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Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388612 is a reply to message #388503] Sun, 10 November 2019 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
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On 9 Nov 2019 18:06:11 GMT, Huge wrote:
>
> On 2019-11-09, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 11/8/2019 11:13 PM, Huge wrote:
>>
>>> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
>>> pisses me off.)
>>
>> "Global Positioning System" is an accurate generic, but too much of a
>> mouthful. We tend to think of "GPS" as a generic that includes all the
>> systems ("New and Improved!! Now With Added GLONASS!"), like calling
>> all vacuum cleaners "hoovers".
>
> Ummmm, no. GPS is only part of a satellite navigation system.

Isn't that a proper noun? Like saying "I take my Walkman and listen to
music" although the portable cassette player in question is made by Sanyo?
--
Andreas

My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388613 is a reply to message #388609] Sun, 10 November 2019 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
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Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
In article <87sgmv8nyy.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>,
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>
>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>> screen is a PITA.
>
> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.

That's one way to do it. Another is to use it like the old trip maps
from the Esso Travel Club to see what route they suggest and then make
up your own mind.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388615 is a reply to message #388609] Sun, 10 November 2019 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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Registered: June 2012
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On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 1:40:07 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.

Many people who have tried that have driven to places that they shouldn't have.

And I don't mean houses of ill repute.

People who blindly follow routes set forth on a GPS, and destroy historic wooden
bridges, whose cars get stuck in cow paths, who find themselves unable to drive
across a crevasse, and so on and so forth seem to get into the news every week.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388616 is a reply to message #388615] Sun, 10 November 2019 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 13:52:19 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 1:40:07 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
>> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
>> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
>
> Many people who have tried that have driven to places that they shouldn't have.
>
> And I don't mean houses of ill repute.
>
> People who blindly follow routes set forth on a GPS, and destroy historic wooden
> bridges, whose cars get stuck in cow paths, who find themselves unable to drive
> across a crevasse, and so on and so forth seem to get into the news every week.
>
> John Savard

People were dieing in Australia a few years ago because their GPS
system sent them to a similarly named location than the one they
wanted. No gas nor water there.

--
Jim
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388617 is a reply to message #388503] Sun, 10 November 2019 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gerard Schildberger is currently offline  Gerard Schildberger
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Registered: September 2012
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Senior Member
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 10:47:54 AM UTC-6, Dave Garland wrote:
> On 11/10/2019 6:22 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
>>> told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
>>> take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
>>> his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.
>>
>> What _is_ wrong with people these days?

| Where I grew up, there wasn't any address. The post went to "Rural
| gather we still have some Indian reservations where they don't have
| house numbers.

Yes. In North Dakota, the powers-that-be (Republicans) tried to
disenfranchise the Native Americans (Indians on the reservations) by
passing laws that voters needed a US Post Office address in order to
vote. The Democratic candidates received a lot less votes in the past
election (NA's overwhelming vote blue in ND). ______ Gerard Schildberger
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388618 is a reply to message #388608] Sun, 10 November 2019 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 10 Nov 2019 16:31:38 -0400, Mike Spencer <mspencer@tallships.ca>
wrote:

>
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
>> It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
>> all.
>
> I must ask someone who has this newfangled nav stuff to try it here!
>
> 75 years ago, my gravel road had a nearby crossroad with another.
> Fifty years ago, when I moved here, a half-mile bit of road, from the
> crossroad to a nearby hardtop road, had been completely abandoned. 30
> years ago, that bit was privatized and 2 houses built in the middle of
> it, one 1/4 mile from my end, the other at the far end. 20 years ago,
> my road was "upgraded" so the crossroad as such disappeared. Now
> there's just a sharp curve with a smaller (because less used)
> branch. And a private lane that ends in the 30-years-new house's
> dooryard.
>
> Google maps still shows the crossroad and now-private bit as active
> roads, presumably based on official WW II era topo maps.
>
> I must get a friend to ask for the satnav route from my door to
> Crousetown and see if it sends me up my neighbor's driveway.
>
> Oh, and the only time in 50 years that I had to call an ambulance,
> their satnav directed them to enter my road from the north end.
> Result was 5+ miles of thrashng over ruts and ridges in frozen
> Ferbruary slush and frozen mud. Departing for the hospital, they
> were overjoyed to learn that we were only 1/2 a mile from the pavement
> over a much better maintained/ploughed segment of my road.

