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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316130 is a reply to message #316086] |
Tue, 12 April 2016 11:35 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
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On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 12:43:38 AM UTC-6, Bill Buckels wrote:
> On Monday, 11 April 2016 10:47:47 UTC-5, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>> My uploaded disk image finally came out of Asimov's incoming.
>>
>> Here is a collection of some of the best dbl-hi-res graphics you will see on a IIe/IIc.
>>
>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/unsorted/d bl.res.grafx.vhq.2mg.zip
>>
>> To view the dithered images at their best, shrink your emulator window down to the smallest size.
>
> I'll have a look but they'll need to be pretty darned good to be better than what I've done with my converters...
Oh, they are! That's because the scenery here in Saskatchewan is so much more beautiful than in Manitoba. You will have to post some more pictures to prove otherwise. :>)
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316202 is a reply to message #316130] |
Wed, 13 April 2016 05:35 |
Bill Buckels
Messages: 1418 Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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On Tuesday, 12 April 2016 10:35:36 UTC-5, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 12:43:38 AM UTC-6, Bill Buckels wrote:
>> On Monday, 11 April 2016 10:47:47 UTC-5, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>>> My uploaded disk image finally came out of Asimov's incoming.
>>>
>>> Here is a collection of some of the best dbl-hi-res graphics you will see on a IIe/IIc.
>>>
>>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/unsorted/d bl.res.grafx.vhq.2mg.zip
>>>
>>> To view the dithered images at their best, shrink your emulator window down to the smallest size.
>>
>> I'll have a look but they'll need to be pretty darned good to be better than what I've done with my converters...
>
>
> Oh, they are! That's because the scenery here in Saskatchewan is so much more beautiful than in Manitoba. You will have to post some more pictures to prove otherwise. :>)
I've been on facebook too much lately... I went looking for the like button when I saw your reply :) Ok, I haven't stopped working on my converters so obviously I have a sh*tload of DHGR images to choose from by now... I won't be rushing but I'll post something in the near future again...
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316268 is a reply to message #316254] |
Wed, 13 April 2016 18:07 |
Jeff Blakeney
Messages: 125 Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
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On 13/04/2016 4:50 PM, Bill Buckels wrote:
> On Monday, 11 April 2016 10:47:47 UTC-5, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>> My uploaded disk image finally came out of Asimov's incoming.
>>
>> Here is a collection of some of the best dbl-hi-res graphics you will see on a IIe/IIc.
>>
>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/unsorted/d bl.res.grafx.vhq.2mg.zip
>>
>> To view the dithered images at their best, shrink your emulator window down to the smallest size.
>
> I tried running the slideshow program in both the kegs32 emulator and the applewin emulator. It worked in neither. Since my own DHGR slideshow programs work in both, I suspect that this does not work.
I use GSPort and I was getting pretty bad images. I realized that the
double hi-res screen wasn't being displayed. I had to do a PR#3 and
then run the slide show program to get it to work. Without the 80
column firmware active, his POKE commands didn't switch in the double
hi-res mode.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316271 is a reply to message #316268] |
Wed, 13 April 2016 19:10 |
Bill Buckels
Messages: 1418 Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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On Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:07:47 UTC-5, Jeff Blakeney wrote:
> On 13/04/2016 4:50 PM, Bill Buckels wrote:
>> On Monday, 11 April 2016 10:47:47 UTC-5, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>>> My uploaded disk image finally came out of Asimov's incoming.
>>>
>>> Here is a collection of some of the best dbl-hi-res graphics you will see on a IIe/IIc.
>>>
>>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/unsorted/d bl.res.grafx.vhq.2mg.zip
>>>
>>> To view the dithered images at their best, shrink your emulator window down to the smallest size.
>>
>> I tried running the slideshow program in both the kegs32 emulator and the applewin emulator. It worked in neither. Since my own DHGR slideshow programs work in both, I suspect that this does not work.
