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Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378549 is a reply to message #376693] Tue, 18 December 2018 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:05:41 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:22:01 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 9:10:33 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, god forbid that you should take an extra 30 seconds to
>>> consider what you discard (or think about it before purchasing).
>>
>> Today at lunch in the cafeteria I timed it. My friend required
>> all of 2 seconds to discard his soda can in the recycling bin
>> while discarding his other trash in the main bin.
>>
>> I don't think 2 seconds is much to ask.
>
> The food court of a mall here was refurbished. When they opened again it
> seems they put a policy into place to use plastic plates and cups instead
> of made from cardboard. Suppose the policy of MacDonald's doesn't comply
> with that so they are no longer part of the food court.

They are idiots if they have that policy. McDonalds at one point was
using plastic for everything, with the intent that they, McDonalds,
would recycle it all. The government told them that they couldn't
recycle it because it was "contaminated with food" (note, this was to
be in McDonalds' own facilities where presumably they had worked out
the issued with removing contaminants during recycling) so they said
"screw it" and went back to paper.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378552 is a reply to message #378545] Tue, 18 December 2018 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 3:30:54 PM UTC-5, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> Yes, they do high quality if contracted. But say you buy them at Home
> Depot and you have American and Chinese made side by side with the
> Chinese slightly cheaper they're likely worse than the American light
> bulbs.
>
> Well I bought a pack with two Chinese light bulbs, each burning out
> within a year. Bought American made next time and the one I put in
> already lasts more than 18 months. Could be a coincidence though...

Given my experience, I suspect manufacturers have different lines
for sale in different stores. The big box stores demand big
discounts from vendors, and some vendors cut back on quality to
comply, or lose a big customer. This was documented in the case
of Walmart. Light bulbs I bought at a big box store were crap.

Anyway, this makes it a bitch for consumers since we generally have
no idea what we're getting. Brand names don't mean much these days.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378553 is a reply to message #378514] Tue, 18 December 2018 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 7:00:02 AM UTC-5, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> One of the benefits they get from the battery is not needing the
> expensive fast response gas turbine generators, with the battery they can
> wait while the slower responding resources ramp up, the load goes away or
> the wind/sun picks up without burning gas. The other main benefit they
> derive from it is buying up energy when it is cheap and using it when
> they'd have to pay more for it.
>
> Analysed in detail in the links elesthread - general conclusion
> battery vs gas turbine - battery wins hands down.

My big concern is power reliability, not so much saving money
for the power company.

A battery will run out. A generator lasts for its fuel load, and
that's generally significantly longer than a battery can supply.

Heck, for years the phone company used big batteries, but had
diesel generators for backup. I'm guessing a diesel generator
is a lot cheaper.

Another area we need a lot more investment is the grid itself.
We need a lot more backup lines. So if a tree hits a line
or a car hits a pole, 50,000 people don't get knocked out for
24 hours.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378554 is a reply to message #378517] Tue, 18 December 2018 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:00:02 AM UTC-5, Peter Flass wrote:

> Besides, most families don't own more than two cars. You need a car that
> supports the worst-case use. If the little woman mostly drives to the
> grocery store or hairdresser but occasionally has to haul several members
> of her son's hockey team plus all their gear, then she needs the bigger
> car. If she had several of varying sizes and means of propulsion, then
> maybe she could choose the most appropriate for the job.

I know a suburban family whose needs are met by owning (1) an SUV
for the big jobs or distant trips, and (2) a compact for everything
else.

But a lot of suburban families these days want big fat SUVS for
all vehicles because of ego. Yes, that is their business, but
they are consuming scarce fuel and dumping out more pollution than
they need to.

As mentioned, ideally, we should be living in higher density housing
and using more transit, but our entirely society is NOT set up for
that except in a few places. Most people want their single house
and lot, and are happy driving all the way to work in an office park.

Personally, growing up in a walkable community served by good
transit was great. But that's NOT what people want.

When Levitt built massive communities of 17,000 homes each, he did
not have any trouble selling them. Indeed, he couldn't build those
little single houses fast enough. In NYC, the Long Island Expressway
has been jammed up ever since.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378555 is a reply to message #378284] Tue, 18 December 2018 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 6:50:01 PM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>
>> On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 2:29:52 PM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>>>> Democracy requires a certain minimum intelligence among the
>>>> populace to enable sensible choices to be made. I fear that the
>>>> median intelligence of the peepul is falling below that level.
>>>
>>> It most certainly has in one political party. Nation wide we are
>>> barely hanging on.
>>
>> Sadly, in the US the extremists, on both sides, are taking over.
>
> Yep, typical lie told by the right.
>
> I remember when Obama was revealed as the extremist he is. Right after
> the inauguration, the righties caught him and Michelle performing a
> "terrorist fist bump".
>
> The left leaning extremist in the last election was Bernie. After all,
> he's a socialist. To call the rest of the party extremists is just a
> lie.
>
> Anyway, try to stay on topic. In this case it's intelligence, not
> extremism.

There are plenty of policy positions advanced by leftists that
aren't very intelligent.