I sympathize much. The system is not perfect.

It took me to Fermont just fine, where I managed to drop the bike and
damage myself sufficiently that I didn't feel like continuing on to
Goose Bay which was the original intent.

But coming back, at one point in Quebec the city it took me to a gas
station. Well, there was a gas station, but to get to it I would have
had to cross a fence, an active runway, and a taxiway, and while I
suspect the bike would have been fine with 100LL, I don't know if the
tax system in Canada allows aviation fuel to be used in highway
vehicles.

So having finally found a non-aviation gas station, I'm headed home
and it tells me "Turn left immediately". Turn left immediately would
have taken me across a guard rail, two oncoming lanes of traffic, a
fence, and up a concrete embankment where hat the top I would have hit
my head on the bottom of an overpass.

Then on the way home, I got tired of Interstate and decided to take
the scenic route. So I got off the highway and started following the
route it gave me. Very nice little town center, then a residential
area, then the road started getting progressively worse. After a
while it was makign the Trans Labrador look like the Autobahn--OK, I'm
having an adventure. Then the road came to a fence, with a hole cut
in it, and path through a farm field on the other side. And an
unhappy looking farmer . . .
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388619 is a reply to message #388609] Sun, 10 November 2019 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>
>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>> screen is a PITA.
>
> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.

On a long-ish trip I like to have a general idea of where I’m going. What
cities do I pass thru, where might I like to stop for lunch or for the
night. Of course these are usually interstate trips, so I don’t need
navigation. I used to use the GPS mostly to keep track of time remaining to
point x.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388620 is a reply to message #388611] Sun, 10 November 2019 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike Spencer <mspencer@tallships.ca> writes:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
>>> It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
>>> all.
>>
>> I must ask someone who has this newfangled nav stuff to try it here!
>>
>> 75 years ago, my gravel road had a nearby crossroad with another.
>> Fifty years ago, when I moved here, a half-mile bit of road, from the
>> crossroad to a nearby hardtop road, had been completely abandoned. 30
>> years ago, that bit was privatized and 2 houses built in the middle of
>> it, one 1/4 mile from my end, the other at the far end. 20 years ago,
>> my road was "upgraded" so the crossroad as such disappeared. Now
>> there's just a sharp curve with a smaller (because less used)
>> branch. And a private lane that ends in the 30-years-new house's
>> dooryard.
>>
>> Google maps still shows the crossroad and now-private bit as active
>> roads, presumably based on official WW II era topo maps.
>>
>> I must get a friend to ask for the satnav route from my door to
>> Crousetown and see if it sends me up my neighbor's driveway.
>>
>> Oh, and the only time in 50 years that I had to call an ambulance,
>> their satnav directed them to enter my road from the north end.
>> Result was 5+ miles of thrashng over ruts and ridges in frozen
>> Ferbruary slush and frozen mud. Departing for the hospital, they
>> were overjoyed to learn that we were only 1/2 a mile from the pavement
>> over a much better maintained/ploughed segment of my road.
>
> Wow, I used to live in the sticks, (in the Bronx) but not so much anymore.
>
> Anyone can submit map updates to Google so any issues can be
> solved.
>

You can submit them. I tried to get the name of a road corrected. They
acknowledged the problem, but after several years, I don’t think it’s been
fixed yet. This was important because a search wouldn’t find the road under
the incorrect name.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388621 is a reply to message #388615] Sun, 10 November 2019 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 1:40:07 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
>> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
>> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
>
> Many people who have tried that have driven to places that they shouldn't have.
>
> And I don't mean houses of ill repute.
>
> People who blindly follow routes set forth on a GPS, and destroy historic wooden
> bridges, whose cars get stuck in cow paths, who find themselves unable to drive
> across a crevasse, and so on and so forth seem to get into the news every week.
>

