| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354762 is a reply to message #354475] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 14:07   |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
(Re. Chemical Rubber Company's "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics")
> Our first-year physics prof arranged a group purchase
> for those who were interested. I still have mine.
My highchool physics teacher did that so I still have my 1958-59 "40th
Edition". It's old enough that it still provided the composition of
"fusible teaspoon" alloy [1] that will allegedly melt in hot
tea/coffee (although no explicit MP is given.) Later removed because,
AIUI, of the risk that foolish people would poison one another or
themselves.
> Between that and the Merck Index, what more could you want?
Korn & Korn? ;-)
Given today's USAian poltical situation, the DSM IV (or V) might also
be desirable.
[1] 45 Bi, 17 Sn, 30 Pb, 5-10 Hg
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354768 is a reply to message #354761] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 15:04 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
> Thunderbird/45.8.0
> In-Reply-To: <osanbj1i2f@news4.newsguy.com>
> X-Received-Body-CRC: 732300507
> X-Received-Bytes: 2863
>
> On 10/19/2017 12:28 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I believe it was relatively recently (last 15 years or so?) that
>>> IBM added square root as a hardware function to the S/360 series.
>>> Seems like something that should've been included at the onset.
>> It's easy to forget just how expensive hardware was back in those days.
>> The extra circuitry needed to implement a square root instruction would
>> have been so expensive (not to mention bulky) that it wasn't even
>> considered. Heck, if you were feeling cheap you could buy a Univac
>> 9300 without the multiply, divide, and edit instructions (MP, DP,
>> and ED, EDMK wasn't supported at all), and link subroutines to your
>> program that did the work in software. Mind you, if you were that
>> cheap you might only have 8K of memory and not have room for the
>> subroutines...
>>
>
> I didn't realize that anyone sold, in that era, anything with that
> little memory. Is this the record for for small memory? Say after the
> initial "invention" period, 1958 or beyond.
There were a lot of 4kw PDP-8's sold.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354772 is a reply to message #354740] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 18:02 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 19 Oct 2017 12:53:21 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On 18 Oct 2017 14:06:44 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Although MS might have rewritten things heavily. Like what was already
>>>> mentioned that COMMAND.COM is way different from PIP.
>>>
>>> MS seemed to just rename the program name; their EDLIN was really
>>> DEC's LINED.
>>
>> Isn't this editor not just called "ed" in CP/M?
>
> I don't know. I've never used CP/M.
I can confirm that the CP/M for the Kaypro II has ed as editor option. I
just ran it in an emulator. Unfortunately it seems to let me not take a
screenshot of the directory listing and the started editor.
Btw. I never used CP/M until may be two years ago. My first computer "OS"
was in the Commodore 64, then the Amiga, then Windows 95. But reading
about CP/M made me interested in that. So I also ran some Z80 machines,
running CP/M themselves in an emulator (M.A.M.E.).
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
your car has never had a full tank of gas.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354773 is a reply to message #354758] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 18:15 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 19 Oct 2017 17:28:20 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
>> (While, IMHO, we still use punched cards for all data processing,
>> I must admit I don't regret losing all those trees to become cards
>> or green bar paper. Tab machines and computers ate a lot of paper
>> in the old days. I don't think anyone was every troubled by that.)
>
> Nowadays it's cheap laser and inkjet printers that eat a lot of paper.
> People still aren't troubled by this.
Prices are down for paper, and about anything concerning computers. In
the 70s you could buy a small sized car for what you paid for a
micro. Before even more (although "micros" didn't really exist yet).
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
your car has never had a full tank of gas.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354778 is a reply to message #354534] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 18:43 |
|
|
Originally posted by: JimP
On 16 Oct 2017 18:20:02 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>
>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> computers and software.
>>>
>>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>
>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>> vital kinds of software design.
>
> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
I used coding sheets to code in Apple ][+ Cobol. Yeah, I know.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354780 is a reply to message #354656] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 21:48 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 18 Oct 2017 07:10:19 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2017-10-18, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> On 17 Oct 2017 14:07:11 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> I had a blackboard. I hated whiteboards because one got an alcohol
>>> high without the taste of beer.
>>
>> I knew a prof who liked chalkboards. He also wore black. He
>> usually had chalk dust on his clothes.
>>
>> I prefer whiteboards, but I want all of it. At uni, I would
>> sometimes fill up about 16'X4' of whiteboard with math stuff. It
>> freaked people out -- "Is that homework?" -- but I did it to relax.
>
> In junior high I had a math teacher who showed me how to calculate
> square roots using a process similar to long division. I filled a
> whiteboard in a spare room with a calculation of the square root of
> 10 to at least a dozen decimal places.
>
> Well, if you're going to be a nerd, you might as well play it up...
Similarly, I calculated the square root of 2 to fifteen decimal
places: 1.414213562373095.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354849 is a reply to message #354707] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 08:20 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 3:11:25 AM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> In junior high I had a math teacher who showed me how to calculate
>> square roots using a process similar to long division. I filled a
>> whiteboard in a spare room with a calculation of the square root of
>> 10 to at least a dozen decimal places.
>> Well, if you're going to be a nerd, you might as well play it up...
>
> We learned that, and it was on the test. IIRC, it was a PITA.
