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MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27606] Fri, 07 December 2012 16:34 Go to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Hello!

I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 9800
Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). My main
motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a larger
monitor at full resolution. I didn't really look for the 9800 Pro, but I
found it at a good price, and the info I found indicated that it would work
in the MDD. One salient point if you're not familiar with the 9800 pro -
apparently the AGP bus doesn't provide enough power for it, so it requires
a secondary power connection from a molex connector, using a splitter from
one of the hard drive power connectors.

In fact, the card does work, more or less. I get great display at 1920 x
1080. But there are two problems. If I shut down the machine and then try
to power it back on, one of two things happens: (1) it won't power on at
all. I press the power button, and literally nothing happens. (2) It will
power up and give me the boot chime, but then show in the center of the
screen a small picture/icon of the Radeon card, with a little ATI logo in
the corner, and in the upper right corner of the graphic a flashing red
molex connector and its wires, signifying that it's not getting power from
the molex. Of course, it was working and getting said power before I shut
it down, so something changed on shutdown, it would seem.

The "solution" I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and gave
me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with the power
button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this) unplug the machine
for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up
normally.

Furthermore, if I try to restart, I invariably get the flashing molex
graphic. I then have to manually shut down, unplug, replug, and power on.

The machine seems to sleep OK. I can put it to sleep and wake it, seemingly
regardless of how long it has been asleep, with no problem.

When this first happened, I thought perhaps a cable or something was
physically pressing the motherboard reset button (it is pretty cramped in
there). But no, the button is clear.

I never had these problems with the stock Radeon 9000 ADC card.

So, what is going on? Something seems to be messing with the card's ability
to get power. Is something interfering somehow with the machine's power
management?

I'd like to use the 9800, but if I can't properly start up and restart,
that's a pretty big PITA. Is the 9800 just too much card for the MDD?

Is there some solution to this problem that will allow me to use the 9800?
Or should I stick with the 9000 or another ADC card?

Thanks!

Rob J.

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27786 is a reply to message #27606] Fri, 07 December 2012 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kris Tilford is currently offline  Kris Tilford
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Registered: August 2012
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Isn't this the tape pins 3 & 11 issue?:
<http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11>

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27894 is a reply to message #27786] Fri, 07 December 2012 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Kris:

My understanding is that the "tape on pins 3 &11 issue" applies to PC
versions of the 9800 card flashed over to Mac, not to *original* Mac
edition cards. This is an original Mac edition card.

Cards that have the pin issue will cause the machine to not power up *at all
* if the pins are not covered. My machine will power up with the card
installed. The problem is on restarts, or a power up after a shutdown
(unless you unplug and replug the machine).

Furthermore, the flashing red molex graphic indicates that the card is
somehow not getting power, or it thinks it isn't.

I may, if I can't get anywhere in another way, try the pin thing. But I
don't think that's the problem.

Thanks,

Rob J.



On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:50:10 PM UTC-5, Kris Tilford wrote:
>

> Isn't this the tape pins 3 & 11 issue?:

> <http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11>

>


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27895 is a reply to message #27894] Fri, 07 December 2012 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kris Tilford is currently offline  Kris Tilford
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Registered: August 2012
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On Dec 7, 2012, at 10:37 PM, frrob wrote:

> My understanding is that the "tape on pins 3 &11 issue" applies to

> PC versions of the 9800 card flashed over to Mac, not to original

> Mac edition cards. This is an original Mac edition card.


I don't think the pin 3 & 11 issues was PC vs. Mac cards, I thought it
was using AGPx8 cards in AGPx4 Macs where the Macs were made OEM for
ADC Mac cards and pins 3 & 11 were appropriated by Apple for ADC power
that somehow screwed up AGPx8 cards in these ADC Macs? I could be wrong?

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27896 is a reply to message #27606] Sat, 08 December 2012 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Valter Prahlad is currently offline  Valter Prahlad
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Registered: September 2012
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Member
Il giorno 07/12/12 22:34, frrob ha scritto:

> The "solution" I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and gave

> me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with the power

> button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this) unplug the machine

> for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up

> normally.

Well, it seems having to do with "hot" (re)start.
Letting it cool down (even just a bit), seems helping;but I cannot think
what heat has to do with it.
Unplugging might "reset" something or let a memory chip lose its content;
but, again, doesn't make much sense.

Only thing I can think of, when the Mac is starting, the 9800 could
"compete" with the hard drive (on the same power line) for power, since hard
drives need the most power when spinning up; once it has started, the
"shared" power is enough for both to work.
What else is connected on the same power line where you put the splitter?
Did you try to put the splitter on the optical drive's power line? (it
should not require power at boot).

> Is the 9800 just too much card for the MDD?

I think that 9800 Pro was made for G4 and G5 Macs, so it *should* work.

