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Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384761 is a reply to message #384756] Wed, 03 July 2019 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:32:44 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> Oh, it is complicated.
>>> On the one hand, if bombing Pearl Harbor had consequences for Japan, why shouldn't
>>> aggression against certain black people have consequences for the United States?
>>> On the other hand, given that the North shed its blood to end slavery,
>>> why should it owe black Americans anything more?
>>> Despite slavery, from the beginning, the United States was a democracy, and
>>> therefore had the capacity to see its errors and correct them.
>>>
>>
>> The problem is that it’s the _absence_ of slavery that’s the aberration.
>> Slavery was nearly universal around the world until the blink of an eye
>> ago. The USA may have been among the last developed countries to abolish
>> slavery, but not by much. Many people of all races alive today probably
>> had ancestors who were slaves.
>
> Some Native American tribes had slaves, but from what I have read most
> tribes let the slave work up in their society. Some did.
>
>> I agree about “reparations.” Over 300,000 young mostly white men died to
>> free the ancestors of the people who now seem to believe the country owes
>> them something more.
>
> I do find it fascinating that two groups of white people, Spanish
> descendants and England/Frence descendants, argue over whose land it
> is... when they took it by disease, force, and get someone drunk to
> sign a land deal. Two thieves arguing over whom the Western hemisphere
> belongs to, when it belongs to neither.
>
> Yeah, it all happened in the past.
>

We’ve been thru this before. Almost every piece of occupied land has been
taken from someone else, often several times. People pick their preferred
timeframe and say that that is the “correct” one, and the territory
_really_ belongs to (fill in the blank). The unfortunate thing is that
European diseases killed off so many native people in the Americas. The
European colonists moved into a land that was largely depopulated, and the
few survivors were dispirited. If that hadn’t been the case things would
have been vastly different.

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384762 is a reply to message #384759] Wed, 03 July 2019 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

Racial equality is improving, although there’s a long way to go. I think
attempting to penalize one group to advantage another will hurt rather than
help. Look at the arguments about “affirmative action” and how they won’t
go away. If we want to be color-blind then we need to be color-blind and
stop refering to everything in terms of black and white.

>
> The lack of an understanding of economic science sufficient to abolish business
> cycles, and maintain the economy at a perpetual "boom" state of full employment,
> is the fundamental problem. Despite a desperate search during the Great
> Depression, we don't control the economy so that it functions the way we wish to
> tell it to.
>

I don’t think this is possible no matter how great an understanding we
have. More than that, I’m not sure it’s desirable. Recessions are the
economy’s way of clearing out the dead wood to let the new ideas and
companies flourish. One of the problems with Japan’s economy is that the
government didn’t let inefficient corporations fail, it propped them up, to
act as a drag on the whole economy. China is now getting to this point too.
Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384763 is a reply to message #384761] Wed, 03 July 2019 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 20:00:00 GMT, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:32:44 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> Oh, it is complicated.
>>>> On the one hand, if bombing Pearl Harbor had consequences for
>>>> Japan, why shouldn't aggression against certain black people have
>>>> consequences for the United States? On the other hand, given that
>>>> the North shed its blood to end slavery, why should it owe black
>>>> Americans anything more? Despite slavery, from the beginning, the
>>>> United States was a democracy, and therefore had the capacity to
>>>> see its errors and correct them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The problem is that it’s the _absence_ of slavery that’s the
>>> aberration. Slavery was nearly universal around the world until the
>>> blink of an eye ago. The USA may have been among the last developed
>>> countries to abolish slavery, but not by much. Many people of all
>>> races alive today probably had ancestors who were slaves.
>>
>> Some Native American tribes had slaves, but from what I have read
>> most tribes let the slave work up in their society. Some did.
>>
>>> I agree about “reparations.” Over 300,000 young mostly white men
>>> died to free the ancestors of the people who now seem to believe the
>>> country owes them something more.
>>
>> I do find it fascinating that two groups of white people, Spanish
>> descendants and England/Frence descendants, argue over whose land it
>> is... when they took it by disease, force, and get someone drunk to
>> sign a land deal. Two thieves arguing over whom the Western
>> hemisphere belongs to, when it belongs to neither.
>>
>> Yeah, it all happened in the past.
>>
>
> We’ve been thru this before. Almost every piece of occupied land has
> been taken from someone else, often several times. People pick their
> preferred timeframe and say that that is the “correct” one, and
> the territory _really_ belongs to (fill in the blank). The unfortunate
> thing is that European diseases killed off so many native people in
> the Americas. The European colonists moved into a land that was
> largely depopulated, and the few survivors were dispirited. If that
> hadn’t been the case things would have been vastly different.
>

I find US sentimentality as this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s

quite perturbing for a lefty folk person.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384764 is a reply to message #384762] Wed, 03 July 2019 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:

> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.

