| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389968 is a reply to message #389691] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 08:56   |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 5 Jan 2020 10:20:19 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
The ones I used before LEDs had decent light with a selection of
colour temperatures and the 30W ones kicked out a lot of light, mostly I
used the 22W ones which were decent enough. I did have to hunt around for
decent ones though, there was an awful lot of crud on the market and the
suggested ones were ridiculously under-powered in order to push the energy
savings which were real but not as good as advertised.
LEDs are a vast improvement, I look forward to the next iteration.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
|
|
|
|
| Re: Light 'Bulbs' [message #389969 is a reply to message #389967] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 09:11 |
Andy Burns
Messages: 416
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
> I can't see why an oven light would need to be incandescent.
SMD components de-soldering themselves when you crank the oven up?
|
|
|
|
| Re: Light 'Bulbs' [message #389970 is a reply to message #389967] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 09:02 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:12:59 -0000 (UTC)
"Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
> I can't see why an oven light would need to be incandescent.
It has to operate in an unreasonably harsh environment for
something based on semiconductors held together with solder on a GRP
board and trying to dissipate some heat.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
|
|
|
|
| Re: Light 'Bulbs' [message #389971 is a reply to message #389970] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 09:40 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 14:02:12 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:12:59 -0000 (UTC)
> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
>
>> I can't see why an oven light would need to be incandescent.
>
> It has to operate in an unreasonably harsh environment for
> something based on semiconductors held together with solder on a GRP
> board and trying to dissipate some heat.
>
OK; thanks.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389972 is a reply to message #389691] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 10:21 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
> On 2020-01-05, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 1/3/2020 10:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 22:20:28 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>>>> > <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> >> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> >> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> >> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>> >
>>>> > Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
>>>> > years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>>>>
>>>> Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
>>>>
>>>> (home depot)
>>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
>>>
>>> So does Cree. And Philips has a number of lighting manufacturing
>>> facilities in the US.
>>>
>>>> I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
>>>> The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
>>>>
>>>> Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
>>>>
>>>> Lighting has improved dramatically.
>>>
>>> I would go so far as to say "amazingly". I really wish that the
>>> politicians hadn't tried to rush it though--CF was utter crap and I am
>>> very happy that it is dying the death.
>>>
>> I don't see why people are so down on CFLs
>
> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
We've already established that they _reduced_ mercury emissions.
Green light? Not in my experience.
Of course, if you are one of those RWNJs that has laid in a 100
year supply of incandescent lights, you have no choice but to
try to justify your paranoia.
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389973 is a reply to message #389691] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 10:25 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
> On 1/4/2020 3:43 PM, googlegroups jmfbahciv wrote:
>> I cannot use LEDs. They emit so much UV that my eyes hurt and
>> I get headaches; the pain is similar to looking directly at the
>> sun. There are no stores in this area which sells incandescent
>> bulbs.
>
> Are you sure it's UV that's your problem? Could it be flicker? I don't
> know, but it's possible LEDs flicker more (they don't have the thermal
> buffering vs. incandescents) but there are probably (maybe more
> expensive) LEDs that flicker less.
Geez, can't any of you recognize RWNJ paranoia for what it is?
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389975 is a reply to message #389963] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 10:36 |
|
|
Originally posted by: JimP
On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:02 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-5, Dave Garland wrote:
>>> On 1/3/2020 11:57 AM, googlegroups jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not going to address the other silliness, but...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>>
>>> Of course the US knows how to manufacture light bulbs. Incandescent,
>>> vapor discharge, fluorescent, and LED. Incandescents are mostly
>>> obsolete these days (inefficient and short lifetime), though. The
>>> issue is, we mostly don't make them, because it's cheaper to make them
>>> somewhere else.
>>
>> If you check, there are no more incandescent manufacturers in the US.
>> They shut down the plant and had a fire sale. My source was a news
>> report on "market watch".
>
> I could still buy them if I wanted them - Home Depot stocks them. I buy
> LEDs now for most things, but there are some specialized applications where
> you need incandescendents, for example oven lights or candelabra bulbs.
So does Wal-Mart and Lowes. A company in Mexico makes them. So
incandescents are still available.
--
Jim
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389976 is a reply to message #389966] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 10:39 |
|
|
Originally posted by: JimP
On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:05 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Jan 2020 12:49:02 -0500
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The question is not "is there a disparity", it is "are the poorest
>>> poor worse off than they were previously".
>>
>> Agreed that is the important question, and as far as I can make out
>> the poorest of the poor have been getting steadily better off for a long
>> time.
>>
>
> The poorest poor today live better than most royalty in the middle ages.
Hmm. Well, I doubt it. No servants, but the poor do have problems
making ends meet. The 'payday loan' places adore the poor and take
advantage of them.
--
Jim
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389977 is a reply to message #389962] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 10:52 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:00 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 12:46:22 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On Sat, 04 Jan 2020 09:07:18 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 22:20:28 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>>>> >>>>> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> >>>>>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> >>>>>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> >>>>>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
>>>> >>>>> years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> (home depot)
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So does Cree. And Philips has a number of lighting manufacturing
>>>> >>> facilities in the US.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
>>>> >>>> The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Lighting has improved dramatically.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I would go so far as to say "amazingly". I really wish that the
>>>> >>> politicians hadn't tried to rush it though--CF was utter crap and I am
>>>> >>> very happy that it is dying the death.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Disagree on at least 2 counts.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 1. CFLs lasted longer than the incandescents they replaced
>>>> >> and used less power.
>>>> >
>>>> > Which doesn't make them any less crap. As light sources they suck.
>>>> >
>>>> >> they were still a step up. I have CFLs in my driveway lamp.
>>>> >> The bulbs must be at least 15 years old now. Something I got nowhere
>>>> >> near with incandescents.
>>>> >
>>>> > Lucky you.
>>>> >
>>>> >> 2. "Politicians" had something to do with the rise of LEDs too.