I think a few years ago a couple died because their GPS routed them up a
dirt fire road thru the mountains in the middle of winter.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388622 is a reply to message #388619] Sun, 10 November 2019 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 16:02:44 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>> screen is a PITA.
>>
>> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
>> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
>> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
>
> On a long-ish trip I like to have a general idea of where I’m going. What
> cities do I pass thru, where might I like to stop for lunch or for the
> night. Of course these are usually interstate trips, so I don’t need
> navigation. I used to use the GPS mostly to keep track of time remaining to
> point x.

Yelp, find lunch. (Yelp, because it includes ratings, thus allowing
one to rule out the Bates Motel and the like).
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388625 is a reply to message #388618] Mon, 11 November 2019 00:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 3:25:53 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
> I don't know if the
> tax system in Canada allows aviation fuel to be used in highway
> vehicles.

Although of course you jest, given that (particularly since 9/11), rather larger
issues would arise... but at least this issue you identify hasn't inspired anyone
to add purple dye to aviation fuel.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388633 is a reply to message #388606] Mon, 11 November 2019 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorgen Grahn is currently offline  Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
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Senior Member
On Sun, 2019-11-10, J Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:41:24 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 06:02:27 -0700, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
....

>>>> It amazes me that back in his youth, at least in the US, roads didn’t even
>>>> have names, to say nothing oh house numbers. An address might be “three
>>>> miles out of town on the road to Greenfield Center.” It now makes trying to
>>>> find old landmarks a bitch.
>>>
>>> Note that he grew up in Brooklyn--roads most assuredly had names and
>>> houses had numbers.
>>
>> I grew up in the Bronx.
>> #5 Hollers Estate to be exact.
>> Only dirt roads, no names to any of them.
>
> Fine, he was lying to me the whole time. If you have the fortune to
> end up the same place he did then you can tell him.

I think he just meant it was different in the Bronx, not that
he pretended to know anything about Brooklyn decades earlier.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388634 is a reply to message #388633] Mon, 11 November 2019 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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Senior Member
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:

> On Sun, 2019-11-10, J Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:41:24 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 06:02:27 -0700, Peter Flass
>>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ...
>
>>>> >It amazes me that back in his youth, at least in the US, roads didn’t even
>>>> >have names, to say nothing oh house numbers. An address might be “three
>>>> >miles out of town on the road to Greenfield Center.” It now makes trying to
>>>> >find old landmarks a bitch.
>>>>
>>>> Note that he grew up in Brooklyn--roads most assuredly had names and
>>>> houses had numbers.
>>>
>>> I grew up in the Bronx.
>>> #5 Hollers Estate to be exact.
>>> Only dirt roads, no names to any of them.
>>
>> Fine, he was lying to me the whole time. If you have the fortune to
>> end up the same place he did then you can tell him.
>
> I think he just meant it was different in the Bronx, not that
> he pretended to know anything about Brooklyn decades earlier.
>
> /Jorgen

I took it as just JC being contrary.

My earliest memories of the Bronx, there were farms, lots of undeveloped
land. Some of the most beautiful terrain you can imagine. Each time I
return more and more of it has succumbed to the power of dynamite.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388636 is a reply to message #388548] Mon, 11 November 2019 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:
> On 9 Nov 2019 05:13:49 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>

>
> Also the difference of doing automatic routing and navigation without
> GPS inputs. The map app on my phone is utterly worthless without both
> GPS and a network connection. (Show of hands if you can read a paper
> map...and know how to fold it back up.)
>
> I had (still have, but it's out of date) a road map application where
> you manually tell it where you are, where you're going, how many hours
> a day you want to drive, how far you could go between stops, etc., and
> it would give you a route and itinerary for fuel stops and layovers.
> It even had cost estimating for food, fuel, and lodging. "Modern"
> satnav is better in a way, but the ones I've seen don't handle
> multi-day trip planning at all.