> However, once we learned it, I don't think we ever used it the hand
> method again. We either used our slide rule or a table in a book.
> (Our math and science textbooks had various function tables in
> the back. The teachers had collections of books just filled with
> various function tables. We also learned "interpolation" and did
> use that frequently for table lookups.)
>
> I believe it was relatively recently (last 15 years or so?) that
> IBM added square root as a hardware function to the S/360 series.
> Seems like something that should've been included at the onset.
>
Certainly too much hardware for the early days.
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354850 is a reply to message #354724] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 08:20 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 18 Oct 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:
>
>> books just filled with various function tables.
>
> Chemical Rubber Company (CRC)'s "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics",
> among others. I went to college with a copy. I see that math tables are
> now in Appendix A instead of Section 1.
>
I really wanted a copy in college but it cost too much for me at the time.
Several years agoI picked up a copy in a garage sale for $1, but I don't
think I've used it much. I use the formulae more than the tables, it's too
easy to use a calculator or app.
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354852 is a reply to message #354758] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 08:20 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 4:15:21 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> I used to carry a few used IBM cards around to take notes on, or use as
>>> bookmarks.
>>
>> Lots of people did that when punched cards were used.
>>
>> I know a fellow who took home a few boxes of blank cards from his
>> employer upon his retirement. To this day he uses them for note
>> cards. Fits in a shirt pocket.
>>
>> (While, IMHO, we still use punched cards for all data processing,
>> I must admit I don't regret losing all those trees to become cards
>> or green bar paper. Tab machines and computers ate a lot of paper
>> in the old days. I don't think anyone was every troubled by that.)
>
> Nowadays it's cheap laser and inkjet printers that eat a lot of paper.
> People still aren't troubled by this.
>
I am. Wife prints a web page and discovers it's 20 pages of printout with
all the ads and comments included. I almost never print a web page directly
unless it has a "printable page" function, but I wind up wasting a lot of
time pasting the page into Libre Office and deleting all the cruft to
print what I want.
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354853 is a reply to message #354749] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 09:56 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 10/18/2017 9:12 PM, Joe Makowiec wrote:
>> On 18 Oct 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:
>>
>>> books just filled with various function tables.
>>
>> Chemical Rubber Company (CRC)'s "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics",
>> among others. I went to college with a copy. I see that math tables are
>> now in Appendix A instead of Section 1.
>>
>
> ISTM that the physics and chemistry handbook had a rather large table of
> integrals. Chemical Rubber Company also publishes a Mathematics
> Handbook with lots of formulas and tables.
>
> ttp://tinyurl.com/y9uampwf
>
I was given a Math Handbook as a prize when I was a senior in
high school.
/BAH
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354854 is a reply to message #354772] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 09:56 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On 19 Oct 2017 12:53:21 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On 18 Oct 2017 14:06:44 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Although MS might have rewritten things heavily. Like what was already
>>>> > mentioned that COMMAND.COM is way different from PIP.
>>>>
>>>> MS seemed to just rename the program name; their EDLIN was really
>>>> DEC's LINED.
>>>
>>> Isn't this editor not just called "ed" in CP/M?
>>
>> I don't know. I've never used CP/M.
>
> I can confirm that the CP/M for the Kaypro II has ed as editor option. I
> just ran it in an emulator. Unfortunately it seems to let me not take a
> screenshot of the directory listing and the started editor.
>
> Btw. I never used CP/M until may be two years ago. My first computer "OS"
> was in the Commodore 64, then the Amiga, then Windows 95. But reading
> about CP/M made me interested in that. So I also ran some Z80 machines,
> running CP/M themselves in an emulator (M.A.M.E.).
the command might be ED but is it a copy of the LINED functionality?
That was the question I was answering. Sorry for my confusion.
/BAH
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354855 is a reply to message #354852] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 11:35 |
Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 4:15:21 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>>> I used to carry a few used IBM cards around to take notes on, or use as
>>>> bookmarks.
>>>
>>> Lots of people did that when punched cards were used.
>>>
>>> I know a fellow who took home a few boxes of blank cards from his
>>> employer upon his retirement. To this day he uses them for note
>>> cards. Fits in a shirt pocket.
>>>
>>> (While, IMHO, we still use punched cards for all data processing,
>>> I must admit I don't regret losing all those trees to become cards
>>> or green bar paper. Tab machines and computers ate a lot of paper
>>> in the old days. I don't think anyone was every troubled by that.)
>>
>> Nowadays it's cheap laser and inkjet printers that eat a lot of paper.
>> People still aren't troubled by this.
>>
>
> I am. Wife prints a web page and discovers it's 20 pages of printout with
> all the ads and comments included. I almost never print a web page directly
> unless it has a "printable page" function, but I wind up wasting a lot of
> time pasting the page into Libre Office and deleting all the cruft to
> print what I want.
As long as I'm careful to only print the relevant pages it's OK.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354856 is a reply to message #354724] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 17:04 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 10:12:33 PM UTC-4, Joe Makowiec wrote:
> On 18 Oct 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:
>
>> books just filled with various function tables.
>
> Chemical Rubber Company (CRC)'s "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics",
> among others. I went to college with a copy. I see that math tables are
> now in Appendix A instead of Section 1.
