| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360890 is a reply to message #360845] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 08:20   |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:16:45 -0600, Dave Garland
> <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/15/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>> On 2018-01-14, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 1/14/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>
>>>> > Bike riders arrogance blinds them to anything other than exclusive
>>>> > use of roads they did not pay for.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> Relax, in the US at least, everybody pays for the roads.
>>>
>>> Nope. Cyclists do not pay any taxes *as* *cyclists*.
>>
>> But they do *as* *taxpayers*. When the city repaved the street in
>> front of my house, they said "that'll be $2500 for your property tax
>> bill (easy installments available)." They didn't ask if I was a
>> motorist or a cyclist.
>>
>> Motorists (and especially heavy trucks) cause virtually all of the
>> wear and tear, pollution, and need for more lanes, so they should pay
>> a bit more, eh?
>
> Of course, but they just miiiight have a strong lobby. Uhm, concerned
> citizens group.
>
It's really a price subsidy for consumers, since if truckers actually paid
their share costs of goods would have yo rise drastically. OTOH, a lot of
long-haul would probably move from road to rail.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360892 is a reply to message #360036] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 09:14 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Dave Garland wrote:
> On 1/15/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>> On 2018-01-14, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>> On 1/14/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>
>>>> Bike riders arrogance blinds them to anything other than exclusive
>>>> use of roads they did not pay for.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Relax, in the US at least, everybody pays for the roads.
>>
>> Nope. Cyclists do not pay any taxes *as* *cyclists*.
>
> But they do *as* *taxpayers*. When the city repaved the street in
> front of my house, they said "that'll be $2500 for your property tax
> bill (easy installments available)." They didn't ask if I was a
> motorist or a cyclist.
>
> Motorists (and especially heavy trucks) cause virtually all of the
> wear and tear, pollution, and need for more lanes, so they should pay
> a bit more, eh?
>
Those cyclists eat, wear clothes and buy necessities, don't they?
/BAH
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360906 is a reply to message #360036] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 13:48 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 1/16/2018 7:20 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:16:45 -0600, Dave Garland
>>> <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/15/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>>> > On 2018-01-14, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 1/14/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>> Bike riders arrogance blinds them to anything other than exclusive
>>>> >>> use of roads they did not pay for.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> Relax, in the US at least, everybody pays for the roads.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nope. Cyclists do not pay any taxes *as* *cyclists*.
>>>>
>>>> But they do *as* *taxpayers*. When the city repaved the street in
>>>> front of my house, they said "that'll be $2500 for your property tax
>>>> bill (easy installments available)." They didn't ask if I was a
>>>> motorist or a cyclist.
>>>>
>>>> Motorists (and especially heavy trucks) cause virtually all of the
>>>> wear and tear, pollution, and need for more lanes, so they should pay
>>>> a bit more, eh?
>>>
>>> Of course, but they just miiiight have a strong lobby. Uhm, concerned
>>> citizens group.
>>>
>>
>> It's really a price subsidy for consumers, since if truckers actually paid
>> their share costs of goods would have yo rise drastically.
>
> There's truth in that. But does it make sense for everybody to have to
> subsidize everything? ("Conservatives" call that "socialism" when it
> involves subsidizing health care instead of trucking companies.)
I didn't say I liked it.
> Wouldn't it make more sense for the price of goods to more accurately
> reflect their cost (including transport)?
It would, but our economic system is supported in the backs of the middle
class. The rich get tax loopholes and the poor get handouts. If prices went
up the poor would just get more to compensate, and guess who would pay for
it?
> That might even encourage
> better sales of locally-produced goods from producers that aren't
> multinational conglomerates..
Good idea, but the big money would fight it.
>
> OTOH, a lot of
>> long-haul would probably move from road to rail.
>
> Rail is very efficient. If they'd upgrade the rails, it would probably
> be faster as well. Still need trucks for the final mile, though.
>
>
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360907 is a reply to message #360036] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 15:22 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On 15 Jan 2018 10:44:59 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-01-14, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> On 1/14/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>> On 2018-01-13, Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 13 Jan 2018 18:56:33 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Vancouver, B.C., Canada - the city that from time to time turns
>>>> > over another much-needed traffic lane to a handful of bicycles.
>>>> > Gotta go green, y'know.
>>>>
>>>> And special "bike facilities" are usually designed by people who know
>>>> less than nothing about bikes, so bike riders won't use them either.
>>>
>>> Bike riders arrogance blinds them to anything other than exclusive
>>> use of roads they did not pay for.
>>>
>>>
>> Relax, in the US at least, everybody pays for the roads.
>
> Nope. Cyclists do not pay any taxes *as* *cyclists*.
So? They do pay taxes.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360910 is a reply to message #360881] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 15:57 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
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On 2018-01-16, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, January 15, 2018 at 8:13:47 PM UTC-7, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> Would you believe oxytocin deficit:
>>
>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-moral-molecule/2011 09/why-some-people-are-evil
>
> I suppose that could be. I've heard of oxytocin before: it's released during
> pregnancy, and helps mothers bond with their infants.