Show of hands for those that remember AAA trip-tiks.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388640 is a reply to message #388636] Mon, 11 November 2019 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:
>> On 9 Nov 2019 05:13:49 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Also the difference of doing automatic routing and navigation without
>> GPS inputs. The map app on my phone is utterly worthless without both
>> GPS and a network connection. (Show of hands if you can read a paper
>> map...and know how to fold it back up.)
>>
>> I had (still have, but it's out of date) a road map application where
>> you manually tell it where you are, where you're going, how many hours
>> a day you want to drive, how far you could go between stops, etc., and
>> it would give you a route and itinerary for fuel stops and layovers.
>> It even had cost estimating for food, fuel, and lodging. "Modern"
>> satnav is better in a way, but the ones I've seen don't handle
>> multi-day trip planning at all.
>
> Show of hands for those that remember AAA trip-tiks.
>

I loved those! They still have something like them, but computer-generated
and much les useful. I particularly enjoyed the descriptions “this highway
traverses gently rolling country interspersed with small streams and
woodlands.” etc.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388642 is a reply to message #388636] Mon, 11 November 2019 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 14:04:37 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
> nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:
>> On 9 Nov 2019 05:13:49 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Also the difference of doing automatic routing and navigation without
>> GPS inputs. The map app on my phone is utterly worthless without both
>> GPS and a network connection. (Show of hands if you can read a paper
>> map...and know how to fold it back up.)
>>
>> I had (still have, but it's out of date) a road map application where
>> you manually tell it where you are, where you're going, how many hours
>> a day you want to drive, how far you could go between stops, etc., and
>> it would give you a route and itinerary for fuel stops and layovers.
>> It even had cost estimating for food, fuel, and lodging. "Modern"
>> satnav is better in a way, but the ones I've seen don't handle
>> multi-day trip planning at all.
>
> Show of hands for those that remember AAA trip-tiks.

My parents used an AAA map to get from Texas to New England ( Maine,
New Hampshire, Vermont area for those living in England ), during the
building of the Interstate highway system.

It was months out of date. We got lost in the Ozark Mountains for 2
days. Almost ran out of gas.

--
Jim
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388646 is a reply to message #388642] Mon, 11 November 2019 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 9:42:21 AM UTC-7, JimP wrote:

> It was months out of date. We got lost in the Ozark Mountains for 2
> days. Almost ran out of gas.

That goes to show that one doesn't need GPS technology (of course, the GPS
satellites themselves really have nothing to do with it) to get misleading route
information. But computerization apparently has made the problem worse.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388650 is a reply to message #388503] Mon, 11 November 2019 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 10:41:52 -0600, JimP wrote:
>>
>> My parents used an AAA map to get from Texas to New England ( Maine,
>> New Hampshire, Vermont area for those living in England ), during the
>> building of the Interstate highway system.
>>
>> It was months out of date. We got lost in the Ozark Mountains for 2
>> days. Almost ran out of gas.
>
> Wow. Must have been scary.

Cue the banjos.

>
> In 1985 I was on holiday in Spain. Back then I had a book from my back
> where they print your balance and stuff plus for the "two way
> authentication" ;-) a card made of cardboard. Almost out of money I was
> on the way to the a bank there to get some cash. But I lost this card
> (and we had no other means of paying, how silly we were in our late
> teens). First the bank refused but after a long discussion and showing my
> passport instead of the paper card they gave us some cache.
>
> So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to a
> subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to ask if I
> can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted to see the
> book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it invalid!

Sounds like that would be illegal - destruction of a government or some
such.

We used up all
> our food already and I calculated that with the remaining cash we might
> just be able to buy enough gas to get home. We didn't eat for the rest of
> the day until we arrived late in the evening. We made it. Next day I
> wanted to fill up but the car didn't even start. That was too close.



