1:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>>>
>>> Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
>>
>> "Close competitor" :-)
>>
>> Sorry, but the BSDs are still kinda "unrefined". You have to do
>> about 50% more work to achieve the same results.
>
> BSDs are more industrial style - solid, reliable, consistent.
Linux
> distributions tend to be more consumer style - flashy, convenient,
> constantly changing. I prefer the former.
+1.
Perhaps Linux is simpler for people to use because many management
operations only need you to know about one thing - systemd.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412149 is a reply to message #412144] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 07:38 |
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 05/11/2021 08:53, Bob Eager wrote:
>
> A constitutional monarchy. There is a difference.
A cpmpletely meaningless term, for where a country has
a monarchy, then it constitutes part of that country.
The dead hand of the monarchy in Brit weaves its way
into all corners, where in each sub division there
is a Lord Lieutenant, a direct and undemocratic representative
of the monarchy one of whose functions is to appoint
the magistracy.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412150 is a reply to message #412125] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 07:40 |
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
>>>> slavery.
>>>
>>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>>
>>
>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>
>
> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest swapped one
> ruling class for another.
>
Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great Parasite
Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412152 is a reply to message #412141] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 09:49 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 23:51:04 -0400
> 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11/4/21 1:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:02:18 -0400
>>> 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Besides we Linux people know WE are the best :-)
>>>
>>> Nah! Second best, BSD is the best :)
>>
>> "Close competitor" :-)
>>
>> Sorry, but the BSDs are still kinda "unrefined".
>> You have to do about 50% more work to achieve the
>> same results.
>
> BSDs are more industrial style - solid, reliable, consistent. Linux
> distributions tend to be more consumer style - flashy, convenient,
> constantly changing. I prefer the former.
I give you Redhat Enterprise Linux and SUSE Enterprise Linux Server. Far
more solid, reliable and consistent than any *BSD release. Ever. Hands down.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412153 is a reply to message #412150] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 10:09 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 05/11/2021 11:40, gareth evans wrote:
> On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> > For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>> > nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and
>>>> > reinvent
>>>> > slavery.
>>>>
>>>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>>
>>
>> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest
>> swapped one
>> ruling class for another.
>>
>
> Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great Parasite
> Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
>
Oh please. utterly irrelevant. FAR bigger parasites around.
--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
Frédéric Bastiat
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412154 is a reply to message #412140] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 10:47 |
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Originally posted by: Maus
On 2021-11-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 19:10:08 -0400
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see
>> more and more why it's a bad idea.
>
> Democracy is great when an honestly informed and engaged population
> chooses among a set of honest and dedicated politicians.
>
> It's a pity that there seems to be no cause so noble and correct
> that it lacks supporters willing to lie to further it and in so doing
> discredit it. It is also a pity that most people are more interested in
> sports, telly, booze, drugs, feuds and sex than how their country is run. It
Ive thrown out the telly, have little insterest in sports, now that
Dublin have been beaten, abhor drugs, so I am left with feuds and
imaginary sex. Life gets boring.
> is also a pity that many politicians seems to be more interested in feeding
> at the public trough than serving the state. Just three things to fix to
> get a perfect system.
>
> The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent
> dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent benevolent
> dictators and the means to ensure that only such get to rule - I don't see
> this as possible either.
Study the Decline and Fall of the romans. Big problems with succession.
>
> What most people want from their government is that it lets them
> get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this
> criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure.
>
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412157 is a reply to message #412113] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 11:13 |
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Originally posted by: Maus
On 2021-11-04, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>
>> On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 3:34:39 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2021-11-03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
> I do not believe that Eric Blair was reacting to anything in the US, but rather
> to the Stalinist takeover of the international Communist Party starting in the
> Spanish Civil War.
>
> Reference: _Cold Warriors: Writers who Waged the Literary Cold War_ by Duncan
> White, 2019. Covers both Western and Soviet writers, and I recommend it highly.
>
Just got it down as an EBook, looks interesting.