>>>> >
>>>> > What specifically? There was no law requring LEDs, it was just a ban
>>>> > on incandescents.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, that's wrong.
>>>> There was never any law baning incandescent bulbs:
>>>>
>>>> In December 2007, the federal government enacted the Energy
>>>> Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA), which set maximum power
>>>> consumption requirements for all general-service light bulbs producing
>>>> 310–2600 lumens of light.
>>>>
>>>> > If the politicians had not banned incandescents we
>>>> > would not now be filling up landfills with mercury--when LEDs came
>>>> > along they would have started taking over the market as actually
>>>> > providing better illumination than incandescents.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, wrong.
>>>>
>>>> The government did a pretty good job of pushing lighting manufacturers
>>>> to come up with more efficient lighting. The first thing to come up
>>>> were CFLs. They reduced polution, including mercury pollution by
>>>> requiring less power to operate.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know how many wound up in landfills vs. being correctly
>>>> recycled, but there is a very small amount of mercury in a CFL and
>>>> I'd rather have the mercury in a landfill than in the air where it ends
>>>> up when you burn coal to make power.
>>>
>>> What is the correct way to recycle them? I gave up trying to do the right
>>> thing and just binned them. Fortunately I have no CFLs in the new place.
>>
>> In the town it is my misfortune to inhabit hazardous waste may be
>> turned in at a location whose address is not disclosed on two
>> Saturdays a year from 8 AM to noon.
>
> That’s about it. One time I took some stuff to the landfill, trying to do
> the right thing, only to be told “we don’t take that” for several things.
> They went into the dumpster after we left. Since we no longer can send our
> trash to China, the city of Phoenix has gotten very picky about how they
> handle recycling. Because of “contamination” our condo complex no longer
> accepts plastic or steel cans - only paper and aluminum cans - so as a
> result the amount of stuff we’re tossing in the trash has increased
> greatly.
>
> People are willing to do some work for recycling, but they shouldn’t have
> to jump thru hoops.
Exactly.
CT has now banned shopping bags because the recyclers won't take them.
IMO, Congress should commission NIST to develop a standard recycling
load that includes plastic bags, pizza boxes, and other items that
recyclers today are too cheap or lazy or incompetent to find a way to
deal with and require Federal certification of all recyclers of
municipal trash, while also establishing a moratorium on mandatory
recycling until there are at least two companies in business that can
process the standard load with no surcharge for any item in it.
>>>> So, specifically, the same law that created CFLs also created LED
>>>> lighting.
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389978 is a reply to message #389972] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 10:57 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:21:07 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2020-01-05, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>> On 1/3/2020 10:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 22:20:28 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>>>> >> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> >>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> >>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> >>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
>>>> >> years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>>>> >
>>>> > Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
>>>> >
>>>> > (home depot)
>>>> >
>>>> > http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
>>>>
>>>> So does Cree. And Philips has a number of lighting manufacturing
>>>> facilities in the US.
>>>>
>>>> > I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
>>>> > The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
>>>> >
>>>> > Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
>>>> >
>>>> > Lighting has improved dramatically.
>>>>
>>>> I would go so far as to say "amazingly". I really wish that the
>>>> politicians hadn't tried to rush it though--CF was utter crap and I am
>>>> very happy that it is dying the death.
>>>>
>>> I don't see why people are so down on CFLs
>>
>> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
>
> We've already established that they _reduced_ mercury emissions.
>
> Green light? Not in my experience.
>
> Of course, if you are one of those RWNJs that has laid in a 100
> year supply of incandescent lights, you have no choice but to
> try to justify your paranoia.
So anybody who doesn't agree with you is insane? This attitude is why
we are very likely to have 4 more years of He Whose Name Starts
Flamewars. Get over yourself.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389979 is a reply to message #389973] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 10:57 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:25:54 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
>
>> On 1/4/2020 3:43 PM, googlegroups jmfbahciv wrote:
>>> I cannot use LEDs. They emit so much UV that my eyes hurt and
>>> I get headaches; the pain is similar to looking directly at the
>>> sun. There are no stores in this area which sells incandescent
>>> bulbs.
>>
>> Are you sure it's UV that's your problem? Could it be flicker? I don't
>> know, but it's possible LEDs flicker more (they don't have the thermal
>> buffering vs. incandescents) but there are probably (maybe more
>> expensive) LEDs that flicker less.
>
> Geez, can't any of you recognize RWNJ paranoia for what it is?
Geez, can't you recognize that calling other people names is not
constructive?
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389980 is a reply to message #389979] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 10:59 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Melzzzzz
On 2020-01-05, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:25:54 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 1/4/2020 3:43 PM, googlegroups jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>> I cannot use LEDs. They emit so much UV that my eyes hurt and
>>>> I get headaches; the pain is similar to looking directly at the
>>>> sun. There are no stores in this area which sells incandescent
>>>> bulbs.
>>>
>>> Are you sure it's UV that's your problem? Could it be flicker? I don't
>>> know, but it's possible LEDs flicker more (they don't have the thermal
>>> buffering vs. incandescents) but there are probably (maybe more
>>> expensive) LEDs that flicker less.
>>
>> Geez, can't any of you recognize RWNJ paranoia for what it is?
>
> Geez, can't you recognize that calling other people names is not
> constructive?
Yeah calling people crazy is lame...
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
U ničemu ja ne uživam kao u svom statusu INVALIDA -- Zli Zec
Svi smo svedoci - oko 3 godine intenzivne propagande je dovoljno da jedan narod poludi -- Zli Zec
Na divljem zapadu i nije bilo tako puno nasilja, upravo zato jer su svi
bili naoruzani. -- Mladen Gogala
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389981 is a reply to message #389963] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:06 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:02 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-5, Dave Garland wrote:
>>> On 1/3/2020 11:57 AM, googlegroups jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not going to address the other silliness, but...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>>
>>> Of course the US knows how to manufacture light bulbs. Incandescent,
>>> vapor discharge, fluorescent, and LED. Incandescents are mostly
>>> obsolete these days (inefficient and short lifetime), though. The
>>> issue is, we mostly don't make them, because it's cheaper to make them
>>> somewhere else.
