| Dead GS Rom01 [message #407201] |
Mon, 12 April 2021 17:35  |
Steven Nelson
Messages: 91
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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My workhorse IIGS died today. Worked fine yesterday. Rom01, CFFA3000 (#1),ZipGS 8/64 (#2), VidHD (#3), Uthetnet II (#4), Superdrive controller (#5, inactive), empty (#6), Hi-speed SCSI (#7, inactive). Lights on CFFA, ZipGS, UthernetII active when powered on. No beep, no video with power on. ctl-reset or cmd-ctrl-reset gives no beep.
I checked power supply which gives good +/-5v and +/- 12v readings. Replaced 65816-10 processor on zipgs with 65816-14 processor - no change.
Removed VidHD - no change.
I did get an indication of a beep a couple times. Very distorted and lower frequency, more of a buzz.
Suggestions on what is wrong or what to try next? Thanks.
--Steven
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407203 is a reply to message #407201] |
Mon, 12 April 2021 19:24  |
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Originally posted by: cruff
In article <babda48c-2469-4d08-b356-015b05d39b37n@googlegroups.com>,
Steven Nelson <nelsonse48@gmail.com> wrote:
> My workhorse IIGS died today. Worked fine yesterday. Rom01, CFFA3000 (#1),ZipGS 8/64 (#2), VidHD (#3),
> Uthetnet II (#4), Superdrive controller (#5, inactive), empty (#6), Hi-speed SCSI (#7, inactive). Lights on
> CFFA, ZipGS, UthernetII active when powered on.
> gives no beep.
Can you remoe the ZipGS and try the stock configuration?
>
> I checked power supply which gives good +/-5v and +/- 12v readings.
Did you check this under load while it was connected to the motherboard?
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407243 is a reply to message #407203] |
Wed, 14 April 2021 10:16 |
Steven Nelson
Messages: 91
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:24:13 PM UTC-5, Craig Ruff wrote:
> In article <babda48c-2469-4d08...@googlegroups.com>,
> Steven Nelson <nelso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My workhorse IIGS died today. Worked fine yesterday. Rom01, CFFA3000 (#1),ZipGS 8/64 (#2), VidHD (#3),
>> Uthetnet II (#4), Superdrive controller (#5, inactive), empty (#6), Hi-speed SCSI (#7, inactive). Lights on
>> CFFA, ZipGS, UthernetII active when powered on.
>> gives no beep.
>
> Can you remoe the ZipGS and try the stock configuration?
>>
>> I checked power supply which gives good +/-5v and +/- 12v readings.
> Did you check this under load while it was connected to the motherboard?
Thank ypu Craig. Replaced ZipGS with 65816 DIP. Not much change. Tested PS under load. Not good! Disassembled PS and found blown capacitor (1000uF?) in DC end. (Reactive Micro universal power supply kit less than a year old.) I will try replacing capacitor but my soldering skill sucks ;-). My other GS (rom3) died the same day. Its old PS gave up the ghost too. Not my day.
Take care. Apple2-4FR.
--Steven
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407253 is a reply to message #407243] |
Wed, 14 April 2021 22:03 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Steven Nelson <nelsonse48@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:24:13 PM UTC-5, Craig Ruff wrote:
>> In article <babda48c-2469-4d08...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Steven Nelson <nelso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> My workhorse IIGS died today. Worked fine yesterday. Rom01, CFFA3000
>>> (#1),ZipGS 8/64 (#2), VidHD (#3),
>>> Uthetnet II (#4), Superdrive controller (#5, inactive), empty (#6),
>>> Hi-speed SCSI (#7, inactive). Lights on
>>> CFFA, ZipGS, UthernetII active when powered on.
>>> gives no beep.
>>
>> Can you remoe the ZipGS and try the stock configuration?
>>>
>>> I checked power supply which gives good +/-5v and +/- 12v readings.
>> Did you check this under load while it was connected to the motherboard?
>
> Thank ypu Craig. Replaced ZipGS with 65816 DIP. Not much change.
> Tested PS under load. Not good! Disassembled PS and found blown
> capacitor (1000uF?) in DC end. (Reactive Micro universal power supply
> kit less than a year old.) I will try replacing capacitor but my
> soldering skill sucks ;-). My other GS (rom3) died the same day. Its
> old PS gave up the ghost too. Not my day.
>
> Take care. Apple2-4FR.
> --Steven
>
It’s well worthwhile to practice soldering if you’re into retrocomputing.
In a couple of hours you’ll be proficient enough. ;-)
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407273 is a reply to message #407253] |
Thu, 15 April 2021 19:00 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>
> It’s well worthwhile to practice soldering if you’re into retrocomputing.
