| Re: LUsers [message #381859 is a reply to message #381856] |
Mon, 11 March 2019 23:43   |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>> use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>
>> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>> size of Japan's.
>
> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
any trouble educating their people.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381860 is a reply to message #381858] |
Mon, 11 March 2019 23:46 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 02:07:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 10:35:53 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>>> If the Chinese don't screw up theirs is going to be the
>>>> dominant economy in the 21st century and some variant of Chinese may
>>>> become the dominant language, so don't be so proud of English.
>
>>> The People's Republic of China is not a democracy with free elections and a free
>>> press. Thus, China has already "screwed up", terminally. Until that changes, it
>>> will never be anything but an enemy to the rest of the world.
>
>> If they have "screwed up" howcome they have gone from economically
>> insignificant to the second largest economy on the planet in less than
>> 30 years?
>
> They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
> ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381867 is a reply to message #381848] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 04:21 |
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Originally posted by: Brian Reay
On 11/03/2019 23:44, Peter Flass wrote:
> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>
>>>> I spent one year at the Bronx High School of Science
>>>> before we moved out of NYC. No defects encountered.
>>>> NYC has a bunch of special schools,
>>>> if you had the talent, there was a place for you.
>>>
>>> Probably not now, though. They’re so intent on “inclusion” that talented
>>> kids may be passed over in favor of someone from a group they like better.
>>> Also, I think now the teachers spend more time teaching to the test. It’s
>>> not just regents, but every year or two there are state-mandated tests in
>>> NY.
>>>
>>
>> Is this your opinion? Or have you actually investigated this by talking with
>> active teachers or pupils?
>>
>
> I’ve spoken to people who know. The good teachers hate the tests, but the
> scores are important for the schools, the teachers, and the students.
>
We have standard tests in the UK. Some teachers don't like them. Others
think they are a good idea. The latter group tend to be the ones which
get the better results.
The UK tests determine if pupils are making the progress expected. The
grading recognising the spread you would expect, even exceptional
performance in some cases.
As for 'teaching to the test', that is one of those nonsense claims
thrown around by those who oppose testing.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381873 is a reply to message #381867] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 05:56 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 08:21:54 +0000, Brian Reay wrote:
> As for 'teaching to the test', that is one of those nonsense claims
> thrown around by those who oppose testing.
I disagree. I have seen many new undergraduate students arrive with
supposedly good A level results, and it turns out that all they know is
rote learning, with no understanding. Some, of course, really do
understand.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: LUsers [message #381874 is a reply to message #381825] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 06:43 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-03-11, Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-03-10, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Humanity would be way better off with a common language to unite us.
>> Since USAians already speak that common language, learning another
>> language makes little sense to me.
>
> English is the only true human language. Everyone thinks in English
> and translates those English thoughts into whatever spurious babble
> they've been taught is their "language." This is why if you yell at
> foreigners in English long enough they *will* ultimately understand
> you - it's just a matter of penetrating that filter.
>
Basil Fawlty could not put it better.
--
Maus@ireland.com
Opinions offered om any subject:
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| Re: LUsers [message #381876 is a reply to message #381859] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 08:36 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 23:43:00 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>
>>> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>> size of Japan's.
>>
>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>
> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
> any trouble educating their people.
True, Russia did educate their people. Sometimes claiming they
invented things first, when they didn't.
--
Jim
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| Re: LUsers [message #381877 is a reply to message #381867] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 08:37 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 08:21:54 +0000, Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> wrote:
> On 11/03/2019 23:44, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>>
>>>> > I spent one year at the Bronx High School of Science
>>>> > before we moved out of NYC. No defects encountered.
>>>> > NYC has a bunch of special schools,
>>>> > if you had the talent, there was a place for you.
>>>>
>>>> Probably not now, though. Theyre so intent on inclusion that talented
>>>> kids may be passed over in favor of someone from a group they like better.
>>>> Also, I think now the teachers spend more time teaching to the test. Its
>>>> not just regents, but every year or two there are state-mandated tests in
>>>> NY.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is this your opinion? Or have you actually investigated this by talking with
>>> active teachers or pupils?
>>>
>>
>> Ive spoken to people who know. The good teachers hate the tests, but the
>> scores are important for the schools, the teachers, and the students.
>>
>
>
> We have standard tests in the UK. Some teachers don't like them. Others
> think they are a good idea. The latter group tend to be the ones which
> get the better results.