>>
>> If you check, there are no more incandescent manufacturers in the US.
>> They shut down the plant and had a fire sale. My source was a news
>> report on "market watch".
>
> I could still buy them if I wanted them - Home Depot stocks them. I buy
> LEDs now for most things, but there are some specialized applications where
> you need incandescendents, for example oven lights or candelabra bulbs.
Next time you go to Home Depot take a careful look at their candelabra
bulbs--the store near me has 35 different LED candelabra bulb
listings. Most of them are made to resemble bare-filament clear
incandescent bulbs and work on most dimmers. Or if you are willing to
sacrifice a bit of appearance to get an insane amount of control you
can get Philips Hue Color at Best Buy that is equivalent to about a 55
watt incandescent.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389982 is a reply to message #389978] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:23 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:21:07 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2020-01-05, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 1/3/2020 10:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> > On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 22:20:28 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>>>> >>> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> >>>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> >>>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> >>>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
>>>> >>> years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> (home depot)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
>>>> >
>>>> > So does Cree. And Philips has a number of lighting manufacturing
>>>> > facilities in the US.
>>>> >
>>>> >> I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
>>>> >> The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Lighting has improved dramatically.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would go so far as to say "amazingly". I really wish that the
>>>> > politicians hadn't tried to rush it though--CF was utter crap and I am
>>>> > very happy that it is dying the death.
>>>> >
>>>> I don't see why people are so down on CFLs
>>>
>>> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
>>
>> We've already established that they _reduced_ mercury emissions.
>>
>> Green light? Not in my experience.
>>
>> Of course, if you are one of those RWNJs that has laid in a 100
>> year supply of incandescent lights, you have no choice but to
>> try to justify your paranoia.
>
> So anybody who doesn't agree with you is insane? This attitude is why
> we are very likely to have 4 more years of He Whose Name Starts
> Flamewars. Get over yourself.
Appears I've hit too close to home.
Sorry, if you went out and bought a lifetime supply of incandescents because
the liberals were taking away your bulbs you may just be a RWNJ.
It doesn't necessarily cross the line to mental illness:
Paranoia: An unrealistic distrust of others or a feeling of being
persecuted. Extreme degrees may be a sign of mental illness.
So, I wouldn't call just stocking the bulbs, extreme.
On the other hand claiming that you're being blinded by UV...
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: whooshed, was: Office jobs eroding [message #389983 is a reply to message #389974] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:30 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
> In <qusv62$1hl$2@dont-email.me> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Geez, can't any of you recognize RWNJ paranoia for what it is?
>
> umm, Right Wingnuts of New Jersey?
So close.
Whoosh no more.
First hit on Google.
As for the term being fair, how would you describe a party that spent 6
years passing Obama Care repeals and then finally gained control of all
3 branches of government and couldn't pass the bill again?
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389984 is a reply to message #389979] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:32 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:25:54 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 1/4/2020 3:43 PM, googlegroups jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>> I cannot use LEDs. They emit so much UV that my eyes hurt and
>>>> I get headaches; the pain is similar to looking directly at the
>>>> sun. There are no stores in this area which sells incandescent
>>>> bulbs.
>>>
>>> Are you sure it's UV that's your problem? Could it be flicker? I don't
>>> know, but it's possible LEDs flicker more (they don't have the thermal
>>> buffering vs. incandescents) but there are probably (maybe more
>>> expensive) LEDs that flicker less.
>>
>> Geez, can't any of you recognize RWNJ paranoia for what it is?
>
> Geez, can't you recognize that calling other people names is not
> constructive?
Neither is explaining that LEDs don't emit UV.
Just ignore it.
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389985 is a reply to message #389982] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:33 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:23:29 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:21:07 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2020-01-05, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 1/3/2020 10:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 22:20:28 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>>>> >>>> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> >>>>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> >>>>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> >>>>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
>>>> >>>> years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> (home depot)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So does Cree. And Philips has a number of lighting manufacturing
>>>> >> facilities in the US.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
>>>> >>> The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Lighting has improved dramatically.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I would go so far as to say "amazingly". I really wish that the
>>>> >> politicians hadn't tried to rush it though--CF was utter crap and I am
>>>> >> very happy that it is dying the death.
>>>> >>
>>>> > I don't see why people are so down on CFLs
>>>>
>>>> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
>>>
>>> We've already established that they _reduced_ mercury emissions.
>>>
>>> Green light? Not in my experience.
>>>
>>> Of course, if you are one of those RWNJs that has laid in a 100
>>> year supply of incandescent lights, you have no choice but to
>>> try to justify your paranoia.
>>
>> So anybody who doesn't agree with you is insane? This attitude is why
>> we are very likely to have 4 more years of He Whose Name Starts
>> Flamewars. Get over yourself.
>
> Appears I've hit too close to home.
So you're just going to pour gas on the fire?
> Sorry, if you went out and bought a lifetime supply of incandescents because
> the liberals were taking away your bulbs you may just be a RWNJ.
Or someone who preferse incandescents to the alternatives.
> It doesn't necessarily cross the line to mental illness:
So one can be a "nut job" without being mentally ill? Do tell.
> Paranoia: An unrealistic distrust of others or a feeling of being
> persecuted. Extreme degrees may be a sign of mental illness.
You should talk to somebody about that.
> So, I wouldn't call just stocking the bulbs, extreme.
> On the other hand claiming that you're being blinded by UV...
We don't know what the real issue is. With LEDs it's unlikely to
actually be UV, but I think it would be better to make an effort to
find out what the real problem is than to simply be dismissive and
insulting.
