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Curta Calculators [message #400296] Sun, 20 September 2020 16:20 Go to next message
faux_dameron is currently offline  faux_dameron
Messages: 43
Registered: May 2020
Karma: 0
Member
If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
they wouldn't be profitable.

For those who don't know what this is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta

--
JE
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400304 is a reply to message #400296] Sun, 20 September 2020 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 20:20:58 -0000 (UTC), Jason Evans
<jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:

>
> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
> they wouldn't be profitable.

The same way an imitation of any collectable is not profitable. People
don't pay $2000 for them because of their utility, they pay it because
of their collectability.

> For those who don't know what this is:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400305 is a reply to message #400296] Sun, 20 September 2020 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 20/09/2020 22.20, Jason Evans wrote:
>
> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
> they wouldn't be profitable.
>
> For those who don't know what this is:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta

Fascinating history :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400307 is a reply to message #400296] Sun, 20 September 2020 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris

On 09/20/20 21:20, Jason Evans wrote:
>
> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
> they wouldn't be profitable.
>
> For those who don't know what this is:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta

A whole shed load of precision parts in a mechanical calculator, which
would probably cost $millions of tooling to make in 2020. There are no
short cuts to that level of precision in engineering. Then you need the
original dimensioned drawings to copy the measurements.

Even making a one of as project might take years and those machines
were notorious for jams and other problems...

Chris
>
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400312 is a reply to message #400307] Sun, 20 September 2020 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 23:30:38 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 09/20/20 21:20, Jason Evans wrote:
>>
>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>
>> For those who don't know what this is:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>
> A whole shed load of precision parts in a mechanical calculator, which
> would probably cost $millions of tooling to make in 2020. There are no
> short cuts to that level of precision in engineering. Then you need the
> original dimensioned drawings to copy the measurements.
>
> Even making a one of as project might take years and those machines
> were notorious for jams and other problems...

You can print a larger version of it on a consumer 3d printer.
>
> Chris
>>
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400315 is a reply to message #400312] Sun, 20 September 2020 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris

On 09/20/20 23:46, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 23:30:38 +0100, Chris<xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/20/20 21:20, Jason Evans wrote:
>>>
>>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>
>>> For those who don't know what this is:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>
>> A whole shed load of precision parts in a mechanical calculator, which
>> would probably cost $millions of tooling to make in 2020. There are no
>> short cuts to that level of precision in engineering. Then you need the
>> original dimensioned drawings to copy the measurements.
>>
>> Even making a one of as project might take years and those machines
>> were notorious for jams and other problems...
>
> You can print a larger version of it on a consumer 3d printer.
>>
>> Chris
>>>

Probably, but what sort of design life would that give you ?. My guess
is not very long, since these machines were stretching mechanical eng
state of the art when new and were not that reliable either. A lot of
heat treated steel parts, precision bearings and fine adjustment
tolerances etc.

Played around with Teletypes and Flexowriters years ago and both could
be a real pain to clean, adjust and keep running...

Chris


Chris
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400316 is a reply to message #400315] Sun, 20 September 2020 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 00:56:21 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 09/20/20 23:46, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 23:30:38 +0100, Chris<xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/20/20 21:20, Jason Evans wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>>
>>>> For those who don't know what this is:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>>
>>> A whole shed load of precision parts in a mechanical calculator, which
>>> would probably cost $millions of tooling to make in 2020. There are no
>>> short cuts to that level of precision in engineering. Then you need the
>>> original dimensioned drawings to copy the measurements.
>>>
>>> Even making a one of as project might take years and those machines
>>> were notorious for jams and other problems...
>>
>> You can print a larger version of it on a consumer 3d printer.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>>
>
> Probably, but what sort of design life would that give you ?. My guess
> is not very long, since these machines were stretching mechanical eng
> state of the art when new and were not that reliable either. A lot of
> heat treated steel parts, precision bearings and fine adjustment
> tolerances etc.
>
> Played around with Teletypes and Flexowriters years ago and both could
> be a real pain to clean, adjust and keep running...

A Curta isn't that kind of machine. It doesn't "run". You set a
number, turn the crank, set another number, turn the crank.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400318 is a reply to message #400296] Sun, 20 September 2020 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 2:21:00 PM UTC-6, Jason Evans wrote:
> People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
> they wouldn't be profitable.