>
> The UK tests determine if pupils are making the progress expected. The
> grading recognising the spread you would expect, even exceptional
> performance in some cases.
>
> As for 'teaching to the test', that is one of those nonsense claims
> thrown around by those who oppose testing.
Teaching to the test is happening in the US to the detriment of
education here.
--
Jim
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| Re: LUsers [message #381880 is a reply to message #381817] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 11:01 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-03-11, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 4:11:17 PM UTC-6, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> For Chinese to become more widespread they'd first need an alphabet.
>
> I tend to agree with that.
>
> But for English to be accepted as the world language, spelling reform would help.
>
> John Savard
Hey, great, another dialect.
--
Maus@ireland.com
Opinions offered om any subject:
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| Re: LUsers [message #381881 is a reply to message #381571] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 11:03 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-03-11, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-03-11, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 18:11:16 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>
>> But that's their second language. Do many schools still teach English
>> after the independence from Britain?
>
> All of them.
>
English is important in India as an independent language, as against Hindi.
--
Maus@ireland.com
Opinions offered om any subject:
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| Re: LUsers [message #381885 is a reply to message #381860] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 13:25 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 9:46:07 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
>> ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
> Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
> atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
so.
John Savard
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| Re: LUsers [message #381888 is a reply to message #381860] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 15:03 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 23:46:08 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>> The People's Republic of China is not a democracy with free elections and a free
>>>> press. Thus, China has already "screwed up", terminally. Until that changes, it
>>>> will never be anything but an enemy to the rest of the world.
>>
>>> If they have "screwed up" howcome they have gone from economically
>>> insignificant to the second largest economy on the planet in less than
>>> 30 years?
>>
>> They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
>> ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
>
> Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
> atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
The US was "world pre-eminent" in the 1940s already before they
atom-bombed Japan. For example were they providing goods for the UK while
WW II still raged on without hurting their own people. Besides the
merchant ships sank by German U-Boots. Building a lot of war equipment
like numerous aircraft carriers.
After WW II the US increased their strength even further.
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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| Re: LUsers [message #381890 is a reply to message #381859] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 15:45 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>
>>> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>> size of Japan's.
>>
>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>
> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
> any trouble educating their people.
>
Russia’s economy is a joke, and always has been. It would seem they should
be a rich and prosperous country, but the grafters skim off too much, I
guess.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381891 is a reply to message #381867] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 15:45 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> wrote:
> On 11/03/2019 23:44, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>>
>>>> > I spent one year at the Bronx High School of Science
>>>> > before we moved out of NYC. No defects encountered.
>>>> > NYC has a bunch of special schools,
>>>> > if you had the talent, there was a place for you.
>>>>
>>>> Probably not now, though. They’re so intent on “inclusion” that talented
>>>> kids may be passed over in favor of someone from a group they like better.
>>>> Also, I think now the teachers spend more time teaching to the test. It’s
>>>> not just regents, but every year or two there are state-mandated tests in
>>>> NY.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is this your opinion? Or have you actually investigated this by talking with
>>> active teachers or pupils?
>>>
>>
>> I’ve spoken to people who know. The good teachers hate the tests, but the
>> scores are important for the schools, the teachers, and the students.
>>
>
>
> We have standard tests in the UK. Some teachers don't like them. Others
> think they are a good idea. The latter group tend to be the ones which
> get the better results.
>
> The UK tests determine if pupils are making the progress expected. The
> grading recognising the spread you would expect, even exceptional
> performance in some cases.
>
> As for 'teaching to the test', that is one of those nonsense claims
> thrown around by those who oppose testing.
>
>
No, I’ve seen it. For example, English teachers don’t have the time to read
another book or do another creative writing assignment. Science teachers
can’t spare the class time for interesting demonstrations because the
students have to memorize stuff. You can fill in the blanks for history,
foreign language, etc.
I’m not saying such tests are bad, but the time spent preparing for them
tends to squeeze out many interesting topics that might spark the students’
interest in the subject.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381892 is a reply to message #381571] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 15:45 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-03-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 9:18:32 AM UTC-6, tracym...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> English is the x86 architecture of languages -- inferior, but widely used and
>>>> will probably wind up being a de-facto standard.
>>>
>>> The English language isn't inferior. The English writing system, with its
>>> inconsistent spelling, is inferior. A language is something people speak, as any
>>> linguist will tell you.