> In a couple of hours you’ll be proficient enough. ;-)
>
Or you'll have burned your fingers. It's either one or the other. ;-)
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407279 is a reply to message #407273] |
Fri, 16 April 2021 03:41 |
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Originally posted by: Brian Patrie
D Finnigan wrote:
> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>
>> It’s well worthwhile to practice soldering if you’re
>> into retrocomputing.
>> In a couple of hours you’ll be proficient enough. ;-)
>
> Or you'll have burned your fingers. It's either one or the other. ;-)
Or both. ;)
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407307 is a reply to message #407290] |
Sat, 17 April 2021 18:17 |
Steven Nelson
Messages: 91
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Update: The hard part in repairing power supply was desoldering the old bulging capacitor but with patience it finally popped out. Soldering new capacitor (1000uF, 16V like the old one) onto board was easier. No burned fingers yet. The rebuilt power supply booted up the GS. It lasted a few minutes and then died. Examining the power supply it was the new capacitor that was bulging - failed. No smoke, burning signs or bad odor. But, to misuse a cliche, what is the 'magic smoke' telling me? Should I replace the cap and try again? Thanks.
--Steven
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407328 is a reply to message #407307] |
Sun, 18 April 2021 08:38 |
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Originally posted by: cruff
In article <4fc6988c-fc38-49a6-8b9e-b7ce269fd6d7n@googlegroups.com>,
Steven Nelson <nelsonse48@gmail.com> wrote:
> lasted a few minutes and then died. Examining the power supply it was
> the new capacitor that was bulging - failed. No smoke, burning signs or
> bad odor. But, to misuse a cliche, what is the 'magic smoke' telling
> me? Should I replace the cap and try again? Thanks.
Did you install the new capacitor in the correct orientation? If it was
reversed the failure mode you saw is a likely outcome. Was the
replacement of a sufficiently high voltage rating? For a switching power
supply, a low ESR capacitor is likely required depending on its location
in the circuitry.
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407336 is a reply to message #407307] |
Sun, 18 April 2021 13:26 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steven Nelson <nelsonse48@gmail.com> wrote:
> Update: The hard part in repairing power supply was desoldering the old
> bulging capacitor but with patience it finally popped out. Soldering new
> capacitor (1000uF, 16V like the old one) onto board was easier. No
> burned fingers yet. The rebuilt power supply booted up the GS. It
> lasted a few minutes and then died. Examining the power supply it was
> the new capacitor that was bulging - failed. No smoke, burning signs or
> bad odor. But, to misuse a cliche, what is the 'magic smoke' telling me?
> Should I replace the cap and try again? Thanks.
>
> --Steven
>
Hmmm. That sounds exactly like what would happen if the new capacitor was
installed with the wrong polarity. ;-)
Check that the cathode of the electrolytic capacitor is connected to the
more negative potential. That would be ground for a +5v filter capacitor.
The other more remote possibility is that the new capacitor was defective.
Electrolytic capacitors are the only type that have a serious aversion to
reverse polarity. Their markings are unambiguous, with, typically, a wide
stripe adjacent to their negative terminal.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407357 is a reply to message #407336] |
Mon, 19 April 2021 10:24 |
Steven Nelson
Messages: 91
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 12:26:52 PM UTC-5, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Steven Nelson <nelso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Update: The hard part in repairing power supply was desoldering the old
>> bulging capacitor but with patience it finally popped out. Soldering new
>> capacitor (1000uF, 16V like the old one) onto board was easier. No
>> burned fingers yet. The rebuilt power supply booted up the GS. It
>> lasted a few minutes and then died. Examining the power supply it was
>> the new capacitor that was bulging - failed. No smoke, burning signs or
>> bad odor. But, to misuse a cliche, what is the 'magic smoke' telling me?
>> Should I replace the cap and try again? Thanks.
>>
>> --Steven
>>
> Hmmm. That sounds exactly like what would happen if the new capacitor was
> installed with the wrong polarity. ;-)
>
> Check that the cathode of the electrolytic capacitor is connected to the
> more negative potential. That would be ground for a +5v filter capacitor.
>
> The other more remote possibility is that the new capacitor was defective..
>
> Electrolytic capacitors are the only type that have a serious aversion to
> reverse polarity. Their markings are unambiguous, with, typically, a wide
> stripe adjacent to their negative terminal.