>
> I use GSPort and I was getting pretty bad images. I realized that the
> double hi-res screen wasn't being displayed. I had to do a PR#3 and
> then run the slide show program to get it to work. Without the 80
> column firmware active, his POKE commands didn't switch in the double
> hi-res mode.
Well exactly... :)
Lots of familiar stuff here too... I'd better upload some new and better stuff...
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316282 is a reply to message #316271] |
Wed, 13 April 2016 20:22 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Bill Buckels wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 April 2016 17:07:47 UTC-5, Jeff Blakeney wrote:
>> On 13/04/2016 4:50 PM, Bill Buckels wrote:
>>> On Monday, 11 April 2016 10:47:47 UTC-5, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>>>> My uploaded disk image finally came out of Asimov's incoming.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a collection of some of the best dbl-hi-res graphics you will see on a IIe/IIc.
>>>>
>>>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/unsorted/d bl.res.grafx.vhq.2mg.zip
>>>>
>>>> To view the dithered images at their best, shrink your emulator window down to the smallest size.
>>>
>>> I tried running the slideshow program in both the kegs32 emulator and the applewin emulator. It worked in neither. Since my own DHGR slideshow programs work in both, I suspect that this does not work.
>>
>> I use GSPort and I was getting pretty bad images. I realized that the
>> double hi-res screen wasn't being displayed. I had to do a PR#3 and
>> then run the slide show program to get it to work. Without the 80
>> column firmware active, his POKE commands didn't switch in the double
>> hi-res mode.
>
> Well exactly... :)
>
> Lots of familiar stuff here too... I'd better upload some new and better stuff...
I keep forgetting that I have 80 columns turned on automatically when I boot up. So Dbl-hi-res is already engaged for me when graphics is turned on and sometimes doesn't show up in the software. So yes, do a PR#3 before running, or put a PRINT CHR$(4)"PR#3" in the applesoft listing. And don't say they are pretty bad images since you forgot to turn on the 80-col screen. Some people may get the wrong idea. (what's the smiley face for a glare)
Bill, I did say I collected the best. I picked some of your best pictures, but I couldn't use them as is and had to re-download them from the internet.
The software is stable, but it is the .2mg disk image issue brought up in another thread. I don't know where I got this version of the .2mg disk image from, or if it is Sweet16 that is causing the incompatibility, but these disk images open up fine in CiderPress and only seem to cause trouble in Applewin. The work-around is to create a disk image of the same size in CiderPress and copy the files over.
Still trying to locate the original source of these bad .2mg images. Ciderpress does not create .2mg and I did not create them in Sweet16, so must of downloaded an empty disk from the internet somewhere.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316283 is a reply to message #316282] |
Wed, 13 April 2016 20:30 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2016, gids.rs@sasktel.net wrote:
> I keep forgetting that I have 80 columns turned on automatically when I
> boot up. So Dbl-hi-res is already engaged for me when graphics is
> turned on and sometimes doesn't show up in the software. So yes, do a
> PR#3 before running, or put a PRINT CHR$(4)"PR#3" in the applesoft
> listing. And don't say they are pretty bad images since you forgot to
> turn on the 80-col screen. Some people may get the wrong idea. (what's
> the smiley face for a glare)
">_>" ?
-uso.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316295 is a reply to message #316282] |
Thu, 14 April 2016 01:12 |
Jeff Blakeney
Messages: 125 Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
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On 13/04/2016 8:22 PM, gids.rs@sasktel.net wrote:
> I keep forgetting that I have 80 columns turned on automatically when
> I boot up. So Dbl-hi-res is already engaged for me when graphics is
> turned on and sometimes doesn't show up in the software. So yes, do
> a PR#3 before running, or put a PRINT CHR$(4)"PR#3" in the applesoft
> listing. And don't say they are pretty bad images since you forgot
> to turn on the 80-col screen. Some people may get the wrong idea.