>>>
>>> Aside from that correction, though, what you have written is basically true:
>>> English, inconsistent spelling and all, is likely to become the world's _de
>>> facto_ standard language because of its economic and technological dominance.
>>>
>>> But I think an English-speaking world is far from certain. Instead, Google
>>> translate might end up being perfected... and then everybody will be able to
>>> talk to one another even though everybody sticks with their own language.
>>
>> IME, Google translate is about 80% accurate, but that’s about as useful as
>> OCR being 90% accurate. It still needs a person to go over it. Completely
>> accurate machine translation requires AI orders of magnitude better than
>> currently exist, due to ambiguities in every human language.
>
> It's a far better use of human translator time (about 90%, according
> to measurements we (*) did) to have them polish machine translation
> output than to have them do translations by hand, from scratch.
>
> (* "We" was Xerox Tech Pubs. We translated manuals using either SYSTRAN
> or ALPS and then had human translators polish them up. Perhaps obviously,
> technical manuals are easier to machine translate than free text since they
> can use a constrained vocabulary and a lot of boiler-plate.)
>
>
Sure. I’ve done a few Wikipedia articles by starting with a google
translation, but sometimes the results are hilarious, and need a lot of
“polish.” Often it’s just a completely crazy word choice when there are
several alternative translations available, but in others it’s totally
baffled by the syntax.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381893 is a reply to message #381876] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 15:45 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 23:43:00 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> > use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>>
>>>> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>>> size of Japan's.
>>>
>>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>>> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>>
>> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
>> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
>> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
>> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
>> any trouble educating their people.
>
> True, Russia did educate their people. Sometimes claiming they
> invented things first, when they didn't.
Russia had, and has, a lot of excellent scientists and engineers. In many
cases their educational standards ate top-notch, I believe. It’s their
complete mismanagement of everything that holds them back.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381894 is a reply to message #381885] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 15:45 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 9:46:07 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>> They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
>>> ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
>
>> Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
>> atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
>
> Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
> respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
> umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
> so.
The Japanese are happy to have us lead, too. We’re pushing them into taking
a bigger role in their own defense.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381895 is a reply to message #381890] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 16:23 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> > use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>>
>>>> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>>> size of Japan's.
>>>
>>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>>> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>>
>> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
>> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
>> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
>> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
>> any trouble educating their people.
>>
>
> Russia’s economy is a joke, and always has been. It would seem they should
> be a rich and prosperous country, but the grafters skim off too much, I
> guess.
How many Russians do you personally know?
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| Re: LUsers [message #381897 is a reply to message #381888] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 16:55 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 3:03:53 PM UTC-4, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 23:46:08 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> >The People's Republic of China is not a democracy with free elections and a free
>>>> >press. Thus, China has already "screwed up", terminally. Until that changes, it
>>>> >will never be anything but an enemy to the rest of the world.
>>>
>>>> If they have "screwed up" howcome they have gone from economically
>>>> insignificant to the second largest economy on the planet in less than
>>>> 30 years?
>>>
>>> They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
>>> ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
>>
>> Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
>> atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
>
> The US was "world pre-eminent" in the 1940s already before they
> atom-bombed Japan. For example were they providing goods for the UK while
> WW II still raged on without hurting their own people. Besides the
> merchant ships sank by German U-Boots. Building a lot of war equipment
> like numerous aircraft carriers.
>
> After WW II the US increased their strength even further.
WW I left England weak and the U.S. strong. But the U.S.
still had some limitations compared to Europe. The U.S.
was rather weak in the 1930s.
WW II brought out U.S. ability. We had adequate fallow
industrial plant and cheap raw materials that could be utilized
to fight the war (cheap raw materials helped a lot). The US
was also mostly safe from enemy attack.
The US had enough industrial plant that it could throw
massive amounts of effort into making arms and be wasteful.
Being able to out-produce the enemy was a big factor in victory.
As to brain power, the U.S. developed a lot of innovation
during the WW II, but some of it was enabled for the many
foreign scientists we allowed in. Much of the Manhattan
Project, for example, was done by foreign-born scientists.
Could we have developed the Bomb without people like von Neuman,
Teller, Fermi, Fuchs, Szilard, Pearls, Hans Bethes,
Emilo Segre, etc? Also, the US utilized a lot of research in
Britain, plus fission was discovered in Germany.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381898 is a reply to message #381890] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 16:58 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 3:45:52 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> > use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>>
>>>> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>>> size of Japan's.
>>>
>>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>>> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>>
>> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
>> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
>> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
>> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
>> any trouble educating their people.
