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New Atari Toy Computer [message #282125] Mon, 06 January 1986 15:42 Go to next message
rick1 is currently offline  rick1
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Article-I.D.: sbcs.37
Posted: Mon Jan  6 15:42:41 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 7-Jan-86 07:07:04 EST
Distribution: net
Organization: Computer Science Dept, SUNY@Stony Brook
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Say, toy stores everywhere are going to be carrying a new spiffy neato
toy computer from atari. Its called the 520 ST or something. Can't wait
till my local K-Mart gets them (for about three hundred dollars). Maybe
I'll get a few of them and give them away to small children I know. Hope
there aren't any toxic easily swallowable parts! Wasn't atari supposedly
getting into the *real* computer market or was that some other company?
Too bad about all the poor folks who payed full price (and defended their
action so eloquently on the net). 

Gee I guess it was management that was responsible for Commodore getting
the reputation of building toys. After all, now that the former management
of commodore has moved to atari, behold, the reputation moved with them.
And looky! Commodore is now building the machine of the 80's. Boo Hoo.
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282140 is a reply to message #282125] Wed, 08 January 1986 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rtb is currently offline  rtb
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Article-I.D.: ihlpm.650
Posted: Wed Jan  8 17:15:53 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 9-Jan-86 03:43:16 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP>
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Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
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 >  Say, toy stores everywhere are going to be carrying a new spiffy neato
 >  toy computer from atari. Its called the 520 ST or something. Can't wait
 >  till my local K-Mart gets them (for about three hundred dollars). Maybe
 >  I'll get a few of them and give them away to small children I know. Hope
 >  there aren't any toxic easily swallowable parts! Wasn't atari supposedly
 >  getting into the *real* computer market or was that some other company?
 
Fine, when I stop in at K-mart to buy my toy Sony TV and my toy
Frigidaire freezer I will pick up my toy computer too.

 >  Too bad about all the poor folks who payed full price (and defended their
 >  action so eloquently on the net). 

Who payed full price, I didn't. The unbundled prices I've seen announced
aren't any cheaper than you could get if you shopped around before. The
only difference is that now you can buy the computer, screen, and
disk drive separately.  The announced prices are: Color monitor $400,
Disk Drive $200, Computer $400. A complete system (color) will still retail
for $1000. I payed $925 for the same system and I have a friend who
payed $825 mail order.
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282155 is a reply to message #282125] Wed, 08 January 1986 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freed is currently offline  freed
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Article-I.D.: aum.420
Posted: Wed Jan  8 11:08:44 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 10-Jan-86 05:41:56 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: The Aurora Systems Bunch
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 >  Say, toy stores everywhere are going to be carrying a new spiffy neato
 >  toy computer from atari. Its called the 520 ST or something. Can't wait
 >  till my local K-Mart gets them (for about three hundred dollars). Maybe
 >  I'll get a few of them and give them away to small children I know. Hope
 >  there aren't any toxic easily swallowable parts! Wasn't atari supposedly
 >  getting into the *real* computer market or was that some other company?
 >  Too bad about all the poor folks who payed full price (and defended their
 >  action so eloquently on the net). 
 >  
 >  Gee I guess it was management that was responsible for Commodore getting
 >  the reputation of building toys. After all, now that the former management
 >  of commodore has moved to atari, behold, the reputation moved with them.
 >  And looky! Commodore is now building the machine of the 80's. Boo Hoo.