I'm surprised they're still publishing math tables, given how calculators
and computers have them easily available.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354857 is a reply to message #354761] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 17:06 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 1:58:48 PM UTC-4, Osmium wrote:
> On 10/19/2017 12:28 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4 wrote:
>>
>>> I believe it was relatively recently (last 15 years or so?) that
>>> IBM added square root as a hardware function to the S/360 series.
>>> Seems like something that should've been included at the onset.
>> It's easy to forget just how expensive hardware was back in those days.
>> The extra circuitry needed to implement a square root instruction would
>> have been so expensive (not to mention bulky) that it wasn't even
>> considered. Heck, if you were feeling cheap you could buy a Univac
>> 9300 without the multiply, divide, and edit instructions (MP, DP,
>> and ED, EDMK wasn't supported at all), and link subroutines to your
>> program that did the work in software. Mind you, if you were that
>> cheap you might only have 8K of memory and not have room for the
>> subroutines...
>>
>
> I didn't realize that anyone sold, in that era, anything with that
> little memory. Is this the record for for small memory? Say after the
> initial "invention" period, 1958 or beyond.
The IBM 1401, which came out in 1960, could be had with as little
as 1.4k (1,400 characters). As I understand it, plenty of customers
bought that size, using it essentially as a glorified tabulator.
I believe the initial offering of S/360 model 30 was only 8k, but
later raised to 16k.
>
> Univac made a 422 training computer with 512 15-bit words, but it was
> not intended to actually *be* a computer, rather to illustrate the
> principles. IIRC, the purchase price was around $44,000. It included a
> typewriter and paper tape for I/O, it sat on a (user supplied) table.
> This was about 1965.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354859 is a reply to message #354857] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 19:36 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 1:58:48 PM UTC-4, Osmium wrote:
>> On 10/19/2017 12:28 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I believe it was relatively recently (last 15 years or so?) that
>>>> IBM added square root as a hardware function to the S/360 series.
>>>> Seems like something that should've been included at the onset.
>>> It's easy to forget just how expensive hardware was back in those days.
>>> The extra circuitry needed to implement a square root instruction would
>>> have been so expensive (not to mention bulky) that it wasn't even
>>> considered. Heck, if you were feeling cheap you could buy a Univac
>>> 9300 without the multiply, divide, and edit instructions (MP, DP,
>>> and ED, EDMK wasn't supported at all), and link subroutines to your
>>> program that did the work in software. Mind you, if you were that
>>> cheap you might only have 8K of memory and not have room for the
>>> subroutines...
>>>
>>
>> I didn't realize that anyone sold, in that era, anything with that
>> little memory. Is this the record for for small memory? Say after the
>> initial "invention" period, 1958 or beyond.
>
> The IBM 1401, which came out in 1960, could be had with as little
> as 1.4k (1,400 characters). As I understand it, plenty of customers
> bought that size, using it essentially as a glorified tabulator.
I worked on a 1.4K 1401.
No tape, no disk.
No freakin index registers but at that point I'd stop using index
registers.
It made for a better shop than one filled with EAM equipment and
the 1403 printer could produce nice looking reports.
> I believe the initial offering of S/360 model 30 was only 8k, but
> later raised to 16k.
You needed more for COBOL. There was a small enough compiler for
16K but writing COBOL code that fit in 16K wasn't easy.
I saw one 32K model 30 soon upgraded to 64K.
Most places after that I saw 64K and beyond with non-IBM
storage.
>> This was about 1965.
First programmer job, 1964.
--
Dan Espen
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354860 is a reply to message #354856] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 19:39 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 10/20/2017 4:04 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 10:12:33 PM UTC-4, Joe Makowiec wrote:
>> On 18 Oct 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:
>>
>>> books just filled with various function tables.
>>
>> Chemical Rubber Company (CRC)'s "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics",
>> among others. I went to college with a copy. I see that math tables are
>> now in Appendix A instead of Section 1.
>
> I'm surprised they're still publishing math tables, given how calculators
> and computers have them easily available.
>
It's *not* just the tables of sine/cosine, logarithms, square roots, and
cube roots. There are tables of LaPlace Transforms and Inverse LaPlace
transforms. There are tables of integrals and tables of Fourier sine
and cosine transforms. You will *not* find these on your typical
scientific calculator.
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354861 is a reply to message #354761] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 21:26 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 10/19/2017 12:28 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I believe it was relatively recently (last 15 years or so?) that
>>> IBM added square root as a hardware function to the S/360 series.
>>> Seems like something that should've been included at the onset.
>> It's easy to forget just how expensive hardware was back in those days.
>> The extra circuitry needed to implement a square root instruction would
>> have been so expensive (not to mention bulky) that it wasn't even
>> considered. Heck, if you were feeling cheap you could buy a Univac
>> 9300 without the multiply, divide, and edit instructions (MP, DP,
>> and ED, EDMK wasn't supported at all), and link subroutines to your
>> program that did the work in software. Mind you, if you were that
>> cheap you might only have 8K of memory and not have room for the
>> subroutines...
>>
>
> I didn't realize that anyone sold, in that era, anything with that
> little memory. Is this the record for for small memory? Say after the
> initial "invention" period, 1958 or beyond.
>
> Univac made a 422 training computer with 512 15-bit words, but it was
> not intended to actually *be* a computer, rather to illustrate the
> principles. IIRC, the purchase price was around $44,000. It included a
> typewriter and paper tape for I/O, it sat on a (user supplied) table.