Ideas for science fiction stories:
- population growth outstrips oxytocin supply
- stress from population pressure desensitizes people to oxytocin
- someone plants oxytocin bombs in Washington DC and Wall Street
The first two could explain the rise of psychopathic behaviour
in North America starting in the 1980s.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360930 is a reply to message #360890] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 22:15 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 06:20:10 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:16:45 -0600, Dave Garland
>> <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/15/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>>> On 2018-01-14, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 1/14/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> Bike riders arrogance blinds them to anything other than exclusive
>>>> >> use of roads they did not pay for.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> > Relax, in the US at least, everybody pays for the roads.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Cyclists do not pay any taxes *as* *cyclists*.
>>>
>>> But they do *as* *taxpayers*. When the city repaved the street in
>>> front of my house, they said "that'll be $2500 for your property tax
>>> bill (easy installments available)." They didn't ask if I was a
>>> motorist or a cyclist.
>>>
>>> Motorists (and especially heavy trucks) cause virtually all of the
>>> wear and tear, pollution, and need for more lanes, so they should pay
>>> a bit more, eh?
>>
>> Of course, but they just miiiight have a strong lobby. Uhm, concerned
>> citizens group.
>>
>
> It's really a price subsidy for consumers, since if truckers actually paid
> their share costs of goods would have yo rise drastically. OTOH, a lot of
> long-haul would probably move from road to rail.
There is this myth that rail is underutilized for freight in the US.
The fact is that more than 40 percent of US freight is moved by rail
vs a little over 10 percent for the EU. About 45 percent of EU
freight is moved by truck vs about 30 percent in the US.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360931 is a reply to message #360930] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 22:20 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 8:15:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
> There is this myth that rail is underutilized for freight in the US.
> The fact is that more than 40 percent of US freight is moved by rail
> vs a little over 10 percent for the EU. About 45 percent of EU
> freight is moved by truck vs about 30 percent in the US.
That others may do worse does not necessarily mean this is a myth. Perhaps 80
percent of freight could be moved by rail with a saving in fossil fuel use.
John Savard
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360932 is a reply to message #360890] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 22:38 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> It's really a price subsidy for consumers, since if truckers actually
> paid their share costs of goods would have yo rise drastically. OTOH,
> a lot of long-haul would probably move from road to rail.
Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (Oxford History of the United
States Book 6) ... talks about US industrialization enabled by railroad
(river, canal) transportation ... centralized mass production with
market over large area.
pg12/loc337-39: The 9,000 miles of rail in the United States by 1850 led
the world, but paled in comparison with the 21,000 additional miles laid
during the next decade, which gave to the United States in 1860 a larger
rail network than in the rest of the world combined.
pg12/loc349-50: The difference between the wholesale price of western
pork in Cincinnati and New York declined from $9.53 to $1.18 a barrel;
the difference in the wholesale price of western flour between the same
two cities dropped from $2.48 to 28 cents.
pg13/loc364-68: This pre-industrial world could not survive the
transportation revolution, which made possible a division of labor and
specialization of production for ever larger and more distant
markets. More and more farmers specialized in crops for which their soil
and climate were most suitable. With the cash from sale of these crops
they bought food and clothing and hardware previously made locally or by
themselves but now grown, processed, or manufactured elsewhere and
shipped in by canal or rail.
....
past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#56 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#57 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#59 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#60 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#61 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#62 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#0 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#11 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#23 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#48 fraying infrastructure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#68 Historian predicts the end of 'science superpowers'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#36 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#52 TCM's Moguls documentary series
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#28 "Highway Patrol" back on TV
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#29 "Highway Patrol" back on TV
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#47 Future of support for telephone rotary dial ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#76 IMPI (System/38 / AS/400 historical)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#12 1970--protesters seize computer center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016h.html#109 Minimum Wage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#70 [CM] What was your first home computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#31 Disregard post (another screwup; absolutely nothing to do with computers whatsoever!)
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360933 is a reply to message #360931] |
Tue, 16 January 2018 23:50 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:20:24 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 8:15:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> There is this myth that rail is underutilized for freight in the US.
>> The fact is that more than 40 percent of US freight is moved by rail
>> vs a little over 10 percent for the EU. About 45 percent of EU
>> freight is moved by truck vs about 30 percent in the US.
>
> That others may do worse does not necessarily mean this is a myth. Perhaps 80
> percent of freight could be moved by rail with a saving in fossil fuel use.
Only 70 percent of it is moved by rail and truck now, so where would
the other 10 percent come from? Would you take it out pipelines and
load it onto trains or something?
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360934 is a reply to message #360933] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 00:11 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 9:51:00 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:20:24 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 8:15:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> There is this myth that rail is underutilized for freight in the US.
>>> The fact is that more than 40 percent of US freight is moved by rail
>>> vs a little over 10 percent for the EU. About 45 percent of EU
>>> freight is moved by truck vs about 30 percent in the US.
>> That others may do worse does not necessarily mean this is a myth. Perhaps 80
>> percent of freight could be moved by rail with a saving in fossil fuel use.
> Only 70 percent of it is moved by rail and truck now, so where would
> the other 10 percent come from? Would you take it out pipelines and
> load it onto trains or something?
Oh, well, then just 60 percent instead of 40. Maybe even that is too high, since
clearly trains wouldn't be used for moving things around inside a single city.