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412158 is a reply to message #412115] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 11:16 |
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Originally posted by: Maus
On 2021-11-04, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and reinvent
>>> slavery.
>>
>> We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>
>
> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
Wokery, I think, is somewhat correct. Onne should remember that the
Devon sailors who singed the Spanish King's beard, started off as slave
traders. The Saxons had slaves as well.
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412159 is a reply to message #412116] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 11:22 |
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Originally posted by: Maus
On 2021-11-04, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
> On 11/4/21 11:51 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Orwell was reacting, perhaps, to McCarthyism, by warning of the danger
>> that a long-continued Cold War could cause the West to become like the
>> Soviet Union.
>
> YGBSM.
>
> McCarthy was right. You are witnessing and living through a communist
> color revolution in the United States and the west in general. Your
> denial of the obvious with this anti-McCarthy tripe is just gross.
>
> The communists has already infiltrated academia and the media industrial
> complex. They were infiltrating the Federal Government and were building
> a revolutionary color revolution force within the ranks of our own
> government. McCarthy was on to them. Communism always equals death and
> mass murder. Vide Cuba if you have any doubts.
>
> They are using Stalin's salami-slicer strategy right now with the
> nonsensical COVID pandemic and the constant left vs. right agitation.
> The Bolsheviks did the same tactics before they mass murdered tens of
> millions of people.
>
> If you think you are safe by working with them, know this. After they
> take power, the first round of people they line up against the wall and
> shoot is the intelligentsia who helped them take over. It's called tying
> up loose ends.
>
One should remember that in the recent electins in Russia, the
communists came a close second to Putin's party.
A lot of ex-communists have told me,
Under Communism, we had cheap housing, not great housing, but cheap.
Under Communism, we had jobs, not great jobs, but jobs
etc, etc.
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412161 is a reply to message #412153] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 11:53 |
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 05/11/2021 14:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/11/2021 11:40, gareth evans wrote:
>> On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 04/11/2021 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> > On 03/11/2021 19:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> >> For sure, both of those speak to deep rooted truths about human
>>>> >> nature - sad really. Just wait till we get sentient robots and
>>>> >> reinvent
>>>> >> slavery.
>>>> >
>>>> > We never lost slavery. We just use poverty and debt, not chains.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>>>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational
>>>> establishments,
>>>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>>>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest
>>> swapped one
>>> ruling class for another.
>>>
>>
>> Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great
>> Parasite Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
>>
> Oh please. utterly irrelevant. FAR bigger parasites around.
You deal with your parasites; i'll deal with mine.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412164 is a reply to message #412116] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 13:05 |
D.J.
Messages: 821
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 15:22:10 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
wrote:
> On 11/4/21 11:51 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Orwell was reacting, perhaps, to McCarthyism, by warning of the danger
>> that a long-continued Cold War could cause the West to become like the
>> Soviet Union.
>
> YGBSM.
>
> McCarthy was right. You are witnessing and living through a communist
> color revolution in the United States and the west in general. Your
> denial of the obvious with this anti-McCarthy tripe is just gross.
McCarthy went after the wrong people. And the big thing now in the US
is a surgence of Facism.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412165 is a reply to message #412144] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 13:30 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 5 Nov 2021 08:53:26 GMT, Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 21:43:58 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:27:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-11-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>>>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > And now, the median human intelligence (as well as sense of
>>>> > responsibility)
>>>> > is falling below the point necessary to sustain democracy.
>>>>
>>>> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see
>>>> more and more why it's a bad idea.
>>>
>>> Democracy is the worst form of government,
>>> except for all the others.
>>> -- Winston Churchill
>>
>> The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses
>> is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much
>> experience of democracy.
>
> A constitutional monarchy. There is a difference.
Not one that makes it a democracy.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412167 is a reply to message #412153] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 13:40 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-11-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/11/2021 11:40, gareth evans wrote:
>
>> On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>>>> of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>>>> continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>>>> subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>>
>>> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest
>>> swapped one ruling class for another.