People pay $2,000 for the original CURTA because it is a rare antique and collector's
item. If you made new ones, since they're not as convenient to use for calculation as
a $2 pocket calculator you can buy at a dollar store, you would have to set your price
below that in order for them to sell.

Not counting making _forgeries_, of course, which is a criminal enterprise.

But then, another poster has already explained this.

Still, I could be harsh. If you could manufacture quality replicas of the CURTA, the
reason that the originals are in demand as collector's items is because they're cute
and unusual - a complete mechanical adding machine with multiplication and division
that fits in your hand.

So they have indeed some appeal beyond pure rarity as a collectable, and pure utility
as a calculation device. So some people unable to afford the original would no doubt
be interested in a reproduction as a conversation piece. But how much could you charge
for it? My guess would be not more than $200.

John Savard
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400319 is a reply to message #400318] Sun, 20 September 2020 20:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 17:46:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 2:21:00 PM UTC-6, Jason Evans wrote:
>> People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>
> People pay $2,000 for the original CURTA because it is a rare antique and collector's
> item. If you made new ones, since they're not as convenient to use for calculation as
> a $2 pocket calculator you can buy at a dollar store, you would have to set your price
> below that in order for them to sell.
>
> Not counting making _forgeries_, of course, which is a criminal enterprise.
>
> But then, another poster has already explained this.
>
> Still, I could be harsh. If you could manufacture quality replicas of the CURTA, the
> reason that the originals are in demand as collector's items is because they're cute
> and unusual - a complete mechanical adding machine with multiplication and division
> that fits in your hand.
>
> So they have indeed some appeal beyond pure rarity as a collectable, and pure utility
> as a calculation device. So some people unable to afford the original would no doubt
> be interested in a reproduction as a conversation piece. But how much could you charge
> for it? My guess would be not more than $200.

That is a little more than the originals sold for, not corrected for
inflation.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400327 is a reply to message #400296] Mon, 21 September 2020 04:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2020-09-20, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
> they wouldn't be profitable.
>
> For those who don't know what this is:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>
>
Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
drawers.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400329 is a reply to message #400316] Mon, 21 September 2020 04:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niklas Karlsson is currently offline  Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2020-09-21, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 00:56:21 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> Probably, but what sort of design life would that give you ?. My guess
>> is not very long, since these machines were stretching mechanical eng
>> state of the art when new and were not that reliable either. A lot of
>> heat treated steel parts, precision bearings and fine adjustment
>> tolerances etc.
>>
>> Played around with Teletypes and Flexowriters years ago and both could
>> be a real pain to clean, adjust and keep running...
>
> A Curta isn't that kind of machine. It doesn't "run". You set a
> number, turn the crank, set another number, turn the crank.

Sure, but that doesn't make it immune to jams and other mechanical
problems.

It'd still be interesting to 3D-print and assemble one, mind you.
Perhaps if I find myself in possession of copious free time, I just
might.

Niklas
--
I suppose one corollary of what you're onto here is that we can let the
pr0n industry sponsor AI development and not have to worry about finding
more traditional sources of research funding.
-- AdB
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400331 is a reply to message #400327] Mon, 21 September 2020 04:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 2:34:25 AM UTC-6, maus wrote:

> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
> drawers.

Huh?

Curtas weren't made until after the war, and their inventor was a Holocaust survivor.

Unless you mean slave labor under Communist regimes in Eastern Europe?

John Savard
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400332 is a reply to message #400327] Mon, 21 September 2020 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niklas Karlsson is currently offline  Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2020-09-21, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
> drawers.

From looking at Wikipedia's pictures, it actually looks like something
designed just recently. Not really in line with what I imagined the
fashion of the time being.

Now I'm tempted to get one. (Though I probably would have been even if
it did look like an artifact from the mid-20th century.)

