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Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354185 is a reply to message #354064] Wed, 11 October 2017 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

Hi David,

Private replies to you [David Schmidt (schmidtd@my-deja.com)] are not getting through to your mail server. I wrote to you on October 1st. and Google could not get the message to you. I sent it again using my email client and it was again returned. Because of this, I am letting you know publicly, that it is impossible to get through to you at the (possibly fake) address above.

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354191 is a reply to message #354142] Wed, 11 October 2017 02:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

Hi Jorge & Michael,

My use of the "Monster Cable" brand name WAS a Joke!

The problem is communication from the IIe to the PC, not the other way around. Bootstrapping from the PC to the Apple worked at 50% volume (but not at 75%!) with the Sabrent stereo cable alone (no mono adapter). ADT-Pro-Server is not hearing the Apple Cassette Output. The PC hears it fine. I can even record the pings with Sound Recorder. I have tried it every which way I could--with and without: toroid, mono adapter, eavesdropping Y-adapter, boosting (0%/10%/20%/30%), volume levels (0% to 100%), balancing (Left/Center/Right), muting/disabling everything not needed, etc., etc.

I don't know whether my Lenovo (desktop) PC Microphone input jack is of a mono or stereo form physically. The microphone that came with my older IBM PC (which IS NOT the PC I am using for this) has a stereo jack and it works fine speaking into my Lenovo PC (which IS the PC I am using for this). [I know more about the internals of my Apple II's than I do about my PC's!] If I understand you, Michael, you are saying that I should not use the mono adapters; but, they have had no effect on the volume levels I can achieve; it's identical with and without them (about 40% maximum).

I will try cleaning the Apple II Cassette I/O jacks first. Then, if that does not work, I will try Jorge's method. It might be quite a while though before I get it done, so don't worry if you don't hear from me on this subject for a while.

Sincerely yours,

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354194 is a reply to message #354141] Wed, 11 October 2017 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steven Hirsch is currently offline  Steven Hirsch
Messages: 798
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 10/10/2017 01:28 PM, Michael J. Mahon wrote:

> Those cable resistances are fine. Remember, you're dealing with a
> microphone input which is *at least* hundreds of ohms input resistance,
> and, since it doubles as a line input, 10k is even more likely. So you can
> see that a couple of ohms of cable resistance produces a voltage divider
> where 99.9% of the signal appears at the input.
>
> Clear conclusion: "monster cables" are, and have always been, a complete
> sham!

Hear, hear! It was interesting to watch the snake-oil reappear in the digital
domain with $95 HDMI cables. I buy HDMI cables for $4.50 and the picture
looks just as nice.

Back in the days of audio, I always used and recommended 12/2 SJ electrical
cable for speaker wiring. Low resistive losses and much cheaper than Monster
cable.
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354208 is a reply to message #354185] Wed, 11 October 2017 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
Messages: 993
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 10/11/2017 1:31 AM, James Davis wrote:
> Because of this, I am letting you know publicly, that it is impossible to get through to you at the (possibly fake) address above.

That might be by design. ;-) Some other avenues you might explore:

https://github.com/ADTPro/adtpro/issues
https://sourceforge.net/u/david__schmidt/profile/send_messag e

Message david__schmidt on any of the following fora:
http://atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=members&module= messaging
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?app=members&module=m essaging
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/private.php

"Apple II Enthusiasts" or "Apple /// Enthusiasts" groups on Facebook

....whatever suits your fancy. But solving problems in public is a great
way for everyone to learn. Unless you are trying to send money - that
might be better done in private. :-)
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354211 is a reply to message #354191] Wed, 11 October 2017 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> wrote:
> Hi Jorge & Michael,
>
> My use of the "Monster Cable" brand name WAS a Joke!
>
> The problem is communication from the IIe to the PC, not the other way
> around. Bootstrapping from the PC to the Apple worked at 50% volume (but
> not at 75%!) with the Sabrent stereo cable alone (no mono adapter).
> ADT-Pro-Server is not hearing the Apple Cassette Output. The PC hears it
> fine. I can even record the pings with Sound Recorder. I have tried it
> every which way I could--with and without: toroid, mono adapter,
> eavesdropping Y-adapter, boosting (0%/10%/20%/30%), volume levels (0% to
> 100%), balancing (Left/Center/Right), muting/disabling everything not needed, etc., etc.
>
> I don't know whether my Lenovo (desktop) PC Microphone input jack is of a
> mono or stereo form physically. The microphone that came with my older
> IBM PC (which IS NOT the PC I am using for this) has a stereo jack and it
> works fine speaking into my Lenovo PC (which IS the PC I am using for
> this). [I know more about the internals of my Apple II's than I do about
> my PC's!] If I understand you, Michael, you are saying that I should not
> use the mono adapters; but, they have had no effect on the volume levels
> I can achieve; it's identical with and without them (about 40% maximum).
>
> I will try cleaning the Apple II Cassette I/O jacks first. Then, if that
> does not work, I will try Jorge's method. It might be quite a while
> though before I get it done, so don't worry if you don't hear from me on
> this subject for a while.
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> James Davis
>

James, thanks for the recap.

What you describe sounds like what I thought except for one thing: that
the sound recorder hears the Apple fine. You don't describe the actual
received levels, though.

If the signal received by the PC can be adjusted to 50% as indicated by
sound recorder, the level should be adequate for ADTPro. If the recorded
sound is noise-free, then software must be interfering with ADTPro Server
getting the audio.

I think cleaning the cassette output jack makes sense, to eliminate noise
as an issue.

At this point, trying it with another PC would be interesting.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354236 is a reply to message #354105] Wed, 11 October 2017 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 11:11:18 PM UTC-7, James Davis wrote:
> . . . I have mono(jack)-to-stereo(receptacle) adapters on the IIe end and "Sabrent" 10 foot stereo cables.

Michael,

My statement above is wrong! I was thinking that a jack is a plug, when it is really a receptacle. The statement should be as follows:

I have mono(plug)-to-stereo(jack/receptacle) adapters on the IIe end and "Sabrent" 10 foot stereo cables.

