| Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385427] |
Thu, 25 July 2019 16:37  |
Pat
Messages: 20
Registered: April 2013
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I'm looking for the most popular Applesoft Basic book. I know a lot of the reference manuals can be found on the internet, but I'd like something to be able to read at night in bed.
What do you guys think that would be?
My knowledge is, I'd say beginner, but I did write a Draw Poker 5 card program for my BBS back in the mid 80s when I was a teenager. I could never figure out how to determine you had a Full House, instead of just a pair, or 3 of a kind. :)
I'd like to get back in the hobby and write some BASIC games. (literally and figuratively)
The cheapest one on Ebay is the green cover Apple II Basic Programming reference manual. But do those cover Calls, Peeks and Pokes also?
-Pat
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| Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385444 is a reply to message #385427] |
Fri, 26 July 2019 17:00  |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395
Registered: October 2012
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The way to program a full house is to first sort the cards, then check for
(card1 = card2 = card3) and ( card4= card5)
or
(card1 = card2) and (card3 = card4 = card5)
The best applesoft learning manuals are the Apple technical reference manuals. They shouls describe how each applesoft roken works and how its used
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385447 is a reply to message #385444] |
Fri, 26 July 2019 19:29 |
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Originally posted by: Denis Molony
On Saturday, 27 July 2019 07:00:05 UTC+10, I am Rob wrote:
> The way to program a full house is to first sort the cards, then check for
>
> (card1 = card2 = card3) and ( card4= card5)
>
> or
>
> (card1 = card2) and (card3 = card4 = card5)
>
>
> The best applesoft learning manuals are the Apple technical reference manuals. They shouls describe how each applesoft roken works and how its used
You can remove the middle card from both of those equality tests, because they are in sorted order.
card1 = card2 and card 3 = card 5
or
card1 = card3 and card 4 = card5
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385455 is a reply to message #385453] |
Sat, 27 July 2019 00:10 |
Pat
Messages: 20
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 9:25:28 PM UTC-6, Tom Lake wrote:
> On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 5:03:09 PM UTC-4, I am Rob wrote:
>> That should be token, not roken
>
> But I want a list of rokens! :)
LOL thanks so much guys! And thanks for the programming help.
I got both: "The Applesoft Tutorial" and "The Applesoft BAsic Programmer's Reference Manual" (For //e).
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385486 is a reply to message #385455] |
Sat, 27 July 2019 21:11 |
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Originally posted by: James Davis
On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 9:10:38 PM UTC-7, PinFixin wrote:
> On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 9:25:28 PM UTC-6, Tom Lake wrote:
>> On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 5:03:09 PM UTC-4, I am Rob wrote:
>>> That should be token, not roken
>>
>> But I want a list of rokens! :)
>
> LOL thanks so much guys! And thanks for the programming help.
>
> I got both: "The Applesoft Tutorial" and "The Applesoft BAsic Programmer's Reference Manual" (For //e).
Both of those are better used in front of an Apple II, not in bed. In fact, that is probably true of all AppleSoft books.
I also recommend "Call-A.P.P.L.E. In Depth: All About AppleSoft" (to become an expert in the language) and other books about "B.A.S.I.C." in general. A good one for learning the "Principles of Good Programming" is "BASIC WITH STYLE, PROGRAMMING PROVERBS" by Paul Nagin and Henry f. Ledgard (published by Hayden Books), which teaches "Top-Down" programming (or program-development).
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385493 is a reply to message #385486] |
Sat, 27 July 2019 22:33 |
KP
Messages: 62
Registered: December 2012
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The introduction to Coleco SmartBASIC, which was actually a knockoff of Applesoft BASIC (hence, the Coleco computer bore the name "Adam," because Coleco intended that it would "take a bite out of Apple"), was how I began learning BASIC, and it remains one of the best introductions to BASIC that I have worked through. I also like "A Touch of Applesoft BASIC," which I believe Apple shipped as the new BASIC tutorial with the IIgs.
The one proviso in using the Coleco manual with Applesoft is that the Coleco ADAM used a Z80 processor, so all of the PEEK, POKE, and CALL addresses are completely different. But otherwise, the language is nearly a carbon copy of Applesoft. It even uses the bracket prompt, HOME to clear the screen, GR/HGR/HGR2 for graphics, INIT to format a disk, etc.
The one proviso in using A Touch of Applesoft BASIC is that it assumes that you are using BASIC.SYSTEM in ProDOS, so all of the system commands assume ProDOS as the OS. The young me thought that my computer was broken because "CAT" did not display a catalog of files; it took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out that I was using DOS 3.3 and the CATALOG command is not abbreviated in DOS 3.3.
On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 9:10:38 PM UTC-7, PinFixin wrote:
>> On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 9:25:28 PM UTC-6, Tom Lake wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 26, 2019 at 5:03:09 PM UTC-4, I am Rob wrote:
>>>> That should be token, not roken
>>>
>>> But I want a list of rokens! :)
>>
>> LOL thanks so much guys! And thanks for the programming help.
>>
>> I got both: "The Applesoft Tutorial" and "The Applesoft BAsic Programmer's Reference Manual" (For //e).