Telling someone who claims that LEDs make their eyes hurt that they
are an "RWNJ" doesn't do anything to address the problem, but it does
convince them that you are more interested in your precious ideology
than in actually helping people.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389986 is a reply to message #389984] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:36 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:32:21 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:25:54 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 1/4/2020 3:43 PM, googlegroups jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>> > I cannot use LEDs. They emit so much UV that my eyes hurt and
>>>> > I get headaches; the pain is similar to looking directly at the
>>>> > sun. There are no stores in this area which sells incandescent
>>>> > bulbs.
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure it's UV that's your problem? Could it be flicker? I don't
>>>> know, but it's possible LEDs flicker more (they don't have the thermal
>>>> buffering vs. incandescents) but there are probably (maybe more
>>>> expensive) LEDs that flicker less.
>>>
>>> Geez, can't any of you recognize RWNJ paranoia for what it is?
>>
>> Geez, can't you recognize that calling other people names is not
>> constructive?
>
> Neither is explaining that LEDs don't emit UV.
> Just ignore it.
Determing that they don't emit UV is one step toward finding out what
the real problem is.
It may be that BAH is unwilling to work toward identifying the actual
cause of her issues with LEDs, but I would rather she state or
demonstrate that than hurl insults on general principle.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389987 is a reply to message #389977] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:36 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:00 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 12:46:22 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Sat, 04 Jan 2020 09:07:18 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 22:20:28 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>>>> >>>>>> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> >>>>>>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> >>>>>>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> >>>>>>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
>>>> >>>>>> years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> (home depot)
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> So does Cree. And Philips has a number of lighting manufacturing
>>>> >>>> facilities in the US.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
>>>> >>>>> The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Lighting has improved dramatically.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I would go so far as to say "amazingly". I really wish that the
>>>> >>>> politicians hadn't tried to rush it though--CF was utter crap and I am
>>>> >>>> very happy that it is dying the death.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Disagree on at least 2 counts.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> 1. CFLs lasted longer than the incandescents they replaced
>>>> >>> and used less power.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Which doesn't make them any less crap. As light sources they suck.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> they were still a step up. I have CFLs in my driveway lamp.
>>>> >>> The bulbs must be at least 15 years old now. Something I got nowhere
>>>> >>> near with incandescents.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Lucky you.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> 2. "Politicians" had something to do with the rise of LEDs too.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What specifically? There was no law requring LEDs, it was just a ban
>>>> >> on incandescents.
>>>> >
>>>> > Actually, that's wrong.
>>>> > There was never any law baning incandescent bulbs:
>>>> >
>>>> > In December 2007, the federal government enacted the Energy
>>>> > Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA), which set maximum power
>>>> > consumption requirements for all general-service light bulbs producing
>>>> > 310–2600 lumens of light.
>>>> >
>>>> >> If the politicians had not banned incandescents we
>>>> >> would not now be filling up landfills with mercury--when LEDs came
>>>> >> along they would have started taking over the market as actually
>>>> >> providing better illumination than incandescents.
>>>> >
>>>> > Sorry, wrong.
>>>> >
>>>> > The government did a pretty good job of pushing lighting manufacturers
>>>> > to come up with more efficient lighting. The first thing to come up
>>>> > were CFLs. They reduced polution, including mercury pollution by
>>>> > requiring less power to operate.
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't know how many wound up in landfills vs. being correctly
>>>> > recycled, but there is a very small amount of mercury in a CFL and
>>>> > I'd rather have the mercury in a landfill than in the air where it ends
>>>> > up when you burn coal to make power.
>>>>
>>>> What is the correct way to recycle them? I gave up trying to do the right
>>>> thing and just binned them. Fortunately I have no CFLs in the new place.
>>>
>>> In the town it is my misfortune to inhabit hazardous waste may be
>>> turned in at a location whose address is not disclosed on two
>>> Saturdays a year from 8 AM to noon.
>>
>> That’s about it. One time I took some stuff to the landfill, trying to do
>> the right thing, only to be told “we don’t take that” for several things.
>> They went into the dumpster after we left. Since we no longer can send our
>> trash to China, the city of Phoenix has gotten very picky about how they
>> handle recycling. Because of “contamination” our condo complex no longer
>> accepts plastic or steel cans - only paper and aluminum cans - so as a
>> result the amount of stuff we’re tossing in the trash has increased
>> greatly.
>>
>> People are willing to do some work for recycling, but they shouldn’t have
>> to jump thru hoops.
>
> Exactly.
>
> CT has now banned shopping bags because the recyclers won't take them.
>
> IMO, Congress should commission NIST to develop a standard recycling
> load that includes plastic bags, pizza boxes, and other items that
> recyclers today are too cheap or lazy or incompetent to find a way to
> deal with and require Federal certification of all recyclers of
> municipal trash, while also establishing a moratorium on mandatory
> recycling until there are at least two companies in business that can
> process the standard load with no surcharge for any item in it.
Hmm, my Stop and Shop takes back plastic bags.
Personally, I buy re-usable shopping bags.
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: whooshed, was: Office jobs eroding [message #389988 is a reply to message #389983] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:36 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:30:33 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
>
>> In <qusv62$1hl$2@dont-email.me> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Geez, can't any of you recognize RWNJ paranoia for what it is?
>>
>> umm, Right Wingnuts of New Jersey?
>
> So close.
> Whoosh no more.
> First hit on Google.
>
> As for the term being fair, how would you describe a party that spent 6
> years passing Obama Care repeals and then finally gained control of all
> 3 branches of government and couldn't pass the bill again?
Disorganized?
