| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387595 is a reply to message #387574] |
Sat, 05 October 2019 18:57   |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 12:04:44 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 3:19:02 PM UTC-6, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>
>>> AFAIK, nothing prevented him from working against organized crime
>>> except his own attitudes.
>>
>> The Mafia had photos of him cross-dressing. Hadn't you heard?
>>
>
> Nowadays, wouldnt that be trans-gender?
No, it would be cross-dressing.
Transgender is a man in a woman's body or vice versa. Cross dressing
is a man who likes to wear women's clothes. In principle it would
apply to a woman who likes to wear men's clothes but in practice
that's just considered to be personal style.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387599 is a reply to message #387582] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 04:54 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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On 2019-10-05, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
> maus <mausg@mail.com> writes:
> entry had been the decisive factor would have been tantamount to giving
> aid and comfort to the enemy.
>
> ... snip ...
>
> An alternative history is that dropping the bombs wasn't to bring
> Japanese to surrender, but to warn off the Red Army (which was within
> days of invading Japanese homeland, while US wouldn't be ready to do
> that for several more months).
>
By that time, it was welll known that the arrival of the Red Army in any country
was a thing to be avoided if possible, even that Communnists in China were
appaled at the behaviour of the Red Army in Manchuria. The Russians, with memories
of what the Germans had done in their own country during Barberossa, were
a fearsome entity and wanted vengence.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387606 is a reply to message #387589] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 14:15 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 22:59:58 +0100, Andrew Swallow
<am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 05/10/2019 22:17, JimP wrote:
>> He wanted a Second Front when the other Allies were incapable of
>> making one. And they did stop the Mermansk Run due to heavy losses
>> from German U-boats.
>
> Stalin wanted a second WESTERN front. That is a third land front.
Yes. Instead the Allies went to North Africa.
I doubt they could have handled invading Europe when he wanted them
to. And I know from everything I have read he didn't actually care
about his own military troops.
--
Jim
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387607 is a reply to message #387467] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 14:18 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 6 Oct 2019 10:01:03 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-10-05, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4 Oct 2019 21:33:24 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2019-10-04, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 4 Oct 2019 19:40:45 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >On 2019-10-04, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> >> maus <mausg@mail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>On 2019-10-03, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>I notice that the word 'Socialist' in the US is regarded with horror, whereas
>>>> >>>in Europe is is admired.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It is regarded by a relatively small subset "with horror".
>>>> >
>>>> >IME, most Americans have no idea what it means.
>>>>
>>>> Many do know, but the ones most often quoted are the ones who like to
>>>> shout their ignorance.
>>>
>>> I'm not going on quotations, but on the ones I've met. My Mother lives
>>> in the USA and I go there a lot. Three times so far this year. Admittedly,
>>> she lives in Central Pennsylvania, so consumption of neck reddener
>>> is quite high, but nonetheless.
>>
>> I have seen non-idiots get shouted down by idiots, and others. A large
>> number of Americans have never been further than the inside of the
>> county they grew up in. Thats the problem, they never encountered
>> opinions other than the ones that match their ignorance.
>
> Yep. How many Americans have a passport? 9%?? And my Mother's friends
> have mostly never been outside PA. When I pointed out that Medicare,
> Medicaid, the VA, freeways, DoD, National Parks and doubtless many
> other things are socialist, they all looked at me blankly.
Same thing happens to me. A relative with a Masters in counseling told
me its due to them being used to it being available so they don't
think of it that way.
--
Jim
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387608 is a reply to message #387607] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 16:26 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 12:19:00 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2019 10:01:03 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> Yep. How many Americans have a passport?
Did he? I see no record of his post. Actually, I've had this problem with this
poster before.
Anyways, I've seen this said about Canadians too.
So?
A passport costs money to acquire; so naturally, people only get one if they're
going to make use of it.
Flying across the Atlantic is _expensive_. For most people, a trip to Europe on
vacation, therefore, is, at best, a once-in-a-lifetime experience... if that.
To compare people who live in Canada or the United States to people who live in
Continental Europe in a naive fashion, so as to draw the conclusion that if
they're less likely to own a passport, it is because they are more insular in
their attitudes, really isn't valid.
People used to travel to the U.S. from Canada to go shopping. Now that the U.S.
slaps five-year travel bans on anyone who tries to enter the U.S. by car or on
foot that doesn't own a house (apparently they have the same problem with
Canadians as they do with Mexicans, who knew?) that may not happen as much any
more. One doesn't fly across the Atlantic for such trivial reasons.