>>
>> Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great Parasite
>> Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
>
> Oh please. utterly irrelevant. FAR bigger parasites around.
Indeed. And at least the royals have entertainment value.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412168 is a reply to message #412140] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 13:40 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-11-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent
> dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent
> benevolent dictators and the means to ensure that only such
> get to rule - I don't see this as possible either.
Plus you have to ensure that the existing benevolent dictator
remains benevolent - or have a reliable mechanism for removing
him when the inevitable happens.
> What most people want from their government is that it lets them
> get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this
> criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure.
At least war on their own soil. Foreign wars are a great source
of entertainment, if nothing else.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412170 is a reply to message #412164] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 14:20 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> writes:
> McCarthy went after the wrong people. And the big thing now in the US
> is a surgence of Facism.
or resurgence ...
Social democracy ... countermeasure to capitalism and fascism, example, On War
https://www.amazon.com/War-beautifully-reproduced-illustrate d-introduction-ebook/dp/B00G3DFLY8/
loc394-95: As long as the Socialists only threatened capital they were
not seriously interfered with, for the Government knew quite well that
the undisputed sway of the employer was not for the ultimate good of the
State.
the government needed general population standard of living sufficient
that soldiers were willing to fight to preserve their way of
life. Capitalists tendency was to reduce worker standard of living to
the lowest possible ... below what the government needed for soldier
motivation ... and therefor needed socialists as counterbalance to the
capitalists in raising the general population standard of living. Saw
this fight out in the 30s, American Fascists opposing all of FDR's "new
deals" The Coming of American Fascism, 1920-1940
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/172004
The truth, then, is that Long and Coughlin, together with the
influential Communist Party and other leftist organizations, helped save
the New Deal from becoming genuinely fascist, from devolving into the
dictatorial rule of big business. The pressures towards fascism
remained, as reactionary sectors of business began to have significant
victories against the Second New Deal starting in the late 1930s. But
the genuine power that organized labor had achieved by then kept the
U.S. from sliding into all-out fascism (in the Marxist sense) in the
following decades.
.... snip ...
"Coming of America Fascism" shows socialists countered the "New Deal"
becoming fascist ... which had been the objective of the capitalists
.... thwarting the American Fascists contributed to forcing them further
into the Nazi/fascist camp. When The Bankers Plotted To Overthrow FDR
https://www.npr.org/2012/02/12/145472726/when-the-bankers-pl otted-to-overthrow-fdr
The Plots Against the President: FDR, A Nation in Crisis, and the Rise
of the American Right
https://www.amazon.com/Plots-Against-President-Nation-Americ an-ebook/dp/B07N4BLR77/
Wealthy bankers and businessmen plotted to overthrow FDR. A retired general foiled it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/01/13/fdr-roosev elt-coup-business-plot/
Wall Street's Plot to Seize the White House: Facing the Corporate Roots of American Fascism
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/53-index.html
Gen. Butler Bares 'Fascist Plot' To Seize Government by Force
https://www.nytimes.com/1934/11/21/archives/gen-butler-bares -fascist-plot-to-seize-government-by-force-says.html
The plot to overthrow FDR: How the New Deal sent conservatives into a
rage. The right's temper tantrums over Obamacare are nothing compared to
what Roosevelt had to deal with
https://www.salon.com/2014/04/18/the_plot_to_overthrow_fdr_h ow_the_new_deal_sent_conservatives_into_a_rage_partner/
Foiled Coup: The Connecticut Plot to Overthrow Franklin Roosevelt
https://www.blackstarnews.com/us-politics/justice/foiled-cou p-the-connecticut-plot-to-overthrow-franklin-roosevelt
Smedley Butler, retired USMC major general and two-time Medal of Honor
Recipient https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
.... wrote "War Is A Racket"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
.... and was asked to lead an american fascist military take-over of the
gov. and blew the whistle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
John Foster Dulles played major role rebuilding Germany economy,
industry, military from the 20s up through the early 40s
https://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Foster-Dulles-Allen-Secret-e book/dp/B00BY5QX1K/
loc865-68: In mid-1931 a consortium of American banks, eager to
safeguard their investments in Germany, persuaded the German government
to accept a loan of nearly $500 million to prevent default. Foster was
their agent. His ties to the German government tightened after Hitler
took power at the beginning of 1933 and appointed Foster's old friend
Hjalmar Schacht as minister of economics.