I just do not understand why people feel so strongly that they have to 
put down a little personal computer like the 520 ST. I am absolutely
incredulous that the USENET with articles on the most ethereal / complex
topics imaginable in the computer world, should also play host to these
inappropriate emotional outbursts. Would someone fill me in as to what
specifically about the Atari is so hideous (except that the price just dropped)
I am planning on buying one and want to avoid the horror of paying less
for a product of the DEVIL. (yes you heard right)
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           Erik James Freed
			   Aurora Systems
			   San Francisco, CA
			   {dual,ptsfa}!aum!freed
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282167 is a reply to message #282125] Fri, 10 January 1986 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
waynekn is currently offline  waynekn
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Article-I.D.: tekig5.402
Posted: Fri Jan 10 00:23:51 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 11-Jan-86 07:37:52 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Lines: 19

 >  Say, toy stores everywhere are going to be carrying a new spiffy neato
 >  toy computer from atari. Its called the 520 ST or something. Can't wait
 >  till my local K-Mart gets them (for about three hundred dollars). Maybe
 >  I'll get a few of them and give them away to small children I know. Hope
 >  there aren't any toxic easily swallowable parts! Wasn't atari supposedly
 >  getting into the *real* computer market or was that some other company?
 >  Too bad about all the poor folks who payed full price (and defended their
 >  action so eloquently on the net). 
 >  

     I OWN BOTH THE ST AND AMIGA.  ( so no only one computer flames )

     I'm sure you must be joking and for your sake I hope it is false.  If
the 520st sold for $300 the Amiga would be almost worthless.  So many people
would buy 520's that a huge support market would spring up around it.  The
Amiga maket would be stunted to say the least.  Really the Amiga is nice, 
but it can compete against a $300 st.

                                      Wayne Knapp
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282190 is a reply to message #282125] Fri, 10 January 1986 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felton.PA is currently offline  Felton.PA
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Article-I.D.: caip.955
Posted: Fri Jan 10 19:05:33 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 13-Jan-86 04:44:49 EST
Sender: daemon@caip.RUTGERS.EDU
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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From: Felton.PA@Xerox.ARPA



 >   Say, toy stores everywhere are going to be carrying a new spiffy
neato
 >  toy computer from atari.

 >  Too bad about all the poor folks who payed full price (and defended
their
 >  action so eloquently on the net).



	First off. You don't know what you are talking about. The $1000 systems
which people are buying in computer stores includes a disk drive and
monitor. The retail store price for the 520 ST is the same as the
computer store price.
	
	Secondly. If you are going to sell a computer at a low price then you
are going to have to do a large volume (just like any other product). If
you want to pay huge margins when you buy a computer then go ahead. You
can feel really proud of your self, because you bought it at a computer
store.
	
	
John
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282192 is a reply to message #282125] Thu, 09 January 1986 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
turner is currently offline  turner
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Article-I.D.: imagen.177
Posted: Thu Jan  9 11:39:18 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 13-Jan-86 07:51:16 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP>
Distribution: net
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 >  Say, toy stores everywhere are going to be carrying a new spiffy neato
 >  toy computer from atari. Its called the 520 ST or something. Can't wait
 >  till my local K-Mart gets them (for about three hundred dollars). Maybe
 >  I'll get a few of them and give them away to small children I know. Hope
 >  there aren't any toxic easily swallowable parts! Wasn't atari supposedly
 >  getting into the *real* computer market or was that some other company?
 >  Too bad about all the poor folks who payed full price (and defended their
 >  action so eloquently on the net). 
 >  
 >  Gee I guess it was management that was responsible for Commodore getting
 >  the reputation of building toys. After all, now that the former management
 >  of commodore has moved to atari, behold, the reputation moved with them.
 >  And looky! Commodore is now building the machine of the 80's. Boo Hoo.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ lineater,\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

perhaps if they could stop just building them and start shipping
them ??? (thats a joke dont flame me!) seriously this is all so much
BS what counts is the quality and quantity of the software available
for the machines (amiga and ST) and i think the jury is still out on
that. though it is treason i think both machines are excellant for
different reasons
-- 
			god bless Lily St. Cyr
			 -Rocky Horror Picture Show

Name:	James Turner
Mail:	Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway, P.O. Box 58101
        Santa Clara, CA 95052-9400
AT&T:	(408) 986-9400
UUCP:	...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner
CompuServe: 76327,1575
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282193 is a reply to message #282125] Fri, 10 January 1986 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mendoza is currently offline  mendoza
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Article-I.D.: aero.201
Posted: Fri Jan 10 10:33:09 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 13-Jan-86 07:57:03 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP>
Reply-To: mendoza@aero.UUCP (Lee Mendoza)
Distribution: net
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Lines: 10

