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wars, was: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #383892 is a reply to message #383889] Mon, 13 May 2019 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
danny burstein is currently offline  danny burstein
Messages: 78
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Member
In <28cbd312-46c0-428a-9a1c-2d91799eb6f5@googlegroups.com> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:35:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:

>> Unfortunately. I always looked at it as a great strength of the United
>> States that we could fight a war that killed so many on both sides and
>> still be able to honor the heroes on the losing side as well as the
>> winners. I look at the middle east, where the Sunni-Shiiite conflict that
>> rages today traces back to a war fought over a thousand years ago that one
>> can seem to stop refighting.

> Yes.

> I know a WW II vet and former steel worker who wasn't very
> fond of the Japanese because his wartime and postwar experiences.
> However, he mellowed and eventually bought a Toyota.

> A lot of Vietnam vets return to 'Nam to visit.

hell, even Abraham Jebediah "Abe" Simpson II, after decades
of cursing out the Japanese for what they did during the
Great Patriotic War, was polite and friendly when he
went back to Japan and met the Emperor.


--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383894 is a reply to message #383889] Mon, 13 May 2019 18:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:35:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately. I always looked at it as a great strength of the United
>> States that we could fight a war that killed so many on both sides and
>> still be able to honor the heroes on the losing side as well as the
>> winners. I look at the middle east, where the Sunni-Shiiite conflict that
>> rages today traces back to a war fought over a thousand years ago that one
>> can seem to stop refighting.
>
> Yes.
>
> I know a WW II vet and former steel worker who wasn't very
> fond of the Japanese because his wartime and postwar experiences.
> However, he mellowed and eventually bought a Toyota.
>
> A lot of Vietnam vets return to 'Nam to visit.
>
>
>> African-Americans should concentrate on erecting statues to honor their own
>> ancestors and not try to tear down others.
>
> Good point.

No, that's not a good point.

Why?

Well, those statues aren't just honorable ancestors.
If African-Americans had some ancestors that fought and killed
to enslave white people, would we be happy those statues?

So, no, definitely not a good point.
That's a false equivalence.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383899 is a reply to message #383750] Tue, 14 May 2019 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On Thu, 09 May 2019 14:44:56 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

[snip]

>> I'm sure all of us suffered through a school or industrial
>> screening where the projector had to get set up, they couldn't
>> find the outlet or extension cord, the projector didn't work
>> right, etc. I had training classes with Univac at their HQ
>> and unfortunately, they were not as well organized nor prepared.
>
> I used to require students give presentations in class. More than one
> showed up for a presentation with no idea how to get a laptop to send
> video out the VGA port.

On my computing diploma and degree, we had a few presentations. I
think we should have had more. Having been a member of Toastmasters
International, I had honed my public speaking skills and evaluation of
same; I saw that most student did not do very well at all.

Some of it was prep for setting up. When I did one in an English
class, having seen the difficulty others had with the computer system,
I used an overhead projector, and I had a spare bulb. I was
considering faking the bulb breaking.

Some students did not create their own visuals. This often
caused distraction, because of unneeded detail.

Many students spoke from their notes. That is a good way to
sabotage one's voice projection.

None of this is particularly difficult to deal with though. I
had mentioned my public speaking experience and offered to help
people, but not one person took me up on it. Their loss (and the
audiences').

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383901 is a reply to message #383444] Tue, 14 May 2019 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Mon, 13 May 2019 16:07:55 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2019 19:07:51 GMT, Scott wrote:
>>
>> It was usually possible in my neighborhood within the past ten years
>> or so. Not that it helped; the one time someone decided to steal the
>> stereo from my *unlocked* car, they smashed a window to do it.
>
> Hah!
>
> Reminds me running an open FTP server (ID "anonymous" and any email
> address as password) for a test purpose. Looking constantly into the log
> file to see what happens some morons tried "the typical" IDs and were
> rejected.

Looking at my web site, and domain, logs people keep trying to log
into software that doesn't exist there. Like Apple anything and
WordPress.

--
Jim
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383902 is a reply to message #383901] Tue, 14 May 2019 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 14 May 2019 09:12:42 -0500
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looking at my web site, and domain, logs people keep trying to log
> into software that doesn't exist there. Like Apple anything and
> WordPress.

Mine runs static pages only (with CGI support turned off) I get all
sorts of non-existent attack routes tried, 404s are cheap so I don't care.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383904 is a reply to message #383899] Tue, 14 May 2019 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Pfeiffer is currently offline  Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> writes:

> On Thu, 09 May 2019 14:44:56 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
> <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> I'm sure all of us suffered through a school or industrial
>>> screening where the projector had to get set up, they couldn't
>>> find the outlet or extension cord, the projector didn't work
>>> right, etc. I had training classes with Univac at their HQ
>>> and unfortunately, they were not as well organized nor prepared.
>>
>> I used to require students give presentations in class. More than one
>> showed up for a presentation with no idea how to get a laptop to send
>> video out the VGA port.
>
> On my computing diploma and degree, we had a few presentations. I
> think we should have had more. Having been a member of Toastmasters
> International, I had honed my public speaking skills and evaluation of
> same; I saw that most student did not do very well at all.
>
> Some of it was prep for setting up. When I did one in an English
> class, having seen the difficulty others had with the computer system,
> I used an overhead projector, and I had a spare bulb. I was
> considering faking the bulb breaking.
>
> Some students did not create their own visuals. This often
> caused distraction, because of unneeded detail.
>
> Many students spoke from their notes. That is a good way to
> sabotage one's voice projection.
>
> None of this is particularly difficult to deal with though. I
> had mentioned my public speaking experience and offered to help
> people, but not one person took me up on it. Their loss (and the
> audiences').

