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Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290870] Sat, 30 May 2015 22:34 Go to next message
smac0031 is currently offline  smac0031
Messages: 56
Registered: August 2012
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Member
I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4
running 10.1.11.

It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
drive.

The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing.
Starting with the optical empty
does nothing. The computer just hangs.

It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you have to
use the button on the front. Same
for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this
computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
has some ideas.

Thanks
Mark Murphy

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290884 is a reply to message #290870] Sun, 31 May 2015 07:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
W.Adrian D'Alessio is currently offline  W.Adrian D'Alessio
Messages: 83
Registered: November 2012
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Disconnect it and fix your problem. Then get a smaller drive.
Why encumber your trusty work horse with problems?

Balance is very valuable in a system.



Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
fluxstringer@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/




On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:34 PM, smac0031 <m.smurph001@gmail.com> wrote:

> I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4
> running 10.1.11.
>
> It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
> drive.
>
> The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing.
> Starting with the optical empty
> does nothing. The computer just hangs.
>
> It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you have to
> use the button on the front. Same
> for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.
>
> Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this
> computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
> has some ideas.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Murphy
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
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> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290889 is a reply to message #290884] Sun, 31 May 2015 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peterhaas is currently offline  peterhaas
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Registered: September 2012
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>> It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
>> drive.

The earliest so-called ATA 133 cards were really ATA 100 cards with a hack
which improved their performance to ATA 133 levels.

In theory, an ATA 100 card for a Mac is still limited to 131,072 MB.

Also in theory, an ATA 133 card for a Mac has the 131,072 MB restriction
lifted.

In theory.

But that was nearly 20 years ago.

These days, so-called "legacy" hardware for support of hard drives, more
specifically SATA hard drives, has 2 TB as its "breaking point".

Go back to a configuration which works, and don't "tickle the tail of the
dragon".

Remember, an ATA PCI card for a PPC Mac "models" the connected hard
drive(s) as SCSI drives.

Up to four drives per card ... Bus 0 Master and Slave, Bus 1 Master and
Slave.

A Mac can accept up to four such ATA cards, but install the fifth such
card and the machine will not pass POST ... it will hang (I know this as I
tested it on a 9500/9600).

There are still some fundamental limitations in a PPC Mac, and hard drive
support is one of these.




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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290890 is a reply to message #290889] Sun, 31 May 2015 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
W.Adrian D'Alessio is currently offline  W.Adrian D'Alessio
Messages: 83
Registered: November 2012
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Can the G4 address that much space? Then put the drive in a USB case and
use the best USB card you can find. Side step the ATA bottle neck.


Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
fluxstringer@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/




On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:27 AM, <peterhaas@cruzio.com> wrote:

>
>>> It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
>>> drive.
>
> The earliest so-called ATA 133 cards were really ATA 100 cards with a hack
> which improved their performance to ATA 133 levels.
>
> In theory, an ATA 100 card for a Mac is still limited to 131,072 MB.
>
> Also in theory, an ATA 133 card for a Mac has the 131,072 MB restriction
> lifted.
>
> In theory.
>
> But that was nearly 20 years ago.
>
> These days, so-called "legacy" hardware for support of hard drives, more
> specifically SATA hard drives, has 2 TB as its "breaking point".
>
> Go back to a configuration which works, and don't "tickle the tail of the
> dragon".
>
> Remember, an ATA PCI card for a PPC Mac "models" the connected hard
> drive(s) as SCSI drives.
>
> Up to four drives per card ... Bus 0 Master and Slave, Bus 1 Master and
> Slave.
>
> A Mac can accept up to four such ATA cards, but install the fifth such
> card and the machine will not pass POST ... it will hang (I know this as I
> tested it on a 9500/9600).
>
> There are still some fundamental limitations in a PPC Mac, and hard drive
> support is one of these.
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290891 is a reply to message #290890] Sun, 31 May 2015 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
W.Adrian D'Alessio is currently offline  W.Adrian D'Alessio
Messages: 83
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Member
USB cards should be cheap if you can find one.


Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
fluxstringer@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/




On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:41 AM, W.Adrian D'Alessio <fluxstringer@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Can the G4 address that much space? Then put the drive in a USB case and
> use the best USB card you can find. Side step the ATA bottle neck.
>
>
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
> fluxstringer@gmail.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
> http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
> http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:27 AM, <peterhaas@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>> It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
>>>> drive.
>>
>> The earliest so-called ATA 133 cards were really ATA 100 cards with a hack
>> which improved their performance to ATA 133 levels.
>>
>> In theory, an ATA 100 card for a Mac is still limited to 131,072 MB.
>>
>> Also in theory, an ATA 133 card for a Mac has the 131,072 MB restriction
>> lifted.
>>
>> In theory.
>>
>> But that was nearly 20 years ago.
>>
>> These days, so-called "legacy" hardware for support of hard drives, more
>> specifically SATA hard drives, has 2 TB as its "breaking point".
>>
>> Go back to a configuration which works, and don't "tickle the tail of the
>> dragon".
>>
>> Remember, an ATA PCI card for a PPC Mac "models" the connected hard
>> drive(s) as SCSI drives.
>>
>> Up to four drives per card ... Bus 0 Master and Slave, Bus 1 Master and
>> Slave.
>>
>> A Mac can accept up to four such ATA cards, but install the fifth such
>> card and the machine will not pass POST ... it will hang (I know this as I
>> tested it on a 9500/9600).
>>
>> There are still some fundamental limitations in a PPC Mac, and hard drive
>> support is one of these.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group
>> for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on
>> Power Macs.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
>> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "G-Group" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to g3-5-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290897 is a reply to message #290890] Sun, 31 May 2015 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peterhaas is currently offline  peterhaas
Messages: 80
Registered: September 2012
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Member

> Can the G4 address that much space?

Remember, the SCSI drives only have one parameter block for specifying the
LBA (but there are several parameter block formats).

Small/large IDE drives are accessed in this way:

1) Small drives have one parameter block, whereas

2) large drives use the same parameter block as small drives, for the
low-order 24 bits of the LBA, and a second parameter block for the
high-prder 24 bits of the LBA, for a total of 48 bits.

Should the drive receive just the first parameter block, then just the
first 131,072 MB will be accessed.

The drive temporarily waits for the second parameter block. If it is
received, then the two 24 bit values are concatenated into a 48 bit LBA,
and the access proceeds.

It is for this reason that large IDE drives which are connected to an
internal IDE port on a PPC Mac can only access 131,072 MB.

However, some PPC Macs can have the LBA48 property turned on, by using
certain special Open Firmware commands. This is what the Speedtools
product simulated using a plug-in extension. But such an extension was not
always required, if Open Firmware was employed to hack the LBA48 property.

See info in ...

http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/Inte rface%20manuals/100293068c.pdf

... starting at page 18.

SCSI drives, which is what ATA drives are modeled after in PCI cards for
Macs (and PCs), whenever a PCI card is employed for their access, have
several parameter blocks, with various bit counts associated with the
specification of the LBA, but only one such parameter block per access.





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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290904 is a reply to message #290870] Sun, 31 May 2015 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank Dutra is currently offline  Frank Dutra
Messages: 12
Registered: September 2012
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Junior Member
FWIW, I have been using "giant" SATA drives for the last 5-6 years
with my 2002 G4 Mystic, which is an earlier machine than the DA. I
currently have a Seritek 1s2 pci SATA card (2 internal ports) with a
2tb Seagate and a 3tb Western digital mounted above the optical drive
slot. I have also used a 4 port seritek card that I abandoned due to
intermittent sleep issues. I believe these both were SATA I cards,
though I have the newer SATA II and III drives, which are supposed to
be backward compatible, and were in my case.

If I recall, certain drives had issues with the chipsets in the pci
cards, but most were compatible. The only problem I've had was
formatting the WD 3 tb drive, which I did with an OWC Voyager
external firewire/usb/sata box. (Disk utility only saw 2 tb, which I
think is the systems upper limit, thus 2tb and 1 tb partitions were
needed). I'm stuck with a pokey 100 bus, but have still have
experienced a noticeable improvement in performance with these large
capacity Sata drives, much faster than using an external firewire box
like the Voyager.






