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Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395606] Tue, 09 June 2020 21:13 Go to next message
gids.rs is currently offline  gids.rs
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I have been reporting the Posts that are in other languages and from other countries and non Apple II related as abuse.

The posts that I reported as abuse are just being hidden as a single line, but are still there for me to click on.

Now I am getting spammed to my personal email and I believe it is because of my reports.

My questions are:

Is any one else getting personal spams more than usual.

and if not, there should be no way for the poster to know who is reporting their posts of abuse.

What the hell is Google doing giving out my email address as the one reporting the posts of abuse?
Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395607 is a reply to message #395606] Tue, 09 June 2020 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tempest is currently offline  Tempest
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I've been reporting them as spam as well but I haven't noticed anything in my email.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395610 is a reply to message #395607] Wed, 10 June 2020 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spectrumdaddy is currently offline  spectrumdaddy
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Tempest <reichert2084@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been reporting them as spam as well but I haven't noticed anything in
> my email

Who are you reporting them to? Usenet is an open system, accessed from
many directions, so groups cannot be moderated in the usual way. There
are probably thousands of different servers which all synchronise with
each other, and which cannot be controlled...

It is up to you to add a spam filter to your Usenet client if you don't
like what you see.

Cheers - Ewen
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395615 is a reply to message #395610] Wed, 10 June 2020 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
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Ewen,
we report it to Google through Google Groups.
I keep on reporting the Italian spams, the messages are "This topic has been hidden because you reported it for abuse." but I have never seen any of my personal info there.

Antoine
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395616 is a reply to message #395606] Wed, 10 June 2020 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Blakeney is currently offline  Jeff Blakeney
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On 2020-06-09 9:13 p.m., I am Rob wrote:
> I have been reporting the Posts that are in other languages and from
> other countries and non Apple II related as abuse.
>
> The posts that I reported as abuse are just being hidden as a single
> line, but are still there for me to click on.
>
> Now I am getting spammed to my personal email and I believe it is
> because of my reports.
>
> My questions are:
>
> Is any one else getting personal spams more than usual.
>
> and if not, there should be no way for the poster to know who is
> reporting their posts of abuse.
>
> What the hell is Google doing giving out my email address as the one
> reporting the posts of abuse?

Google isn't giving out your e-mail address. You are. All Usenet
messages have a from field with an e-mail address. If you give your
provider your real e-mail address, it is sent out that way and any bots
can pull your address from usenet and add it to their list.

If you look at the "From" field on this message you will see that I
changed my e-mail address so that a person needs to modify it to be able
to e-mail me. I've been doing that for almost 30 years now. I used to
have a signature line on every message that said "CUT the obvious from
my address to e-mail me".

Like other have mentioned, there is no governing body for Usenet. It is
up to you to protect your information and to block or ignore messages
you don't care about. The ones you've been reporting I just delete from
Thunderbird when I come across them.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395617 is a reply to message #395616] Wed, 10 June 2020 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gids.rs is currently offline  gids.rs
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I don’t use Usenet.

Google groups can be read through any web browser.

There is a “report Abuse” option under one of the tabs.

The reason I think my email address was picked up from here is because I also recently started reporting the abuse as “violent content”, instead of “Other” to see if it would have an effect that Google would filter out this garbage.

A spambot might be able to pick up everyones real email from here, but the parties sending the unwanted posts should not know who is reporting the abuse.

The timing seems too coincidental.

Also you who think you are protected with Usenet should think again.

You may not have your real email address posted here, but it is not that hard to cross reference either your name or your handle with other Forums, Facebook, and other companies that may be spam-botted to collect information.

Sooner or later, everyone has to give their real email address over the internet.
Italian spam, was Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong... [message #395618 is a reply to message #395615] Wed, 10 June 2020 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D Finnigan is currently offline  D Finnigan
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Antoine Vignau wrote:
> Ewen,
> we report it to Google through Google Groups.
> I keep on reporting the Italian spams, the messages are "This topic has
> been hidden because you reported it for abuse." but I have never seen any
> of my personal info there.