What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that this will mean
that a recession will only be a temporary setback to an individual rather than a
permanent blight on his career prospects?

Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?

John Savard
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384765 is a reply to message #384763] Wed, 03 July 2019 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 3:02:32 PM UTC-6, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:

> I find US sentimentality as this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s
>
> quite perturbing for a lefty folk person.

Oh, and we stole it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSjMuKh1Wpo

John Savard
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384766 is a reply to message #384764] Wed, 03 July 2019 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Swallow is currently offline  Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 03/07/2019 23:27, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.
>
> What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that this will mean
> that a recession will only be a temporary setback to an individual rather than a
> permanent blight on his career prospects?
>
> Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?
>
> John Savard
>

Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately doubled
human life times between the two centuries.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384767 is a reply to message #384757] Wed, 03 July 2019 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 17:17:45 -1000, Anne & Lynn Wheeler
<lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>> He was supposed to wait for General Terry, and they would make a
>> combined attack. Depending on which book you read, either its a rumor
>> or a fact stated by Custer, he attacked with just the 7th Cavalry so
>> he could ride the glory and become the next president. Don't forget,
>> it was Custer who exposed a member of President Grant's family as
>> corrupt.
>
> I've seen this version a number of places (he was to wait, but split his
> forces and attacked) ... "The Battle of the Little Bighorn, 1876"
> http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/custer.htm
>
> genocide strategy goes up to Sheriden
>
> The Comanche Empire
> https://www.amazon.com/Comanche-Empire-Lamar-Western-History -ebook/dp/B001HZZ05C/
> loc4690-93:
>
> When planning Comanche campaigns, the U.S. Army was able to draw on
> its rapidly accumulating experience in fighting the Plains
> Indians. The Lakota wars had revealed that regular soldiers, although
> armed with Colt revolvers and Winchester repeating rifles, were a poor
> match for the highly motivated and mobile Indian warriors

It wasn't Sheridan that I know of, but he may have ordered it. Palo
Duro Canyon wasn't well known to the whites living in what is now
Texas. The Comanche were able to keep their horse herds there, hidden
from the Cavalry and Infantry.

A general took a number of me and pack mules into the canyon and
slaughtered thousands of horses. The Comanche had nothing but their
feet left. So they surrendered. Their last chief rented land to the
white ranchers so the cattle had grazing lands. I heard he charged
them more than they wanted to pay, but they didn't have much choice.

--
Jim
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384768 is a reply to message #384766] Wed, 03 July 2019 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:26:37 +0100, Andrew Swallow
<am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 03/07/2019 23:27, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.
>>
>> What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that this will mean
>> that a recession will only be a temporary setback to an individual rather than a
>> permanent blight on his career prospects?
>>
>> Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?
>>
>> John Savard
>>
>
> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately doubled
> human life times between the two centuries.

No, you didn't, you reduced infant mortality which is not the same
thing.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384769 is a reply to message #384742] Wed, 03 July 2019 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sidd is currently offline  sidd
Messages: 239
Registered: July 2012
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Senior Member
In article <lpjnhe1jussff28v6k7np84d7u6etuccrn@4ax.com>,
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> statues/memorials for the Native Americans

Impressive one of Crazy Horse in the Black Hills SD, work under construction.

Will take another few decades, but it is already amazing,
recommend a visit if you pass thru that naighbourhood.

sidd
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384771 is a reply to message #383444] Thu, 04 July 2019 06:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: poitras

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-07-04, sidd@adagio.(none) (sidd) <sidd@adagio> wrote:
>> In article <lpjnhe1jussff28v6k7np84d7u6etuccrn@4ax.com>,
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> statues/memorials for the Native Americans
>>
>> Impressive one of Crazy Horse in the Black Hills SD, work under construction.
>>
>> Will take another few decades, but it is already amazing,
>> recommend a visit if you pass thru that naighbourhood.
> Seconded. Send them money, too. It's being financed purely through
> donations, unlike Mount Rushmore which was paid for by the taxpayers.

And if you're passing through, considering taking a helicopter tour flight.
There are a few options, but most will show both Crazy Horse and Rushmore.

--
Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
sasdtp@sas.com (919) 531-5637 Cary, NC 27513
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384774 is a reply to message #383444] Fri, 05 July 2019 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 20:13:12 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:26:37 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/07/2019 23:27, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.
>>>>
>>>> What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that this will mean
>>>> that a recession will only be a temporary setback to an individual rather than a
>>>> permanent blight on his career prospects?
>>>>
>>>> Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?
>>>>
>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>
>>> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately doubled
>>> human life times between the two centuries.
>>
>> No, you didn't, you reduced infant mortality which is not the same
>> thing.
>
> I think Andrew is right. But not only in Europe reached humans an age of
> 50 or 60 years in the 19th century. But now people aged 90 or above are
> not an exception.

