| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #387976 is a reply to message #387970] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 07:54   |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 23 Oct 2019 10:22:57 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:
> I am strating to get very cautious about drones, the sort of ones that we
> here woul have. Its very hard to judge how far away you aare from
> something, and people have been hurt
Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #387985 is a reply to message #387957] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 11:46 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:17:13 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 21 Oct 2019 21:34:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>> On 2019-10-21, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:59:49 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Norden was designed in the, then, clear skies of the US Southwest.
>>>> They didn't work very well in the foggy and rainy skies of Europe.
>>>
>>> I don't know for sure, but I suspect there were other factors
>>> (like the Jetstream) that the Norden didn't take into account.
>>
>> Temperature, for instance. The book _The Dam Busters_ mentions
>> the difficulty in calibrating temperature probes, allowing for
>> how much of the probe was in the airstream, how fast the aircraft
>> was flying, etc.
>
> Never read about it. But wasn't it easy to find the German dams? Once
> reaching the target they flew very low to deploy the bouncing bombs. The
> jet stream should not have any effect at this low altitude.
The jet stream was a problem in Japan.
The Dam Busters flew at 75 feet.
--
Jim
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #387986 is a reply to message #387985] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 11:57 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:17:13 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On 21 Oct 2019 21:34:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2019-10-21, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:59:49 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The Norden was designed in the, then, clear skies of the US Southwest.
>>>> > They didn't work very well in the foggy and rainy skies of Europe.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know for sure, but I suspect there were other factors
>>>> (like the Jetstream) that the Norden didn't take into account.
>>>
>>> Temperature, for instance. The book _The Dam Busters_ mentions
>>> the difficulty in calibrating temperature probes, allowing for
>>> how much of the probe was in the airstream, how fast the aircraft
>>> was flying, etc.
>>
>> Never read about it. But wasn't it easy to find the German dams? Once
>> reaching the target they flew very low to deploy the bouncing bombs. The
>> jet stream should not have any effect at this low altitude.
>
> The jet stream was a problem in Japan.
>
> The Dam Busters flew at 75 feet.
Over water, nicht wahr?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #387990 is a reply to message #387976] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 14:56 |
Andy Burns
Messages: 416
Registered: June 2012
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #387993 is a reply to message #387990] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 15:15 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>
>
> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>
Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
government to take action.
--
Pete
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #387994 is a reply to message #387993] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 15:56 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>
>>
>> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
>> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>>
>
> Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
> would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
> government to take action.
It's pretty easy to make a capable home-made drone.
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388008 is a reply to message #387961] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 20:15 |
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Originally posted by: Andy Walker
On 23/10/2019 00:07, J. Clarke wrote:
> The hard part was flying low enough to deliver the bomb (there were
> reasons it had to be delivered from a _very_ low altitude) without
> crashing. Imagine flying a Lancaster (a huge bomber) at 60 feet
> altitude, at night.
Indeed, but at least they were doing so [until after they'd
dropped the bomb] over _very_ level terrain!
--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388009 is a reply to message #387773] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 20:24 |
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Originally posted by: Andy Walker
On 23/10/2019 20:30, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> I read some articles and watched some videos about it. Even a movie was
> made by the Britains in the 1950s about that. [...]
Practically every conceivable aspect of WW2, apart from the
stuff in the Pacific that we left to John Wayne to describe, was
turned into a movie in the UK in the '50s. "Dambusters" is rarely
seen now, as the dog had an unfortunate-by-modern-standards name.
--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388012 is a reply to message #388009] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 21:19 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/10/2019 20:30, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> I read some articles and watched some videos about it. Even a movie was
>> made by the Britains in the 1950s about that. [...]
>
> Practically every conceivable aspect of WW2, apart from the
> stuff in the Pacific that we left to John Wayne to describe, was
> turned into a movie in the UK in the '50s. "Dambusters" is rarely
> seen now, as the dog had an unfortunate-by-modern-standards name.
>
Don’t recall the dog, but the movie is on TV from time to time. Apparently
not on Amazon, though.