But, these adapters do not short the ring to ground, they short the ring to the tip. plugging stereo cables into them prevents shorting the ring to ground, as plugging stereo cables into mono receptacles would do. So if the microphone input on my PC is a mono jack/receptacle and the Apple II cassette out is too, there should be no problem just using stereo cables; but, if not, then what?

Let's see:

A2-Jack Plug<--Stereo Cable-->Plug Stereo PC-Jack
GND ------- G ------------------ G ------------ GND
GND ------- R ------------------ R ------------ RING
TIP ------- T ------------------ T ------------ TIP (Signal)

No Problem!

With Adapter @ Apple end:
'---+-'
A2-Jack V Plug<--Stereo Cable-->Plug Stereo PC-Jack
GND ------- G ------------------ G ------------ GND
GND +--- R ------------------ R ------------ RING (Signal)
TIP ---+--- T ------------------ T ------------ TIP (Signal)

No Problem!

With Adapter @ Apple end:
'---+-'
A2-Jack V Plug<--Stereo Cable-->Plug Mono PC-Jack
GND ------- G ------------------ G ------------ GND
GND +--- R ------------------ R ------------ GND
TIP ---+--- T ------------------ T ------------ TIP (Signal)

BAD!

But, this is not happening, because I am getting a signal. If it were shorting out, I would not get a signal. So, the PC-Jack must be a stereo-jack, just using the tip and ground for microphone input.

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354238 is a reply to message #354211] Wed, 11 October 2017 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 9:25:58 AM UTC-7, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> James Davis ... wrote:
>> Hi Jorge & Michael,
>>
>> My use of the "Monster Cable" brand name WAS a Joke!
>>
>> The problem is communication from the IIe to the PC, not the other way
>> around. Bootstrapping from the PC to the Apple worked at 50% volume (but
>> not at 75%!) with the Sabrent stereo cable alone (no mono adapter).
>> ADT-Pro-Server is not hearing the Apple Cassette Output. The PC hears it
>> fine. I can even record the pings with Sound Recorder. I have tried it
>> every which way I could--with and without: toroid, mono adapter,
>> eavesdropping Y-adapter, boosting (0%/10%/20%/30%), volume levels (0% to
>> 100%), balancing (Left/Center/Right), muting/disabling everything not needed, etc., etc.
>>
>> I don't know whether my Lenovo (desktop) PC Microphone input jack is of a
>> mono or stereo form physically. The microphone that came with my older
>> IBM PC (which IS NOT the PC I am using for this) has a stereo jack and it
>> works fine speaking into my Lenovo PC (which IS the PC I am using for
>> this). [I know more about the internals of my Apple II's than I do about
>> my PC's!] If I understand you, Michael, you are saying that I should not
>> use the mono adapters; but, they have had no effect on the volume levels
>> I can achieve; it's identical with and without them (about 40% maximum).
>>
>> I will try cleaning the Apple II Cassette I/O jacks first. Then, if that
>> does not work, I will try Jorge's method. It might be quite a while
>> though before I get it done, so don't worry if you don't hear from me on
>> this subject for a while.
>>
>> Sincerely yours,
>>
>> James Davis
>>
>
> James, thanks for the recap.
>
> What you describe sounds like what I thought except for one thing: that
> the sound recorder hears the Apple fine. You don't describe the actual
> received levels, though.
>
> If the signal received by the PC can be adjusted to 50% as indicated by
> sound recorder, the level should be adequate for ADTPro. If the recorded
> sound is noise-free, then software must be interfering with ADTPro Server
> getting the audio.
>
> I think cleaning the cassette output jack makes sense, to eliminate noise
> as an issue.
>
> At this point, trying it with another PC would be interesting.
>
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

Michael,

The levels I receive are the same as they always have been, a maximum of about 1/3 on the Microphone control panel Levels Meter.

Sound Recorder has no meters. It just records to a sound file.

I have cleaned all contacts, and nothing has changed.

If I can't figure out what else could be causing the problem, I will have to try Jorge's method.

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354251 is a reply to message #354236] Thu, 12 October 2017 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 11:11:18 PM UTC-7, James Davis wrote:
>> . . . I have mono(jack)-to-stereo(receptacle) adapters on the IIe end
>> and "Sabrent" 10 foot stereo cables.
>
> Michael,
>
> My statement above is wrong! I was thinking that a jack is a plug, when
> it is really a receptacle. The statement should be as follows:
>
> I have mono(plug)-to-stereo(jack/receptacle) adapters on the IIe end and
> "Sabrent" 10 foot stereo cables.
>
> But, these adapters do not short the ring to ground, they short the ring
> to the tip. plugging stereo cables into them prevents shorting the ring
> to ground, as plugging stereo cables into mono receptacles would do. So
> if the microphone input on my PC is a mono jack/receptacle and the Apple
> II cassette out is too, there should be no problem just using stereo
> cables; but, if not, then what?
>
> Let's see:
>
> A2-Jack Plug<--Stereo Cable-->Plug Stereo PC-Jack
> GND ------- G ------------------ G ------------ GND
> GND ------- R ------------------ R ------------ RING
> TIP ------- T ------------------ T ------------ TIP (Signal)
>
> No Problem!
>
> With Adapter @ Apple end:
> '---+-'
> A2-Jack V Plug<--Stereo Cable-->Plug Stereo PC-Jack
> GND ------- G ------------------ G ------------ GND
> GND +--- R ------------------ R ------------ RING (Signal)
> TIP ---+--- T ------------------ T ------------ TIP (Signal)
>
> No Problem!
>
> With Adapter @ Apple end:
> '---+-'
> A2-Jack V Plug<--Stereo Cable-->Plug Mono PC-Jack
> GND ------- G ------------------ G ------------ GND
> GND +--- R ------------------ R ------------ GND
> TIP ---+--- T ------------------ T ------------ TIP (Signal)
>
> BAD!
>
> But, this is not happening, because I am getting a signal. If it were
> shorting out, I would not get a signal. So, the PC-Jack must be a
> stereo-jack, just using the tip and ground for microphone input.
>
> James Davis
>

In the last case, the "short" is created by a long run of stereo cable,
which is a couple of ohms, and the driving impedance of the cassette output
is 100 ohms, so a few percent of the signal gets through, but not enough to
work with ADTPro.