Niklas
--
The bloody handle on the back of an E450 isn't until you try to use it as
such, then it becomes less of a handle and more bloody.
-- Gary Barnes in asr
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400340 is a reply to message #400318] Mon, 21 September 2020 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris

On 09/21/20 01:46, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 2:21:00 PM UTC-6, Jason Evans wrote:
>> People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>
> People pay $2,000 for the original CURTA because it is a rare antique and collector's
> item. If you made new ones, since they're not as convenient to use for calculation as
> a $2 pocket calculator you can buy at a dollar store, you would have to set your price
> below that in order for them to sell.
>
> Not counting making _forgeries_, of course, which is a criminal enterprise.
>
> But then, another poster has already explained this.
>
> Still, I could be harsh. If you could manufacture quality replicas of the CURTA, the
> reason that the originals are in demand as collector's items is because they're cute
> and unusual - a complete mechanical adding machine with multiplication and division
> that fits in your hand.
>
> So they have indeed some appeal beyond pure rarity as a collectable, and pure utility
> as a calculation device. So some people unable to afford the original would no doubt
> be interested in a reproduction as a conversation piece. But how much could you charge
> for it? My guess would be not more than $200.
>
> John Savard

Good luck with that. The problem with duplication such machines is
not just about tooling cost, but also the labour intensive assembly
and end of line adjustments. My guess: Not much change out of $10K
to build and sell, probably a lot more for low volume...

Chris
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400348 is a reply to message #400315] Mon, 21 September 2020 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 00:56:21 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
wrote:
> On 09/20/20 23:46, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 23:30:38 +0100, Chris<xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/20/20 21:20, Jason Evans wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>>
>>>> For those who don't know what this is:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>>
>>> A whole shed load of precision parts in a mechanical calculator, which
>>> would probably cost $millions of tooling to make in 2020. There are no
>>> short cuts to that level of precision in engineering. Then you need the
>>> original dimensioned drawings to copy the measurements.
>>>
>>> Even making a one of as project might take years and those machines
>>> were notorious for jams and other problems...
>>
>> You can print a larger version of it on a consumer 3d printer.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>>
>
> Probably, but what sort of design life would that give you ?. My guess
> is not very long, since these machines were stretching mechanical eng
> state of the art when new and were not that reliable either. A lot of
> heat treated steel parts, precision bearings and fine adjustment
> tolerances etc.
>
> Played around with Teletypes and Flexowriters years ago and both could
> be a real pain to clean, adjust and keep running...

If someone wanted to spend the money, there are 3D printers that can
print metal parts with high precision. But the word 'cheap' is not in
their description.

--
Jim
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400353 is a reply to message #400327] Mon, 21 September 2020 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 21 Sep 2020 08:34:22 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2020-09-20, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>
>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>
>> For those who don't know what this is:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>
>>
> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
> drawers.

I was not aware that prisoners at Buchenwald had access to slave
labor. Tell us more.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400357 is a reply to message #400353] Mon, 21 September 2020 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elliott Roper is currently offline  Elliott Roper
Messages: 129
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 21 Sep 2020 at 18:28:24 BST, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 21 Sep 2020 08:34:22 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-09-20, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>
>>> For those who don't know what this is:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>>
>>>
>> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
>> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
>> drawers.
>
> I was not aware that prisoners at Buchenwald had access to slave
> labor. Tell us more.

The explanation is in the link to the Wikipedia article you snipped
_________________________
While I was imprisoned inside Buchenwald I had, after a few days, told the
[people] in the work production scheduling department of my ideas. The head of
the department, Mr. Munich said, 'See, Herzstark, I understand you've been
working on a new thing, a small calculating machine. Do you know, I can give
you a tip. We will allow you to make and draw everything. If it is really
worth something, then we will give it to the Führer as a present after we win
the war. Then, surely, you will be made an Aryan.' For me, that was the first
time I thought to myself, my God, if you do this, you can extend your life.
And then and there I started to draw the CURTA, the way I had imagined it.
__________________________
The snipped link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400359 is a reply to message #400357] Mon, 21 September 2020 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Pfeiffer is currently offline  Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> writes:

> On 21 Sep 2020 at 18:28:24 BST, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 21 Sep 2020 08:34:22 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2020-09-20, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>>
>>>> For those who don't know what this is:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
>>> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
>>> drawers.
>>
>> I was not aware that prisoners at Buchenwald had access to slave
>> labor. Tell us more.
>
> The explanation is in the link to the Wikipedia article you snipped
> _________________________
> While I was imprisoned inside Buchenwald I had, after a few days, told the
> [people] in the work production scheduling department of my ideas. The head of
> the department, Mr. Munich said, 'See, Herzstark, I understand you've been
> working on a new thing, a small calculating machine. Do you know, I can give
> you a tip. We will allow you to make and draw everything. If it is really
> worth something, then we will give it to the Führer as a present after we win
> the war. Then, surely, you will be made an Aryan.' For me, that was the first
> time I thought to myself, my God, if you do this, you can extend your life.
> And then and there I started to draw the CURTA, the way I had imagined it.
> __________________________
> The snipped link
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta

So the actual inventor was slave labor when he developed it, and then of
course profited from it when it actually went into production after the
war. Sounds to me like that would give it an extra good reputation...
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400361 is a reply to message #400359] Mon, 21 September 2020 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 21/09/2020 21.53, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> writes:
>> On 21 Sep 2020 at 18:28:24 BST, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 21 Sep 2020 08:34:22 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> On 2020-09-20, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>>> > anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>>> > to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>>> > I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>>> > and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>>> > years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>>> > they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>> >
>>>> > For those who don't know what this is:
>>>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
>>>> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
>>>> drawers.
>>>
>>> I was not aware that prisoners at Buchenwald had access to slave
>>> labor. Tell us more.
>>
>> The explanation is in the link to the Wikipedia article you snipped
>> _________________________
>> While I was imprisoned inside Buchenwald I had, after a few days, told the
>> [people] in the work production scheduling department of my ideas. The head of
>> the department, Mr. Munich said, 'See, Herzstark, I understand you've been
>> working on a new thing, a small calculating machine. Do you know, I can give
>> you a tip. We will allow you to make and draw everything. If it is really
>> worth something, then we will give it to the Führer as a present after we win
>> the war. Then, surely, you will be made an Aryan.' For me, that was the first
>> time I thought to myself, my God, if you do this, you can extend your life.
>> And then and there I started to draw the CURTA, the way I had imagined it.
>> __________________________
>> The snipped link
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta

I don't see what the issue is. He saw a way to survive and took it. The
slave labour was the inventor himself, and the manufacturing happened
after the war... The slavers did not benefit.

> So the actual inventor was slave labor when he developed it, and then of
> course profited from it when it actually went into production after the
> war. Sounds to me like that would give it an extra good reputation...

Indeed.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400366 is a reply to message #400357] Mon, 21 September 2020 18:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 19:00:56 GMT, Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 21 Sep 2020 at 18:28:24 BST, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 21 Sep 2020 08:34:22 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2020-09-20, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>>
>>>> For those who don't know what this is:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
>>> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
>>> drawers.
>>
>> I was not aware that prisoners at Buchenwald had access to slave
>> labor. Tell us more.
>
> The explanation is in the link to the Wikipedia article you snipped
> _________________________
> While I was imprisoned inside Buchenwald I had, after a few days, told the
> [people] in the work production scheduling department of my ideas. The head of
> the department, Mr. Munich said, 'See, Herzstark, I understand you've been
> working on a new thing, a small calculating machine. Do you know, I can give
> you a tip. We will allow you to make and draw everything. If it is really
> worth something, then we will give it to the Führer as a present after we win
> the war. Then, surely, you will be made an Aryan.' For me, that was the first
> time I thought to myself, my God, if you do this, you can extend your life.
> And then and there I started to draw the CURTA, the way I had imagined it.
> __________________________
> The snipped link
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta

There is no "snipped link". And all that you have done with your
quotation is show that the person who invented it and started the
company that produced it was at one time _himself_ slave labor.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400369 is a reply to message #400296] Mon, 21 September 2020 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joy Beeson is currently offline  Joy Beeson
Messages: 159
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 20:20:58 -0000 (UTC), Jason Evans
<jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta

I think there'd be a market for a peppermill that looks like that.

--
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGESEW/
The above message is a Usenet post.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400370 is a reply to message #400366] Mon, 21 September 2020 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elliott Roper is currently offline  Elliott Roper
Messages: 129
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 21 Sep 2020 at 23:17:24 BST, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is no "snipped link". And all that you have done with your
> quotation is show that the person who invented it and started the
> company that produced it was at one time _himself_ slave labor.


Sorry about the not-snipped link.

I'm as guilty as you are for not reading carefully.
I was responding to your "tell us more" about the slave labour.