--
Pete
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388013 is a reply to message #387970] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 22:18 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 23 Oct 2019 10:22:57 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2019-10-22, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 10/21/2019 5:29 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On 21 Oct 2019 09:31:02 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Well, yes, sometimes, if you really know what you are aiming at. Attacking
>>>> a wedding party is an example of what can happen when you are not sure wht
>>>> is going on.
>>>
>>> Note that on occasion that "wedding party" was stupid enough to fire
>>> at a drone.
>>>
>> Could be, though in that part of the world, weddings seem to involve a
>> certain amount of celebratory firing into the air. A drone is going to
>> be way too high to hit with an AK, and I expect everybody involved
>> knows that. But it's a good excuse to tell the public.
>
> I am strating to get very cautious about drones, the sort of ones that we here
> woul have. Its very hard to judge how far away you aare from something, and
> people have been hurt
In any case, it doesn't matter if they're too far away to hit, the
fact that one is shooting at them demonstrates hostile intent. In a
war zone that is sufficient. This isn't cops and robbers, it's
soldiers and "the enemy".
The thing one does not want to do in a war zone is lead the people
with the heavy firepower to believe that one is "the enemy".
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388014 is a reply to message #387993] |
Wed, 23 October 2019 22:21 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 12:15:38 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>
>>
>> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
>> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>>
>
> Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
> would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
> government to take action.
What leads you to believe that criminals would obey your law? All
they really have to do is bust the radio reciever. Or are you not
aware that hobby drones are capable of autonomous operation?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388016 is a reply to message #387990] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 01:28 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:56:43 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for
>> illicit delivery services, there's open source autopilot software
>> around now.
>
>
> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
Key word - autonomous. As you note manually flown is less discrete.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388022 is a reply to message #387773] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 05:41 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 10/23/2019 2:15 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
>>> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>>>
>>
>> Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
>> would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
>> government to take action.
>>
> Recently saw a news item (can't find it now) on an anti-drone system
> being shipped "overseas", presumably to Saudi Arabia. Picture was of a
> cargo-container sized rig with some big antennas, apparently kills
> drones by pumping enough microwaves to cook the drone's electronics.
> Dunno that you'd want something like that at Heathrow, though, it
> would probably do a number on a plane as well.
>
> But the obvious counter is for a drone to be autonomous and shielded.
>
> Alternatively, wonder if a fabric-and-wood drone would have enough
> radar return to be tracked. Or fly drones in pairs, one a decoy
> dispensing chaff. It's an arms race, that's for sure.
There is the theory that the explosives in Saudi were carried in, just
coordinated with drone attack,
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388025 is a reply to message #387986] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 13:14 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:57:12 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:17:13 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
>> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On 21 Oct 2019 21:34:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2019-10-21, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:59:49 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The Norden was designed in the, then, clear skies of the US Southwest.
>>>> >> They didn't work very well in the foggy and rainy skies of Europe.
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't know for sure, but I suspect there were other factors
>>>> > (like the Jetstream) that the Norden didn't take into account.
>>>>
>>>> Temperature, for instance. The book _The Dam Busters_ mentions
>>>> the difficulty in calibrating temperature probes, allowing for
>>>> how much of the probe was in the airstream, how fast the aircraft
>>>> was flying, etc.
>>>
>>> Never read about it. But wasn't it easy to find the German dams? Once
>>> reaching the target they flew very low to deploy the bouncing bombs. The
>>> jet stream should not have any effect at this low altitude.
>>
>> The jet stream was a problem in Japan.
>>
>> The Dam Busters flew at 75 feet.
>
> Over water, nicht wahr?
Yes. Over the dam reservoirs. I don't think they flew very high on the
way there, didn't want German radar to pick them up.
--
Jim
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388026 is a reply to message #387990] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 13:15 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:56:43 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>
>
> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
I've seen reports on this. Mostly they get caught, the prisoners and
the ones trying it from outside.
--
Jim
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388028 is a reply to message #387976] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 13:28 |
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Originally posted by: googlegroups jmfbahciv
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 8:00:26 AM UTC-4, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 23 Oct 2019 10:22:57 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> I am strating to get very cautious about drones, the sort of ones that we
>> here woul have. Its very hard to judge how far away you aare from
>> something, and people have been hurt
>
> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>
PETA uses them to spy on farms. they make it so painful for
farmers, that some are simply giving up. Note that the side effect
of going out of business is the death of all the animals (which seems
to be contrary to what PITAists say they believe in).