There are two sides to this Italian story. For the past several months,
those posts have been arriving at the Usenet archive at my web site, and
were automatically flagged as spam. But they are still accessible from a
Google search, because Google still indexes them on my web site.

Twice so far this year, and most recently, about two months ago, I received
a "defamation removal" order from an Italian law firm, linking to these
Italian spam posts on my web site. The request is that these posts be
deleted, citing article 17 of EU Regulation 2016/679.

At first I didn't do anything, because I couldn't tell if the email was a
legitimate request or not. But the next week, I received another email from
the same law firm. This time I read the email and clicked the links that
they wanted to be removed.

Sure enough, it was those Italian spam posts. So I deleted them from the
database.

I then modified my Usenet spam filter so that those posts are never added to
the database at all. I have not received any more take down requests.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395619 is a reply to message #395606] Wed, 10 June 2020 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Scott Alfter

In article <63998062-bf50-4645-b41a-0f79e4bfc3aco@googlegroups.com>,
I am Rob <gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote:
> I have been reporting the Posts that are in other languages and from
> other countries and non Apple II related as abuse.

Reporting to who? Usenet is a decentralized, federated network. There is
no central authority pulling the levers, just the consensus of the server
operators. Learn how to use your newsreader's killfile so you can block
whoever/whatever you don't want to see.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395620 is a reply to message #395619] Wed, 10 June 2020 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gids.rs is currently offline  gids.rs
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What do you mean “reporting to who?”

Does it not make sense that google created google groups? And I imagine google is a large enough company to have their own servers.

All your posts and mine go through google whether you use Usenet or not. If it didn’t, then I wouldn’t be able to see your posts and you wouldn’t be able to see mine.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395621 is a reply to message #395610] Wed, 10 June 2020 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gids.rs is currently offline  gids.rs
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It does not matter if Usenet is an open system or not.

How are you connecting to this Forum? Do you not have to enter “google.groups.comp.sys.apple2” somewhere in your Usenet reader to link to this forum.

If you are, then you are more than likely going through Google’s servers.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395623 is a reply to message #395621] Wed, 10 June 2020 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anthony Lawther is currently offline  Anthony Lawther
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Member
I am Rob <gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote:
> It does not matter if Usenet is an open system or not.
>
> How are you connecting to this Forum? Do you not have to enter
> “google.groups.comp.sys.apple2” somewhere in your Usenet reader to link to this forum.
>
> If you are, then you are more than likely going through Google’s servers.
>

You seem to have it backwards. Some of us access this Usenet news group via
one of the Usenet servers. This is the open federated system that Google
groups provides access to. The Usenet address of this newsgroup is simply
comp.sys.apple2

While Google might be able to provide a filter for you, it can’t remove
those messages from Usenet. As I don’t use the Google gripes interface I
don’t know whether it allows a poster to see the email address of a user
that reports a message.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395624 is a reply to message #395621] Wed, 10 June 2020 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sicklittlemonkey is currently offline  sicklittlemonkey
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On Thursday, 11 June 2020 05:56:43 UTC+10, I am Rob wrote:
> It does not matter if Usenet is an open system or not.
>
> How are you connecting to this Forum? Do you not have to enter “google.groups.comp.sys.apple2” somewhere in your Usenet reader to link to this forum.

The Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.apple2 was created March 5th 1990. Other groups go back to 1980.

Later, Google came along. Google Groups has a gateway between most if not all Usenet newsgroups and their own group system.

Cheers,
Nick.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395625 is a reply to message #395623] Wed, 10 June 2020 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gids.rs is currently offline  gids.rs
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> While Google might be able to provide a filter for you, it can’t remove
> those messages from Usenet. As I don’t use the Google gripes interface I
> don’t know whether it allows a poster to see the email address of a user
> that reports a message.


Google doesn't provide a filter. They provide a tab with some options and one of the options is to report abuse. This is the statement that comes up..