I wonder what could be wrong in your MDD's power "department".
Have you got many peripherals inside it (HDs, cards...) that are sucking
power? Maybe the power supply is overloaded.


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27903 is a reply to message #27606] Sat, 08 December 2012 04:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jesse StJohn is currently offline  Jesse StJohn
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
hi, fwiw, years before i owned a powermac, i used slackware
exclusively on a tyan tiger dual palomino board with 4 gigs of ram and
had a firegl card that needed a molex connection for extra power to
the gpu. now all of the finery of my memory is gone from this
experience, but the quirks from this setup left an imprint. pc's
experience this phenomenon as well, and as i recall you should always
plug the molex connector of any optical drives, soundcards, gpu's
(anything using one)on different plugs than the hdd. something about
how they dont play nice sticks out. i had this issue as well until i
had figured it out. you'll need to segregate the hard drive to its own
power source, and no there is not route around this. when the
computer posts and boots is similar to a automobile, using more
fuel(or in this case, electricity)upon start up than during normal
operation. the observation of the mdd needing a bit to cool to start
with gpu is somewhat troubling. it seems as though your P/S is on its
way out as well. just sayin.................
On Dec 7, 2012, at 3:34 PM, frrob wrote:

> Hello!

>

> I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a

> Radeon 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000

> 68M (ADC). My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M

> card, so as to run a larger monitor at full resolution. I didn't

> really look for the 9800 Pro, but I found it at a good price, and

> the info I found indicated that it would work in the MDD. One

> salient point if you're not familiar with the 9800 pro - apparently

> the AGP bus doesn't provide enough power for it, so it requires a

> secondary power connection from a molex connector, using a splitter

> from one of the hard drive power connectors.

>

> In fact, the card does work, more or less. I get great display at

> 1920 x 1080. But there are two problems. If I shut down the machine

> and then try to power it back on, one of two things happens: (1) it

> won't power on at all. I press the power button, and literally

> nothing happens. (2) It will power up and give me the boot chime,

> but then show in the center of the screen a small picture/icon of

> the Radeon card, with a little ATI logo in the corner, and in the

> upper right corner of the graphic a flashing red molex connector and

> its wires, signifying that it's not getting power from the molex. Of

> course, it was working and getting said power before I shut it down,

> so something changed on shutdown, it would seem.

>

> The "solution" I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and

> gave me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with

> the power button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this)

> unplug the machine for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in.

> Then it will start up normally.

>

> Furthermore, if I try to restart, I invariably get the flashing

> molex graphic. I then have to manually shut down, unplug, replug,

> and power on.

>

> The machine seems to sleep OK. I can put it to sleep and wake it,

> seemingly regardless of how long it has been asleep, with no problem.

>

> When this first happened, I thought perhaps a cable or something was

> physically pressing the motherboard reset button (it is pretty

> cramped in there). But no, the button is clear.

>

> I never had these problems with the stock Radeon 9000 ADC card.

>

> So, what is going on? Something seems to be messing with the card's

> ability to get power. Is something interfering somehow with the

> machine's power management?

>

> I'd like to use the 9800, but if I can't properly start up and

> restart, that's a pretty big PITA. Is the 9800 just too much card

> for the MDD?

>

> Is there some solution to this problem that will allow me to use the

> 9800? Or should I stick with the 9000 or another ADC card?

>

> Thanks!

>

> Rob J.

>

>

> --

> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a

> group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a

> particular focus on Power Macs.

> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our

> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml

> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27904 is a reply to message #27903] Sat, 08 December 2012 05:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mac User #330250 is currently offline  Mac User #330250
Messages: 83
Registered: August 2012
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Member
---------- Original message ----------
Subject: Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Date: Saturday, 08. December 2012
From: "Jesse St.John" <jesselorenstjohn@gmail.com>
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> […] you'll need to segregate the hard drive to its own

> power source, and no there is not route around this.

> […] it seems as though your P/S is on its

> way out as well. […]


I’ve immediately had the same thought.

My guess is that the power from the PSU—at this very molex connector—does not
provide enough power for the HDD and the graphics card on start-up. The HDD
requires a lot more power on spin-up compared to its running state, and the
graphics card may as well draw more power on start-up than when running.

Try a different molex. I ususally use the one from the optical drive for the
splitter. You may find an unused molex connector to use for the graphics card
exclusively, or—if it is too short—use the splitter only to extend it.

The second thought is that maybe the PSU itself isn’t capable of providing
enought power for all of the components. And: warmed-up components may draw
more power.


Cheers,
Andreas aka Mac User #330250

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27915 is a reply to message #27904] Sat, 08 December 2012 06:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank Dutra is currently offline  Frank Dutra
Messages: 12
Registered: September 2012
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Junior Member
>

> The second thought is that maybe the PSU itself isn't capable of providing

> enought power for all of the components. And: warmed-up components may draw

> more power.