> This was about 1965.
>
>
I think you could get 4K machines, but their use would have been pretty
limited.
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354863 is a reply to message #354475] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 04:42 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:20:28 -0400, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> I am. Wife prints a web page and discovers it's 20 pages of printout with
>> all the ads and comments included. I almost never print a web page directly
>> unless it has a "printable page" function, but I wind up wasting a lot of
>> time pasting the page into Libre Office and deleting all the cruft to
>> print what I want.
>
> Having no printer I went to a print shop (more a shipping Office for
> Purulator and stuff with some computers acting as internet cafe. One had
> a printer and I wanted to print one page of 20. Not familiar with Windows
> I probably right clicked the print button, expecting a context menu like
> in Linux. But it started to print right away. All 20 pages. I asked the
> girl behind the counter to stop it but she refused (bit**!). Was really
> angry so hard turned off the computer. Which upset her. *g*
>
> It printed 8 pages I had to pay for (I think it was $.5 per page).
Sympathy. Print shops here, as well, are expensive. On my system,
still, and likely to remain, Slackware, there is a command line
option of printing page x->x+ , on XWindows this is under "options" on
most utilities. `Print' will print all. We had a wondreful print shop
in a local town, with a knowledgable staff, it closed, now all we
have is a "Hey, you are unemployable, you can work here", windows
based place.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354864 is a reply to message #354475] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 04:47 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 20 Oct 2017 13:56:41 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>
>>> Btw. I never used CP/M until may be two years ago. My first computer "OS"
>>> was in the Commodore 64, then the Amiga, then Windows 95. But reading
>>> about CP/M made me interested in that. So I also ran some Z80 machines,
>>> running CP/M themselves in an emulator (M.A.M.E.).
>>
>> the command might be ED but is it a copy of the LINED functionality?
>> That was the question I was answering. Sorry for my confusion.
>
> I never came across LINED so cannot tell.
>
> So far I ran CP/M only on a Kaypro II and various Osbornes - all
> emulated. There was just ED. But I also got myself WordStar. ED is a real PITA.
I forget the name of the resident text editor on the amiga, Cygnused
rapidly took over, but there was two, at least, CP/M type thingies,
and of which had a lot of `vi' (commands, whatever) such as pressing
`5' and 'p' and repeating lines. Suddenly, the world was a bigger
place
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354865 is a reply to message #354856] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 04:51 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 2017-10-20, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 10:12:33 PM UTC-4, Joe Makowiec wrote:
>> On 18 Oct 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:
>>
>>> books just filled with various function tables.
>>
>> Chemical Rubber Company (CRC)'s "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics",
>> among others. I went to college with a copy. I see that math tables are
>> now in Appendix A instead of Section 1.
>
> I'm surprised they're still publishing math tables, given how calculators
> and computers have them easily available.
I still have a book of tables that I discovered in my pocket after
visiting an engineering workshop. It is still out in the workshop,
near the lathe and drill. There are other handbooks which are
extremely handy, I will look up the name later, but it has tables,
like one making the equivelence between tempratures under Raumur and
Celcius.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354866 is a reply to message #354864] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 05:52 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:47:14 +0000, mausg wrote:
> On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On 20 Oct 2017 13:56:41 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Btw. I never used CP/M until may be two years ago. My first computer
>>>> "OS"
>>>> was in the Commodore 64, then the Amiga, then Windows 95. But reading
>>>> about CP/M made me interested in that. So I also ran some Z80
>>>> machines, running CP/M themselves in an emulator (M.A.M.E.).
>>>
>>> the command might be ED but is it a copy of the LINED functionality?
>>> That was the question I was answering. Sorry for my confusion.
>>
>> I never came across LINED so cannot tell.
>>
>> So far I ran CP/M only on a Kaypro II and various Osbornes - all
>> emulated. There was just ED. But I also got myself WordStar. ED is a
>> real PITA.
>
>
> I forget the name of the resident text editor on the amiga, Cygnused
> rapidly took over, but there was two, at least, CP/M type thingies, and
> of which had a lot of `vi' (commands, whatever) such as pressing `5' and
> 'p' and repeating lines. Suddenly, the world was a bigger place
What amazed me was the BBC microcomputer. At work, I installed an
assembler ROM into mine so that I could modify the Kermit for it.
The ROM came with a 6502 assembler, and an editor. I was overjoyed top
discover no learning curve - it was TECO.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354867 is a reply to message #354860] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 05:57 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 18:39:33 -0500, Charles Richmond
<numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 10/20/2017 4:04 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 10:12:33 PM UTC-4, Joe Makowiec wrote:
>>> On 18 Oct 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:
>>>
>>>> books just filled with various function tables.
>>>
>>> Chemical Rubber Company (CRC)'s "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics",
>>> among others. I went to college with a copy. I see that math tables are
>>> now in Appendix A instead of Section 1.
>>
>> I'm surprised they're still publishing math tables, given how calculators
>> and computers have them easily available.
>>
>
> It's *not* just the tables of sine/cosine, logarithms, square roots, and
> cube roots. There are tables of LaPlace Transforms and Inverse LaPlace
> transforms. There are tables of integrals and tables of Fourier sine
> and cosine transforms. You will *not* find these on your typical
> scientific calculator.