"Google takes abuse of its services very seriously. We're committed to dealing with such abuse according to the laws in your country of residence. When you submit a report, we'll investigate it and take the appropriate action. We'll get back to you only if we require additional details or have more information to share.

Group Name: comp.sys.apple2
Subjet:
Auther:

Type of abuse:

1) Spam

2) Hateful or violent content

3) Personal or private information

4) Promotion of regulated goods and services

5) Other

" end-quote.


I recently stopped selecting 1) Spam or 5) Other and started selecting 2) Hateful or violent content, hoping to get a response from google.

I have not had any personal email spam until I started selecting #2. In their initial line, Google quoted they will investigate the posts and take appropriate action.

But before now, since they can probably read this post and I am admitting I reported the posts, the spam posters should have had no way of knowing that it was me personally. And since none you are receiving spam posts (and I am sure some of you have your real email here), the only conclusion then is that Google released the name of the person reporting the abuse. And the spam posters got my email address from here.

Email addresses show up when one clicks on reply and the original message is quoted. When pressing the POST button, it also warns you if an email address has been included in the post and gives one the option to edit the post. I have always edited the post to remove any email addresses.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395626 is a reply to message #395624] Wed, 10 June 2020 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gids.rs is currently offline  gids.rs
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On Wednesday, June 10, 2020 at 8:19:09 PM UTC-6, Nick Westgate wrote:
> On Thursday, 11 June 2020 05:56:43 UTC+10, I am Rob wrote:
>> It does not matter if Usenet is an open system or not.
>>
>> How are you connecting to this Forum? Do you not have to enter “google.groups.comp.sys.apple2” somewhere in your Usenet reader to link to this forum.
>
> The Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.apple2 was created March 5th 1990. Other groups go back to 1980.
>
> Later, Google came along. Google Groups has a gateway between most if not all Usenet newsgroups and their own group system.
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.


Everything you have said here doesn't mean that Google doesn't currently have their hands in it, whether as a part owner, shares, supplying the servers, etc.

They may not have initially created the group, but I would bet a lifetimes salary they have some control or investment into the enterprise that houses the servers for the groups or forums.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395627 is a reply to message #395620] Thu, 11 June 2020 00:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: awanderin

I am Rob <gids.rs@sasktel.net> writes:

> What do you mean “reporting to who?”
>
> Does it not make sense that google created google groups? And I
> imagine google is a large enough company to have their own servers.
>
> All your posts and mine go through google whether you use Usenet or
> not. If it didn’t, then I wouldn’t be able to see your posts and you
> wouldn’t be able to see mine.

Google is not the *source* of the newsgroups. I think that's what many
of the other posters here are trying to tell you. Some people access
the newsgroups via Google Groups (GG) and those particular messages
originate within the GG system, but propagate to Usenet (NNTP) servers
around the globe. Those of use who never use GG receive those messages
as well as all the others that originate from other Usenet servers. The
protocol is decentralized.

It makes sense that Google created Google Groups, and sure, Google
manages the servers that talk to Usenet servers, and store the
messages. Google probably has other, non-Usenet, groups for all I know,
and that's fine, but that has nothing to do with the Usenet hierarchy of
news groups like comp.sys.apple2, etc. Nor is Google the central hub of
Usenet messages. Usenet doesn't have hubs. We can all see each others'
messages because GG participates in the Usenet news protocols.


--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395628 is a reply to message #395626] Thu, 11 June 2020 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raymond Wiker is currently offline  Raymond Wiker
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I am Rob <gids.rs@sasktel.net> writes:

> On Wednesday, June 10, 2020 at 8:19:09 PM UTC-6, Nick Westgate wrote:
>> On Thursday, 11 June 2020 05:56:43 UTC+10, I am Rob wrote:
>>> It does not matter if Usenet is an open system or not.
>>>
>>> How are you connecting to this Forum? Do you not have to enter
>>> “google.groups.comp.sys.apple2” somewhere in your Usenet reader to
>>> link to this forum.
>>
>> The Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.apple2 was created March 5th
>> 1990. Other groups go back to 1980.
>>
>> Later, Google came along. Google Groups has a gateway between most
>> if not all Usenet newsgroups and their own group system.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>
>
> Everything you have said here doesn't mean that Google doesn't
> currently have their hands in it, whether as a part owner, shares,
> supplying the servers, etc.
>
> They may not have initially created the group, but I would bet a
> lifetimes salary they have some control or investment into the
> enterprise that houses the servers for the groups or forums.