/BAH
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388032 is a reply to message #388009] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 14:08 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 01:24:31 +0100, Andy Walker wrote:
>
> On 23/10/2019 20:30, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> I read some articles and watched some videos about it. Even a movie was
>> made by the Britains in the 1950s about that. [...]
>
> Practically every conceivable aspect of WW2, apart from the
> stuff in the Pacific that we left to John Wayne to describe, was
> turned into a movie in the UK in the '50s.
Suppose any war spawns movies and series half a decade later. For example
did the TV series Magnum P.I. (1980, holy sh**, it'll be 40 years next
year!) have a lot references to the Vietnam war just the decade
before. And then there was Delta Force with Chuck and many others.
I remember there were also some Korea war movies in the 60s.
Hmm, was there much about the Iraq war from 1991? Can't remember there
was. People moved on to porn I guess.
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388033 is a reply to message #388014] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 14:23 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:21:26 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
>> would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
>> government to take action.
>
> What leads you to believe that criminals would obey your law? All
> they really have to do is bust the radio reciever. Or are you not
> aware that hobby drones are capable of autonomous operation?
Suppose you could tag every drone with an unique ID, like a public PGP
key. And can use one for this drone especially made controller with a
private key the owner can't access. The drone would broadcast its ID and
thus is identifiable. The Government (or airport authorities) get a tool
at hand to shut down any drone putting others in danger.
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388035 is a reply to message #388026] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 14:37 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:56:43 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>
>>
>> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
>> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>
> I've seen reports on this. Mostly they get caught, the prisoners and
> the ones trying it from outside.
>
> --
> Jim
Simplify. Good quality catapult.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388039 is a reply to message #388035] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 14:59 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2019-10-24, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:56:43 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>>
>>> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
>>> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>>
>> I've seen reports on this. Mostly they get caught, the prisoners and
>> the ones trying it from outside.
>
> Simplify. Good quality catapult.
A friend once built a small trebuchet. Impressive.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ "Alexa, define 'bugging'."
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388040 is a reply to message #388028] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 15:31 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> writes:
> On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 8:00:26 AM UTC-4, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On 23 Oct 2019 10:22:57 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am strating to get very cautious about drones, the sort of ones that we
>>> here woul have. Its very hard to judge how far away you aare from
>>> something, and people have been hurt
>>
>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>
>
> PETA uses them to spy on farms. they make it so painful for
> farmers, that some are simply giving up.
Another unsupported assertion from Barb.
Cite please?
> Note that the side effect
> of going out of business is the death of all the animals (which seems
> to be contrary to what PITAists say they believe in).
Why would that be a side effect?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388049 is a reply to message #388032] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 19:34 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 01:24:31 +0100, Andy Walker wrote:
>>
>> On 23/10/2019 20:30, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> I read some articles and watched some videos about it. Even a movie was
>>> made by the Britains in the 1950s about that. [...]
>>
>> Practically every conceivable aspect of WW2, apart from the
>> stuff in the Pacific that we left to John Wayne to describe, was
>> turned into a movie in the UK in the '50s.
>
> Suppose any war spawns movies and series half a decade later. For example
> did the TV series Magnum P.I. (1980, holy sh**, it'll be 40 years next
> year!) have a lot references to the Vietnam war just the decade
> before. And then there was Delta Force with Chuck and many others.
Weren’t Magnum, Rick, and whatsisname, the helicopter pilot, army buddies?
>
> I remember there were also some Korea war movies in the 60s.
>
> Hmm, was there much about the Iraq war from 1991? Can't remember there
> was. People moved on to porn I guess.
A fair amount. I’ve watched a few things.
--
Pete
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388050 is a reply to message #388033] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 19:34 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:21:26 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
>>> would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
>>> government to take action.
>>
>> What leads you to believe that criminals would obey your law? All
>> they really have to do is bust the radio reciever. Or are you not
>> aware that hobby drones are capable of autonomous operation?