From the linked article, one reads that Curt Herzstark had the choice of being
creative with his captors or being gassed. A shrewd cookie and master
negotiator, but not an employer of slave labour.

An earlier paragraph in the same article might leave open the possibility that
the Nazis used slave labour at his factory between 1938 and 1943 when they
forced him to stop work on the calculator to work on precision instruments for
their army. It reads as though he and his workforce were given the same
'encouragement' as he was later offered in Buchenwald. But to be pedantic,
that was explicitly not for building calculators.
--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400373 is a reply to message #400366] Mon, 21 September 2020 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Pfeiffer is currently offline  Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 19:00:56 GMT, Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 21 Sep 2020 at 18:28:24 BST, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21 Sep 2020 08:34:22 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2020-09-20, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>>> > anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>>> > to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>>> > I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>>> > and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>>> > years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>>> > they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>> >
>>>> > For those who don't know what this is:
>>>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
>>>> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
>>>> drawers.
>>>
>>> I was not aware that prisoners at Buchenwald had access to slave
>>> labor. Tell us more.
>>
>> The explanation is in the link to the Wikipedia article you snipped
>> _________________________
>> While I was imprisoned inside Buchenwald I had, after a few days, told the
>> [people] in the work production scheduling department of my ideas. The head of
>> the department, Mr. Munich said, 'See, Herzstark, I understand you've been
>> working on a new thing, a small calculating machine. Do you know, I can give
>> you a tip. We will allow you to make and draw everything. If it is really
>> worth something, then we will give it to the Führer as a present after we win
>> the war. Then, surely, you will be made an Aryan.' For me, that was the first
>> time I thought to myself, my God, if you do this, you can extend your life.
>> And then and there I started to draw the CURTA, the way I had imagined it.
>> __________________________
>> The snipped link
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>
> There is no "snipped link". And all that you have done with your
> quotation is show that the person who invented it and started the
> company that produced it was at one time _himself_ slave labor.

If I'm following the attributions correctly, Elliot posted the quote,
which effectively refutes (and appears to have been intended to refute)
maus's claim that early Curtas were made with slave labor.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400384 is a reply to message #400331] Tue, 22 September 2020 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2020-09-21, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 2:34:25 AM UTC-6, maus wrote:
>
>> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
>> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
>> drawers.
>
> Huh?
>
> Curtas weren't made until after the war, and their inventor was a Holocaust survivor.
>
> Unless you mean slave labor under Communist regimes in Eastern Europe?
>
> John Savard
>

From someone telling me years ago, maybe incorrecty, that first ones
were made in the German camps,
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400385 is a reply to message #400353] Tue, 22 September 2020 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2020-09-21, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21 Sep 2020 08:34:22 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-09-20, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> If we're going to talk about really retro tech like pencils, why hasn't
>>> anyone come out with a reproduction Curta calculator? You can buy plans
>>> to build your own with 3d printed parts, but nothing really substantial.
>>> I can imaging that they would sell even if the relatively price is high
>>> and available in small batches and the patent must have run out on them
>>> years ago. People are paying $2000+ for them on ebay so I don't see how
>>> they wouldn't be profitable.
>>>
>>> For those who don't know what this is:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>>
>>>
>> Curta's are cute, but had a sorta bad reputation, having been made
>> by slave labour in the early days. I have enough old tackle resuing in
>> drawers.
>
> I was not aware that prisoners at Buchenwald had access to slave
> labor. Tell us more.
>
>
>

See EarlierReply, probably incorrect, but the sort of thing that would
one lose interest.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400393 is a reply to message #400369] Tue, 22 September 2020 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 18:58:20 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 20:20:58 -0000 (UTC), Jason Evans
> <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>
> I think there'd be a market for a peppermill that looks like that.

Looking at the photo, I have seen some of these on various Antique
Road Shows over the years. I don't remember what evaluation they
received.

--
Jim
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400404 is a reply to message #400369] Tue, 22 September 2020 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorgen Grahn is currently offline  Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Mon, 2020-09-21, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 20:20:58 -0000 (UTC), Jason Evans
> <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>
> I think there'd be a market for a peppermill that looks like that.