Some people in the Roman Empire reached ages in the 80s and (I believe)
90s. Work was much more dangerous and difficult, and many diseases killed
people that are curable now, that a lot of people died early, but I don’t
think the potential human lifespan has changed. It’s just that more people
are reaching that age.

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384775 is a reply to message #384774] Fri, 05 July 2019 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Fri, 05 Jul 2019 14:30:18 GMT, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 20:13:12 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:26:37 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>>> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 03/07/2019 23:27, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at
>>>> >> the end.
>>>> >
>>>> > What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that
>>>> > this will mean that a recession will only be a temporary setback
>>>> > to an individual rather than a permanent blight on his career
>>>> > prospects?
>>>> >
>>>> > Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?
>>>> >
>>>> > John Savard
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately
>>>> doubled human life times between the two centuries.
>>>
>>> No, you didn't, you reduced infant mortality which is not the same
>>> thing.
>>
>> I think Andrew is right. But not only in Europe reached humans an age
>> of 50 or 60 years in the 19th century. But now people aged 90 or
>> above are not an exception.
>
> Some people in the Roman Empire reached ages in the 80s and (I
> believe) 90s. Work was much more dangerous and difficult, and many
> diseases killed people that are curable now, that a lot of people died
> early, but I don’t think the potential human lifespan has changed.
> It’s just that more people are reaching that age.
>

Well, you're both right; it's a..I dunno, some kind of demographic curve.


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384776 is a reply to message #384774] Fri, 05 July 2019 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 07:30:18 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 20:13:12 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:26:37 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>>> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 03/07/2019 23:27, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.
>>>> >
>>>> > What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that this will mean
>>>> > that a recession will only be a temporary setback to an individual rather than a
>>>> > permanent blight on his career prospects?
>>>> >
>>>> > Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?
>>>> >
>>>> > John Savard
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately doubled
>>>> human life times between the two centuries.
>>>
>>> No, you didn't, you reduced infant mortality which is not the same
>>> thing.
>>
>> I think Andrew is right. But not only in Europe reached humans an age of
>> 50 or 60 years in the 19th century. But now people aged 90 or above are
>> not an exception.
>
> Some people in the Roman Empire reached ages in the 80s and (I believe)
> 90s. Work was much more dangerous and difficult, and many diseases killed
> people that are curable now, that a lot of people died early, but I don’t
> think the potential human lifespan has changed. It’s just that more people
> are reaching that age.

People who talk about "living twice as long" don't understand the
difference between a normal distribution and a bimodal distribution.
The death rate peaks in youth and in old age. If you take an average
then reducing the peak in youth can shift the average. And the death
rate for children was horrendous over most of history.

Ben Franklin lived to 84, Thomas Jefferson to 83, John Adams to 90,
Queen Victoria to 81, as did George III, Harriet Beecher Stowe lived
to 85, Jefferson Davis to 81, Henry Box Brown to 81 or 82, I could go
on, but we have kings, presidents, authors, and slaves all making it
into the 80s.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384777 is a reply to message #384774] Fri, 05 July 2019 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Swallow is currently offline  Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 05/07/2019 15:30, Peter Flass wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 20:13:12 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:26:37 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>>> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 03/07/2019 23:27, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.
>>>> >
>>>> > What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that this will mean
>>>> > that a recession will only be a temporary setback to an individual rather than a
>>>> > permanent blight on his career prospects?
>>>> >
>>>> > Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?
>>>> >
>>>> > John Savard
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately doubled
>>>> human life times between the two centuries.
>>>
>>> No, you didn't, you reduced infant mortality which is not the same
>>> thing.
>>
>> I think Andrew is right. But not only in Europe reached humans an age of
>> 50 or 60 years in the 19th century. But now people aged 90 or above are
>> not an exception.
>
> Some people in the Roman Empire reached ages in the 80s and (I believe)
> 90s. Work was much more dangerous and difficult, and many diseases killed
> people that are curable now, that a lot of people died early, but I don’t
> think the potential human lifespan has changed. It’s just that more people
> are reaching that age.
>

Lets just stick with the mean and median life lengths.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384778 is a reply to message #384777] Fri, 05 July 2019 20:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 00:44:11 +0100, Andrew Swallow
<am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 05/07/2019 15:30, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 20:13:12 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:26:37 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>>>> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 03/07/2019 23:27, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that this will mean
>>>> >> that a recession will only be a temporary setback to an individual rather than a
>>>> >> permanent blight on his career prospects?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> John Savard
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately doubled
>>>> > human life times between the two centuries.
>>>>
>>>> No, you didn't, you reduced infant mortality which is not the same
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> I think Andrew is right. But not only in Europe reached humans an age of
>>> 50 or 60 years in the 19th century. But now people aged 90 or above are
>>> not an exception.
>>
>> Some people in the Roman Empire reached ages in the 80s and (I believe)
>> 90s. Work was much more dangerous and difficult, and many diseases killed
>> people that are curable now, that a lot of people died early, but I don’t
>> think the potential human lifespan has changed. It’s just that more people
>> are reaching that age.
>>
>
> Lets just stick with the mean and median life lengths.

