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Stuff Missing from my System 7 on LC II [message #379169] Sat, 29 December 2018 23:41 Go to next message
Marcus Smith is currently offline  Marcus Smith
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2018
Karma: 0
Junior Member
I got a Macintosh LC II that came with System 7.0.1. I Found a copy of
System 7.5 online that came in the form of 7 floppy images that I had to
jump through some hoops to make into actual floppies. I installed 7.5, and
everything works fine. However, to my mind it is missing a number of
things, such as extension manager (and some other minor things I can't
recall right now). Is it possible the installer didn't install everything
based on my hard disk size or something (40 MB)? Any ideas?

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Re: Stuff Missing from my System 7 on LC II [message #379170 is a reply to message #379169] Sun, 30 December 2018 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Mccorkle is currently offline  Paul Mccorkle
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2018
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Junior Member
try reinstall? Never heard of this before.

http://igsi.tripod.com/mac/index753.htm

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 1:14 AM Marcus Smith <audiomatron@gmail.com> wrote:

> I got a Macintosh LC II that came with System 7.0.1. I Found a copy of
> System 7.5 online that came in the form of 7 floppy images that I had to
> jump through some hoops to make into actual floppies. I installed 7.5, and
> everything works fine. However, to my mind it is missing a number of
> things, such as extension manager (and some other minor things I can't
> recall right now). Is it possible the installer didn't install everything
> based on my hard disk size or something (40 MB)? Any ideas?
>
> --
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> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
> group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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Re: Stuff Missing from my System 7 on LC II [message #379177 is a reply to message #379170] Sun, 30 December 2018 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vintage-macs is currently offline  vintage-macs
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Registered: April 2014
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Senior Member
I'm with Paul. I've only ever seen 7.5.3 as a large archive of multiple images. Each image can be transferred on a single floppy but you need to have them all to extract the installation information. That should extract to a single file of about 20MB. A 40MB HDD is probably too small especially if you have an OS on the disk as well as applications etc.
According to MacTracker, 7.5 requires a minimum of 4MB RAM and 21MB of hard drive space. Your LC II has a minimum of 2MB RAM and can have a maximum of 10MB RAM.
I think your 40MB drive isn't big enough for the installation.
Even if you have 22MB of free space, the Mac has to move things into position before the new OS can go live. It also requires somewhere to store that 21MB installation file while it transfers files and components for the OS update.
Maybe consider this.
Clone your 40MB drive to a ZIP disk if possible. Copy the full 7.5 installation to the Zip disk. Boot the LC II using the ZIP as the start up disk. Install the 7.5 on the Zip disk and this should preserve your applications and files through the upgrade.
When you are happy, Clone your ZIP back to the 40MB drive and it should be the full 7.5.
Just a thought.
Hope you get it sorted,
Keith 
On Sunday, 30 December 2018, 12:20:07 GMT, Paul Mccorkle <driven152@gmail.com> wrote:

try reinstall?  Never heard of this before.
http://igsi.tripod.com/mac/index753.htm

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 1:14 AM Marcus Smith <audiomatron@gmail.com> wrote:

I got a Macintosh LC II that came with System 7.0.1. I Found a copy of System 7.5 online that came in the form of 7 floppy images that I had to jump through some hoops to make into actual floppies. I installed 7.5, and everything works fine. However, to my mind it is missing a number of things, such as extension manager (and some other minor things I can't recall right now). Is it possible the installer didn't install everything based on my hard disk size or something (40 MB)? Any ideas?


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Re: Stuff Missing from my System 7 on LC II [message #379178 is a reply to message #379177] Sun, 30 December 2018 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Mccorkle is currently offline  Paul Mccorkle
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2018
Karma: 0
Junior Member
You could boot from an external scsi2sd, that would work.