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389989 is a reply to message #389987] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:39 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:36:42 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:00 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 12:46:22 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Sat, 04 Jan 2020 09:07:18 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 22:20:28 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>>>> >>>>>>> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> >>>>>>>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> >>>>>>>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> >>>>>>>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
>>>> >>>>>>> years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> (home depot)
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> So does Cree. And Philips has a number of lighting manufacturing
>>>> >>>>> facilities in the US.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
>>>> >>>>>> The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Lighting has improved dramatically.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I would go so far as to say "amazingly". I really wish that the
>>>> >>>>> politicians hadn't tried to rush it though--CF was utter crap and I am
>>>> >>>>> very happy that it is dying the death.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Disagree on at least 2 counts.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> 1. CFLs lasted longer than the incandescents they replaced
>>>> >>>> and used less power.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Which doesn't make them any less crap. As light sources they suck.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> they were still a step up. I have CFLs in my driveway lamp.
>>>> >>>> The bulbs must be at least 15 years old now. Something I got nowhere
>>>> >>>> near with incandescents.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Lucky you.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> 2. "Politicians" had something to do with the rise of LEDs too.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> What specifically? There was no law requring LEDs, it was just a ban
>>>> >>> on incandescents.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Actually, that's wrong.
>>>> >> There was never any law baning incandescent bulbs:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In December 2007, the federal government enacted the Energy
>>>> >> Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA), which set maximum power
>>>> >> consumption requirements for all general-service light bulbs producing
>>>> >> 310–2600 lumens of light.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> If the politicians had not banned incandescents we
>>>> >>> would not now be filling up landfills with mercury--when LEDs came
>>>> >>> along they would have started taking over the market as actually
>>>> >>> providing better illumination than incandescents.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sorry, wrong.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The government did a pretty good job of pushing lighting manufacturers
>>>> >> to come up with more efficient lighting. The first thing to come up
>>>> >> were CFLs. They reduced polution, including mercury pollution by
>>>> >> requiring less power to operate.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't know how many wound up in landfills vs. being correctly
>>>> >> recycled, but there is a very small amount of mercury in a CFL and
>>>> >> I'd rather have the mercury in a landfill than in the air where it ends
>>>> >> up when you burn coal to make power.
>>>> >
>>>> > What is the correct way to recycle them? I gave up trying to do the right
>>>> > thing and just binned them. Fortunately I have no CFLs in the new place.
>>>>
>>>> In the town it is my misfortune to inhabit hazardous waste may be
>>>> turned in at a location whose address is not disclosed on two
>>>> Saturdays a year from 8 AM to noon.
>>>
>>> That’s about it. One time I took some stuff to the landfill, trying to do
>>> the right thing, only to be told “we don’t take that” for several things.
>>> They went into the dumpster after we left. Since we no longer can send our
>>> trash to China, the city of Phoenix has gotten very picky about how they
>>> handle recycling. Because of “contamination” our condo complex no longer
>>> accepts plastic or steel cans - only paper and aluminum cans - so as a
>>> result the amount of stuff we’re tossing in the trash has increased
>>> greatly.
>>>
>>> People are willing to do some work for recycling, but they shouldn’t have
>>> to jump thru hoops.
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> CT has now banned shopping bags because the recyclers won't take them.
>>
>> IMO, Congress should commission NIST to develop a standard recycling
>> load that includes plastic bags, pizza boxes, and other items that
>> recyclers today are too cheap or lazy or incompetent to find a way to
>> deal with and require Federal certification of all recyclers of
>> municipal trash, while also establishing a moratorium on mandatory
>> recycling until there are at least two companies in business that can
>> process the standard load with no surcharge for any item in it.
>
> Hmm, my Stop and Shop takes back plastic bags.
Why should I have to take plastic bags to Stop and Shop when there is
a government-mandated recycling bin at home?
> Personally, I buy re-usable shopping bags.
Well touch you.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389990 is a reply to message #389691] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:46 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
> Are you sure it's UV that's your problem? Could it be flicker? I don't
> know, but it's possible LEDs flicker more (they don't have the thermal
> buffering vs. incandescents) but there are probably (maybe more
> expensive) LEDs that flicker less.
LED bulb flickering can be traced in almost every instance to a
non-compatible dimmer switch in the lighting circuit. ... LED bulbs
don't have glowing filaments. When the dimmer switch goes off and on
many times per second, the LED bulb becomes a flickering strobe light.
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389991 is a reply to message #389990] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 11:52 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:46:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
>
>> Are you sure it's UV that's your problem? Could it be flicker? I don't
>> know, but it's possible LEDs flicker more (they don't have the thermal
>> buffering vs. incandescents) but there are probably (maybe more
>> expensive) LEDs that flicker less.
>
> LED bulb flickering can be traced in almost every instance to a
> non-compatible dimmer switch in the lighting circuit. ... LED bulbs
> don't have glowing filaments. When the dimmer switch goes off and on
> many times per second, the LED bulb becomes a flickering strobe light.
In that case it should be flickering at 60 cycles with no dimmer. If
there is filtering adequate to take out the 60 cycle flicker, it
should also take out any higher frequencies.
CFs need "compatible dimmers". Dimmable LEDs are allegedly designed
to work on just about any dimmer that works with incandescents.
|
|
|
|
| LEDs, was: Office jobs eroding [message #389992 is a reply to message #389991] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 12:03 |
danny burstein
Messages: 78
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
In <us441flk2gq2gdqb7o7irfs4m5dm4v7641@4ax.com> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>> LED bulb flickering can be traced in almost every instance to a
>> non-compatible dimmer switch in the lighting circuit. ... LED bulbs
>> don't have glowing filaments. When the dimmer switch goes off and on
>> many times per second, the LED bulb becomes a flickering strobe light.
> In that case it should be flickering at 60 cycles with no dimmer. If
> there is filtering adequate to take out the 60 cycle flicker, it
> should also take out any higher frequencies.
Might be... 120 cycles as it would presumably light up on
both peaks ("up" and "down", so to speak) of the sine wave...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389993 is a reply to message #389966] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 13:33 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:05 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The poorest poor today live better than most royalty in the middle ages.