I had students get so bad about simply putting figures from papers up,
and not being able to describe the content of the figures, I banned
powerpoint and made them use the blackboard. I came in one day a few
minutes before class and found a student carefully covering all the
blackboards with painstakingly reconstructed figures from the paper.
No, he wasn't able to describe the content of the figures.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383917 is a reply to message #383904] Tue, 14 May 2019 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 14 May 2019 10:30:01 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

[snip]

> I had students get so bad about simply putting figures from papers up,
> and not being able to describe the content of the figures, I banned
> powerpoint and made them use the blackboard. I came in one day a few
> minutes before class and found a student carefully covering all the
> blackboards with painstakingly reconstructed figures from the paper.
> No, he wasn't able to describe the content of the figures.

I have heard of PowerPoint bans. AFAIAC, I think it is an
excellent idea. PowerPoint (and other such tools), in the hands of a
skilled speaker, can be very useful. In the hands of someone who is
not a skilled speaker, it breeds bad habits.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383918 is a reply to message #383894] Tue, 14 May 2019 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Mon, 13 May 2019 18:39:58 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>
>> On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:35:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately. I always looked at it as a great strength of the United
>>> States that we could fight a war that killed so many on both sides and
>>> still be able to honor the heroes on the losing side as well as the
>>> winners. I look at the middle east, where the Sunni-Shiiite conflict that
>>> rages today traces back to a war fought over a thousand years ago that one
>>> can seem to stop refighting.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> I know a WW II vet and former steel worker who wasn't very
>> fond of the Japanese because his wartime and postwar experiences.
>> However, he mellowed and eventually bought a Toyota.
>>
>> A lot of Vietnam vets return to 'Nam to visit.

>>> African-Americans should concentrate on erecting statues to honor their own
>>> ancestors and not try to tear down others.
>>
>> Good point.
>
> No, that's not a good point.
>
> Why?
>
> Well, those statues aren't just honorable ancestors.
> If African-Americans had some ancestors that fought and killed
> to enslave white people, would we be happy those statues?
>
> So, no, definitely not a good point.
> That's a false equivalence.

OK, now take a look at some of the actions George Washington took
against Indians. Would you suggest tearing down statues of him? Why
or why not?

Sincerely,

Gene wirchenko
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383920 is a reply to message #383917] Tue, 14 May 2019 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ted@loft.tnolan.com ( is currently offline  ted@loft.tnolan.com (
Messages: 161
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <a5emded24qv8h8c3tv9b271hcfa513khk1@4ax.com>,
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 May 2019 10:30:01 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
> <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> I had students get so bad about simply putting figures from papers up,
>> and not being able to describe the content of the figures, I banned
>> powerpoint and made them use the blackboard. I came in one day a few
>> minutes before class and found a student carefully covering all the
>> blackboards with painstakingly reconstructed figures from the paper.
>> No, he wasn't able to describe the content of the figures.
>
> I have heard of PowerPoint bans. AFAIAC, I think it is an
> excellent idea. PowerPoint (and other such tools), in the hands of a
> skilled speaker, can be very useful. In the hands of someone who is
> not a skilled speaker, it breeds bad habits.
>

https://dilbert.com/strip/2000-08-16
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383925 is a reply to message #383918] Tue, 14 May 2019 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> writes:

> On Mon, 13 May 2019 18:39:58 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>>
>>> On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:35:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately. I always looked at it as a great strength of the
>>>> United States that we could fight a war that killed so many on both
>>>> sides and still be able to honor the heroes on the losing side as
>>>> well as the winners. I look at the middle east, where the
>>>> Sunni-Shiiite conflict that rages today traces back to a war fought
>>>> over a thousand years ago that one can seem to stop refighting.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> I know a WW II vet and former steel worker who wasn't very fond of
>>> the Japanese because his wartime and postwar experiences. However,
>>> he mellowed and eventually bought a Toyota.
>>>
>>> A lot of Vietnam vets return to 'Nam to visit.
>
>>>> African-Americans should concentrate on erecting statues to honor
>>>> their own ancestors and not try to tear down others.
>>>
>>> Good point.
>>
>> No, that's not a good point.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Well, those statues aren't just honorable ancestors. If
>> African-Americans had some ancestors that fought and killed to enslave
>> white people, would we be happy those statues?
>>
>> So, no, definitely not a good point. That's a false equivalence.
>
> OK, now take a look at some of the actions George Washington took
> against Indians. Would you suggest tearing down statues of him? Why
> or why not?

Really? Do you seriously think the faults of one person makes anything
okay? GW did lots of good things. Can you say the same for the
confederate traitors?