In other words you like to lie with statistics.

Let's try the percentage who are alive at 20 who are still alive at
50, 60, 70, 80, 90, and 100?
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384782 is a reply to message #384766] Sat, 06 July 2019 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 5:26:38 PM UTC-6, Andrew Swallow wrote:

> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately doubled
> human life times between the two centuries.

The quibble that doubling human life _expectancy_ isn't exactly the same as
doubling the human life span - the lifetime remained the same, it's infant
mortality that was reduced - is valid, but a minor slip in wording is not the same
as an attempt to "lie with statistics". Rhetoric getting out of hand, though, is
hardly a surprise on Usenet.

John Savard
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384783 is a reply to message #384782] Sat, 06 July 2019 05:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 07:49:46 GMT, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 5:26:38 PM UTC-6, Andrew Swallow wrote:
>
>> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately
>> doubled human life times between the two centuries.
>
> The quibble that doubling human life _expectancy_ isn't exactly the
> same as doubling the human life span - the lifetime remained the same,
> it's infant mortality that was reduced - is valid, but a minor slip in
> wording is not the same as an attempt to "lie with statistics".
> Rhetoric getting out of hand, though, is hardly a surprise on Usenet.
>
> John Savard
>
Clarke being inflamatory? Whatever next!


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384784 is a reply to message #384764] Sat, 06 July 2019 05:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 15:27:13 -0700 (PDT)
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.
>
> What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that this
> will mean that a recession will only be a temporary setback to an
> individual rather than a permanent blight on his career prospects?

That might work, provided it is productive lifespan that is
increased. Whether a depression blights a career depends a great deal on
when it happens, right at the beginning is pretty much lethal as you wind
up over-aged and under-experienced, long lifespans may reduce that stigma.

Later on is not so bad and can sometimes even be an opportunity if
you are lucky enough to be well placed when it hits, one good scenario is
to get made redundant from a long held, well paying job and land another
quickly right when the property market is at rock bottom so you get to nab a
bargain with the pile of redundancy money. The longer you live the more
shots you have at getting a lift like that.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384785 is a reply to message #384782] Sat, 06 July 2019 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 00:49:46 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 5:26:38 PM UTC-6, Andrew Swallow wrote:
>
>> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately doubled
>> human life times between the two centuries.
>
> The quibble that doubling human life _expectancy_ isn't exactly the same as
> doubling the human life span - the lifetime remained the same, it's infant
> mortality that was reduced - is valid, but a minor slip in wording is not the same
> as an attempt to "lie with statistics". Rhetoric getting out of hand, though, is
> hardly a surprise on Usenet.

When someone who has had the distinction, which is not minor, pointed
out and still insists on using the mean, he has moved from error to
intent.

Using the mean without qualification gives the impression that
everybody drops dead at 35. It doesn't work that way.

Or maybe it's less of a quibble to people who don't work with death
statistics for a living.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384788 is a reply to message #384748] Sat, 06 July 2019 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
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On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 9:32:46 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> Oh, it is complicated.
>> On the one hand, if bombing Pearl Harbor had consequences for Japan, why shouldn't
>> aggression against certain black people have consequences for the United States?
>> On the other hand, given that the North shed its blood to end slavery,
>> why should it owe black Americans anything more?
>> Despite slavery, from the beginning, the United States was a democracy, and
>> therefore had the capacity to see its errors and correct them.
>>
>
> The problem is that it’s the _absence_ of slavery that’s the aberration.
> Slavery was nearly universal around the world until the blink of an eye
> ago. The USA may have been among the last developed countries to abolish
> slavery, but not by much. Many people of all races alive today probably
> had ancestors who were slaves.

The last sentence is key. Go back far enough and you'll find
plenty of people as slaves or near-slaves (serfs, exploited
labor, etc). Many ethnic groups faced discrimination.

Life in the U.S. in earlier years was extremely harsh. It
was a hard struggle just to survive for almost everyone.




> I agree about “reparations.” Over 300,000 young mostly white men died to
> free the ancestors of the people who now seem to believe the country owes
> them something more.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384789 is a reply to message #384759] Sat, 06 July 2019 16:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 7:08:35 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 7:32:46 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> I agree about “reparations.” Over 300,000 young mostly white men died to
>> free the ancestors of the people who now seem to believe the country owes
>> them something more.
>
> Well, _of course_ the country owes them something more.
>
> The life experiences of black people in America are not equivalent to those of
> white people in America whose ancestors entered the United States at the same
> time.