John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387610 is a reply to message #387606] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 17:40 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On 06/10/2019 19:15, JimP wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 22:59:58 +0100, Andrew Swallow
> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 05/10/2019 22:17, JimP wrote:
>>> He wanted a Second Front when the other Allies were incapable of
>>> making one. And they did stop the Mermansk Run due to heavy losses
>>> from German U-boats.
>>
>> Stalin wanted a second WESTERN front. That is a third land front.
>
> Yes. Instead the Allies went to North Africa.
>
> I doubt they could have handled invading Europe when he wanted them
> to. And I know from everything I have read he didn't actually care
> about his own military troops.
>
> --
> Jim
>
North Africa was the first western front.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387611 is a reply to message #387606] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 17:45 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
> Yes. Instead the Allies went to North Africa.
>
> I doubt they could have handled invading Europe when he wanted them
> to. And I know from everything I have read he didn't actually care
> about his own military troops.
US had no experience and only had 13 divisions for North Africa.
Marshall would eventually put together a total of 91 divisions for all
theaters ... Africa, Pacific, Mediterranean, Europe, mid-east ...
compared to Soviets 500 divisions that were fighting the vast bulk of
German military.
This goes into a lot of D-day, including the logistics leading up to
it. It also has limited German divisions diverted to deal with D-Day and
Europe and were inexperienced and/or wounded/disabled (and having to
rely on horses for transportation)
https://www.amazon.com/Sand-Steel-Invasion-Liberation-France -ebook/dp/B07PPVG8HG/
pg19/loc992-98:
However, OB West's remaining twenty-three Bodenständige (static
position) divisions were either immobile or reserve infantry formations,
with low Kampfwert (combat effectiveness) ratings. They were assessed as
incapable of taking on offensive missions, and suitable only for limited
defence. For the latter's transportation needs, in Rundstedt's domain
there were 115,000 military horses on strength, a stark reminder of how
reliant on these creatures the German armed forces were in 1944 - by
contrast, the Allies would bring with them not a single equine. 3 A year
earlier, roughly twenty-five per cent of officers stationed in France
had fought in Russia; by 1944, this figure had almost doubled to sixty
per cent. This did not necessarily reflect a reinforcement of the west,
but a higher proportion of wounded and convalescing leaders.
pg47/loc1600-1604:
The stature of the Nazi war machine, forged in North Africa, Italy and
on the Eastern Front, was still feared in 1944, though demonstrably
hollowed out. It also helped Berlin that the Western Allies,
particularly the 21st Army Group, were also excessively cautious, which
played to the German inclination - despite their convoluted command - of
tactical speed of reaction. Finally, it also suited many Allied
commanders after the war to talk up the prowess of their opponents,
making the achievement of subduing them all the greater.
.... snip ...
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387612 is a reply to message #387608] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 18:39 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 13:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:
> On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 12:19:00 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>> On 6 Oct 2019 10:01:03 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Yep. How many Americans have a passport?
>
> Did he? I see no record of his post. Actually, I've had this problem with this
> poster before.
>
> Anyways, I've seen this said about Canadians too.
>
> So?
>
> A passport costs money to acquire; so naturally, people only get one if they're
> going to make use of it.
>
> Flying across the Atlantic is _expensive_. For most people, a trip to Europe on
> vacation, therefore, is, at best, a once-in-a-lifetime experience... if that.
Most of my co-workers take an annual vacation to either Europe or
China. It's not a once-in-a-lifetime experience for anybody with a
decent job.
However in the US one needs either a passport or a "RealID" driver's
license to fly _anywhere_ including to the next town over, on a
scheduled airline.
> To compare people who live in Canada or the United States to people who live in
> Continental Europe in a naive fashion, so as to draw the conclusion that if
> they're less likely to own a passport, it is because they are more insular in
> their attitudes, really isn't valid.
This is true. Until recently one could travel anywhere in North
America with a US driver's license. Still can with the right driver's
license.
And contrary to popular belief it is not possible drive out of North
America. There is a region of nearly impassable swamp between North
and South America with no roads, so one must take a boat or aircraft.
> People used to travel to the U.S. from Canada to go shopping. Now that the U.S.
> slaps five-year travel bans on anyone who tries to enter the U.S. by car or on
> foot that doesn't own a house (apparently they have the same problem with
> Canadians as they do with Mexicans, who knew?) that may not happen as much any
> more.