You'd want to reconsider that bet. Usenet has always been a distributed
network of servers owned by different institutions and companies, and
Google is just one of them. The two native protocols for Usenet are NNTP
(for transferring content between servers) and NNRP (for client access to
a server). Google uses NNTP to connect to Usenet, but provide client
access via their web application.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395629 is a reply to message #395615] Thu, 11 June 2020 02:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spectrumdaddy is currently offline  spectrumdaddy
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Antoine,

> we report it to Google through Google Groups.
> I keep on reporting the Italian spams, the messages are
> "This topic has been hidden because you reported it for abuse."
> but I have never seen any of my personal info there.

Ah! That might possibly stop the messages for those who read Usenet
using Google Groups, but as many of us don't use that route, and the
spammer may not be using Google Groups, it won't stop them appearing. In
essence, you cannot stop anyone posting to Usenet, as it is an open
system.

As others have said, Google Groups is not Usenet, and is only acting as
one of the many windows into it that you can use. I use AstraWeb, and
others may use GigaNews, and David has pointed out he has an archive of
the Apple II groups, but they are all simply clients accessing one of
the chain of servers round the world that hold the Usenet messages.

For those who don't know how Usenet works, this explains it very simply:
https://digitalconqurer.com/gadgets/what-is-usenet-and-how-d oes-it-work/

As Jeff has pointed out, you should never use your real email address
when you post to Usenet, from whatever route that may be.

Cheers - Ewen
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395630 is a reply to message #395620] Thu, 11 June 2020 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Scott Alfter

In article <e451d560-45d6-4c09-88a9-e909392d93bfo@googlegroups.com>,
I am Rob <gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote:
> What do you mean “reporting to who?”
>
> Does it not make sense that google created google groups? And I imagine
> google is a large enough company to have their own servers.

They bought the DejaNews archive and put a web interface on it.

What they do with their servers has no bearing with the rest of Usenet.
Cancel messages had been abused for so long that nobody honors them anymore.

> All your posts and mine go through google whether you use Usenet or not.
> If it didn’t, then I wouldn’t be able to see your posts and you
> wouldn’t be able to see mine.

True, but they don't have any special control over other servers that those
other servers don't have. Google can take down all the posts it wants;
they'll still show up at Astraweb, Eternal September, etc.

That's what ultimately makes "reporting" a post pointless.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395631 is a reply to message #395621] Thu, 11 June 2020 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Scott Alfter

In article <dc25faa6-9b9f-44cb-967b-6f458875c437o@googlegroups.com>,
I am Rob <gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote:
> It does not matter if Usenet is an open system or not.
>
> How are you connecting to this Forum? Do you not have to enter
> “google.groups.comp.sys.apple2” somewhere in your Usenet reader to
> link to this forum.

No. It's called comp.sys.apple2...there's no "google" anywhere in there.
Up until about 1990 or so, it was comp.sys.apple (without a 2 on the end),
but clueless Mac users kept asking questions there instead of using their
comp.sys.mac.* groups, so the "2" was tacked on the end. Note that this
change happened about eight years before Google even came into existence, as
https://infogalactic.com/info/Google informs us that the company was founded
in 1998.