Not that I'm the type to stand reverently in front of a statue. It's
all a bunch of dangerous hero worship.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383926 is a reply to message #383918] Tue, 14 May 2019 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 May 2019 18:39:58 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>>
>>> On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:35:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately. I always looked at it as a great strength of the United
>>>> States that we could fight a war that killed so many on both sides and
>>>> still be able to honor the heroes on the losing side as well as the
>>>> winners. I look at the middle east, where the Sunni-Shiiite conflict that
>>>> rages today traces back to a war fought over a thousand years ago that one
>>>> can seem to stop refighting.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> I know a WW II vet and former steel worker who wasn't very
>>> fond of the Japanese because his wartime and postwar experiences.
>>> However, he mellowed and eventually bought a Toyota.
>>>
>>> A lot of Vietnam vets return to 'Nam to visit.
>
>>>> African-Americans should concentrate on erecting statues to honor their own
>>>> ancestors and not try to tear down others.
>>>
>>> Good point.
>>
>> No, that's not a good point.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Well, those statues aren't just honorable ancestors.
>> If African-Americans had some ancestors that fought and killed
>> to enslave white people, would we be happy those statues?
>>
>> So, no, definitely not a good point.
>> That's a false equivalence.
>
> OK, now take a look at some of the actions George Washington took
> against Indians. Would you suggest tearing down statues of him? Why
> or why not?

It’s probably been suggested. I believe they put up a statue commemorating
the first African slave woman brought into Jamestown and there were
protests, many from African-Americans.

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383927 is a reply to message #383920] Tue, 14 May 2019 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <a5emded24qv8h8c3tv9b271hcfa513khk1@4ax.com>,
> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 May 2019 10:30:01 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
>> <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> I had students get so bad about simply putting figures from papers up,
>>> and not being able to describe the content of the figures, I banned
>>> powerpoint and made them use the blackboard. I came in one day a few
>>> minutes before class and found a student carefully covering all the
>>> blackboards with painstakingly reconstructed figures from the paper.
>>> No, he wasn't able to describe the content of the figures.
>>
>> I have heard of PowerPoint bans. AFAIAC, I think it is an
>> excellent idea. PowerPoint (and other such tools), in the hands of a
>> skilled speaker, can be very useful. In the hands of someone who is
>> not a skilled speaker, it breeds bad habits.
>>
>
> https://dilbert.com/strip/2000-08-16

Between Dilbert and xkcd there’s a comic for everything.

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383928 is a reply to message #383925] Tue, 14 May 2019 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 13 May 2019 18:39:58 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:35:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Unfortunately. I always looked at it as a great strength of the
>>>> > United States that we could fight a war that killed so many on both
>>>> > sides and still be able to honor the heroes on the losing side as
>>>> > well as the winners. I look at the middle east, where the
>>>> > Sunni-Shiiite conflict that rages today traces back to a war fought
>>>> > over a thousand years ago that one can seem to stop refighting.
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> I know a WW II vet and former steel worker who wasn't very fond of
>>>> the Japanese because his wartime and postwar experiences. However,
>>>> he mellowed and eventually bought a Toyota.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of Vietnam vets return to 'Nam to visit.
>>
>>>> > African-Americans should concentrate on erecting statues to honor
>>>> > their own ancestors and not try to tear down others.
>>>>
>>>> Good point.
>>>
>>> No, that's not a good point.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Well, those statues aren't just honorable ancestors. If
>>> African-Americans had some ancestors that fought and killed to enslave
>>> white people, would we be happy those statues?
>>>
>>> So, no, definitely not a good point. That's a false equivalence.
>>
>> OK, now take a look at some of the actions George Washington took
>> against Indians. Would you suggest tearing down statues of him? Why
>> or why not?
>
> Really? Do you seriously think the faults of one person makes anything
> okay? GW did lots of good things. Can you say the same for the
> confederate traitors?
>
> Not that I'm the type to stand reverently in front of a statue. It's
> all a bunch of dangerous hero worship.
>

Bobbie Lee did a lot of good things, from the Mexican War - but you may be
against that - to being president of Washington and Lee University. John
Brown was a terrorist who killed innocent people and tried to start an
uprising against the US government, but they have put up statues to him,
too.

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383932 is a reply to message #383928] Tue, 14 May 2019 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 13 May 2019 18:39:58 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:35:49 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Unfortunately. I always looked at it as a great strength of the
>>>> >> United States that we could fight a war that killed so many on both
>>>> >> sides and still be able to honor the heroes on the losing side as
>>>> >> well as the winners. I look at the middle east, where the
>>>> >> Sunni-Shiiite conflict that rages today traces back to a war fought
>>>> >> over a thousand years ago that one can seem to stop refighting.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes.
>>>> >
>>>> > I know a WW II vet and former steel worker who wasn't very fond of
>>>> > the Japanese because his wartime and postwar experiences. However,
>>>> > he mellowed and eventually bought a Toyota.
>>>> >
>>>> > A lot of Vietnam vets return to 'Nam to visit.
>>>
>>>> >> African-Americans should concentrate on erecting statues to honor
>>>> >> their own ancestors and not try to tear down others.
>>>> >
>>>> > Good point.
>>>>
>>>> No, that's not a good point.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> Well, those statues aren't just honorable ancestors. If
>>>> African-Americans had some ancestors that fought and killed to enslave
>>>> white people, would we be happy those statues?
>>>>
>>>> So, no, definitely not a good point. That's a false equivalence.
>>>
>>> OK, now take a look at some of the actions George Washington took
>>> against Indians. Would you suggest tearing down statues of him? Why
>>> or why not?
>>
>> Really? Do you seriously think the faults of one person makes anything
>> okay? GW did lots of good things. Can you say the same for the
>> confederate traitors?
>>
>> Not that I'm the type to stand reverently in front of a statue. It's
>> all a bunch of dangerous hero worship.
>
> Bobbie Lee did a lot of good things, from the Mexican War - but you may be
> against that - to being president of Washington and Lee University. John
> Brown was a terrorist who killed innocent people and tried to start an
> uprising against the US government, but they have put up statues to him,
> too.