The poorest in America (or "the western world") perhaps, in some
ways (as long as you ignore the homeless) but the poorest in the world today
are starving and I doubt royalty ever did.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
|
|
|
|
| Re: Light 'Bulbs' [message #389994 is a reply to message #389967] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 15:08 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
> On 2020-01-05, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
>
>> I can't see why an oven light would need to be incandescent.
>
> Because the electronics required to run an LED would survive about
> 3 minutes at oven temps.
The only LED I've scrutinized was behaving erratically so I sawed it
open with an abrasive wheel. The bulb itself was plastic. I'd expect
it to shrivel, sag, emit toxic fumes, burst into flame or all of those
in an oven. BTW, the dismantled unit could still light up. The LED
light not filtered by the milky plastic "bulb" is incredibly intense
and garish.
I'm lighting my studio/shop/atelier with 300W incandescents. I'm
gonna be really annoyed when I run out and have to figure out an
alternative. Using incandescent-look-alike halogens in the house as I
only have a coupleof dozen 100W incandescents left.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
|
|
|
|
| Re: Light 'Bulbs' [message #389995 is a reply to message #389994] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 15:42 |
John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In article <87blrh7jke.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>,
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> I'm lighting my studio/shop/atelier with 300W incandescents. I'm
> gonna be really annoyed when I run out and have to figure out an
> alternative.
300W incandescents put out 3500 to 5500 lumens depending on the type
of bulb. Poking around online it's not hard to find LED bulbs in the
4000-5000 lumen range. If you're used to incandescents you'd probably
prefer the warmer looking 3000K rather than the usual 500K but they're
not much harder to find. Most of them screw into the same socket as
the incandescent they replace.
They cost a lot more than incandescents but since they last for
decades and use 1/10 the power I expect they'll pay for themselves
soon enough.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389996 is a reply to message #389976] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 16:16 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:05 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 04 Jan 2020 12:49:02 -0500
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The question is not "is there a disparity", it is "are the poorest
>>>> poor worse off than they were previously".
>>>
>>> Agreed that is the important question, and as far as I can make out
>>> the poorest of the poor have been getting steadily better off for a long
>>> time.
>>>
>>
>> The poorest poor today live better than most royalty in the middle ages.
>
> Hmm. Well, I doubt it. No servants, but the poor do have problems
> making ends meet. The 'payday loan' places adore the poor and take
> advantage of them.
>
They usually have indoor plumbing, access to out-of-season fruits and
vegetables, probably better medical care than the best of the middle ages
where the “treatments” the doctors prescribed killed the patients as often
as they cured, electricity, TV where medieval royalty only had an
occasional singer...
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389997 is a reply to message #389981] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 16:16 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 06:05:02 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-5, Dave Garland wrote:
>>>> On 1/3/2020 11:57 AM, googlegroups jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not going to address the other silliness, but...
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>>> > The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>>> > should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>>> > a national security risk at the highest level.
>>>> >
>>>> Of course the US knows how to manufacture light bulbs. Incandescent,
>>>> vapor discharge, fluorescent, and LED. Incandescents are mostly
>>>> obsolete these days (inefficient and short lifetime), though. The
>>>> issue is, we mostly don't make them, because it's cheaper to make them
>>>> somewhere else.
>>>
>>> If you check, there are no more incandescent manufacturers in the US.
>>> They shut down the plant and had a fire sale. My source was a news
>>> report on "market watch".
>>
>> I could still buy them if I wanted them - Home Depot stocks them. I buy
>> LEDs now for most things, but there are some specialized applications where
>> you need incandescendents, for example oven lights or candelabra bulbs.
>
> Next time you go to Home Depot take a careful look at their candelabra
> bulbs--the store near me has 35 different LED candelabra bulb
> listings. Most of them are made to resemble bare-filament clear
> incandescent bulbs and work on most dimmers. Or if you are willing to
> sacrifice a bit of appearance to get an insane amount of control you
> can get Philips Hue Color at Best Buy that is equivalent to about a 55
> watt incandescent.
>
Thanks, I’ll take a look. The state of the art here is changing faster than
I can keep up with it.
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
| Re: whooshed, was: Office jobs eroding [message #389998 is a reply to message #389988] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 16:16 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:30:33 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
>>
>>> In <qusv62$1hl$2@dont-email.me> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Geez, can't any of you recognize RWNJ paranoia for what it is?
>>>
>>> umm, Right Wingnuts of New Jersey?
>>
>> So close.
>> Whoosh no more.
>> First hit on Google.
>>
>> As for the term being fair, how would you describe a party that spent 6
>> years passing Obama Care repeals and then finally gained control of all
>> 3 branches of government and couldn't pass the bill again?
>
> Disorganized?
>
Idiots, maybe. I had two complaints about Obamacare, aside from the way it
was forced thru in the middle of the night New Year’s Eve: 1) No one should
be *forced* to buy insurance (or pay a penalty) 2) The government should
not be able to dictate what insurance has to cover. For example, we’re
unlikely to need maternity coverage and shouldn’t have to pay for it.
People,should be able to buy the coverage the6 think they need.
The argument was made that the system had to include these things or it
would collapse - boo hoo. If you can’t design a system that still preserves
individual freedom, it deserves to collapse. Hopefully upcoming court
decisions will solve these problems.
Personally, If I were starting from where we were before I would have taken
a more incremental approach, perhaps starting with only coverage for
pre-existing conditions and letting young adults stay on their parents’
policy until age 26. The last should be a net plus for the insurance
companies, since those are the people who are the healthiest.
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389999 is a reply to message #389966] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 16:38 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Jan 2020 12:49:02 -0500
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The question is not "is there a disparity", it is "are the poorest
>>> poor worse off than they were previously".
>>
>> Agreed that is the important question, and as far as I can make out
>> the poorest of the poor have been getting steadily better off for a long
>> time.
