| SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #302136] |
Thu, 08 October 2015 17:12  |
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Originally posted by: courtney
Hi. Just picked up a fully loaded Apple IIe here in the U.K. with a SyMBfile
5.25MB HDD with card. I haven't fired it up yet as the IIe has many more
cards in it, some I have never seen before.
Does anyone have any of the disc images for the Symbiotics HDD system?
Regards
Courtney xx
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| SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #302294 is a reply to message #302136] |
Sat, 10 October 2015 10:45  |
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Originally posted by: courtney
Yes that's the card. I have it in slot 5, tried PR#5 but it doesnt do
anything except reset the Apple and show the Apple][ promt at the top of
the screen with nothing else.
Do you have the .DSK images for any of the support or setup disks for this
please Antoine?
Courtney
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #302315 is a reply to message #302294] |
Sat, 10 October 2015 14:21 |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Saturday, October 10, 2015 at 4:45:42 PM UTC+2, cour...@courtneyblush.co.uk wrote:
> Yes that's the card. I have it in slot 5, tried PR#5 but it doesnt do
> anything except reset the Apple and show the Apple][ promt at the top of
> the screen with nothing else.
>
> Do you have the .DSK images for any of the support or setup disks for this
> please Antoine?
>
> Courtney
Cool.
I keep on telling me that as I own the card, I *must* have the disk somewhere. The question is: "where?"
I'm still trying to locate it, I hope somebody will find it before I do!
Antoine
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #305394 is a reply to message #302136] |
Thu, 26 November 2015 22:48 |
info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 8:12:17 AM UTC+11, cour...@courtneyblush.co.uk wrote:
> Hi. Just picked up a fully loaded Apple IIe here in the U.K. with a SyMBfile
> 5.25MB HDD with card. I haven't fired it up yet as the IIe has many more
> cards in it, some I have never seen before.
>
> Does anyone have any of the disc images for the Symbiotics HDD system?
>
> Regards
>
> Courtney xx
Hi - sorry for the delayed response.
A Noxy or a Fast Noxy will have the same connections for the hard drive so will work in the same way. The difference between them is the speed of the network interface (56Kb for a Noxy, and 1Mb for a Fast Noxy).
If you have it in slot 5 and do a PR#5 it will try and boot from the hard drive so make sure it is on and connected correctly. Is the hard drive powering up correctly? Most of the drives are Rodimes and will flash an error code after power up if there is a problem.
The Apple II text will appear whilst it is trying to boot - early firmware versions of the Noxy/Fast Noxy would hang indefinitely when there was a disk issue, later versions would attempt to display a message back to you. I would suggest carefully partially removing the EPROM from the card and then reinserting it in case there is a connection problem. They are EPROMs so may have errors by now as they do not have an infinite life but I would try checking connections first.
The setup disk is only needed if the hard drive has failed or is blank as the firmware in the ROM and boot software on the drive will emulate a floppy disk drive when the hard drive is setup correctly.
If you have any problems or further information please get back to me I will try and give as much assistance as possible.
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #305396 is a reply to message #302136] |
Thu, 26 November 2015 23:11 |
info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 8:12:17 AM UTC+11, cour...@courtneyblush.co.uk wrote:
> Hi. Just picked up a fully loaded Apple IIe here in the U.K. with a SyMBfile
> 5.25MB HDD with card. I haven't fired it up yet as the IIe has many more
> cards in it, some I have never seen before.
>
> Does anyone have any of the disc images for the Symbiotics HDD system?
>
> Regards
>
> Courtney xx
sorry some extra items - the Noxy and Fast Noxy allowed booting from the network or the locally attached hard drive. If the card is set to boot from the network it will ignore the hard drive, there is a set of switches on the card that set the network address and other options - carefully note what the switches are set to so you can change them back and try changing the highest number switch and see if this fixes it.