I don't know if you're aware of it, but the upper end of the TI and HP
ranges do symbolic math including integration and differentiation, and
Mathematic will handle just about anything in the way of symbolic
math.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354868 is a reply to message #354475] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 06:35 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:20:28 -0400, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> I am. Wife prints a web page and discovers it's 20 pages of printout with
>> all the ads and comments included. I almost never print a web page directly
>> unless it has a "printable page" function, but I wind up wasting a lot of
>> time pasting the page into Libre Office and deleting all the cruft to
>> print what I want.
>
> Having no printer I went to a print shop (more a shipping Office for
> Purulator and stuff with some computers acting as internet cafe. One had
> a printer and I wanted to print one page of 20. Not familiar with Windows
> I probably right clicked the print button, expecting a context menu like
> in Linux. But it started to print right away. All 20 pages. I asked the
> girl behind the counter to stop it but she refused (bit**!). Was really
> angry so hard turned off the computer. Which upset her. *g*
>
> It printed 8 pages I had to pay for (I think it was $.5 per page).
Many web "pages" aren't paginated, they just run on and on. Also many
printers are buffered so that turning off the computer solves nothing.
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354869 is a reply to message #354866] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 09:38 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bob Eager wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:47:14 +0000, mausg wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On 20 Oct 2017 13:56:41 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Btw. I never used CP/M until may be two years ago. My first computer
>>>> > "OS"
>>>> > was in the Commodore 64, then the Amiga, then Windows 95. But reading
>>>> > about CP/M made me interested in that. So I also ran some Z80
>>>> > machines, running CP/M themselves in an emulator (M.A.M.E.).
>>>>
>>>> the command might be ED but is it a copy of the LINED functionality?
>>>> That was the question I was answering. Sorry for my confusion.
>>>
>>> I never came across LINED so cannot tell.
>>>
>>> So far I ran CP/M only on a Kaypro II and various Osbornes - all
>>> emulated. There was just ED. But I also got myself WordStar. ED is a
>>> real PITA.
>>
>>
>> I forget the name of the resident text editor on the amiga, Cygnused
>> rapidly took over, but there was two, at least, CP/M type thingies, and
>> of which had a lot of `vi' (commands, whatever) such as pressing `5' and
>> 'p' and repeating lines. Suddenly, the world was a bigger place
>
> What amazed me was the BBC microcomputer. At work, I installed an
> assembler ROM into mine so that I could modify the Kermit for it.
>
> The ROM came with a 6502 assembler, and an editor. I was overjoyed top
> discover no learning curve - it was TECO.
TECO was my first editor. On TOPS-10, type ahead was allowed so my
editing could fly way ahead of the printing of the last edit which
usually ended with -2T2T$$. Then somebody decided that TECO
was slowing down the system and Tape Prep was told to use SOS.
What a fuckinng PITA. I had to wait for the entire line to type
out before going on to the next line to edit, which had to type
out before I could edit that one. It slowed my editing time
by >75%. Then the guy who made the edict wanted me to do an
edit. I told him it would take a week if I had to use SOSX
but would take a day if I could use TECO. The edict faded away.
Some of the gals liked SOSX so they used that. I hated it so
I used TECO. My usual edits never expanded beyond 2K because
just about everything had a page-sized form feed. I never
understood how the person who did the study came to the
conclusion that TECO was the culprit which bogged down the system.
/BAH
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354870 is a reply to message #354869] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 13:14 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 13:38:11 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Bob Eager wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:47:14 +0000, mausg wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> On 20 Oct 2017 13:56:41 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Btw. I never used CP/M until may be two years ago. My first
>>>> >> computer "OS"
>>>> >> was in the Commodore 64, then the Amiga, then Windows 95. But
>>>> >> reading about CP/M made me interested in that. So I also ran some
>>>> >> Z80 machines, running CP/M themselves in an emulator (M.A.M.E.).
>>>> >
>>>> > the command might be ED but is it a copy of the LINED functionality?
>>>> > That was the question I was answering. Sorry for my confusion.
>>>>
>>>> I never came across LINED so cannot tell.
>>>>
>>>> So far I ran CP/M only on a Kaypro II and various Osbornes - all
>>>> emulated. There was just ED. But I also got myself WordStar. ED is a
>>>> real PITA.
>>>
>>>
>>> I forget the name of the resident text editor on the amiga, Cygnused
>>> rapidly took over, but there was two, at least, CP/M type thingies,
>>> and of which had a lot of `vi' (commands, whatever) such as pressing
>>> `5' and 'p' and repeating lines. Suddenly, the world was a bigger
>>> place
>>
>> What amazed me was the BBC microcomputer. At work, I installed an
>> assembler ROM into mine so that I could modify the Kermit for it.
>>
>> The ROM came with a 6502 assembler, and an editor. I was overjoyed top
>> discover no learning curve - it was TECO.