In Phila, for instance, the newly elected 'reform' D.A. has called
for three year sentences for attempted murder by gun. He, in
violation of the law, disregarded the victims' concerns.

In a separate discussion, we noted some of the extreme unrealistic
impractical positions advanced by environmentalists. I believe in
conservation, but I did the crap the locals called for, I'd save
maybe 5% of my energy, if that, yet live a miserable and unhealthy life.
Our country is growing in population, so that alone means more energy
consumption. We are more dependent on power than in the past. So,
they shouldn't block needed power infrastructure improvements as they
constantly try to do.

I am for a realistic approach to immigration. But I don't want
20 people living in a one room apartment next door to me, as
many advocates are pushing (nor do I want a drug rehab halfway
house next door either).

So, whatever you call, extremist or idiocy, it's bad for the people.


>> All we seem to hear these days are rants from the far right and far
>> left. Listen to Fox's Hannity for example, very disturbing (or anyone
>> from talk radio). Likewise from the lefties.
>
> Fox is full of extremists, but the right in the Senate and House are
> singing the same tune.
>
> I suggest you actually listen to Rachel Maddow. She doesn't make crap
> up and spew BS like the Fox crew. She did an amazing piece called
> "Betrayal" on Nixon a while back.

I like Rachel Maddow and the other commentators on MSNBC, as well
as CNN. Some of the extremist positions appear in the op-ed of
the newspapers.




>> People in the middle get screwed.
>>
>> An example is the Boy Scouts. The WSJ just had an article about
>> them--they're losing membership and are in trouble. On the one hand,
>> they've gotten extremely pressure from some of their sponsors to take
>> in gays. On the other hand, some other sponsors object to the gays.
>> They end up losing either way.
>>
>> Ironically, most kids in the scouts are too young to care about such
>> things. The extremists scream about a non-existent issue.
>
> What is that? Some kind of right wing distortion of the Boy Scouts
> story? That's not why they are in trouble:
>
> Facing mounting legal costs from defending itself against lawsuits
> alleging sexual abuse of boys
>
> Ironic isn't it? The whole organization claims to be holier than anyone
> but they can't stop molesting little boys.

Sorry, but you got it wrong.

That trouble in the Boy Scouts happened YEARS AGO. What is a problem
now is that legislatures are removing statute of limitations allowing
ancient claims to be heard in court. So, the BSA will have to defend
itself against a 50 or 60 y/o claim. How the heck can it do that? It
will lose huge amounts of money in settlements.


> I was under the impression the gay issue was resolved a while back. Yep
> Wikipedia:
>
> On May 23, 2013, The Boy Scouts of America's national governing body
> voted to rescind the long-standing ban on homosexual youth in the
> program. Effective January 1, 2014, "No youth may be denied membership
> in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or
> preference alone."

With BSA, some of their church sponsors are now upset they take in
gays. Some of these are major sponsors, like the Mormons.

So, as stated, organizations get caught in the middle between liberals
and conservatives pushing their agendas. The liberals demanded the
scouts take in gays, the conservatives demanded scouts do not.
Nobody wins.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378556 is a reply to message #378552] Tue, 18 December 2018 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5100
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-12-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 3:30:54 PM UTC-5, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> Yes, they do high quality if contracted. But say you buy them at Home
>> Depot and you have American and Chinese made side by side with the
>> Chinese slightly cheaper they're likely worse than the American light
>> bulbs.
>>
>> Well I bought a pack with two Chinese light bulbs, each burning out
>> within a year. Bought American made next time and the one I put in
>> already lasts more than 18 months. Could be a coincidence though...
>
> Given my experience, I suspect manufacturers have different lines
> for sale in different stores. The big box stores demand big
> discounts from vendors, and some vendors cut back on quality to
> comply, or lose a big customer. This was documented in the case
> of Walmart. Light bulbs I bought at a big box store were crap.
>
> Anyway, this makes it a bitch for consumers since we generally have
> no idea what we're getting. Brand names don't mean much these days.

True enough. We recently replaced a shower valve. Those in the know
sent us to a reputable supplier rather than Home Depot. Same brand,
but higher quality (and higher price, but you get what you pay for).

There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot
make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the
people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.
-- John Ruskin (1819-1900)

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378557 is a reply to message #378554] Tue, 18 December 2018 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5100
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-12-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:00:02 AM UTC-5, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Besides, most families don't own more than two cars. You need a car that
>> supports the worst-case use. If the little woman mostly drives to the
>> grocery store or hairdresser but occasionally has to haul several members
>> of her son's hockey team plus all their gear, then she needs the bigger
>> car. If she had several of varying sizes and means of propulsion, then
>> maybe she could choose the most appropriate for the job.
>
> I know a suburban family whose needs are met by owning (1) an SUV
> for the big jobs or distant trips, and (2) a compact for everything
> else.

That's all well and good, if you don't mind insuring two vehicles.
Around here, that works out to an extra $100 to $150 per month.
You're probably better off just buying the SUV (or better still,
a moderate-size sedan with a big trunk) and filling the tank on
the savings you're making by not insuring a second vehicle.