Try a stereo-to-mono adapter on the PC end to see if that solves the
problem.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354260 is a reply to message #354238] Thu, 12 October 2017 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Jorge

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 3:58:20 AM UTC+2, James Davis wrote:
>
> Sound Recorder has no meters. It just records to a sound file.

To see the waveform with the oscilloscope in my demo page do this:

1.- Goto https://apple2.duckdns.org/turbodemo/ (better with google Chrome)
2.- Click on "LISTEN" (second to last button)
3.- Click on the (small) icon that will appear in the far right of the url bar, a panel will popup, choose there the microphone audio input. If you're using firefox the popup will appear right in front of you, there's no need to click first nowhere.
4.- On the Apple II type CALL -151 to go to the monitor.
5.- In the monitor type 0.BFFFW

Swap cables and plugs and watch the signal live on the scope. The blue (faint) trace behind is analog, the frontmost yellow trace is digital.

A problem you may have is that the signal starts strong but after a few seconds dims to almost nothing. If so the problem is this:

The Macs have a button "reduce ambient noise" in the control panel settings of the microphone input that should better be set to off because these signals look like noise to the noise reduction algorithms. IDK if the PCs have somethig similar, perhaps yes, if they do turn it off. In theory my program disables that, but sadly it does not always work, some browsers ignore the command.

You can also plug a stereo jack to jack cable on the PC between the line output and the MIC input and click on "]LOAD" on the page. That would feed a healthy, good, strong line level signal into the MIC input. But the Apple II cassette out signal is MIC level, not line level.

--
Jorge.
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354322 is a reply to message #354238] Fri, 13 October 2017 01:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 6:58:20 PM UTC-7, James Davis wrote:
> Sound Recorder has no meters. It just records to a sound file.

Hi Michael,

Actually, Sound Recorder does have a meter. I just never noticed it.

The volume level on the Sound Recorder meter is only about 1/10th max.

I could email you a copy of the PINGing sound file if you want to hear it.

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354323 is a reply to message #354251] Fri, 13 October 2017 01:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 9:23:06 PM UTC-7, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Try a stereo-to-mono adapter on the PC end to see if that solves the
> problem.

Michael,

I've tried it every which way and it makes no difference.

I'm going to put a 101 ohm resistor in parallel with R6 when I have the time and space to break into my Apple IIe, sometime it the next year, hopefully.

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354324 is a reply to message #354260] Fri, 13 October 2017 02:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 12:56:05 AM UTC-7, Jorge wrote:
> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 3:58:20 AM UTC+2, James Davis wrote:
>>
>> Sound Recorder has no meters. It just records to a sound file.
>
> To see the waveform with the oscilloscope in my demo page do this:
>
> 1.- Goto https://apple2.duckdns.org/turbodemo/ (better with google Chrome)
> 2.- Click on "LISTEN" (second to last button)
> 3.- Click on the (small) icon that will appear in the far right of the url bar, a panel will popup, choose there the microphone audio input. If you're using firefox the popup will appear right in front of you, there's no need to click first nowhere.
> 4.- On the Apple II type CALL -151 to go to the monitor.
> 5.- In the monitor type 0.BFFFW
>
> Swap cables and plugs and watch the signal live on the scope. The blue (faint) trace behind is analog, the frontmost yellow trace is digital.
>
> A problem you may have is that the signal starts strong but after a few seconds dims to almost nothing. If so the problem is this:
>
> The Macs have a button "reduce ambient noise" in the control panel settings of the microphone input that should better be set to off because these signals look like noise to the noise reduction algorithms. IDK if the PCs have somethig similar, perhaps yes, if they do turn it off. In theory my program disables that, but sadly it does not always work, some browsers ignore the command.
>
> You can also plug a stereo jack to jack cable on the PC between the line output and the MIC input and click on "]LOAD" on the page. That would feed a healthy, good, strong line level signal into the MIC input. But the Apple II cassette out signal is MIC level, not line level.
>
> --
> Jorge.

Jorge,

I don't like Google Chrome, nor JAVA, nor HTML scripts, so your website is useless to me. Write it in strict HTML4 and it will work on MsIE3+.

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354326 is a reply to message #354324] Fri, 13 October 2017 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Jorge

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 8:04:07 AM UTC+2, James Davis wrote:
>
> I don't like Google Chrome, nor JAVA, nor HTML scripts, so your website is useless to me. Write it in strict HTML4 and it will work on MsIE3+.

okay
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354372 is a reply to message #354322] Fri, 13 October 2017 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 6:58:20 PM UTC-7, James Davis wrote:
>> Sound Recorder has no meters. It just records to a sound file.
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Actually, Sound Recorder does have a meter. I just never noticed it.
>
> The volume level on the Sound Recorder meter is only about 1/10th max.
>
> I could email you a copy of the PINGing sound file if you want to hear it.
>
> James Davis

That won't help, since I'm sure the only problem is signal level. Have you
tried a stereo-to-mono converter on both ends of the cable?

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354373 is a reply to message #354323] Fri, 13 October 2017 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 9:23:06 PM UTC-7, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> Try a stereo-to-mono adapter on the PC end to see if that solves the
>> problem.
>
> Michael,
>
> I've tried it every which way and it makes no difference.
>
> I'm going to put a 101 ohm resistor in parallel with R6 when I have the
> time and space to break into my Apple IIe, sometime it the next year, hopefully.
>
> James Davis
>

OK, just be aware that something is wrong with your setup, and boosting the
cassette output level is abnormal and should not be necessary.