This is what's in my .newsrc file: a list of newsgroups to which I'm
subscribed (or was for the ones ending in "!") and the range of messages in
each that have been read. Google doesn't show up in any of them.

rec.crafts.brewing: 1-140671
comp.sys.apple2: 1-115821
comp.sys.apple2.marketplace: 1-8934
comp.sys.mac.vintage: 1-1616
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips!
rec.arts.startrek.misc: 1-6148
comp.sys.ti: 1-1968
comp.os.linux.hardware: 1-49305
alt.video.ptv.mythtv!
news.groups.proposals!
comp.misc: 1-21755
misc.news.internet.discuss!
sci.misc!
alt.tasteless: 1-103819
comp.binaries.apple2: 1-14083199
comp.sys.raspberry-pi: 1-24075

Also, it's not a forum. It's a newsgroup.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395632 is a reply to message #395626] Thu, 11 June 2020 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Scott Alfter

In article <09066476-620a-4045-80f3-a944bc9ae1b8o@googlegroups.com>,
I am Rob <gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote:
> [Google] may not have initially created the group, but I would bet a
> lifetimes salary they have some control or investment into the
> enterprise that houses the servers for the groups or forums.

Over the servers they own that run their web interface and archive? Yes.
Over the rest of the servers that constitute Usenet? Not so much.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395633 is a reply to message #395632] Thu, 11 June 2020 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
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Senior Member
Relax Gentlemen :-)
We know the differences between the different approaches, servers, protocols, etc.

We are wondering why that Google option serves no purpose at all out of hiding the message to the reporter.

I would appreciate the messages from that weird person from being hidden or marked as spam whenever s/he creates one. Understand a rule as we have in email clients.

Antoine
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395636 is a reply to message #395606] Thu, 11 June 2020 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

If you read these usenet messages from usenet, not google, everyone of them has your (the sender's) email address plainly visible at the top.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395638 is a reply to message #395617] Fri, 12 June 2020 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Blakeney is currently offline  Jeff Blakeney
Messages: 125
Registered: September 2013
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Senior Member
First off, let me explain where I think your misunderstanding is coming
from. Google did create a service called Google Groups. People can
create forums there and they can be moderated and Google is ultimately
responsible for things that are posted in those groups. This is why
there is an option to report messages.

As an added service, Google added the ability to access Usenet messages
through their Google Groups web interface. However, Google has no
control over those messages. Usenet is a completely separate,
decentralized, unmoderated system that can be access in many ways from
servers all over the world.

I use Google for a lot of things but reading Usenet messages isn't one
of them.

On 2020-06-10 10:55 a.m., I am Rob wrote:
> I don’t use Usenet.

You are posting in comp.sys.apple2 so you are definitely using Usenet,
just not directly.

> Google groups can be read through any web browser.
>
> There is a “report Abuse” option under one of the tabs.
This will cause Google to take action if it is one of their own Google
Groups forums. Google can do nothing about what happens on Usenet. I
suppose if they keep a local copy of Usenet messages on their servers
they could flag it or delete it after someone reports it but it will
still exist on Usenet even if it is no longer available through Google
Groups.

> The reason I think my email address was picked up from here is
> because I also recently started reporting the abuse as “violent
> content”, instead of “Other” to see if it would have an effect that
> Google would filter out this garbage.
Most likely just a coincidence. Unless you think that Google is working
with the spammers or that the spammers are somehow monitoring your web
activity. Again, Google has no control over the messages or the
accounts used to post them on Usenet.

> A spambot might be able to pick up everyones real email from here,
> but the parties sending the unwanted posts should not know who is
> reporting the abuse.
I'm positive that the parties sending unwanted posts are not being told
who is reporting their messages. If you replied to any of the spam
messages then they would have been able to grab your e-mail address even
quicker as they could be notified about the reply. That could have been
what started them too.

> The timing seems too coincidental.