Perhaps you can use the originals that way. Someone who owns one
should try.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400406 is a reply to message #400404] Tue, 22 September 2020 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 22 Sep 2020 19:20:34 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
wrote:

> On Mon, 2020-09-21, Joy Beeson wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 20:20:58 -0000 (UTC), Jason Evans
>> <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
>>
>> I think there'd be a market for a peppermill that looks like that.
>
> Perhaps you can use the originals that way. Someone who owns one
> should try.

Or sell it for 2000 bucks and buy a peppermill.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400412 is a reply to message #400296] Tue, 22 September 2020 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 4:12:13 PM UTC-6, Dave Garland wrote:

> Even assembling them is apparently pretty difficult without
> specialized tools. There's an exhaustive website at
> http://www.vcalc.net/ with info on them, including some factory drawings.

> I can't think of any other high-tech product associated with the
> country of Liechtenstein.

A mechanical calculator, however exquisitely crafted, is not necessarily high-tech
by the usual definition.

However, there definitely are, or at least were, high-tech products being made by
one Liechtenstein company. Ah, maybe not. Crypto AG, a Swiss company, was
owned by a holding company in Liechtenstein, and Gretag was also Swiss.

John Savard
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400420 is a reply to message #400412] Wed, 23 September 2020 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: David Lesher

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:


> However, there definitely are, or at least were, high-tech products being made by
> one Liechtenstein company. Ah, maybe not. Crypto AG, a Swiss company, was
> owned by a holding company in Liechtenstein, and Gretag was also Swiss.

That holding company was owned by the CIA & BND.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400443 is a reply to message #400412] Wed, 23 September 2020 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <886802f4-f047-4d80-9e53-f847355ee5een@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> I can't think of any other high-tech product associated with the
>> country of Liechtenstein.

Hilti makes a wide range of sophisticated construction and engineering equipment.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400451 is a reply to message #400443] Wed, 23 September 2020 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris

On 09/23/20 19:53, John Levine wrote:
> In article<886802f4-f047-4d80-9e53-f847355ee5een@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> I can't think of any other high-tech product associated with the
>>> country of Liechtenstein.
>
> Hilti makes a wide range of sophisticated construction and engineering equipment.
>

Quite well known for nail guns, fwir...
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400453 is a reply to message #400443] Wed, 23 September 2020 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 12:53:04 PM UTC-6, John Levine wrote:

> Hilti makes a wide range of sophisticated construction and engineering equipment.

And, like Topre (!) you will sometimes see their name on those rubber mudguards
behind the wheels of trucks... ah, yes, the good feeling of oneness with cup rubber.

John Savard
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400475 is a reply to message #400451] Thu, 24 September 2020 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 24/09/2020 00.32, Chris wrote:
> On 09/23/20 19:53, John Levine wrote:
>> In article<886802f4-f047-4d80-9e53-f847355ee5een@googlegroups.com>,
>> Quadibloc<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>  wrote:
>>>> I can't think of any other high-tech product associated with the
>>>> country of Liechtenstein.
>>
>> Hilti makes a wide range of sophisticated construction and engineering
>> equipment.
>>
>
> Quite well known for nail guns, fwir...

Once I ran over a Hilti drill that the man forgot on the asphalt. I
think it survived.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400493 is a reply to message #400475] Thu, 24 September 2020 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris

On 09/24/20 10:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 24/09/2020 00.32, Chris wrote:
>> On 09/23/20 19:53, John Levine wrote:
>>> In article<886802f4-f047-4d80-9e53-f847355ee5een@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Quadibloc<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> > I can't think of any other high-tech product associated with the
>>>> > country of Liechtenstein.
>>>
>>> Hilti makes a wide range of sophisticated construction and
>>> engineering equipment.
>>>
>>
>> Quite well known for nail guns, fwir...
>
> Once I ran over a Hilti drill that the man forgot on the asphalt. I
> think it survived.
>
>

Quite likely, designed for everyday constant use, abuse, building sites
etc, by those with little mechanical sensitivity and who don't care.

If, like me, you sometimes buy power tools s/h at machinery sales or
car boots, you need to watch out for spares availability. No spare
parts for some older Hilti, whereas I can still get parts for a Bosch
power drill I bought new in 1983. Makita are good too...