If I were you, I'd get (or make) two mono audio cables to connect, as God
and Woz intended. ;-)

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354381 is a reply to message #354323] Fri, 13 October 2017 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gbody4 is currently offline  gbody4
Messages: 47
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Member
James could you post a picture of the adapter and cable ends you are using
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354389 is a reply to message #354373] Sat, 14 October 2017 04:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 4:15:19 PM UTC-7, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> James Davis ... wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 9:23:06 PM UTC-7, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>>> Try a stereo-to-mono adapter on the PC end to see if that solves the
>>> problem.
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I've tried it every which way and it makes no difference.
>>
>> I'm going to put a 101 ohm resistor in parallel with R6 when I have the
>> time and space to break into my Apple IIe, sometime it the next year, hopefully.
>>
>> James Davis
>>
>
> OK, just be aware that something is wrong with your setup, and boosting the
> cassette output level is abnormal and should not be necessary.
>
> If I were you, I'd get (or make) two mono audio cables to connect, as God
> and Woz intended. ;-)
>
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

OK Michael, I'll try making my own cables first.

Then, if I ever get around to opening up my Apple IIe, I will look for cobs and their webs and blow out the (years of) dust.

I should take it all apart and put it back together to clean all contacts to peripheral cards, too.
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354390 is a reply to message #354381] Sat, 14 October 2017 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 7:34:14 PM UTC-7, geoff body wrote:
> James could you post a picture of the adapter and cable ends you are using

Sorry Geoff, I do not do photography anymore, I don't have a digital camera, and I don't use wireless devices, like iPhones with cameras.
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354430 is a reply to message #354208] Sat, 14 October 2017 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

David Schmidtd,

Thought you might want to include this chart on your ADT Audio webpage:

APPLE II to/from IBM PC Disk Transfer (ADT) M/S Cabling Scenarios:
[M/S = MICROPHONE/SPEAKER (JACKS)]

============================================================ =========
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<———— STEREO CABLE ————>> PC M/S (STEREO JACKS)
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<———————————— GND ———————————————— GND ————————————>>——— GND
GND —+—<<———————————— RING ———(RIGHT)———— RING ————————————>>——— RING
TIP ———<<———————————— TIP ————(LEFT)—————— TIP ————————————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+—————<<—— GND ———————————————— GND ————————————>>——— GND
GND —+—<<——+ +——<<—— RING —————(R)—————— RING ————————————>>——— RING
TIP ———<<—————+——<<—— TIP ——————(L)——————— TIP ————————————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<———————————— GND ———————————————— GND ——>>—————+——>>——— GND
GND —+—<<———(R)—————— RING ——[SHORTED]——— RING ——>>——+ +——>>——— RING
TIP ———<<———(L)—————— TIP ———————————————— TIP ——>>——+—————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+—————<<—— GND ———————————————— GND ——>>—————+——>>——— GND
GND —+—<<——+ +——<<—— RING —————(R)—————— RING ——>>——+ +——>>——— RING
TIP ———<<—————+——<<—— TIP ——————(L)——————— TIP ——>>——+—————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
MONO—TO—STEREO = STEREO—TO—MONO
ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS
============================================================ =========


============================================================ =========
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<———— STEREO CABLE ——————>> PC M/S (MONO JACKS)
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<———————————— GND ———————————————— GND ————————————>>—+— GND
GND —+—<<———————————— RING ———(RIGHT)———— RING ————————————>>—+— GND
TIP ———<<———————————— TIP ————(LEFT)—————— TIP ————————————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+—————<<—— GND ———————————————— GND ————————————>>—+— GND
GND —+—<<——+ +——<<—— RING ——[SHORTED]——— RING ——————(R)———>>—+— GND
TIP ———<<—————+——<<—— TIP ———————————————— TIP ——————(L)———>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<———————————— GND ———————————————— GND ——>>—————+——>>—+— GND
GND —+—<<———(R)—————— RING ——[SHORTED]——— RING ——>>——+ +——>>—+— GND
TIP ———<<———(L)—————— TIP ———————————————— TIP ——>>——+—————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+—————<<—— GND ———————————————— GND ——>>—————+——>>—+— GND
GND —+—<<——+ +——<<—— RING —————(R)—————— RING ——>>——+ +——>>—+— GND
TIP ———<<—————+——<<—— TIP ——————(L)——————— TIP ——>>——+—————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
MONO—TO—STEREO = STEREO—TO—MONO
ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS
============================================================ =========


============================================================ =========
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<————— MONO CABLE —————>> PC M/S (STEREO JACKS)
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+————————— GND ——+—————————+——— GND —————————+——>>——— GND
GND —+—<<——+————————— GND ——+ +——— GND —————————+——>>——— RING
TIP ———<<———————————— TIP ———————————————— TIP ————————————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+—————<<—— GND ——+—————————+——— GND —————————+——>>——— GND
GND —+—<<——+ +——<<—— GND ——+[SHORTED]+——— GND —————————+——>>——— RING
TIP ———<<—————+——<<—— TIP ———————————————— TIP ————————————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+————————— GND ——+—————————+——— GND ——>>—————+——>>——— GND
GND —+—<<——+————————— GND ——+[SHORTED]+——— GND ——>>——+ +——>>——— RING
TIP ———<<———————————— TIP ———————————————— TIP ——>>——+—————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+—————<<—— GND ——+—————————+——— GND ——>>—————+——>>——— GND
GND —+—<<——+ +——<<—— GND ——+[SHORTED]+——— GND ——>>——+ +——>>——— RING
TIP ———<<—————+——<<—— TIP ———————————————— TIP ——>>——+—————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
MONO—TO—STEREO = STEREO—TO—MONO
ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS
============================================================ =========


