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Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368115] Wed, 23 May 2018 23:10 Go to next message
TransportLayer is currently offline  TransportLayer
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2018
Karma: 0
Junior Member
This is a Macintosh I've spent a long time on, and it has just suddenly
died. I'm very saddened by this, and am hoping to get help figuring out
what's wrong and how to fix it.

Around a month ago, I replaced every component listed in this spreadsheet:
( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132RwzC8HM5ask-BdY_31 txErOCwJDSkz099GY2XLpE0/edit?usp=sharing).
Other than still needing some display size adjustments, it seemed to be
working fantastically -- I had even bought 4MB of RAM for it, installed a
ROM-inator (https://www.bigmessowires.com/mac-rom-inator/), and two small
fans. Yesterday, I booted off of a Central Point Emergency/DiskFix disk,
and noticed the ROM-inator startup image appear while the Finder was
loading. I thought that was strange, and hit "R" to see if it was really
loaded or not. It seemed to just continue booting, however, DiskFix showed
my ROM disk, which shouldn't have been there unless I booted from the ROM
instead. I went into the settings menu for DiskFix, and the moment I
pressed the OK button to save my changes, the screen went off. I'm unsure
if this is related to the issue or not, but because of how it happened, I'm
not convinced it was just a coincidence.

Now, the Macintosh just makes the little short high-pitched noise it makes
when first powering on the CRT, immediately followed by the disk drive
making a little noise, and then repeating, over and over (CRT, disk, CRT,
disk, etc.), at about 2 cycles per second (so one "CRT, disk, CRT, disk"
every second). There is no startup sound, and the display never comes on. I
removed my custom ROMs, re-flashed and verified them, and put them back in,
but the Macintosh has the same issue. I checked the cables, and there is
continuity between the analogue and logic board's connectors. I removed my
custom ROMs and put the original ROMs back in, and there is still no
difference. I unplugged the internal floppy drive, and could not hear the
CRT come on anymore, but I could hear the speaker turn on (no audio, just
the little clicking noise of power being applied) and my fans turn on, so I
know there was still power.

I replaced the logic board with one that I know works, and there was a
startup bong, and blinking question mark disk. I inserted a known good
disk, there was a Happy Mac, followed by the screen going off. The Mac now
briefly makes a very quiet sound when switching it on, but it is otherwise
completely dead.

I would appreciate any help I can get in trying to rescue my poor little
Mac. I've spent so long with it, and I'm very sad that it's no longer
working. I'm very worried I may have killed two logic boards now as well.

Please let me know if you need any additional details, and I will do my
best to provide them.

Thank you for your time,
TransportLayer

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368116 is a reply to message #368115] Thu, 24 May 2018 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Notgoing Totellyou is currently offline  Notgoing Totellyou
Messages: 284
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Try adjusting the 5v cutoff on the ab

On Thu, May 24, 2018, 12:19 AM TransportLayer <
vintagemacs@transportlayer.org> wrote:

> This is a Macintosh I've spent a long time on, and it has just suddenly
> died. I'm very saddened by this, and am hoping to get help figuring out
> what's wrong and how to fix it.
>
> Around a month ago, I replaced every component listed in this spreadsheet:
> (
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132RwzC8HM5ask-BdY_31 txErOCwJDSkz099GY2XLpE0/edit?usp=sharing).
> Other than still needing some display size adjustments, it seemed to be
> working fantastically -- I had even bought 4MB of RAM for it, installed a
> ROM-inator (https://www.bigmessowires.com/mac-rom-inator/), and two small
> fans. Yesterday, I booted off of a Central Point Emergency/DiskFix disk,
> and noticed the ROM-inator startup image appear while the Finder was
> loading. I thought that was strange, and hit "R" to see if it was really
> loaded or not. It seemed to just continue booting, however, DiskFix showed
> my ROM disk, which shouldn't have been there unless I booted from the ROM
> instead. I went into the settings menu for DiskFix, and the moment I
> pressed the OK button to save my changes, the screen went off. I'm unsure
> if this is related to the issue or not, but because of how it happened, I'm
> not convinced it was just a coincidence.
>
> Now, the Macintosh just makes the little short high-pitched noise it makes
> when first powering on the CRT, immediately followed by the disk drive
> making a little noise, and then repeating, over and over (CRT, disk, CRT,
> disk, etc.), at about 2 cycles per second (so one "CRT, disk, CRT, disk"
> every second). There is no startup sound, and the display never comes on. I
> removed my custom ROMs, re-flashed and verified them, and put them back in,
> but the Macintosh has the same issue. I checked the cables, and there is
> continuity between the analogue and logic board's connectors. I removed my
> custom ROMs and put the original ROMs back in, and there is still no
> difference. I unplugged the internal floppy drive, and could not hear the
> CRT come on anymore, but I could hear the speaker turn on (no audio, just
> the little clicking noise of power being applied) and my fans turn on, so I
> know there was still power.
>
> I replaced the logic board with one that I know works, and there was a
> startup bong, and blinking question mark disk. I inserted a known good
> disk, there was a Happy Mac, followed by the screen going off. The Mac now
> briefly makes a very quiet sound when switching it on, but it is otherwise
> completely dead.
>
> I would appreciate any help I can get in trying to rescue my poor little
> Mac. I've spent so long with it, and I'm very sad that it's no longer
> working. I'm very worried I may have killed two logic boards now as well.
>
> Please let me know if you need any additional details, and I will do my
> best to provide them.
>
> Thank you for your time,
> TransportLayer
>
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> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
> group.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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>

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368119 is a reply to message #368116] Thu, 24 May 2018 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clark Martin is currently offline  Clark Martin
Messages: 156
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
I had to do this once. In my case the computer would startup normally till it got to booting the floppy, then it would restart and repeat the process. The load from the floppy drive dragged down the power supply and the 5V line dropped too low, causing a reset. Adjust the power supply adjustment potentiometer slowly till the 5V line reads 5.00V on a voltmeter.

Clark Martin
A designated driver on the information Super Highway

> On May 23, 2018, at 9:26 PM, Hardware Mack <hardwaremack@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Try adjusting the 5v cutoff on the ab
>
>

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368219 is a reply to message #368116] Mon, 28 May 2018 08:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TransportLayer is currently offline  TransportLayer
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2018
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Junior Member
I've adjusted the pot as far clockwise and counterclockwise as it goes,
with no change in symptoms. I couldn't tell what the actual voltages were
while I was adjusting it, as they were going up then back down (repeatedly
-- I'm assuming at the same rate that I can hear the CRT repeatedly being
powered) faster than my meter could read.

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 9:26:35 PM UTC-7, Notgoing Totellyou wrote:
>
> Try adjusting the 5v cutoff on the ab
>

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368265 is a reply to message #368219] Tue, 29 May 2018 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stephen Walters is currently offline  Stephen Walters
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2018
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This is why you need a good old fashioned analogue multimeter when fiddling with monitors.

Stephen G7VFY

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368266 is a reply to message #368219] Tue, 29 May 2018 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clark Martin is currently offline  Clark Martin
Messages: 156
Registered: August 2012
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Senior Member
Hold the reset button in as you check the voltage. This will keep it from cycling up and down.

Clark Martin
A designated driver on the information Super Highway

> On May 28, 2018, at 5:03 AM, TransportLayer <vintagemacs@transportlayer.org> wrote:
>
> I've adjusted the pot as far clockwise and counterclockwise as it goes, with no change in symptoms. I couldn't tell what the actual voltages were while I was adjusting it, as they were going up then back down (repeatedly -- I'm assuming at the same rate that I can hear the CRT repeatedly being powered) faster than my meter could read.

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368298 is a reply to message #368115] Wed, 30 May 2018 08:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TransportLayer is currently offline  TransportLayer
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Registered: May 2018
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*Clark Martin*:

> Hold the reset button in as you check the voltage. This will keep it from
> cycling up and down.
>

Unfortunately, this didn't work for me -- The Macintosh is still power
cycling at about 2 cycles per second.