> (what's the smiley face for a glare)
Sorry about any possible confusion to readers but the quality of the
images is what made me realize I wasn't viewing in DHR mode and look for
the source of the problem. :)
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316333 is a reply to message #316268] |
Thu, 14 April 2016 13:12 |
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Originally posted by: Nicola
On 2016-04-13 22:07:54 +0000, Jeff Blakeney said:
> On 13/04/2016 4:50 PM, Bill Buckels wrote:
>> On Monday, 11 April 2016 10:47:47 UTC-5, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>>> My uploaded disk image finally came out of Asimov's incoming.
>>>
>>> Here is a collection of some of the best dbl-hi-res graphics you will
>>> see on a IIe/IIc.
>>>
>>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/unsorted/d bl.res.grafx.vhq.2mg.zip
>>>
>>>
>>> To view the dithered images at their best, shrink your emulator window
>>> down to the smallest size.
>>
>> I tried running the slideshow program in both the kegs32 emulator and
>> the applewin emulator. It worked in neither. Since my own DHGR
>> slideshow programs work in both, I suspect that this does not work.
>
> I use GSPort and I was getting pretty bad images. I realized that the
> double hi-res screen wasn't being displayed. I had to do a PR#3 and
> then run the slide show program to get it to work. Without the 80
> column firmware active, his POKE commands didn't switch in the double
> hi-res mode.
I feel so silly to not have thought about it.
Most of the images I had seen, but a few are new to me. Are they all
vintage pictures?
Also remarkable is the fact that so many pictures have been put in a
relatively small space.
Thanks for sharing!
Nicola
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316344 is a reply to message #316333] |
Thu, 14 April 2016 17:34 |
Bill Buckels
Messages: 1418 Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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On Thursday, 14 April 2016 12:12:13 UTC-5, Nicola wrote:
> Most of the images I had seen, but a few are new to me. Are they all
> vintage pictures?
Some are made from my conversions... but since I am a vintage guy, those are vintage or better:) Usually much better...
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316359 is a reply to message #316344] |
Thu, 14 April 2016 21:26 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 3:34:09 PM UTC-6, Bill Buckels wrote:
> On Thursday, 14 April 2016 12:12:13 UTC-5, Nicola wrote:
>
>> Most of the images I had seen, but a few are new to me. Are they all
>> vintage pictures?
>
> Some are made from my conversions... but since I am a vintage guy, those are vintage or better:) Usually much better...
I am not sure if I understand what "vintage" means in this instance. Only 2 of Bills conversions were used. A few more of Bill's pictures I couldn't use as is, I felt I was getting too much color loss, so I went to the internet to download the original.
Some were converted over from the Super Hi-res screen collection.
Two programs that I wrote were essential into getting the pictures into dbl-hi-res. One program can capture any part of the Super-hi-res screen to a max size of 140x192. I created an SHR palette that matches the dbl-hi-res colors, so the picture looks almost identical when captured to DHR, except for the wider pixels.
Another program I wrote allows me to change any of the dbl-hi-res 16 colors to any other color to allow me to get the best effect. It also features an UNDO function so I can revert to the original picture if I didn't like the conversion.
But most of the pictures were gathered when you do a search, say, for a movie, and then click on the images button. I have to say I couldn't find one good picture of Captain America, or he would be on the disk too.
I think Canada needs a hero too. Bucky the beaver, just doesn't cut it any more. I am sure Wonder Woman is Canadian though. Why? Because all the best movie stars, singers (Celine Dion), hockey players (too many to name), curling champs, etc. are originally from Canada, then they moved to the states to get rich quicker. And you have to admit, she is, well, uhm, (mind wanders into the abyss). (Comes back to his senses and comes up with a really good answer)
She just looks Canadian :)
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316659 is a reply to message #316648] |
Mon, 18 April 2016 22:13 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 3:45:15 PM UTC-6, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>> I keep forgetting that I have 80 columns turned on automatically
>> when I boot up.
>
> Wasn't 80 columns the standard for most Apple II owners by the mid-1980s?