> But a lot of suburban families these days want big fat SUVS for
> all vehicles because of ego. Yes, that is their business, but
> they are consuming scarce fuel and dumping out more pollution than
> they need to.

If people want to feed their egos, they should pay for it.
Besides, it's good for The Economy.

> As mentioned, ideally, we should be living in higher density housing
> and using more transit, but our entirely society is NOT set up for
> that except in a few places. Most people want their single house
> and lot, and are happy driving all the way to work in an office park.

Vancouver is pushing hard for the high-density/transit model,
by encouraging high-rise towers along (and justifying) elevated
train tracks and/or subways.

A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon
you're talking about real money.
-- Everett Dirksen

Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
complex.

I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
"...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378572 is a reply to message #378332] Tue, 18 December 2018 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joy Beeson is currently offline  Joy Beeson
Messages: 156
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 10:42:34 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> If worms happily eat up waste paper then why all the concern about
> "filling up landfills" with it?

Because refuse isn't buried in landfills. It is ensiled.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378575 is a reply to message #378547] Tue, 18 December 2018 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joy Beeson is currently offline  Joy Beeson
Messages: 156
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 15:55:40 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> Ah okay. I understand now. Most (all?) of my ovens did not have a
> window. Then of course you don't need a light bulb. That's what you get
> when you rent a cheap apartment...

The oven of my mother's beloved "old Anderson" didn't have a window in
the door.

It did have a firebrick lining. I still tend to think it takes half
an hour to pre-heat an oven. (Fifteen minutes is plenty for the
thin-tin oven I'm using now.)

It also had a built-in griddle, with a broiler underneath it, and a
"deep well" (fore-runner of the crock pot) under that.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378576 is a reply to message #378575] Wed, 19 December 2018 00:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 23:46:53 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 15:55:40 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> Ah okay. I understand now. Most (all?) of my ovens did not have a
>> window. Then of course you don't need a light bulb. That's what you get
>> when you rent a cheap apartment...
>
> The oven of my mother's beloved "old Anderson" didn't have a window in
> the door.
>
> It did have a firebrick lining. I still tend to think it takes half
> an hour to pre-heat an oven. (Fifteen minutes is plenty for the
> thin-tin oven I'm using now.)

I keep a stone in mine--takes it a half an hour to come up to
temperature but once there it's even.
>
> It also had a built-in griddle, with a broiler underneath it, and a
> "deep well" (fore-runner of the crock pot) under that.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378580 is a reply to message #378495] Wed, 19 December 2018 03:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Spencer is currently offline  Mike Spencer
Messages: 964
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 3:13:03 AM UTC-5, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> But I don't inderstand how "modern policy" has effected that. I see
>> it as simply increased short-term profit. The "internal diseconomy"
>> of maintenance is externalized as a cost to users. Even with wood
>> heat and hand-pumped water, we have to have a gen set to maintain
>> freezers and fridge in prolonged outages. More typical rural
>> households lose heat, water and cooking as well as refrigeration in an
>> outage.
>
> Modern policy separated out generation from distribution.

Ah, so. Tnx. I was unaware of that. I think most power distributed
here is generated here BICBW. The local powerco is working on a deal
to import power from Labrador via (IIRC) indersea cable. Major policy
excursion and I don't think it's going smoothly.


> They also put a lot more focus on the electric rates, which used to
> cover all expenses rolled together. We were lucky in our area; in
> some areas they new policies were so onerous that power supply got
> screwed up.

Huh.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378581 is a reply to message #378557] Wed, 19 December 2018 03:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8054
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-12-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:00:02 AM UTC-5, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> Besides, most families don't own more than two cars. You need a car that
>>> supports the worst-case use. If the little woman mostly drives to the
>>> grocery store or hairdresser but occasionally has to haul several members
>>> of her son's hockey team plus all their gear, then she needs the bigger
>>> car. If she had several of varying sizes and means of propulsion, then
>>> maybe she could choose the most appropriate for the job.
>>
>> I know a suburban family whose needs are met by owning (1) an SUV
>> for the big jobs or distant trips, and (2) a compact for everything
>> else.
>
> That's all well and good, if you don't mind insuring two vehicles.
> Around here, that works out to an extra $100 to $150 per month.
> You're probably better off just buying the SUV (or better still,
> a moderate-size sedan with a big trunk) and filling the tank on
> the savings you're making by not insuring a second vehicle.
>

Most families these days need two,cars, since husband and wife often both
drive to work, usually in different places. Even if one spouse is home they
still need a car to run errands and drive kids. Maybe a big and a small car
will work.

Bigger cars are also usually safer.

--
Pete
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378582 is a reply to message #378547] Wed, 19 December 2018 03:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer

On 18/12/2018 20:55, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> The browning time is known already from experience. You don't even have
> to look at it. Otherwise, open the door and look, although some heat
> might escape.

