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Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #371892] Wed, 08 August 2018 17:28 Go to next message
Anonymous
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Originally posted by: fadden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II_character_set

That page seems totally, bizarrely wrong. Am I just reading it wrong?
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #371896 is a reply to message #371892] Wed, 08 August 2018 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie is currently offline  Charlie
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On 8/8/2018 5:28 PM, fadden wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II_character_set
>
> That page seems totally, bizarrely wrong. Am I just reading it wrong?
>

Looks wrong to me too.
The text font is wrong and even some of the mousetext characters are wrong.

Charlie
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #371923 is a reply to message #371892] Thu, 09 August 2018 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Blakeney is currently offline  Jeff Blakeney
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On 2018-08-08 5:28 PM, fadden wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II_character_set
>
> That page seems totally, bizarrely wrong. Am I just reading it wrong?

Well, seeing as almost all the characters are just in the HTML source as
regular text and they don't seem to be attempting to set the font to one
of the Apple II true type fonts that are available, it isn't too
surprising that it looks wrong. The mouse text characters at least are
PNG images so should be fairly accurate.
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #371925 is a reply to message #371923] Thu, 09 August 2018 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
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Originally posted by: fadden

On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 7:38:31 AM UTC-7, Jeff Blakeney wrote:
> On 2018-08-08 5:28 PM, fadden wrote:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II_character_set
>>
>> That page seems totally, bizarrely wrong. Am I just reading it wrong?
>
> Well, seeing as almost all the characters are just in the HTML source as
> regular text and they don't seem to be attempting to set the font to one
> of the Apple II true type fonts that are available, it isn't too
> surprising that it looks wrong. The mouse text characters at least are
> PNG images so should be fairly accurate.


I don't just mean the glyphs. Look at the character encoding ("code point") values. For example, the //c version seems to have inverse in the high-ASCII range and normal in the low-ASCII range.
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #371931 is a reply to message #371923] Thu, 09 August 2018 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie is currently offline  Charlie
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On 8/9/2018 10:38 AM, Jeff Blakeney wrote:
> On 2018-08-08 5:28 PM, fadden wrote:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II_character_set
>>
>> That page seems totally, bizarrely wrong.  Am I just reading it wrong?
>
> Well, seeing as almost all the characters are just in the HTML source as
> regular text and they don't seem to be attempting to set the font to one
> of the Apple II true type fonts that are available, it isn't too
> surprising that it looks wrong.  The mouse text characters at least are
> PNG images so should be fairly accurate.

The Apple IIgs mouse text characters 70 and 71 are incorrect.

Charlie
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #371932 is a reply to message #371925] Thu, 09 August 2018 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: fadden

On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 8:41:22 AM UTC-7, fadden wrote:
> I don't just mean the glyphs. Look at the character encoding ("code point") values. For example, the //c version seems to have inverse in the high-ASCII range and normal in the low-ASCII range.

FWIW, I put a bunch of commentary in the "talk" page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apple_II_character_set

Not sure I'm up for straightening it all out.
Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372210 is a reply to message #371892] Tue, 14 August 2018 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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Feel free to use the images I created here:

https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_hgr_font_tutorial/ blob/master/pics/apple1_font.png

https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_hgr_font_tutorial/ blob/master/pics/apple2e_font.png

Let me know if you need the inverse and flashing glyphs (.gif)
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372211 is a reply to message #372210] Tue, 14 August 2018 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
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Originally posted by: John Brooks

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 2:10:48 PM UTC-7, Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev' wrote:
> Feel free to use the images I created here:
>
> https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_hgr_font_tutorial/ blob/master/pics/apple1_font.png
>
> https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_hgr_font_tutorial/ blob/master/pics/apple2e_font.png
>
> Let me know if you need the inverse and flashing glyphs (.gif)

Also, title bar chars replace running man on IIGS. GS also has chars for 8x international languages.

-JB
@JBrooksBSI
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372212 is a reply to message #372211] Tue, 14 August 2018 18:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2018, John Brooks wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 2:10:48 PM UTC-7, Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev' wrote:
>> Feel free to use the images I created here:
>>
>> https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_hgr_font_tutorial/ blob/master/pics/apple1_font.png
>>
>> https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_hgr_font_tutorial/ blob/master/pics/apple2e_font.png
>>
>> Let me know if you need the inverse and flashing glyphs (.gif)
>
> Also, title bar chars replace running man on IIGS. GS also has chars for 8x international languages.