John Savard
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360951 is a reply to message #360036] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 09:38 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dave Garland wrote:
> On 1/16/2018 8:14 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> Dave Garland wrote:
>>> On 1/15/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>>> On 2018-01-14, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 1/14/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> Bike riders arrogance blinds them to anything other than exclusive
>>>> >> use of roads they did not pay for.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> > Relax, in the US at least, everybody pays for the roads.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Cyclists do not pay any taxes *as* *cyclists*.
>>>
>>> But they do *as* *taxpayers*. When the city repaved the street in
>>> front of my house, they said "that'll be $2500 for your property tax
>>> bill (easy installments available)." They didn't ask if I was a
>>> motorist or a cyclist.
>>>
>>> Motorists (and especially heavy trucks) cause virtually all of the
>>> wear and tear, pollution, and need for more lanes, so they should pay
>>> a bit more, eh?
>>>
>> Those cyclists eat, wear clothes and buy necessities, don't they?
>>
> That's certainly a good argument for subsidizing health care.
You should notice how those goods get into the store or are delivered
if bought on-line.
>
> But while health care may be the only way for people to stay alive,
> trucks aren't the only possible way to move goods.
How do you get tons of goods from the rails to the stores or homes?
Horse-drawn carriages?
> And goods mostly
> don't have to come from halfway around the world, either.
You're kidding...I hope you're kidding.
/BAH
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360954 is a reply to message #360932] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 09:38 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> It's really a price subsidy for consumers, since if truckers actually
>> paid their share costs of goods would have yo rise drastically. OTOH,
>> a lot of long-haul would probably move from road to rail.
>
> Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (Oxford History of the United
> States Book 6) ... talks about US industrialization enabled by railroad
> (river, canal) transportation ... centralized mass production with
> market over large area.
>
> pg12/loc337-39: The 9,000 miles of rail in the United States by 1850 led
> the world, but paled in comparison with the 21,000 additional miles laid
> during the next decade, which gave to the United States in 1860 a larger
> rail network than in the rest of the world combined.
>
> pg12/loc349-50: The difference between the wholesale price of western
> pork in Cincinnati and New York declined from $9.53 to $1.18 a barrel;
> the difference in the wholesale price of western flour between the same
> two cities dropped from $2.48 to 28 cents.
>
> pg13/loc364-68: This pre-industrial world could not survive the
> transportation revolution, which made possible a division of labor and
> specialization of production for ever larger and more distant
> markets. More and more farmers specialized in crops for which their soil
> and climate were most suitable. With the cash from sale of these crops
> they bought food and clothing and hardware previously made locally or by
> themselves but now grown, processed, or manufactured elsewhere and
> shipped in by canal or rail.
>
> ...
>
> past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
> building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
> effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
<snip>
Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
/BAH
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360955 is a reply to message #360036] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 09:38 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dave Garland wrote:
> On 1/16/2018 7:20 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:16:45 -0600, Dave Garland
>>> <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/15/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>>> > On 2018-01-14, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 1/14/2018 4:44 AM, Huge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>> Bike riders arrogance blinds them to anything other than exclusive
>>>> >>> use of roads they did not pay for.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> Relax, in the US at least, everybody pays for the roads.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nope. Cyclists do not pay any taxes *as* *cyclists*.
>>>>
>>>> But they do *as* *taxpayers*. When the city repaved the street in
>>>> front of my house, they said "that'll be $2500 for your property tax
>>>> bill (easy installments available)." They didn't ask if I was a
>>>> motorist or a cyclist.
>>>>
>>>> Motorists (and especially heavy trucks) cause virtually all of the
>>>> wear and tear, pollution, and need for more lanes, so they should pay
>>>> a bit more, eh?
>>>
>>> Of course, but they just miiiight have a strong lobby. Uhm, concerned
>>> citizens group.
>>>
>>
>> It's really a price subsidy for consumers, since if truckers actually paid
>> their share costs of goods would have yo rise drastically.
>
> There's truth in that. But does it make sense for everybody to have to
> subsidize everything? ("Conservatives" call that "socialism" when it
> involves subsidizing health care instead of trucking companies.)
> Wouldn't it make more sense for the price of goods to more accurately
> reflect their cost (including transport)? That might even encourage
> better sales of locally-produced goods from producers that aren't
> multinational conglomerates..
>
> OTOH, a lot of
>> long-haul would probably move from road to rail.
>
> Rail is very efficient. If they'd upgrade the rails, it would probably
> be faster as well. Still need trucks for the final mile, though.
A lot of goods are already being shipped by rail. Next time you
stop for a train, count the number of container boxes which
probably came straight from a ship.
/BAH
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360958 is a reply to message #360954] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 10:37 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>
>> past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
>> building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
>> effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
>
> <snip>
>
> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
While it's true that the interstate highway system reasons
for existance included military mobilization, it was not
for tanks (which would be transported via flatbed truck or rail - tanks are
not designed for long distance travel on their own), but
rather the logistics tail and rapid mobilization.