In article <37@sbcs.UUCP> rick1@sbcs.UUCP (Guest account) writes:
 > Too bad about all the poor folks who payed full price (and defended their
 > action so eloquently on the net). 
 > 
Gee, $300 for the computer, $300 for the disk drive, $400 for a color monitor
sounds like just about $1000 to me.  (Guess you Amiga folk must use the "new"
math. :-)

-----
standard disclaimers apply...
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282214 is a reply to message #282125] Sun, 12 January 1986 19:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cs195 is currently offline  cs195
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Article-I.D.: sdcsvax.1302
Posted: Sun Jan 12 19:51:49 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 15-Jan-86 00:36:24 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <402@tekig5.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: EECS Dept. U.C. San Diego
Lines: 33
Summary: **** it's what they call marketing ****

 >       I OWN BOTH THE ST AND AMIGA.  ( so no only one computer flames )
 > 
 >       I'm sure you must be joking and for your sake I hope it is false.  If
 >  the 520st sold for $300 the Amiga would be almost worthless.  So many people
 >  would buy 520's that a huge support market would spring up around it.  The
 >  Amiga market would be stunted to say the least.  Really the Amiga is nice,
 >  but it can compete against a $300 st.
 > 
 >                                        Wayne Knapp

You just don't understand, do you.  You can LOWER the price of a machine
and have your sales go DOWN.  Markets are partially defined by price.  If
you were to lower the price of the ST significantly, it would no longer
compete in the same market as the amiga (not  that it does now).  This
is all textbook marketing.

Companies that don't get into price wars will stay around alot longer.
Remember, a computer is not a commodity.  Software, service, support
the manufacture's financial situation, and advertising are far more
important than price, particularly to businesses.
(the amiga *is* a business machine and would lose that market if it's
price was lowered too much.)

Most people don't understand market positioning.  They think that "you
get what you pay for".  And if machine A costs more, it must be better.
As long as the amiga keeps a unique market position, it will have NO
problem, regardless of what Atari or Apple does.


                                        Roger Bly

"Life is short, standing in line just makes it seem longer."
                                        - An old lady I met once
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282251 is a reply to message #282125] Wed, 15 January 1986 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
boomsma is currently offline  boomsma
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Article-I.D.: ark.635
Posted: Wed Jan 15 10:14:12 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 17-Jan-86 06:44:02 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <402@tekig5.UUCP> <1302@sdcsvax.UUCP>
Reply-To: boomsma@ark.UUCP (Raoul Boomsma)
Distribution: net
Organization: VU Informatica, Amsterdam
Lines: 37
Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:1567 net.micro.atari:2383

In article <1302@sdcsvax.UUCP> cs195@sdcsvax.UUCP (EECS 195) writes:
 > 
 > Companies that don't get into price wars will stay around alot longer.
 > Remember, a computer is not a commodity.  Software, service, support
 > the manufacture's financial situation, and advertising are far more 
 > important than price, particularly to businesses. 
 > (the amiga *is* a business machine and would lose that market if it's 
 > price was lowered too much.)
 > 
 > Most people don't understand market positioning.  They think that "you
 > get what you pay for".  And if machine A costs more, it must be better.
 > As long as the amiga keeps a unique market position, it will have NO
 > problem, regardless of what Atari or Apple does.
 > 

This is a really interesting theory. This guy says that as long as
the prices of the Atari and other companies are kept low, the
Amiga keeps a unique market position, which the others cannot
threat. So the only thing Atari has to do, is to raise the
price of their ST, to start the competition with the Amiga.

This is the most ridiculous marketing theory I ever heard. Of
course, the Amiga is more a business machine than the Atari, but
do you really think business people would buy a computer because
of it's higher price? If you think so, Commodore must have terrible
fears for Apple, 'cause the price of the Mac is about twice as
high as the Amiga and is even much more developed as a business
machine.