>
> Suppose you could tag every drone with an unique ID, like a public PGP
> key. And can use one for this drone especially made controller with a
> private key the owner can't access. The drone would broadcast its ID and
> thus is identifiable. The Government (or airport authorities) get a tool
> at hand to shut down any drone putting others in danger.
Sounds good. Drones should also be registered so the police can quickly
identify the idiot who’s causing near-collisions with aircraft.
--
Pete
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388051 is a reply to message #388033] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 19:36 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:23:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:21:26 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
>>> would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
>>> government to take action.
>>
>> What leads you to believe that criminals would obey your law? All
>> they really have to do is bust the radio reciever. Or are you not
>> aware that hobby drones are capable of autonomous operation?
>
> Suppose you could tag every drone with an unique ID, like a public PGP
> key. And can use one for this drone especially made controller with a
> private key the owner can't access. The drone would broadcast its ID and
> thus is identifiable. The Government (or airport authorities) get a tool
> at hand to shut down any drone putting others in danger.
What part of "bust the transmitter" are you having trouble with? While
you're about it, bust the receiver.
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388052 is a reply to message #388022] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 19:37 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 24 Oct 2019 09:41:22 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2019-10-24, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 10/23/2019 2:15 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>>> > delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
>>>> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
>>> would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
>>> government to take action.
>>>
>> Recently saw a news item (can't find it now) on an anti-drone system
>> being shipped "overseas", presumably to Saudi Arabia. Picture was of a
>> cargo-container sized rig with some big antennas, apparently kills
>> drones by pumping enough microwaves to cook the drone's electronics.
>> Dunno that you'd want something like that at Heathrow, though, it
>> would probably do a number on a plane as well.
>>
>> But the obvious counter is for a drone to be autonomous and shielded.
>>
>> Alternatively, wonder if a fabric-and-wood drone would have enough
>> radar return to be tracked. Or fly drones in pairs, one a decoy
>> dispensing chaff. It's an arms race, that's for sure.
>
> There is the theory that the explosives in Saudi were carried in, just
> coordinated with drone attack,
Modern drones are plastic, why would fabric and wood be better?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388054 is a reply to message #388033] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 19:41 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:23:41 -0400
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> Suppose you could tag every drone with an unique ID,
Stop right there and reflect on the fact that making a drone from
handily obtained components is comfortably easy enough for a fairly bright
ten year old.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388055 is a reply to message #387773] |
Thu, 24 October 2019 20:09 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 10/24/2019 12:14 PM, JimP wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:57:12 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> The Dam Busters flew at 75 feet.
s/75/60/
>>> Over water, nicht wahr?
>>
>> Yes. Over the dam reservoirs. I don't think they flew very high on the
>> way there, didn't want German radar to pick them up.
>
> Over the reservoirs? They didn't fly from the downstream side, where
> most of the dam is exposed?
Nope. The whole point was for the bomb to explode underwater,
which transmitted much greater forces to the dam.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ "Alexa, define 'bugging'."
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388065 is a reply to message #388049] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 02:57 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> Hmm, was there much about the Iraq war from 1991? Can't remember there
>> was. People moved on to porn I guess.
Gulf war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
.... only last 100hrs were land war ... the rest was turkey shoot, pretty
much aerial bombing & shooting whatever wanted to. GAO air effectiveness
study had A10 so devastating taking out Iraqi tanks that their crews
were walking away from them because they were sitting ducks.
https://www.gao.gov/products/NSIAD-97-134
Description of fierce tank battles with coalition forces taking no
damage don't mention whether iraqi tanks had anybody home.
Boyd (I was introduced to him in the early 80s and sponsored his
briefings) is credited with the battle plan and the (failed) left hook,
cutting off and capturing all the Republican Guard. There are all sort
of stories how and/or why the Republican Guard managed to escape. One of
mine is that Boyd took the Abrams M1 specs at face value ... however he
might not of accounted for how tightly tied to their
supply/maintenance/repair (constantly needing maintenance&repair),
significantly delaying them from getting into position to trap the
retreating Republican Guard, tribute to Boyd (for those w/o
subscription)
http://radio-weblogs.com/0107127/stories/2002/12/23/genghisJ ohnChuckSpinneysBioOfJohnBoyd.html
General Charles Krulak, our nation's top Marine, called Boyd an
architect of victory in the Persian Gulf War. General Krulak was "awed"
by Boyd's intellect, character, integrity, and his selfless devotion to
our nation's welfare.
