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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381235 is a reply to message #381234] |
Mon, 18 February 2019 12:36 |
mrbrad
Messages: 85 Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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On 2/18/2019 11:28 AM, D Finnigan wrote:
> fadden wrote:
>> Somebody found a working Apple II in the attic:
>>
>> My reaction was along the lines of, "well of course it works", but then we
>> do this on a regular basis. :-)
>>
>
> Next headline:
>
> Apple computer discovers 30 year old man still in working order
>
> :-P
>
wait
hold my beer
I could get up 20 apple //e's with 20 apple 10mb or 20mb siders in an
afternoon. Give me a day and with corvus/generic scsi's and apple ]['s
and apple //gs's and I could easily make that 40 units with hard drives
ack! maybe I should be playing with this stuff more than the stuff
sitting in cabinets :)
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381248 is a reply to message #381234] |
Mon, 18 February 2019 14:47 |
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Originally posted by: James Davis
On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 9:29:00 AM UTC-8, D Finnigan wrote:
> fadden wrote:
>> Somebody found a working Apple II in the attic:
>>
>> My reaction was along the lines of, "well of course it works", but then we
>> do this on a regular basis. :-)
>>
>
> Next headline:
>
> Apple computer discovers 30 year old man still in working order
>
> :-P
>
> --
> ]DF$
> The New Apple II User's Guide:
> https://macgui.com/newa2guide/
Apple computer, inc. or Apple II computer discovers 30 year old man still in working order? ;-D
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381285 is a reply to message #381283] |
Tue, 19 February 2019 14:29 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2019, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> cb meeks <cbmeeks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 11:16:17 AM UTC-5, fadden wrote:
>>> Somebody found a working Apple II in the attic:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/JohnFPfaff/status/1096973633736581121
>>>
>>> The story made it to CNN:
>>>
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/tech/30-year-old-apple-comput er-work-trnd/index.html
>>>
>>> My reaction was along the lines of, "well of course it works", but then
>>> we do this on a regular basis. :-)
>>
>> OK, I have over 90+ vintage computers including seven Apple IIe's (not
>> joking). MOST of my computer collection works.
>>
>> Where's my CNN story?
>>
>> LOL
>>
>
> In the (short-lived) age of disposable everything, encountering a machine
> older than yourself that still functions is evidently mind blowing.
>
>
Encountering a machine older than myself would be mind-blowing even if
dead, given that it's hard for me to even find any from the first half of
the 1980s, let alone from the 1970s. (And I was born less than a month
into the decade ;))
-uso.
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381287 is a reply to message #381283] |
Tue, 19 February 2019 15:28 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> cb meeks <cbmeeks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 11:16:17 AM UTC-5, fadden wrote:
>>> Somebody found a working Apple II in the attic:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/JohnFPfaff/status/1096973633736581121
>>>
>>> The story made it to CNN:
>>>
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/tech/30-year-old-apple-comput er-work-trnd/index.html
>>>
>>> My reaction was along the lines of, "well of course it works", but then
>>> we do this on a regular basis. :-)
>>
>> OK, I have over 90+ vintage computers including seven Apple IIe's (not
>> joking). MOST of my computer collection works.
>>
>> Where's my CNN story?
>>
>> LOL
>>
>
> In the (short-lived) age of disposable everything, encountering a machine
> older than yourself that still functions is evidently mind blowing.
>
A few weeks ago I made a long-distance phone call on a Western Electric
magneto telephone that was manufactured circa 1905. It had no changes to its
internal wiring whatsoever, except that I wired a modular jack to terminals
L1 and L2 for convenience.