I think the "anyone" is an overstatement.
> One doesn't fly across the Atlantic for such trivial reasons.
>
> John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387614 is a reply to message #387612] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 19:25 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 4:39:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> And contrary to popular belief it is not possible drive out of North
> America. There is a region of nearly impassable swamp between North
> and South America with no roads, so one must take a boat or aircraft.
What, no ferries to make the Pan-American Highway useful?
John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387615 is a reply to message #387614] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 19:29 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 5:25:02 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 4:39:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> And contrary to popular belief it is not possible drive out of North
>> America. There is a region of nearly impassable swamp between North
>> and South America with no roads, so one must take a boat or aircraft.
> What, no ferries to make the Pan-American Highway useful?
Ah, I see there *is* one...
https://www.morebikes.co.uk/15047/panama-ferry-cheaper-way-c ross-darien-gap/
but it's not really particularly great; expensive and difficult to use.
John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387616 is a reply to message #387614] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 21:07 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 16:25:01 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:
> On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 4:39:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> And contrary to popular belief it is not possible drive out of North
>> America. There is a region of nearly impassable swamp between North
>> and South America with no roads, so one must take a boat or aircraft.
>
> What, no ferries to make the Pan-American Highway useful?
Nope. There was talk of one for a while but it seems to have never
actually materialized.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387617 is a reply to message #387615] |
Sun, 06 October 2019 21:19 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 16:29:10 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:
> On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 5:25:02 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 4:39:30 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>> And contrary to popular belief it is not possible drive out of North
>>> America. There is a region of nearly impassable swamp between North
>>> and South America with no roads, so one must take a boat or aircraft.
>
>> What, no ferries to make the Pan-American Highway useful?
>
> Ah, I see there *is* one...
>
> https://www.morebikes.co.uk/15047/panama-ferry-cheaper-way-c ross-darien-gap/
>
> but it's not really particularly great; expensive and difficult to use.
You might want to read up a bit more on that. That's the infamous
Ferry XPress that ran irregularly for a couple of years and shut down.
Most people who are traveling to south america with a car just rent a
container in Panama and travel with it on the ship. If you have a
motorcycle it's actually cheaper to fly it than surface-ship it.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387620 is a reply to message #387608] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 09:20 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
> On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 12:19:00 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>> On 6 Oct 2019 10:01:03 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Yep. How many Americans have a passport?
>
> Did he? I see no record of his post. Actually, I've had this problem with this
> poster before.
Did he what? Did you elide more of the post you responded to than you should have?
>
> Anyways, I've seen this said about Canadians too.
>
> So?
>
> A passport costs money to acquire; so naturally, people only get one if they're
> going to make use of it.
>
> Flying across the Atlantic is _expensive_.
Have you flown Norwegian lately? You can fly to europe
from the east coast cheaper than flying to california.
For most people, a trip to Europe on
> vacation, therefore, is, at best, a once-in-a-lifetime experience... if that.
That was true 25 years ago, not so much now.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387622 is a reply to message #387620] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 10:29 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 7:20:03 AM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> On 6 Oct 2019 10:01:03 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Yep. How many Americans have a passport?
>> Did he? I see no record of his post. Actually, I've had this problem with this
>> poster before.
> Did he what? Did you elide more of the post you responded to than you should have?
Did he write "Yep. How many Americans have a passport?"... I can't find the
posting that was quoted.
John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387624 is a reply to message #387611] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 11:29 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-06, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>> Yes. Instead the Allies went to North Africa.
>>
>> I doubt they could have handled invading Europe when he wanted them
>> to. And I know from everything I have read he didn't actually care
>> about his own military troops.
>
German book on Normandy I read years ago had it that many 'German' troops
in Normandy in 1944 were actually 'hilfeGewillige(sp)?' from Eastern Europe,
with SS troops from the Eastern Front to hold the front together.
Book ,from memory, 'Sie Kommen'
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387625 is a reply to message #387608] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 11:33 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-06, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 12:19:00 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>> On 6 Oct 2019 10:01:03 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Yep. How many Americans have a passport?
>
> their attitudes, really isn't valid.
>
> People used to travel to the U.S. from Canada to go shopping. Now that the U.S.