>>
>
> The poorest poor today live better than most royalty in the middle ages.
Tell that to the half millon american homeless people, families and children
sleeping on the street.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Light 'Bulbs' [message #390000 is a reply to message #389994] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 16:42 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2020-01-05, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I can't see why an oven light would need to be incandescent.
>>
>> Because the electronics required to run an LED would survive about
>> 3 minutes at oven temps.
>
> The only LED I've scrutinized was behaving erratically so I sawed it
> open with an abrasive wheel. The bulb itself was plastic. I'd expect
> it to shrivel, sag, emit toxic fumes, burst into flame or all of those
> in an oven. BTW, the dismantled unit could still light up. The LED
> light not filtered by the milky plastic "bulb" is incredibly intense
> and garish.
>
> I'm lighting my studio/shop/atelier with 300W incandescents. I'm
> gonna be really annoyed when I run out and have to figure out an
> alternative. Using incandescent-look-alike halogens in the house as I
> only have a coupleof dozen 100W incandescents left.
I illuminate my shop with F96T12 C50's. 8 of them. 5000k color
temperature is best for color matching wood and finishes.
The new shop will likely have LED versions of the same (nine 8-foot duals
on three circuits) color temperature.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #390001 is a reply to message #389968] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 18:19 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 2020-01-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 5 Jan 2020 10:20:19 GMT
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
>
> The ones I used before LEDs had decent light with a selection of
> colour temperatures and the 30W ones kicked out a lot of light, mostly I
> used the 22W ones which were decent enough. I did have to hunt around for
> decent ones though, there was an awful lot of crud on the market and the
> suggested ones were ridiculously under-powered in order to push the energy
> savings which were real but not as good as advertised.
We tried a couple of CFLs when they first came out. We hate the light;
it's a sickly colour which we find totally unfit for indoor use. We have
a couple of CFLs left in outside fixtures where the colour doesn't matter
much, and when they die we'll replace them with something else (probably LED).
> LEDs are a vast improvement, I look forward to the next iteration.
It seems to be an ongoing evolution. Every couple of years they seem
to be able to handle dimmers better.
When we remodeled back around 2007, we put in pot lights everywhere.
Originally they had 50-watt halogen PAR20s, which run so hot that
sometimes the bases unsolder themselves. We have over 20 in the
kitchen / dining room area, which meant that we were pulling over
a kilowatt with them all on. But the light is wonderful.
Over the past few years we've been phasing in LEDs - the price
is falling on drop-in replacements for the PAR20 halogens, and
a 3000K model puts out light that's acceptably close in quality
to halogens. We've been slower to replace the dimmed ones, though -
even though the newest ones don't flicker when dimmed, most of
them won't dim all the way down, and unlike halogens the colour
temperature remains the same when dimmed, which looks unnatural
(and is quite a mismatch next to a halogen). Still, though,
knocking that kilowatt down to 150 watts reflects nicely on
our electric bill.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #390002 is a reply to message #389691] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 18:19 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 2020-01-05, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 1/4/2020 1:46 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just read an interesting statistic:
>>>
>>> As of 2010, 388 individuals possessed as much household wealth as the
>>> lower half of the world's population combined. Today, Oxfam estimates
>>> that number as 26.
>>
>> So 362 families got poorer
>
> No, 26 families got the wealth that the next wealthiest 362 families
> formerly had.
Plus, probably, some of the wealth that the lower half of the world's
population formerly had.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #390003 is a reply to message #390001] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 18:32 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 5 Jan 2020 23:19:04 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2020-01-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5 Jan 2020 10:20:19 GMT
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
>>
>> The ones I used before LEDs had decent light with a selection of
>> colour temperatures and the 30W ones kicked out a lot of light, mostly I
>> used the 22W ones which were decent enough. I did have to hunt around for
>> decent ones though, there was an awful lot of crud on the market and the
>> suggested ones were ridiculously under-powered in order to push the energy
>> savings which were real but not as good as advertised.
>
> We tried a couple of CFLs when they first came out. We hate the light;
> it's a sickly colour which we find totally unfit for indoor use. We have
> a couple of CFLs left in outside fixtures where the colour doesn't matter
> much, and when they die we'll replace them with something else (probably LED).
>
>> LEDs are a vast improvement, I look forward to the next iteration.
>
> It seems to be an ongoing evolution. Every couple of years they seem
> to be able to handle dimmers better.
>
> When we remodeled back around 2007, we put in pot lights everywhere.
> Originally they had 50-watt halogen PAR20s, which run so hot that
> sometimes the bases unsolder themselves. We have over 20 in the
> kitchen / dining room area, which meant that we were pulling over
> a kilowatt with them all on. But the light is wonderful.
>
> Over the past few years we've been phasing in LEDs - the price
> is falling on drop-in replacements for the PAR20 halogens, and
> a 3000K model puts out light that's acceptably close in quality
> to halogens. We've been slower to replace the dimmed ones, though -
> even though the newest ones don't flicker when dimmed, most of
> them won't dim all the way down, and unlike halogens the colour
> temperature remains the same when dimmed, which looks unnatural
> (and is quite a mismatch next to a halogen). Still, though,
> knocking that kilowatt down to 150 watts reflects nicely on
> our electric bill.
FWIW, I have some Philips clear globe bulbs that change color
temperature as they dim-they don't exactly match the incandescents in
the same fixture but they're close enough. They don't go all the way
down though--at first I was annoyed but where they're located it's
nice to have a night light.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Light 'Bulbs' [message #390004 is a reply to message #390000] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 18:44 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2020-01-05, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can't see why an oven light would need to be incandescent.
>>>
>>> Because the electronics required to run an LED would survive about
>>> 3 minutes at oven temps.