>
> Both of those are better used in front of an Apple II, not in bed. In fact, that is probably true of all AppleSoft books.
>
> I also recommend "Call-A.P.P.L.E. In Depth: All About AppleSoft" (to become an expert in the language) and other books about "B.A.S.I.C." in general.. A good one for learning the "Principles of Good Programming" is "BASIC WITH STYLE, PROGRAMMING PROVERBS" by Paul Nagin and Henry f. Ledgard (published by Hayden Books), which teaches "Top-Down" programming (or program-development).
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385499 is a reply to message #385493] |
Sun, 28 July 2019 09:43 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 8:33:06 PM UTC-6, KP wrote:
> The introduction to Coleco SmartBASIC, which was actually a knockoff of Applesoft BASIC (hence, the Coleco computer bore the name "Adam," because Coleco intended that it would "take a bite out of Apple"), was how I began learning BASIC, and it remains one of the best introductions to BASIC that I have worked through. I also like "A Touch of Applesoft BASIC," which I believe Apple shipped as the new BASIC tutorial with the IIgs.
>
> The one proviso in using the Coleco manual with Applesoft is that the Coleco ADAM used a Z80 processor, so all of the PEEK, POKE, and CALL addresses are completely different. But otherwise, the language is nearly a carbon copy of Applesoft. It even uses the bracket prompt, HOME to clear the screen, GR/HGR/HGR2 for graphics, INIT to format a disk, etc.
>
> The one proviso in using A Touch of Applesoft BASIC is that it assumes that you are using BASIC.SYSTEM in ProDOS, so all of the system commands assume ProDOS as the OS. The young me thought that my computer was broken because "CAT" did not display a catalog of files; it took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out that I was using DOS 3.3 and the CATALOG command is not abbreviated in DOS 3.3.
It was the same for me for the Laser 128. Its technical reference manual had a very good and in-depth description of every applesoft command.
But even then, nothing beat the trial-and-error of listing and running a program.
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385510 is a reply to message #385499] |
Sun, 28 July 2019 21:50 |
KP
Messages: 62
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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YES. Absolutely, absolutely, yes, a thousand times over. Those public domain software collections with piles of miscellaneous programs that other people wrote were absolute gold for learning to program. The best way to learn how to program, as to learn nearly anything in life, is to watch others do it well.
On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 9:43:16 AM UTC-4, I am Rob wrote:
> On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 8:33:06 PM UTC-6, KP wrote:
>> The introduction to Coleco SmartBASIC, which was actually a knockoff of Applesoft BASIC (hence, the Coleco computer bore the name "Adam," because Coleco intended that it would "take a bite out of Apple"), was how I began learning BASIC, and it remains one of the best introductions to BASIC that I have worked through. I also like "A Touch of Applesoft BASIC," which I believe Apple shipped as the new BASIC tutorial with the IIgs.
>>
>> The one proviso in using the Coleco manual with Applesoft is that the Coleco ADAM used a Z80 processor, so all of the PEEK, POKE, and CALL addresses are completely different. But otherwise, the language is nearly a carbon copy of Applesoft. It even uses the bracket prompt, HOME to clear the screen, GR/HGR/HGR2 for graphics, INIT to format a disk, etc.
>>
>> The one proviso in using A Touch of Applesoft BASIC is that it assumes that you are using BASIC.SYSTEM in ProDOS, so all of the system commands assume ProDOS as the OS. The young me thought that my computer was broken because "CAT" did not display a catalog of files; it took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out that I was using DOS 3.3 and the CATALOG command is not abbreviated in DOS 3.3.
>
>
> It was the same for me for the Laser 128. Its technical reference manual had a very good and in-depth description of every applesoft command.
>
> But even then, nothing beat the trial-and-error of listing and running a program.
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385511 is a reply to message #385510] |
Sun, 28 July 2019 22:31 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-6, KP wrote:
> YES. Absolutely, absolutely, yes, a thousand times over. Those public domain software collections with piles of miscellaneous programs that other people wrote were absolute gold for learning to program. The best way to learn how to program, as to learn nearly anything in life, is to watch others do it well.
>
>
> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 9:43:16 AM UTC-4, I am Rob wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 8:33:06 PM UTC-6, KP wrote:
>>> The introduction to Coleco SmartBASIC, which was actually a knockoff of Applesoft BASIC (hence, the Coleco computer bore the name "Adam," because Coleco intended that it would "take a bite out of Apple"), was how I began learning BASIC, and it remains one of the best introductions to BASIC that I have worked through. I also like "A Touch of Applesoft BASIC," which I believe Apple shipped as the new BASIC tutorial with the IIgs.
>>>
>>> The one proviso in using the Coleco manual with Applesoft is that the Coleco ADAM used a Z80 processor, so all of the PEEK, POKE, and CALL addresses are completely different. But otherwise, the language is nearly a carbon copy of Applesoft. It even uses the bracket prompt, HOME to clear the screen, GR/HGR/HGR2 for graphics, INIT to format a disk, etc.