>
> TECO was my first editor. On TOPS-10, type ahead was allowed so my
> editing could fly way ahead of the printing of the last edit which
> usually ended with -2T2T$$. Then somebody decided that TECO was
> slowing down the system and Tape Prep was told to use SOS. What a
> fuckinng PITA. I had to wait for the entire line to type out before
> going on to the next line to edit, which had to type out before I could
> edit that one. It slowed my editing time by >75%. Then the guy who
> made the edict wanted me to do an edit. I told him it would take a week
> if I had to use SOSX but would take a day if I could use TECO. The
> edict faded away. Some of the gals liked SOSX so they used that. I
> hated it so I used TECO. My usual edits never expanded beyond 2K
> because just about everything had a page-sized form feed. I never
> understood how the person who did the study came to the conclusion that
> TECO was the culprit which bogged down the system.
It probably did have an effect. TECO needed an interrupt after every
character, instead of after every line.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354871 is a reply to message #354859] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 15:17 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Friday, October 20, 2017 at 7:36:31 PM UTC-4, Dan Espen wrote:
> It made for a better shop than one filled with EAM equipment and
> the 1403 printer could produce nice looking reports.
The Campbell-Kelly history says the 1401 sold very well because
of its high quality and fast 1403 printer.
It always amazed me the crappy 'wavy' output that other
computer manufacturers offered on their printers.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354872 is a reply to message #354864] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 15:18 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 4:47:15 AM UTC-4, ma...@mail.com wrote:
> I forget the name of the resident text editor on the amiga, Cygnused
> rapidly took over, but there was two, at least, CP/M type thingies,
> and of which had a lot of `vi' (commands, whatever) such as pressing
> `5' and 'p' and repeating lines. Suddenly, the world was a bigger
> place
MS-DOS 5.0 brought out a new text editor, combined with QBASIC.
Very nice.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354873 is a reply to message #354868] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 15:22 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 6:35:58 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
> Many web "pages" aren't paginated, they just run on and on. Also many
> printers are buffered so that turning off the computer solves nothing.
Yes. It seems (to me at least) that people don't print as much
as they used to.
For instance, many transit agencies post their service schedules,
but few are in 8.5" x 11" size. Accordingly, they're hard to print.
Some agencies offer a printer-friendly format.
Some newspaper sites no longer offer a printer-option. I suspect
they don't want people printing content.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354874 is a reply to message #354868] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 16:53 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 06:35:56 -0400, Peter Flass wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:20:28 -0400, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>> I am. Wife prints a web page and discovers it's 20 pages of printout with
>>> all the ads and comments included. I almost never print a web page directly
>>> unless it has a "printable page" function, but I wind up wasting a lot of
>>> time pasting the page into Libre Office and deleting all the cruft to
>>> print what I want.
>>
>> Having no printer I went to a print shop (more a shipping Office for
>> Purulator and stuff with some computers acting as internet cafe. One had
>> a printer and I wanted to print one page of 20. Not familiar with Windows
>> I probably right clicked the print button, expecting a context menu like
>> in Linux. But it started to print right away. All 20 pages. I asked the
>> girl behind the counter to stop it but she refused (bit**!). Was really
>> angry so hard turned off the computer. Which upset her. *g*
>>
>> It printed 8 pages I had to pay for (I think it was $.5 per page).
>
> Many web "pages" aren't paginated, they just run on and on. Also many
> printers are buffered so that turning off the computer solves nothing.
Not in my case. Was a PDF file with some 20 pages. I later simulated
printing in Linux (print to file) and selected to just print page 1-5 and
that was exactly what ended up in my new PDF file.
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
someone asks to see your id and you show them your belt buckle.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354875 is a reply to message #354475] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 16:58 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 16:51:36 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On 21 Oct 2017 08:42:58 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>> On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:20:28 -0400, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am. Wife prints a web page and discovers it's 20 pages of printout
>>>> with all the ads and comments included. I almost never print a web
>>>> page directly unless it has a "printable page" function, but I wind
>>>> up wasting a lot of time pasting the page into Libre Office and
>>>> deleting all the cruft to print what I want.
>>>
>>> Having no printer I went to a print shop (more a shipping Office for
>>> Purulator and stuff with some computers acting as internet cafe. One
>>> had a printer and I wanted to print one page of 20. Not familiar with
>>> Windows I probably right clicked the print button, expecting a context
>>> menu like in Linux. But it started to print right away. All 20 pages.
>>> I asked the girl behind the counter to stop it but she refused
>>> (bit**!). Was really angry so hard turned off the computer. Which
>>> upset her. *g*
>>>
>>> It printed 8 pages I had to pay for (I think it was $.5 per page).
>>
>> Sympathy. Print shops here, as well, are expensive. On my system,
>> still, and likely to remain, Slackware, there is a command line option
>> of printing page x->x+ , on XWindows this is under "options" on most
>> utilities. `Print' will print all. We had a wondreful print shop in a
>> local town, with a knowledgable staff, it closed, now all we have is a
>> "Hey, you are unemployable, you can work here", windows based place.
>
> When I use a PDF reader here in Linux (evince), or print form a browser
> (Firefox or Chrome), I click "Print" and get a menu to check "Print all"
> or "Print from _ to _" where I enter the first and last page I want to
> print. No idea why Windows just wanted to print everything without
> asking before what pages.
The Office apps have more then one Print button. One prints it at once,
the other asks. You csn customise which (or both) appera on the quick
access bar. It was probably customised with the wrong one.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354876 is a reply to message #354475] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 17:02 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 21 Oct 2017 08:42:58 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>> On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:20:28 -0400, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am. Wife prints a web page and discovers it's 20 pages of printout with
>>>> all the ads and comments included. I almost never print a web page directly
>>>> unless it has a "printable page" function, but I wind up wasting a lot of
>>>> time pasting the page into Libre Office and deleting all the cruft to
>>>> print what I want.