Now *that* was mind-blowing for two reasons:
1.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on its own
2.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on the telephone network
--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381410 is a reply to message #381287] |
Sat, 23 February 2019 20:44 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> cb meeks <cbmeeks@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 11:16:17 AM UTC-5, fadden wrote:
>>>> Somebody found a working Apple II in the attic:
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/JohnFPfaff/status/1096973633736581121
>>>>
>>>> The story made it to CNN:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/tech/30-year-old-apple-comput er-work-trnd/index.html
>>>>
>>>> My reaction was along the lines of, "well of course it works", but then
>>>> we do this on a regular basis. :-)
>>>
>>> OK, I have over 90+ vintage computers including seven Apple IIe's (not
>>> joking). MOST of my computer collection works.
>>>
>>> Where's my CNN story?
>>>
>>> LOL
>>>
>>
>> In the (short-lived) age of disposable everything, encountering a machine
>> older than yourself that still functions is evidently mind blowing.
>>
>
> A few weeks ago I made a long-distance phone call on a Western Electric
> magneto telephone that was manufactured circa 1905. It had no changes to its
> internal wiring whatsoever, except that I wired a modular jack to terminals
> L1 and L2 for convenience.
>
> Now *that* was mind-blowing for two reasons:
> 1.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on its own
> 2.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on the telephone network
>
Yes, many are surprised to find that the phone network still supports pulse
dialing!
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381411 is a reply to message #381285] |
Sat, 23 February 2019 20:44 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Feb 2019, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>
>> cb meeks <cbmeeks@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 11:16:17 AM UTC-5, fadden wrote:
>>>> Somebody found a working Apple II in the attic:
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/JohnFPfaff/status/1096973633736581121
>>>>
>>>> The story made it to CNN:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/tech/30-year-old-apple-comput er-work-trnd/index.html
>>>>
>>>> My reaction was along the lines of, "well of course it works", but then
>>>> we do this on a regular basis. :-)
>>>
>>> OK, I have over 90+ vintage computers including seven Apple IIe's (not
>>> joking). MOST of my computer collection works.
>>>
>>> Where's my CNN story?
>>>
>>> LOL
>>>
>>
>> In the (short-lived) age of disposable everything, encountering a machine
>> older than yourself that still functions is evidently mind blowing.
>>
>>
>
> Encountering a machine older than myself would be mind-blowing even if
> dead, given that it's hard for me to even find any from the first half of
> the 1980s, let alone from the 1970s. (And I was born less than a month
> into the decade ;))
>
> -uso.
>
I was referring not only to computers, but to other machines as well—for
example, the ancient machines at the late NECCO factory that made
conversation hearts until this year, and hopefully soon again. ;-)
Younger folks don’t expect any machine to last more than a decade. ;-)
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381412 is a reply to message #381411] |
Sat, 23 February 2019 21:15 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, 23 Feb 2019, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Younger folks don’t expect any machine to last more than a decade. ;-)
Certainly a more modern machine wouldn't last that long. I've been lucky
to get 3 years out of a PC.
I have a stereo receiver that was left for dead ca. 1996, but that I found
worked just fine - and still works, and with the speakers that came with a
bookshelf stereo I got for my graduation from high school (that didn't
last very long) gives my PC much fuller audio than a pair of cheap powered
speakers.
-uso.
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381425 is a reply to message #381410] |
Sun, 24 February 2019 16:03 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
>> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>>
>>> In the (short-lived) age of disposable everything, encountering a
>>> machine
>>> older than yourself that still functions is evidently mind blowing.
>>>
>>
>> A few weeks ago I made a long-distance phone call on a Western Electric
>> magneto telephone that was manufactured circa 1905. It had no changes to
>> its
>> internal wiring whatsoever, except that I wired a modular jack to
>> terminals
>> L1 and L2 for convenience.
>>
>> Now *that* was mind-blowing for two reasons:
>> 1.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on its own
>> 2.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on the telephone
>> network
>>
>
> Yes, many are surprised to find that the phone network still supports
> pulse
> dialing!
>
Quite so! And in fact this particular telephone has no dial, so I had to use
another telephone on the same line to dial out.
