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Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388696 is a reply to message #388650] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
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Registered: December 2011
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:39:36 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>> So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to a
>> subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to ask if I
>> can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted to see the
>> book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it invalid!
>
> Sounds like that would be illegal - destruction of a government or some
> such.

They destroyed the balance book which is their property, not my passport.
--
Andreas
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388697 is a reply to message #388688] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 10:13:55 AM UTC-7, Scott wrote:

> Am I alone in thinking that both the US and UK conventions are
> *wrong*? "Gas" is a phase of matter, and "petrol[eum]" covers a *lot*
> of ground. My backyard grill runs on a petrol[eum] gas called propane.
> My car uses liquid fuel, not gas; my truck uses a liquid fuel that
> nobody calls gas but I buy it at a gas station. Just...why?

Why?

Well, if I made up a name on my own for that orangey-yellow stuff one puts in a
car to make it go, other people wouldn't know what I was talking about.

So people used whatever name was used by the companies that sold the stuff -
petroleum or gasoline, as the case might be. But then they shortened those names
to "petrol" or "gas", respectively, so it wouldn't be as much of a mouthful.

That there are other related liquids that come from rocks, and that gasoline,
despite its high vapor pressure, is a liquid... was neither here nor there.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388698 is a reply to message #388696] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:04:30 AM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> They destroyed the balance book which is their property, not my passport.

While there might be a plausible motive for that: i.e., if they suspected an
attempt to fraudulently access your account... the idea of just taking the money
you have deposited with them and keeping it by destroying all record of your
association with it is _also_ a theft of your property.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388699 is a reply to message #388656] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 17:54:28 -0600, JimP wrote:
>
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 14:01:26 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>> [...] They wanted to see the book. Took scissors to cut it in half,
>> making it invalid! [...]

>
> Ow. I would be tempted to say something like 'do you feel okay ?' to
> anyone cutting up one of my official documents. Or asking them if they
> needed their diapers changed. I would likely have been slightly rude,
> but hopefully not enough to get arrested. Or maybe I would have been
> very rude. While smiling at them.

Why is everybody reading "destroying a passport"? They destroyed the
balance book, which was theirs. I just quoted the two sentences on
top. Hope it's clear now.
--
Andreas
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388701 is a reply to message #388689] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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Registered: January 2012
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nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Always thought a sidecar was just plain nuts.
>> It just contradicts the whole motorcycle experience.
>>
>> On a recent trip up to Maine I talked to a few guys on Honda Gold Wings.
>> While the sheer mass of those bikes is impressive, I really don't see
>> it. When I bought my Triumph, 500ccs was all I was willing to go.
>> That's all the power I wanted. Long trips on the highways didn't bother
>> me at all, and I could still take off through the woods without sinking
>> into the mud. If I ever get tempted again, 250-350 is probably what
>> I'll go for.
>
> For all of their impressive bulk, the Gold Wing design team included
> people with experience in motorcycle racing, and it shows. GWs are
> stunningly agile. When I still rode, I would not have said no to one
> if it was in my budget. I was pretty happy with my 900cc bike, though;
> plenty enough for all conditions, but not so much as to get you into
> trouble faster than you can get out of it. I previously had a 450 that
> was adequate on the street, but suicidally anemic on the highway.

450 anemic? I could reach scary speeds in seconds on my Daytona.

I'm sure those GWs can really haul but getting it upright if it ever
fell over would be a challenge. Of course I'm not the biggest guy and I
saw some huge bikers on those things. One of them had to be pushing 600
lbs. What a sight.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388703 is a reply to message #388688] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Scott <nobody@example.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:37:58 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11 Nov 2019 12:15:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2019-11-11, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-11-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> > On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> >> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> >> screen is a PITA.
>>>> >
>>>> > Why would you plan a route in the first place?
>>>>
>>>> Because, contrary to what most here believe, SatNavs are very far from
>>>> infallible.
>>>
>>> Indeed, on Saturday I pulled out of a petrol (US: filling) station [...]
>> ^^^^^^^
>> Gas(oline). ;-)
>
> Am I alone in thinking that both the US and UK conventions are
> *wrong*? "Gas" is a phase of matter, and "petrol[eum]" covers a *lot*
> of ground. My backyard grill runs on a petrol[eum] gas called propane.
> My car uses liquid fuel, not gas; my truck uses a liquid fuel that
> nobody calls gas but I buy it at a gas station. Just...why?
>
>