Q. What is the difference between a microwave oven and homosexuality?

A. You can't brown your meat in a microwave oven.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378583 is a reply to message #378557] Wed, 19 December 2018 04:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-12-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's all well and good, if you don't mind insuring two vehicles.
> Around here, that works out to an extra $100 to $150 per month.
> You're probably better off just buying the SUV (or better still,
> a moderate-size sedan with a big trunk) and filling the tank on
> the savings you're making by not insuring a second vehicle.
>

<rant>
I hate the term 'suv', it brings up images of ponces flying to
Edinborough and being driven to some some Highland Estate in a 'SUV',
where they shoot semi-tame grouse.
</rant>

I had a commercially taxed vehicle and a small-car which my wife
drove. After she died, and her car died of old-age, I kept
the commercially-taxed vehicle, and the next taxing period, I got
a letter from the taxing people, 'How was I doing the shopping?'.
They have a rule that a commercially taxed vehicle can only be used
for buiness, not for shopping.

>> But a lot of suburban families these days want big fat SUVS for
>> all vehicles because of ego. Yes, that is their business, but
>> they are consuming scarce fuel and dumping out more pollution than
>> they need to.
>
> If people want to feed their egos, they should pay for it.
> Besides, it's good for The Economy.

++1

>
>> As mentioned, ideally, we should be living in higher density housing
>> and using more transit, but our entirely society is NOT set up for
>> that except in a few places. Most people want their single house
>> and lot, and are happy driving all the way to work in an office park.
>
> Vancouver is pushing hard for the high-density/transit model,
> by encouraging high-rise towers along (and justifying) elevated
> train tracks and/or subways.
>
> A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon
> you're talking about real money.
> -- Everett Dirksen
>
> Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
> as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
> are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
> 47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
> for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
> complex.
>
> I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
> "...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"
> a


Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.

Aside from the above, do not get young children ( >8) a smartphone
at SpendingTime ( Christmas ). They quickly get addicted.


--
Maus@ireland.com
Opinions offered om any subject:
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378586 is a reply to message #378583] Wed, 19 December 2018 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8054
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
>> as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
>> are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
>> 47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
>> for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
>> complex.
>>
>> I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
>> "...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"
>> a
>
>
> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.

What is the solution for this? This is why people move to the suburbs, for
real or imagined insulation from such things. What would have to be done
to make the cities as safe as the suburbs? Massive sweeps to round up all
the junkies, pushers, whores, and nut-cases, and send them to work farms in
the country? This would never work, or be allowed.

--
Pete
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378587 is a reply to message #378549] Wed, 19 December 2018 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4018
Registered: February 2012
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Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:05:41 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

>> The food court of a mall here was refurbished. When they opened again it
>> seems they put a policy into place to use plastic plates and cups instead
>> of made from cardboard. Suppose the policy of MacDonald's doesn't comply
>> with that so they are no longer part of the food court.
>
> They are idiots if they have that policy. McDonalds at one point was
> using plastic for everything, with the intent that they, McDonalds,
> would recycle it all. The government told them that they couldn't
> recycle it because it was "contaminated with food" (note, this was to
> be in McDonalds' own facilities where presumably they had worked out
> the issued with removing contaminants during recycling) so they said
> "screw it" and went back to paper.

And you, of course, have a citation that supports this statement, correct?
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378588 is a reply to message #378586] Wed, 19 December 2018 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3783
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
>>> as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
>>> are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
>>> 47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
>>> for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
>>> complex.
>>>
>>> I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
>>> "...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"
>>> a
>>
>>
>> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
>> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
>> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
>> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
>> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
>> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>
> What is the solution for this? This is why people move to the suburbs, for
> real or imagined insulation from such things. What would have to be done
> to make the cities as safe as the suburbs? Massive sweeps to round up all
> the junkies, pushers, whores, and nut-cases, and send them to work farms in
> the country? This would never work, or be allowed.

"Round them up"? That's clearly a right wing solution.

How do you think jobs would work? Public works anyone?

Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
Not sure how to fix that.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378593 is a reply to message #378586] Wed, 19 December 2018 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 06:53:17 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
>>> as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
>>> are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
>>> 47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
>>> for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
>>> complex.
>>>
>>> I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
>>> "...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"
>>> a
>>
>>
>> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
>> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
>> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
>> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
>> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
>> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>
> What is the solution for this? This is why people move to the suburbs, for
> real or imagined insulation from such things. What would have to be done
> to make the cities as safe as the suburbs? Massive sweeps to round up all
> the junkies, pushers, whores, and nut-cases, and send them to work farms in
> the country? This would never work, or be allowed.

The fix used to be "red light districts" however the professional
do-gooders managed to petition the government to redistribute the
crime more equitably. Bringing back red-light districts would be a
start.

Note that in the US in the suburbs most parents still keep their kids
indoors or under close supervision--there are plenty of kids in this
neighborhood. Other than one who rides his bicycle up and down the
street all by himself, the only time I see any of them is at the
school bus stop in the morning with several parents in attendance, or
sometimes on weekends being walked by their parents.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378594 is a reply to message #378588] Wed, 19 December 2018 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
>>>> as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
>>>> are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
>>>> 47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
>>>> for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
>>>> complex.
>>>>
>>>> I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
>>>> "...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"
>>>> a
>>>
>>>
>>> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
>>> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
>>> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
>>> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
>>> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
>>> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>>
>> What is the solution for this? This is why people move to the suburbs, for
>> real or imagined insulation from such things. What would have to be done
>> to make the cities as safe as the suburbs? Massive sweeps to round up all
>> the junkies, pushers, whores, and nut-cases, and send them to work farms in
>> the country? This would never work, or be allowed.
>
> "Round them up"? That's clearly a right wing solution.
>
> How do you think jobs would work? Public works anyone?