--
Pete
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388652 is a reply to message #388613] Mon, 11 November 2019 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 2019-11-10, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> In article <87sgmv8nyy.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>,
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>
>>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>> screen is a PITA.
>>
>> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
>> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
>> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
>
> That's one way to do it. Another is to use it like the old trip maps
> from the Esso Travel Club to see what route they suggest and then make
> up your own mind.

What, you mean evaluate options and plan your trip in advance?
Boooooring. (And you can do that with paper maps without being
dependent on any satnav system.)

I can see possible advantages to satnav in a distant, unfamiliar city.
But a city map works pretty well; street-indexed map books work even
better. And if you have any idea where you're going on a long-distance
trip, road signs give enough information to get you to the city where
you're going. (If you don't have any idea where you're going, probably
you shouldn't be going in the first place.)

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ "Alexa, define 'bugging'."
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388653 is a reply to message #388621] Mon, 11 November 2019 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 2019-11-10, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 1:40:07 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>>> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
>>> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
>>> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
>>
>> Many people who have tried that have driven to places that they shouldn't
>> have.
>>
>> And I don't mean houses of ill repute.
>>
>> People who blindly follow routes set forth on a GPS, and destroy historic
>> wooden bridges, whose cars get stuck in cow paths, who find themselves
>> unable to drive across a crevasse, and so on and so forth seem to get
>> into the news every week.
>
> I think a few years ago a couple died because their GPS routed them up a
> dirt fire road thru the mountains in the middle of winter.

Yup. Here in B.C. between Keremeos and Oliver if memory serves.
Blind faith in technology is a good ticket to a Darwin Award.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ "Alexa, define 'bugging'."
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388655 is a reply to message #388652] Mon, 11 November 2019 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <qqcnd8014ed@news3.newsguy.com>,
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> What, you mean evaluate options and plan your trip in advance?
> Boooooring. (And you can do that with paper maps without being
> dependent on any satnav system.)
>
> I can see possible advantages to satnav in a distant, unfamiliar city.
> But a city map works pretty well; street-indexed map books work even
> better. ...

Indeed, but my phone fits in my pocket while a Thomas map book does
not.

Most map apps let you download area maps so you're not dependent
on a mobile data signal when you get there.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388656 is a reply to message #388503] Mon, 11 November 2019 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 14:01:26 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 10:41:52 -0600, JimP wrote:
>>
>> My parents used an AAA map to get from Texas to New England ( Maine,
>> New Hampshire, Vermont area for those living in England ), during the
>> building of the Interstate highway system.
>>
>> It was months out of date. We got lost in the Ozark Mountains for 2
>> days. Almost ran out of gas.
>
> Wow. Must have been scary.

We followed several cars trying to find a town or gas station.

last one we followed had a bumper sticker. 'Don't follow me, I'm lost
to.".

So we stayed put. Next morning someone stopped and asked if we needed
help. My dad said were were almost out of gas and explained about the
map. Around the curve was a gas station, but he closed at sunset. We
went there, he opened about sunrise, and filled up, restroom, snacks,
etc. He had a newer map that we did. He also told my dad how to get
back to the Interstate, which was still under construction.

> In 1985 I was on holiday in Spain. Back then I had a book from my back
> where they print your balance and stuff plus for the "two way
> authentication" ;-) a card made of cardboard. Almost out of money I was
> on the way to the a bank there to get some cash. But I lost this card
> (and we had no other means of paying, how silly we were in our late
> teens). First the bank refused but after a long discussion and showing my
> passport instead of the paper card they gave us some cache.
>
> So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to a
> subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to ask if I
> can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted to see the
> book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it invalid! We used up all
> our food already and I calculated that with the remaining cash we might
> just be able to buy enough gas to get home. We didn't eat for the rest of
> the day until we arrived late in the evening. We made it. Next day I
> wanted to fill up but the car didn't even start. That was too close.