Your car uses “gasoline”, so “gas”

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388704 is a reply to message #388699] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:13:53 AM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> Why is everybody reading "destroying a passport"? They destroyed the
> balance book, which was theirs. I just quoted the two sentences on
> top. Hope it's clear now.

Because a passport usually also consists of pages between covers, and thus has the
form of a book, and it was the only object previously named. The noun phrase "the
book" was sufficiently nonspecific that it was treated as if it were a pronoun,
requring a previous referent.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388705 is a reply to message #388699] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:13:53 AM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> Why is everybody reading "destroying a passport"? They destroyed the
> balance book, which was theirs. I just quoted the two sentences on
> top. Hope it's clear now.

Here is the passage in question:

> In 1985 I was on holiday in Spain. Back then I had a book from my back
> where they print your balance and stuff plus for the "two way
> authentication" ;-) a card made of cardboard. Almost out of money I was
> on the way to the a bank there to get some cash. But I lost this card
> (and we had no other means of paying, how silly we were in our late
> teens). First the bank refused but after a long discussion and showing my
> passport instead of the paper card they gave us some cache.

> So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to a
> subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to ask if I
> can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted to see the
> book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it invalid!

Now I see that you _did_ mention the balance book. But in the *preceding
paragraph*. So when "the book", a non-specific noun phrase, was being associated
with a referent, your passport fell within the window, while your balance book
was too far back to be included in language processing.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388706 is a reply to message #388705] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 11:30:22 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:

> Now I see that you _did_ mention the balance book. But in the *preceding
> paragraph*. So when "the book", a non-specific noun phrase, was being associated
> with a referent, your passport fell within the window, while your balance book
> was too far back to be included in language processing.

Basically, because in English, one does not put the verb at the end of a sentence,
we English speakers have become lazy, and are careless in our reading habits.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388707 is a reply to message #388503] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 18:09:18 GMT, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
wrote:

> On 12 Nov 2019 14:55:47 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>> On 2019-11-12, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:39:36 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to
>>>> > a subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to
>>>> > ask if I can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted
>>>> > to see the book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it
>>>> > invalid!
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like that would be illegal - destruction of a government or
>>>> some such.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I'm misreading but I think it was the bank book they
>>> destroyed which would be bank property. Destroying someones passport
>>> would almost certainly be illegal, if someone did that to mine my
>>> next stop would be the nearest embassy.
>>>
>>
>> Educational trip, go from Switzerland to Italy by train
>
> Care to elaborate?
>
> Did that with a car once. Was scary already. While Swiss drive
> "normal" like most others, Italians are crazy. On a road with one lane
> per direction which also had emergency lanes for both directions and
> you are too slow you are (apparently; everybody did) supposed to
> change to the emergency lane. If you don't do it they honk like crazy.

From my one week's statistical observation; that's the lane for those
who've downed a bottle of wine earlier that day.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388708 is a reply to message #388696] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 13:04:28 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:39:36 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to a
>>> subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to ask if I
>>> can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted to see the
>>> book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it invalid!
>>
>> Sounds like that would be illegal - destruction of a government or some
>> such.
>
> They destroyed the balance book which is their property, not my passport.

Ah, but it would seem to me that since it had my info on it, it was
mine. The one bank I had one of those, they told me it was mine. The
blank ones were theirs, until they handed it to a customer.