I'm not sure that jobs will help junkies, pushers, or nut-cases.
Whores are a more difficult issue--some do it because it's the best
paying work they can get, some because they're essentially slaves of a
pimp who has them dependent on him for drugs, some because they like
it. It's going to be hard to convince a $500/hr call girl to work in
a shop for minimum wage.

Eliminating the black market in recreational drugs would be a good
start.

> Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
> alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
> More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
> Not sure how to fix that.

Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378595 is a reply to message #378583] Wed, 19 December 2018 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5100
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-12-19, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:

> <rant>
> I hate the term 'suv', it brings up images of ponces flying to
> Edinborough and being driven to some some Highland Estate in a 'SUV',
> where they shoot semi-tame grouse.
> </rant>

Of course, to be Politicaly Correct, every occurrence of "SUV"
must be preceded by the phrase "gas-guzzling".

> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>
> Aside from the above, do not get young children ( >8) a smartphone
> at SpendingTime ( Christmas ). They quickly get addicted.

But, but, but... addiction is one of the pillars of The Economy.
The purpose of marketing is to bypass people's rational thought
processes, but creating an addiction is much more effective.
It's not just for heroin anymore.

"Gotta be KD"
www.ineedasuzuki.com

OK, looks like it's time to dig out my Grinchified Xmas carols:

THE CHRISTMAS SONG
(with apologies to Nat "King" Cole)

Chestnuts now on sale in aisle five,
Jack Frost replicas below.
Children's Wear has a big red light sale,
With kids dressed up like Eskimos (excuse me, Inuit)

Everybody knows, fake holly, plastic mistletoe
Will keep the profit margins bright.
Tiny tots, LEDs all aglow,
Await an iPhone X [1] tonight.

You know that Santa's on his way.
He's bringing bills that you'll need all next year to pay.
And every mother's child is going to try
To see Buzz Lightyear: can he really fly?

And so I say this economic prayer
To Best Buy and to Wal-Mart too.
Though it's been said many times, many ways,
Merry Spendfest to you.

(Jingle Bells on cash registers)

[1] When I first wrote this, it was "iPhone 5".

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378596 is a reply to message #378593] Wed, 19 December 2018 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8054
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 06:53:17 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
>>>> as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
>>>> are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
>>>> 47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
>>>> for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
>>>> complex.
>>>>
>>>> I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
>>>> "...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"
>>>> a
>>>
>>>
>>> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
>>> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
>>> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
>>> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
>>> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
>>> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>>
>> What is the solution for this? This is why people move to the suburbs, for
>> real or imagined insulation from such things. What would have to be done
>> to make the cities as safe as the suburbs? Massive sweeps to round up all
>> the junkies, pushers, whores, and nut-cases, and send them to work farms in
>> the country? This would never work, or be allowed.
>
> The fix used to be "red light districts" however the professional
> do-gooders managed to petition the government to redistribute the
> crime more equitably. Bringing back red-light districts would be a
> start.
>
> Note that in the US in the suburbs most parents still keep their kids
> indoors or under close supervision--there are plenty of kids in this
> neighborhood. Other than one who rides his bicycle up and down the
> street all by himself, the only time I see any of them is at the
> school bus stop in the morning with several parents in attendance, or
> sometimes on weekends being walked by their parents.
>

Things are sure different than they used to be. I used to leave the house
in the morning, (usually) come home for lunch, go out sgain, and come back
in time for dinner. We usually rode bikes in groups, but I also rode alone
a lot, and think I covered the whole town N-S and E-W. We'd run around the
woods a lot, no parents in sight.

--
Pete
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378597 is a reply to message #378594] Wed, 19 December 2018 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8054
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
>>>> > as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
>>>> > are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
>>>> > 47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
>>>> > for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
>>>> > complex.
>>>> >
>>>> > I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
>>>> > "...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"
>>>> > a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
>>>> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
>>>> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
>>>> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
>>>> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
>>>> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>>>
>>> What is the solution for this? This is why people move to the suburbs, for
>>> real or imagined insulation from such things. What would have to be done
>>> to make the cities as safe as the suburbs? Massive sweeps to round up all
>>> the junkies, pushers, whores, and nut-cases, and send them to work farms in
>>> the country? This would never work, or be allowed.
>>
>> "Round them up"? That's clearly a right wing solution.
>>
>> How do you think jobs would work? Public works anyone?
>
> I'm not sure that jobs will help junkies, pushers, or nut-cases.
> Whores are a more difficult issue--some do it because it's the best
> paying work they can get, some because they're essentially slaves of a
> pimp who has them dependent on him for drugs, some because they like
> it. It's going to be hard to convince a $500/hr call girl to work in
> a shop for minimum wage.
>
> Eliminating the black market in recreational drugs would be a good
> start.
>
>> Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
>> alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
>> More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
>> Not sure how to fix that.
>
> Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.
>

Yes, but when a 12-year-old girl can be kidnapped in front of her house
while waiting for the school bus and killed, who's to argue the fear is
unjustified?