>
No, all the Basic.system versions still exited to applesoft in 40 columns. So I modified my version to run STARTUP using 80 columns.
I am not sure about BS v1.5 though if it turned on 80 cols. It requires an enhanced IIe, so I don't use it.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316660 is a reply to message #316659] |
Mon, 18 April 2016 23:07 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, gids.rs@sasktel.net wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 3:45:15 PM UTC-6, Yeechang Lee wrote:
>> Rob wrote:
>>> I keep forgetting that I have 80 columns turned on automatically
>>> when I boot up.
>>
>> Wasn't 80 columns the standard for most Apple II owners by the mid-1980s?
>>
>
>
> No, all the Basic.system versions still exited to applesoft in 40 columns. So I modified my version to run STARTUP using 80 columns.
>
> I am not sure about BS v1.5 though if it turned on 80 cols. It requires an enhanced IIe, so I don't use it.
>
>
Not by default.
-uso.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316661 is a reply to message #316659] |
Mon, 18 April 2016 23:06 |
wsxyz
Messages: 157 Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:14:01 AM UTC+9, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 3:45:15 PM UTC-6, Yeechang Lee wrote:
>> Rob wrote:
>>> I keep forgetting that I have 80 columns turned on automatically
>>> when I boot up.
>>
>> Wasn't 80 columns the standard for most Apple II owners by the mid-1980s?
>>
>
>
> No, all the Basic.system versions still exited to applesoft in 40 columns. So I modified my version to run STARTUP using 80 columns.
>
> I am not sure about BS v1.5 though if it turned on 80 cols. It requires an enhanced IIe, so I don't use it.
I am curious as to why you have not enhanced your IIe.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316665 is a reply to message #316661] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 01:12 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 9:06:04 PM UTC-6, wss...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:14:01 AM UTC+9, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 3:45:15 PM UTC-6, Yeechang Lee wrote:
>>> Rob wrote:
>>>> I keep forgetting that I have 80 columns turned on automatically
>>>> when I boot up.
>>>
>>> Wasn't 80 columns the standard for most Apple II owners by the mid-1980s?
>>>
>>
>>
>> No, all the Basic.system versions still exited to applesoft in 40 columns. So I modified my version to run STARTUP using 80 columns.
>>
>> I am not sure about BS v1.5 though if it turned on 80 cols. It requires an enhanced IIe, so I don't use it.
>
> I am curious as to why you have not enhanced your IIe.
Cause I don't want to.
Unenhanced IIe's can display dbl-hi-res as well. Not using enhanced instructions allows everyone to view dbl-hi-res no matter which computer is used.
Another reason I don't program using the 65c02 mnemonics is because I don't need to. I got pretty efficient using regular 6502 code that is used in such a way that using the enhanced instruction set would only save a couple of bytes in the whole program and being a couple of cycles faster doesn't add up to a noticeable speed difference, so it is unnecessary.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316701 is a reply to message #316682] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 15:32 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 4:26:21 AM UTC-6, Steve Nickolas wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, wes wrote:
>
>> Personally I think the new rom is worth the upgrade, whether or not you
>> want to use 65c02 opcodes. But hey that's just my personal opinion.
>
> Agreed; it's my opinion that the old ROM is a buggy mess.
>
> -uso.
You both have mis-read my posts. I didn't say I write programs on an unenhanced IIe.
I write programs that will run on an unenhanced IIe.
fyi, I use Sweet16 to do all my programming.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316702 is a reply to message #316701] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 15:36 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-6, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 4:26:21 AM UTC-6, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, wes wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I think the new rom is worth the upgrade, whether or not you
>>> want to use 65c02 opcodes. But hey that's just my personal opinion.
>>
>> Agreed; it's my opinion that the old ROM is a buggy mess.
>>
>> -uso.
>
>
> You both have mis-read my posts. I didn't say I write programs on an unenhanced IIe.
>
> I write programs that will run on an unenhanced IIe.