>>
>
> Russia’s economy is a joke, and always has been. It would seem they should
> be a rich and prosperous country, but the grafters skim off too much, I
> guess.
Yes, unfortunately Russia and the USSR before it managed to
snatch defeat from victory with a horribly inefficient and corrupt
political and economic system. The czars were a mess, but the
country was industrializing slowly under their rule. The
Bolshevik takeover ruined it. Even Lenin recognized that
and pulled back on communism.
Ironically, China, which had an equally lousy system (Mao did
far more damage than people realize), managed to be smart and
develop a powerful economy. Curiously, lots of American young
people love China, I guess it still being a dictatorship doesn't
bother them, and maybe they know enough to stay out of trouble.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381907 is a reply to message #381891] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 17:14 |
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Originally posted by: Brian Reay
On 12/03/2019 19:45, Peter Flass wrote:
> Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> wrote:
>> On 11/03/2019 23:44, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> > Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>>>
>>>> >> I spent one year at the Bronx High School of Science
>>>> >> before we moved out of NYC. No defects encountered.
>>>> >> NYC has a bunch of special schools,
>>>> >> if you had the talent, there was a place for you.
>>>> >
>>>> > Probably not now, though. They’re so intent on “inclusion” that talented
>>>> > kids may be passed over in favor of someone from a group they like better.
>>>> > Also, I think now the teachers spend more time teaching to the test. It’s
>>>> > not just regents, but every year or two there are state-mandated tests in
>>>> > NY.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Is this your opinion? Or have you actually investigated this by talking with
>>>> active teachers or pupils?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve spoken to people who know. The good teachers hate the tests, but the
>>> scores are important for the schools, the teachers, and the students.
>>>
>>
>>
>> We have standard tests in the UK. Some teachers don't like them. Others
>> think they are a good idea. The latter group tend to be the ones which
>> get the better results.
>>
>> The UK tests determine if pupils are making the progress expected. The
>> grading recognising the spread you would expect, even exceptional
>> performance in some cases.
>>
>> As for 'teaching to the test', that is one of those nonsense claims
>> thrown around by those who oppose testing.
>>
>>
>
> No, I’ve seen it. For example, English teachers don’t have the time to read
> another book or do another creative writing assignment. Science teachers
> can’t spare the class time for interesting demonstrations because the
> students have to memorize stuff. You can fill in the blanks for history,
> foreign language, etc.
>
> I’m not saying such tests are bad, but the time spent preparing for them
> tends to squeeze out many interesting topics that might spark the students’
> interest in the subject.
>
You've just exposed your lack of knowledge, their aren't National Tests
in History, Modern Languages, ... etc.- just the core topics.
School timetables are packed but it isn't testing that is the problem*.
The National Tests are only taken at a few key stages- not every year-
the content required to complete them is what should be studied anyway,
not just some arbitrary material,......
*For example, there is only one set of National Tests in Secondary
School, at the end of Key Stage 3 (year 9, about 14). One set of
National tests, in three subjects, between 11 and 18. There are no
National Tests at KS4 or 5, unless you confuse GSCEs and A levels with
National Assessment Tests.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381909 is a reply to message #381829] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 17:15 |
Alfred Falk
Messages: 195
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote in
news:00785e8f-d032-4c33-b817-a68ac61aa50d@googlegroups.com:
> On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 1:19:20 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 9:00:06 AM UTC-6, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> wrote:
>>> which of English and Mandarin comes out on top depends on who you
>>> ask, they're pretty much equal in terms of total number of speakers.
>>
>> That may be, but English is widely chosen as a second language by
>> people around the world, and that, rather than its total number of
>> speakers, is more relevant to how much it connects all humanity.
>
> I have no crystal ball, but _IF_ present trends continue, the
> U.S. will lose its world leadership and another country will fill
> the void. Americans would be well to study the experience of
> Great Britain. A hundred years ago they ran the world and had
> the resources to do so, but WW I hurt them badly and WW II finished
> them. (Compare the value of the British Pound then and now.)
>
> Sadly, IMHO, the US is decaying from internal causes. IMHO,
> some causes are:
> . Fractional extremist politics
> . Excessive litigation
> . Massive drug abuse
> . Excessive corporate greed.
> . Abandonment of rust belt workforce and communities.