I was wondering whether there were any John Brown statues.
Now I know. This one has been defaced:

http://tinyurl.com/y5sh7hp6

Interesting that John Brown was captured by Robert E. Lee.
The terrorist bit is interesting (Wikipedia):

Brown's actions as an abolitionist and the tactics he used still make
him a controversial figure today. He is both memorialized as a heroic
martyr and visionary, and vilified as a madman and a terrorist.
Historian James Loewen surveyed American history textbooks and noted
that historians considered Brown perfectly sane until about 1890, but
generally portrayed him as insane from about 1890 until 1970, when new
interpretations began to gain ground.

As far as Robert E. Lee, nobody is all bad, but I think we know
the bottom line with Robert E. Lee. If I put up a statue,
the message is pretty clear.


--
Dan Espen
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383943 is a reply to message #383920] Wed, 15 May 2019 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 14 May 2019 22:06:50 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

[snip]

> https://dilbert.com/strip/2000-08-16

Slow, slow, slow. Many people can manage PowerPoint poisoning
with less than a dozen slides. <G>

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383944 is a reply to message #383925] Wed, 15 May 2019 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 14 May 2019 18:24:14 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> writes:

[snip]

>> OK, now take a look at some of the actions George Washington took
>> against Indians. Would you suggest tearing down statues of him? Why
>> or why not?
>
> Really? Do you seriously think the faults of one person makes anything
> okay? GW did lots of good things. Can you say the same for the
> confederate traitors?

Interesting how point-of-view makes a difference, eh?

I have not studied the ACW as much as a Usonian probably has so I
do not know.

> Not that I'm the type to stand reverently in front of a statue. It's
> all a bunch of dangerous hero worship.

It is remembrance. Sometimes, it is of the good, and sometimes,
it is of the bad.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #383951 is a reply to message #383917] Wed, 15 May 2019 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 5:55:42 PM UTC-4, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

> I have heard of PowerPoint bans. AFAIAC, I think it is an
> excellent idea. PowerPoint (and other such tools), in the hands of a
> skilled speaker, can be very useful. In the hands of someone who is
> not a skilled speaker, it breeds bad habits.

One the training courses to be a systems analyst included a
chapter on giving presentations. Lot of good tips. One
was not jingling your keys or changes while speaking.

Too often proper public speaking tips are not taught and
they should be.
Re: 360 supercomputers, was Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers [message #384592 is a reply to message #383501] Tue, 25 June 2019 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alan Bowler is currently offline  Alan Bowler
Messages: 185
Registered: July 2012
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Senior Member
On 2019-05-02 1:29 p.m., timcaffrey420@gmail.com wrote:
> (And really, on the CDC 6000 series there was only one PP, it
> was just multiplexed (barrel execution) by 10).
> 4K 12 bit words, 18 bit accumulator.

Isn't that called hyper-threading today?
Re: 360 supercomputers, was Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers [message #384593 is a reply to message #384592] Tue, 25 June 2019 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> writes:
> On 2019-05-02 1:29 p.m., timcaffrey420@gmail.com wrote:
>> (And really, on the CDC 6000 series there was only one PP, it
>> was just multiplexed (barrel execution) by 10).
>> 4K 12 bit words, 18 bit accumulator.
>
> Isn't that called hyper-threading today?

Not accuratly, no.

Hyperthreading simply overprovisions the superscaler nature of the
processor pipeline with additional register sets[*] (and internal
resources such as fifos and scoreboards) to create the illusion of multiple processors on a
single core.

[*] Including all (or most) of the privileged registers such
as the page table base register &c.
Re: 360 supercomputers, was Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers [message #384595 is a reply to message #384593] Tue, 25 June 2019 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 12:25:49 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> writes:
>> On 2019-05-02 1:29 p.m., timcaffrey420@gmail.com wrote:
>>> (And really, on the CDC 6000 series there was only one PP, it
>>> was just multiplexed (barrel execution) by 10).
>>> 4K 12 bit words, 18 bit accumulator.
>>
>> Isn't that called hyper-threading today?
>
> Not accuratly, no.
>
> Hyperthreading simply overprovisions the superscaler nature of the
> processor pipeline with additional register sets[*] (and internal
> resources such as fifos and scoreboards) to create the illusion of multiple processors on a
> single core.
>
> [*] Including all (or most) of the privileged registers such
> as the page table base register &c.

Barrel execution is very similar to simultaneous multiprocessing. Both create
the illusion of multiple computers on one physical CPU, both require multiple
sets of registers.

In fact, I would be inclined to say that barrel execution _is_ an example of
SMP. Not all SMP is barrel execution, however: barrel execution meant that the
CDC 6600's peripheral processors all ran at 1/10 the speed of the underlying
hardware even if some of them were idle - so the PP hardware always cycled
through the 10 virtual PPs in strict succession.

On an Intel processor with Intel Hyperthreading brand SMP, or on a Ryzen with
SMP, if there is no second thread, the core spends all its time on the first
one.

Barrel execution, thus, is the simplest and most primitive form of SMP. And, of
course, as the architecture of the peripheral processor was that of a CDC 1604,
it didn't have a pipeline, or page tables, to worry about - just an accumulator
and a carry bit.

John Savard
Re: 360 supercomputers, was Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers [message #384596 is a reply to message #384592] Tue, 25 June 2019 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 12:17:15 PM UTC-6, Alan Bowler wrote:

> Isn't that called hyper-threading today?