Note also that in areas of flyover country, certain
portions of the interstate were planned to be emergency
airfields in time of conflict.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360967 is a reply to message #360954] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 11:23 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#42 Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983
part of the original interstate highway system justification was done
for tanks ... US had observed that in WW2 that Germany had lots of
advantage being able to (relatively) easily shifting forces from eastern
and western fronts. In the 80s, realistically this justification had
almost disappeared ... roads were being designed for lifetime ESALs by
heavy trucks ... but US spent lots of money upgrading Germany's bridge
weight limits to handle weight of Abrams M1 tanks (70 tons and growing).
some recent posts mentioning Abrams
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017b.html#14 Trump to sign cyber security order
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017c.html#42 Profitable Companies, No Taxes: Here's How They Did It
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017d.html#13 The Pentagon still uses computer software from 1958 to manage its contracts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017e.html#1 How Desert Storm Destroyed the US Military
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#14 Fast OODA-Loops increase Maneuverability
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#31 Disregard post (another screwup; absolutely nothing to do with computers whatsoever!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#40 Disregard post (another screwup; absolutely nothing to do with computers whatsoever!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#74 On Tactics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017j.html#2 WW II cryptography
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017j.html#73 A-10
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#12 Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#14 Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983
however since then, US also almost totally eliminated funding of
maintenance of its own bridges (and other infrastructure) ... with lack
of projects and jobs ... students stopped taking civil engineer courses
and universities started cutting back univ. civil engineering programs.
"Confidence Men: Wall Street, Washington, and the Education of a
President", Volcker quote,
http://www.amazon.com/Confidence-Men-Washington-Education-eb ook/dp/B0089LOKKS
pg290:
Well, I said, 'The trouble with the United States recently is we spent
several decades not producing many civil engineers and producing a
huge number of financial engineers. And the result is s**tty bridges
and a s**tty financial system!
.... snip ...
The previous administration had stimulus funds for infrastructure
projects. From the laws of unintended consequences, from what stimulus
funds that did make it into infrastructure projects (that didn't get
skimmed/siphoned off) resulted in the projects having to hire Chinese
firms in order to get civil engineers. Some recent posts about
Volcker quote:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#17 Destruction of the Middle Class
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#26 Milton Friedman's Cherished Theory Is Laid to Rest
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#72 [CM] What was your first home computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#79 [CM] What was your first home computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017g.html#47 The rise and fall of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#2 Trump is taking the wrong approach to China on tech, says ex-Reagan official who helped beat Soviets
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017i.html#1 Any definitive reference for why the PDP-11 was little-endian?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017i.html#60 When Working From Home Doesn't Work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017j.html#61 What if the Kuomintang Had Won the Chinese Civil War?
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360976 is a reply to message #360933] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 13:16 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:20:24 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 8:15:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> There is this myth that rail is underutilized for freight in the US.
>>> The fact is that more than 40 percent of US freight is moved by rail
>>> vs a little over 10 percent for the EU. About 45 percent of EU
>>> freight is moved by truck vs about 30 percent in the US.
>>
>> That others may do worse does not necessarily mean this is a myth. Perhaps 80
>> percent of freight could be moved by rail with a saving in fossil fuel use.
>
> Only 70 percent of it is moved by rail and truck now, so where would
> the other 10 percent come from? Would you take it out pipelines and
> load it onto trains or something?
>
>
In effect that's what the environmentalists want to do. While they were
fighting the pipelines more oil was being moved by rail. Remember what
happened to that small town in Canada a while ago. I think they never found
all the bodies. Thank god the pipelines got built.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360981 is a reply to message #360958] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 14:32 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 15:37:55 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>
>>>
>>> past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
>>> building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
>>> effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
>
> While it's true that the interstate highway system reasons
> for existance included military mobilization, it was not
> for tanks (which would be transported via flatbed truck or rail - tanks are
> not designed for long distance travel on their own), but
> rather the logistics tail and rapid mobilization.
>
> Note also that in areas of flyover country, certain
> portions of the interstate were planned to be emergency
> airfields in time of conflict.
This was mentioned on MythBusters, straight interstate sections were
there for fighter jet emergency landings... its a myth, not part of
the design.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #360984 is a reply to message #360951] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 14:50 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 7:39:03 AM UTC-7, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Dave Garland wrote:
>> And goods mostly
>> don't have to come from halfway around the world, either.
> You're kidding...I hope you're kidding.
It's true. They don't _have_ to come from halfway around the world in most
cases. We might not have silkworms, but we have plenty of people who could
assemble transistor radios or whatever.
It's just cheaper.
John Savard
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361007 is a reply to message #360036] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 02:42 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-01-17, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 1/17/2018 8:38 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>> Dave Garland wrote:
>>
>>> And goods mostly
>>> don't have to come from halfway around the world, either.
>>
>> You're kidding...I hope you're kidding.
>
> When you and I were growing up, they didn't. Therefore, they don't
> _have_to_. The fact that today they do isn't an indicator of
> necessity, but rather of company management that is more fixated on
> the stock price and their personal next bonus than on the well-being
> of the company, the workers, or the country.
Hence the Sears collapse. The top brass get 7-digit bonuses for
running the company into the ground - plus the lion's share of the
hundreds of millions of dollars in dividends paid out over the past
10 years, while the pension fund shriveled.
The one good thing that will hopefully come out of disasters such
as these is that people will never again trust these psychopaths.
(OK, I can have my fantasies, right?)
> And, true, our propensity to buy the absolute cheapest product we can get.
There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot
make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply, and the
people who consider price alone are this man's lawful prey.