If you wish to be depressed further, read "America, the Farewell Tour" by
Chris Hedges.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381911 is a reply to message #381859] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 17:27 |
Alfred Falk
Messages: 195
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in
news:7aae8et0mpv4ojc0vlj2pu7vd54jnhdg2q@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But
>>>> Japanese children use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>
>>> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>> size of Japan's.
>>
>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>
> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
> any trouble educating their people.
As for China being poor... you will not get that impression if you visit
major urban centers. (I can't speak for remote rural areas.)
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| Re: LUsers [message #381912 is a reply to message #381907] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 19:02 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> wrote:
> On 12/03/2019 19:45, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/03/2019 23:44, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> >> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >>> I spent one year at the Bronx High School of Science
>>>> >>> before we moved out of NYC. No defects encountered.
>>>> >>> NYC has a bunch of special schools,
>>>> >>> if you had the talent, there was a place for you.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Probably not now, though. They’re so intent on “inclusion” that talented
>>>> >> kids may be passed over in favor of someone from a group they like better.
>>>> >> Also, I think now the teachers spend more time teaching to the test. It’s
>>>> >> not just regents, but every year or two there are state-mandated tests in
>>>> >> NY.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Is this your opinion? Or have you actually investigated this by talking with
>>>> > active teachers or pupils?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I’ve spoken to people who know. The good teachers hate the tests, but the
>>>> scores are important for the schools, the teachers, and the students.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have standard tests in the UK. Some teachers don't like them. Others
>>> think they are a good idea. The latter group tend to be the ones which
>>> get the better results.
>>>
>>> The UK tests determine if pupils are making the progress expected. The
>>> grading recognising the spread you would expect, even exceptional
>>> performance in some cases.
>>>
>>> As for 'teaching to the test', that is one of those nonsense claims
>>> thrown around by those who oppose testing.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No, I’ve seen it. For example, English teachers don’t have the time to read
>> another book or do another creative writing assignment. Science teachers
>> can’t spare the class time for interesting demonstrations because the
>> students have to memorize stuff. You can fill in the blanks for history,
>> foreign language, etc.
>>
>> I’m not saying such tests are bad, but the time spent preparing for them
>> tends to squeeze out many interesting topics that might spark the students’
>> interest in the subject.
>>
>
> You've just exposed your lack of knowledge, their aren't National Tests
> in History, Modern Languages, ... etc.- just the core topics.
>
> School timetables are packed but it isn't testing that is the problem*.
> The National Tests are only taken at a few key stages- not every year-
> the content required to complete them is what should be studied anyway,
> not just some arbitrary material,......
>
> *For example, there is only one set of National Tests in Secondary
> School, at the end of Key Stage 3 (year 9, about 14). One set of
> National tests, in three subjects, between 11 and 18. There are no
> National Tests at KS4 or 5, unless you confuse GSCEs and A levels with
> National Assessment Tests.
>
I’m talking about New York State, not national tests.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381915 is a reply to message #381893] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 19:06 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 12:45:54 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 23:43:00 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> > <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> >> use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>>>
>>>> > Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>>> > size of Japan's.
>>>>
>>>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>>>> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>>>
>>> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
>>> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
>>> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
>>> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
>>> any trouble educating their people.
>>
>> True, Russia did educate their people. Sometimes claiming they
>> invented things first, when they didn't.
>
> Russia had, and has, a lot of excellent scientists and engineers. In many
> cases their educational standards ate top-notch, I believe. Its their
> complete mismanagement of everything that holds them back.
My dentist was trained in the Soviet Union. She does really good
work.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381916 is a reply to message #381885] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 19:08 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 9:46:07 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>> They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
>>> ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
>
>> Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
>> atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
>
> Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
> respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
> umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
> so.
Which nations are these?
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| Re: LUsers [message #381917 is a reply to message #381916] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 21:13 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 9:46:07 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>> They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
>>>> ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
>>
>>> Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
>>> atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
>>
>> Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
>> respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
>> umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
>> so.
>
> Which nations are these?
>
>
Taiwan, Korea, Poland (and most of eastern europe), Georgia, ...
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381918 is a reply to message #381895] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 21:25 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> > <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> >> use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>>>
>>>> > Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>>> > size of Japan's.
>>>>
>>>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>>>> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>>>
>>> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
>>> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
>>> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
>>> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
>>> any trouble educating their people.
>>>
>>
>> Russia’s economy is a joke, and always has been. It would seem they should
>> be a rich and prosperous country, but the grafters skim off too much, I
>> guess.