loc905-7: Foster was stunned by his brother's suggestion that Sullivan &
Cromwell quit Germany. Many of his clients with interests there,
including not just banks but corporations like Standard Oil and General
Electric, wished Sullivan & Cromwell to remain active regardless of
political conditions.
loc938-40: At least one other senior partner at Sullivan & Cromwell, Eustace
Seligman, was equally disturbed. In October 1939, six weeks after the
Nazi invasion of Poland, he took the extraordinary step of sending
Foster a formal memorandum disavowing what his old friend was saying
about Nazism
.... snip ...
from the law of unintended consequences, when US 1943 Strategic Bombing
program needed targets in Germany, they got plans and coordinates from
wallstreet.
American Nazis Rally in New York City. On February 20, 1939, the
pro-Nazi German American Bund drew more than 20,000 people to a rally in
Madison Square Garden.
https://newspapers.ushmm.org/events/american-nazis-rally-in- new-york-city
June1940, Germany had a victory celebration at the NYC Waldorf-Astoria
with major industrialists. Lots of them were there to hear how to do
business with the Nazis
https://www.amazon.com/Man-Called-Intrepid-Incredible-Narrat ive-ebook/dp/B00V9QVE5O/
loc1925-29: One prominent figure at the German victory celebration was
Torkild Rieber, of Texaco, whose tankers eluded the British
blockade. The company had already been warned, at Roosevelt's
instigation, about violations of the Neutrality Law. But Rieber had set
up an elaborate scheme for shipping oil and petroleum products through
neutral ports in South America.
.... snip ...
Later somewhat replay of the 1940 celebration, there was conference of
5000 industrialists and corporations from across the US at the
Waldorf-Astoria, and in part because they had gotten such a bad
reputation for the depression and supporting Nazis, as part of
attempting to refurbish their horribly corrupt and venal image, they
approved a major propaganda campaign to equate Capitalism with
Christianity.
https://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-God-Corporate-ebook/ dp/B00PWX7R56/
part of the result by the early 50s was adding "under god" to the pledge
of allegiance. slightly cleaned up version
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
False Profits: Reviving the Corporation's Public Purpose
https://www.uclalawreview.org/false-profits-reviving-the-cor porations-public-purpose/
I Origins of the Corporation. Although the corporate structure dates
back as far as the Greek and Roman Empires, characteristics of the
modern corporation began to appear in England in the mid-thirteenth
century.[4] "Merchant guilds" were loose organizations of merchants
"governed through a council somewhat akin to a board of directors," and
organized to "achieve a common purpose"[5] that was public in
nature. Indeed, merchant guilds registered with the state and were
approved only if they were "serving national purposes."[6]
.... snip ...
.... but nearly from the founding of the country there has been pressure
to allow corporations to operate in self-interest.
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412171 is a reply to message #412131] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 14:23 |
John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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According to J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>:
>> Democracy is the worst form of government,
>> except for all the others.
>> -- Winston Churchill
>
> The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses
> is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much
> experience of democracy.
His mother was American.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412173 is a reply to message #412167] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 15:18 |
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Originally posted by: Maus
On 2021-11-05, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-11-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/11/2021 11:40, gareth evans wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/11/2021 23:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>>> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > It is strange that the current wokery about removing the symbolism
>>>> > of slavery, pulling down statues or renaming educational establishments,
>>>> > continues to support the descendant spawn of the Norman invaders who
>>>> > subjugated our ancestors into the slavery of serfdom
>>>>
>>>> Your ancestors were probably already serfs. The Norman conquest
>>>> swapped one ruling class for another.