.... snip ...
One of Boyd's acolytes, was graduate of 1st USAF academy class and on
fast track to general, when he says Boyd destroyed his career by
challenging him to do what was right ... in this case "fix" the bradley
https://www.amazon.com/Pentagon-Wars-Reformers-Challenge-Gua rd-ebook/dp/B00HXY969W/
HBO turned into movie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars
NY Times article: Corrupt From Top to Bottom
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/03/books/corrupt-from-top-to -bottom.html
One of the other details, Burton had gotten the cost of 30MM shells
(used by he A10), cut from nearly $100 to $13 ... one million were used
during the Desert Storm air campaign (leading up to the short land
war). He also proposed a mini-A10 with 5 barrel gun that was simple
enough to be forward deployed and maintained.
Another "acolyte", sprey
https://www.usmcu.edu/Portals/218/ANewConceptionOfWar.pdf
loc835-38:
Boyd’s collaboration with associate Pierre Sprey on the development of
the A-10 close air support (CAS) aircraft sparked his exploration of
history. The project was Sprey’s, with Sprey consulting Boyd on
performance analysis, E-M Theory, and views on warfare in general. When
designing the A-10, Sprey had to determine what aircraft features
provided the firepower and loiter time required by ground forces, while
also granting survivability against the enemy ground fire that would
inevitably be directed against it.4The German Wehrmacht had pioneered
both the design and employment of dedicated CAS aircraft in World War
II.
loc1792-95:
From this, the inquiring mind that had developed the Aerial Attack Study
and E-M Theory again went into action. Sprey had focused on the aircraft
and tactics that made German CAS missions successful. Building on that,
Boyd, in his first year of retirement, broadened the scope to examine
German tactics and strategy in World War II, and then worked his way
back to the time of Sun Tzu as he studied history’s most successful
military commanders.6
.... snip ...
Boyd had participated in this debriefing
https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA097704
Friedrich von Mellenthin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_von_Mellenthin
Hermann Balck
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Balck
The Greatest German General No One Ever Heard Of
https://www.historynet.com/the-greatest-german-general-no-on e-ever-heard-of.htm
German General Hermann Balck and the No-Win Situation in Budapest
https://www.historynet.com/hermann-balck-no-win-situation-in -budapest.htm
other trivia, in the early 90s, Bush1 is president and Cheney is
SECDEF. Sat. photo recon analyst told white house that Saddam was
marshaling forces to invade Kuwait. White house said that Saddam would
do no such thing and proceeded to discredit the analyst. Later the
analyst informed the white house that Saddam was marshaling forces to
invade Saudi Arabia, now the white house has to choose between Saddam
(which US had been supporting in the Iran/Iraq war) and the Saudis.
https://www.amazon.com/Long-Strange-Journey-Intelligence-ebo ok/dp/B004NNV5H2/
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388068 is a reply to message #388039] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 06:36 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-10-24, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2019-10-24, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:56:43 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>>> > delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>>>
>>>> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
>>>> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>>>
>>> I've seen reports on this. Mostly they get caught, the prisoners and
>>> the ones trying it from outside.
>>
>> Simplify. Good quality catapult.
>
> A friend once built a small trebuchet. Impressive.
>
l aunched an arrow into the air, it
came to rest I know not where.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388069 is a reply to message #387773] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 06:38 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 10/24/2019 12:15 PM, JimP wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:56:43 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Drugs deliveries into prisons ... been done hasn't it? I don't think
>>> I'd fancy my chances to avoid being detected manually flying one ...
>>
>> I've seen reports on this. Mostly they get caught, the prisoners and
>> the ones trying it from outside.
>
> It's way harder to write reports on those that didn't get caught.