--
Jim
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388709 is a reply to message #388701] Tue, 12 November 2019 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 13:21:30 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Always thought a sidecar was just plain nuts.
>>> It just contradicts the whole motorcycle experience.
>>>
>>> On a recent trip up to Maine I talked to a few guys on Honda Gold Wings.
>>> While the sheer mass of those bikes is impressive, I really don't see
>>> it. When I bought my Triumph, 500ccs was all I was willing to go.
>>> That's all the power I wanted. Long trips on the highways didn't bother
>>> me at all, and I could still take off through the woods without sinking
>>> into the mud. If I ever get tempted again, 250-350 is probably what
>>> I'll go for.
>>
>> For all of their impressive bulk, the Gold Wing design team included
>> people with experience in motorcycle racing, and it shows. GWs are
>> stunningly agile. When I still rode, I would not have said no to one
>> if it was in my budget. I was pretty happy with my 900cc bike, though;
>> plenty enough for all conditions, but not so much as to get you into
>> trouble faster than you can get out of it. I previously had a 450 that
>> was adequate on the street, but suicidally anemic on the highway.
>
> 450 anemic? I could reach scary speeds in seconds on my Daytona.
>
> I'm sure those GWs can really haul but getting it upright if it ever
> fell over would be a challenge. Of course I'm not the biggest guy and I
> saw some huge bikers on those things. One of them had to be pushing 600
> lbs. What a sight.

I had a 550cc Honda, didn't care for it. A few years later traded it
in for an 850cc MotoGuzzi. Better, but a pain to pick up if it fell
over.

--
Jim
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388716 is a reply to message #388697] Tue, 12 November 2019 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
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Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:04:46 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 10:13:55 AM UTC-7, Scott wrote:
>
>> Am I alone in thinking that both the US and UK conventions are
>> *wrong*? "Gas" is a phase of matter, and "petrol[eum]" covers a *lot*
>> of ground. My backyard grill runs on a petrol[eum] gas called propane.
>> My car uses liquid fuel, not gas; my truck uses a liquid fuel that
>> nobody calls gas but I buy it at a gas station. Just...why?
>
> Why?
>
> Well, if I made up a name on my own for that orangey-yellow stuff one puts in a
> car to make it go, other people wouldn't know what I was talking about.

Apropos colo(u)r. Didn't different petrol stations add some colo(u)ring
to it? Like Shell's was yellow-ish, while BP's was green, to match the
colo(u)r of their logo? I think the petrol of the German Aral was blue
because their logo had a blue background. If, is it still the case today?

Of course it would have made no sense as no one ever sees the fuel unless
spilling over.
--
Andreas
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388720 is a reply to message #388716] Tue, 12 November 2019 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 1:12:09 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> Of course it would have made no sense as no one ever sees the fuel unless
> spilling over.

In Alberta, the fuel used by farm vehicles is colored purple. That is because it
is exempted from highway taxes - and the color is seen in their exhaust.

John Savard
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388721 is a reply to message #388701] Tue, 12 November 2019 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 13:21:30 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Always thought a sidecar was just plain nuts.
>>> It just contradicts the whole motorcycle experience.
>>>
>>> On a recent trip up to Maine I talked to a few guys on Honda Gold Wings.
>>> While the sheer mass of those bikes is impressive, I really don't see
>>> it. When I bought my Triumph, 500ccs was all I was willing to go.
>>> That's all the power I wanted. Long trips on the highways didn't bother
>>> me at all, and I could still take off through the woods without sinking
>>> into the mud. If I ever get tempted again, 250-350 is probably what
>>> I'll go for.
>>
>> For all of their impressive bulk, the Gold Wing design team included
>> people with experience in motorcycle racing, and it shows. GWs are
>> stunningly agile. When I still rode, I would not have said no to one
>> if it was in my budget. I was pretty happy with my 900cc bike, though;
>> plenty enough for all conditions, but not so much as to get you into
>> trouble faster than you can get out of it. I previously had a 450 that
>> was adequate on the street, but suicidally anemic on the highway.
>
> 450 anemic? I could reach scary speeds in seconds on my Daytona.

My CB400T could top 100 without much trouble. I did it most mornings
on the way to work (yeah, I was stupid).