============================================================ =========
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<————— MONO CABLE ———————>> PC M/S (MONO JACKS)
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+————————— GND ——+—————————+——— GND —————————+——>>—+— GND
GND —+—<<——+————————— GND ——+ +——— GND —————————+——>>—+— GND
TIP ———<<———————————— TIP ———————————————— TIP ————————————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+—————<<—— GND ——+—————————+——— GND —————————+——>>—+— GND
GND —+—<<——+ +——<<—— GND ——+[SHORTED]+——— GND —————————+——>>—+— GND
TIP ———<<—————+——<<—— TIP ———————————————— TIP ————————————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+————————— GND ——+—————————+——— GND ——>>—————+——>>—+— GND
GND —+—<<——+————————— GND ——+[SHORTED]+——— GND ——>>——+ +——>>—+— GND
TIP ———<<———————————— TIP ———————————————— TIP ——>>——+—————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
GND —+—<<——+—————<<—— GND ——+—————————+——— GND ——>>—————+——>>—+— GND
GND —+—<<——+ +——<<—— GND ——+[SHORTED]+——— GND ——>>——+ +——>>—+— GND
TIP ———<<—————+——<<—— TIP ———————————————— TIP ——>>——+—————>>——— TIP
============================================================ =========
MONO—TO—STEREO = STEREO—TO—MONO
ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS
============================================================ =========

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354431 is a reply to message #354430] Sat, 14 October 2017 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354432 is a reply to message #354431] Sat, 14 October 2017 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anthonypaulo is currently offline  anthonypaulo
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On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.

Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354433 is a reply to message #354432] Sat, 14 October 2017 21:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:20:51 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>> P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
>
> Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P

:P <- IS FOR LITTLE KIDS, NOT CIVILIZED ADULTS !
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354434 is a reply to message #354433] Sat, 14 October 2017 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anthonypaulo is currently offline  anthonypaulo
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Senior Member
On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:30:51 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:20:51 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>> P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
>>
>> Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P
>
> :P <- IS FOR LITTLE KIDS, NOT CIVILIZED ADULTS !

Precisely why I used it when replying to you! :P j/k
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354435 is a reply to message #354434] Sat, 14 October 2017 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:05:40 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:30:51 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:20:51 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>>> P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
>>>
>>> Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P
>>
>> :P <- IS FOR LITTLE KIDS, NOT CIVILIZED ADULTS !
>
> Precisely why I used it when replying to you! :P j/k

So, what exactly is your problem with me (or mono-spaced fonts) that you have to stick your tongue out about?
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354436 is a reply to message #354435] Sat, 14 October 2017 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anthonypaulo is currently offline  anthonypaulo
Messages: 531
Registered: September 2013
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On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 10:22:50 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:05:40 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:30:51 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:20:51 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>>> > P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P
>>>
>>> :P <- IS FOR LITTLE KIDS, NOT CIVILIZED ADULTS !
>>
>> Precisely why I used it when replying to you! :P j/k
>
> So, what exactly is your problem with me (or mono-spaced fonts) that you have to stick your tongue out about?

Hey, I was just joking around... j/k = just kidding! Thought I'd inject some humor here as it's been kinda stuffy lately. :D
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354437 is a reply to message #354436] Sat, 14 October 2017 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:26:20 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 10:22:50 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:05:40 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:30:51 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:20:51 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>>>> > On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>>> > > P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
>>>> >
>>>> > Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P
>>>>
>>>> :P <- IS FOR LITTLE KIDS, NOT CIVILIZED ADULTS !
>>>
>>> Precisely why I used it when replying to you! :P j/k
>>
>> So, what exactly is your problem with me (or mono-spaced fonts) that you have to stick your tongue out about?
>
> Hey, I was just joking around... j/k = just kidding! Thought I'd inject some humor here as it's been kinda stuffy lately. :D

What you said did not sound like a joke. It made me mad. Must be all the smoke in the air here, giving me a headache, having to keep the house closed up.
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354438 is a reply to message #354437] Sat, 14 October 2017 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anthonypaulo is currently offline  anthonypaulo
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On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 10:32:57 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:26:20 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 10:22:50 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:05:40 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:30:51 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>>> > On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:20:51 PM UTC-7, Anthony Ortiz wrote:
>>>> > > On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>>> > > > P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P
>>>> >
>>>> > :P <- IS FOR LITTLE KIDS, NOT CIVILIZED ADULTS !
>>>>
>>>> Precisely why I used it when replying to you! :P j/k
>>>
>>> So, what exactly is your problem with me (or mono-spaced fonts) that you have to stick your tongue out about?
>>
>> Hey, I was just joking around... j/k = just kidding! Thought I'd inject some humor here as it's been kinda stuffy lately. :D
>
> What you said did not sound like a joke. It made me mad. Must be all the smoke in the air here, giving me a headache, having to keep the house closed up.

Sorry James, I really meant no harm, was just speaking in jest... I was poking a bit of fun at your statement "I do not do photography anymore" by replying "we don't do mono spaced fonts anymore", that's all. I really meant no harm. My sincerest apologies if I offended, was definitely not my intent!
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354449 is a reply to message #354432] Sun, 15 October 2017 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anthony Lawther is currently offline  Anthony Lawther
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Member
Anthony Ortiz <anthonypaulo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>> P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
>
> Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P
>

Who's "We", paleface?
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354453 is a reply to message #354430] Sun, 15 October 2017 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
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On 10/14/2017 9:14 PM, James Davis wrote:
> Thought you might want to include this chart on your ADT Audio webpage:

I might, but I don't understand what it's trying to convey. Can you
explain how to interpret the symbols? Or is one scenario preferable
over the other? Or...?
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354471 is a reply to message #354449] Sun, 15 October 2017 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anthonypaulo is currently offline  anthonypaulo
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On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 8:11:17 AM UTC-4, Anthony Lawther wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>> P.S. It needs to be viewed in a Mono-Spaced Font like Courier New.
>>
>> Sorry, we don't do Mono-Spaced Fonts anymore, like Courier New. :P
>>
>
> Who's "We", paleface?

