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Superb Colour Composite Out? [message #392716] Sat, 04 April 2020 15:38 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Steve Mynott

I've a Apple //e Enhanced 128K which I just dusted off to play Lode
Runner. I'm putting this into an old LCD flat panel 4:3 15" DVD player
which has a large number of video inputs via composite.

Now the odd thing is the quality of video is superb -- compared with
other my other 8 and 16-bits micros which go through SCART and have
mods.

Text modes look really sharp and colours are bright and glowing. Games
look so much better than emulation. I did some googling and people
don't seem to generally like Apple composite so I'm puzzled to why it
looks so good.

Is the composite out on the Apple //e Enhanced improved over earlier
ones or have I just lucked out with this combination of hardware? Is it
likely to be using one of the newer double graphics modes?

--
steve (dot) mynott (at) gmail (dot) com
Re: Superb Colour Composite Out? [message #392717 is a reply to message #392716] Sat, 04 April 2020 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020, Steve Mynott wrote:

> I've a Apple //e Enhanced 128K which I just dusted off to play Lode
> Runner. I'm putting this into an old LCD flat panel 4:3 15" DVD player
> which has a large number of video inputs via composite.

<snip>

> Is the composite out on the Apple //e Enhanced improved over earlier
> ones or have I just lucked out with this combination of hardware? Is it
> likely to be using one of the newer double graphics modes?

Lode Runner uses the standard HGR (280x192) mode.

-uso.
Re: Superb Colour Composite Out? [message #392742 is a reply to message #392716] Sun, 05 April 2020 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Frank M.

Your LCD monitor is probably cleaning up the video a bit before displaying it.
f
Re: Superb Colour Composite Out? [message #392759 is a reply to message #392716] Sun, 05 April 2020 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Doug Dingus

On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:38:45 PM UTC-7, Steve Mynott wrote:
(snip)
>
> Text modes look really sharp and colours are bright and glowing. Games
> look so much better than emulation. I did some googling and people
> don't seem to generally like Apple composite so I'm puzzled to why it
> looks so good.

In my experience, really good analog displays, such as a PVM, perform well on an Apple video signal. I use a PVM with my //e, and it's fantastic.

Many consumer grade analog devices vary. The Apple signal isn't really to spec, and depending on their filters, and other characteristics, Apple composite video may show significant artifacts.

Digital displays vary considerably. My HD Plasma performs pretty much on par with the analog PVM, which was a surprise. I've some other, cheaper LCD displays, and some are good, some are not so good. It's worth walking through the different processing modes and options. There can be a huge difference.

>
> Is the composite out on the Apple //e Enhanced improved over earlier
> ones or have I just lucked out with this combination of hardware? Is it
> likely to be using one of the newer double graphics modes?

I'm not sure that's true. When I had an older ][ series machine, my experiences were similar.

The games you mention aren't employing the other graphics modes. However, even if they did, the factors that determine image appeal are pretty much independent of which graphics mode is used, again in my experience.
Re: Superb Colour Composite Out? [message #392820 is a reply to message #392759] Mon, 06 April 2020 20:24 Go to previous message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Doug Dingus <doug.dingus@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 12:38:45 PM UTC-7, Steve Mynott wrote:
> (snip)
>>
>> Text modes look really sharp and colours are bright and glowing. Games
>> look so much better than emulation. I did some googling and people
>> don't seem to generally like Apple composite so I'm puzzled to why it
>> looks so good.
>
> In my experience, really good analog displays, such as a PVM, perform
> well on an Apple video signal. I use a PVM with my //e, and it's fantastic.
>
> Many consumer grade analog devices vary. The Apple signal isn't really
> to spec, and depending on their filters, and other characteristics, Apple
> composite video may show significant artifacts.
>
> Digital displays vary considerably. My HD Plasma performs pretty much on
> par with the analog PVM, which was a surprise. I've some other, cheaper
> LCD displays, and some are good, some are not so good. It's worth
> walking through the different processing modes and options. There can be
> a huge difference.
>
>>
>> Is the composite out on the Apple //e Enhanced improved over earlier
>> ones or have I just lucked out with this combination of hardware? Is it
>> likely to be using one of the newer double graphics modes?
>
> I'm not sure that's true. When I had an older ][ series machine, my
> experiences were similar.
>
> The games you mention aren't employing the other graphics modes.
> However, even if they did, the factors that determine image appeal are
> pretty much independent of which graphics mode is used, again in my experience.
>
>
>
>

And always remember that the vast majority of 8-bit Apple ][ games were
designed specifically for the Apple composite video, where all color is
“artifact” color.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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