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381434 is a reply to message #381425] |
Mon, 25 February 2019 02:45 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
>>> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In the (short-lived) age of disposable everything, encountering a
>>>> machine
>>>> older than yourself that still functions is evidently mind blowing.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A few weeks ago I made a long-distance phone call on a Western Electric
>>> magneto telephone that was manufactured circa 1905. It had no changes to
>>> its
>>> internal wiring whatsoever, except that I wired a modular jack to
>>> terminals
>>> L1 and L2 for convenience.
>>>
>>> Now *that* was mind-blowing for two reasons:
>>> 1.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on its own
>>> 2.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on the telephone
>>> network
>>>
>>
>> Yes, many are surprised to find that the phone network still supports
>> pulse
>> dialing!
>>
>
> Quite so! And in fact this particular telephone has no dial, so I had to use
> another telephone on the same line to dial out.
>
>
Ha!
I used to pulse dial with the short plastic “hook” of a phone (pulse or
tone) by rapidly depressing the hook woodpecker-style for each digit. I
told myself that the skill could come in handy in some dramatic
scenario...like sending S-O-S by pressing two wires together. ;-)
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381470 is a reply to message #381410] |
Tue, 26 February 2019 11:55 |
scott
Messages: 4237 Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <R-ydnZym26WVauzBnZ2dnUU7-V1QAAAA@giganews.com>,
Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
> D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
>> A few weeks ago I made a long-distance phone call on a Western Electric
>> magneto telephone that was manufactured circa 1905. It had no changes to its
>> internal wiring whatsoever, except that I wired a modular jack to terminals
>> L1 and L2 for convenience.
>>
>> Now *that* was mind-blowing for two reasons:
>> 1.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on its own
>> 2.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on the telephone network
>
> Yes, many are surprised to find that the phone network still supports pulse
> dialing!
These kids were given the simple task of dialing a phone number on a rotary
phone...perhaps a clue would've been that we still speak of "dialing" a
phone number when it's usually punched into a keypad of some sort anymore:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHNEzndgiFI
It would've been even funnier (if perhaps a bit unrealistic) to have them
dial a number without even the dial, let alone a keypad. Back in the day, I
dialed a number with just the switchhook, just to see if I could. (I was
able to get through to the time-and-temperature service, at least.)
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381471 is a reply to message #381434] |
Tue, 26 February 2019 12:55 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
>> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>> D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
>>>> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > In the (short-lived) age of disposable everything, encountering a
>>>> > machine
>>>> > older than yourself that still functions is evidently mind blowing.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> A few weeks ago I made a long-distance phone call on a Western Electric
>>>> magneto telephone that was manufactured circa 1905. It had no changes
>>>> to
>>>> its
>>>> internal wiring whatsoever, except that I wired a modular jack to
>>>> terminals
>>>> L1 and L2 for convenience.
>>>>
>>>> Now *that* was mind-blowing for two reasons:
>>>> 1.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on its own
>>>> 2.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on the telephone
>>>> network
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, many are surprised to find that the phone network still supports
>>> pulse
>>> dialing!
>>>
>>
>> Quite so! And in fact this particular telephone has no dial, so I had to
>> use
>> another telephone on the same line to dial out.
>>
>>
>
> Ha!
>
> I used to pulse dial with the short plastic “hook” of a phone (pulse or
> tone) by rapidly depressing the hook woodpecker-style for each digit. I
> told myself that the skill could come in handy in some dramatic
> scenario...like sending S-O-S by pressing two wires together. ;-)
Yes, I've done that too on much newer telephone sets, but the physical
construction and wiring of the switch hook is different in this magneto
telephone, and I wasn't able to pulse dial with it.
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381473 is a reply to message #381471] |
Tue, 26 February 2019 14:05 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
>>> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>>> D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
>>>> > Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In the (short-lived) age of disposable everything, encountering a
>>>> >> machine
>>>> >> older than yourself that still functions is evidently mind blowing.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > A few weeks ago I made a long-distance phone call on a Western Electric
>>>> > magneto telephone that was manufactured circa 1905. It had no changes
>>>> > to
>>>> > its
>>>> > internal wiring whatsoever, except that I wired a modular jack to
>>>> > terminals
>>>> > L1 and L2 for convenience.