>>>
>>> Whether or not that is true, it remains that the current Great Parasite
>>> Of Windsor is founded upon slavery.
>>
>> Oh please. utterly irrelevant. FAR bigger parasites around.
>
> Indeed. And at least the royals have entertainment value.
>
I find nothing amusing about prince andrew. He reminds me of the stories
I herd the old people tell of Queen Victoria's sons in Ireland.
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412176 is a reply to message #412140] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 15:28 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 19:10:08 -0400
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or as we grow closer and closer to achieving actual democracy we see
>> more and more why it's a bad idea.
>
> Democracy is great when an honestly informed and engaged population
> chooses among a set of honest and dedicated politicians.
>
> It's a pity that there seems to be no cause so noble and correct
> that it lacks supporters willing to lie to further it and in so doing
> discredit it.
Athenian democracy brought on the Peleponnesian War. It’s never been
perfect.
It is also a pity that most people are more interested in
> sports, telly, booze, drugs, feuds and sex than how their country is run. It
> is also a pity that many politicians seems to be more interested in feeding
> at the public trough than serving the state. Just three things to fix to
> get a perfect system.
>
> The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent
> dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent benevolent
> dictators and the means to ensure that only such get to rule - I don't see
> this as possible either.
The Romans had a pretty good run of almost 200 years with this, but nothing
lasts forever.
>
> What most people want from their government is that it lets them
> get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this
> criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure.
>
Except that the people often want war. Everyone went nuts when WWI started.
--
Pete
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412177 is a reply to message #412171] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 15:37 |
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Originally posted by: Maus
On 2021-11-05, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>:
>>> Democracy is the worst form of government,
>>> except for all the others.
>>> -- Winston Churchill
>>
>> The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses
>> is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much
>> experience of democracy.
>
> His mother was American.
>
>
Churchill was a convinced Imperialist. He was at the heart of British
government for many years, and made a lot of very stupid plans, as in
the dardenelles (sp?) in WWI. and among other things, thought of
recruiting untrained -ex-soldiers to a group in Ireland during the early
stage of the Anglo-Irish war, whose aim was to combat the IRA through
terrror, but instead antagonised most people against the British.
I would agree that he was a good choice to lead the coalition in early
WWII.
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
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| Re: Who Knew ? Churchillian version [message #412181 is a reply to message #412177] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 16:02 |
John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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According to Maus <rhunDARNtheSPAM@DARNtheSPAMkatamailDARNtheSPAM.com>:
>> His mother was American.
>
> Churchill was a convinced Imperialist. He was at the heart of British
> government for many years, and made a lot of very stupid plans, as in
> the Dardanelles in WWI. and among other things, thought of
> recruiting untrained -ex-soldiers to a group in Ireland during the early
> stage of the Anglo-Irish war, whose aim was to combat the IRA through
> terrror, but instead antagonised most people against the British.
>
> I would agree that he was a good choice to lead the coalition in early WWII.
Considering his repeated high profile failures in WWI and afterward
(you missed the disastrous return to the gold standard in 1925), it
says someting about British politics that nonetheless he became P.M. in
1940 and it is utterly astonishing that he did such a good job as war P.M.
He had another stint as P.M. in 1951-55, mostly notable for his extreme poor
health, and he likely would have resigned except that his heir apparent
Anthony Eden was in even worse condition.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412183 is a reply to message #412173] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 16:04 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 5 Nov 2021 19:18:48 GMT
Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> wrote:
> I find nothing amusing about prince andrew. He reminds me of the stories
> I herd the old people tell of Queen Victoria's sons in Ireland.
Agreed, I recall hearing him called "randy Andy" when I was quite
young so it seems he got into the habit quite early on.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412184 is a reply to message #412171] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 17:14 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 18:23:41 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
wrote:
> According to J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>:
>>> Democracy is the worst form of government,
>>> except for all the others.
