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68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378675] Thu, 20 December 2018 08:34 Go to next message
Christian Wacker is currently offline  Christian Wacker
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Registered: April 2018
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Has anyone successfully run a modern 68Pin SCSI drive in a vintage Mac?
I've got about 50 from old servers at work, varying in size from 3GB up to
72GB and most still work. My Mac Classic internal drive is certainly on its
way out and upgrading on the cheap is my plan. I can get a 68Pin to 50 pin
converter for as little as $3 but I don't want to throw money away on
something I can't use.
Thanks!

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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378681 is a reply to message #378675] Thu, 20 December 2018 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Zeun is currently offline  James Zeun
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I discovered with my PM8500, that only certain models of 68pin will work.
From what I gather it has to do with the SCSI mode. Early drives like 3-8
GB are backwards compatible. But later drives don't come with the correct
firm for the old mac to recognize the drive.

I have a nice 73gb ultra SCSI drive which my Mac won't read. I've had to
but a SCSI card for it.

On 13:34, Thu, 20 Dec 2018 Christian Wacker <pizzaboy192@gmail.com wrote:

> Has anyone successfully run a modern 68Pin SCSI drive in a vintage Mac?
> I've got about 50 from old servers at work, varying in size from 3GB up to
> 72GB and most still work. My Mac Classic internal drive is certainly on its
> way out and upgrading on the cheap is my plan. I can get a 68Pin to 50 pin
> converter for as little as $3 but I don't want to throw money away on
> something I can't use.
> Thanks!
>
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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378682 is a reply to message #378681] Thu, 20 December 2018 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
William Stillwell is currently offline  William Stillwell
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if the drive has a narrow mode, it will work.

William Stillwell

Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization

Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida
Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization




On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:18 AM James Zeun <james.zeun@gmail.com> wrote:

> I discovered with my PM8500, that only certain models of 68pin will work.
> From what I gather it has to do with the SCSI mode. Early drives like 3-8
> GB are backwards compatible. But later drives don't come with the correct
> firm for the old mac to recognize the drive.
>
> I have a nice 73gb ultra SCSI drive which my Mac won't read. I've had to
> but a SCSI card for it.
>
> On 13:34, Thu, 20 Dec 2018 Christian Wacker <pizzaboy192@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Has anyone successfully run a modern 68Pin SCSI drive in a vintage Mac?
>> I've got about 50 from old servers at work, varying in size from 3GB up to
>> 72GB and most still work. My Mac Classic internal drive is certainly on its
>> way out and upgrading on the cheap is my plan. I can get a 68Pin to 50 pin
>> converter for as little as $3 but I don't want to throw money away on
>> something I can't use.
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
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>> group.
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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378687 is a reply to message #378682] Thu, 20 December 2018 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The One True Stickman is currently offline  The One True Stickman
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I used a couple 80-pin 9.1 GB SCA server drives in my power macs with
adapters for years without major issues. Worth a shot if you have a pile of
free drives!

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:45 AM William Stillwell <ki4swy@gmail.com> wrote:

> if the drive has a narrow mode, it will work.
>
> William Stillwell
>
> Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
>
> Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida
> Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:18 AM James Zeun <james.zeun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I discovered with my PM8500, that only certain models of 68pin will work.
>> From what I gather it has to do with the SCSI mode. Early drives like 3-8
>> GB are backwards compatible. But later drives don't come with the correct
>> firm for the old mac to recognize the drive.
>>
>> I have a nice 73gb ultra SCSI drive which my Mac won't read. I've had to
>> but a SCSI card for it.
>>
>> On 13:34, Thu, 20 Dec 2018 Christian Wacker <pizzaboy192@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone successfully run a modern 68Pin SCSI drive in a vintage Mac?
>>> I've got about 50 from old servers at work, varying in size from 3GB up to
>>> 72GB and most still work. My Mac Classic internal drive is certainly on its
>>> way out and upgrading on the cheap is my plan. I can get a 68Pin to 50 pin
>>> converter for as little as $3 but I don't want to throw money away on
>>> something I can't use.
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> -----
>>> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
>>> group.
>>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
>>> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>>> To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com
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>>> vintage-macs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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>>> http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs
>>>
>>> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
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>>> Groups "Vintage Macs" group.
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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378805 is a reply to message #378675] Fri, 21 December 2018 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Walther is currently offline  Jeff Walther
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Registered: August 2012
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On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:34:44 AM UTC-6, Pizzaboy192 wrote:
>
> Has anyone successfully run a modern 68Pin SCSI drive in a vintage Mac?
> I've got about 50 from old servers at work, varying in size from 3GB up to
> 72GB and most still work.
>

Yes, many people have done this, including adapting the 80 pin SCA drives,
which are wide just like a 68 pin drive, but use a connector meant for
server applications and convenient for hot-plugging.

However....

In order to do it right, you must get an adapter which includes a provision
to terminate the upper data byte. If you do not, then the upper data byte
on the drive connector will not be terminated and while this often does not
cause problems, it is not correct SCSI configuration.

SCSI voodoo does not happen because SCSI does not work when it should.
SCSI voodoo happens because often SCSI still works, when it should not.

Anyway, the $3 adapters don't have any provision on them for termination.
The adapters with termination are typically closer to $20. This doesn't
make much sense, because its just the addition of some resistor packs. If
they can sell the cheaper adapters for $3, then terminated adapters
shouldn't cost more than $10.