> slaps five-year travel bans on anyone who tries to enter the U.S. by car or on
> foot that doesn't own a house (apparently they have the same problem with
> Canadians as they do with Mexicans, who knew?) that may not happen as much any
> more. One doesn't fly across the Atlantic for such trivial reasons.
>
> John Savard
Passports are common in Ireland, We had an attempt recently to bring in
identity cards, but that hads collapsed, I have to bring my passport to
deal with the bank now
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387627 is a reply to message #387610] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 12:10 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 22:40:05 +0100, Andrew Swallow
<am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 06/10/2019 19:15, JimP wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 22:59:58 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On 05/10/2019 22:17, JimP wrote:
>>>> He wanted a Second Front when the other Allies were incapable of
>>>> making one. And they did stop the Mermansk Run due to heavy losses
>>>> from German U-boats.
>>>
>>> Stalin wanted a second WESTERN front. That is a third land front.
>>
>> Yes. Instead the Allies went to North Africa.
>>
>> I doubt they could have handled invading Europe when he wanted them
>> to. And I know from everything I have read he didn't actually care
>> about his own military troops.
>>
>>
> North Africa was the first western front.
From everything I have read, Stalin didn't see it that way.
--
Jim
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387629 is a reply to message #387582] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 13:27 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 4:16:25 PM UTC-4, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> Roosevelt apparently didn't believe he could beat Japan w/o Stalin's
> help and had deal with Stalin to come in against Japan after Germany
> had been defeated.
Not "apparently". The evidence was very strong that the war
against Japan would be bloody. FDR's generals felt likewise.
So getting Soviet help would reduce American casualties.
> The War Was Won Before Hiroshima--And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb
> Knew It
> https://www.thenation.com/article/why-the-us-really-bombed-h iroshima/
> Indeed, it would have been surprising if they had: Despite the terrible
> concentrated power of atomic weapons, the firebombing of Tokyo earlier
> in 1945 and the destruction of numerous Japanese cities by conventional
> bombing had killed far more people. The Navy Museum acknowledges what
> many historians have long known: It was only with the entry of the
> Soviet Union's Red Army into the war two days after the bombing of
> Hiroshima that the Japanese moved to finally surrender. Japan was used
> to losing cities to American bombing; what their military leaders feared
> more was the destruction of the country's military by an all-out Red
> Army assault.
Nope.
The advantage of the atomic bomb was its shock value--that only a
single bomb could do so much destruction each and every time it
was used. The allies showed they had multiple bombs and were
willing to use them.
The Japanese record shows the emperor was stunned by the multiple
bombs and was a big factor in their desire to surrender. The
Soviet invasion was a factor, too, but the bomb most certainly
played a major role.
> An alternative history is that dropping the bombs wasn't to bring
> Japanese to surrender, but to warn off the Red Army (which was within
> days of invading Japanese homeland, while US wouldn't be ready to do
> that for several more months).
No evidence to support that discredited theory.
More important was the mindset in the decision to utilize the bomb.
The Allies had been in a bloody war against Japan with little
sign of ending. The bomb was another weapon to end a horrible
war and desirable terms.
Evidence before and after supported the decision.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387630 is a reply to message #387621] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 13:36 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 9:20:41 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 13:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>
>>
>> However in the US one needs either a passport or a "RealID" driver's
>> license to fly _anywhere_ including to the next town over, on a
>> scheduled airline.
>
> Not until October 1, 2020.
These ID requirements are crazy and frustrating.
Personally, I can't help but question the need for all the security.
They say it all goes back to 9/11, but I believe those attackers
flew under their own names.
I hate to be paranoid, but sometimes I do wonder if the government--
or perhaps large corporations--are interested in tracking the travels
of people. For the private sector, I can definitely see insurance
companies and banks looking to contain fraud, and large employers
wanting to track their employees. I used to think the FBI/CIA
didn't care about everyday folks, but lately I'm not so sure,
especially in modern politics.
The first few times I flew I paid cash (didn't have a credit card)
and had no ID (didn't have any). Gave the airline my name
and it was ok. The world didn't come to an end.
Now they to track me even if I ride a local transit bus.
Discouraging cash fares, pushing electronic cards.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387631 is a reply to message #387627] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 13:39 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 12:11:56 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
> From everything I have read, Stalin didn't see it that way.