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 3:58 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <
vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I'm with Paul. I've only ever seen 7.5.3 as a large archive of multiple
> images. Each image can be transferred on a single floppy but you need to
> have them all to extract the installation information. That should extract
> to a single file of about 20MB. A 40MB HDD is probably too small especially
> if you have an OS on the disk as well as applications etc.
>
> According to MacTracker, 7.5 requires a minimum of 4MB RAM and 21MB of
> hard drive space. Your LC II has a minimum of 2MB RAM and can have a
> maximum of 10MB RAM.
>
> I think your 40MB drive isn't big enough for the installation.
>
> Even if you have 22MB of free space, the Mac has to move things into
> position before the new OS can go live. It also requires somewhere to store
> that 21MB installation file while it transfers files and components for the
> OS update.
>
> Maybe consider this.
>
> Clone your 40MB drive to a ZIP disk if possible. Copy the full 7.5
> installation to the Zip disk. Boot the LC II using the ZIP as the start up
> disk. Install the 7.5 on the Zip disk and this should preserve your
> applications and files through the upgrade.
>
> When you are happy, Clone your ZIP back to the 40MB drive and it should be
> the full 7.5.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Hope you get it sorted,
>
> Keith
>
> On Sunday, 30 December 2018, 12:20:07 GMT, Paul Mccorkle <
> driven152@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> try reinstall? Never heard of this before.
>
> http://igsi.tripod.com/mac/index753.htm
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 1:14 AM Marcus Smith <audiomatron@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I got a Macintosh LC II that came with System 7.0.1. I Found a copy of
> System 7.5 online that came in the form of 7 floppy images that I had to
> jump through some hoops to make into actual floppies. I installed 7.5, and
> everything works fine. However, to my mind it is missing a number of
> things, such as extension manager (and some other minor things I can't
> recall right now). Is it possible the installer didn't install everything
> based on my hard disk size or something (40 MB)? Any ideas?
>
> --
> --
> -----
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
> group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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> http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs
>
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Re: Stuff Missing from my System 7 on LC II [message #379184 is a reply to message #379178] Mon, 31 December 2018 01:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marcus Smith is currently offline  Marcus Smith
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2018
Karma: 0
Junior Member
So.. Mine has 10 MB of RAM, 40 MB HDD. Last night, I made floppies of the
7.5.3 update (14 of them) using my beige G3. I installed them on the LCII.
I had to delete some stuff because the installer wanted 15MB of free space
to proceed. The installation went fine, but I have the same issue - no
extension manager, appearance, control strip, etc.. Either something is
messed up from the original installation that has carried through, or..
something.. Anyway...

The sad news is that all of those floppy ejections killed my floppy drive's
ability to eject (now just makes a weird noise). I have another floppy
drive on the way as well as a 160MB HDD. I'll just re-do the entire thing
from scratch.

I also have a SCSI CD ROM for the LC II - still waiting for a SCSI cable
for that. I also have a burner for my G3 coming so I can make CDs for the
LC II. Can the LC II boot from an external CD ROM?

Anyway.. I'm starting to spend waaay to much money on these old computers.
Why? Because I think it's fun! Whee!