No! HyperThreading is an Intel trademark. Only Intel processors can ever have
HyperThreading.

Of course, AMD's Ryzen processors do have SMT, Simultaneous Multi-threading, which
is the generic name for the technology.

John Savard
Re: 360 supercomputers, was Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers [message #384597 is a reply to message #384595] Tue, 25 June 2019 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: timcaffrey420

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 12:25:49 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> writes:
>>> On 2019-05-02 1:29 p.m., timcaffrey420@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> (And really, on the CDC 6000 series there was only one PP, it
>>>> was just multiplexed (barrel execution) by 10).
>>>> 4K 12 bit words, 18 bit accumulator.
>>>
>>> Isn't that called hyper-threading today?
>>
>> Not accuratly, no.
>>
>> Hyperthreading simply overprovisions the superscaler nature of the
>> processor pipeline with additional register sets[*] (and internal
>> resources such as fifos and scoreboards) to create the illusion of multiple processors on a
>> single core.
>>
>> [*] Including all (or most) of the privileged registers such
>> as the page table base register &c.
>
> Barrel execution is very similar to simultaneous multiprocessing. Both create
> the illusion of multiple computers on one physical CPU, both require multiple
> sets of registers.
>
> In fact, I would be inclined to say that barrel execution _is_ an example of
> SMP. Not all SMP is barrel execution, however: barrel execution meant that the
> CDC 6600's peripheral processors all ran at 1/10 the speed of the underlying
> hardware even if some of them were idle - so the PP hardware always cycled
> through the 10 virtual PPs in strict succession.
>
> On an Intel processor with Intel Hyperthreading brand SMP, or on a Ryzen with
> SMP, if there is no second thread, the core spends all its time on the first
> one.
>
> Barrel execution, thus, is the simplest and most primitive form of SMP. And, of
> course, as the architecture of the peripheral processor was that of a CDC 1604,
> it didn't have a pipeline, or page tables, to worry about - just an accumulator
> and a carry bit.
>
> John Savard

The PPs were one's complement, there was no carry bit (or interrupts).
- Tim
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384738 is a reply to message #383723] Tue, 02 July 2019 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alan Bowler is currently offline  Alan Bowler
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On 2019-05-08 6:19 p.m., hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> One reason Hollywood wanted digital was to eliminate the cost
> of making and shipping prints (expensive), and prints would
> deteriorate (scratch, dirt, and breaks) while shown.

Yes. Burning and mailing a DVD cost less than shipping a single
film reel.

> (Eliminating piracy was another factor).

Not sure how. It wasn't worthwhile to demand the theatres
ship back the DVDs. Today I suppose that the film is often
shipped over the internet, and there may be no DVD to to walkies.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384739 is a reply to message #383847] Tue, 02 July 2019 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alan Bowler is currently offline  Alan Bowler
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On 2019-05-12 11:54 a.m., JimP wrote:
>
> I thought some of the statues pre-dated the 20th century.

A few maybe. Most are 20th century.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384740 is a reply to message #383928] Tue, 02 July 2019 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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There was no lawful government in the United States at the time. The government that existed countenanced slavery, and so its victims were within their rights to demand its surrender.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384741 is a reply to message #384738] Tue, 02 July 2019 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 17:24:44 -0400, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca>
wrote:
> On 2019-05-08 6:19 p.m., hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> One reason Hollywood wanted digital was to eliminate the cost
>> of making and shipping prints (expensive), and prints would
>> deteriorate (scratch, dirt, and breaks) while shown.
>
> Yes. Burning and mailing a DVD cost less than shipping a single
> film reel.
>
>> (Eliminating piracy was another factor).
>
> Not sure how. It wasn't worthwhile to demand the theatres
> ship back the DVDs. Today I suppose that the film is often
> shipped over the internet, and there may be no DVD to to walkies.

Downloaded from satellite. Found this out when I was looking at the
few drive-in movie theaters still open a few years ago.

--
Jim
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384742 is a reply to message #384739] Tue, 02 July 2019 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 17:33:31 -0400, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca>
wrote:
> On 2019-05-12 11:54 a.m., JimP wrote:
>>
>> I thought some of the statues pre-dated the 20th century.
>
> A few maybe. Most are 20th century.

I can see statues memorializing someone, even on the wrong side of a
war or battle, but some of them were unnecessary.

I have wondered if there are any statues/memorials for the Native
Americans who took part in Battle of Little Big Horn/Greasy Grass.

Certainly a bunch of them for the 7th Cavalry there.

--
Jim
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384744 is a reply to message #384740] Tue, 02 July 2019 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> There was no lawful government in the United States at the time. The
> government that existed countenanced slavery, and so its victims were
> within their rights to demand its surrender.
>

This is nonsense.

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384745 is a reply to message #384742] Tue, 02 July 2019 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 17:33:31 -0400, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca>
> wrote:
>> On 2019-05-12 11:54 a.m., JimP wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought some of the statues pre-dated the 20th century.
>>
>> A few maybe. Most are 20th century.
>
> I can see statues memorializing someone, even on the wrong side of a
> war or battle, but some of them were unnecessary.
>
> I have wondered if there are any statues/memorials for the Native
> Americans who took part in Battle of Little Big Horn/Greasy Grass.

There should be. You would know better than I, but my impression is that
building statues or monuments isn’t part of native tradition. Better to
hold ceremonies and make something ephemeral that is ritually burned or
destroyed at the end. I imagine this occurs on a regular basis.