Ow. I would be tempted to say something like 'do you feel okay ?' to
anyone cutting up one of my official documents. Or asking them if they
needed their diapers changed. I would likely have been slightly rude,
but hopefully not enough to get arrested. Or maybe I would have been
very rude. While smiling at them.

--
Jim
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388657 is a reply to message #388656] Mon, 11 November 2019 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 4:55:29 PM UTC-7, JimP wrote:

> Ow. I would be tempted to say something like 'do you feel okay ?' to
> anyone cutting up one of my official documents. Or asking them if they
> needed their diapers changed. I would likely have been slightly rude,
> but hopefully not enough to get arrested. Or maybe I would have been
> very rude. While smiling at them.

Whether or not it's an offence against diplomatic relations to damage a
passport, it's clearly damage to property. So I would contact the police, and
seek to have *them* arrested, and made liable for any expenses I might face in
having a new passport issued.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388658 is a reply to message #388650] Mon, 11 November 2019 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:39:36 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 10:41:52 -0600, JimP wrote:
>>>
>>> My parents used an AAA map to get from Texas to New England ( Maine,
>>> New Hampshire, Vermont area for those living in England ), during the
>>> building of the Interstate highway system.
>>>
>>> It was months out of date. We got lost in the Ozark Mountains for 2
>>> days. Almost ran out of gas.
>>
>> Wow. Must have been scary.
>
> Cue the banjos.

My parents became convinced I was overly scared. I was 8 years old and
realized it was their problem to solve. Anyway, my mother told me to
keep on the look out for Snuffy Smith's house. Ya know, the newspaper
comic strip guy. I went along with it as I figured all that dark, she
hated being in an area with no city lights, had driven her around the
bend. Then I was worried about my safety.

The three of us the next day decided we had been mistaken. Dad bought
me a soda pop and a candy car I liked, a little more money than the
one mom wanted to get me, to make up for mom's, uhm, behavior.

--
Jim
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388659 is a reply to message #388657] Mon, 11 November 2019 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 15:58:13 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 4:55:29 PM UTC-7, JimP wrote:
>
>> Ow. I would be tempted to say something like 'do you feel okay ?' to
>> anyone cutting up one of my official documents. Or asking them if they
>> needed their diapers changed. I would likely have been slightly rude,
>> but hopefully not enough to get arrested. Or maybe I would have been
>> very rude. While smiling at them.
>
> Whether or not it's an offence against diplomatic relations to damage a
> passport, it's clearly damage to property. So I would contact the police, and
> seek to have *them* arrested, and made liable for any expenses I might face in
> having a new passport issued.

Yeah, that to. Banks may think they are all powerful, but a government
document is something that isn't a toy for them to play with. At
least, I see it that way.

--
Jim
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388662 is a reply to message #388652] Mon, 11 November 2019 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-11-10, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <87sgmv8nyy.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>,
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> screen is a PITA.
>>>
>>> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
>>> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
>>> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
>>
>> That's one way to do it. Another is to use it like the old trip maps
>> from the Esso Travel Club to see what route they suggest and then make
>> up your own mind.
>
> What, you mean evaluate options and plan your trip in advance?
> Boooooring. (And you can do that with paper maps without being
> dependent on any satnav system.)
>
> I can see possible advantages to satnav in a distant, unfamiliar city.
> But a city map works pretty well; street-indexed map books work even
> better. And if you have any idea where you're going on a long-distance
> trip, road signs give enough information to get you to the city where
> you're going. (If you don't have any idea where you're going, probably
> you shouldn't be going in the first place.)
>

You obviously can’t consult a map en route, and it’s simpler to get audible
turn-by-turn directions than to try to remember a complicated sequence of
turns.

--
Pete
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388666 is a reply to message #388662] Mon, 11 November 2019 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <1089754092.595214112.020744.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You obviously can’t consult a map en route, ...