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 7:12 PM Paul Mccorkle <driven152@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> You could boot from an external scsi2sd, that would work.
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 3:58 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <
> vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm with Paul. I've only ever seen 7.5.3 as a large archive of multiple
>> images. Each image can be transferred on a single floppy but you need to
>> have them all to extract the installation information. That should extract
>> to a single file of about 20MB. A 40MB HDD is probably too small especially
>> if you have an OS on the disk as well as applications etc.
>>
>> According to MacTracker, 7.5 requires a minimum of 4MB RAM and 21MB of
>> hard drive space. Your LC II has a minimum of 2MB RAM and can have a
>> maximum of 10MB RAM.
>>
>> I think your 40MB drive isn't big enough for the installation.
>>
>> Even if you have 22MB of free space, the Mac has to move things into
>> position before the new OS can go live. It also requires somewhere to store
>> that 21MB installation file while it transfers files and components for the
>> OS update.
>>
>> Maybe consider this.
>>
>> Clone your 40MB drive to a ZIP disk if possible. Copy the full 7.5
>> installation to the Zip disk. Boot the LC II using the ZIP as the start up
>> disk. Install the 7.5 on the Zip disk and this should preserve your
>> applications and files through the upgrade.
>>
>> When you are happy, Clone your ZIP back to the 40MB drive and it should
>> be the full 7.5.
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> Hope you get it sorted,
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On Sunday, 30 December 2018, 12:20:07 GMT, Paul Mccorkle <
>> driven152@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> try reinstall? Never heard of this before.
>>
>> http://igsi.tripod.com/mac/index753.htm
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 1:14 AM Marcus Smith <audiomatron@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I got a Macintosh LC II that came with System 7.0.1. I Found a copy of
>> System 7.5 online that came in the form of 7 floppy images that I had to
>> jump through some hoops to make into actual floppies. I installed 7.5, and
>> everything works fine. However, to my mind it is missing a number of
>> things, such as extension manager (and some other minor things I can't
>> recall right now). Is it possible the installer didn't install everything
>> based on my hard disk size or something (40 MB)? Any ideas?
>>
>> --
>> --
>> -----
>> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
>> group.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
>> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>> To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com
>> To leave this group, send email to
>> vintage-macs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs
>>
>> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Vintage Macs" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to vintage-macs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>> --
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>> group.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
>> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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Re: Stuff Missing from my System 7 on LC II [message #379242 is a reply to message #379184] Tue, 01 January 2019 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vintage-macs is currently offline  vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"Why? Because I think it's fun! Whee!"
That's the spirit, Marcus!
Your LC II should boot from the external SCSI CD drive. Make sure that the SCSI ID is set to anything other than 0 or 7. Typically 3 is a good choice.

Apple Boot Key Combos:




** Bypass startup drive and boot from external (or CD).... CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE **

or

** Boot from CD (Most late model Apples) ................. C **

or

** Boot from a specific SCSI ID #.(#=SCSI ID number)...... CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE-# **




Zap PRAM .............................................. CMD-OPT-P-R




Disable Extensions .................................... SHIFT




Rebuild Desktop ....................................... CMD-OPT




Close finder windows.(hold just before finder starts).. OPT




Boot with Virtual Memory off........................... CMD




Trigger extension manager at boot-up................... SPACE




Force Quadra av machines to use TV as a monitor........ CMD-OPT-T-V




Boot from ROM (Mac Classic only)....................... CMD-OPT-X-O




Force PowerBooks to reset the screen................... R




Force an AV monitor to be recognized as one............ CMD-OPT-A-V



Eject Boot Floppy...................................... Hold Down Mouse Button
(copied from Trying to get an old LCII to boot up. - Apple Community)

|
|
| |
Trying to get an old LCII to boot up. - Apple Community


|

|

|


Hope this helps,
Keith 
On Monday, 31 December 2018, 06:48:25 GMT, Marcus Smith <audiomatron@gmail.com> wrote:

So.. Mine has 10 MB of RAM, 40 MB HDD. Last night, I made floppies of the 7.5.3 update (14 of them) using my beige G3. I installed them on the LCII. I had to delete some stuff because the installer wanted 15MB of free space to proceed. The installation went fine, but I have the same issue - no extension manager, appearance, control strip, etc.. Either something is messed up from the original installation that has carried through, or.. something.. Anyway...
The sad news is that all of those floppy ejections killed my floppy drive's ability to eject (now just makes a weird noise). I have another floppy drive on the way as well as a 160MB HDD. I'll just re-do the entire thing from scratch.
I also have a SCSI CD ROM for the LC II - still waiting for a SCSI cable for that. I also have a burner for my G3 coming so I can make CDs for the LC II. Can the LC II boot from an external CD ROM?
Anyway.. I'm starting to spend waaay to much money on these old computers. Why? Because I think it's fun! Whee!

