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Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350120] Sun, 06 August 2017 12:26 Go to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
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As we know, one of the Apple /// system disks boots DOS 3.3 with Integer
Basic active without locking the system into ][ mode.

A few years ago I wrote a program that, when booted from SOS, loads a
modified ][ mode. It uses SOS to set the
font.

One of this year's K-fest videos shows an Apple /// being booted directly
into FPBASIC, *with a font loaded*, and without locking the system into ][
mode.

How much of this might be possible...

If booted from a /// load a more ][-like font and my custom version of
FPBASIC from disk, then load DOS 3.3 and continue as usual.

Boot DOS 3.3 if loaded from a ][.

-uso.
Re: Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350153 is a reply to message #350120] Sun, 06 August 2017 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
qkumba is currently offline  qkumba
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It's definitely possible. I have a disk that boots ProDOS if the disk in drive 2 is ProDOS, else boots Directi-DOS (two-track Diversi-DOS loaded directly into LC), so that you can catalog and run whatever is in drive 2.
The same idea could be used to detect the hardware instead and load the appropriate OS.
Re: Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350154 is a reply to message #350153] Sun, 06 August 2017 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
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On Sun, 6 Aug 2017, qkumba wrote:

> It's definitely possible. I have a disk that boots ProDOS if the disk in drive 2 is ProDOS, else boots Directi-DOS (two-track Diversi-DOS loaded directly into LC), so that you can catalog and run whatever is in drive 2.
> The same idea could be used to detect the hardware instead and load the appropriate OS.
>

Well, there's the ProDOS/SOS dual bootstrap.

Also with this method, the program could load the necessary code for
"Satan Mode" (the font, the disk rom, the modified FPBASIC), and then just
rely on the Apple ][ boot procedure to load DOS 3.3 (perhaps skipping the
recalibration as it would be unneeded).

-uso.
Re: Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350182 is a reply to message #350154] Sun, 06 August 2017 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris Zuhars

Does Satan mode allow for emulated Apple II to take advantage of 80 column mode, >48k memory, etc? Does it disable the extra hardware to disable native /// hardware advantages to emulated II mode?

I'm designing my homebrew Apple /// to allow emulated II to have these features.

Chris Z
Re: Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350183 is a reply to message #350182] Sun, 06 August 2017 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
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Registered: October 2012
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On Sun, 6 Aug 2017, Chris Zuhars wrote:

> Does Satan mode allow for emulated Apple II to take advantage of 80
> column mode, >48k memory, etc? Does it disable the extra hardware to
> disable native /// hardware advantages to emulated II mode?

The point of Satan Mode is that it doesn't lock the /// down to the ][ at
all. You get the 2 MHz CPU, all the RAM, all the video modes, everything.
But you can still run Apple ][ software.

One of this year's Kfest videos shows Satan Mode in action.

-uso.
Re: Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350191 is a reply to message #350120] Mon, 07 August 2017 05:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patrick Schaefer is currently offline  Patrick Schaefer
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Am 06.08.2017 18:26 schrieb Steve Nickolas:

> One of this year's K-fest videos shows an Apple /// being booted
> directly into FPBASIC, *with a font loaded*, and without locking the
> system into ][ mode.

In the '80s Saturn/Titan offered the III plus II package which allowed
full emulation of an Apple II with 16k card or 128k Saturn card in slot
0. Later, a III plus IIe version appeared with full IIe emulation
including DHires.


The hardware part of the III plus II provides a 16k (or 128 k) RAM board
mapped into $D000..FFFF that is available to the user and a Game Port
socket with paddles, pushbutton inputs and AN outputs. User strobe is
missing, but the signal is there so it is a one-wire mod.

Rob's schematic is still here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w08vxexif9lj47m/Titan3plus2_Schema tic.pdf?dl=0

The rest is software. So the III plus II boot disk is able to load FP
into one of the Apple III's RAM banks and set up graphic modes as
required. All that should be feasible without having the HW board installed.



Patrick
Re: Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350193 is a reply to message #350191] Mon, 07 August 2017 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris Zuhars

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 5:25:35 AM UTC-4, Patrick Schaefer wrote:
> Am 06.08.2017 18:26 schrieb Steve Nickolas:
>
>> One of this year's K-fest videos shows an Apple /// being booted
>> directly into FPBASIC, *with a font loaded*, and without locking the
>> system into ][ mode.
>
> In the '80s Saturn/Titan offered the III plus II package which allowed
> full emulation of an Apple II with 16k card or 128k Saturn card in slot
> 0. Later, a III plus IIe version appeared with full IIe emulation
> including DHires.
>
>
> The hardware part of the III plus II provides a 16k (or 128 k) RAM board
> mapped into $D000..FFFF that is available to the user and a Game Port
> socket with paddles, pushbutton inputs and AN outputs. User strobe is
> missing, but the signal is there so it is a one-wire mod.
>
> Rob's schematic is still here:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/w08vxexif9lj47m/Titan3plus2_Schema tic.pdf?dl=0
>
> The rest is software. So the III plus II boot disk is able to load FP
> into one of the Apple III's RAM banks and set up graphic modes as
> required. All that should be feasible without having the HW board installed.
>
>
>
> Patrick

I've got a /// Plus IIe card which is the bee's knees. I haven't thought about what the boot disk software could do on its own. Awesome.

As a side, I often wondered if a ROM replacement on the IIe board would offer Enhanced IIe capability, including MouseText and other Enhanced features. I need to look at my board more.

I need to go watch that KFest video. I'd heard of Satan mode, but I thought it was just for II+ capability.

Chris Z
Re: Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350225 is a reply to message #350193] Mon, 07 August 2017 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patrick Schaefer is currently offline  Patrick Schaefer
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Am 07.08.2017 14:17 schrieb Chris Zuhars:

> As a side, I often wondered if a ROM replacement on the IIe board
> would offer Enhanced IIe capability, including MouseText and other
> Enhanced features. I need to look at my board more.

The ROM is on your disk, not on your board. The III plus II-board
consists a 16k (language) card or a 128k Saturn card plus an emulation
of the game port. The extension board (with the cable going to the video
state prom socket) emulates the IIe MMU and uses the memory on the 3p2
board as AUX memory for the emulated IIe.

The emulated II / IIe's ROM is made up from Apple III RAM which is
loaded from the startup disk.


So someone needs to have a closer look on the III plus II disk. Not II
plus IIe, because this needs the MMU emulation in hardware. Maybe this
is a job for Antoine ;-) ?


Patrick
Re: Making use of Satan Mode / Booting Satan Mode [message #350265 is a reply to message #350225] Mon, 07 August 2017 20:30 Go to previous message
Rob Justice is currently offline  Rob Justice
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Registered: January 2013
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Member
I'd think the ///plus// disk would not differ two much from the original Apple II emulation disk. There is some information of the disk layout in these articles from Softalk. They may be useful to help better understand the emulation disk.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/391444/Vintage/Magazines /Softalk/articles/softalk-1983-aug-sep-hot-rod-iii-reduced.p df
(these are linked from a scan of them by Paul Hagstrom, thanks Paul)

/Rob
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