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Craig and Michael are right on, correct. I installed the capacitor in same polarity as the one on each side. Wrong. I looked at another identical power supply and it has the bad cap with the opposite polarity. The caps are like pairs each with opposite polarity. So desoldering and soldering in a new cap with correct polarity and all is working again. Whew. Thanks to all for helping me 1) tackling the solder sucker and soldering iron 2) fixing my polarity problem. Apple2-4FR
--Steven
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407358 is a reply to message #407336] |
Mon, 19 April 2021 10:32 |
Steven Hirsch
Messages: 798
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 4/18/21 1:26 PM, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Electrolytic capacitors are the only type that have a serious aversion to
> reverse polarity. Their markings are unambiguous, with, typically, a wide
> stripe adjacent to their negative terminal.
>
Unless you consider them a type of electrolytic, tantalum caps are similarly
adverse to wrong polarity. And they are much more entertaining when they fail
:-).
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407382 is a reply to message #407357] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 01:24 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steven Nelson <nelsonse48@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 12:26:52 PM UTC-5, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> Steven Nelson <nelso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Update: The hard part in repairing power supply was desoldering the old
>>> bulging capacitor but with patience it finally popped out. Soldering new
>>> capacitor (1000uF, 16V like the old one) onto board was easier. No
>>> burned fingers yet. The rebuilt power supply booted up the GS. It
>>> lasted a few minutes and then died. Examining the power supply it was
>>> the new capacitor that was bulging - failed. No smoke, burning signs or
>>> bad odor. But, to misuse a cliche, what is the 'magic smoke' telling me?
>>> Should I replace the cap and try again? Thanks.
>>>
>>> --Steven
>>>
>> Hmmm. That sounds exactly like what would happen if the new capacitor was
>> installed with the wrong polarity. ;-)
>>
>> Check that the cathode of the electrolytic capacitor is connected to the
>> more negative potential. That would be ground for a +5v filter capacitor.
>>
>> The other more remote possibility is that the new capacitor was defective.
>>
>> Electrolytic capacitors are the only type that have a serious aversion to
>> reverse polarity. Their markings are unambiguous, with, typically, a wide
>> stripe adjacent to their negative terminal.
>> --
>> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
>
> Craig and Michael are right on, correct. I installed the capacitor in
> same polarity as the one on each side. Wrong. I looked at another
> identical power supply and it has the bad cap with the opposite polarity.
> The caps are like pairs each with opposite polarity. So desoldering and
> soldering in a new cap with correct polarity and all is working again.
> Whew. Thanks to all for helping me 1) tackling the solder sucker and
> soldering iron 2) fixing my polarity problem. Apple2-4FR
> --Steven
Congratulations, Steven!
You have a working IIgs *and* a new arrow in your quiver!
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407383 is a reply to message #407358] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 01:24 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/18/21 1:26 PM, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>
>> Electrolytic capacitors are the only type that have a serious aversion to
>> reverse polarity. Their markings are unambiguous, with, typically, a wide
>> stripe adjacent to their negative terminal.
>>
>
> Unless you consider them a type of electrolytic, tantalum caps are similarly
> adverse to wrong polarity. And they are much more entertaining when they fail
> :-).
>
Yes, I do consider them a type of electrolytic. Fortunately, I’ve never
experienced one complaining about reversed polarity. ;-)
So far my worst capacitor fail was an X2 polypropylene line filter. Two
weeks later, I could still barely stand to be close enough to replace it!
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407390 is a reply to message #407383] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 09:10 |
Steven Hirsch
Messages: 798
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 4/20/21 1:24 AM, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/18/21 1:26 PM, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>
>>> Electrolytic capacitors are the only type that have a serious aversion to
>>> reverse polarity. Their markings are unambiguous, with, typically, a wide
>>> stripe adjacent to their negative terminal.
>>>
>>
>> Unless you consider them a type of electrolytic, tantalum caps are similarly
>> adverse to wrong polarity. And they are much more entertaining when they fail
>> :-).
>>
>
> Yes, I do consider them a type of electrolytic. Fortunately, I’ve never
> experienced one complaining about reversed polarity. ;-)
It's entertaining - provided you don't have your face over them at the time.
> So far my worst capacitor fail was an X2 polypropylene line filter. Two
> weeks later, I could still barely stand to be close enough to replace it!
I agree. Very much equivalent to chemical warfare.
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| Re: Dead GS Rom01 [message #407411 is a reply to message #407383] |
Tue, 20 April 2021 22:29 |
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Originally posted by: Mike Spangler
I had my first experience with a RIFA last month. Engaged replacement mode on the others at once. And found another power supply where they probably would have blown the next time it was powered up.
As an oh-by-the-way, Lord Refa was a villain on Babylon 5. He also had a messy demise.
>
> So far my worst capacitor fail was an X2 polypropylene line filter. Two
> weeks later, I could still barely stand to be close enough to replace it!
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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