-- John Ruskin
As the saying goes, God must love stupid people; He made so many of them.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361018 is a reply to message #360981] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 08:48 |
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Originally posted by: Juergen Nickelsen
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
> This was mentioned on MythBusters, straight interstate sections were
> there for fighter jet emergency landings... its a myth, not part of
> the design.
It is, for instance, here:
https://www.google.de/maps/@54.4300451,9.5963659,486m/data=! 3m1!1e3
There are a few places like this in the region where I grew up.
There are two slightly strange-looking parking spaces at the side of
a straight section of the highway, and between them, the median
strip is not covered by plants. The middle guard railing can be
removed in this section. All you need to have a small jet fighter
airport is some tool and gear trucks and a few hours of work.
This is not the US, but I'd be surprised if the idea didn't come
from there when they built their infrastructure here after WWII.
--
Love does not make the world go around, just up and down a bit.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361019 is a reply to message #360967] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 09:25 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
>
> re:
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#42 Predicting the future in five years
as seen from 1983
>
> part of the original interstate highway system justification was done
> for tanks ... US had observed that in WW2 that Germany had lots of
> advantage being able to (relatively) easily shifting forces from eastern
> and western fronts. In the 80s, realistically this justification had
> almost disappeared ... roads were being designed for lifetime ESALs by
> heavy trucks ... but US spent lots of money upgrading Germany's bridge
> weight limits to handle weight of Abrams M1 tanks (70 tons and growing).
> some recent posts mentioning Abrams
Since history is cyclic, we're going to discover this requirement.
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017b.html#14 Trump to sign cyber security order
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017c.html#42 Profitable Companies, No Taxes:
Here's How They Did It
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017d.html#13 The Pentagon still uses computer
software from 1958 to manage its contracts
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017e.html#1 How Desert Storm Destroyed the US
Military
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#14 Fast OODA-Loops increase
Maneuverability
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#31 Disregard post (another screwup;
absolutely nothing to do with computers whatsoever!)
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#40 Disregard post (another screwup;
absolutely nothing to do with computers whatsoever!)
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#74 On Tactics
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017j.html#2 WW II cryptography
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017j.html#73 A-10
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#12 Predicting the future in five years
as seen from 1983
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#14 Predicting the future in five years
as seen from 1983
>
> however since then, US also almost totally eliminated funding of
> maintenance of its own bridges (and other infrastructure) ... with lack
> of projects and jobs ... students stopped taking civil engineer courses
> and universities started cutting back univ. civil engineering programs.
> "Confidence Men: Wall Street, Washington, and the Education of a
> President", Volcker quote,
>
http://www.amazon.com/Confidence-Men-Washington-Education-eb ook/dp/B0089LOKKS
>
> pg290:
>
> Well, I said, 'The trouble with the United States recently is we spent
> several decades not producing many civil engineers and producing a
> huge number of financial engineers. And the result is s**tty bridges
> and a s**tty financial system!
When I was taking courses for an EE degree, a teacher said that getting
trained for civil engineering will guarantee a life-time of employment.
He said that he went to California for a couple of months and decided to
work for a while. He walked into some city hall and had a job in 10
minutes. My plumber did a similar thing. He "retired", bought a UV
and explored the US. He traded fixing faucets for dinners, etc.
>
> ... snip ...
>
> The previous administration had stimulus funds for infrastructure
> projects. From the laws of unintended consequences, from what stimulus
> funds that did make it into infrastructure projects (that didn't get
> skimmed/siphoned off) resulted in the projects having to hire Chinese
> firms in order to get civil engineers. Some recent posts about
> Volcker quote:
I'm surprised any of that money was put into any real projects.
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#17 Destruction of the Middle Class
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#26 Milton Friedman's Cherished Theory
Is Laid to Rest
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#72 [CM] What was your first home
computer?
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#79 [CM] What was your first home
computer?
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017g.html#47 The rise and fall of IBM
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017h.html#2 Trump is taking the wrong approach
to China on tech, says ex-Reagan official who helped beat Soviets
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017i.html#1 Any definitive reference for why
the PDP-11 was little-endian?
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017i.html#60 When Working From Home Doesn't
Work
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017j.html#61 What if the Kuomintang Had Won the
Chinese Civil War?
>
/BAH
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361021 is a reply to message #360958] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 09:25 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>
>>>
>>> past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
>>> building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
>>> effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
>
> While it's true that the interstate highway system reasons
> for existance included military mobilization, it was not
> for tanks (which would be transported via flatbed truck or rail - tanks are
> not designed for long distance travel on their own), but
> rather the logistics tail and rapid mobilization.
You are assuming that the fighting isn't in the US. I don't think
Eisenhower made that assumption.
>
> Note also that in areas of flyover country, certain
> portions of the interstate were planned to be emergency
> airfields in time of conflict.
They are used :-). Rt. 495 in Mass. had a few small planes land
when they were in trouble.
/BAH
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361022 is a reply to message #360981] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 09:25 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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JimP wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 15:37:55 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
>
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
>>>> building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
>>>> effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
>>
>> While it's true that the interstate highway system reasons
>> for existance included military mobilization, it was not
>> for tanks (which would be transported via flatbed truck or rail - tanks are
>> not designed for long distance travel on their own), but
>> rather the logistics tail and rapid mobilization.