That's the funny thing about coincidence, it is very coincidental. :)

> Also you who think you are protected with Usenet should think again.
>
> You may not have your real email address posted here, but it is not
> that hard to cross reference either your name or your handle with
> other Forums, Facebook, and other companies that may be spam-botted
> to collect information.
>
> Sooner or later, everyone has to give their real email address over
> the internet.
Spammers do not do any work themselves. It is far too costly in time to
cross reference things and writing an AI routine to do if for you would
also be difficult. They are taking the easy route to try to make a fast
buck. The bots will pull anything that looks like an e-mail address and
add it to their list. They will send to all the addresses in their list
and if any of them return an error, they simply delete that address from
the list. These days, most e-mail servers don't send error messages,
they simply ignore invalid addresses.

Also, the modified e-mail address I have listed here isn't my only
e-mail address. I have a main address, a lesser used address and a junk
address. My main address is kept pretty locked down and if things get
really bad with the others, I can delete them and create new ones.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395639 is a reply to message #395638] Sat, 13 June 2020 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
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The Italian spammer posted a message yesterday evening. I see it through Google Groups.

Do non Google groups readers have it?

Antoine
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395640 is a reply to message #395639] Sat, 13 June 2020 02:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
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Senior Member
On Fri, 12 Jun 2020, Antoine Vignau wrote:

> The Italian spammer posted a message yesterday evening. I see it through Google Groups.
>
> Do non Google groups readers have it?
>
> Antoine
>

Eternal September. I see it.

-uso.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395641 is a reply to message #395639] Sat, 13 June 2020 03:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spectrumdaddy is currently offline  spectrumdaddy
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Antoine ,

> The Italian spammer posted a message yesterday evening.
> I see it through Google Groups.
>
> Do non Google groups readers have it?

It got to Astraweb...
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395642 is a reply to message #395641] Sat, 13 June 2020 03:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
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Thank you for checking,
av
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395741 is a reply to message #395642] Sun, 14 June 2020 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spectrumdaddy is currently offline  spectrumdaddy
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Antoine,

> Thank you for checking,

Pas de problème...

Ewen
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395752 is a reply to message #395741] Sun, 14 June 2020 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roughana is currently offline  roughana
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It depresses me that of the 7 new posts in csa2 since I last checked, they
are all in this thread.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395759 is a reply to message #395752] Sun, 14 June 2020 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gids.rs is currently offline  gids.rs
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It could be worse, At one time there were no posts at all except Spanish spam posts.

Mostly due to there being quite a few a—holes on this group who feel a need to correct everyone else, and a few more who feel a need to attack the same person their fellow countryman did.

It disgusts me that half of the posts were to correct me and those that did posted crap and tried to pass it off as fact. No wonder a once thriving community is now almost dead.
There is no place for insecure cliques on these forums.

Now back to the issue at hand.

I posted Googles abuse policy for everyone to read. Google wouldn’t make such claims if they didn’t have any kind of authority.

And they make no contradiction as to where the posts originate from, from Googles own groups, through Usenet or where ever. It makes sense that if Usenet had the ability to filter foreign spam posts, and if they originated from there, they wouldn’t be passing them on through to Google.

I simply started this thread in hopes to isolate who has the control and power to, and who to complain, and or report to.

Google’s policy offers some kind of mechanism for reporting abuse and is at least a start where to begin.

If you are not willing to help keep these groups alive and clean, then they will just get over run by foreign spam posts and might as well be shut down.

Being a clean group also includes anyone who feels a need to gang up on another member, they are useless on this group.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395765 is a reply to message #395636] Sun, 14 June 2020 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Glaeken Trismegestus

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 19:27:47 -0700, James Davis wrote:

> If you read these usenet messages from usenet, not google, everyone of
> them has your (the sender's) email address plainly visible at the top.

Like this?
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395771 is a reply to message #395759] Sun, 14 June 2020 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D Finnigan is currently offline  D Finnigan
Messages: 1154
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Senior Member
I am Rob wrote:
>
> Google’s policy offers some kind of mechanism for reporting abuse and is
> at
> least a start where to begin.
>
> If you are not willing to help keep these groups alive and clean, then
> they
> will just get over run by foreign spam posts and might as well be shut
> down.
>

You and everyone else who don't care for such posts are welcome to use Mac
GUI Usenet, which is filtered automatically.

https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1

You can also receive digests by email.