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 7:12 PM Paul Mccorkle <driven152@gmail.com> wrote:


You could boot from an external scsi2sd, that would work.
On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 3:58 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I'm with Paul. I've only ever seen 7.5.3 as a large archive of multiple images. Each image can be transferred on a single floppy but you need to have them all to extract the installation information. That should extract to a single file of about 20MB. A 40MB HDD is probably too small especially if you have an OS on the disk as well as applications etc.
According to MacTracker, 7.5 requires a minimum of 4MB RAM and 21MB of hard drive space. Your LC II has a minimum of 2MB RAM and can have a maximum of 10MB RAM.
I think your 40MB drive isn't big enough for the installation.
Even if you have 22MB of free space, the Mac has to move things into position before the new OS can go live. It also requires somewhere to store that 21MB installation file while it transfers files and components for the OS update.
Maybe consider this.
Clone your 40MB drive to a ZIP disk if possible. Copy the full 7.5 installation to the Zip disk. Boot the LC II using the ZIP as the start up disk. Install the 7.5 on the Zip disk and this should preserve your applications and files through the upgrade.
When you are happy, Clone your ZIP back to the 40MB drive and it should be the full 7.5.
Just a thought.
Hope you get it sorted,
Keith 
On Sunday, 30 December 2018, 12:20:07 GMT, Paul Mccorkle <driven152@gmail.com> wrote:

try reinstall?  Never heard of this before.
http://igsi.tripod.com/mac/index753.htm

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 1:14 AM Marcus Smith <audiomatron@gmail.com> wrote:

I got a Macintosh LC II that came with System 7.0.1. I Found a copy of System 7.5 online that came in the form of 7 floppy images that I had to jump through some hoops to make into actual floppies. I installed 7.5, and everything works fine. However, to my mind it is missing a number of things, such as extension manager (and some other minor things I can't recall right now). Is it possible the installer didn't install everything based on my hard disk size or something (40 MB)? Any ideas?


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Re: Stuff Missing from my System 7 on LC II [message #379312 is a reply to message #379169] Thu, 03 January 2019 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marcus Smith is currently offline  Marcus Smith
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2018
Karma: 0
Junior Member
So... I got my SCSI cable. Even though the CD ROM doesn't work when the
system is running (probably because I haven't installed the driver, you
know, since my floppy drive is busted), I was able to use it to boot to a
7.5.3 full install CD I found on Macintosh Repository. I wiped the HDD, and
installed the system from scratch. Now, everything looks right, and I have
the control panels I expect to have (except control strip...). There is
still 16 of the 40 MB left!

Before reinstall, it didn't have colorful folder icons, the trash can was
in black and white, it was missing a number of control panels. Something
was definitely wrong.. Now it's all good. Yay! Thanks for the pointers guys!

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 1:14:15 AM UTC-6, Marcus Smith wrote:
>
> I got a Macintosh LC II that came with System 7.0.1. I Found a copy of
> System 7.5 online that came in the form of 7 floppy images that I had to
> jump through some hoops to make into actual floppies. I installed 7.5, and
> everything works fine. However, to my mind it is missing a number of
> things, such as extension manager (and some other minor things I can't
> recall right now). Is it possible the installer didn't install everything
> based on my hard disk size or something (40 MB)? Any ideas?
>

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Re: Stuff Missing from my System 7 on LC II [message #379521 is a reply to message #379242] Tue, 08 January 2019 19:39 Go to previous message
Jerri Kohl is currently offline  Jerri Kohl
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2018
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Thanks for the handy keyboard boot key combos! Never knew there were so
many! Glad you're all set to have good Marcus!