I think you must read some more books about 'Price and Quality' and
'Customers Behavior' before saying such heavy statements.
-- 

	Raoul Boomsma
	Vrije Universiteit
	Amsterdam
	...!mcvax!boomsma@ark.UUCP
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282263 is a reply to message #282125] Wed, 15 January 1986 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dave is currently offline  dave
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Article-I.D.: ur-helhe.428
Posted: Wed Jan 15 09:54:40 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 17-Jan-86 07:10:32 EST
References: <955@caip.RUTGERS.EDU>
Reply-To: dave@helheim.UUCP (David F. Carlson)
Organization: U. of Rochester, EE Dept.
Lines: 31

In article <955@caip.RUTGERS.EDU> Felton.PA@Xerox.ARPA writes:
 > From: Felton.PA@Xerox.ARPA
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >>   Say, toy stores everywhere are going to be carrying a new spiffy
 > neato
 >>  toy computer from atari.

Sorry to netters who have posted this or read it..but subsequent to
the announcement that Atari would be mass marketing 520ST was the
announcement of the 1040ST.  Although details of how the packaging
would differ, the machine appears to be upward compatable with the
520ST but with *1MEG of RAM*.  Thus, taking the historical landmark
of being the first off-the-shelf micro to have a minimum configuration
of 1MEG.  Not bad for a toy.  (And then there's apple with a 68000
and 128k of RAM--talk about useless toys.)

Now--pardoning my posting--could we discuss Amiga here and the sour
grapes about other machines to /dev/null.

Yours for better computing,


-- 
"The Faster I Go the Behinder I Get"
--Lewis Carroll

Dave Carlson

{allegra,seismo,decvax}!rochester!ur-valhalla!dave
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282300 is a reply to message #282125] Fri, 17 January 1986 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mykes is currently offline  mykes
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Article-I.D.: 3comvax.355
Posted: Fri Jan 17 18:54:48 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 20-Jan-86 04:58:39 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <402@tekig5.UUCP> <1302@sdcsvax.UUCP> <635@ark.UUCP>
Reply-To: mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz)
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Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:1618 net.micro.atari:2455
Summary: 


I don't think anyone has ever indicated that anyone would buy the Amiga
because it has a higher price than the ST, just that people who are
going to spend $2000 for a computer will not even consider the ST, or
any other less expensive computer.  On the other hand, those who want to
buy a $400 computer won't buy a $2000 Amiga or a $1500 Mac or a $1000
Apple II.

Consider this:  you own a business and are going to spend $3000-$6000 for
a personal computer.  The Amiga with 80MB of hard disk and 8.5MB RAM costs
about the same as an AT, but there is quite a difference in the quality of
the two standards (state of the art relative...).  This large Amiga is
a real impressive standard, and Amiga is making a standard.  Atari's
ST seems to be a follower of existing standards (Mac, Gem...), not the
trendsetter for the next generation of computers.  Not a single posting
has convinced me that the Amiga will end up sitting on a shelf in my 
closet somewhere any faster than the ST - as a matter of fact, it seems
like the ST will find the shelf years (literally years) before the Amiga
will.

Amiga (and Commodore) was not at the CES show in Las Vegas, and most of
the 3rd party people there had ST stuff.  It may seem like a bad indicator
for the Amiga, but IBM wasn't there either.  Sales figures for November show
that the Amiga sold 4% of the computer market and the Mac 7% (I wish I had
figures for the ST).  The Palo Alto Times reported recently that the ST was
outselling the Amiga locally anywhere from 2-1 to 5-1 (but the Amiga isn'y
going to disappear).  However, the C128 outsold everything 5-1 during the
same time.  

Other news of note:  Nintendo sold 250,000 stand alone video game machines
(similar to the Atari 5200) over Christmas in a test market several east
coast cities (talk about things running in circles).  Also, the Aztec 'C'
compiler should become the compiler of choice, but there is one problem
that I have heard about with it - ints are 16 bits.  A simple typedef should
solve the problem, but it is somewhat unfortunate.