> I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA
> G4 running 10.1.11.
>
> It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data drive.
>
> The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing.
> Starting with the optical empty
> does nothing. The computer just hangs.
>
> It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you
> have to use the button on the front. Same
> for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.
>
> Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize
> this computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
> has some ideas.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Murphy
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a
> group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a
> particular focus on Power Macs.
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> <http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml>http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml
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--
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PO Box 3402
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<mailto: fdutra1@gmail.com>

Voice: (508) 292-1528
FAX: (815) 377-2407


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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290905 is a reply to message #290870] Sun, 31 May 2015 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smac0031 is currently offline  smac0031
Messages: 56
Registered: August 2012
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Member

I have 120 and a 300 in it right now. The 120 is the boot drive. I have a
lot of video files that are filling up the 120. Will a 500GB pata work?

Mark Murphy


On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 10:34:16 PM UTC-4, smac0031 wrote:
>
> I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4
> running 10.1.11.
>
> It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
> drive.
>
> The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing.
> Starting with the optical empty
> does nothing. The computer just hangs.
>
> It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you have to
> use the button on the front. Same
> for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.
>
> Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this
> computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
> has some ideas.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Murphy
>

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290992 is a reply to message #290870] Mon, 01 June 2015 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Walther is currently offline  Jeff Walther
Messages: 134
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member


On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 9:34:16 PM UTC-5, smac0031 wrote:
>
> I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4
> running 10.1.11.
>
> It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you have to
> use the button on the front. Same
> for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.
>
> Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this
> computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
> has some ideas.
>

Does the PATA/SATA adapter have a jumper to set Master/Slave? You could
be having Master/Slave issues.

Jeff Walther


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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290993 is a reply to message #290870] Mon, 01 June 2015 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kris Tilford is currently offline  Kris Tilford
Messages: 133
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member

> On Jun 1, 2015, at 1:32 PM, trag@prismnet.com wrote:
>
> On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 9:34:16 PM UTC-5, smac0031 wrote:
> I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 running 10.1.11.
>
> It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you have to use the button on the front. Same
> for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.
>
> Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
> has some ideas.
>
> Does the PATA/SATA adapter have a jumper to set Master/Slave? You could be having Master/Slave issues.

I’m not following this thread closely, so perhaps this isn’t right, but some of the early G4’s lacked LBA48 support for larger HDs in firmware. There was a patch to enable LBA48 support for bigger drives, but I think this was for models prior to the DA?

http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger- ata-hard-drives.html

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290994 is a reply to message #290992] Mon, 01 June 2015 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peterhaas is currently offline  peterhaas
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> Does the PATA/SATA adapter have a jumper to set Master/Slave? You could
> be having Master/Slave issues.

The SATA to PATA (IDE) converter I have does, indeed, have a Master/Slave
jumper, but, alas, no position which is explicitly Cable Select.

The drives in B&W G3 and later machines support Cable Select, and this is
the optimal choice for those machines.

Alas, the Mini from the same generation DOES NOT support Cable Select ...
the caddies are Master (the built-in hard drive, only) OR Slave (the
optical drive caddy) ... however, those caddies intended to support a
second HD in the place of the optical drive are Master and no jumper is
provided for Slave. Installing the caddy, as shipped, into a Mini will
result in failure to boot as a consequence of the presence of two Masters.
Depending upon the version of hard drive caddy, either soldering a jumper
will be required, or a special metric shunt (jumper) will be required. The
shunts which were shipped with some 2.5" PATA (IDE) drives is usually the
appropriate choice.



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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #290995 is a reply to message #290993] Mon, 01 June 2015 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peterhaas is currently offline  peterhaas
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> I'm not following this thread closely, so perhaps this isn't right,
> but some of the early G4's lacked LBA48 support for larger HDs in
> firmware. There was a patch to enable LBA48 support for bigger drives, but
> I think this was for models prior to the DA?
>
> http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger- ata-hard-drives.html

That IS the correct hack for LBA48.