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 12:59 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <
vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> "Why? Because I think it's fun! Whee!"
>
> That's the spirit, Marcus!
>
> Your LC II should boot from the external SCSI CD drive. Make sure that the
> SCSI ID is set to anything other than 0 or 7. Typically 3 is a good choice.
>
> Apple Boot Key Combos:
>
>
> ** Bypass startup drive and boot from external (or CD)....
> CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE **
>
> or
>
> ** Boot from CD (Most late model Apples) ................. C **
>
> or
>
> ** Boot from a specific SCSI ID #.(#=SCSI ID number)......
> CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE-# **
>
>
> Zap PRAM .............................................. CMD-OPT-P-R
>
>
> Disable Extensions .................................... SHIFT
>
>
> Rebuild Desktop ....................................... CMD-OPT
>
>
> Close finder windows.(hold just before finder starts).. OPT
>
>
> Boot with Virtual Memory off........................... CMD
>
>
> Trigger extension manager at boot-up................... SPACE
>
>
> Force Quadra av machines to use TV as a monitor........ CMD-OPT-T-V
>
>
> Boot from ROM (Mac Classic only)....................... CMD-OPT-X-O
>
>
> Force PowerBooks to reset the screen................... R
>
>
> Force an AV monitor to be recognized as one............ CMD-OPT-A-V
>
>
> Eject Boot Floppy...................................... Hold Down Mouse
> Button
>
> (copied from Trying to get an old LCII to boot up. - Apple Community
> <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6259522>)
>
> Trying to get an old LCII to boot up. - Apple Community
>
> <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6259522>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Keith
>
> On Monday, 31 December 2018, 06:48:25 GMT, Marcus Smith <
> audiomatron@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> So.. Mine has 10 MB of RAM, 40 MB HDD. Last night, I made floppies of the
> 7.5.3 update (14 of them) using my beige G3. I installed them on the LCII.
> I had to delete some stuff because the installer wanted 15MB of free space
> to proceed. The installation went fine, but I have the same issue - no
> extension manager, appearance, control strip, etc.. Either something is
> messed up from the original installation that has carried through, or..
> something.. Anyway...
>
> The sad news is that all of those floppy ejections killed my floppy
> drive's ability to eject (now just makes a weird noise). I have another
> floppy drive on the way as well as a 160MB HDD. I'll just re-do the entire
> thing from scratch.
>
> I also have a SCSI CD ROM for the LC II - still waiting for a SCSI cable
> for that. I also have a burner for my G3 coming so I can make CDs for the
> LC II. Can the LC II boot from an external CD ROM?
>
> Anyway.. I'm starting to spend waaay to much money on these old computers.
> Why? Because I think it's fun! Whee!
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 7:12 PM Paul Mccorkle <driven152@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> You could boot from an external scsi2sd, that would work.
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 3:58 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <
> vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> I'm with Paul. I've only ever seen 7.5.3 as a large archive of multiple
> images. Each image can be transferred on a single floppy but you need to
> have them all to extract the installation information. That should extract
> to a single file of about 20MB. A 40MB HDD is probably too small especially
> if you have an OS on the disk as well as applications etc.
>
> According to MacTracker, 7.5 requires a minimum of 4MB RAM and 21MB of
> hard drive space. Your LC II has a minimum of 2MB RAM and can have a
> maximum of 10MB RAM.
>
> I think your 40MB drive isn't big enough for the installation.
>
> Even if you have 22MB of free space, the Mac has to move things into
> position before the new OS can go live. It also requires somewhere to store
> that 21MB installation file while it transfers files and components for the
> OS update.
>
> Maybe consider this.
>
> Clone your 40MB drive to a ZIP disk if possible. Copy the full 7.5
> installation to the Zip disk. Boot the LC II using the ZIP as the start up
> disk. Install the 7.5 on the Zip disk and this should preserve your
> applications and files through the upgrade.
>
> When you are happy, Clone your ZIP back to the 40MB drive and it should be
> the full 7.5.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Hope you get it sorted,
>
> Keith
>
> On Sunday, 30 December 2018, 12:20:07 GMT, Paul Mccorkle <
> driven152@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> try reinstall? Never heard of this before.
>
> http://igsi.tripod.com/mac/index753.htm
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 1:14 AM Marcus Smith <audiomatron@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I got a Macintosh LC II that came with System 7.0.1. I Found a copy of
> System 7.5 online that came in the form of 7 floppy images that I had to
> jump through some hoops to make into actual floppies. I installed 7.5, and
> everything works fine. However, to my mind it is missing a number of
> things, such as extension manager (and some other minor things I can't
> recall right now). Is it possible the installer didn't install everything
> based on my hard disk size or something (40 MB)? Any ideas?
>
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