I think we all can expect some real exciting things from Commodore and
Amiga in the future.  The Amiga lacks a product that differentiates it
from all the other computers around.  The Mac is a fine desktop publisher,
and for that reason alone (my opinion) it might be worth the price.  THe
Amiga does not do all the fancy stuff yet, but there is little doubt in
my mind that someone will do a MacWrite style program (how about Microsoft
Word for the Amiga).  The Amiga can do everything the Mac or ST or PC can
do, given a little software.  The other's can only do everything the Amiga
can by adding HARDWARE.
can by adding HARDWARE.  While other manufacturers are adding hardware to
provide color (color monitors, graphics boards), speech (votrax), and
music (MIDI), Amiga owners will be adding hardware like STEREO AUDIO 
DIGITIZERS and FRAME GRABBERS.  Facts are facts: the Amiga, when it
matures, will be light years ahead of all its competition, technologically,
and folks like IBM, Apple, and Atari will take at least 2 years to catch
up to what the Amiga is now.

I do not mean any of what I said above to be criticism of any of the
other machines.  Rather, I tried to present facts and details of the
Amiga (and used other computers for comparison).  I don't think I need to
defend my purchase of the Amiga to anyone but myself (and I don't have a
single regret), and I don't think that ST owners need to defend theirs.
Amiga vs. ST is a silly debate, since neither threatens the other in
the marketplace, and the similarities between the two only consists of
WINDOWS, the MOUSE, and the 68000.  Beyond these features, the two
machines are very different.  I don't think that the Amiga is a better
machine (I also don't think that the ST is a better machine), although
it is (ST is too...) much better than the IBM PC standard and the hardware
is better than the Mac (software is a different story).  I do think the
Amiga is the most advanced technology you can buy for under $5000, but the
ST is damn good, too (at even the same price as the Amiga).

I was tempted to stop writing things to post to the newsgroup, because I
am pretty much a novice, and a few people have posted public requests that
I not write.  However, from the E-Mail I get, Mac people want to be
ignorant of the technology that is burying the Mac (don't post stuff to
net.mac...), and Atari and Amiga folks LIKE MY STUFF (3 to 1).  I think
this indicates that net.micro.amiga means more to some people than just a
place to get free software (a real selfish attitude in my opinion).  My
feelings are that the ST vs. Amiga type debates are of interest to a
lot of people (look at all the responses), and to a few they are a bore.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ ALL OF net.micro.amiga, USE THE DAMN 'N' key
and skip the stuff you don't want to read.  Or send me nasty E-MAIL -
if I get enough, I WILL STOP.

P.S.  I would like to see more graphics oriented discussions posted to
the newsgroup.  Has anyone used the ROM Kernel Graphics and Animation
routines yet?  A neat program to post would be a "sprite" or Blitter
Object editor with animation.  Something like IconEd, except that by
sequencing through a set of patterns over time, animations can be
produced.  I know quite a bit about graphics and animation and sounds,
from doing several C64, ColecoVision, VCS, and Coin-op games, and
I am willing to share my expertise.  However, I won't have time to
do a whole lot of programming on my Amiga for a few weeks, so I won't
be able to investigate these routines myself.  However, if someone needs
some assistance, send me E-MAIL, or post questions to the net.  If I can't
answer the questions, a lot of guys at Amiga will probably jump at the
chance to help.  The area of graphics and animation seems to be the one
area that noone has done any major work (Mandelbrots is neat, but it did
not use any of the gels, etc.).  Multi-tasking via the Exec routines would
be nice, too.
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282316 is a reply to message #282125] Thu, 16 January 1986 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
preece is currently offline  preece
Messages: 64
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Article-I.D.: ccvaxa.26600016
Posted: Thu Jan 16 10:08:00 1986
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Nf-ID: #R:sbcs.UUCP:37:ccvaxa:26600016:000:1191
Nf-From: ccvaxa.UUCP!preece    Jan 16 09:08:00 1986


 >  (the amiga *is* a business machine and would lose that market if it's
 >  price was lowered too much.) /* Written  6:51 pm  Jan 12, 1986 by
 >  cs195@sdcsvax.UUCP in ccvaxa:net.micro.amiga */
----------
I'm sure the Amiga people will be glad to know they have that
market to lose.