The life experiences of many groups in the U.S. are quite
varied. Certain groups have thrived, but other groups have
not. There are many reasons for this, including choices
and culture of a particular group. Likewise, some
individuals manage to overcome adversity while others
fail despite all the "advantages".

For example, I lost a neighbor who was descended from a founding
family 300 years ago. He was dirt poor and lived a sad life.

According to the arguments for reparations, he somehow was
"privileged". But he was not; being from a founding family
got him nothing.

Of the flip side, we must remember there are some African
Americans who have done very well, attaining wealth or public office.




> After the Civil War, the United States again betrayed black people by ending
> Reconstruction hastily - before the Southern states were reformed to have
> governments absolutely committed to total racial equality. The result was long
> decades of segregation that further cemented the disadvantaged position of black
> Americans.

Many Americans for years faced segregation and exploitation.
Blacks do not have a monopoly on that.



> Basically, being black in America instead of white... should be like being blond
> or a redhead instead of a brunette - an utterly trivial distinction. If it is
> not, something is wrong, which needs to be fixed.
>
> This is not merely *obvious*. It is _axiomatic_, and hence beyond all
> discussion, debate, or argument.

No. The issues of _outcome_ are varied and affected by many
factors.

Unfortunately, for a while now it has been forbidden to talk
about those other factors.

[snip]
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384790 is a reply to message #384762] Sat, 06 July 2019 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 4:00:04 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
> Racial equality is improving, although there’s a long way to go. I think
> attempting to penalize one group to advantage another will hurt rather than
> help. Look at the arguments about “affirmative action” and how they won’t
> go away. If we want to be color-blind then we need to be color-blind and
> stop refering to everything in terms of black and white.

IMHO, affirmative action--as practiced today--has done more
harm than good.

The original premise, back in the 1960s, was to provide better
education and job opportunities to the disadvantaged. That is,
the goal was to help people grow to meet the bar. However,
soon the program was co-opted to be lowering the bar rather
than raising people.

Admitting unqualified people to college didn't help them.
Hiring unqualified people to jobs didn't help them. It
was a big waste of resources.




>>
>> The lack of an understanding of economic science sufficient to abolish business
>> cycles, and maintain the economy at a perpetual "boom" state of full employment,
>> is the fundamental problem. Despite a desperate search during the Great
>> Depression, we don't control the economy so that it functions the way we wish to
>> tell it to.
>>
>
> I don’t think this is possible no matter how great an understanding we
> have. More than that, I’m not sure it’s desirable. Recessions are the
> economy’s way of clearing out the dead wood to let the new ideas and
> companies flourish. One of the problems with Japan’s economy is that the
> government didn’t let inefficient corporations fail, it propped them up, to
> act as a drag on the whole economy. China is now getting to this point too.
> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at the end.

I don't agree with that. Recessions are part of the boom/bust
cycle of a failed marketplace.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384792 is a reply to message #384790] Sat, 06 July 2019 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 4:00:04 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Racial equality is improving, although there’s a long way to go. I think
>> attempting to penalize one group to advantage another will hurt rather than
>> help. Look at the arguments about “affirmative action” and how they won’t
>> go away. If we want to be color-blind then we need to be color-blind and
>> stop refering to everything in terms of black and white.
>
> IMHO, affirmative action--as practiced today--has done more
> harm than good.
>
> The original premise, back in the 1960s, was to provide better
> education and job opportunities to the disadvantaged. That is,
> the goal was to help people grow to meet the bar. However,
> soon the program was co-opted to be lowering the bar rather
> than raising people.

When I first heard the term “affirmative action” I thought it meant making
extra efforts to reach out to candidates for jobs or admission who might
otherwise never have applied or who would have been overlooked. Who could
have objected to that? Then I found out it was all about quotas and
hiring/admitting otherwise unqualified people in the interest of some phony
ideal of “fairness”. People should rise or fall on their own merits,
black, white, or purple, male, female, or undecided.

>
> Admitting unqualified people to college didn't help them.
> Hiring unqualified people to jobs didn't help them. It
> was a big waste of resources.
>