>
> Certainly a bunch of them for the 7th Cavalry there.
>
> --
> Jim
>



--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384746 is a reply to message #384742] Tue, 02 July 2019 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Swallow is currently offline  Andrew Swallow
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On 02/07/2019 22:42, JimP wrote:
> I have wondered if there are any statues/memorials for the Native
> Americans who took part in Battle of Little Big Horn/Greasy Grass.
>
> Certainly a bunch of them for the 7th Cavalry there.

if the Indians want statues they can make and pay for them themselves.
Plenty of cassinos to house the statues.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384747 is a reply to message #384744] Tue, 02 July 2019 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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Oh, it is complicated.
On the one hand, if bombing Pearl Harbor had consequences for Japan, why shouldn't
aggression against certain black people have consequences for the United States?
On the other hand, given that the North shed its blood to end slavery, why should it owe black Americans anything more?
Despite slavery, from the beginning, the United States was a democracy, and
therefore had the capacity to see its errors and correct them.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384748 is a reply to message #384747] Tue, 02 July 2019 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> Oh, it is complicated.
> On the one hand, if bombing Pearl Harbor had consequences for Japan, why shouldn't
> aggression against certain black people have consequences for the United States?
> On the other hand, given that the North shed its blood to end slavery,
> why should it owe black Americans anything more?
> Despite slavery, from the beginning, the United States was a democracy, and
> therefore had the capacity to see its errors and correct them.
>

The problem is that it’s the _absence_ of slavery that’s the aberration.
Slavery was nearly universal around the world until the blink of an eye
ago. The USA may have been among the last developed countries to abolish
slavery, but not by much. Many people of all races alive today probably
had ancestors who were slaves.

I agree about “reparations.” Over 300,000 young mostly white men died to
free the ancestors of the people who now seem to believe the country owes
them something more.

--
Pete
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384752 is a reply to message #383723] Tue, 02 July 2019 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
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hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> One reason Hollywood wanted digital was to eliminate the cost of
> making and shipping prints (expensive), and prints would deteriorate
> (scratch, dirt, and breaks) while shown. (Eliminating piracy was
> another factor).

towards end of last century we had several meetings with hollywood about
move to digital (one of the guys in the meetings would tell stories
about his oscar).

they had lots of plans

1) move to digital encrypted as part of countermeasure to piracy, some
of the piracy was low quality somebody recording low quality from
theater seat ... but there was quite a bit that was high quality film
reproduction.

2) move to TI projection chip, minimizing gap between decryption and
projection, also eliminate film, modern film projection is really hot
and gives off lots of fumes ... projection booth costs huge amount of
money for gov. regulations dealing with fumes) also quickly degrades
film; substantial savings in not having film projection booth that
handles fumes.

3) combine digital projection with electronic tracking admissions with
electronic funds transfers ... lots of theaters were taking 3-6 months
to pay studios for showing film and notorious for under reporting
attendance.

at that time TI projection chip was only capable of 35MM small theater
.... but they were planning that it wouldn't be long before it was 70MM
for large theaters.

a couple old posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#61 TV Big Bang 10/12/09
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#44 Digital projection conversion costs theatens drive-ins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#49 Digital projection conversion costs theatens drive-ins

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384753 is a reply to message #384748] Tue, 02 July 2019 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:32:44 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> Oh, it is complicated.
>> On the one hand, if bombing Pearl Harbor had consequences for Japan, why shouldn't
>> aggression against certain black people have consequences for the United States?
>> On the other hand, given that the North shed its blood to end slavery,
>> why should it owe black Americans anything more?
>> Despite slavery, from the beginning, the United States was a democracy, and
>> therefore had the capacity to see its errors and correct them.
>>
>
> The problem is that it’s the _absence_ of slavery that’s the aberration.
> Slavery was nearly universal around the world until the blink of an eye
> ago. The USA may have been among the last developed countries to abolish
> slavery, but not by much. Many people of all races alive today probably
> had ancestors who were slaves.
>
> I agree about “reparations.” Over 300,000 young mostly white men died to
> free the ancestors of the people who now seem to believe the country owes
> them something more.

Has there even been a poll in which black people were asked if they
wanted "reparations"? This kind of thing is usually made up by white
college professors.
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384754 is a reply to message #384745] Tue, 02 July 2019 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 16:38:02 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 17:33:31 -0400, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2019-05-12 11:54 a.m., JimP wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I thought some of the statues pre-dated the 20th century.
>>>
>>> A few maybe. Most are 20th century.
>>
>> I can see statues memorializing someone, even on the wrong side of a
>> war or battle, but some of them were unnecessary.
>>
>> I have wondered if there are any statues/memorials for the Native
>> Americans who took part in Battle of Little Big Horn/Greasy Grass.
>
> There should be. You would know better than I, but my impression is that
> building statues or monuments isn’t part of native tradition. Better to
> hold ceremonies and make something ephemeral that is ritually burned or
> destroyed at the end. I imagine this occurs on a regular basis.

I probably should; however, I was raised white and my Native American
ancestry that I know of, they weren't involved. As far as I know.

I have read a book where someone known to the tribes involved, and
tgrusted by them to write what they told him, interviewed the surivors
in the 1950s. Some were the kids of the Native Americans involved. He
did talk to some warriors who were in their 90s who were involved.

The majority, according to them, information put out by whites is
nonsense or distorted. From what the Cavalry survivors said Custer
couldn't see well. He actually told the scouts that they didn't see
the large number of tipis they reported to him.