>>
>> Note also that in areas of flyover country, certain
>> portions of the interstate were planned to be emergency
>> airfields in time of conflict.
>
> This was mentioned on MythBusters, straight interstate sections were
> there for fighter jet emergency landings... its a myth, not part of
> the design.
How did they prove it's a myth?
/BAH
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361024 is a reply to message #361021] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 09:40 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
>>>> building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
>>>> effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
>>
>> While it's true that the interstate highway system reasons
>> for existance included military mobilization, it was not
>> for tanks (which would be transported via flatbed truck or rail - tanks are
>> not designed for long distance travel on their own), but
>> rather the logistics tail and rapid mobilization.
>
> You are assuming that the fighting isn't in the US. I don't think
> Eisenhower made that assumption.
You're assuming something that I never assumed. The purpose
is to get the logistics tail to where it needs to be, domestic
or an appropriate port for embarcation.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361040 is a reply to message #361018] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 12:30 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:48:21 +0100, Juergen Nickelsen <ni@w21.org>
wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> This was mentioned on MythBusters, straight interstate sections were
>> there for fighter jet emergency landings... its a myth, not part of
>> the design.
>
> It is, for instance, here:
> https://www.goorgle.de/maps/@54.4300451,9.5963659,486m/data= !3m1!1e3
>
> There are a few places like this in the region where I grew up.
> There are two slightly strange-looking parking spaces at the side of
> a straight section of the highway, and between them, the median
> strip is not covered by plants. The middle guard railing can be
> removed in this section. All you need to have a small jet fighter
> airport is some tool and gear trucks and a few hours of work.
>
> This is not the US, but I'd be surprised if the idea didn't come
> from there when they built their infrastructure here after WWII.
Hmm... Interesting.
Looks like it could be used that way.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361041 is a reply to message #361021] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 12:31 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 18 Jan 2018 14:25:02 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
>>>> building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
>>>> effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
>>
>> While it's true that the interstate highway system reasons
>> for existance included military mobilization, it was not
>> for tanks (which would be transported via flatbed truck or rail - tanks are
>> not designed for long distance travel on their own), but
>> rather the logistics tail and rapid mobilization.
>
> You are assuming that the fighting isn't in the US. I don't think
> Eisenhower made that assumption.
>
>>
>> Note also that in areas of flyover country, certain
>> portions of the interstate were planned to be emergency
>> airfields in time of conflict.
>
> They are used :-). Rt. 495 in Mass. had a few small planes land
> when they were in trouble.
>
> /BAH
Piper Cubs and small Cessnas seem to like them as landing places.
But most fighter jets need a long runway, except for VTOL ones.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361042 is a reply to message #361022] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 12:32 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 18 Jan 2018 14:25:03 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> JimP wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 15:37:55 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > past posts that hiways are designed for 18wheeler axle-ton-mile (ESALs)
>>>> > building and maintenance lifetime ... and cars & light trucks have no
>>>> > effect (i.e. use/fuel taxes on cars are subsidizing heavy trucking)
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Actually the roads were originally designed for army tanks.
>>>
>>> While it's true that the interstate highway system reasons
>>> for existance included military mobilization, it was not
>>> for tanks (which would be transported via flatbed truck or rail - tanks are
>>> not designed for long distance travel on their own), but
>>> rather the logistics tail and rapid mobilization.
>>>
>>> Note also that in areas of flyover country, certain
>>> portions of the interstate were planned to be emergency
>>> airfields in time of conflict.
>>
>> This was mentioned on MythBusters, straight interstate sections were
>> there for fighter jet emergency landings... its a myth, not part of
>> the design.
>
> How did they prove it's a myth?
From what I remember, they asked someone that helped plan the
Interstate highway system. That person assured them the claim was a
myth.
Of course... the person may have felt they didn't have a need to know.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361049 is a reply to message #361041] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 13:51 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
> On 18 Jan 2018 14:25:02 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>> Note also that in areas of flyover country, certain
>>> portions of the interstate were planned to be emergency
>>> airfields in time of conflict.
>>
>> They are used :-). Rt. 495 in Mass. had a few small planes land
>> when they were in trouble.
>>
>> /BAH
>
> Piper Cubs and small Cessnas seem to like them as landing places.
>
> But most fighter jets need a long runway, except for VTOL ones.
There are four hundred flat, straight miles of interstate 80
in Iowa. Fighter doesn't need much, two miles is more than
enough for most military jets; overpasses are well over that
distance apart outside of the one major metropolitan region.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361058 is a reply to message #360832] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 14:23 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> Just after I posted this, it occurred to me that I should have
> said Massachusetts. There is no such thing as "going around
> the block" to correct for a wrong turn. I figured this out
> myself when I got lost the first week I was living in Mass.
> I tried to go around the block and, I suspect, I almost ended
> up in Rhode Island or Connecticut. When I finally got to
> the apartment, I took my clothes off and went to bed with
> the intention of never going outside again.