That's odd, I do it all the time, either at a red light or I pull over.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388677 is a reply to message #388650] Tue, 12 November 2019 05:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:39:36 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

>> So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to a
>> subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to ask if I
>> can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted to see the
>> book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it invalid!
>
> Sounds like that would be illegal - destruction of a government or some
> such.

Perhaps I'm misreading but I think it was the bank book they
destroyed which would be bank property. Destroying someones passport would
almost certainly be illegal, if someone did that to mine my next stop would
be the nearest embassy.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388678 is a reply to message #388677] Tue, 12 November 2019 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:02:53 +0000
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> destroyed which would be bank property. Destroying someones passport would
Damn! Found it! Now you ' get in there -------------^

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388679 is a reply to message #388666] Tue, 12 November 2019 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 02:58:19 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
<johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> In article <1089754092.595214112.020744.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> You obviously can’t consult a map en route, ...
>
> That's odd, I do it all the time, either at a red light or I pull over.

Now, try that on a motorcycle in the rain.
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388680 is a reply to message #388679] Tue, 12 November 2019 08:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 07:47:28 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 02:58:19 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <1089754092.595214112.020744.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> You obviously can’t consult a map en route, ...
>>
>> That's odd, I do it all the time, either at a red light or I pull over.
>
> Now, try that on a motorcycle in the rain.

Easy enough if you have a tank bag with map holder and the map is
folded to the right section, failing that a slidecar passenger is handy.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388681 is a reply to message #388652] Tue, 12 November 2019 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-11, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-11-10, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <87sgmv8nyy.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>,
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> screen is a PITA.
>>>
>>> Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
>>> enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
>>> driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
>>
>> That's one way to do it. Another is to use it like the old trip maps
>> from the Esso Travel Club to see what route they suggest and then make
>> up your own mind.
>
> What, you mean evaluate options and plan your trip in advance?
> Boooooring. (And you can do that with paper maps without being
> dependent on any satnav system.)
>
> I can see possible advantages to satnav in a distant, unfamiliar city.
> But a city map works pretty well; street-indexed map books work even
> better. And if you have any idea where you're going on a long-distance
> trip, road signs give enough information to get you to the city where
> you're going. (If you don't have any idea where you're going, probably
> you shouldn't be going in the first place.)
>

I got one extra to the car last tie i changed autos, used it once, found it
an irritant, dashcam went the same way. Old guy, cconcentrate on the road.




--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388682 is a reply to message #388657] Tue, 12 November 2019 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-11, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 4:55:29 PM UTC-7, JimP wrote:
>
>> Ow. I would be tempted to say something like 'do you feel okay ?' to
>> anyone cutting up one of my official documents. Or asking them if they
>> needed their diapers changed. I would likely have been slightly rude,
>> but hopefully not enough to get arrested. Or maybe I would have been
>> very rude. While smiling at them.
>
> Whether or not it's an offence against diplomatic relations to damage a
> passport, it's clearly damage to property. So I would contact the police, and
> seek to have *them* arrested, and made liable for any expenses I might face in
> having a new passport issued.
>
> John Savard

+1

--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388683 is a reply to message #388677] Tue, 12 November 2019 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2019-11-12, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:39:36 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>>> So we went back to Germany. First thing in the morning we went to a
>>> subsidiary of my bank and explained the story and was about to ask if I
>>> can get cash if I show my passport instead. They wanted to see the
>>> book. Took scissors to cut it in half, making it invalid!
>>
>> Sounds like that would be illegal - destruction of a government or some
>> such.
>
> Perhaps I'm misreading but I think it was the bank book they
> destroyed which would be bank property. Destroying someones passport would
> almost certainly be illegal, if someone did that to mine my next stop would
> be the nearest embassy.
>

Educational trip, go from Switzerland to Italy by train


--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388685 is a reply to message #388680] Tue, 12 November 2019 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 07:47:28 -0500
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 02:58:19 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <1089754092.595214112.020744.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> You obviously can’t consult a map en route, ...
>>>
>>> That's odd, I do it all the time, either at a red light or I pull over.
>>
>> Now, try that on a motorcycle in the rain.
>
> Easy enough if you have a tank bag with map holder and the map is
> folded to the right section, failing that a slidecar passenger is handy.