>
> fyi, I use Sweet16 to do all my programming.
Maybe mis-read is inaccurate. More like mis-interpreted.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316709 is a reply to message #316701] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 17:35 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, gids.rs@sasktel.net wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 4:26:21 AM UTC-6, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, wes wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I think the new rom is worth the upgrade, whether or not you
>>> want to use 65c02 opcodes. But hey that's just my personal opinion.
>>
>> Agreed; it's my opinion that the old ROM is a buggy mess.
>>
>> -uso.
>
>
> You both have mis-read my posts. I didn't say I write programs on an unenhanced IIe.
>
> I write programs that will run on an unenhanced IIe.
>
> fyi, I use Sweet16 to do all my programming.
>
Most of my code is intended to run on a 64K ][+. Prolly the same idea.
-uso.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316714 is a reply to message #316648] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 20:03 |
Bill Buckels
Messages: 1418 Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, 18 April 2016 16:45:15 UTC-5, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> Wasn't 80 columns the standard for most Apple II owners by the mid-1980s?
The standard for writing a DHGR slideshow program is to initialize the 80 column card. As far as standards for DHGR; that is a rumour that has been grossly exagerrated. The Apple IIgs does not do DHGR properly; DHGR requires composite artifacting which is available only on the Apple IIe NTSC display and 100% compatible.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316721 is a reply to message #316709] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 21:05 |
gids.rs
Messages: 1395 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 3:32:55 PM UTC-6, Steve Nickolas wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, Rob wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 4:26:21 AM UTC-6, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, wes wrote:
>>>
>>>> Personally I think the new rom is worth the upgrade, whether or not you
>>>> want to use 65c02 opcodes. But hey that's just my personal opinion.
>>>
>>> Agreed; it's my opinion that the old ROM is a buggy mess.
>>>
>>> -uso.
>>
>>
>> You both have mis-read my posts. I didn't say I write programs on an unenhanced IIe.
>>
>> I write programs that will run on an unenhanced IIe.
>>
>> fyi, I use Sweet16 to do all my programming.
>>
>
> Most of my code is intended to run on a 64K ][+. Prolly the same idea.
>
> -uso.
More than likely since they use the same instruction set. Only monitor ROM calls differ slightly as far as code goes.
There is a ROM modifier in one of the Nibble magazines that moves the IIe monitor ROM to the language card and changes it back to a II+ monitor ROM to be compatible with those very few games that only work on a II+, so they can be played on a IIe.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316727 is a reply to message #316701] |
Tue, 19 April 2016 23:05 |
wsxyz
Messages: 157 Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
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I did misunderstand. I thought you used an unenhanced IIe.
I code for enhanced IIes and 65c02s because a large majority of actual Apple IIs sold have 65c02 MPUs, because emulators support the 65c02 instruction set, and because the extra instructions are quite useful IMO.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316831 is a reply to message #316665] |
Thu, 21 April 2016 16:15 |
Michael AppleWin Debu
Messages: 1262 Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 10:12:01 PM UTC-7, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
> Another reason I don't program using the 65c02 mnemonics is because I don't need to. I got pretty efficient using regular 6502 code that is used in such a way that using the enhanced instruction set would only save a couple of bytes in the whole program and being a couple of cycles faster doesn't add up to a noticeable speed difference, so it is unnecessary.
I hear ya brother!
I thought I was one of the last 6502 hold-outs! I just switched to the 65C02 this year. Come join us on the dark side. :-)
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316840 is a reply to message #316831] |
Thu, 21 April 2016 19:24 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev' <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 10:12:01 PM UTC-7, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>> Another reason I don't program using the 65c02 mnemonics is because I
>> don't need to. I got pretty efficient using regular 6502 code that is
>> used in such a way that using the enhanced instruction set would only
>> save a couple of bytes in the whole program and being a couple of cycles
>> faster doesn't add up to a noticeable speed difference, so it is unnecessary.
>
> I hear ya brother!