>
> How many Russians do you personally know?
Good point, but forming an opinion about a whole country
based on people you personally know doesn't work for me.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: LUsers [message #381919 is a reply to message #381917] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 22:09 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 18:13:49 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 9:46:07 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
>>>> > ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
>>>
>>>> Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
>>>> atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
>>>
>>> Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
>>> respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
>>> umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
>>> so.
>>
>> Which nations are these?
>>
>>
>
> Taiwan,
Fears China, was liberated from Japan
> Korea,
Where a formal state of war exists.
> Poland (and most of eastern europe), Georgia, ...
What leads you to believe that any of those are looking to the US for
leadership?
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| Re: LUsers [message #381921 is a reply to message #381917] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 22:30 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 7:13:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
>>> respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
>>> umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
>>> so.
>> Which nations are these?
> Taiwan, Korea, Poland (and most of eastern europe), Georgia, ...
And Israel, but I think he would dismiss *those* for obvious reasons.
So I was thinking of Canada, Australia, Britain, France, Norway and so on. But
also those.
John Savard
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| Re: LUsers [message #381931 is a reply to message #381921] |
Tue, 12 March 2019 23:15 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 19:30:50 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 7:13:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>>> Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
>>>> respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
>>>> umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
>>>> so.
>
>>> Which nations are these?
>
>> Taiwan, Korea, Poland (and most of eastern europe), Georgia, ...
>
> And Israel, but I think he would dismiss *those* for obvious reasons.
>
> So I was thinking of Canada, Australia, Britain, France, Norway and so on. But
> also those.
Now let's see, I recall a great deal of violence involving Americans
occurring in France, and a good bit of of it around England and
Australia.
Or do you think that driving the Nazis out of France was done
_peacefully_?
Are you off your meds? You're usually less loopy than this.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381932 is a reply to message #381907] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 00:15 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
|
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On 12/03/2019 21:14, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 12/03/2019 19:45, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/03/2019 23:44, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> >> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >>> I spent one year at the Bronx High School of Science
>>>> >>> before we moved out of NYC. No defects encountered.
>>>> >>> NYC has a bunch of special schools,
>>>> >>> if you had the talent, there was a place for you.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Probably not now, though. They’re so intent on “inclusion” that
>>>> >> talented
>>>> >> kids may be passed over in favor of someone from a group they like
>>>> >> better.
>>>> >> Also, I think now the teachers spend more time teaching to the
>>>> >> test. It’s
>>>> >> not just regents, but every year or two there are state-mandated
>>>> >> tests in
>>>> >> NY.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > Is this your opinion? Or have you actually investigated this by
>>>> > talking with
>>>> > active teachers or pupils?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I’ve spoken to people who know. The good teachers hate the tests,
>>>> but the
>>>> scores are important for the schools, the teachers, and the students.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have standard tests in the UK. Some teachers don't like them. Others
>>> think they are a good idea. The latter group tend to be the ones which
>>> get the better results.
>>>
>>> The UK tests determine if pupils are making the progress expected. The
>>> grading recognising the spread you would expect, even exceptional
>>> performance in some cases.
>>>
>>> As for 'teaching to the test', that is one of those nonsense claims
>>> thrown around by those who oppose testing.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No, I’ve seen it. For example, English teachers don’t have the time to
>> read
>> another book or do another creative writing assignment. Science teachers
>> can’t spare the class time for interesting demonstrations because the
>> students have to memorize stuff. You can fill in the blanks for history,
>> foreign language, etc.
>>
>> I’m not saying such tests are bad, but the time spent preparing for them
>> tends to squeeze out many interesting topics that might spark the
>> students’
>> interest in the subject.
>>
>
> You've just exposed your lack of knowledge, their aren't National Tests
> in History, Modern Languages, ... etc.- just the core topics.
>
> School timetables are packed but it isn't testing that is the problem*.
> The National Tests are only taken at a few key stages- not every year-
> the content required to complete them is what should be studied anyway,
> not just some arbitrary material,......
>
> *For example, there is only one set of National Tests in Secondary
> School, at the end of Key Stage 3 (year 9, about 14). One set of
> National tests, in three subjects, between 11 and 18. There are no
> National Tests at KS4 or 5, unless you confuse GSCEs and A levels with
> National Assessment Tests.
>
>
>
>
Err "GCSEs". Are one set of posters talking about the UK and a second
set talking about the USA?