Them be fightin' werdz!
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354472 is a reply to message #354453] Sun, 15 October 2017 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 9:05:02 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
> On 10/14/2017 9:14 PM, James Davis wrote:
>> Thought you might want to include this chart on your ADT Audio webpage:
>
> I might, but I don't understand what it's trying to convey. Can you
> explain how to interpret the symbols? Or is one scenario preferable
> over the other? Or...?

Yes.

Write to me personally from an email address that I can return email to and I will send you my "Audio ADT Cabling Scenarios.rtf" & "Audio Cabling Scenarios Legend.rtf" files.

Or, copy these texts and make your own files:

-------------------------------
Audio Cabling Scenarios Legend:
-------------------------------

It is four 'Logical Truth Tables' (Kind of!) of four wiring diagrams each for the Audio cable connections possible between an Apple II and an IBM PC.

Using the first group for an example [View in a mono-type font like Courier New with no word-wrap/margins]:

Legend for . . .
============================================================ =========
APPLE II to/from IBM PC Disk Transfer (ADT) [M/S] Cabling Scenarios: = Document Title
[M/S = MICROPHONE/SPEAKER (JACKS)] banner.

============================================================ ========= Type of PC Jacks
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<---- STEREO CABLE -------->> PC (STEREO JACKS) = and Cabling.
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<------------ GND ---------------- GND ------------>>--- GND \ This is one
GND -+-<<------------ RING ---(RIGHT)---- RING ------------>>--- RING +- cable connection
TIP ---<<------------ TIP ----(LEFT)------ TIP ------------>>--- TIP / with 3 internal
============================================================ ========= wires:
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND ---------------- GND ------------>>--- GND = Ground wire;
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- RING -----(R)------ RING ------------>>--- RING = Stereo Right wire;
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ------(L)------- TIP ------------>>--- TIP = Stereo Left wire.
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<------------ GND ---------------- GND -->>-----+-->>--- GND \ This shows that
GND -+-<<---(R)------ RING --[SHORTED]--- RING -->>--+ +-->>--- RING +- the signal gets
TIP ---<<---(L)------ TIP ---------------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP / shorted to ground.
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND ---------------- GND -->>-----+-->>--- GND \ This shows the
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- RING -----(R)------ RING -->>--+ +-->>--- RING +- adapters between
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ------(L)------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP / cables and PC's.
============================================================ =========
^ MONO-TO-STEREO = STEREO-TO-MONO ^
| ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS |
=|========================================================== =======|=
| ^-- These adapters are equal to each other --^ |
| (they are just mirrored drawings of the same kind of device). |
| |
+-- These are the internal wires/connectors inside/on the PC's ---+

-+- represents one wire connected internally to another wire above/below it.

-<<- and ->>- represent the jacks and plugs on the computers, cables, and adapter ends.

GND occupies the space (contact point) where the RING would be on Monophonic Jacks and Cables:

============================================================ ========= Type of PC Jacks
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<----- MONO CABLE ----------->> PC (MONO JACKS) = and Cabling.
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+---------+--- GND ---------+-->>-+- GND \ This is one
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+ +--- GND ---------+-->>-+- GND +- cable connection
TIP ---<<------------ TIP ---------------- TIP ------------>>--- TIP / with 2 internal
============================================================ ========= wires: monophonic.

----------------------------
Audio ADT Cabling Scenarios:
----------------------------

APPLE II to/from IBM PC Disk Transfer (ADT) [M/S] Cabling Scenarios:
[M/S = MICROPHONE/SPEAKER (JACKS)]

============================================================ =========
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<---- STEREO CABLE -------->> PC (STEREO JACKS)
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<------------ GND ---------------- GND ------------>>--- GND
GND -+-<<------------ RING ---(RIGHT)---- RING ------------>>--- RING
TIP ---<<------------ TIP ----(LEFT)------ TIP ------------>>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND ---------------- GND ------------>>--- GND
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- RING -----(R)------ RING ------------>>--- RING
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ------(L)------- TIP ------------>>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<------------ GND ---------------- GND -->>-----+-->>--- GND
GND -+-<<---(R)------ RING --[SHORTED]--- RING -->>--+ +-->>--- RING
TIP ---<<---(L)------ TIP ---------------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND ---------------- GND -->>-----+-->>--- GND
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- RING -----(R)------ RING -->>--+ +-->>--- RING
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ------(L)------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
MONO-TO-STEREO = STEREO-TO-MONO
ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS
============================================================ =========


============================================================ =========
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<---- STEREO CABLE ---------->> PC (MONO JACKS)
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<------------ GND ---------------- GND ------------>>-+- GND
GND -+-<<------------ RING ---(RIGHT)---- RING ------------>>-+- GND
TIP ---<<------------ TIP ----(LEFT)------ TIP ------------>>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND ---------------- GND ------------>>-+- GND
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- RING --[SHORTED]--- RING ------(R)--->>-+- GND
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ---------------- TIP ------(L)--->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<------------ GND ---------------- GND -->>-----+-->>-+- GND
GND -+-<<---(R)------ RING --[SHORTED]--- RING -->>--+ +-->>-+- GND
TIP ---<<---(L)------ TIP ---------------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND ---------------- GND -->>-----+-->>-+- GND
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- RING -----(R)------ RING -->>--+ +-->>-+- GND
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ------(L)------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
MONO-TO-STEREO = STEREO-TO-MONO
ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS
============================================================ =========


============================================================ =========
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<----- MONO CABLE --------->> PC (STEREO JACKS)
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+---------+--- GND ---------+-->>--- GND
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+ +--- GND ---------+-->>--- RING
TIP ---<<------------ TIP ---------------- TIP ------------>>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND --+---------+--- GND ---------+-->>--- GND
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- GND --+[SHORTED]+--- GND ---------+-->>--- RING
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ---------------- TIP ------------>>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+---------+--- GND -->>-----+-->>--- GND
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+[SHORTED]+--- GND -->>--+ +-->>--- RING
TIP ---<<------------ TIP ---------------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND --+---------+--- GND -->>-----+-->>--- GND
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- GND --+[SHORTED]+--- GND -->>--+ +-->>--- RING
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ---------------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
MONO-TO-STEREO = STEREO-TO-MONO
ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS
============================================================ =========