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384794 is a reply to message #384778] Sat, 06 July 2019 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alfred Falk is currently offline  Alfred Falk
Messages: 195
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
No Message Body
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384796 is a reply to message #384794] Sun, 07 July 2019 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 03:18:49 -0000 (UTC), Alfred Falk
<aefalk@telus.net> wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:cdpvhepfdnnsrfn4tfuclne4088ju1ibp9@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 00:44:11 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/07/2019 15:30, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 20:13:12 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:26:37 +0100, Andrew Swallow
>>>> >> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 03/07/2019 23:27, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 2:00:04 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Recessions are painful, but they result in a sounder economy at
>>>> >>>>> the end.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> What happens if we increase the human lifespan, in the hopes that
>>>> >>>> this will mean that a recession will only be a temporary setback
>>>> >>>> to an individual rather than a permanent blight on his career
>>>> >>>> prospects?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Will that work, or will recessions just last longer?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> John Savard
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Compare the 19th and 20th centuries. In Europe we approximately
>>>> >>> doubled human life times between the two centuries.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> No, you didn't, you reduced infant mortality which is not the same
>>>> >> thing.
>>>> >
>>>> > I think Andrew is right. But not only in Europe reached humans an
>>>> > age of 50 or 60 years in the 19th century. But now people aged 90 or
>>>> > above are not an exception.
>>>>
>>>> Some people in the Roman Empire reached ages in the 80s and (I
>>>> believe) 90s. Work was much more dangerous and difficult, and many
>>>> diseases killed people that are curable now, that a lot of people
>>>> died early, but I don? think the potential human lifespan has
>>>> changed. It? just that more people are reaching that age.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Lets just stick with the mean and median life lengths.
>>
>> In other words you like to lie with statistics.
>>
>> Let's try the percentage who are alive at 20 who are still alive at
>> 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, and 100?
>
> Yes. Life Expectancy is properly presented as being for people who have
> reached a particular age. Thus life expectancy at age may be much shorter
> than life expectancy at any greater age. People who are 90, of necessity,
> have an expectancy of at least 90.

Incidentally, accurate numbers are hard to obtain for any time before
1693 when Edmund Halley created the first known mortality table for
the town of Breslau.

59.8 percent of those born alive lived to age 20.

Of those alive at 20, 88.7 percent made it to 30, 74.4 percent to 40,
57.8 percent to 50, 40.5 percent to 60, 23.7 percent to 70, and 6.9
percent to 80. The table stops at 84, but points out that of the
total of 34,000, 107 lived longer than 85.

There's a discussion at
http://fac.comtech.depaul.edu/jciecka/Halley.pdf
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384805 is a reply to message #384792] Sun, 07 July 2019 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: nobody

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 15:28:43 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> When I first heard the term “affirmative action” I thought it meant making
> extra efforts to reach out to candidates for jobs or admission who might
> otherwise never have applied or who would have been overlooked. Who could
> have objected to that? Then I found out it was all about quotas and
> hiring/admitting otherwise unqualified people in the interest of some phony
> ideal of “fairness”.

In short, if you establish a metric, people will generally do the
easiest thing that satisfies that metric regardless of what it was
supposed to accomplish.

> People should rise or fall on their own merits,
> black, white, or purple, male, female, or undecided.

Not equality of outcome, but equality of opportunity. I can get behind
that idea.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384808 is a reply to message #384771] Mon, 08 July 2019 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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Senior Member
On 2019-07-04, Don Poitras <poitras@pobox.com> wrote:
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2019-07-04, sidd@adagio.(none) (sidd) <sidd@adagio> wrote:
>>> In article <lpjnhe1jussff28v6k7np84d7u6etuccrn@4ax.com>,
>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> statues/memorials for the Native Americans
>>>
>>> Impressive one of Crazy Horse in the Black Hills SD, work under construction.
>>>
>>> Will take another few decades, but it is already amazing,
>>> recommend a visit if you pass thru that naighbourhood.
>> Seconded. Send them money, too. It's being financed purely through
>> donations, unlike Mount Rushmore which was paid for by the taxpayers.
>
> And if you're passing through, considering taking a helicopter tour flight.
> There are a few options, but most will show both Crazy Horse and Rushmore.
>

AFAIK, there is no picture of Crazy Horse..


--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384809 is a reply to message #384775] Mon, 08 July 2019 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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Senior Member
On 2019-07-05, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Jul 2019 14:30:18 GMT, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Some people in the Roman Empire reached ages in the 80s and (I
>> believe) 90s. Work was much more dangerous and difficult, and many
>> diseases killed people that are curable now, that a lot of people died
>> early, but I don’t think the potential human lifespan has changed.
>> It’s just that more people are reaching that age.
>>
>
> Well, you're both right; it's a..I dunno, some kind of demographic curve.
>
>

I would be a lot more enthusuastic about a greater life span if I did not
know so many people whose lives(?) are spent being wheeled in and out of day
rooms, in great indignity,


--
Maus@ireland.xxx
Will rant for food.
You are taking the IPCC, right?
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384811 is a reply to message #384809] Mon, 08 July 2019 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 15:24:36 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:

> On 2019-07-05, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2019 14:30:18 GMT, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Some people in the Roman Empire reached ages in the 80s and (I
>>> believe) 90s. Work was much more dangerous and difficult, and many
>>> diseases killed people that are curable now, that a lot of people
>>> died early, but I don’t think the potential human lifespan has
>>> changed. It’s just that more people are reaching that age.
>>>
>>
>> Well, you're both right; it's a..I dunno, some kind of demographic
>> curve.
>>
>>
>
> I would be a lot more enthusuastic about a greater life span if I did
> not know so many people whose lives(?) are spent being wheeled in and
> out of day rooms, in great indignity,
>
>
I'm not keen on dwelling that way; but early death due to famine, disease
or local "land-owner has other priorities" doesn't appeal either.