There was a shorter one posted elsewhere, but the above-cited hack is the
one which ALWAYS worked for me.

The 1000 MHz Quicksivers supposedly came with the LBA48 property already
in O.F.

The 800 MHz Quicksilvers DID NOT.

The determining factor is the P/N of the Quicksilver MB. "-A" does not
have LBA48; "-B" does.

Any model after an 800 MHz Quicksilver should be assumed to support LBA48
OOTB.

One reason for the hack is it is to O.F. itself, so, therefore, it is
active at boot-time.

The Speedtools alternative only works after the extension has been
successfully loaded, so it is not available at boot-time.



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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #291366 is a reply to message #290870] Thu, 04 June 2015 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smac0031 is currently offline  smac0031
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Registered: August 2012
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I tried swapping 1TB seagate from my G5 into my DA G4 and the new drive
into the G5.

The new drive would spin in the G5 and would not come up under Disk Utility.

The Seagate came up in the G4 and after about a minute the G4 had a kernel
panic.

I'm sending the new drive back. Weak link may be the sata pata adapter, but
that would not explain why the
G5 couldn't see it.

Thanks to everybody, I think I'm going to get an intel Mac, one that can
play with my iPhone 5c.

Mark Murphy


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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #291367 is a reply to message #291366] Thu, 04 June 2015 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peterhaas is currently offline  peterhaas
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> Thanks to everybody, I think I'm going to get an intel Mac ...

A very wise choice.

Flexibility and reliability of MacOS X improved dramatically after the
switch to an Intel platform.

10.4.8 was the more-or-less first instance which supported Intel. Alas,
the underlying Intel hardware was somewhat primitive, with most of the
function provided off-chip.

10.9.5 is exceptionally reliable, with almost all function provided on-chip.





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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #291368 is a reply to message #291367] Thu, 04 June 2015 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
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Senior Member

> On Jun 4, 2015, at 4:39 PM, peterhaas@cruzio.com wrote:
>
>
> 10.9.5 is exceptionally reliable, with almost all function provided on-chip.

Unless you need access to Windows server de-duplicated smb:// storage. < http://www.macwindows.com/More-on-OS-X-conflicts-with-Window s-Server-Deduplication.html>

That one drove us mad for a while because the problem comes and goes and we didn’t initially connect it to the dedup process.

Apple introduced the bug in 10.9.3 and did not fix it through 10.9.5. 10.10 DID fix it which forced us to adopt Yosemite as soon as it came out…sigh.



--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #291378 is a reply to message #290870] Thu, 04 June 2015 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kris Tilford is currently offline  Kris Tilford
Messages: 133
Registered: August 2012
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On Jun 4, 2015, at 6:16 PM, smac0031 <m.smurph001@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I tried swapping 1TB seagate from my G5 into my DA G4 and the new drive into the G5.
>
> The new drive would spin in the G5 and would not come up under Disk Utility.
>
> The Seagate came up in the G4 and after about a minute the G4 had a kernel panic.
>
> I'm sending the new drive back. Weak link may be the sata pata adapter, but that would not explain why the
> G5 couldn't see it.
>
> Thanks to everybody, I think I'm going to get an intel Mac, one that can play with my iPhone 5c.
>
> Mark Murphy

Perhaps you’re not swapping hardware “correctly”?

When you’re changing hardware, you need to do two things:

1) zap the PRAM so the firmware reinitializes.

2) Safe Boot to ditch the old boot.cache and rebuild the kext.cache so the new kext configuration is present for the subsequent boot.

If you don’t at least Safe Boot once, you’re using the old boot.cache & kext.cache, so it’s trying to boot with the old hardware configuration. This can often result in panic.

I don’t know what type of SATA adapter you’re using, but the best choice is usually a PCI card. Some cards have “special” firmware for some models of G4 that have “known problems”.

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #291445 is a reply to message #290870] Fri, 05 June 2015 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smac0031 is currently offline  smac0031
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Registered: August 2012
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I've done more testing. This new drive just sits in the computer dumb and
gives no signal that it's there. Neither my DA G4
or my G5 register it. It's nothing.
I tried running Drive Genius and it doesn't find anything there.