============================================================ =========
APPLE II (MONO JACK) <<----- MONO CABLE ----------->> PC (MONO JACKS)
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+---------+--- GND ---------+-->>-+- GND
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+ +--- GND ---------+-->>-+- GND
TIP ---<<------------ TIP ---------------- TIP ------------>>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND --+---------+--- GND ---------+-->>-+- GND
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- GND --+[SHORTED]+--- GND ---------+-->>-+- GND
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ---------------- TIP ------------>>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+---------+--- GND -->>-----+-->>-+- GND
GND -+-<<--+--------- GND --+[SHORTED]+--- GND -->>--+ +-->>-+- GND
TIP ---<<------------ TIP ---------------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
GND -+-<<--+-----<<-- GND --+---------+--- GND -->>-----+-->>-+- GND
GND -+-<<--+ +--<<-- GND --+[SHORTED]+--- GND -->>--+ +-->>-+- GND
TIP ---<<-----+--<<-- TIP ---------------- TIP -->>--+----->>--- TIP
============================================================ =========
MONO-TO-STEREO = STEREO-TO-MONO
ADAPTERS = ADAPTERS
============================================================ =========

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354649 is a reply to message #354453] Tue, 17 October 2017 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 9:05:02 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
> On 10/14/2017 9:14 PM, James Davis wrote:
>> Thought you might want to include this chart on your ADT Audio webpage:
>
> I might, but I don't understand what it's trying to convey. Can you
> explain how to interpret the symbols? Or is one scenario preferable
> over the other? Or...?

David,

Do you understand my drawings yet?

Please let me know--one way or the other.

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354665 is a reply to message #354649] Wed, 18 October 2017 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
Messages: 993
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On 10/17/2017 9:17 PM, James Davis wrote:
> On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 9:05:02 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
>> On 10/14/2017 9:14 PM, James Davis wrote:
>>> Thought you might want to include this chart on your ADT Audio webpage:
>>
>> I might, but I don't understand what it's trying to convey. Can you
>> explain how to interpret the symbols? Or is one scenario preferable
>> over the other? Or...?
>
> Do you understand my drawings yet?
>
> Please let me know--one way or the other.

There's a lot of detail, and it's interesting academically. But I try
hard to net things out for folks on the website - which is better for
getting folks going. It used to be all about showing off how clever I
was, but now I just try to cut to the chase. If you were writing a
doctoral thesis, this should be in it. If you're trying to get some
Tom, Dick, or Jane going with Audio - not so much.

What _I_ want to know is: have you solved your problem? What audio
cable should I recommend?
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354719 is a reply to message #354665] Wed, 18 October 2017 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 6:17:42 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
> There's a lot of detail, and it's interesting academically. But I try
> hard to net things out for folks on the website - which is better for
> getting folks going. It used to be all about showing off how clever I
> was, but now I just try to cut to the chase. If you were writing a
> doctoral thesis, this should be in it. If you're trying to get some
> Tom, Dick, or Jane going with Audio - not so much.

OK, but you could make up some pictures (of real cables {illustrating my drawings}) to send to individuals AS NEEDED, to show them what they are (or might be) doing wrong.--At least for the combinations that are bad. Just an idea.

> What _I_ want to know is: have you solved your problem? What audio
> cable should I recommend?

No, I have NOT. I will have to put this project on hold (until further notice), until I have the time and space to clean (inside and outside) and refurbish my Apple IIe into a better working order. It has been sitting unused so long that it is not fully up to par, I think. If I take it all apart and clean everything, then put it all back together again, maybe it will work better. If not, then I will try making my own zero resistance mono/stereo cables. Then, if that does not work, I will try Jorge's "shunting R6" idea/method.

I cannot recommend any commercial cables. All the ones I have (old and new), I tested, and they all have 0.5~1.5 ohm resistances. [Commercial manufacturers either: must use too small a wire, don't solder (and just twist) the wires to the connectors, or add-in resistors, before covering the plugs with insulation.] The best thing to recommend, is to "build your own, with 18-AWG or 16-AWG wires (depending on length) soldered to the connector plugs" (for zero resistance). [Larger AWG #'s mean it is smaller wire; So, use larger 16-AWG wire for longer runs.]
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354789 is a reply to message #354719] Fri, 20 October 2017 02:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 6:17:42 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
>> There's a lot of detail, and it's interesting academically. But I try
>> hard to net things out for folks on the website - which is better for
>> getting folks going. It used to be all about showing off how clever I
>> was, but now I just try to cut to the chase. If you were writing a
>> doctoral thesis, this should be in it. If you're trying to get some
>> Tom, Dick, or Jane going with Audio - not so much.
>
> OK, but you could make up some pictures (of real cables {illustrating my
> drawings}) to send to individuals AS NEEDED, to show them what they are
> (or might be) doing wrong.--At least for the combinations that are bad. Just an idea.
>
>> What _I_ want to know is: have you solved your problem? What audio
>> cable should I recommend?
>
> No, I have NOT. I will have to put this project on hold (until further
> notice), until I have the time and space to clean (inside and outside)
> and refurbish my Apple IIe into a better working order. It has been
> sitting unused so long that it is not fully up to par, I think. If I
> take it all apart and clean everything, then put it all back together
> again, maybe it will work better. If not, then I will try making my own
> zero resistance mono/stereo cables. Then, if that does not work, I will
> try Jorge's "shunting R6" idea/method.
>
> I cannot recommend any commercial cables. All the ones I have (old and
> new), I tested, and they all have 0.5~1.5 ohm resistances. [Commercial
> manufacturers either: must use too small a wire, don't solder (and just
> twist) the wires to the connectors, or add-in resistors, before covering
> the plugs with insulation.] The best thing to recommend, is to "build
> your own, with 18-AWG or 16-AWG wires (depending on length) soldered to
> the connector plugs" (for zero resistance). [Larger AWG #'s mean it is
> smaller wire; So, use larger 16-AWG wire for longer runs.]
>