Stalin was trying to arrange things to his own advantage, regardless
of the reality or needs of other countries. He conveniently forgot
that he paired up with Germany and enthusiastically supported them,
even denying they invaded his country. He was never at fault.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387638 is a reply to message #387630] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 15:23 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:36:57 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 9:20:41 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 13:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>
>>>
>>> However in the US one needs either a passport or a "RealID" driver's
>>> license to fly _anywhere_ including to the next town over, on a
>>> scheduled airline.
>>
>> Not until October 1, 2020.
>
> These ID requirements are crazy and frustrating.
I was at a large science fiction convention in 1993, over 8,000
attendees.
There was a display board outside the entrance to the part of the
convention center the convention had rented. On that dislay board were
counterfeit member badges.
Some obviously counterfeit, 8-pin dot matrix. The ones given out by
the convention were professionaly done on laser printers.
We couldn't tell that some were counterfeit. The security guard,
professional, told us there were differences. My friends and I
couldn't see them.
So, my opinion is that these new IDs are just a feel good. That don't
actually accomplish anything.
--
Jim
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387639 is a reply to message #387631] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 15:25 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:39:27 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 12:11:56 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>
>> From everything I have read, Stalin didn't see it that way.
>
> Stalin was trying to arrange things to his own advantage, regardless
> of the reality or needs of other countries. He conveniently forgot
> that he paired up with Germany and enthusiastically supported them,
> even denying they invaded his country. He was never at fault.
A recent documentary I saw on American Heroes Channel interviewed
Russians who apparently did research on that time. He spent days drunk
out at his dacha because he couldn't believe Operation Barbarossa had
happened.
--
Jim
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387640 is a reply to message #387630] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 17:00 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-07, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> I hate to be paranoid, but sometimes I do wonder if the government--
> or perhaps large corporations--are interested in tracking the travels
> of people. For the private sector, I can definitely see insurance
> companies and banks looking to contain fraud, and large employers
> wanting to track their employees. I used to think the FBI/CIA
> didn't care about everyday folks, but lately I'm not so sure,
> especially in modern politics.
I wonder what George Orwell would think if he were around to
see that Big Brother turned out to be Big Business. (Mind you,
Big Government is eagerly along for the ride.)
Recently I saw a photograph of Meng Wanzhou, captioned as wearing
a tracking device. The first thing I noticed was the ubiquitous
smartphone in her hand. Oh - and an electronic ankle bracelet.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ "Alexa, define 'bugging'."
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387644 is a reply to message #387624] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 17:34 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2019-10-06, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Yes. Instead the Allies went to North Africa.
>>>
>>> I doubt they could have handled invading Europe when he wanted them
>>> to. And I know from everything I have read he didn't actually care
>>> about his own military troops.
>>
>
>
> German book on Normandy I read years ago had it that many 'German' troops
> in Normandy in 1944 were actually 'hilfeGewillige(sp)?' from Eastern Europe,
> with SS troops from the Eastern Front to hold the front together.
>
> Book ,from memory, 'Sie Kommen'
>
Yes, I read that too. If given the opportunity to surrender they did so
happily. On the other hand the book I’m reading now talked about the
Russians and Ukrainians that fought with the Wehrmacht. Often they were
captured Red Army soldiers who switched sides. This author says they fought
well, but, of course, if they surrendered or were captured by the commies
it would not have gone well.
--
Pete
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387645 is a reply to message #387629] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 17:34 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 4:16:25 PM UTC-4, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>
>> Roosevelt apparently didn't believe he could beat Japan w/o Stalin's
>> help and had deal with Stalin to come in against Japan after Germany
>> had been defeated.
>
> Not "apparently". The evidence was very strong that the war
> against Japan would be bloody. FDR's generals felt likewise.
> So getting Soviet help would reduce American casualties.
But of course that didn’t happen. We prioritized the ETO partly to help
Stalin, but then when the Germans were beaten he did nothing more than grab
a few pieces of territory for himself, including North Korea.
>
>
>
>> The War Was Won Before Hiroshima--And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb
>> Knew It
>> https://www.thenation.com/article/why-the-us-really-bombed-h iroshima/
>> Indeed, it would have been surprising if they had: Despite the terrible
>> concentrated power of atomic weapons, the firebombing of Tokyo earlier
>> in 1945 and the destruction of numerous Japanese cities by conventional
>> bombing had killed far more people. The Navy Museum acknowledges what
>> many historians have long known: It was only with the entry of the
>> Soviet Union's Red Army into the war two days after the bombing of
>> Hiroshima that the Japanese moved to finally surrender. Japan was used
>> to losing cities to American bombing; what their military leaders feared
>> more was the destruction of the country's military by an all-out Red
>> Army assault.