I put the 1TB Seagate in my G4 again and zapped the Pram a couple of times
before starting up. This time it came up
and I didn't get a Kernel Panic. I was able to copy 280GB of files to it.
I'm going to put it back in the G5. This new drive
is going back.

Thanks,
Mark


On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 10:34:16 PM UTC-4, smac0031 wrote:
>
> I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4
> running 10.1.11.
>
> It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
> drive.
>
> The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing.
> Starting with the optical empty
> does nothing. The computer just hangs.
>
> It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you have to
> use the button on the front. Same
> for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.
>
> Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this
> computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
> has some ideas.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Murphy
>

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #294924 is a reply to message #290870] Fri, 03 July 2015 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ROBERT H. BAUCOM is currently offline  ROBERT H. BAUCOM
Messages: 27
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Yes, I’m having the same problem with my 2000 Quicksilver w/2001 Processor.
Using it Offline with all my financial Data on it.
Quicken 207
On May 30, 2015, at 9:34 PM, smac0031 <m.smurph001@gmail.com> wrote:

I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 running 10.1.11.

It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data drive.

The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing. Starting with the optical empty
does nothing. The computer just hangs.

It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you have to use the button on the front. Same
for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
has some ideas.

Thanks
Mark Murphy

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #294937 is a reply to message #294924] Fri, 03 July 2015 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peterhaas is currently offline  peterhaas
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> Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this
> computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody has some ideas.

Lots of DOSes (using DOS as a generic term, here, to include products from
MANY developers) have 2 TB as an absolute limit. Or they used to.

My USB/eSATA external docking devices all choke on drives larger than 2 TB
(where Seagate has changed the definition to mean that 2 TB is really
2,000,000,000,000 bytes, which means the actual device capacity is more
... but all DOSes take back some for hidden partitions and, of course, for
the initial directory, so perhaps it is a wash).

M$ was forced into a major rewrite for > 2 TB drives, and A$ suffered some
pain, too.

In my shop, I make sure all boot drives are 2 TB or less (1 TB is my
present fave, particularly for laptops), but pure data drives are allowed
to be up to 3 TB (> 3 TB drives either cost much more per megabyte, or
suffer from lower spindle speeds, or both).

I cannot initialize a 3 TB drive using a dock, but it takes but a few
moments to plug a new drive into an eSATA port.



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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4 [message #295460 is a reply to message #290870] Sat, 11 July 2015 08:22 Go to previous message
Mac User #330250 is currently offline  Mac User #330250
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Registered: August 2012
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Original message from smac0031, 2015-05-31 04:34:
> I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4
> running 10.1.11.
>
> It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
> drive.
>
> The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing.
> Starting with the optical empty
> does nothing. The computer just hangs.
>
> It's had startup issues for some time. It order to reboot it you have to
> use the button on the front. Same
> for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.
>
> Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this
> computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
> has some ideas.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Murphy
Hello Mark!

I'm late, I know, but I just found this thread.
Maybe I missed it, but nobody mentioned block sizes. Newer drives tend
to be Advanced Format, meaning, each sector (physical block) on the
drive is not exactly 512 bytes anymore, but a multiple of that. Most
HDDs use a block size of 4096 bytes i.e. 4k.

The problem is that most older computers, firmwares and operating
systems really require this 512 bytes block size. That is why a lot of
HDDs with Advanced Format use emulation. Instead of reporting the true
block size of 4096, they will report 512, in which case you'd be safe
and could use the drive.

If, on the other hand, you purchased a drive without emulation, it will
report the native block size of 4096. This could have various effects,
including stalling the system completely.

You should read about Advanced Format on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format

Does your drive have an "Advanced 4K Format" or an "Advanced 4Kn Format"
logo? The later, with the letter "n" ("4Kn" versus just "4K") indicates
native mode, which will most likely cause problems.

You should get a drive with 512 byte block size emulation, i.e. one with
the "Advanced 4K Format" logo (without "n" for native – i.e. with an
invisible "e" for emulation ;-)).

Cheers,
Andreas aka Mac User #330250

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