--
Pete
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378598 is a reply to message #378596] Wed, 19 December 2018 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4550
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:58:08 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Things are sure different than they used to be. I used to leave the house
> in the morning, (usually) come home for lunch, go out sgain, and come back
> in time for dinner. We usually rode bikes in groups, but I also rode alone
> a lot, and think I covered the whole town N-S and E-W. We'd run around the
> woods a lot, no parents in sight.

Very similar to my childhood, and if I was inclined to hang around
in the house I would be told to "bugger off out and play".

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378607 is a reply to message #378594] Wed, 19 December 2018 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2018-12-19, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
> Eliminating the black market in recreational drugs would be a good
> start.
>
>> Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
>> alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
>> More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
>> Not sure how to fix that.
>
> Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.

I should have added that the children are becoming obese for lack of
excercise.

--
Maus@ireland.com
Opinions offered om any subject:
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378608 is a reply to message #378607] Wed, 19 December 2018 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 19 Dec 2018 19:46:31 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-12-19, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>> Eliminating the black market in recreational drugs would be a good
>> start.
>>
>>> Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
>>> alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
>>> More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
>>> Not sure how to fix that.
>>
>> Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.
>
> I should have added that the children are becoming obese for lack of
> excercise.

The new addiction is FortNite.

--
Jim
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378609 is a reply to message #378596] Wed, 19 December 2018 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4018
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>>
>> Note that in the US in the suburbs most parents still keep their kids
>> indoors or under close supervision--there are plenty of kids in this
>> neighborhood. Other than one who rides his bicycle up and down the
>> street all by himself, the only time I see any of them is at the
>> school bus stop in the morning with several parents in attendance, or
>> sometimes on weekends being walked by their parents.
>>
>
> Things are sure different than they used to be. I used to leave the house
> in the morning, (usually) come home for lunch, go out sgain, and come back
> in time for dinner. We usually rode bikes in groups, but I also rode alone
> a lot, and think I covered the whole town N-S and E-W. We'd run around the
> woods a lot, no parents in sight.

Clarke's descriptions are hardly universal. I live in the 10th largest
city in the US, and in my neighborhood, kids still do all of those things
you are referring to. Sure, there are other neighborhoods in which such
behavior would be discouraged, but they're a small fraction of the entire
city. The woods (such as they are in this climate) are just a couple
blocks away in the several thousand acre county park (which itself
is adjacent to IBM's Almaden research labs).
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378610 is a reply to message #378597] Wed, 19 December 2018 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4018
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:

>>> Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
>>> alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
>>> More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
>>> Not sure how to fix that.
>>
>> Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.
>>
>
> Yes, but when a 12-year-old girl can be kidnapped in front of her house
> while waiting for the school bus and killed, who's to argue the fear is
> unjustified?

Anyone with an even superficial understanding of statistics?
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378611 is a reply to message #378597] Wed, 19 December 2018 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:58:09 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 2018-12-18, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Someone in this newgroup recently used the term "battery people",
>>>> >> as a comparison to chickens being raised in battery cages. Where
>>>> >> are kids going to play, running up and down the corridor on the
>>>> >> 47th floor? No, wait, their parents are supposed to sign them up
>>>> >> for sports programs in ultra-expensive arenas built as part of the
>>>> >> complex.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I can just hear some politician thundering from his pulpit:
>>>> >> "...and I shall not rest until every kid is an inner-city kid!"
>>>> >> a
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
>>>> > Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
>>>> > family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
>>>> > Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
>>>> > The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
>>>> > and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>>>>
>>>> What is the solution for this? This is why people move to the suburbs, for
>>>> real or imagined insulation from such things. What would have to be done
>>>> to make the cities as safe as the suburbs? Massive sweeps to round up all
>>>> the junkies, pushers, whores, and nut-cases, and send them to work farms in
>>>> the country? This would never work, or be allowed.
>>>
>>> "Round them up"? That's clearly a right wing solution.
>>>
>>> How do you think jobs would work? Public works anyone?
>>
>> I'm not sure that jobs will help junkies, pushers, or nut-cases.
>> Whores are a more difficult issue--some do it because it's the best
>> paying work they can get, some because they're essentially slaves of a
>> pimp who has them dependent on him for drugs, some because they like
>> it. It's going to be hard to convince a $500/hr call girl to work in
>> a shop for minimum wage.
>>
>> Eliminating the black market in recreational drugs would be a good
>> start.
>>
>>> Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
>>> alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
>>> More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
>>> Not sure how to fix that.
>>
>> Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.
>>
>
> Yes, but when a 12-year-old girl can be kidnapped in front of her house
> while waiting for the school bus and killed, who's to argue the fear is
> unjustified?

There has never been a time when that could not happen.

Child mortality is the lowest it has ever been. Child homicide is up
a tiny bit from 2008 butless than half what it was in 1993. The
number of missing children is down 40% since 1997. and only 1 out of
1000 of those is abduction by a stranger.