>>> -- Winston Churchill
>>
>> The Prime Minister of a monarchy with a parliament one of whose houses
>> is the House of Lords. I don't think he really had all that much
>> experience of democracy.
>
> His mother was American.
America wasn't a democracy either.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412185 is a reply to message #412168] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 17:17 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:40:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-11-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> The optimal form of government is probably a benevolent
>> dictatorship, provided there is an endless supply of competent
>> benevolent dictators and the means to ensure that only such
>> get to rule - I don't see this as possible either.
>
> Plus you have to ensure that the existing benevolent dictator
> remains benevolent - or have a reliable mechanism for removing
> him when the inevitable happens.
One of the major benefits of a dictator is that one person with a
rifle and a bit of luck can remove the dictator, unlike Congress which
is like a hydra--cut off one head and it sprouts two more.
>> What most people want from their government is that it lets them
>> get on with their lives with a minimum of visible interference - by this
>> criteria any government that indulges in war is an abject failure.
>
> At least war on their own soil. Foreign wars are a great source
> of entertainment, if nothing else.
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412187 is a reply to message #412185] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 17:50 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:17:21 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the major benefits of a dictator is that one person with a
> rifle and a bit of luck can remove the dictator, unlike Congress which
> is like a hydra--cut off one head and it sprouts two more.
Hmm maybe there's an approach. So we have a dictator with absolute
power except that they are not permitted any form of personal protection,
replacements selected by reality TV as needed.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412189 is a reply to message #412072] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 18:17 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 2021-11-02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2021-11-02, 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
....
>> Those STILL have
>> fans and some Linux utilities STILL support the
>> Amiga disk formats plus there are other Amiga
>> support programs too. I bought the original, but
>> there were SO many "Guru Meditation" messages
>> that I dumped the thing and bought a Sanyo-550
>> PC (semi)-Clone.
>
> The Amiga's biggest shortcoming was its lack of memory
> protection. If you stayed away from buggy software
> that stomped on random memory locations, you could
> avoid almost all Guru Meditations.
The ones that were hardest to avoid was those you caused yourself
by trying to run the code you wrote ;-)
But no, I don't remember them as a major problem. And I used to see
memory protection as a luxury item: not worth its price in terms of
hardware and in the complication of the system APIs.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412190 is a reply to message #412102] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 18:43 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 2021-11-04, Quadibloc wrote:
....
> Having only recently - some two million years ago - evolved from the
> chimpanzee, it might not be too outrageous to suppose that a significant
> proportion of the human race is not yet well-developed enough for civilized
> life.
I think few can cope well with /today's/ civilized life with
smartphones, social media, instant gratification and impending doom --
your YouTube Bubble.
Most could cope with civilized life 30 years ago, and almost everyone
can cope with sustenance farming in a village (if that's all they
know).
IMO, the problem is not the people. A lot of basically decent people
are acting crazy right now.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: Who Knew ? [message #412191 is a reply to message #412189] |
Fri, 05 November 2021 18:46 |
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Originally posted by: Maus
On 2021-11-05, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> On Tue, 2021-11-02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2021-11-02, 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote:
> ...
>>> Those STILL have
>>> fans and some Linux utilities STILL support the
>>> Amiga disk formats plus there are other Amiga
>>> support programs too. I bought the original, but
>>> there were SO many "Guru Meditation" messages
>>> that I dumped the thing and bought a Sanyo-550
>>> PC (semi)-Clone.
>>
>> The Amiga's biggest shortcoming was its lack of memory
>> protection. If you stayed away from buggy software
>> that stomped on random memory locations, you could
>> avoid almost all Guru Meditations.
>
> The ones that were hardest to avoid was those you caused yourself
> by trying to run the code you wrote ;-)
>
> But no, I don't remember them as a major problem. And I used to see
> memory protection as a luxury item: not worth its price in terms of
> hardware and in the complication of the system APIs.
>
> /Jorgen
>
--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
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