A "business machine" is defined by the people who buy it and the
people who write software for it.

A machine marketed to business is defined by the people who build
and market it.

So far, NONE of those criteria mark the Amiga as a business machine.
The amrketing is not business oriented, the machine's features are
not those previously recognized as desired by the business community,
the software available for it is not business software, and the
people buying it (from the admittedly limited public information
about who's buying it) are not business people.  The ONLY thing
about it that fits into the business computer market is its price.
Maybe business buyers will be fooled, but I doubt it.

I think the Amiga is a pretty nifty machine, with a lot of
potential.  Calling it a business machine is ludicrous.

-- 
scott preece
gould/csd - urbana
uucp:	ihnp4!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!preece
arpa:	preece@gswd-vms
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282327 is a reply to message #282125] Mon, 20 January 1986 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tim is currently offline  tim
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Article-I.D.: ism780c.279
Posted: Mon Jan 20 16:25:42 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 22-Jan-86 04:55:29 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <402@tekig5.UUCP> <1302@sdcsvax.UUCP> <635@ark.UUCP> <355@3comvax.UUCP>
Reply-To: tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith)
Distribution: net
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Santa Monica, CA
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Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:1640 net.micro.atari:2483

In article <355@3comvax.UUCP> mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) writes:
 > 
 > I don't think anyone has ever indicated that anyone would buy the Amiga
 > because it has a higher price than the ST, just that people who are
 > going to spend $2000 for a computer will not even consider the ST, or
 > any other less expensive computer.

Do you have any evidence for this?  I have never known anyone to put
a lower limit on what they are willing to spend, just an upper limit.

 >  On the other hand, those who want to
 > buy a $400 computer won't buy a $2000 Amiga or a $1500 Mac or a $1000
 > Apple II.
 > 

Probably they are looking for a $400 computer because they can't afford
more.

 > DIGITIZERS and FRAME GRABBERS.  Facts are facts: the Amiga, when it
 > matures, will be light years ahead of all its competition, technologically,
 > and folks like IBM, Apple, and Atari will take at least 2 years to catch
 > up to what the Amiga is now.
 > 
I am willing to believe this about Atari, but I would not be so quick
to count Apple and IBM out.  They both have enough money to do quite
a bit of research and development of new products.  Sure, IBM has been
conservative in the small computer market as far as what they sell,
but I wouldn't be too surprised to find out they have a Mac like or
Amiga like machine already developed, just in case it looks like the
market would be big enough for them.  So you might have to subtract
some from that 2 years.

 > I not write.  However, from the E-Mail I get, Mac people want to be
 > ignorant of the technology that is burying the Mac (don't post stuff to
 > net.mac...), and Atari and Amiga folks LIKE MY STUFF (3 to 1).  I think

Oh hell, why don't we just get rid of all these stupid newsgroups and
post everything to net.general?  Look, the reason people on net.micro.mac
don't want to see a lot of Amiga discussion ( or ST discussion ) in
net.micro.mac is that that is not what that newgroup is for!  We come
over here to see the Amiga stuff, and we go to net.micro.atari for the
ST stuff.  How would you like it if mod.computers.sun was diverted into
net.amiga ( since a Sun is "better" than an Amiga )?
--
Tim Smith       sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim || ima!ism780!tim || ihnp4!cithep!tim
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282361 is a reply to message #282125] Wed, 22 January 1986 03:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mykes is currently offline  mykes
Messages: 45
Registered: January 1986
Karma: 0
Member
Article-I.D.: 3comvax.374
Posted: Wed Jan 22 03:01:07 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 24-Jan-86 08:30:48 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <402@tekig5.UUCP> <1302@sdcsvax.UUCP> <635@ark.UUCP> <355@3comvax.UUCP> <279@ism780c.UUCP>
Reply-To: mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz)
Distribution: net
Organization: 3Com Corp; Mountain View, CA
Lines: 25
Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:1679 net.micro.atari:2527


IBM and Atari and Apple do not have Jay Miner, I rest my case.  IBM or Apple
might be able to do a quick and dirty imitation of the Amiga at a huge
cost, but they won't until they feel the pressure of large Amiga quantities
in their market.