> I'm sure those GWs can really haul but getting it upright if it ever
> fell over would be a challenge. Of course I'm not the biggest guy and I
> saw some huge bikers on those things. One of them had to be pushing 600
> lbs. What a sight.
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388722 is a reply to message #388681] Tue, 12 November 2019 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 12 Nov 2019 14:46:05 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:

> On 2019-11-11, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2019-11-10, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <87sgmv8nyy.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>,
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> > large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> > screen is a PITA.
>>>>
>>>> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
>>>> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
>>>> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
>>>
>>> That's one way to do it. Another is to use it like the old trip maps
>>> from the Esso Travel Club to see what route they suggest and then make
>>> up your own mind.
>>
>> What, you mean evaluate options and plan your trip in advance?
>> Boooooring. (And you can do that with paper maps without being
>> dependent on any satnav system.)
>>
>> I can see possible advantages to satnav in a distant, unfamiliar city.
>> But a city map works pretty well; street-indexed map books work even
>> better. And if you have any idea where you're going on a long-distance
>> trip, road signs give enough information to get you to the city where
>> you're going. (If you don't have any idea where you're going, probably
>> you shouldn't be going in the first place.)
>>
>
> I got one extra to the car last tie i changed autos, used it once, found it
> an irritant, dashcam went the same way. Old guy, cconcentrate on the road.

Dashcam is mainly for evidence when you crash or get stopped. The one
that's helpful is the back-up camera.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388723 is a reply to message #388716] Tue, 12 November 2019 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:12:08 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:04:46 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 10:13:55 AM UTC-7, Scott wrote:
>>
>>> Am I alone in thinking that both the US and UK conventions are
>>> *wrong*? "Gas" is a phase of matter, and "petrol[eum]" covers a *lot*
>>> of ground. My backyard grill runs on a petrol[eum] gas called propane.
>>> My car uses liquid fuel, not gas; my truck uses a liquid fuel that
>>> nobody calls gas but I buy it at a gas station. Just...why?
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Well, if I made up a name on my own for that orangey-yellow stuff one puts in a
>> car to make it go, other people wouldn't know what I was talking about.
>
> Apropos colo(u)r. Didn't different petrol stations add some colo(u)ring
> to it? Like Shell's was yellow-ish, while BP's was green, to match the
> colo(u)r of their logo? I think the petrol of the German Aral was blue
> because their logo had a blue background. If, is it still the case today?
>
> Of course it would have made no sense as no one ever sees the fuel unless
> spilling over.

AVGAS is colored to indicate the octane rating. When you're checking
the tank for condensation on the preflight you're supposed to check
the color too to make sure the plane has the right gas in it.

In the US fuel sold for non-highway, non-aviation use has red dye
added for tax reasons--you're not supposed to use fuel in a highway
vehicle on which the "gas tax" has not been paid.

The pump gas I've been getting lately is very clear.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388725 is a reply to message #388503] Tue, 12 November 2019 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:22:15 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 12:52:28 -0600, JimP wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 13:04:28 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
>> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:39:36 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to a
>>>> > subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to ask if I
>>>> > can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted to see the
>>>> > book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it invalid!
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like that would be illegal - destruction of a government or some
>>>> such.
>>>
>>> They destroyed the balance book which is their property, not my passport.
>>
>> Ah, but it would seem to me that since it had my info on it, it was
>> mine. The one bank I had one of those, they told me it was mine. The
>> blank ones were theirs, until they handed it to a customer.
>
> Not sure. A passport is also not yours but property of the Government,
> no? So if I'd destroyed "my" passport and the authorities would know that
> I might be punished.

Correct; however, the bank back then told me the record book of my
account was mine, after they handed it to me.

So different situations.

--
Jim
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388726 is a reply to message #388503] Tue, 12 November 2019 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:13:17 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:21:37 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

[snip]

>> Your car uses “gasoline”, so “gas”
>
> While it's called petrol in the UK. They could had shortened it to
> "pet". ;-)

"roll" would have been even better:
I need more roll to make it there. Here is a station.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388727 is a reply to message #388685] Tue, 12 November 2019 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joy Beeson is currently offline  Joy Beeson
Messages: 156
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> As far as this ridiculous defense of paper maps, it's sort of fun to see
> the defenders do mental back flips.