I believe they're the ISO646 character sets (which is how I implemented
them the one time I did).

-uso.
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372247 is a reply to message #372212] Wed, 15 August 2018 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
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IIgs chars w/mousetext I did a couple of months ago @ http://www.brutaldeluxe.fr/public/charset/
av
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372273 is a reply to message #372247] Wed, 15 August 2018 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mmphosis is currently offline  mmphosis
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Applesoft BASIC program to display all 256 TEXT characters...

https://www.applefritter.com/comment/85264#comment-85264

The following version works for both 80 and 40 columns...

NEW
0 TEXT : H$ = "0123456789ABCDEF": W = (PEEK(33) = 80) + 1 : IF W=2 THEN
W$="."
1 HOME : VTAB 3: HTAB 13 * W + 1 - W
2 FOR H = 1 TO 16: PRINT W$MID$(H$,H,1);:NEXT:PRINT
3 FOR V = 1 TO 16: PRINT
4 HTAB 11 * W:A = PEEK (41) * 256
5 LET A = A + PEEK (40)
6 PRINT MID$ (H$,V,1)W$;
7 FOR H = 1 TO 16
8 POKE A + H + 11,C:C = C + 1
9 NEXT H,V

REM 80 COLUMNS
PR#3
RUN
POKE 49167,0 : REM Show ALTCHRSET
POKE 49166,0 : REM Don't show ALTCHRSET

REM 40 COLUMNS
PR#0
RUN
POKE 49167,0 : REM Show ALTCHRSET
POKE 49166,0 : REM Don't show ALTCHRSET
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372362 is a reply to message #372273] Fri, 17 August 2018 04:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Brian Patrie

On 2018-08-15 17:33, mmphosis wrote:
> Applesoft BASIC program to display all 256 TEXT characters...
>
> https://www.applefritter.com/comment/85264#comment-85264
>
> The following version works for both 80 and 40 columns...
>
> NEW
> 0 TEXT : H$ = "0123456789ABCDEF": W = (PEEK(33) = 80) + 1 : IF W=2 THEN
> W$="."
> 1 HOME : VTAB 3: HTAB 13 * W + 1 - W
> 2 FOR H = 1 TO 16: PRINT W$MID$(H$,H,1);:NEXT:PRINT
> 3 FOR V = 1 TO 16: PRINT
> 4 HTAB 11 * W:A = PEEK (41) * 256
> 5 LET A = A + PEEK (40)
> 6 PRINT MID$ (H$,V,1)W$;
> 7 FOR H = 1 TO 16
> 8 POKE A + H + 11,C:C = C + 1
> 9 NEXT H,V
>
> REM 80 COLUMNS
> PR#3
> RUN
> POKE 49167,0 : REM Show ALTCHRSET
> POKE 49166,0 : REM Don't show ALTCHRSET
>
> REM 40 COLUMNS
> PR#0
> RUN
> POKE 49167,0 : REM Show ALTCHRSET
> POKE 49166,0 : REM Don't show ALTCHRSET

I'm rather fond of this little bugger i whipped up several years ago.

1 TEXT : HOME : PRINT CHR$(17): FOR H = 0 TO 15: COLOR= H: VLIN 0,31
AT H: NEXT : FOR V = 0 TO 15: COLOR= V: HLIN 0,15 AT V * 2 + 1: NEXT
9 TEXT : VTAB 18: IF PEEK (64435) = 6 THEN GET Z$: IF Z$ > CHR$ (31)
THEN POKE 49167 - ( PEEK (49182) > 127),.: GOTO 9

Type any non-control character to toggle alternate character set.
Type any control character to exit.
Remove the PRINT CHR$(17) for it not to force 40 columns.
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372401 is a reply to message #372362] Fri, 17 August 2018 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mmphosis is currently offline  mmphosis
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Thanks, that is clever, short and fast! :)

Similar to IIgs w/mousetext images (Merci pour le lien Antoine), I am
looking to making screenshots of various models of Apple II with this 16x16
pattern of characters.
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372402 is a reply to message #372247] Fri, 17 August 2018 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mmphosis is currently offline  mmphosis
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https://archive.org/stream/Apple_IIgs_Hardware_Reference_HiR es#page/n275

# @ [ \ ] ` { | } ˜ U.S. English ISO-IR-006
£ @ [ \ ] ` { | } ˜ U.K. English CP01101
£ à ° ç § ` é ù è ¨ French ISO-IR-025
# @ Æ Ø Å ` æ ø å ˜ Danish CP01107
£ § ¡ Ñ ¿ ` ʺ ñ ç ˜ Spanish
£ § ʺ ç é ù à ò è ì Italian
# § Ä Ö Ü ` ä ö ü ß German ISO-IR-021
# @ Ä Ö Å ` ä ö å ˜ Swedish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_646

Not that the TEXT mode characters would have mattered much because the
system software used the graphics mode of the IIGS...