My example of acatapult was from real life, two drug gangs started shooting
(at each other) for possession of the 'good spot'
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388070 is a reply to message #388040] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 06:40 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 8:00:26 AM UTC-4, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On 23 Oct 2019 10:22:57 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am strating to get very cautious about drones, the sort of ones that we
>>>> here woul have. Its very hard to judge how far away you aare from
>>>> something, and people have been hurt
>>>
>>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>>
>>
>> PETA uses them to spy on farms. they make it so painful for
>> farmers, that some are simply giving up.
>
> Another unsupported assertion from Barb.
>
> Cite please?
>
>
>> Note that the side effect
>> of going out of business is the death of all the animals (which seems
>> to be contrary to what PITAists say they believe in).
>
> Why would that be a side effect?
record numbers of farmers going bust worldwide.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388071 is a reply to message #387773] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 06:42 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-10-24, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:21:26 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
>>>> would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
>>>> government to take action.
>>>
>>> What leads you to believe that criminals would obey your law? All
>>> they really have to do is bust the radio reciever. Or are you not
>>> aware that hobby drones are capable of autonomous operation?
>>
>> Suppose you could tag every drone with an unique ID, like a public PGP
>> key. And can use one for this drone especially made controller with a
>> private key the owner can't access. The drone would broadcast its ID and
>> thus is identifiable. The Government (or airport authorities) get a tool
>> at hand to shut down any drone putting others in danger.
>
> You're kidding, right?
>
>
Old, old idea is that only the good guys will use the new weapons.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388072 is a reply to message #388054] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 06:43 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:23:41 -0400
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> Suppose you could tag every drone with an unique ID,
>
> Stop right there and reflect on the fact that making a drone from
> handily obtained components is comfortably easy enough for a fairly bright
> ten year old.
>
+1. Like the invention of fire.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388073 is a reply to message #387773] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 06:45 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-24, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 10/24/2019 12:14 PM, JimP wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:57:12 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:17:13 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
>>>> > reaching the target they flew very low to deploy the bouncing bombs. The
>>>> > jet stream should not have any effect at this low altitude.
>>>>
>>>> The jet stream was a problem in Japan.
>>>>
>>>> The Dam Busters flew at 75 feet.
>>>
>>> Over water, nicht wahr?
>>
>> Yes. Over the dam reservoirs. I don't think they flew very high on the
>> way there, didn't want German radar to pick them up.
>>
> Over the reservoirs? They didn't fly from the downstream side, where
> most of the dam is exposed?
The weight of the water helped on that side. Several thousand Russian
POW's were drowned.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388074 is a reply to message #387773] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 06:50 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-25, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 10/24/2019 6:37 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> Modern drones are plastic, why would fabric and wood be better?
>>
> I'm thinking "invisible to radar", and large enough to carry a
> destructive payload (what are the US Predator drones who have radar)
> but anything that doesn't image well with radar works (if you can't
> see it, it's hard to defend against). The motor would probably be
> metal, and a little in the electronics, but the payload and flight
> surfaces nonmetallic. Sure, these days plastic probably better than
> fabric/wood.
>
> I just liked the image of a Fokker D.VII killer drone.
AFAIRead, Hanna Reitsch (sp?) had a doodlebug (V) altered so it could be
flown by a person. I wonder whay that was never developed :)
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388076 is a reply to message #388054] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 10:01 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:23:41 -0400
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> Suppose you could tag every drone with an unique ID,
>
> Stop right there and reflect on the fact that making a drone from
> handily obtained components is comfortably easy enough for a fairly bright
> ten year old.
>
I don’t claim to be an expert, but I would assume that in making your drone
the receiver would be an off-the-shelf component, and not something you’d
whip up from a few transistors and a soldering iron. Just like every
ethernet chip has a unique id, assign one to every controller and receiver.
--
Pete
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388077 is a reply to message #388071] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 10:01 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2019-10-24, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2019-10-24, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:21:26 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Drones need a way to be identified and have their controls overridden. i
>>>> > would think the incidents at Heathrow would have convinced the UK
>>>> > government to take action.
>>>>
>>>> What leads you to believe that criminals would obey your law? All
>>>> they really have to do is bust the radio reciever. Or are you not
>>>> aware that hobby drones are capable of autonomous operation?