What sort of backflip does it take to refuse to carry something that I
*can't* carry?

I pull my paper map out of the left front pocket on my jersey.

It's always a print-out of something that I downloaded, though. It
hasn't been possible to buy a paper map for ten or twenty years.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388728 is a reply to message #388685] Tue, 12 November 2019 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

[snip]

> As far as this ridiculous defense of paper maps, it's sort of fun to see
> the defenders do mental back flips.

It is not ridiculous. It is also interesting to see the same
sort of defence by people who are totally for the digital route. If I
have a choice of technologies, I often use both.

Google Maps has some interesting frustrations.

It might show a community name at one level and when I magnify,
the name is now gone even though the area is still displayed. This
does not happen with a paper map.

Occasionally, Google Maps names all of the roads in an area the
same. This does not happen with a paper map either.

Overall, I tend to go digital, but I do like paper maps.

> It's so great to have lived through the dawn of computers. I've gone
> from feeding trays of cards to a car sized computer to pinching a screen
> to zoom in. Autocoder and Assembler were fun, but that doesn't stop me
> from appreciating the joys of Python, CSS, etc.

Exactly.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388729 is a reply to message #388723] Tue, 12 November 2019 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5100
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 2019-11-12, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:12:08 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> Apropos colo(u)r. Didn't different petrol stations add some colo(u)ring
>> to it? Like Shell's was yellow-ish, while BP's was green, to match the
>> colo(u)r of their logo? I think the petrol of the German Aral was blue
>> because their logo had a blue background. If, is it still the case today?
>>
>> Of course it would have made no sense as no one ever sees the fuel unless
>> spilling over.
>
> AVGAS is colored to indicate the octane rating. When you're checking
> the tank for condensation on the preflight you're supposed to check
> the color too to make sure the plane has the right gas in it.

And whether it really is avgas. Filling a piston plane's tanks with
jet fuel (it has happened) can _really_ ruin your day.

> In the US fuel sold for non-highway, non-aviation use has red dye
> added for tax reasons--you're not supposed to use fuel in a highway
> vehicle on which the "gas tax" has not been paid.

I remember hearing mention of purple gas here in B.C. too.
I don't know whether it's still purple. Maybe farm vehicles
use diesel now...

> The pump gas I've been getting lately is very clear.

Now that you mention it, I haven't really looked at car gas
for a while.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ "Alexa, define 'bugging'."
Re: greasy red Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388730 is a reply to message #388720] Tue, 12 November 2019 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
Messages: 1343
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
In article <da32ccf1-719f-4b85-8af1-ee3bc6e89023@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> In Alberta, the fuel used by farm vehicles is colored purple. That is because it
> is exempted from highway taxes - and the color is seen in their exhaust.

Here in the US, both off-road fuel and heating oil are dyed red to
show that the highway tax hasn't been paid. Other than the color,
they're similar but not the same. The heating oil I get is 10%
biofuel which I gather is made from used cooking grease, and the
sulfur limits are different.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388731 is a reply to message #388727] Tue, 12 November 2019 19:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 18:43:48 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> As far as this ridiculous defense of paper maps, it's sort of fun to see
>> the defenders do mental back flips.
>
> What sort of backflip does it take to refuse to carry something that I
> *can't* carry?

I don't recall now, what keeps you from carrying a phone?