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| Re: LUsers [message #381935 is a reply to message #381931] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 04:20 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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|
On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 9:15:08 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> Or do you think that driving the Nazis out of France was done
> _peacefully_?
No, I just think that it didn't constitute an attack on France.
John Savard
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| Re: LUsers [message #381937 is a reply to message #381919] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 09:24 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 18:13:49 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 9:46:07 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> > <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> They are doing well economically. But their political mistake bars them from
>>>> >> ever peacefully achieving true world pre-eminence.
>>>>
>>>> > Earth to Quadi, the US achieved "world pre-eminence" by dropping two
>>>> > atomic bombs on Japan. There waren't nothin' _peaceful_ about it.
>>>>
>>>> Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
>>>> respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
>>>> umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
>>>> so.
>>>
>>> Which nations are these?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Taiwan,
>
> Fears China, was liberated from Japan
>
>> Korea,
>
> Where a formal state of war exists.
>
>> Poland (and most of eastern europe), Georgia, ...
>
> What leads you to believe that any of those are looking to the US for
> leadership?
>
>
>
Poland is trying to get NATO to set up bases there. When a US army group
traveled thru by road recently for some exercises with the Polish Army
people lined the roads to celebrate. Nothing clears the mind as much as
living next door to Russia.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381938 is a reply to message #381921] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 09:24 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 7:13:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>>> Except for the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, and Italy, most of the nations that
>>>> respect and revere the United States, looking to it for leadership and a nuclear
>>>> umbrella, do not do so because the United States forced them militarily to do
>>>> so.
>
>>> Which nations are these?
>
>> Taiwan, Korea, Poland (and most of eastern europe), Georgia, ...
>
> And Israel, but I think he would dismiss *those* for obvious reasons.
>
> So I was thinking of Canada, Australia, Britain, France, Norway and so on. But
> also those.
>
I thought of Australia later. Apologies for not thinking of Canada, we’ve
been friends for so long I’m afraid we take you for granted. Here in
Phoenix this time of year we’re loaded with Canadians from Ontario to
British Columbia, there’s even a Canadian festival.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381939 is a reply to message #381932] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 09:24 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 12/03/2019 21:14, Brian Reay wrote:
>> On 12/03/2019 19:45, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/03/2019 23:44, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> > Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> >> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> >>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> I spent one year at the Bronx High School of Science
>>>> >>>> before we moved out of NYC. No defects encountered.
>>>> >>>> NYC has a bunch of special schools,
>>>> >>>> if you had the talent, there was a place for you.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Probably not now, though. They’re so intent on “inclusion” that
>>>> >>> talented
>>>> >>> kids may be passed over in favor of someone from a group they like
>>>> >>> better.
>>>> >>> Also, I think now the teachers spend more time teaching to the
>>>> >>> test. It’s
>>>> >>> not just regents, but every year or two there are state-mandated
>>>> >>> tests in
>>>> >>> NY.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Is this your opinion? Or have you actually investigated this by
>>>> >> talking with
>>>> >> active teachers or pupils?
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > I’ve spoken to people who know. The good teachers hate the tests,
>>>> > but the
>>>> > scores are important for the schools, the teachers, and the students.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have standard tests in the UK. Some teachers don't like them. Others
>>>> think they are a good idea. The latter group tend to be the ones which
>>>> get the better results.
>>>>
>>>> The UK tests determine if pupils are making the progress expected. The
>>>> grading recognising the spread you would expect, even exceptional
>>>> performance in some cases.
>>>>
>>>> As for 'teaching to the test', that is one of those nonsense claims
>>>> thrown around by those who oppose testing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, I’ve seen it. For example, English teachers don’t have the time to
>>> read
>>> another book or do another creative writing assignment. Science teachers
>>> can’t spare the class time for interesting demonstrations because the
>>> students have to memorize stuff. You can fill in the blanks for history,
>>> foreign language, etc.
>>>
>>> I’m not saying such tests are bad, but the time spent preparing for them
>>> tends to squeeze out many interesting topics that might spark the
>>> students’
>>> interest in the subject.
>>>
>>
>> You've just exposed your lack of knowledge, their aren't National Tests
>> in History, Modern Languages, ... etc.- just the core topics.
>>
>> School timetables are packed but it isn't testing that is the problem*.
>> The National Tests are only taken at a few key stages- not every year-
>> the content required to complete them is what should be studied anyway,
>> not just some arbitrary material,......