>>
>> The only LED I've scrutinized was behaving erratically so I sawed it
>> open with an abrasive wheel. The bulb itself was plastic. I'd expect
>> it to shrivel, sag, emit toxic fumes, burst into flame or all of those
>> in an oven. BTW, the dismantled unit could still light up. The LED
>> light not filtered by the milky plastic "bulb" is incredibly intense
>> and garish.
>>
>> I'm lighting my studio/shop/atelier with 300W incandescents. I'm
>> gonna be really annoyed when I run out and have to figure out an
>> alternative. Using incandescent-look-alike halogens in the house as I
>> only have a coupleof dozen 100W incandescents left.
>
> I illuminate my shop with F96T12 C50's. 8 of them. 5000k color
> temperature is best for color matching wood and finishes.
>
> The new shop will likely have LED versions of the same (nine 8-foot duals
> on three circuits) color temperature.
I have a plant light stand where I grow African Violets.
It uses 4 T40 tubes.
I changed it from florescent to LED and I love the color temp.
The plants aren't complaining either.
Florescents were a pain in the butt.
I was happy to remove the ballasts and chuck them.
This was many years ago.
The LEDs are still as bright as they were the first day.
If this was still florescent I'd have to have changed
the bulbs at least once by now.
I'm just thinking, these LED lights might outlive me...
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #390005 is a reply to message #390001] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 18:55 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
> On 2020-01-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On 5 Jan 2020 10:20:19 GMT
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
>>
>> The ones I used before LEDs had decent light with a selection of
>> colour temperatures and the 30W ones kicked out a lot of light, mostly I
>> used the 22W ones which were decent enough. I did have to hunt around for
>> decent ones though, there was an awful lot of crud on the market and the
>> suggested ones were ridiculously under-powered in order to push the energy
>> savings which were real but not as good as advertised.
>
> We tried a couple of CFLs when they first came out. We hate the light;
> it's a sickly colour which we find totally unfit for indoor use. We have
> a couple of CFLs left in outside fixtures where the colour doesn't matter
> much, and when they die we'll replace them with something else (probably LED).
>
>> LEDs are a vast improvement, I look forward to the next iteration.
>
> It seems to be an ongoing evolution. Every couple of years they seem
> to be able to handle dimmers better.
>
> When we remodeled back around 2007, we put in pot lights everywhere.
> Originally they had 50-watt halogen PAR20s, which run so hot that
> sometimes the bases unsolder themselves. We have over 20 in the
> kitchen / dining room area, which meant that we were pulling over
> a kilowatt with them all on. But the light is wonderful.
>
> Over the past few years we've been phasing in LEDs - the price
> is falling on drop-in replacements for the PAR20 halogens, and
> a 3000K model puts out light that's acceptably close in quality
> to halogens. We've been slower to replace the dimmed ones, though -
> even though the newest ones don't flicker when dimmed, most of
> them won't dim all the way down, and unlike halogens the colour
> temperature remains the same when dimmed, which looks unnatural
> (and is quite a mismatch next to a halogen). Still, though,
> knocking that kilowatt down to 150 watts reflects nicely on
> our electric bill.
I just replaced kitchen ceiling can LED bulbs with LED cans.
The old LED bulbs dimmed all the way down with a non-LED dimmer.
The new cans didn't dim at all with the non-LED dimmer.
I replaced the dimmer with an LED dimmer and
the lights dim well again.
These same lights offered a color temperature choice.
I found the LED version of "incandescent" unappealing.
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #390006 is a reply to message #390003] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 21:08 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On 5 Jan 2020 23:19:04 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-01-05, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5 Jan 2020 10:20:19 GMT
>>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Depends if you like dim green light and mercury, I guess.
>>>
>>> The ones I used before LEDs had decent light with a selection of
>>> colour temperatures and the 30W ones kicked out a lot of light, mostly I
>>> used the 22W ones which were decent enough. I did have to hunt around for
>>> decent ones though, there was an awful lot of crud on the market and the
>>> suggested ones were ridiculously under-powered in order to push the energy
>>> savings which were real but not as good as advertised.
>>
>> We tried a couple of CFLs when they first came out. We hate the light;
>> it's a sickly colour which we find totally unfit for indoor use. We have
>> a couple of CFLs left in outside fixtures where the colour doesn't matter
>> much, and when they die we'll replace them with something else (probably LED).
>>
>>> LEDs are a vast improvement, I look forward to the next iteration.
>>
>> It seems to be an ongoing evolution. Every couple of years they seem
>> to be able to handle dimmers better.
>>
>> When we remodeled back around 2007, we put in pot lights everywhere.
>> Originally they had 50-watt halogen PAR20s, which run so hot that
>> sometimes the bases unsolder themselves. We have over 20 in the
>> kitchen / dining room area, which meant that we were pulling over
>> a kilowatt with them all on. But the light is wonderful.
>>
>> Over the past few years we've been phasing in LEDs - the price
>> is falling on drop-in replacements for the PAR20 halogens, and
>> a 3000K model puts out light that's acceptably close in quality
>> to halogens. We've been slower to replace the dimmed ones, though -
>> even though the newest ones don't flicker when dimmed, most of
>> them won't dim all the way down, and unlike halogens the colour
>> temperature remains the same when dimmed, which looks unnatural
>> (and is quite a mismatch next to a halogen). Still, though,
>> knocking that kilowatt down to 150 watts reflects nicely on
>> our electric bill.
>
> FWIW, I have some Philips clear globe bulbs that change color
> temperature as they dim-they don't exactly match the incandescents in
> the same fixture but they're close enough. They don't go all the way
> down though--at first I was annoyed but where they're located it's
> nice to have a night light.
For a while I had LED bulbs and incandescents on the same dimmer.
The LED bulbs would not dim all the way down but the incandescents
would. After replacing all the incandescents, the dimmer got the
lights down to night-light level.
If you have any dimmer issues, the first thing to do is get
a dimmer meant for LEDs if you don't already have one.
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
|
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