I think the ʺ glyph (I made this up to look like a longer double quote)
should have been ° (degree or masculine ordinal?) in Spanish and Italian.

Swedish was missing a few characters (CP01106.) How many Swedish IIGS's
were sold?

Are these ROM characters set in the IIGS ROM, or in a separate character set
ROM?
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372418 is a reply to message #372402] Fri, 17 August 2018 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gbody4 is currently offline  gbody4
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I think the character sets are internal to the Mega II.
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372489 is a reply to message #372210] Sat, 18 August 2018 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
barrym95838 is currently offline  barrym95838
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On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 2:10:48 PM UTC-7, Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev' wrote:
> Feel free to use the images I created here:
>
> https://github.com/Michaelangel007/apple2_hgr_font_tutorial/ blob/master/pics/apple1_font.png
> ...

Your 3 has a zit on its bottom, and I think the blank line should be at the
top of all, not the bottom of all.

Mike B.
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372498 is a reply to message #372489] Sat, 18 August 2018 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Denis Molony

These images show the contents of a character ROM file that claims to be from the IIe. The second one is inverted to show where the blank lines are.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jhy5fbdw64ljmk4/Screen%20Shot%2020 18-08-19%20at%209.51.24%20am.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zxhdk3ttcvtytpq/Screen%20Shot%2020 18-08-19%20at%209.56.33%20am.png?dl=0

It was on one of Antoine's disks.
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372552 is a reply to message #372273] Sun, 19 August 2018 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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I prefer this One Liner:

1 TEXT:HOME:FOR I=0 TO 31:FOR Y=0 TO 7:POKE 1024 + 128*Y + I, I + 32*Y:NEXT:NEXT:VTAB 22:PRINT
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372553 is a reply to message #372273] Sun, 19 August 2018 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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Here is a small patch (lines 1 & 2) that will print the hex header correctly in both 40 and 80 column mode:

1 HOME : VTAB 3: HTAB 13 * W + 1 - W:L$=H$:IF PEEK(49176) > 127 THEN L$ = " 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F"
2 PRINT L$

That is:

NEW
0 TEXT : H$ = "0123456789ABCDEF": W = (PEEK(33) = 80) + 1 : IF W=2 THEN
W$="."
1 HOME : VTAB 3: HTAB 13 * W + 1 - W:L$=H$:IF PEEK(49176) > 127 THEN L$ = " 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F"
2 PRINT L$
3 FOR V = 1 TO 16: PRINT
4 HTAB 11 * W:A = PEEK (41) * 256
5 LET A = A + PEEK (40)
6 PRINT MID$ (H$,V,1)W$;
7 FOR H = 1 TO 16
8 POKE A + H + 11,C:C = C + 1
9 NEXT H,V

Cheers
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372577 is a reply to message #372553] Sun, 19 August 2018 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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Actually, that soft-switch should be $C01F to detect 80-cols:

1 HOME : VTAB 3: HTAB 13 * W + 1 - W:L$=H$:IF PEEK(49183) > 127 THEN L$ = " 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F"
Re: Apple II character set entry on wikipedia [message #372578 is a reply to message #372489] Sun, 19 August 2018 14:34 Go to previous message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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Thanks for the correction Mike.

The '3' had been on my TO VERIFY list for a while now if Sather was correct or not. Looks like he wasn't. Thanks for the nudge to get this this done.

I also fixed the glyphs being shifted up. Verified on my real Apple ][+.

I've updated the PRINT.ALL.CHARS to work with Applesoft and Integer Basic

AppleSoft
1 TEXT:HOME:FOR I=0 TO 31:FOR Y=0 TO 7:POKE 1024 + 128*Y + I, I + 32*Y:NEXT:NEXT:VTAB 22:PRINT

Integer Basic
1 TEXT:CALL-936:FOR I=0 TO 31:FOR Y=0 TO 7:POKE 1024 + 128*Y + I, I + 32*Y:NEXT Y:NEXT I:VTAB 22:PRINT:END
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