Your photo seems to show the Fast Noxy card in a SymbController - whilst it physically fits in an Apple II the firmware in the EPROM may be incorrect to boot in an Apple II. Some of the other photos you have show a higher EPROM version number, do you have any other cards?
The logo on the power switch for the hard drive is the original logo and may have an ST506 from Seagate or Bull (in Belfort) these drives may not work well with a Fast Noxy firmware set as they are optimised for Rodime drives..
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #305397 is a reply to message #303287] |
Fri, 27 November 2015 00:24 |
info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:00:35 AM UTC+11, Courtney Blount wrote:
> This is the card I have
>
>
>
>
> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Hard%20Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Sy mbiotic%20HD%20Controller/Photos/Symbiotic%20Fast%20boot%20c onvertor%20Rev%202%20-%20Front.jpg
>
>
>
>
> Courtney
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-23 22:23:42 +0000, Courtney Blount said:
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-22 11:56:48 +0000, Michaud François said:
>
>
>
>
> Le jeudi 22 octobre 2015 08:49:44 UTC+2, Courtney Blount a écrit :
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
>
> Cant anyone help me with this please?
>
>
>
>
> Courtney xxx
>
>
>
>
> Hi Courtney ,
>
>
>
>
> I got symbiotic cards with SymbFile drive attached to it , another is the Ice :
>
>
>
>
> http://quartdepomme.fr/quartdepomme/Hardware_Apple_II_cards_ %28Updated%29/Pages/Symbiotic_%26_Hard_drive_ICE_10_Mb.htmlÂ
>
>
>
>
> The card i the Apple II is a Fast Noxy Card .
>
> François
>
>
>
>
> I believe mine is a Noxy, not a fast Noxy card.
Hi Courtney,
that picture is a Foxy card (Fast Boot Converter) as it has no network connection and no switches. Looking at the firmware version it looks like there is a problem with communication between the green Foxy card in the Apple and the blue Konan controller as if the communication is OK the Apple II should receive status messages back from the Konan and report them back on the screen.
To see if there is communication try...
- powering off the Apple
- power up the drive and wait a couple of minutes so it is fully started and the drive lights have stopped flashing. You should be able to hear the drive spin up and the lights should stop flashing
- start the Apple II and if the card is in slot 5 do the PR#5 - you should see the drive access light flash a few times as it tries to boot
- if the flashes are brief then the drive is being read but the relevant data is not there, if the flashes are long then you may be having disk read errors so the drive will need reformatting - software is on the utilities disk for this
- if it is not working brief flashes are good as the drive may be useable if you have the software to install the boot software
- if there is a drive problem the drive may continuously flash an error code - please note this down and let me know what it is, the code is repeated
If you get no flashing lights on the drive then this can be caused by...
- the firmware - a damaged EPROM, you cannot fix this so ignore for the time being and try the steps below one at a time
- carefully re-seat all the chips on the Foxy card by lifting slightly and pushing back in
- check the cable to the hard drive and make sure it is the correct way around, the marking on the cable goes to the left where the text PL2 is on the green card. On the blue Konan controller on top of the drive there is a white dot where the marked edge of the cable goes. Only half the wires are used so if you suspect the cable is damaged swap both ends around so you are using the other wires in the cable.
- with the power off carefully reseat the three largest chips in sockets on the blue Konan controller
- check that the ribbon cable between the Apple and the drive is not damaged, some cables became damaged where they enter the drive case
- the drive may not be powering up and freezing the Konan board but I will need to know more about the drive to help you here - a picture of the Konan board that is good enough to read my handwriting on the EPROM and a picture of the drive from the side will help. If none of the above help you can temporarily remove the large cable between the drive and the Konan controller to see if the drive is the issue or the controller as this will unfreeze the controller card if it is waiting for the drive
Hope this helps
Let me know how you go.