>>>
>>> Having no printer I went to a print shop (more a shipping Office for
>>> Purulator and stuff with some computers acting as internet cafe. One had
>>> a printer and I wanted to print one page of 20. Not familiar with Windows
>>> I probably right clicked the print button, expecting a context menu like
>>> in Linux. But it started to print right away. All 20 pages. I asked the
>>> girl behind the counter to stop it but she refused (bit**!). Was really
>>> angry so hard turned off the computer. Which upset her. *g*
>>>
>>> It printed 8 pages I had to pay for (I think it was $.5 per page).
>>
>> Sympathy. Print shops here, as well, are expensive. On my system,
>> still, and likely to remain, Slackware, there is a command line
>> option of printing page x->x+ , on XWindows this is under "options" on
>> most utilities. `Print' will print all. We had a wondreful print shop
>> in a local town, with a knowledgable staff, it closed, now all we
>> have is a "Hey, you are unemployable, you can work here", windows
>> based place.
>
> When I use a PDF reader here in Linux (evince), or print form a browser
> (Firefox or Chrome), I click "Print" and get a menu to check "Print all"
> or "Print from _ to _" where I enter the first and last page I want to
> print. No idea why Windows just wanted to print everything without asking
> before what pages.
Probably be Use it wasn't PDF.
--
Pete
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354877 is a reply to message #354871] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 19:18 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Alan Frisbie
On 10/21/2017 12:17 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> The Campbell-Kelly history says the 1401 sold very well because
> of its high quality and fast 1403 printer.
>
> It always amazed me the crappy 'wavy' output that other
> computer manufacturers offered on their printers.
That is because IBM used a print chain/train that moved the
characters horizontally, while other printers (typically) used
a drum, which moved them vertically.
Small timing errors with the hammers would cause the printed
character to vary in position. IBM recognized that the human
eye/brain was much less sensitive to horizontal variations than
to vertical variations. This made IBM printers look much
better than the competition, even though the position variations
were of the same magnitude.
Alan Frisbie
|
|
|
|
| Re: 1403 printers, was The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354878 is a reply to message #354877] |
Sat, 21 October 2017 22:34 |
John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In article <gvGdnX4QK_FnSHbEnZ2dnUU7-N3NnZ2d@supernews.com>,
Alan Frisbie <Usenet03_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/2017 12:17 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> The Campbell-Kelly history says the 1401 sold very well because
>> of its high quality and fast 1403 printer. ...
> Small timing errors with the hammers would cause the printed
> character to vary in position. IBM recognized that the human
> eye/brain was much less sensitive to horizontal variations than
> to vertical variations. This made IBM printers look much
> better than the competition, even though the position variations
> were of the same magnitude.
The 1403 printer was one of IBM's great products. It lasted a long
time, and could be hooked up to later computers including most (all?)
models of the 360 and the 1130 and 1800 minis. The print quality was
good enough that the masters for many IBM manuals were printed on them
as were books such as Gries' popular 1971 compiler text.
R's,
John
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354880 is a reply to message #354877] |
Sun, 22 October 2017 01:03 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 10/21/2017 6:18 PM, Alan Frisbie wrote:
> On 10/21/2017 12:17 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> The Campbell-Kelly history says the 1401 sold very well because
>> of its high quality and fast 1403 printer.
>>
>> It always amazed me the crappy 'wavy' output that other
>> computer manufacturers offered on their printers.
>
> That is because IBM used a print chain/train that moved the
> characters horizontally, while other printers (typically) used
> a drum, which moved them vertically.
>
The university I attended had a DecSystem-20/50 with two hard disks.
The hard disks were each about the size of a portable automatic dish
washer. The main unit was darkish red (terracotta) and grey... I still
think it was beautiful!
The computer center also had two magtape drives, a punch card reader,
and a 300 line per minute printer. The card reader and the printer were
seldom used... although I sometimes printed program listings if I was
using a terminal near the computer center.
I don't know how many people used the magtape drives. I had a magtape
of some of my files, because my disk quota was 200 pages logged in and
150 pages logged out. So my disk files had to be pruned to 150 pages
before I could log out. i kept the overflow on the magtape.
Yes, our Dec=20 installation was minimal, but I enjoyed using the
machine! Most students only knew how to use the IBM 370/155, so the
Dec-20 was very available.
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354881 is a reply to message #354869] |
Sun, 22 October 2017 01:11 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 10/21/2017 8:38 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Bob Eager wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:47:14 +0000, mausg wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> On 20 Oct 2017 13:56:41 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Btw. I never used CP/M until may be two years ago. My first computer
>>>> >> "OS"
>>>> >> was in the Commodore 64, then the Amiga, then Windows 95. But reading
>>>> >> about CP/M made me interested in that. So I also ran some Z80
>>>> >> machines, running CP/M themselves in an emulator (M.A.M.E.).
>>>> >
>>>> > the command might be ED but is it a copy of the LINED functionality?
>>>> > That was the question I was answering. Sorry for my confusion.
>>>>
>>>> I never came across LINED so cannot tell.