I periodically rant about this ... first time visiting the science
center (from the univ. ... coast-to-coast trip) ... got into logan late
evening, rented a car, headed for what is now called royal sonesta in
cambridge ... end of the science musuem bridge (vague memory it was
chart house?? back in the 60s) ... it was 3am in the morning when i
finally got to the hotel (i may have been almost to new hampshire).
supposedly auto gps and computer driving directions would now stop that
from happening
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361059 is a reply to message #361049] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 14:40 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2018-01-18, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 18 Jan 2018 14:25:02 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>>> Note also that in areas of flyover country, certain
>>>> portions of the interstate were planned to be emergency
>>>> airfields in time of conflict.
>>>
>>> They are used :-). Rt. 495 in Mass. had a few small planes land
>>> when they were in trouble.
>>>
>>> /BAH
>>
>> Piper Cubs and small Cessnas seem to like them as landing places.
>>
>> But most fighter jets need a long runway, except for VTOL ones.
>
> There are four hundred flat, straight miles of interstate 80
> in Iowa. Fighter doesn't need much, two miles is more than
> enough for most military jets; overpasses are well over that
> distance apart outside of the one major metropolitan region.
Other thing about WWII, Germany invades Soviet Union, the Soviet road
system dissolves under the then narrow-tracked German tanks, so it is
down to the partizan -threatened rail system. One source had it that
large numbers of Germans spent the war converting the railway east to
German guage during the advance, and blowing that system up during
the retreat. When the Red Army tanks got to the German motorways
coming West, that was it.
Story from Africa:
Some fellow dictator rings General Mobotu to ask for advice,
"The mob is coming up the road from the city to kill me. What will I
do?"
"You built a road from the City?.. That was your first mistake."
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361060 is a reply to message #361059] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 15:27 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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mausg@mail.com writes:
> Other thing about WWII, Germany invades Soviet Union, the Soviet road
> system dissolves under the then narrow-tracked German tanks, so it is
> down to the partizan -threatened rail system. One source had it that
> large numbers of Germans spent the war converting the railway east to
> German guage during the advance, and blowing that system up during
> the retreat. When the Red Army tanks got to the German motorways
> coming West, that was it.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#45 1963 Timesharing: A Solution to Computer Bottlenecks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#47 1963 Timesharing: A Solution to Computer Bottlenecks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#48 1963 Timesharing: A Solution to Computer Bottlenecks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#49 1963 Timesharing: A Solution to Computer Bottlenecks
Invasion of the Soviet Union, 1941
https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-II/Invasion-of-th e-Soviet-Union-1941
By mid-July, moreover, a series of rainstorms were turning the sandy
Russian roads into clogging mud, over which the wheeled vehicles of the
German transport behind the tanks could make only very slow
progress. The Germans also began to be hampered by the scorched earth
policy adopted by the retreating Soviets. The Soviet troops burned
crops, destroyed bridges, and evacuated factories in the face of the
German advance. Entire steel and munitions plants in the westernmost
portions of the U.S.S.R. were dismantled and shipped by rail to the
east, where they were put back into production. The Soviets also
destroyed or evacuated most of their rolling stock (railroad cars), thus
depriving the Germans of the use of the Soviet rail system, since Soviet
railroad track was of a different gauge than German track and German
rolling stock was consequently useless on it.
.... snip ...
operation barbarossa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa
The failure of Operation Barbarossa proved a turning point in the
fortunes of the Third Reich.[24] Most importantly, the operation opened
up the Eastern Front, in which more forces were committed than in any
other theater of war in world history. The Eastern Front became the site
of some of the largest battles, most horrific atrocities, and highest
casualties for Soviet and Axis units alike, all of which influenced the
course of both World War II and the subsequent history of the 20th
century.
.... snip ...
aka ... soviets dealing with 3/4s of german military.
also from wiki:
Beginning in March 1941, Goering's Green Folder laid out details for the
disposal of the Soviet economy after conquest. The Hunger Plan outlined
how the entire urban population of conquered territories was to be
starved to death, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany
and urban space for the German upper class
.... snip ...
Note that this account about Churchill doing something similar regarding
India.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
http://www.amazon.com/Churchills-Secret-War-British-Ravaging -ebook/dp/
a few posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#16 Keydriven bit permutations
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#35 Deny the British empire's crimes? No, we ignore them
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#62 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016f.html#23 Frieden calculator
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016h.html#89 "I used a real computer at home...and so will you" (Popular Science May 1967)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#18 5 Naval Battles That Changed History Forever
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017k.html#14 India's British Army: the Honorable East India Company's Lasting Military Impact
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018.html#16 Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983
and English had done something similar during Irish Famine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Irish_food_exports_during_Famine
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361065 is a reply to message #360391] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 16:09 |
Alan Bowler
Messages: 185
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-01-10 1:47 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> Precisely, it's not a question of whether or not people smoke pot,
> it's a question of who gets their money, organised crime or government. The
> big difference being that organised crime doesn't lock people up for
> dealing with the government.
Instead they break legs for buying from the wrong dealer, and
shoot buystanders in turf wars.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361067 is a reply to message #361007] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 16:58 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-01-17, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/17/2018 8:38 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Garland wrote:
>>>
>>>> And goods mostly
>>>> don't have to come from halfway around the world, either.
>>>
>>> You're kidding...I hope you're kidding.
>>
>> When you and I were growing up, they didn't. Therefore, they don't
>> _have_to_. The fact that today they do isn't an indicator of
>> necessity, but rather of company management that is more fixated on
>> the stock price and their personal next bonus than on the well-being
>> of the company, the workers, or the country.