Thanks
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #305424 is a reply to message #305402] |
Sat, 28 November 2015 04:05 |
info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On Friday, November 27, 2015 at 10:12:49 PM UTC+11, Antony Mauget wrote:
> info wrote:
>> On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:00:35 AM UTC+11, Courtney Blount wrote:
>>> This is the card I have
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Hard%20Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Sy mbiotic%20HD%20Controller/Photos/Symbiotic%20Fast%20boot%20c onvertor%20Rev%202%20-%20Front.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Courtney
>>>
>
> Hello Courtney,
>
> I also have this card but without any cable, documentation, software or
> extra hardware.
> If you want me to dump the EPROM, just tell me !
>
> --
> ________________
> Antony
> Apple II forever
Hi
Just a warning for anybody following this thread - if you are reprogramming the EPROMs for the Fast Noxy card (big card with 3 LEDs) when the card was manufactured it would only work reliably with Hitachi EPROMs due to a timing issue. The others should be fine with an alternative vendor as long as the EPROM is fast enough.
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #305921 is a reply to message #303287] |
Fri, 11 December 2015 03:33 |
info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Hi Courtney
Are you still having problems with this?
On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:00:35 AM UTC+11, Courtney Blount wrote:
> This is the card I have
>
>
>
>
> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Hard%20Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Sy mbiotic%20HD%20Controller/Photos/Symbiotic%20Fast%20boot%20c onvertor%20Rev%202%20-%20Front.jpg
>
>
>
>
> Courtney
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-23 22:23:42 +0000, Courtney Blount said:
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-22 11:56:48 +0000, Michaud François said:
>
>
>
>
> Le jeudi 22 octobre 2015 08:49:44 UTC+2, Courtney Blount a écrit :
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
>
> Cant anyone help me with this please?
>
>
>
>
> Courtney xxx
>
>
>
>
> Hi Courtney ,
>
>
>
>
> I got symbiotic cards with SymbFile drive attached to it , another is the Ice :
>
>
>
>
> http://quartdepomme.fr/quartdepomme/Hardware_Apple_II_cards_ %28Updated%29/Pages/Symbiotic_%26_Hard_drive_ICE_10_Mb.htmlÂ
>
>
>
>
> The card i the Apple II is a Fast Noxy Card .
>
> François
>
>
>
>
> I believe mine is a Noxy, not a fast Noxy card.
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #305922 is a reply to message #305921] |
Fri, 11 December 2015 03:47 |
mrbrad
Messages: 85
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 12/11/2015 2:33 AM, info@keepclosecontact.com wrote:
> Hi Courtney
>
> Are you still having problems with this?
>
> On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:00:35 AM UTC+11, Courtney Blount wrote:
>> This is the card I have
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Hard%20Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Sy mbiotic%20HD%20Controller/Photos/Symbiotic%20Fast%20boot%20c onvertor%20Rev%202%20-%20Front.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Courtney
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-10-23 22:23:42 +0000, Courtney Blount said:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-10-22 11:56:48 +0000, Michaud François said:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Le jeudi 22 octobre 2015 08:49:44 UTC+2, Courtney Blount a écrit :
>>
>> Hey guys,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cant anyone help me with this please?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Courtney xxx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Courtney ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I got symbiotic cards with SymbFile drive attached to it , another is the Ice :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://quartdepomme.fr/quartdepomme/Hardware_Apple_II_cards_ %28Updated%29/Pages/Symbiotic_%26_Hard_drive_ICE_10_Mb.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The card i the Apple II is a Fast Noxy Card .
>>
>> François
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe mine is a Noxy, not a fast Noxy card.
>
heh I think I too have one of these cards......I always thought it was
for running a mll hd or some such?
anyway interested to see what comes of this ..forgot I had it ....(now
to find it ) :)
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #305928 is a reply to message #305922] |
Fri, 11 December 2015 05:14 |
info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 7:47:29 PM UTC+11, mr. brad wrote:
> On 12/11/2015 2:33 AM, in..@keepclosecontact.com wrote:
>> Hi Courtney
>>
>> Are you still having problems with this?