>
>
> Nope.
>
> The advantage of the atomic bomb was its shock value--that only a
> single bomb could do so much destruction each and every time it
> was used. The allies showed they had multiple bombs and were
> willing to use them.
>
> The Japanese record shows the emperor was stunned by the multiple
> bombs and was a big factor in their desire to surrender. The
> Soviet invasion was a factor, too, but the bomb most certainly
> played a major role.
>
>
>
>> An alternative history is that dropping the bombs wasn't to bring
>> Japanese to surrender, but to warn off the Red Army (which was within
>> days of invading Japanese homeland, while US wouldn't be ready to do
>> that for several more months).
>
> No evidence to support that discredited theory.
>
Never heard i, but it sounds fanciful.
--
Pete
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387646 is a reply to message #387639] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 17:34 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:39:27 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 12:11:56 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>>
>>> From everything I have read, Stalin didn't see it that way.
>>
>> Stalin was trying to arrange things to his own advantage, regardless
>> of the reality or needs of other countries. He conveniently forgot
>> that he paired up with Germany and enthusiastically supported them,
>> even denying they invaded his country. He was never at fault.
>
> A recent documentary I saw on American Heroes Channel interviewed
> Russians who apparently did research on that time. He spent days drunk
> out at his dacha because he couldn't believe Operation Barbarossa had
> happened.
>
But apparently one of the reasons the Germans invaded when they did is that
the Russians would have attacked them shortly.
--
Pete
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387649 is a reply to message #387646] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 19:44 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 3:34:11 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
> But apparently one of the reasons the Germans invaded when they did is that
> the Russians would have attacked them shortly.
Really? I thought Russia was very happy to be at peace with Germany, and had no
intent to renege on the peace between them on its own account.
John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387650 is a reply to message #387638] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 19:47 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 1:24:45 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
> So, my opinion is that these new IDs are just a feel good. That don't
> actually accomplish anything.
Even the earlier version of RealID, that no longer qualifies, had a dense bar code
on the licenses. That would reference a record on a Federal computer, and however
well I might print a fake card, I couldn't tamper with what was inside that
computer... hopefully. So it is a secure identification.
John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387653 is a reply to message #387637] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 19:59 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 11:29:06 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 9:20:41 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 13:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>
>>>
>>> However in the US one needs either a passport or a "RealID" driver's
>>> license to fly _anywhere_ including to the next town over, on a
>>> scheduled airline.
>>
>> Not until October 1, 2020.
>
> And despite all the hoopla, we have this:
> https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/passenger-boards-delta-fl ight-without-ticket-id/index.html
It's not security, it's security _theater_.
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387654 is a reply to message #387629] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 20:01 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:27:51 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 4:16:25 PM UTC-4, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>
>> Roosevelt apparently didn't believe he could beat Japan w/o Stalin's
>> help and had deal with Stalin to come in against Japan after Germany
>> had been defeated.
>
> Not "apparently". The evidence was very strong that the war
> against Japan would be bloody. FDR's generals felt likewise.
> So getting Soviet help would reduce American casualties.
>
>
>
>> The War Was Won Before Hiroshima--And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb
>> Knew It
>> https://www.thenation.com/article/why-the-us-really-bombed-h iroshima/
>> Indeed, it would have been surprising if they had: Despite the terrible
>> concentrated power of atomic weapons, the firebombing of Tokyo earlier
>> in 1945 and the destruction of numerous Japanese cities by conventional
>> bombing had killed far more people. The Navy Museum acknowledges what
>> many historians have long known: It was only with the entry of the
>> Soviet Union's Red Army into the war two days after the bombing of
>> Hiroshima that the Japanese moved to finally surrender. Japan was used
>> to losing cities to American bombing; what their military leaders feared
>> more was the destruction of the country's military by an all-out Red
>> Army assault.
>
>
> Nope.
>
> The advantage of the atomic bomb was its shock value--that only a
> single bomb could do so much destruction each and every time it
> was used. The allies showed they had multiple bombs and were
> willing to use them.
>
> The Japanese record shows the emperor was stunned by the multiple
> bombs and was a big factor in their desire to surrender. The
> Soviet invasion was a factor, too, but the bomb most certainly
> played a major role.