>>>> >
>>>> > Now *that* was mind-blowing for two reasons:
>>>> > 1.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on its own
>>>> > 2.) here's a century-old telephone that still works on the telephone
>>>> > network
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Yes, many are surprised to find that the phone network still supports
>>>> pulse
>>>> dialing!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Quite so! And in fact this particular telephone has no dial, so I had to
>>> use
>>> another telephone on the same line to dial out.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ha!
>>
>> I used to pulse dial with the short plastic “hook” of a phone (pulse or
>> tone) by rapidly depressing the hook woodpecker-style for each digit. I
>> told myself that the skill could come in handy in some dramatic
>> scenario...like sending S-O-S by pressing two wires together. ;-)
>
> Yes, I've done that too on much newer telephone sets, but the physical
> construction and wiring of the switch hook is different in this magneto
> telephone, and I wasn't able to pulse dial with it.
Yep, too much mass on too long a lever for fast pulsing.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381478 is a reply to message #381412] |
Wed, 27 February 2019 09:30 |
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Originally posted by: joltenjoe
Dunno about that. My last 2 macs were in use for almost 10 years each until the operating system couldn’t be updated and one still works but runsb hot due to bad GPU design. I keep it around for firewire. I’m not so sure my 2017 will be in use by 2027 but who knows maybe it’ll surprise me.
Overall this big news story is just silly because unlike now, people didn’t expect disposable computers in 1983. I think the shock comes from the fact that everyone now thinks their new device should be thrown away and replaced after 2 years so they don’t expect to have a functional iPhone 30 years from now. This might be Steve’s dream of the Apple appliance that gets upgraded regularly and just consumes content and apps.
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381479 is a reply to message #381478] |
Wed, 27 February 2019 11:13 |
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Originally posted by: fadden
People used to worry whether the data they saved on CD-R would be readable in 20 years. These days computers don't come with optical drives, and major companies like Samsung are exiting the Blu-Ray player market. Those discs won't be readable in another 10 years because hardly anyone will have drives that can read them.
Pretty soon you'll say, "this Apple II was a desktop computer from 1977", and the response will be, "what's a desktop computer?"
(see also https://xkcd.com/2033/ )
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381480 is a reply to message #381479] |
Wed, 27 February 2019 13:15 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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fadden wrote:
> People used to worry whether the data they saved on CD-R would be readable
> in 20 years. These days computers don't come with optical drives, and
> major companies like Samsung are exiting the Blu-Ray player market. Those
> discs won't be readable in another 10 years because hardly anyone will
> have
> drives that can read them.
>
And those people were right to worry, because I have a handful of CD-R and
DVD-R discs burned in the mid-2000s where the coating is flaking off in
spots. And with it goes my data. I threw out a couple of these discs within
the past 3 years, and came across a few more several weeks ago.
And CD-RWs will go flat like a carbonated beverage after a couple years, and
lose your data, but I think this was known behavior.
--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381483 is a reply to message #381480] |
Wed, 27 February 2019 17:38 |
scott
Messages: 4237 Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <dog_cow-1551291140@macgui.com>,
D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
> And those people were right to worry, because I have a handful of CD-R and
> DVD-R discs burned in the mid-2000s where the coating is flaking off in
> spots. And with it goes my data. I threw out a couple of these discs within
> the past 3 years, and came across a few more several weeks ago.
CDs are susceptible to damage because the data layer is right underneath one
side of the disc, making it relatively easy to scratch. If it starts
flaking, say bye-bye to your data (which you've apparently had happen). The
data layer in DVDs (and Blu-ray discs, while we're at it) is buried near the
middle of the disc, surrounded on both sides by polycarbonate. The label
flaking off a DVD shouldn't affect readability. Dye stability and the seal
around the perimeter of the disc would affect it; unstable dye and/or a bad
seal would tend to lead to discs going bad.