>
> Hence the Sears collapse. The top brass get 7-digit bonuses for
> running the company into the ground - plus the lion's share of the
> hundreds of millions of dollars in dividends paid out over the past
> 10 years, while the pension fund shriveled.
Actually, I read that now Sears is privately owned, and the owner is
pumping a lot of his personal money into it. I think it's loans, which he
will probably not get back if they go belly-up.
>
> The one good thing that will hopefully come out of disasters such
> as these is that people will never again trust these psychopaths.
> (OK, I can have my fantasies, right?)
>
>> And, true, our propensity to buy the absolute cheapest product we can get.
>
> There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot
> make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply, and the
> people who consider price alone are this man's lawful prey.
> -- John Ruskin
>
> As the saying goes, God must love stupid people; He made so many of them.
>
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361068 is a reply to message #361018] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 16:58 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Juergen Nickelsen <ni@w21.org> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> This was mentioned on MythBusters, straight interstate sections were
>> there for fighter jet emergency landings... its a myth, not part of
>> the design.
>
> It is, for instance, here:
> https://www.google.de/maps/@54.4300451,9.5963659,486m/data=! 3m1!1e3
>
> There are a few places like this in the region where I grew up.
> There are two slightly strange-looking parking spaces at the side of
> a straight section of the highway, and between them, the median
> strip is not covered by plants. The middle guard railing can be
> removed in this section. All you need to have a small jet fighter
> airport is some tool and gear trucks and a few hours of work.
>
> This is not the US, but I'd be surprised if the idea didn't come
> from there when they built their infrastructure here after WWII.
>
Sounds like you may be in Scandinavia, perhaps Norway? You guys have been
preparing for a Russian invasion since the war.
--
Pete
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361071 is a reply to message #361065] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 16:34 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:09:39 -0500
Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-01-10 1:47 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>> Precisely, it's not a question of whether or not people smoke
>> pot, it's a question of who gets their money, organised crime or
>> government. The big difference being that organised crime doesn't lock
>> people up for dealing with the government.
>
> Instead they break legs for buying from the wrong dealer, and
> shoot buystanders in turf wars.
You seem to have a more violent variety than we do, please don't
export it.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361079 is a reply to message #360934] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 17:40 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 12:11:04 AM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> Oh, well, then just 60 percent instead of 40. Maybe even that is too high, since
> clearly trains wouldn't be used for moving things around inside a single city.
Years ago, trains were used for intra-city freight hauling, but
now trucks handle that.
In NYC, there was a trunk line down the west side of Manhattan. This
was abandoned in the 1980s and since built into a popular park.
It seemed to me that such a line would still be useful to deliver
freight and get trucks off the streets, but apparently it was not
economic to do so. I think the line served more "heavy" industries
as opposed to, say, retail goods for delivery to stores.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361080 is a reply to message #361007] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 17:45 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 2:43:01 AM UTC-5, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> When you and I were growing up, they didn't. Therefore, they don't
>> _have_to_. The fact that today they do isn't an indicator of
>> necessity, but rather of company management that is more fixated on
>> the stock price and their personal next bonus than on the well-being
>> of the company, the workers, or the country.
>
> Hence the Sears collapse. The top brass get 7-digit bonuses for
> running the company into the ground - plus the lion's share of the
> hundreds of millions of dollars in dividends paid out over the past
> 10 years, while the pension fund shriveled.
The kicker was that Sears once had the infrastructure to support
a massive mail order business, and today, mail order (via the
Internet) is the big thing. In my city, a huge Sears distribution
center was demolished. Big employer--girls worked in the clerical
side, and boys in the warehouse.
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| Re: Predicting the future in five years as seen from 1983 [message #361090 is a reply to message #361067] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 20:07 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Actually, I read that now Sears is privately owned, and the owner is
> pumping a lot of his personal money into it. I think it's loans, which
> he will probably not get back if they go belly-up.
Sears Canada executive in talks with private equity for deal: Reuters
https://www.pehub.com/canada/2017/9/sears-canada-executive-i n-talks-with-private-equity-for-deal-reuters/
Sears Canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Canada
On October 10, 2017, Sears Canada announced it would seek court approval
to shut down all of its remaining stores in Canada and layoff of 11,240
remaining staff.[12] This was granted by the Ontario Superior Court on
October 13, 2017.[13]
Liquidation sales began on October 19, 2017. The remaining Sears stores
closed on January 14, 2018. Store fixtures and equipment are up for sale
in the closed stores.[14][15]
.... snip ...
Sears Holdings Corporation stock
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHLD/
Sears Holdings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Holdings
Why doesn't Lampert take Sears private?
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20170616/ISSUE10/1706 19921/why-doesnt-lampert-take-sears-private
The hedge fund mogul who controls Sears insists the beleaguered retailer
has a bright future, even as persistent sales declines and operating
losses force him to close stores and sell off assets. Earlier this year,
he said Sears has "what it takes to move us forward." But investors
aren't listening. Sears shares have dropped 24 percent this year to
under $7 apiece, near an all-time low of $5.50, set in February, and
down 96 percent from their peak value of $195.12 a decade ago.
.... snip ...
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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