< https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/14/there s-never-been-a-safer-time-to-be-a-kid-in-america/?utm_term=. f0fdcb17e441>
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378612 is a reply to message #378595] Wed, 19 December 2018 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 19 Dec 2018 18:06:18 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2018-12-19, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> <rant>
>> I hate the term 'suv', it brings up images of ponces flying to
>> Edinborough and being driven to some some Highland Estate in a 'SUV',
>> where they shoot semi-tame grouse.
>> </rant>
>
> Of course, to be Politicaly Correct, every occurrence of "SUV"
> must be preceded by the phrase "gas-guzzling".

Which, when the SUV in question is a Tesla or the coming Rivian is
likely to make the Politically Correct person's head explode.
>
>> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
>> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
>> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
>> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
>> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
>> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>>
>> Aside from the above, do not get young children ( >8) a smartphone
>> at SpendingTime ( Christmas ). They quickly get addicted.
>
> But, but, but... addiction is one of the pillars of The Economy.
> The purpose of marketing is to bypass people's rational thought
> processes, but creating an addiction is much more effective.
> It's not just for heroin anymore.
>
> "Gotta be KD"
> www.ineedasuzuki.com
>
> OK, looks like it's time to dig out my Grinchified Xmas carols:
>
> THE CHRISTMAS SONG
> (with apologies to Nat "King" Cole)
>
> Chestnuts now on sale in aisle five,
> Jack Frost replicas below.
> Children's Wear has a big red light sale,
> With kids dressed up like Eskimos (excuse me, Inuit)
>
> Everybody knows, fake holly, plastic mistletoe
> Will keep the profit margins bright.
> Tiny tots, LEDs all aglow,
> Await an iPhone X [1] tonight.
>
> You know that Santa's on his way.
> He's bringing bills that you'll need all next year to pay.
> And every mother's child is going to try
> To see Buzz Lightyear: can he really fly?
>
> And so I say this economic prayer
> To Best Buy and to Wal-Mart too.
> Though it's been said many times, many ways,
> Merry Spendfest to you.
>
> (Jingle Bells on cash registers)
>
> [1] When I first wrote this, it was "iPhone 5".
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378613 is a reply to message #378610] Wed, 19 December 2018 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4550
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 20:18:28 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Anyone with an even superficial understanding of statistics?

A vanishingly small proportion of the population then.

--
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Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378614 is a reply to message #378595] Wed, 19 December 2018 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Makowiec is currently offline  Joe Makowiec
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On 19 Dec 2018 in alt.folklore.computers, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> OK, looks like it's time to dig out my Grinchified Xmas carols:
>
> THE CHRISTMAS SONG
> (with apologies to Nat "King" Cole)

That should be, arguably, the Velvet Fog:

https://secondhandsongs.com/work/3013

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Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378618 is a reply to message #378614] Wed, 19 December 2018 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2018-12-19, Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 19 Dec 2018 in alt.folklore.computers, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> OK, looks like it's time to dig out my Grinchified Xmas carols:
>>
>> THE CHRISTMAS SONG
>> (with apologies to Nat "King" Cole)
>
> That should be, arguably, the Velvet Fog:
>
> https://secondhandsongs.com/work/3013

Wow. Thanks for the update (though even that web site
acknowledges that Nat "King" Cole's version is the most famous).

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Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378619 is a reply to message #378610] Wed, 19 December 2018 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
>>>> alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
>>>> More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
>>>> Not sure how to fix that.
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but when a 12-year-old girl can be kidnapped in front of her house
>> while waiting for the school bus and killed, who's to argue the fear is
>> unjustified?
>
> Anyone with an even superficial understanding of statistics?
>
>

Are you willing to play the odds with your kid's life?

--
Pete
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378620 is a reply to message #378619] Wed, 19 December 2018 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> > Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
>>>> > alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
>>>> > More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
>>>> > Not sure how to fix that.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, but when a 12-year-old girl can be kidnapped in front of her house
>>> while waiting for the school bus and killed, who's to argue the fear is
>>> unjustified?
>>
>> Anyone with an even superficial understanding of statistics?
>>
>>
>
> Are you willing to play the odds with your kid's life?

They're more likely to be hit by lightning. They're far more
likely to die in a car crash.

Yes, I play the odds every day. Kids are safer today then
ever before.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378621 is a reply to message #376693] Wed, 19 December 2018 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:18:02 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 14:08:58 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, this makes it a bitch for consumers since we generally have
>> no idea what we're getting. Brand names don't mean much these days.
>
> That might depend on the product. Take luxury cars which usually come
> from Germany. They are IMO overpriced and not much better than cars from
> a manufacturer in Japan or the US.

We had an example of that with motorcycles a few years back. 43% of
the BMWs entered in the 2013 Iron Butt Rally did not finish. 5% of
the Harleys did not finish.