I've been archiving files on my home media server to BD-R for over six
years, 20 GB per disc (the remaining 5 GB is used for parity data to recover
from whatever degradation might occur). I have over 400 of them, spread
across three binders that I keep in my office at work, next to a second
server that gets synhcronized daily. BD-R, at least in its HTL form, uses
an inorganic phase-change alloy instead of organic dye for its recording
layer; this should be more stable. I've already had to do one restore from
my media set (the second server's only been running the past few months),
and I've more recently removed from the set some discs where all the files
within had been superseded by newer versions on later discs. I've not yet
had readability issues with them.
I'll allow that it's only been six years so far, but I've not had issues
with the handful of older CD-Rs and DVD-Rs that I have either.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381485 is a reply to message #381478] |
Wed, 27 February 2019 23:21 |
sicklittlemonkey
Messages: 570 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thursday, 28 February 2019 03:31:00 UTC+13, joltenjoe wrote:
> Dunno about that. My last 2 macs were in use for almost 10 years each until the operating system couldn’t be updated and one still works but runsb hot due to bad GPU design.
My record is a Mac Mini from 2006 that my wife still uses as a HTPC. I upgraded both the CPU and RAM - support for which was blocked by Apple, but luckily there was a tutorial on the web that showed how to boot to a command line and force a firmware upgrade.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Re: "Man discovers 30 year old Apple computer still in working order" [message #381499 is a reply to message #381483] |
Fri, 01 March 2019 01:36 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
> In article <dog_cow-1551291140@macgui.com>,
> D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
>> And those people were right to worry, because I have a handful of CD-R and
>> DVD-R discs burned in the mid-2000s where the coating is flaking off in
>> spots. And with it goes my data. I threw out a couple of these discs within
>> the past 3 years, and came across a few more several weeks ago.
>
> CDs are susceptible to damage because the data layer is right underneath one
> side of the disc, making it relatively easy to scratch. If it starts
> flaking, say bye-bye to your data (which you've apparently had happen). The
> data layer in DVDs (and Blu-ray discs, while we're at it) is buried near the
> middle of the disc, surrounded on both sides by polycarbonate. The label
> flaking off a DVD shouldn't affect readability. Dye stability and the seal
> around the perimeter of the disc would affect it; unstable dye and/or a bad
> seal would tend to lead to discs going bad.
>
> I've been archiving files on my home media server to BD-R for over six
> years, 20 GB per disc (the remaining 5 GB is used for parity data to recover
> from whatever degradation might occur). I have over 400 of them, spread
> across three binders that I keep in my office at work, next to a second
> server that gets synhcronized daily. BD-R, at least in its HTL form, uses
> an inorganic phase-change alloy instead of organic dye for its recording
> layer; this should be more stable. I've already had to do one restore from
> my media set (the second server's only been running the past few months),
> and I've more recently removed from the set some discs where all the files
> within had been superseded by newer versions on later discs. I've not yet
> had readability issues with them.
>
> I'll allow that it's only been six years so far, but I've not had issues
> with the handful of older CD-Rs and DVD-Rs that I have either.
>
> _/_
> / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
> (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
> \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
>
>
Starting a decade or so ago, I’ve done all my backups to hard disks. Four
or five TB per drive holds every file I have collected, including over
100,000 photos and other media.
Every year or two, I add a new drive to the rotation. This keeps the drives
“fresh” and with plenty of capacity for full backups. Now all four are
USB3, so transfer rates are quite good.
The cost is very reasonable, the backup is a copy of my file system
organization, and they could all fit in a shoebox (of course, I don’t keep
them in the same place).
Finally, I expect USB-connected hard drives to be a long-lived capability
of personal computers compared to any particular media type.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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