>>>>
>>>> So far I ran CP/M only on a Kaypro II and various Osbornes - all
>>>> emulated. There was just ED. But I also got myself WordStar. ED is a
>>>> real PITA.
>>>
>>>
>>> I forget the name of the resident text editor on the amiga, Cygnused
>>> rapidly took over, but there was two, at least, CP/M type thingies, and
>>> of which had a lot of `vi' (commands, whatever) such as pressing `5' and
>>> 'p' and repeating lines. Suddenly, the world was a bigger place
>>
>> What amazed me was the BBC microcomputer. At work, I installed an
>> assembler ROM into mine so that I could modify the Kermit for it.
>>
>> The ROM came with a 6502 assembler, and an editor. I was overjoyed top
>> discover no learning curve - it was TECO.
>
> TECO was my first editor. On TOPS-10, type ahead was allowed so my
> editing could fly way ahead of the printing of the last edit which
> usually ended with -2T2T$$. Then somebody decided that TECO
> was slowing down the system and Tape Prep was told to use SOS.
> What a fuckinng PITA. I had to wait for the entire line to type
> out before going on to the next line to edit, which had to type
> out before I could edit that one. It slowed my editing time
> by >75%. Then the guy who made the edict wanted me to do an
> edit. I told him it would take a week if I had to use SOSX
> but would take a day if I could use TECO. The edict faded away.
> Some of the gals liked SOSX so they used that. I hated it so
> I used TECO. My usual edits never expanded beyond 2K because
> just about everything had a page-sized form feed. I never
> understood how the person who did the study came to the
> conclusion that TECO was the culprit which bogged down the system.
>
Maybe... when the system "bogged down" to a crawl, the guy did a
"systat" and found that there were two dozen people running TECO. So,
without looking at the CPU usage, he erroneously concluded that it must
be TECO's fault!!! Boneheaded decisions can be made this way!
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354882 is a reply to message #354870] |
Sun, 22 October 2017 01:13 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 10/21/2017 12:14 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 13:38:11 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>> Bob Eager wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:47:14 +0000, mausg wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-20, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> > On 20 Oct 2017 13:56:41 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Btw. I never used CP/M until may be two years ago. My first
>>>> >>> computer "OS"
>>>> >>> was in the Commodore 64, then the Amiga, then Windows 95. But
>>>> >>> reading about CP/M made me interested in that. So I also ran some
>>>> >>> Z80 machines, running CP/M themselves in an emulator (M.A.M.E.).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> the command might be ED but is it a copy of the LINED functionality?
>>>> >> That was the question I was answering. Sorry for my confusion.
>>>> >
>>>> > I never came across LINED so cannot tell.
>>>> >
>>>> > So far I ran CP/M only on a Kaypro II and various Osbornes - all
>>>> > emulated. There was just ED. But I also got myself WordStar. ED is a
>>>> > real PITA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I forget the name of the resident text editor on the amiga, Cygnused
>>>> rapidly took over, but there was two, at least, CP/M type thingies,
>>>> and of which had a lot of `vi' (commands, whatever) such as pressing
>>>> `5' and 'p' and repeating lines. Suddenly, the world was a bigger
>>>> place
>>>
>>> What amazed me was the BBC microcomputer. At work, I installed an
>>> assembler ROM into mine so that I could modify the Kermit for it.
>>>
>>> The ROM came with a 6502 assembler, and an editor. I was overjoyed top
>>> discover no learning curve - it was TECO.
>>
>> TECO was my first editor. On TOPS-10, type ahead was allowed so my
>> editing could fly way ahead of the printing of the last edit which
>> usually ended with -2T2T$$. Then somebody decided that TECO was
>> slowing down the system and Tape Prep was told to use SOS. What a
>> fuckinng PITA. I had to wait for the entire line to type out before
>> going on to the next line to edit, which had to type out before I could
>> edit that one. It slowed my editing time by >75%. Then the guy who
>> made the edict wanted me to do an edit. I told him it would take a week
>> if I had to use SOSX but would take a day if I could use TECO. The
>> edict faded away. Some of the gals liked SOSX so they used that. I
>> hated it so I used TECO. My usual edits never expanded beyond 2K
>> because just about everything had a page-sized form feed. I never
>> understood how the person who did the study came to the conclusion that
>> TECO was the culprit which bogged down the system.
>
> It probably did have an effect. TECO needed an interrupt after every
> character, instead of after every line.
>
I thought that the later Dec-10's had a PDP-8 or PDP-11 front end that
handled the character-at-a-time interrupts... to free up the main processor.
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
|
|
|
|
| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354883 is a reply to message #354872] |
Sun, 22 October 2017 01:15 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 10/21/2017 2:18 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 4:47:15 AM UTC-4, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>
>> I forget the name of the resident text editor on the amiga, Cygnused
>> rapidly took over, but there was two, at least, CP/M type thingies,
>> and of which had a lot of `vi' (commands, whatever) such as pressing
>> `5' and 'p' and repeating lines. Suddenly, the world was a bigger
>> place
>
> MS-DOS 5.0 brought out a new text editor, combined with QBASIC.
> Very nice.
>
It ain't easy, but ISTM there is a way to run QBASIC under Windows 10.
(This may require also running some sort of emulator...)
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
|
|
|
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