> Or smartphones. iPhones and Samsung on the Android side are IMO
> overpriced too and not much better than cheaper, say LG, products. Some
> people like to waste money to have some kind of status symbol.
>
> While with light bulbs a brand name, like Sylvania, probably doesn't mean
> much today.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378622 is a reply to message #378619] Wed, 19 December 2018 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:24:45 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 10:06:23 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> > Anyway, kids use phones because they're more fun than their
>>>> > alternatives. Not sure how many kids are cowering in fear in NYC.
>>>> > More likely the helicopter parents are to blame.
>>>> > Not sure how to fix that.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it's the parents who cower in fear.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, but when a 12-year-old girl can be kidnapped in front of her house
>>> while waiting for the school bus and killed, who's to argue the fear is
>>> unjustified?
>>
>> Anyone with an even superficial understanding of statistics?
>>
>>
>
> Are you willing to play the odds with your kid's life?

For every kid that gets abducted by a stranger 90 run away from home
voluntarily. 1 percent of children who die in the United States are
murdered by strangers who abducted them. If you want to protect your
kid you really should be working on the other 99 percent.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378623 is a reply to message #376693] Wed, 19 December 2018 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:30:21 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 14:21:37 -0800 (PST), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:00:02 AM UTC-5, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> Besides, most families don't own more than two cars. You need a car that
>>> supports the worst-case use. If the little woman mostly drives to the
>>> grocery store or hairdresser but occasionally has to haul several members
>>> of her son's hockey team plus all their gear, then she needs the bigger
>>> car. If she had several of varying sizes and means of propulsion, then
>>> maybe she could choose the most appropriate for the job.
>>
>> I know a suburban family whose needs are met by owning (1) an SUV
>> for the big jobs or distant trips, and (2) a compact for everything
>> else.
>
> If it's all about waste I am sad that the increase of SUV leads to a
> decrease of (V8) trucks. They are being replaced. :-(

??? The best selling vehicle in the United States in 2017 was the
Ford F-Series, second best was the Chevrolet Silverado, third best was
the Dodge Ram series.

The first big SUV on the list was the Ford Explorer at 13--the Toyota
RAV4 was number 4 but it's a crossover.

Now it's true that sales of V8 trucks are declining but that's true of
V8 everythings.

> Of course it would be better neither SUVs nor trucks are used for the ego.
>
>> But a lot of suburban families these days want big fat SUVS for
>> all vehicles because of ego. Yes, that is their business, but
>> they are consuming scarce fuel and dumping out more pollution than
>> they need to.
>
> I read an article years ago about upper class persons having an electric
> or hybrid car parked in front of their estate. Only to brag and showing
> it to visitors. "Yes, I am green!" Some had a only a few hundred miles on
> the clock. While in the garage sat their Porsche which was used for
> everything (like shopping *LOL*). No, it's actually sad.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378626 is a reply to message #378581] Wed, 19 December 2018 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 3:40:20 AM UTC-5, Peter Flass wrote:

> Most families these days need two,cars, since husband and wife often both
> drive to work, usually in different places. Even if one spouse is home they
> still need a car to run errands and drive kids. Maybe a big and a small car
> will work.

In the old days, even with two people working, often one person
would drive while the other would be driven or use transit, so
one car would suffice for a family.

Unfortunately, today's society makes two cars a requirement in
most families. People live and work too dispersed to use transit.

If we truly want to save energy and pollution, we need to bring
homes and workers closer together to allow transit usage or even
walking. But that would require a MAJOR shift in thinking and
business policy.


> Bigger cars are also usually safer.

Not sure about that. I think it more depends on the relative
mass of the two vehicles.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378627 is a reply to message #378586] Wed, 19 December 2018 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 8:53:19 AM UTC-5, Peter Flass wrote:

>> Likely. I know a lady, who knows another lady, who works in the
>> Social Services, and in that capacity, visits emergency hostels for
>> family's that have been evicted. The hostel is in 'inner city'
>> Dublin, not quite as bad as Inner City Noo York, but not good.
>> The children are afraid of going outside, because of junkies, etc,
>> and spend their home hours watching tv or playing with smart-phones.
>
> What is the solution for this? This is why people move to the suburbs, for
> real or imagined insulation from such things. What would have to be done
> to make the cities as safe as the suburbs? Massive sweeps to round up all
> the junkies, pushers, whores, and nut-cases, and send them to work farms in
> the country? This would never work, or be allowed.

This is obviously a very tough question. But it needs to be solved
regardless of energy or pollution issues. The decay in the cities
inevitably spreads to the suburbs, so moving out is not a solution.

Unfortunately, I think radical changes in society will be required,
and that of course will be vehemently fought. IMHO, we need:
--restoration of the traditional two parent family and discouragement
of single parents.
--discouragement of recreational use of narcotics.

Part of the problem is that people aren't honest about these issues.
Some advocates claim single parents are just as good as two-parents.
Touchy issue. As to drugs, some claim it comes from the medicine
chest and the opiods are all victims. Not true.
Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378628 is a reply to message #378593] Wed, 19 December 2018 19:31 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 12:02:50 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:

> The fix used to be "red light districts" however the professional
> do-gooders managed to petition the government to redistribute the
> crime more equitably. Bringing back red-light districts would be a
> start.

Red Light districts were a problem going way back. The decay
spread outward.
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