>>>
>>> The one proviso in using A Touch of Applesoft BASIC is that it assumes that you are using BASIC.SYSTEM in ProDOS, so all of the system commands assume ProDOS as the OS. The young me thought that my computer was broken because "CAT" did not display a catalog of files; it took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out that I was using DOS 3.3 and the CATALOG command is not abbreviated in DOS 3.3.
>>
>>
>> It was the same for me for the Laser 128. Its technical reference manual had a very good and in-depth description of every applesoft command.
>>
>> But even then, nothing beat the trial-and-error of listing and running a program.
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385512 is a reply to message #385510] |
Sun, 28 July 2019 22:32 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-6, KP wrote:
> YES. Absolutely, absolutely, yes, a thousand times over. Those public domain software collections with piles of miscellaneous programs that other people wrote were absolute gold for learning to program. The best way to learn how to program, as to learn nearly anything in life, is to watch others do it well.
And a lot of times make the same mistakes they made.
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385513 is a reply to message #385512] |
Sun, 28 July 2019 23:56 |
KP
Messages: 62
Registered: December 2012
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Member |
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If we can't learn from our mistakes then we will never learn at all.
If we can learn from both our own mistakes and the mistakes of others, then we may have a real shot at picking up a little wisdom, given enough time and enough mistakes.
On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 10:32:49 PM UTC-4, I am Rob wrote:
> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-6, KP wrote:
>> YES. Absolutely, absolutely, yes, a thousand times over. Those public domain software collections with piles of miscellaneous programs that other people wrote were absolute gold for learning to program. The best way to learn how to program, as to learn nearly anything in life, is to watch others do it well.
>
>
> And a lot of times make the same mistakes they made.
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385523 is a reply to message #385513] |
Mon, 29 July 2019 13:01 |
Pat
Messages: 20
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 9:56:04 PM UTC-6, KP wrote:
> If we can't learn from our mistakes then we will never learn at all.
>
> If we can learn from both our own mistakes and the mistakes of others, then we may have a real shot at picking up a little wisdom, given enough time and enough mistakes.
>
>
> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 10:32:49 PM UTC-4, I am Rob wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-6, KP wrote:
>>> YES. Absolutely, absolutely, yes, a thousand times over. Those public domain software collections with piles of miscellaneous programs that other people wrote were absolute gold for learning to program. The best way to learn how to program, as to learn nearly anything in life, is to watch others do it well.
>>
>>
>> And a lot of times make the same mistakes they made.
That is the way I got through most of my poker program when I was a kid. I had a couple friends that along with Basic, they knew assembly language so that helped a lot.
As far as me reading the books in bed, it's how I'm remembering how to use the computer anyways. It seems as though, when I remember how to do one thing, two or three others come back to me.
-Pat
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385527 is a reply to message #385427] |
Mon, 29 July 2019 14:45 |
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Originally posted by: Tom Porter
My favorite Applesoft reference is The Applesoft BAsic Programmer's Reference Manual, the later one with the IIC on the cover. It is a VERY good book. However, personally I have a bunch of combination Text files that have been added to (major lists available online).. has all the peeks/pokes/calls/tips/tricks that have been posted on the internet the last 20 years, and if I really need something, I just 'search' for it in those text files. Its dozens of times faster to find something, and most of the time I can have that text file right next to the window I'm programming in, sometimes can even copy and paste, or just make a quick mod then paste into the program. I have a bunch of Applesoft and ASM reference books, but rarely now look at them, as these "files" are superior in almost every way.
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385528 is a reply to message #385427] |
Mon, 29 July 2019 15:02 |
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Originally posted by: Tom Porter
It says you are starting to get back in the hobby... here are 'some' of my best files, the information in general isn't mine, but stuff just collected, its 'far' from all of it. The files PEEK,POKES,CALL,NOTES and X_APPLE_INFORMATION.3.19 are the 'most useful' in general, but there are also things for soft-switches and memory management, organize these and put them in a little archive of apple info you build for yourself, if you are serious into getting back into programming!
(*The whole archive would be 600mb, and too large, these are just highlights.)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tc6yc3hwe6wz3pl/Apple%20INFO%2007. 29.19.zip?dl=0
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| Re: Discussion on Best Applesoft Basic book [message #385536 is a reply to message #385528] |
Tue, 30 July 2019 10:47 |
Pat
Messages: 20
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:02:13 PM UTC-6, Tom Porter wrote:
> It says you are starting to get back in the hobby... here are 'some' of my best files, the information in general isn't mine, but stuff just collected, its 'far' from all of it. The files PEEK,POKES,CALL,NOTES and X_APPLE_INFORMATION.3.19 are the 'most useful' in general, but there are also things for soft-switches and memory management, organize these and put them in a little archive of apple info you build for yourself, if you are serious into getting back into programming!
> (*The whole archive would be 600mb, and too large, these are just highlights.)
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tc6yc3hwe6wz3pl/Apple%20INFO%2007. 29.19.zip?dl=0
I actually have never used any peeks, pokes, or calls, and they do look extremely helpful.
Still waiting for my books, the ebay sellers seem to be taking a while shipping.
-Pat
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