>>
>> On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:00:35 AM UTC+11, Courtney Blount wrote:
>>> This is the card I have
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Hard%20Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Sy mbiotic%20HD%20Controller/Photos/Symbiotic%20Fast%20boot%20c onvertor%20Rev%202%20-%20Front.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Courtney
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2015-10-23 22:23:42 +0000, Courtney Blount said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2015-10-22 11:56:48 +0000, Michaud François said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le jeudi 22 octobre 2015 08:49:44 UTC+2, Courtney Blount a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hey guys,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cant anyone help me with this please?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Courtney xxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Courtney ,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I got symbiotic cards with SymbFile drive attached to it , another is the Ice :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://quartdepomme.fr/quartdepomme/Hardware_Apple_II_cards_ %28Updated%29/Pages/Symbiotic_%26_Hard_drive_ICE_10_Mb.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The card i the Apple II is a Fast Noxy Card .
>>>
>>> François
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe mine is a Noxy, not a fast Noxy card.
>>
>
> heh I think I too have one of these cards......I always thought it was
> for running a mll hd or some such?
>
> anyway interested to see what comes of this ..forgot I had it ....(now
> to find it ) :)
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
There are 4 types of the card
- the original Foxy card, this card does not boot from the hard drive and needs a special boot floppy disk in the first disk drive in slot 6. There is no EPROM on this card.
- the Fast Boot Converter (also called Foxy by some) that did have an EPROM and did boot from the hard drive so you could do PR#5 if it is in slot 5
- the Noxy card - just a bit bigger than the previous two cards and has a network connector as well as a drive connector, this can boot from a locally attached drive or the network if you have a shared drive on the network (SyMBnet)
- the Fast Noxy card - a 4 layer card that had to be trimmed at one end because it was so long it would hit the inside of the top in an Apple IIe, it could boot from a local drive or the network and provided higher network speeds than the basic Noxy card.
All cards support a local hard drive, the firmware from the Fast Boot Converter will work in all cards for local disk access if that is all you need as the drive interface hardware is the same for all of them. You need a Noxy EPROM for the network functions and want to get really adventurous.
Most SyMBfiles used the same blue Konan controller on the top of the drive unit as the hard drives from ICE but there is a custom SyMBiotic EPROM that is different from the ICE drives and contains codes to optimise the hard drive performance so you might be able to get an ICE drive to work with a SyMBfile card or you might not - typically it will work but just be slow. There should be a code number on the SyMBiotic EPROM to indicate the drive type it is set for and this should match the details on the Rodime sticker on the physical drive unit.
Try not to mix the ICE equipment with the SyMBiotic as even though the two companies were physically close they were rivals and there are subtle differences that can cause you problems. if in doubt contact me and I will see what I can advise.
A couple of items that may cause problems if you are trying to get a SyMBfile working are
- Power supply - it should provide +12 and +5 on the power connectors, same pinout as a PC floppy disk connector. If the hard drive lights are flashing and the drive is spinning up you should be OK. The original power supply was custom made for the SyMBfiles but a normal PC power supply can probably be used if your power supply is faulty. Some drives needed about 3 Amps on the 12V line for a short period to start the drive spinning so make sure your power supply can handle this.
- Head "stiction" - the physical disk surfaces have a thin plastic film on them to provide limited protection from the heads if the drive was jolted whilst in use or while the drive was slowing down. Great idea but sometimes on drives that have not been used for a long time the heads will stick to the plastic coating and prevent the drive from spinning up. Listen carefully when you power up the drive and if you ARE SURE that you do not hear it spinning you may have this problem, the in-field fix for this was to turn the drive on and simultaneously give it a sharp horizontal twist to give an extra rotational pressure on the head/surface this would usually fix it after a few tries.
Any questions just ask and I will try and remember...