I continue to recommend making mono cables, but not to reduce resistance.
Resistance is not an issue since the cassette input and the PC input are
high impedance inputs compared to *any* metallic connection.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #354795 is a reply to message #354789] Fri, 20 October 2017 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 11:39:51 PM UTC-7, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> James Davis wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 6:17:42 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
>>> There's a lot of detail, and it's interesting academically. But I try
>>> hard to net things out for folks on the website - which is better for
>>> getting folks going. It used to be all about showing off how clever I
>>> was, but now I just try to cut to the chase. If you were writing a
>>> doctoral thesis, this should be in it. If you're trying to get some
>>> Tom, Dick, or Jane going with Audio - not so much.
>>
>> OK, but you could make up some pictures (of real cables {illustrating my
>> drawings}) to send to individuals AS NEEDED, to show them what they are
>> (or might be) doing wrong.--At least for the combinations that are bad. Just an idea.
>>
>>> What _I_ want to know is: have you solved your problem? What audio
>>> cable should I recommend?
>>
>> No, I have NOT. I will have to put this project on hold (until further
>> notice), until I have the time and space to clean (inside and outside)
>> and refurbish my Apple IIe into a better working order. It has been
>> sitting unused so long that it is not fully up to par, I think. If I
>> take it all apart and clean everything, then put it all back together
>> again, maybe it will work better. If not, then I will try making my own
>> zero resistance mono/stereo cables. Then, if that does not work, I will
>> try Jorge's "shunting R6" idea/method.
>>
>> I cannot recommend any commercial cables. All the ones I have (old and
>> new), I tested, and they all have 0.5~1.5 ohm resistances. [Commercial
>> manufacturers either: must use too small a wire, don't solder (and just
>> twist) the wires to the connectors, or add-in resistors, before covering
>> the plugs with insulation.] The best thing to recommend, is to "build
>> your own, with 18-AWG or 16-AWG wires (depending on length) soldered to
>> the connector plugs" (for zero resistance). [Larger AWG #'s mean it is
>> smaller wire; So, use larger 16-AWG wire for longer runs.]
>>
>
> I continue to recommend making mono cables, but not to reduce resistance.
> Resistance is not an issue since the cassette input and the PC input are
> high impedance inputs compared to *any* metallic connection.
>
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

Yes Michael, I hear you.

I think my problem is either that my Apple IIe needs a thorough cleaning, or the fact that all slots are full, or both. Like I said, I'll do it when I have the time and space to do it. [After my wife's kitchen remodel, I'll have to find your "trash bin" and get rid of the garbage surrounding my Apple IIe's, first!]
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #356455 is a reply to message #354665] Fri, 03 November 2017 05:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 6:17:42 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
> What _I_ want to know is: have you solved your problem?

Schmidtd,

Does ADT Pro require 8-bit sound? Or, will it work with 16-bit sound?

The reason I ask is that my Windows PC and the RealTek sound hardware & driver uses 16-bits (minimum) [CD quality] or 24-bits maximum [DVD quality]. And, ADT Pro does not seem to hear it at all.

I wrote a simple Applesoft program: 10 Print "Hello World" then SAVEd it on my Apple II (cassette out) while recording it on my PC with Sound Recorder and saved it as a WMP sound file. This I converted it into a WAV file. Then, I imported it onto a disk image with CiderPress. It worked! But SAVE (to cassette out) does not work from Basic.System with ProDOS (booted), so I cannot use this method to load things into memory and save them to cassette out.

So, I still do not understand why ADT Pro 2.0.2 cannot hear the input, while Sound Recorder can. What is the difference?!

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #356456 is a reply to message #356455] Fri, 03 November 2017 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
Messages: 993
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 11/3/2017 5:03 AM, James Davis wrote:
> Does ADT Pro require 8-bit sound? Or, will it work with 16-bit sound?

It doesn't matter to ADTPro. It uses native Java interfaces to
communicate with whatever sound subsystem the OS has.

> The reason I ask is that my Windows PC and the RealTek sound hardware & driver uses 16-bits (minimum) [CD quality] or 24-bits maximum [DVD quality]. And, ADT Pro does not seem to hear it at all.

I can imagine that it's possible that there are multiple interfaces
presented to Java, and it picks the wrong one - but it's never happened
in the history of audio support. So I'm at a loss how to explain it.

> I wrote a simple Applesoft program: 10 Print "Hello World" then SAVEd it on my Apple II (cassette out) while recording it on my PC with Sound Recorder and saved it as a WMP sound file. This I converted it into a WAV file. Then, I imported it onto a disk image with CiderPress. It worked! But SAVE (to cassette out) does not work from Basic.System with ProDOS (booted), so I cannot use this method to load things into memory and save them to cassette out.

We know your Apple is sending good audio out, that's for sure. Have you
tried feeding it back in to the apple from PC playback?

> So, I still do not understand why ADT Pro 2.0.2 cannot hear the input, while Sound Recorder can. What is the difference?!

Goodness only knows. You seem to be unique in this respect. I can't
recall - have you gone through the audio testing regimen and never got a
positive result?
http://adtpro.com/connectionsaudio.html#Testing
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #356476 is a reply to message #356456] Fri, 03 November 2017 20:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 6:49:25 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
> ... have you gone through the audio testing regimen and never got a
> positive result?

Schmidtd,

Yes, been there, done that!--(See above in this google group < https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/_F3b q8UXUZg>)--We have been working on this for one month. Together! Remember?

James Davis
Re: ADTPRO 2.0.1 over audio fails sending disk [message #356610 is a reply to message #356456] Sun, 05 November 2017 02:01 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 6:49:25 AM UTC-7, schmidtd wrote:
> We know your Apple is sending good audio out, that's for sure.
> Have you tried feeding it back in to the apple from PC playback?

Yes, I was able to download the same "Hello World" program to my Apple IIe from the playback of the WAV file on the PC.
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