> I pull my paper map out of the left front pocket on my jersey.
>
> It's always a print-out of something that I downloaded, though. It
> hasn't been possible to buy a paper map for ten or twenty years.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388732 is a reply to message #388729] Tue, 12 November 2019 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 13 Nov 2019 00:14:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2019-11-12, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:12:08 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
>> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Apropos colo(u)r. Didn't different petrol stations add some colo(u)ring
>>> to it? Like Shell's was yellow-ish, while BP's was green, to match the
>>> colo(u)r of their logo? I think the petrol of the German Aral was blue
>>> because their logo had a blue background. If, is it still the case today?
>>>
>>> Of course it would have made no sense as no one ever sees the fuel unless
>>> spilling over.
>>
>> AVGAS is colored to indicate the octane rating. When you're checking
>> the tank for condensation on the preflight you're supposed to check
>> the color too to make sure the plane has the right gas in it.
>
> And whether it really is avgas. Filling a piston plane's tanks with
> jet fuel (it has happened) can _really_ ruin your day.
>
>> In the US fuel sold for non-highway, non-aviation use has red dye
>> added for tax reasons--you're not supposed to use fuel in a highway
>> vehicle on which the "gas tax" has not been paid.
>
> I remember hearing mention of purple gas here in B.C. too.
> I don't know whether it's still purple. Maybe farm vehicles
> use diesel now...
>
>> The pump gas I've been getting lately is very clear.
>
> Now that you mention it, I haven't really looked at car gas
> for a while.

It's actually kind of annoying--it's hard to tell if the lawn mower is
full by looking in the tank.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388743 is a reply to message #388657] Wed, 13 November 2019 05:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niklas Karlsson is currently offline  Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 248
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-11, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 4:55:29 PM UTC-7, JimP wrote:
>
>> Ow. I would be tempted to say something like 'do you feel okay ?' to
>> anyone cutting up one of my official documents. Or asking them if they
>> needed their diapers changed. I would likely have been slightly rude,
>> but hopefully not enough to get arrested. Or maybe I would have been
>> very rude. While smiling at them.
>
> Whether or not it's an offence against diplomatic relations to damage a
> passport, it's clearly damage to property. So I would contact the police, and
> seek to have *them* arrested, and made liable for any expenses I might face in
> having a new passport issued.

The way I read it, it wasn't the passport they cut up.

Niklas
--
So, um. Some people, when they were children, at some point
accidentally found their parents' pr0n. I, instead, accidentally
found my parents' FORTRAN books.
-- Jed Davis, asr
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388744 is a reply to message #388743] Wed, 13 November 2019 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4322
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 3:39:51 AM UTC-7, Niklas Karlsson wrote:

> The way I read it, it wasn't the passport they cut up.

And, indeed, you read it correctly. I was not the only one to read it the wrong
way; by this time, Andreas Kohlbach even asked why so many people made that
mistake, and in a series of three posts, I supplied an answer.

John Savard
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388745 is a reply to message #388709] Wed, 13 November 2019 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-12, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 13:21:30 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:
>>
>> I'm sure those GWs can really haul but getting it upright if it ever
>> fell over would be a challenge. Of course I'm not the biggest guy and I
>> saw some huge bikers on those things. One of them had to be pushing 600
>> lbs. What a sight.
>
> I had a 550cc Honda, didn't care for it. A few years later traded it
> in for an 850cc MotoGuzzi. Better, but a pain to pick up if it fell
> over.
>
> --
> Jim

Twwo points, my wife had a nissan micra, 998cc, quite adequate for local traffic,
but when I forgot about the small enging on the motorway, an dhad to slow in
a hurry, it got a bit scary. 500 cc should be big enough for a motorbike

The moror bikers around here have a sort of formal funerals, a man on a trike
that survived a bad crash usually leads. Yes, the funerals are that frequent



--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388746 is a reply to message #388731] Wed, 13 November 2019 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4322
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 5:23:00 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:

> I don't recall now, what keeps you from carrying a phone?

Absent rather unusual circumstances, maybe this is a reference to distracted
driving laws?

John Savard
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388747 is a reply to message #388695] Wed, 13 November 2019 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-12, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Always thought a sidecar was just plain nuts.
>> It just contradicts the whole motorcycle experience.
>
> It is of course an almost completely different experience, they are
> (AFAIK) the only street legal class of vehicle that does not naturally go
> in a straight line which makes them amazingly manoeuvrable and great fun
> but rather quirky.
>

They were common in the German Army during WWII, it is amazing that it took
so long for the idea of the ATV to develope from that.