--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384812 is a reply to message #384808] Mon, 08 July 2019 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Senior Member
maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2019-07-04, Don Poitras <poitras@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2019-07-04, sidd@adagio.(none) (sidd) <sidd@adagio> wrote:
>>>> In article <lpjnhe1jussff28v6k7np84d7u6etuccrn@4ax.com>,
>>>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > statues/memorials for the Native Americans
>>>>
>>>> Impressive one of Crazy Horse in the Black Hills SD, work under construction.
>>>>
>>>> Will take another few decades, but it is already amazing,
>>>> recommend a visit if you pass thru that naighbourhood.
>>> Seconded. Send them money, too. It's being financed purely through
>>> donations, unlike Mount Rushmore which was paid for by the taxpayers.
>>
>> And if you're passing through, considering taking a helicopter tour flight.
>> There are a few options, but most will show both Crazy Horse and Rushmore.
>>
>
> AFAIK, there is no picture of Crazy Horse..
>
>

Apparently it’s still a work in progress.
https://crazyhorsememorial.org/

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384814 is a reply to message #384809] Mon, 08 July 2019 18:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 8 Jul 2019 15:24:36 GMT
maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:

> I would be a lot more enthusuastic about a greater life span if I did not
> know so many people whose lives(?) are spent being wheeled in and out of
> day rooms, in great indignity,

I am now a little older than my father was when I went to college
in 1978, I am far fitter[1] (a lifetime of smoking 60 a day takes its toll)
and look much younger than him when I was ten let alone at my age. I never
knew my parents with any natural teeth, I still have most of mine (the
missing ones went to accident and bad dentistry in the early 70s). I went
indoor karting a couple of weeks ago, doing that at my age would probably
have killed my father and most of his cohorts, I decided that next time a
longer session would be fun. This seems to be the norm for my age these
days.

At 60 my father's life was essentially over, mine seems far from
it. I've already confirmed that I won't be required to retire when I hit
65. Of course I still might get hit tomorrow by the apocryphal bus driver
with a deep hatred of programmers.

[1] No I don't do anything special to be that way, no gym membership, daily
jogs, weights, workouts or strange diets - I just keep active doing what
needs doing.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384817 is a reply to message #384814] Mon, 08 July 2019 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
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Senior Member
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

> On 8 Jul 2019 15:24:36 GMT
> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> I would be a lot more enthusuastic about a greater life span if I did not
>> know so many people whose lives(?) are spent being wheeled in and out of
>> day rooms, in great indignity,
>
> I am now a little older than my father was when I went to college
> in 1978, I am far fitter[1] (a lifetime of smoking 60 a day takes its toll)
> and look much younger than him when I was ten let alone at my age. I never
> knew my parents with any natural teeth, I still have most of mine (the
> missing ones went to accident and bad dentistry in the early 70s). I went
> indoor karting a couple of weeks ago, doing that at my age would probably
> have killed my father and most of his cohorts, I decided that next time a
> longer session would be fun. This seems to be the norm for my age these
> days.
>
> At 60 my father's life was essentially over, mine seems far from
> it. I've already confirmed that I won't be required to retire when I hit
> 65. Of course I still might get hit tomorrow by the apocryphal bus driver
> with a deep hatred of programmers.
>
> [1] No I don't do anything special to be that way, no gym membership, daily
> jogs, weights, workouts or strange diets - I just keep active doing what
> needs doing.

You consider driving a go kart a measure of your fitness?

I really don't want to shuffle around, I'm still hoping to die suddenly.
I'm 73 now. For the last 5 years, I adopted swimming as my form of
exercise. 3 times a week, swim a mile. That kept me in pretty good
shape, but about 7 months ago I decided, I'm retired, I have time on my
hands, why not go to a gym and bulk up before I really start to age.
2 hours at the gym, (mostly weights), seems to be working better
than the swimming.

I've done the weights thing a few times in my life, sadly my longest
stretch was only 8 years. Amazing what you can do to change yourself
with weights.

Not sure I have any chance of beating my previous 8 years.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384819 is a reply to message #384792] Mon, 08 July 2019 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 6:28:44 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:

>> The original premise, back in the 1960s, was to provide better
>> education and job opportunities to the disadvantaged. That is,
>> the goal was to help people grow to meet the bar. However,
>> soon the program was co-opted to be lowering the bar rather
>> than raising people.
>
> When I first heard the term “affirmative action” I thought it meant making
> extra efforts to reach out to candidates for jobs or admission who might
> otherwise never have applied or who would have been overlooked. Who could
> have objected to that? Then I found out it was all about quotas and
> hiring/admitting otherwise unqualified people in the interest of some phony
> ideal of “fairness”. People should rise or fall on their own merits,
> black, white, or purple, male, female, or undecided.