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #306089 is a reply to message #305402] |
Sun, 13 December 2015 02:25 |
Aaron Daughtry
Messages: 226
Registered: July 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2015-11-27 11:10:24 +0000, Antony Mauget said:
> info wrote:
>> On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:00:35 AM UTC+11, Courtney Blount wrote:
>>> This is the card I have
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Hard%20Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Sy mbiotic%20HD%20Controller/Photos/Symbiotic%20Fast%20boot%20c onvertor%20Rev%202%20-%20Front.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Courtney
>>>
>
> Hello Courtney,
>
> I also have this card but without any cable, documentation, software or
> extra hardware.
> If you want me to dump the EPROM, just tell me !
Hi Antony, I tried t email you but it got returned. I would really
appreciate the rom dump, thank you.
Courtney
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #306506 is a reply to message #306089] |
Sun, 20 December 2015 04:02 |
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Originally posted by: Antony Mauget
Courtney Blount wrote:
> On 2015-11-27 11:10:24 +0000, Antony Mauget said:
>
>> info wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:00:35 AM UTC+11, Courtney Blount wrote:
>>>> This is the card I have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Hard%20Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Sy mbiotic%20HD%20Controller/Photos/Symbiotic%20Fast%20boot%20c onvertor%20Rev%202%20-%20Front.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Courtney
>>>>
>>
>> Hello Courtney,
>>
>> I also have this card but without any cable, documentation, software or
>> extra hardware.
>> If you want me to dump the EPROM, just tell me !
>
> Hi Antony, I tried t email you but it got returned. I would really
> appreciate the rom dump, thank you.
>
> Courtney
>
Hello Courtney,
I will search for the card and get back to you when the dump will be done.
Regards,
--
________________
Antony
Apple II forever
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #306530 is a reply to message #306506] |
Sun, 20 December 2015 12:19 |
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Originally posted by: Antony Mauget
Antony Mauget wrote:
> Courtney Blount wrote:
>> On 2015-11-27 11:10:24 +0000, Antony Mauget said:
>>
>>> info wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:00:35 AM UTC+11, Courtney Blount
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > This is the card I have
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Hard%20Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Sy mbiotic%20HD%20Controller/Photos/Symbiotic%20Fast%20boot%20c onvertor%20Rev%202%20-%20Front.jpg
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Courtney
>>>> >
>>>
>>> Hello Courtney,
>>>
>>> I also have this card but without any cable, documentation, software or
>>> extra hardware.
>>> If you want me to dump the EPROM, just tell me !
>>
>> Hi Antony, I tried t email you but it got returned. I would really
>> appreciate the rom dump, thank you.
>>
>> Courtney
>>
> Hello Courtney,
>
> I will search for the card and get back to you when the dump will be done.
>
> Regards,
>
Courtney,
The file is here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zxx1rfnt7rcdvf/Symbiotic%20Fast%2 0Boot%20Convertor%20Rev2%20ROM%20-%202764.BIN?dl=0
--
________________
Antony
Apple II forever
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #311089 is a reply to message #302136] |
Wed, 03 February 2016 17:52 |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 11:12:17 PM UTC+2, cour...@courtneyblush.co.uk wrote:
> Hi. Just picked up a fully loaded Apple IIe here in the U.K. with a SyMBfile
> 5.25MB HDD with card. I haven't fired it up yet as the IIe has many more
> cards in it, some I have never seen before.
>
> Does anyone have any of the disc images for the Symbiotics HDD system?
>
> Regards
>
> Courtney xx
Dear Courtney,
We have made great progress thanks to David which whom you have exchanged.
Can we get in touch, please?
Thank you,
Antoine
See email at brutaldeluxe.fr/about/
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| Re: SyMBfile by Symbiotic disks or info please? [message #311367 is a reply to message #311089] |
Sat, 06 February 2016 09:21 |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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When one wants to run the Utilities/Task addition disk, a master password is required to load it. On my system, with a Fast Boot Convertor card, the master passwords are:
- SYV0 (S, Y, V, zero), or
- RPVY
A master password is 4-chars long, only!
Enjoy,
av
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