>
>
>
>> An alternative history is that dropping the bombs wasn't to bring
>> Japanese to surrender, but to warn off the Red Army (which was within
>> days of invading Japanese homeland, while US wouldn't be ready to do
>> that for several more months).
>
> No evidence to support that discredited theory.
With the aid of what Navy would the Russians be invading the Japanese
homeland? Or were they just going to swim for it?
> More important was the mindset in the decision to utilize the bomb.
> The Allies had been in a bloody war against Japan with little
> sign of ending. The bomb was another weapon to end a horrible
> war and desirable terms.
>
> Evidence before and after supported the decision.
>
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387664 is a reply to message #387654] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 23:07 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 6:01:10 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> With the aid of what Navy would the Russians be invading the Japanese
> homeland? Or were they just going to swim for it?
Didn't the Russians have a Navy at the time of World War II? (Or the Great
Patriotic War, as they call it.)
John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387665 is a reply to message #387664] |
Mon, 07 October 2019 23:08 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 9:07:33 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 6:01:10 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> With the aid of what Navy would the Russians be invading the Japanese
>> homeland? Or were they just going to swim for it?
> Didn't the Russians have a Navy at the time of World War II? (Or the Great
> Patriotic War, as they call it.)
....also, there is the option of using the air force and parachutes instead.
John Savard
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387669 is a reply to message #387630] |
Tue, 08 October 2019 04:03 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:36:57 -0700 (PDT)
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> I hate to be paranoid, but sometimes I do wonder if the government--
> or perhaps large corporations--are interested in tracking the travels
> of people.
Once I was asked, by US immigration, about my visits to South East
Asia. This came as some surprise since I have never been anywhere in Asia.
They held me up for some hours before letting me into the country.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387670 is a reply to message #387646] |
Tue, 08 October 2019 05:42 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-07, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:39:27 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 12:11:56 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>>>
>>>> From everything I have read, Stalin didn't see it that way.
>>>
>>> Stalin was trying to arrange things to his own advantage, regardless
>>> of the reality or needs of other countries. He conveniently forgot
>>> that he paired up with Germany and enthusiastically supported them,
>>> even denying they invaded his country. He was never at fault.
>>
>> A recent documentary I saw on American Heroes Channel interviewed
>> Russians who apparently did research on that time. He spent days drunk
>> out at his dacha because he couldn't believe Operation Barbarossa had
>> happened.
>>
>
> But apparently one of the reasons the Germans invaded when they did is that
> the Russians would have attacked them shortly.
>
That was, and is, a connstant neo-nazi justification.
One can imagine stalin in his dacha in shock.... "What, Hitler is a mad liar.
Does he not know that is my part!"
Its only a few years ago that the Russians admitted that it was they that
attacked Finland in 1939.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387671 is a reply to message #387669] |
Tue, 08 October 2019 05:44 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:36:57 -0700 (PDT)
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> I hate to be paranoid, but sometimes I do wonder if the government--
>> or perhaps large corporations--are interested in tracking the travels
>> of people.
>
> Once I was asked, by US immigration, about my visits to South East
> Asia. This came as some surprise since I have never been anywhere in Asia.
> They held me up for some hours before letting me into the country.
>
Famously, US immigration has no sense of humour.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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| Re: Profit propaganda ads witch-hunt era [message #387672 is a reply to message #387644] |
Tue, 08 October 2019 05:48 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-10-07, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-10-06, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Yes. Instead the Allies went to North Africa.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt they could have handled invading Europe when he wanted them
>>>> to. And I know from everything I have read he didn't actually care
>>>> about his own military troops.
>>>
>>
>>
>> German book on Normandy I read years ago had it that many 'German' troops
>> in Normandy in 1944 were actually 'hilfeGewillige(sp)?' from Eastern Europe,
>> with SS troops from the Eastern Front to hold the front together.
>>
>> Book ,from memory, 'Sie Kommen'
>>
>
> Yes, I read that too. If given the opportunity to surrender they did so
> happily. On the other hand the book I’m reading now talked about the
> Russians and Ukrainians that fought with the Wehrmacht. Often they were
> captured Red Army soldiers who switched sides. This author says they fought
> well, but, of course, if they surrendered or were captured by the commies
> it would not have gone well.
>
AFAIK, they are digging up mass graves of liquidated UStashi in Yugoslavia
now, killed in 1945, the women campfollowers obviously raped. Not inspiring.
The red army people who 'turned' had a chice, either starve to death in the
camps, or turn.
--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
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