>>>
>>> Suppose you could tag every drone with an unique ID, like a public PGP
>>> key. And can use one for this drone especially made controller with a
>>> private key the owner can't access. The drone would broadcast its ID and
>>> thus is identifiable. The Government (or airport authorities) get a tool
>>> at hand to shut down any drone putting others in danger.
>>
>> You're kidding, right?
>>
>>
>
> Old, old idea is that only the good guys will use the new weapons.
>
>
Obviously not, but some stuff would make it harder for some pimply-faced 12
year old to walk into a walmart and walk out with something capable of
bringing down a 737.
--
Pete
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388078 is a reply to message #388074] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 10:01 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2019-10-25, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 10/24/2019 6:37 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> Modern drones are plastic, why would fabric and wood be better?
>>>
>> I'm thinking "invisible to radar", and large enough to carry a
>> destructive payload (what are the US Predator drones who have radar)
>> but anything that doesn't image well with radar works (if you can't
>> see it, it's hard to defend against). The motor would probably be
>> metal, and a little in the electronics, but the payload and flight
>> surfaces nonmetallic. Sure, these days plastic probably better than
>> fabric/wood.
>>
>> I just liked the image of a Fokker D.VII killer drone.
>
> AFAIRead, Hanna Reitsch (sp?) had a doodlebug (V) altered so it could be
> flown by a person. I wonder whay that was never developed :)
>
>
Toward the end of the war the Germans were coming up with all kinds of
stuff. I think they had a piloted rocket plane intended to go after
bombers, but Hitler vetoed it because it would have been suicide flight
for the pilot.
--
Pete
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388080 is a reply to message #388070] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 10:39 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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maus <mausg@mail.com> writes:
> On 2019-10-24, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 8:00:26 AM UTC-4, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> On 23 Oct 2019 10:22:57 GMT
>>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I am strating to get very cautious about drones, the sort of ones that we
>>>> > here woul have. Its very hard to judge how far away you aare from
>>>> > something, and people have been hurt
>>>>
>>>> Just wait until autonomous drones become popular toys for illicit
>>>> delivery services, there's open source autopilot software around now.
>>>>
>>>
>>> PETA uses them to spy on farms. they make it so painful for
>>> farmers, that some are simply giving up.
>>
>> Another unsupported assertion from Barb.
>>
>> Cite please?
>>
>>
>>> Note that the side effect
>>> of going out of business is the death of all the animals (which seems
>>> to be contrary to what PITAists say they believe in).
>>
>> Why would that be a side effect?
>
> record numbers of farmers going bust worldwide.
But they're not going bust because of PETA drones.
They're going bust because of the orange buffoons trade war.
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| Re: Collins radio and Braniff Airways 1945 [message #388081 is a reply to message #387773] |
Fri, 25 October 2019 10:40 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
> On 10/24/2019 12:14 PM, JimP wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:57:12 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:17:13 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
>>>> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> > On 21 Oct 2019 21:34:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 2019-10-21, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 12:59:49 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> The Norden was designed in the, then, clear skies of the US Southwest.
>>>> >>>> They didn't work very well in the foggy and rainy skies of Europe.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I don't know for sure, but I suspect there were other factors
>>>> >>> (like the Jetstream) that the Norden didn't take into account.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Temperature, for instance. The book _The Dam Busters_ mentions
>>>> >> the difficulty in calibrating temperature probes, allowing for
>>>> >> how much of the probe was in the airstream, how fast the aircraft
>>>> >> was flying, etc.
>>>> >
>>>> > Never read about it. But wasn't it easy to find the German dams? Once
>>>> > reaching the target they flew very low to deploy the bouncing bombs. The
>>>> > jet stream should not have any effect at this low altitude.
>>>>
>>>> The jet stream was a problem in Japan.
>>>>
>>>> The Dam Busters flew at 75 feet.
>>>
>>> Over water, nicht wahr?
>>
>> Yes. Over the dam reservoirs. I don't think they flew very high on the
>> way there, didn't want German radar to pick them up.
>>
> Over the reservoirs? They didn't fly from the downstream side, where
> most of the dam is exposed?
No, they needed to lay the egg at the base of the dam on the
reservoir side.
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