If you have $2000 to spend, ae you going to shop at K-Mart or a computer
store?  You might educate yourself first, then go to the Computer store
(why do I have the feeling I will see flames about this?)

As long as Amiga and the ST are so wide apart in price, they will not
compete with eachother - but together they might destroy the Mac.

By the way, (no offense intended) it seems to me that the people who ae
so pro ST like to exercise the left half of their brains while the pro
Amiga people exercise the right half.  To the left-half people, monochrome
text in high resolution is appealing.  To the right-half people, high-resolution
color, speech, audio, etc. is appealing.  To each his own, but as a right
brainer, I have a monochrome hi-res (640x400) AT&T PC to satisfy my left
brain, and an Amiga, Commodore 64, and Atari 800 to satisfy my right.


mike schwartz (sorry for the typos, this keyboard sux)

[left-brain = scientific uses, right-brain = artistic/creative uses]
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282363 is a reply to message #282125] Wed, 22 January 1986 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
keithd is currently offline  keithd
Messages: 73
Registered: May 2013
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Member
Article-I.D.: cadovax.998
Posted: Wed Jan 22 17:58:19 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 24-Jan-86 09:18:36 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <26600016@ccvaxa>
Reply-To: keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle)
Organization: CONTEL CADO Systems, Torrance, CA
Lines: 13

In article <26600016@ccvaxa> preece@ccvaxa.UUCP writes:
 > I think the Amiga is a pretty nifty machine, with a lot of
 > potential.  Calling it a business machine is ludicrous.
 > --
 > scott preece

Ok, has anyone figured out an appropriate name for it?  What about
the Mac or Atari?  I've got it, how about 'specialty computers'.

Keith Doyle
#  {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd
#  cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282369 is a reply to message #282125] Thu, 23 January 1986 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tim is currently offline  tim
Messages: 230
Registered: February 2013
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Senior Member
Article-I.D.: ism780c.308
Posted: Thu Jan 23 16:05:05 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 24-Jan-86 22:10:49 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <402@tekig5.UUCP> <1302@sdcsvax.UUCP> <635@ark.UUCP> <355@3comvax.UUCP> <279@ism780c.UUCP> <374@3comvax.U
Reply-To: tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith)
Distribution: net
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Santa Monica, CA
Lines: 46
Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:1687 net.micro.atari:2540

In article <374@3comvax.UUCP> mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) writes:
 > 
 > IBM and Atari and Apple do not have Jay Miner, I rest my case.  IBM or Apple
 > might be able to do a quick and dirty imitation of the Amiga at a huge
 > cost, but they won't until they feel the pressure of large Amiga quantities
 > in their market.
 > 
Are you claiming Jay Miner is the only competent engineer in the computer
biz?  If so, I think you are resting more than your case! :-)

I was not suggesting that IBM or Apple would do a quick and dirty Amiga
imitation if the Amiga starts to hurt their sales.  I was suggesting
that they already are working on machines that are as state of the
art as Amiga.

Take the case of IBM.  They ( at least this is what I have heard, it
may be totally wrong ) spend lots of money on keeping up with the
leading edge of technology.  For example, IBM did one of the very
early RISC machines, yet it was only this week that they announced
a RISC based product.  Similarly, it is almost certain that they
already have all the technology to do an Amiga class machine.  To
actually market such a machine would not be a quick and dirty job,
it would simply be a matter of putting some stuff they already have
in one box and selling it.