--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388749 is a reply to message #388720] Wed, 13 November 2019 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-12, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 1:12:09 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> Of course it would have made no sense as no one ever sees the fuel unless
>> spilling over.
>
> In Alberta, the fuel used by farm vehicles is colored purple. That is because it
> is exempted from highway taxes - and the color is seen in their exhaust.

Is here (.ie) too, never noticed the color of the exhaust. Some very dodgy
organizations have ways to remove the dye.



--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388752 is a reply to message #388749] Wed, 13 November 2019 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4550
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 13 Nov 2019 15:44:41 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:

> On 2019-11-12, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 1:12:09 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course it would have made no sense as no one ever sees the fuel
>>> unless spilling over.
>>
>> In Alberta, the fuel used by farm vehicles is colored purple. That is
>> because it is exempted from highway taxes - and the color is seen in
>> their exhaust.
>
> Is here (.ie) too, never noticed the color of the exhaust. Some very dodgy
> organizations have ways to remove the dye.

For a brief period the dyes used on either side of the border
reacted to form a precipitate that could be filtered so there was a fine
business mixing agri diesel from North and South until it was found out.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388753 is a reply to message #388747] Wed, 13 November 2019 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4550
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 13 Nov 2019 15:30:33 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:

> On 2019-11-12, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Always thought a sidecar was just plain nuts.
>>> It just contradicts the whole motorcycle experience.
>>
>> It is of course an almost completely different experience, they
>> are (AFAIK) the only street legal class of vehicle that does not
>> naturally go in a straight line which makes them amazingly manoeuvrable
>> and great fun but rather quirky.
>>
>
> They were common in the German Army during WWII,

My first sidecar machine was a Russian copy (I gather they just
kept the factories running) of the German wartime outfit.

> it is amazing that it
> took so long for the idea of the ATV to develope from that.

It would go pretty much anywhere, I tried a disused railway track
bed and the sidings, mud too deep and sloppy to walk through and of course
easy things like fields and hillsides. The owners manual included
instructions for traversing all sorts of unreasonable terrain.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388756 is a reply to message #388728] Wed, 13 November 2019 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8054
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
iGene Wirchenko <gene@shaw.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> As far as this ridiculous defense of paper maps, it's sort of fun to see
>> the defenders do mental back flips.
>
> It is not ridiculous. It is also interesting to see the same
> sort of defence by people who are totally for the digital route. If I
> have a choice of technologies, I often use both.

I like paper because of the scale. If I had a screen that’s 30” wide that I
could hold on my lap or fold where I wanted I’d use it. When I’ve planned
cross-country trips I’ve planned our the routes and each days trip using a
map. Often the route would depend on factors other than shortest distance
or time.Most of the trips were interstates, so I didn’t need a lot of the
additional stuff I’d get electronically.
>
> Google Maps has some interesting frustrations.
>
> It might show a community name at one level and when I magnify,
> the name is now gone even though the area is still displayed. This
> does not happen with a paper map.
>
> Occasionally, Google Maps names all of the roads in an area the
> same. This does not happen with a paper map either.
>
> Overall, I tend to go digital, but I do like paper maps.
>
>> It's so great to have lived through the dawn of computers. I've gone
>> from feeding trays of cards to a car sized computer to pinching a screen
>> to zoom in. Autocoder and Assembler were fun, but that doesn't stop me
>> from appreciating the joys of Python, CSS, etc.
>

I had great fun with the old computers, but whenever I think about using
them today, ir fire up an emulator,, I wonder what the heck the attraction
was.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388758 is a reply to message #388732] Wed, 13 November 2019 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5100
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-13, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 13 Nov 2019 00:14:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2019-11-12, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The pump gas I've been getting lately is very clear.
>>
>> Now that you mention it, I haven't really looked at car gas
>> for a while.
>
> It's actually kind of annoying--it's hard to tell if the lawn mower is
> full by looking in the tank.