We had a long discussion about this over on 68kmla.org some years ago.
Some stuff became inaccessible after the latest forum update, and that
discussion might be old enough to have been vulnerable, so I can't
guarantee it's still accessible.

Jeff Walther


Jeff Walther

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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378806 is a reply to message #378805] Fri, 21 December 2018 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jonathan Morton is currently offline  Jonathan Morton
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> On 21 Dec, 2018, at 9:27 pm, Jeff Walther <trag@prismnet.com> wrote:
>
> In order to do it right, you must get an adapter which includes a provision to terminate the upper data byte. If you do not, then the upper data byte on the drive connector will not be terminated and while this often does not cause problems, it is not correct SCSI configuration.

Another small wrinkle is that "wide" SCSI supports IDs 0-15, while "narrow" SCSI only has 0-7 (of which 7 is normally reserved for the controller). You'll need to make sure a "wide" drive is set to a low ID that the Mac can physically access.

- Jonathan Morton

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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378807 is a reply to message #378805] Fri, 21 December 2018 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Walther is currently offline  Jeff Walther
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Just realized, what I was writing was actually mostly applicable to the SCA
80 pin drives.

On a 68 pin drive, there is usually a provision for on-board termination on
the hard drive itself, unless it is a fairly modern U2W or newer SCSI drive.

Anyway, if there is on-board termination on the drive, just put the drive
on a cheap adapter, make sure it's at one end of the SCSI chain, and enable
the on-board termination on teh drive and you should be good.

You only need a drive with distinct upper byte termination if you're going
to try to put the drive in the middle of the SCSI chain.

My apologies for any confusion. It's been years since folks have
regularly needed SCSI advice, so I'm a little rusty.

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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378808 is a reply to message #378807] Fri, 21 December 2018 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Zeun is currently offline  James Zeun
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As this kind of happened to me a few years ago. I wouldn't mind asking a
question myself.

I bought one of the cheap 40 to 80 SCSI adapters, so I could use a 73gb
(think that was the size, I know it's 70+GB).

When I hooked it up my 8500, it didn't see it. I posted about it on 68kmla
and the reply I got back. Was that some newer drives are not visible to the
Mac, because they are based on a newer mode of SCSI, which the 8500 doesn't
recognize. Was that a load of old cobblers? :-/



On Fri, 21 Dec 2018, 7:30 p.m. Jeff Walther, <trag@prismnet.com> wrote:

> Just realized, what I was writing was actually mostly applicable to the
> SCA 80 pin drives.
>
> On a 68 pin drive, there is usually a provision for on-board termination
> on the hard drive itself, unless it is a fairly modern U2W or newer SCSI
> drive.
>
> Anyway, if there is on-board termination on the drive, just put the drive
> on a cheap adapter, make sure it's at one end of the SCSI chain, and enable
> the on-board termination on teh drive and you should be good.
>
> You only need a drive with distinct upper byte termination if you're going
> to try to put the drive in the middle of the SCSI chain.
>
> My apologies for any confusion. It's been years since folks have
> regularly needed SCSI advice, so I'm a little rusty.
>
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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378809 is a reply to message #378808] Fri, 21 December 2018 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dylan McDermond is currently offline  Dylan McDermond
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> On Dec 21, 2018, at 12:43 PM, James Zeun <james.zeun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> When I hooked it up my 8500, it didn't see it.

Don’t forget that you need a formatting tool that recognizes drives not made by Apple.

- Dylan

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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #378810 is a reply to message #378808] Fri, 21 December 2018 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jonathan Morton is currently offline  Jonathan Morton
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> On 21 Dec, 2018, at 10:43 pm, James Zeun <james.zeun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> …a newer mode of SCSI, which the 8500 doesn't recognize. Was that a load of old cobblers? :-/

As far as I'm aware, all parallel-SCSI implementations are expected to support plain old Asynchronous Narrow mode, which is what most Macs use. Support for faster modes is optional and negotiated over the bus in Asynchronous Narrow mode.

As noted, most drives are not Apple "blessed" and will require a third-party formatter, such as Silverlining. I think you can get that from Macintosh Garden.

Some of the oldest Macs can't access beyond the first gigabyte from their ROMs. The workaround is to make a 1GB System partition at the start of the drive, and one or more separate data partitions using the remaining space.

- Jonathan Morton

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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #379012 is a reply to message #378810] Mon, 24 December 2018 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Lenington[1] is currently offline  Charles Lenington[1]
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>
> As noted, most drives are not Apple "blessed" and will require a third-party formatter, such as Silverlining. I think you can get that from Macintosh Garden.
>

I Think I used FWB'S HARD DISK TOOL KIT.


Charles L

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Re: 68Pin SCSI drives in a 68K Mac? [message #379111 is a reply to message #378675] Thu, 27 December 2018 15:07 Go to previous message
Paul Mccorkle is currently offline  Paul Mccorkle
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2018
Karma: 0
Junior Member


On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 7:34:44 AM UTC-6, Pizzaboy192 wrote:
>
> Has anyone successfully run a modern 68Pin SCSI drive in a vintage Mac?
> I've got about 50 from old servers at work, varying in size from 3GB up to
> 72GB and most still work. My Mac Classic internal drive is certainly on its
> way out and upgrading on the cheap is my plan. I can get a 68Pin to 50 pin
> converter for as little as $3 but I don't want to throw money away on
> something I can't use.
> Thanks!
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n8CdJq4Bd8

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