Yes, it was that in the early years. Most people supported
it.

The quotas and hiring pressures came a few years later.


IBM candidly wrote about their experiences. They built a
plant in the inner city as a progressive attempt to
hire disadvantaged people. They took a very practical
approach to it. They did not hire the "hard core
employed", rather, they focused on people who they
felt could be trained to be responsible and
productive workers.


https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/brooklyn/brooklyn_1 .html
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384821 is a reply to message #384817] Tue, 09 July 2019 06:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:17:10 -0400
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> You consider driving a go kart a measure of your fitness?

Of course it is, I know a good many people who would have trouble
with it. similarly walking upstairs is a measure of fitness one that my 60
year old father regularly made a poor showing of whereas it takes a few
stories before I stop taking them two steps at a time. I am well aware that
there are fitter people than me, and that many of them are older than I am,
that's not the point - or perhaps it is, I am not unusually fit for my age
and generation but I am unusually fit compared to my father's cohort at my
age.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384822 is a reply to message #384821] Tue, 09 July 2019 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

> On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:17:10 -0400
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You consider driving a go kart a measure of your fitness?
>
> Of course it is, I know a good many people who would have trouble
> with it. similarly walking upstairs is a measure of fitness one that my 60
> year old father regularly made a poor showing of whereas it takes a few
> stories before I stop taking them two steps at a time. I am well aware that
> there are fitter people than me, and that many of them are older than I am,
> that's not the point - or perhaps it is, I am not unusually fit for my age
> and generation but I am unusually fit compared to my father's cohort at my
> age.

Just trying to spread the secret.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384824 is a reply to message #383444] Tue, 09 July 2019 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: nobody

On 9 Jul 2019 13:36:14 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>> On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:17:10 -0400
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You consider driving a go kart a measure of your fitness?
>
> There speaks a man who's never driven a decent kart in anger in a
> 4 hour race.

Does the Baltimore-DC commute in a Fiat 500 count?
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384826 is a reply to message #384824] Tue, 09 July 2019 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Spencer is currently offline  Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:

> On 9 Jul 2019 13:36:14 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:17:10 -0400
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You consider driving a go kart a measure of your fitness?
>>
>> There speaks a man who's never driven a decent kart in anger in a
>> 4 hour race.
>
> Does the Baltimore-DC commute in a Fiat 500 count?

Fiats may have changed since I was a mech-a-nick (are they all, yew
know, Chryslers now?) but back then, given a Fiat with more than
40,000 miles on it, you wouldn't want to drive it anywhere that your
fitness level wouldn't permit you to walk home from.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384827 is a reply to message #383444] Tue, 09 July 2019 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 9 Jul 2019 13:36:14 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>> On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:17:10 -0400
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You consider driving a go kart a measure of your fitness?
>
> There speaks a man who's never driven a decent kart in anger in a
> 4 hour race.

Then, there are bumper cars. Admit it, you have deliberately gone
after others.

Sincerely,

Gene "Not Lately" Wirchenko
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384828 is a reply to message #384826] Tue, 09 July 2019 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 09 Jul 2019 17:09:55 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
> nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:
>
>> On 9 Jul 2019 13:36:14 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> There speaks a man who's never driven a decent kart in anger in a
>>> 4 hour race.
>>
>> Does the Baltimore-DC commute in a Fiat 500 count?

The original Fiat 500 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_500> was sold
from 1957 to 1975 AFAIK only in Europe and had 479 cc (thus called
"500"). The current Fiat 500 has at least 900 cc or more. Makes me
wonder, why it's still called a "Fiat 500".

> Fiats may have changed since I was a mech-a-nick (are they all, yew
> know, Chryslers now?) but back then, given a Fiat with more than
> 40,000 miles on it, you wouldn't want to drive it anywhere that your
> fitness level wouldn't permit you to walk home from.

Chrysler is owned by FIAT today. It was before owned by
Mercedes-Benz. Rumors suggest that FIAT is ditching the Chrysler brand
soon. I wonder what car manufacturer picks up Chrysler if this
happens. May be the brand fades into history if none picks it up.
--
Andreas

My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384829 is a reply to message #383444] Tue, 09 July 2019 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:

>> On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:17:10 -0400
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You consider driving a go kart a measure of your fitness?
>
> There speaks a man who's never driven a decent kart in anger in a
> 4 hour race.

Well, that would be a good answer to my question.

Sounds fun.

--
Dan Espen
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