--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395788 is a reply to message #395759] Mon, 15 June 2020 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Blakeney is currently offline  Jeff Blakeney
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Registered: September 2013
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On 2020-06-14 11:23 a.m., I am Rob wrote:
> I posted Googles abuse policy for everyone to read. Google wouldn’t
> make such claims if they didn’t have any kind of authority.
>
> And they make no contradiction as to where the posts originate from,
> from Googles own groups, through Usenet or where ever. It makes
> sense that if Usenet had the ability to filter foreign spam posts,
> and if they originated from there, they wouldn’t be passing them on
> through to Google.
>
> I simply started this thread in hopes to isolate who has the control
> and power to, and who to complain, and or report to.


And several of us have told you that Usenet newsgroups have no one in
control and no one has the power to do anything about spammers or other
inappropriate posts. The server you are using to access the newsgroups
can be asked to remove certain posts from their servers so others using
that server in the future will not see it. However, they almost
certainly won't automatically stop all posts from a specific "From"
account (which is super easy for spammers to change and thus circumvent)
and they definitely cannot delete someones account that is posting on
another server.

There were servers in the past stopped carrying certain groups such as
the binaries ones because they were being used to share pirated wares
and pornography but that just meant they weren't accessible from those
servers, not that those groups were deleted from Usenet.

Apparently MacGUI's Usenet interface has someone manually cleaning the
messages but those messages are still on all the other servers.


> Google’s policy offers some kind of mechanism for reporting abuse and
> is at least a start where to begin.
>
> If you are not willing to help keep these groups alive and clean,
> then they will just get over run by foreign spam posts and might as
> well be shut down.
>
> Being a clean group also includes anyone who feels a need to gang up
> on another member, they are useless on this group.


If you choose to ignore the people who have been using these groups for
around 30 years (29 years for myself), which is longer than Google or
even the World Wide Web has existed, then you are free to keep sending
abuse reports to Google and all we can do is to politely ask you to stop
posting about your lack of results here but we can't stop you from doing so.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395792 is a reply to message #395759] Mon, 15 June 2020 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Glaeken Trismegestus

Google can fuck right off. They have no control over Usenet. I think you
are having a hard time with not being able to complain and have some big
company jump in and censor. If you want that, you can go to Twitter or
Facebook.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395825 is a reply to message #395792] Tue, 16 June 2020 00:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gids.rs is currently offline  gids.rs
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Thanks to Jeff and Glaeken we isolated that Usenet is an insecure piece of garbage that is unsecurely showing people's email address where at least Google hides peoples email addresses and you have to be a member to see it.

There should be one more step for security though, that the email Has to be valid and a reply made to join a group.

That way a spam post with an invalid return address wouldn’t be allowed to post.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395829 is a reply to message #395825] Tue, 16 June 2020 01:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
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On Mon, 15 Jun 2020, I am Rob wrote:

> Thanks to Jeff and Glaeken we isolated that Usenet is an insecure piece
> of garbage that is unsecurely showing people's email address where at
> least Google hides peoples email addresses and you have to be a member
> to see it.
>
> There should be one more step for security though, that the email Has to
> be valid and a reply made to join a group.
>
> That way a spam post with an invalid return address wouldn’t be allowed
> to post.

Usenet is older than *me* and hasn't changed much in that time.

Par for the course.

-uso.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395830 is a reply to message #395825] Tue, 16 June 2020 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spectrumdaddy is currently offline  spectrumdaddy
Messages: 191
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I am Rob <gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote:

> Thanks to Jeff and Glaeken we isolated that Usenet is an insecure
> piece of garbage that is unsecurely showing people's email address
> where at least Google hides peoples email addresses and you
> have to be a member to see it.

Others have already pointed out you should never use your real email
address to post to any group that ends up on Usenet.