The scouts with the 7th Cavalry were from a tribe that didn't like the
Lakota and Cheyenne. And they didn't like them. So I am rather certain
they told Custer the truth, there was a much larger village there than
Custer was willing to accept.

It got him and many of his officers and men dead.

He was supposed to wait for General Terry, and they would make a
combined attack. Depending on which book you read, either its a rumor
or a fact stated by Custer, he attacked with just the 7th Cavalry so
he could ride the glory and become the next president. Don't forget,
it was Custer who exposed a member of President Grant's family as
corrupt.

--
Jim
Re: Packard Bell/Apple (Was: Sixteen general registers, 15 index registers) [message #384755 is a reply to message #384746] Tue, 02 July 2019 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 01:28:11 +0100, Andrew Swallow
<am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 02/07/2019 22:42, JimP wrote:
>> I have wondered if there are any statues/memorials for the Native
>> Americans who took part in Battle of Little Big Horn/Greasy Grass.
>>
>> Certainly a bunch of them for the 7th Cavalry there.
>
> if the Indians want statues they can make and pay for them themselves.
> Plenty of cassinos to house the statues.

And the Lakota don't have casinos last I read. They live on the
poorest reservation/county in the U.S. I presume so white people can
lord it over those whose ancestors kicked Custer's butt. Ya know, the
guy who worked for the Union in the US Civil War, but killed Native
American women and children while the men were out hunting.

--
Jim
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384756 is a reply to message #384748] Tue, 02 July 2019 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:32:44 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> Oh, it is complicated.
>> On the one hand, if bombing Pearl Harbor had consequences for Japan, why shouldn't
>> aggression against certain black people have consequences for the United States?
>> On the other hand, given that the North shed its blood to end slavery,
>> why should it owe black Americans anything more?
>> Despite slavery, from the beginning, the United States was a democracy, and
>> therefore had the capacity to see its errors and correct them.
>>
>
> The problem is that it’s the _absence_ of slavery that’s the aberration.
> Slavery was nearly universal around the world until the blink of an eye
> ago. The USA may have been among the last developed countries to abolish
> slavery, but not by much. Many people of all races alive today probably
> had ancestors who were slaves.

Some Native American tribes had slaves, but from what I have read most
tribes let the slave work up in their society. Some did.

> I agree about “reparations.” Over 300,000 young mostly white men died to
> free the ancestors of the people who now seem to believe the country owes
> them something more.

I do find it fascinating that two groups of white people, Spanish
descendants and England/Frence descendants, argue over whose land it
is... when they took it by disease, force, and get someone drunk to
sign a land deal. Two thieves arguing over whom the Western hemisphere
belongs to, when it belongs to neither.

Yeah, it all happened in the past.

--
Jim
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384757 is a reply to message #384754] Tue, 02 July 2019 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
> He was supposed to wait for General Terry, and they would make a
> combined attack. Depending on which book you read, either its a rumor
> or a fact stated by Custer, he attacked with just the 7th Cavalry so
> he could ride the glory and become the next president. Don't forget,
> it was Custer who exposed a member of President Grant's family as
> corrupt.

I've seen this version a number of places (he was to wait, but split his
forces and attacked) ... "The Battle of the Little Bighorn, 1876"
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/custer.htm

genocide strategy goes up to Sheriden

The Comanche Empire
https://www.amazon.com/Comanche-Empire-Lamar-Western-History -ebook/dp/B001HZZ05C/
loc4690-93:

When planning Comanche campaigns, the U.S. Army was able to draw on
its rapidly accumulating experience in fighting the Plains
Indians. The Lakota wars had revealed that regular soldiers, although
armed with Colt revolvers and Winchester repeating rifles, were a poor
match for the highly motivated and mobile Indian warriors

loc4695-99:

Short of troops and wary of open battles, the army set out to deprive
the Comanches of shelter and sustenance by destroying their winter
camps, food supplies, and horse herds. By the early 1870s this kind of
total warfare against entire populations was an established practice
in the U.S. Army. Sherman had pioneered it against the Confederacy in
his "March to the Sea," and Sheridan had introduced a stripped-down
version of it to the plains in his 1868-69 winter campaign against the
Cheyennes.

.... snip ...

except Sherman wasn't slaughtering women and children, practicing
genocide. "Generals South, Generals North: The Commanders of the Civil
War Reconsidered"
https://www.amazon.com/Generals-South-North-Commanders-Recon sidered-ebook/dp/B012A1WML6/
loc6085-88:

Despite the mixed results of his approach to cavalry and the moral
ambiguity (in the Indian Wars verging on genocide) of his policy of
waging war on civilians, it cannot be denied that Sheridan was a
superb leader of troops, a fine tactician, and an aggressive fighter,
who was especially effective in forcing Lee to surrender his Army of
Northern Virginia in the closing weeks of the Civil War.

..... snip ...

along with contributions by transcontinetal railroad also involved in
scamming of constition and supreme court about " corporations as
people". It started almost immediately ... but one of the most egregious
was Conkling arguing before the supreme court that the 14th amendment
met to include corporations as protected minorities

We the Corporations: How American Businesses Won Their Civil Rights
https://www.amazon.com/We-Corporations-American-Businesses-R ights-ebook/dp/B01M64LRDJ/
Originally, US corporations were entities that operate in public
interest, but then certain factions wanted those rights extended to
entities that can operate in self interest as well "people" rights under
constitution. pgxiii/loc45-50:

IN DECEMBER 1882, ROSCOE CONKLING, A FORMER SENATOR and close confidant
of President Chester Arthur, appeared before the justices of the Supreme
Court of the United States to argue that corporations like his client,
the Southern Pacific Railroad Company, were entitled to equal rights
under the Fourteenth Amendment. Although that provision of the
Constitution said that no state shall "deprive any person of life,
liberty, or property, without due process of law" or "deny to any person
within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws," Conkling
insisted the amendment's drafters intended to cover business
corporations too.