I rode for a few years.

Always thought a sidecar was just plain nuts.
It just contradicts the whole motorcycle experience.

On a recent trip up to Maine I talked to a few guys on Honda Gold Wings.
While the sheer mass of those bikes is impressive, I really don't see
it. When I bought my Triumph, 500ccs was all I was willing to go.
That's all the power I wanted. Long trips on the highways didn't bother
me at all, and I could still take off through the woods without sinking
into the mud. If I ever get tempted again, 250-350 is probably what
I'll go for.

As far as this ridiculous defense of paper maps, it's sort of fun to see
the defenders do mental back flips.

It's so great to have lived through the dawn of computers. I've gone
from feeding trays of cards to a car sized computer to pinching a screen
to zoom in. Autocoder and Assembler were fun, but that doesn't stop me
from appreciating the joys of Python, CSS, etc.

--
Dan Espen
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388687 is a reply to message #388679] Tue, 12 November 2019 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
No Message Body
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388688 is a reply to message #388503] Tue, 12 November 2019 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: nobody

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 13:37:58 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On 11 Nov 2019 12:15:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>
>> On 2019-11-11, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2019-11-10, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> > large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> > screen is a PITA.
>>>>
>>>> Why would you plan a route in the first place?
>>>
>>> Because, contrary to what most here believe, SatNavs are very far from
>>> infallible.
>>
>> Indeed, on Saturday I pulled out of a petrol (US: filling) station [...]
> ^^^^^^^
> Gas(oline). ;-)

Am I alone in thinking that both the US and UK conventions are
*wrong*? "Gas" is a phase of matter, and "petrol[eum]" covers a *lot*
of ground. My backyard grill runs on a petrol[eum] gas called propane.
My car uses liquid fuel, not gas; my truck uses a liquid fuel that
nobody calls gas but I buy it at a gas station. Just...why?
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388689 is a reply to message #388685] Tue, 12 November 2019 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: nobody

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Always thought a sidecar was just plain nuts.
> It just contradicts the whole motorcycle experience.
>
> On a recent trip up to Maine I talked to a few guys on Honda Gold Wings.
> While the sheer mass of those bikes is impressive, I really don't see
> it. When I bought my Triumph, 500ccs was all I was willing to go.
> That's all the power I wanted. Long trips on the highways didn't bother
> me at all, and I could still take off through the woods without sinking
> into the mud. If I ever get tempted again, 250-350 is probably what
> I'll go for.

For all of their impressive bulk, the Gold Wing design team included
people with experience in motorcycle racing, and it shows. GWs are
stunningly agile. When I still rode, I would not have said no to one
if it was in my budget. I was pretty happy with my 900cc bike, though;
plenty enough for all conditions, but not so much as to get you into
trouble faster than you can get out of it. I previously had a 450 that
was adequate on the street, but suicidally anemic on the highway.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388694 is a reply to message #388688] Tue, 12 November 2019 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 17:13:53 GMT
nobody@example.org (Scott) wrote:

> Am I alone in thinking that both the US and UK conventions are
> *wrong*?

Probably not, I'd have been surprised otherwise.

> "Gas" is a phase of matter, and "petrol[eum]" covers a *lot*

I believe petrol is supposed to be short for "petroleum spirit",
that still covers quite some ground but at least excludes the gasses.

Likewise "gas" is short for "gasoline" but past that I'm stumped
for meaning.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: maps on Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388695 is a reply to message #388685] Tue, 12 November 2019 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:28:39 -0500
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Always thought a sidecar was just plain nuts.
> It just contradicts the whole motorcycle experience.

It is of course an almost completely different experience, they are
(AFAIK) the only street legal class of vehicle that does not naturally go
in a straight line which makes them amazingly manoeuvrable and great fun
but rather quirky.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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