>>
>> *For example, there is only one set of National Tests in Secondary
>> School, at the end of Key Stage 3 (year 9, about 14). One set of
>> National tests, in three subjects, between 11 and 18. There are no
>> National Tests at KS4 or 5, unless you confuse GSCEs and A levels with
>> National Assessment Tests.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Err "GCSEs". Are one set of posters talking about the UK and a second
> set talking about the USA?
>
yes.
--
Pete
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| Re: LUsers [message #381941 is a reply to message #381912] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 10:53 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Brian Reay <no.sp@m.com> wrote:
>> On 12/03/2019 19:45, Peter Flass wrote:
>> School timetables are packed but it isn't testing that is the problem*.
>> The National Tests are only taken at a few key stages- not every year-
>> the content required to complete them is what should be studied anyway,
>> not just some arbitrary material,......
>>
>> *For example, there is only one set of National Tests in Secondary
>> School, at the end of Key Stage 3 (year 9, about 14). One set of
>> National tests, in three subjects, between 11 and 18. There are no
>> National Tests at KS4 or 5, unless you confuse GSCEs and A levels with
>> National Assessment Tests.
>>
>
> I’m talking about New York State, not national tests.
And Brian's talking about the UK. So what?
You're still presenting your opinion as fact; with which my sister
(who's retiring this year after 35 years of teaching) would
disagree.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381942 is a reply to message #381918] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 10:55 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> >> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> >>> use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>>> >
>>>> >> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>>> >> size of Japan's.
>>>> >
>>>> > How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>>>> > China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>>>>
>>>> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
>>>> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
>>>> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
>>>> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
>>>> any trouble educating their people.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Russia’s economy is a joke, and always has been. It would seem they should
>>> be a rich and prosperous country, but the grafters skim off too much, I
>>> guess.
>>
>> How many Russians do you personally know?
>
> Good point, but forming an opinion about a whole country
> based on people you personally know doesn't work for me.
Forming an opinion about a whole country based on fox news,
or any media reports is even worse.
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| Re: LUsers [message #381943 is a reply to message #381893] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 11:12 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 12:45:54 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 23:43:00 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> > <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> >> use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>>>
>>>> > Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>>> > size of Japan's.
>>>>
>>>> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>>>> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>>>
>>> Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
>>> and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
>>> has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
>>> ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
>>> any trouble educating their people.
>>
>> True, Russia did educate their people. Sometimes claiming they
>> invented things first, when they didn't.
>
> Russia had, and has, a lot of excellent scientists and engineers. In many
> cases their educational standards ate top-notch, I believe. Its their
> complete mismanagement of everything that holds them back.
I was referring to them claiming inventing the wheel, and several
stone/bronze age processes they didn't invent.
--
Jim
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| Re: LUsers [message #381944 is a reply to message #381942] |
Wed, 13 March 2019 11:14 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:26:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> > <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 5:17:42 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> >>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> Japan manages because unlike China it's a wealthy country. But Japanese children
>>>> >>>> use up a lot of school time learning Kanji.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Uh, don't looke now, Quadi, but China's economy is about twice the
>>>> >>> size of Japan's.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> How does that contradict China being poor and Japan being rich? Isn't
>>>> >> China's population _more_ than twice the size of Japan's?
>>>> >
>>>> > Actually my numbers were outdated, it's about three times as much now,
>>>> > and 2/3 of the US GDP. And growing rapidly. Yes, per capita China
>>>> > has less, but not that much less-right now they should be in the same
>>>> > ballpark as the Russia that you fear so much. And Russia never had
>>>> > any trouble educating their people.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Russia’s economy is a joke, and always has been. It would seem they should
>>>> be a rich and prosperous country, but the grafters skim off too much, I
>>>> guess.
>>>
>>> How many Russians do you personally know?
>>
>> Good point, but forming an opinion about a whole country
>> based on people you personally know doesn't work for me.
>
> Forming an opinion about a whole country based on fox news,
> or any media reports is even worse.
Any media reports?
Doesn't that rule out just about everything?
I have no idea why people can't tell Fox trades in lies.
When I hear on TV from multiple sources that California has
a larger economy than Russia, I don't doubt it, it seems
reasonable. Especially when Google search turns up:
California's GDP, at 2.448 trillion dollars is 80% larger that
Russia's GDP, at 1.3 trillion dollars.
and other sites have the same numbers.
I don't take media reports as gospel, but then I don't think
it's all lies either (with one notable exception).
--
Dan Espen
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