Chris
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400497 is a reply to message #400493] Thu, 24 September 2020 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:
> On 09/24/20 10:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 24/09/2020 00.32, Chris wrote:
>>> On 09/23/20 19:53, John Levine wrote:
>>>> In article<886802f4-f047-4d80-9e53-f847355ee5een@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Quadibloc<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> >> I can't think of any other high-tech product associated with the
>>>> >> country of Liechtenstein.
>>>>
>>>> Hilti makes a wide range of sophisticated construction and
>>>> engineering equipment.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Quite well known for nail guns, fwir...
>>
>> Once I ran over a Hilti drill that the man forgot on the asphalt. I
>> think it survived.
>>
>>
>
> Quite likely, designed for everyday constant use, abuse, building sites
> etc, by those with little mechanical sensitivity and who don't care.
>
> If, like me, you sometimes buy power tools s/h at machinery sales or
> car boots, you need to watch out for spares availability. No spare
> parts for some older Hilti, whereas I can still get parts for a Bosch
> power drill I bought new in 1983. Makita are good too...
>
> Chris
>
>

For those prices you can afford two - one foe spares.

--
Pete
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400498 is a reply to message #400493] Thu, 24 September 2020 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Spencer is currently offline  Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> writes:

> If, like me, you sometimes buy power tools s/h at machinery sales or
> car boots, you need to watch out for spares availability. No spare
> parts for some older Hilti, whereas I can still get parts for a Bosch
> power drill I bought new in 1983. Makita are good too...

Late 1970s, went in person to Halifax Black & Decker depot for an
essential replacement part for my 1925 1/2" electric drill.

The Guy started at the left of a long shelf with the microfiche
(remember them? Before ubiquitous computers?) binders, then the
ordinary ring binders, then the fat bound catalogs, thin bound
catalogs. Very last item on the shelf, greasy, tattered, abour 20
pages, located the part number. Brush holder, 3 on hand, I bought 2.

Circa 2003, I phoned B&D about a bearing for a B&D angle grinder
bought new in 1977. Young-sounding guy on phone: "Wow! That's an
*old* one." (They had other parts but not the bearing which I had to
get from a seals-&-bearing house.)

ObAFC: I recall seeing ads for Curtas in SciAm when I was in high
school, late 50s. Didn't grasp, at the time, what a remarkable
thing it was.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400504 is a reply to message #400493] Thu, 24 September 2020 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 17:44:40 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 09/24/20 10:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 24/09/2020 00.32, Chris wrote:
>>> On 09/23/20 19:53, John Levine wrote:
>>>> In article<886802f4-f047-4d80-9e53-f847355ee5een@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Quadibloc<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> >> I can't think of any other high-tech product associated with the
>>>> >> country of Liechtenstein.
>>>>
>>>> Hilti makes a wide range of sophisticated construction and
>>>> engineering equipment.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Quite well known for nail guns, fwir...
>>
>> Once I ran over a Hilti drill that the man forgot on the asphalt. I
>> think it survived.
>>
>>
>
> Quite likely, designed for everyday constant use, abuse, building sites
> etc, by those with little mechanical sensitivity and who don't care.
>
> If, like me, you sometimes buy power tools s/h at machinery sales or
> car boots, you need to watch out for spares availability. No spare
> parts for some older Hilti, whereas I can still get parts for a Bosch
> power drill I bought new in 1983. Makita are good too...

I finally had to retire my Bosch saber saw that I bought in 1979. A
piece broke that I could not get from Bosch USA--Bosch UK had it in
stock but wouldn't ship it to me.
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400514 is a reply to message #400504] Thu, 24 September 2020 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris

On 09/24/20 20:46, J. Clarke wrote:

>
> I finally had to retire my Bosch saber saw that I bought in 1979. A
> piece broke that I could not get from Bosch USA--Bosch UK had it in
> stock but wouldn't ship it to me.
>

Should have asked, someone here would have handled it. Have a
Makita jigsaw, again 20+ years old, but no noticeable wear on
the commutator and gets a strip down every few years for a clean
and repack grease in the mechanics. Ball or needle roller bearing
throughout, just like the Bosch drill...

Chris
Re: Curta Calculators [message #400519 is a reply to message #400514] Thu, 24 September 2020 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Joe Pfeiffer is currently offline  Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
40 years ago when my then-girlfriend (now wife) were doing Time Speed
Distance rallies, I really wanted a Curta but couldn't afford it. Now I
don't have the application, but would still really like one -- and still
can't afford it...
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