>
> I thought I was one of the last 6502 hold-outs! I just switched to the
> 65C02 this year. Come join us on the dark side. :-)
>
I'm another hold out. ;-)
I'd rather think about how to do it without using 'C02 ops than go back and
recode later. I, too, have found meager savings from the 65C02 ops.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #316843 is a reply to message #316840] |
Thu, 21 April 2016 19:43 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 21 Apr 2016, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev' <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 10:12:01 PM UTC-7, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
>>> Another reason I don't program using the 65c02 mnemonics is because I
>>> don't need to. I got pretty efficient using regular 6502 code that is
>>> used in such a way that using the enhanced instruction set would only
>>> save a couple of bytes in the whole program and being a couple of cycles
>>> faster doesn't add up to a noticeable speed difference, so it is unnecessary.
>>
>> I hear ya brother!
>>
>> I thought I was one of the last 6502 hold-outs! I just switched to the
>> 65C02 this year. Come join us on the dark side. :-)
>>
> I'm another hold out. ;-)
>
> I'd rather think about how to do it without using 'C02 ops than go back and
> recode later. I, too, have found meager savings from the 65C02 ops.
>
My earliest code used C02 opcodes, but these days I don't bother.
-uso.
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #318135 is a reply to message #316840] |
Tue, 17 May 2016 04:14 |
mdj
Messages: 301 Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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On Friday, 22 April 2016 09:24:25 UTC+10, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>> I thought I was one of the last 6502 hold-outs! I just switched to the
>> 65C02 this year. Come join us on the dark side. :-)
>>
> I'm another hold out. ;-)
>
> I'd rather think about how to do it without using 'C02 ops than go back and
> recode later. I, too, have found meager savings from the 65C02 ops.
On hand written code there's little advantage, save perhaps for the unconditional branch, which is almost always replaceable at no cycle cost is at least for me just plain clearer to read.
The rest of them are primarily useful for producing denser and faster code out of compilers. Usually, hand-tuned assembler is all about *removing* the overheads of (among other things) excessive indirection, so it's little surprise the opcodes are of little practical use to the "oily hand bridage" :-)
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #318155 is a reply to message #318135] |
Tue, 17 May 2016 12:03 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767 Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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mdj <mdj.mdj@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, 22 April 2016 09:24:25 UTC+10, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>
>>> I thought I was one of the last 6502 hold-outs! I just switched to the
>>> 65C02 this year. Come join us on the dark side. :-)
>>>
>> I'm another hold out. ;-)
>>
>> I'd rather think about how to do it without using 'C02 ops than go back and
>> recode later. I, too, have found meager savings from the 65C02 ops.
>
> On hand written code there's little advantage, save perhaps for the
> unconditional branch, which is almost always replaceable at no cycle cost
> is at least for me just plain clearer to read.
Right, so whenever I code a conditional branch that will always be taken, I
comment it with "(always)" and put a blank line after it, as I do with any
non-fall-through instruction.
> The rest of them are primarily useful for producing denser and faster
> code out of compilers. Usually, hand-tuned assembler is all about
> *removing* the overheads of (among other things) excessive indirection,
> so it's little surprise the opcodes are of little practical use to the
> "oily hand bridage" :-)
Every once in a while I find I'd like to clear a location when all three
registers are busy, but those situations are pretty rare.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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Re: Some very good quality dbl-hi-res images [message #318252 is a reply to message #318155] |
Thu, 19 May 2016 00:16 |
mdj
Messages: 301 Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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On Wednesday, 18 May 2016 02:03:28 UTC+10, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> Every once in a while I find I'd like to clear a location when all three
> registers are busy, but those situations are pretty rare.
For completeness, the only other thing that's handy is the 2 cycle immediate mode NOP. Not for production code, but a handy aid when 'commenting out'.
If you use opcode $42 for this, it's the same as the WDM 'reserved' instruction on the 65816 which will have I believe the same effect. On a real 6502, this will hang up the processor.
Matt
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