Heck, even Mattel was close to having an Amiga type computer before they
got out of computers ( the machine that would have come after the
Intellevision III was going to be 68k based, and have graphics
and sound capabilities similar to those of the Amiga ).

 > If you have $2000 to spend, ae you going to shop at K-Mart or a computer
 > store?  You might educate yourself first, then go to the Computer store
 > (why do I have the feeling I will see flames about this?)
 > 
I would allocated about $100 of the $2000 to go to the local magazine
shop, and get a lot of computer magazines.  If I found a machine that
met my needs, and sold for a lot less than the other machines that
meet my needs, I would start to look for it.

It might not occur to me to go to K-Mart and look for it, so I might end
up purchasing the expensive machine from a computer store.  But if I
became aware of the K-Mart machine, I would go and buy it there.  I see
no reason to become stupid just because I have $1900 in my pocket :-).

--
Tim Smith       sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim || ima!ism780!tim || ihnp4!cithep!tim
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282376 is a reply to message #282125] Thu, 23 January 1986 18:57 Go to previous message
tomp is currently offline  tomp
Messages: 5
Registered: January 1986
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Article-I.D.: amiga.602
Posted: Thu Jan 23 18:57:19 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 24-Jan-86 22:27:37 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <402@tekig5.UUCP> <1302@sdcsvax.UUCP> <635@ark.UUCP> <355@3comvax.UUCP> <279@ism780c.UUCP> <374@3comvax.UUCP>
Reply-To: tomp@stella.UUCP (Tom Pohorsky)
Distribution: net
Organization: Commodore-Amiga Inc., 983 University Ave #D, Los Gatos CA 95030
Lines: 13
Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:1695 net.micro.atari:2543

In article <374@3comvax.UUCP> mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) writes:

 > If you have $2000 to spend, ae you going to shop at K-Mart or a computer
 > store?  You might educate yourself first, then go to the Computer store
 > (why do I have the feeling I will see flames about this?)

  You have a feeling you will see flames about this because this type of
remark is irrational, fitting somewhere between political and religous.
Even as a [obviously biased] Commodore-Amiga employee, I wince when I see
this kind of fuel-to-the-[pointless-carnage]-fire remark.
  You have contributed alot of good rational info to this newsgroup. It's
beneath your dignity to get religous in this group. Keep up the GOOD work.
  tomp.
Re: New Atari Toy Computer [message #282385 is a reply to message #282125] Thu, 23 January 1986 09:50 Go to previous message
hamilton is currently offline  hamilton
Messages: 57
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Member
Article-I.D.: uiucuxc.148600038
Posted: Thu Jan 23 09:50:00 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 25-Jan-86 09:01:01 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP>
Lines: 23
Nf-ID: #R:sbcs.UUCP:37:uiucuxc:148600038:000:1035
Nf-From: uiucuxc.CSO.UIUC.EDU!hamilton    Jan 23 08:50:00 1986


 >> because it has a higher price than the ST, just that people who are
 >> going to spend $2000 for a computer will not even consider the ST, or
 >> any other less expensive computer.
 > 
 > Do you have any evidence for this?  I have never known anyone to put
 > a lower limit on what they are willing to spend, just an upper limit.

    speaking for myself, i do it all the time.  for example, if i need
tools, i'll go to (eg) Sears and pay extra for Craftsman or somesuch,
instead of buying a $19.95 wonderwrench from the likes of Ronco.  several
of the grocery stores in my area have extensive "generic" product sections,
but i don't usually use them much.  in short, i tend to suspect deals that
look "to good to be true".  note that i'm NOT commenting on the ST per se,
only the consumer psychology.

	wayne hamilton
	U of Il and US Army Corps of Engineers CERL
UUCP:	{ihnp4,pur-ee,convex}!uiucdcs!uiucuxc!hamilton
ARPA:	hamilton@uiucuxc.cso.uiuc.edu
CSNET:	hamilton%uiucuxc@uiuc.csnet
USMail:	Box 476, Urbana, IL 61801
Phone:	(217)333-8703
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