.... snip ...

By the time somebody reviewed all records involving the 14th admendment
and found there was absolutely no consideration of corporations as
people, there were 312 14th admendment cases involving corporations but
only 28 cases involving African Americans. Unfortunately by this time,
the scam resulted in significant legal precedent that corporations were
people, transcontinental railroad
http://phys.org/news/2012-01-railroad-hyperbole-echoes-dot-c om-frenzy.html
and Railroaded
https://www.amazon.com/Railroaded-Transcontinentals-Making-A merica-ebook/dp/B0051GST1U
pg77/pg1984-86:

By the end of the summer of 1873 the western railroads had, within the
span of two years, ended the Indian treaty system in the United States,
brought down a Canadian government, and nearly paralyzed the
U.S. Congress. The greatest blow remained to be delivered. The railroads
were about to bring down the North American economy.

pg510/loc10030-33:

The result was not only unneeded railroads whose effects were as often
bad as beneficial but also corruption of the markets and the
government. The men who directed this capital were frequently not
themselves capitalists. They were entrepreneurs who borrowed money or
collected subsidies. These entrepreneurs did not invent the railroad,
but they were inventing corporations, railroad systems, and new forms of
competition. Those things yielded both personal wealth and social
disasters.

pg515/loc10118-22:

The need to invest capital and labor in large amounts to maintain and
upgrade what had already been built was one debt owed to the past, but
the second one was what Charles Francis Adams in his days as a reformer
referred to as a tax on trade. All of the watered stock, money siphoned
off into private pockets, waste, and fraud that characterized the
building of the railroads created a corporate debt that had to be paid
through higher rates and scrimping on service. A shipper in 1885 was
still paying for the frauds of the 1860s.

.... snip ...


--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384758 is a reply to message #384757] Wed, 03 July 2019 02:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
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re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2019c.html#75 Packard Bell/Apple

a recent description

Custer's Luck: How Information, Assumptions and Experience Drive Our
Decision-Making
https://news.clearancejobs.com/2019/06/25/custers-luck-how-i nformation-assumptions-and-experience-drive-our-decision-mak ing/

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Re: Packard Bell/Apple [message #384759 is a reply to message #384748] Wed, 03 July 2019 07:08 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 7:32:46 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:

> I agree about “reparations.” Over 300,000 young mostly white men died to
> free the ancestors of the people who now seem to believe the country owes
> them something more.

Well, _of course_ the country owes them something more.

The life experiences of black people in America are not equivalent to those of
white people in America whose ancestors entered the United States at the same
time.

After the Civil War, the United States again betrayed black people by ending
Reconstruction hastily - before the Southern states were reformed to have
governments absolutely committed to total racial equality. The result was long
decades of segregation that further cemented the disadvantaged position of black
Americans.

Basically, being black in America instead of white... should be like being blond
or a redhead instead of a brunette - an utterly trivial distinction. If it is
not, something is wrong, which needs to be fixed.

This is not merely *obvious*. It is _axiomatic_, and hence beyond all
discussion, debate, or argument.

Since all people are fundamentally equal, therefore all racial groups are equal.
Hence, the genetic distribution of potential intelligence must be *identical*
between black people and white people in the United States, and if the
distribution of income, percentile by percentile, among blacks and among whites
is not identical, the *only possible cause* is discrimination, either present or
past.

This isn't terribly unreasonable thinking, even if it contains some logical
fallacies. You can't actually deduce the equal average intelligence of groups
from the equal legal rights of individuals; after all, equal legal rights don't
imply equal intelligence for individuals. However, a genuine racial differential
in intelligence would lead to questions about equality, and that does lead to
the conclusion, at least, that one would hope for it not to exist. Practical
experience suggests that black people are indeed roughly equal in innate
intelligence to ordinary white people, so the point doesn't really need to be
examined closely.

An obvious tragedy is that if legal discrimination had been abolished early in
the 1950s, instead of in the 1970s, as actually was the case, the problem would
have indeed "solved itself" without massive government wealth-redistribution
efforts inconsistent with American political culture. Black people could have
moved to the middle class once the doors were opened... *during the postwar
economic boom*.

The lack of an understanding of economic science sufficient to abolish business
cycles, and maintain the economy at a perpetual "boom" state of full employment,
is the fundamental problem. Despite a desperate search during the Great
Depression, we don't control the economy so that it functions the way we wish to
tell it to.

No wonder many people are discontented, and rally to a demagogue who promises to
"Make America Great Again", even if he has no actual capacity to achieve that,
and has instead turned the nation into a laughing-stock internationally.

Of course, though, the political correctness crowd is part of the problem. One
big obstacle faced by hard-working law-abiding honest black Americans seeking to
better themselves... is the fear they face because of some black people who have
turned to crime. While poverty breeds crime, if the destructive cycle is to be
broken, leniency towards black criminals is not part of the cure. Rather,
severity is required, to suppress such crime sufficiently so that black
Americans in general are no longer perceived as a threat to personal safety..
That's a precondition for those who are law-abiding to make progress.

John Savard
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