If you insist on using Google to see Usenet groups, you are at the mercy
of what Google does with your email address. As it is easy to create new
email addresses with Google, just create one that you use solely to
access this group on Google, and that you do not ever add to your mail
client. That way, any spam that might be generated will go into space.

A message posted to Usenet is automatically migrated round the thousands
of Usenet servers, and all that a specific server can do, is decide not
to host one or more of the 12 thousand or more groups that make up
Usenet. Jeff has already descrtibed how many servers do not hold the
binary groups for one reason or another.

I assume you have never experienced how the legacy BBS's worked and were
run. Usenet is simply the culmination of the evolvement of the BBS from
the late 70's, that can be accessed from any Usenet sever, rather than
the single entry point of a traditional BBS. FaceBook, Twitter etc.,
just expanded on that idea...

Please do not attack the genuine users of this group, as there are many
"wise heads" here that only come here to help where they can, and we
would not want them to be forced out. Many of us have been here for more
than 20 years, and we do not wish the group to descend into the flame
wars of the past, wars which polluted this group and forced some of the
"wise heads" away.

Cheers - Ewen
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395831 is a reply to message #395825] Tue, 16 June 2020 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JoeyX

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 21:21:25 -0700, I am Rob wrote:

> Thanks to Jeff and Glaeken we isolated that Usenet is an insecure piece
> of garbage that is unsecurely showing people's email address where at
> least Google hides peoples email addresses and you have to be a member
> to see it.

This isn't true at all. My name is not Joey, and It'sJOEY!@yahoo.com is
not my email address. I am accessing Usenet through a server called
Frugal on a newsreader called Pan using an OS called Linux. Google is not
an intermediary for my access at all. ALL newsreaders allow the user to
put in whatever email address that they want, and it's perfectly secure--
my USP will not give out my info unless subpoenaed.

You access Usenet through Google's server, and this might be your
problem. Google likes to "synergize" your accounts, so if you have a Gmail
account, Google might associate that account with your activity on their
servers as you access Usenet. Check your settings or set up a sock puppet
on a throwaway account. Better yet, find a free Usenet provider like
https://www.eternal-september.org/, download a free newsreader like Pan
or Thunderbird, and take control and responsibility for your access to
this medium. You'll find it much more rewarding, and it'll help dissolve
this stubborn idea that you hold about Google having any sort of control
over who can access Usenet and how.


> There should be one more step for security though, that the email Has to
> be valid and a reply made to join a group.
> That way a spam post with an invalid return address wouldn’t be allowed
> to post.

Usenet does not work this way. Google might implement this, but that's on
them.

There is PLENTY written on how Usenet works-- As they say, Google is your
friend here.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395841 is a reply to message #395831] Tue, 16 June 2020 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Blakeney is currently offline  Jeff Blakeney
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Registered: September 2013
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On 2020-06-16 3:04 a.m., JoeyX wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 21:21:25 -0700, I am Rob wrote:
>
>> Thanks to Jeff and Glaeken we isolated that Usenet is an insecure piece
>> of garbage that is unsecurely showing people's email address where at
>> least Google hides peoples email addresses and you have to be a member
>> to see it.
>
> This isn't true at all.


I think he was suggesting a way that Usenet could be changed. Usenet
isn't going to change and there is no way to check the validity of an
e-mail address other than to e-mail a random code to that e-mail address
and have the user enter that code into a web site or something.
However, the servers would still need to be rewritten to make sure the
from address is the one from the account posting.

Personally, if Usenet were to require me to use a real address, it would
either be a new address I would create specifically for this and which I
would never read or I would simply stop using Usenet.

I don't post real e-mail addresses, without obfuscating them somehow, on
any public platform on the internet.
Re: Regarding the Posts that don't belong on this forum [message #395844 is a reply to message #395606] Tue, 16 June 2020 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Tempest is currently offline  Tempest
Messages: 529
Registered: November 2012
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I'm still amazed that the Apple II group is still active here. Most computer based groups have either moved to private forums or Facebook. This is the only Usenet group I still frequent as the rest have all pretty much disbanded.
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