*Stephen Walters*:

> This is why you need a good old fashioned analogue multimeter when
> fiddling with monitors.
>

I don't disagree, however, I don't think it would've helped me in this
particular situation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368299 is a reply to message #368115] Wed, 30 May 2018 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TransportLayer is currently offline  TransportLayer
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Updated symptoms summary:

- I can hear the Macintosh consistently power cycling at about 2 cycles
per second. I hear the CRT charge and the floppy drive make a little noise.
- There is no bong or display.
- The cables have good connections, as tested with a multimeter.
- All of the components in the spreadsheet linked in the original post
have been replaced except for the J4-J7 cable (however, it and the board
connectors have been inspected and tested with a multimeter).
- The voltages are cycling (along with the rest of the machine).
- Adjusting the voltage cutoff does not change the symptoms at all.
- Holding the reset button on the logic board does not change the
symptoms at all.

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368303 is a reply to message #368299] Wed, 30 May 2018 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Christian Wacker is currently offline  Christian Wacker
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Have you tried to boot it with the power to the CRT removed?

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 7:44 AM, TransportLayer <
vintagemacs@transportlayer.org> wrote:

> Updated symptoms summary:
>
> - I can hear the Macintosh consistently power cycling at about 2
> cycles per second. I hear the CRT charge and the floppy drive make a little
> noise.
> - There is no bong or display.
> - The cables have good connections, as tested with a multimeter.
> - All of the components in the spreadsheet linked in the original post
> have been replaced except for the J4-J7 cable (however, it and the board
> connectors have been inspected and tested with a multimeter).
> - The voltages are cycling (along with the rest of the machine).
> - Adjusting the voltage cutoff does not change the symptoms at all.
> - Holding the reset button on the logic board does not change the
> symptoms at all.
>
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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368304 is a reply to message #368303] Wed, 30 May 2018 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dylan McDermond is currently offline  Dylan McDermond
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> On May 30, 2018, at 6:22 AM, Christian Wacker <pizzaboy192@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Have you tried to boot it with the power to the CRT removed?

Powering up with the anode cap off the tube is generally a bad idea.

I would be more inclined to power up the analog section without the Logic Board. I’m not sure if it would work like I’m thinking but you’d be looking for no resets and a solid white raster on the CRT.

- Dylan

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368341 is a reply to message #368115] Thu, 31 May 2018 03:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TransportLayer is currently offline  TransportLayer
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*Dylan McDermond*:
>
> I would be more inclined to power up the analog section without the Logic
> Board.
>

Disconnecting the logic board didn't change much, however, it caused the
power cycles to happen more quickly -- I hear the CRT charging about 3-4
times per second now. No floppy noises, of course, as that's powered by the
logic board. Voltage is cycling just as before (along with what I hear the
CRT doing).

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Re: Help: Macintosh Plus died, no longer boots [message #368348 is a reply to message #368341] Thu, 31 May 2018 09:35 Go to previous message
David Bourne is currently offline  David Bourne
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Registered: May 2018
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You probably know but it sounds very much like there is a component failure on the analog board. Startup circuit starts charging and gets to a point where the faulty component(s) drain the power away and so on. The fact that the power cycles are faster without the logic board fits in with components failing when the reach a particular voltage or charge state. This will happen faster when there is no power diverted to the logic board. Hope this helps a little bit

> On 31 May 2018, at 5:02 pm, TransportLayer <vintagemacs@transportlayer.org> wrote:
>
> Dylan McDermond:
> I would be more inclined to power up the analog section without the Logic Board.
>
> Disconnecting the logic board didn't change much, however, it caused the power cycles to happen more quickly -- I hear the CRT charging about 3-4 times per second now. No floppy noises, of course, as that's powered by the logic board. Voltage is cycling just as before (along with what I hear the CRT doing).
>
> --
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