We have an electric lawn mower now.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ "Alexa, define 'bugging'."
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388765 is a reply to message #388752] Wed, 13 November 2019 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-13, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 13 Nov 2019 15:44:41 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2019-11-12, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 at 1:12:09 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course it would have made no sense as no one ever sees the fuel
>>>> unless spilling over.
>>>
>>> In Alberta, the fuel used by farm vehicles is colored purple. That is
>>> because it is exempted from highway taxes - and the color is seen in
>>> their exhaust.
>>
>> Is here (.ie) too, never noticed the color of the exhaust. Some very dodgy
>> organizations have ways to remove the dye.
>
> For a brief period the dyes used on either side of the border
> reacted to form a precipitate that could be filtered so there was a fine
> business mixing agri diesel from North and South until it was found out.
>


A friend pretends to farm, wwhile his wife brings home the actual money, his
car was 'offline', so when she arrived home from work, he borrowed her beamer
to get parts, and filled up on the way back at a fuel-station, next morning
the beaamer complained. New engine needed.

--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388767 is a reply to message #388765] Thu, 14 November 2019 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4550
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 14 Nov 2019 00:00:28 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:

> A friend pretends to farm, wwhile his wife brings home the actual money,
> his car was 'offline', so when she arrived home from work, he borrowed
> her beamer to get parts, and filled up on the way back at a fuel-station,
> next morning the beaamer complained. New engine needed.

Petrol in a diesel engine ?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388768 is a reply to message #388767] Thu, 14 November 2019 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 14 Nov 2019 00:00:28 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> A friend pretends to farm, wwhile his wife brings home the actual money,
>> his car was 'offline', so when she arrived home from work, he borrowed
>> her beamer to get parts, and filled up on the way back at a fuel-station,
>> next morning the beaamer complained. New engine needed.
>
> Petrol in a diesel engine ?
>
rogue diesel.

--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388774 is a reply to message #388731] Thu, 14 November 2019 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joy Beeson is currently offline  Joy Beeson
Messages: 156
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 19:22:59 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't recall now, what keeps you from carrying a phone?

I do carry a flip phone, and send and receive several texts every time
I go out. But the kind of phone you guys are talking about is both
too huge to carry in a pocket, and too teeny to do anything that I
want done.

And absurdly expensive. One of my relatives spent more on a case to
protect her fragile phone than I spend in a year for mine. (For her,
it's worth it.)

Even in the case, I don't think hers could stand being dropped on a
ceramic-tile floor. I did that to mine once -- the battery popped
out, but when I put it back together, it was as good as new.

There's a GPS on the dashboard of the car. The last time I drove, I
actually followed its suggestion, after over-ruling two others that
would have led to trying to turn left onto Center Street from a
driveway. But crossing Center on Argonne instead of Harrison was a
good idea, and I'll do it next time too. If I still remember when we
next indulge in fried chicken.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388776 is a reply to message #388774] Thu, 14 November 2019 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 23:27:15 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 19:22:59 -0500, J. Clarke
> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't recall now, what keeps you from carrying a phone?
>
> I do carry a flip phone, and send and receive several texts every time
> I go out. But the kind of phone you guys are talking about is both
> too huge to carry in a pocket, and too teeny to do anything that I
> want done.
>
> And absurdly expensive. One of my relatives spent more on a case to
> protect her fragile phone than I spend in a year for mine. (For her,
> it's worth it.)
>
> Even in the case, I don't think hers could stand being dropped on a
> ceramic-tile floor. I did that to mine once -- the battery popped
> out, but when I put it back together, it was as good as new.
>
> There's a GPS on the dashboard of the car. The last time I drove, I
> actually followed its suggestion, after over-ruling two others that
> would have led to trying to turn left onto Center Street from a
> driveway. But crossing Center on Argonne instead of Harrison was a
> good idea, and I'll do it next time too. If I still remember when we
> next indulge in fried chicken.

I used to use an LG that I think I paid a hundred bucks for that
nearly disappears in a shirt pocket. Note that that's a hundred bucks
outright for an unlocked phone, not a hundred bucks plus a "plan". I
finally moved upmarket a bit to a ZTE that was 300, still fits in a
shirt pocket--the LG was fine but I wanted more memory.

Your friends phones are status symbols. Adequate tools are a lot
cheaper.
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