>


FWIW I had the same problem when updating my Mystic to the flashed
version of a 9800 pro card (taped pins). The general consensus found
by browsing internet forums was that there just wasn't enough power
in the OEM PSU (360 watt?) to handle everything (2 internal SATA, 2
ATA drives, DVD drive, and 9800 card). This thought was reinforced by
the fact that only one of the SATA drives would boot up, but work
fine with the other disconnected, or with the original card
re-installed.

As fate would have it my 10 year old OEM PSU failed shortly after
installing the card,,, perhaps it was on it's way out anyway? Problem
solved by replacing it with a 500 watt PC PSU, though I have had some
intermittent sleep issues (crashes), presumably from the PC PSU not
having a 28 volt standby voltage lead into the motherboard, which
again presumably could be corrected by adding one independently or
other hacks, which I haven't felt compelled to tackle.

Replacing the PSU with a PC version is not for the faint of heart as
it involves rewiring 22 output leads to the corresponding correct
voltage inputs on the motherboard, and possible mounting issues, and
may not be feasible with other G4 models.


--
Frank Dutra

PO Box 3402
Nantucket MA 02584

<mailto: fdutra1@gmail.com>

Voice: (508) 292-1528
FAX: (815) 377-2407


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27949 is a reply to message #27606] Sat, 08 December 2012 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Stewart is currently offline  Wayne Stewart
Messages: 292
Registered: September 2012
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Senior Member
If it is a failing or marginal power supply you could try removing other
cards and running the hard drives off an external power supply. Then if it
does reboot when hot, you'll know it's your power supply. If it still
doesn't then maybe there's something wrong with the video card.

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27950 is a reply to message #27949] Sat, 08 December 2012 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Thanks everyone, for all the feedback and suggestions.

I will try taking the power off the optical drive connectors next, and see
what happens. I have the molex for the 9800 running off the hard drive
connector for the drive cage under the optical bay, where I have two SCSI
drives (RAID).

As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one
empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not.

Regarding heat as the issue, I'm not so sure. According to iStat, the
processor temps hover around 49 degrees C. I've been checking it from time
to time, sometimes after doing more processor-intensive tasks, and I've
never seen a temp over 50 C. It seems to me that that's an acceptable temp
for the processor.

Thanks!

Rob J.



On Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:18:20 PM UTC-5, Wayne Stewart wrote:
>

> If it is a failing or marginal power supply you could try removing other

> cards and running the hard drives off an external power supply. Then if it

> does reboot when hot, you'll know it's your power supply. If it still

> doesn't then maybe there's something wrong with the video card.

>

>


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27951 is a reply to message #27606] Sat, 08 December 2012 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Gerome is currently offline  Richard Gerome
Messages: 8
Registered: August 2012
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Junior Member
body{font-family: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-c olor: #ffffff;color: black;}
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;From my knowledge on the PC cards you need to tape the #3 and #11 pin and the rom needs to flashed for it to work... I plug one in on an old G4 and it didn't boot up at all... Now I never heard or knew of a MAC 9800??? If that is what it is does this card have a fan on it? Maybe if it does it might not be spinning or the heat sink fins are packed with dust and dirt? This was the problem with my wife's PC and I ended up putting that 9800 card in her computer with a new fan and that problem simular to what you are having went away!!! I don't know if anyone else may have posted about this because I only read a few of the posts here??? &nbsp; &nbsp;
-----Original Message-----

From: frrob

Sent: Dec 7, 2012 4:34 PM

To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

Subject: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card



Hello!

I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 9800
Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). My main
motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a larger
monitor at full resolution. I didn't really look for the 9800 Pro, but I
found it at a good price, and the info I found indicated that it would work
in the MDD. One salient point if you're not familiar with the 9800 pro -
apparently the AGP bus doesn't provide enough power for it, so it requires
a secondary power connection from a molex connector, using a splitter from
one of the hard drive power connectors.

In fact, the card does work, more or less. I get great display at 1920 x
1080. But there are two problems. If I shut down the machine and then try
to power it back on, one of two things happens: (1) it won't power on at
all. I press the power button, and literally nothing happens. (2) It will
power up and give me the boot chime, but then show in the center of the
screen a small picture/icon of the Radeon card, with a little ATI logo in
the corner, and in the upper right corner of the graphic a flashing red
molex connector and its wires, signifying that it's not getting power from
the molex. Of course, it was working and getting said power before I shut
it down, so something changed on shutdown, it would seem.

The "solution" I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and gave
me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with the power
button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this) unplug the machine
for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up
normally.

Furthermore, if I try to restart, I invariably get the flashing molex
graphic. I then have to manually shut down, unplug, replug, and power on.

The machine seems to sleep OK. I can put it to sleep and wake it, seemingly
regardless of how long it has been asleep, with no problem.

When this first happened, I thought perhaps a cable or something was
physically pressing the motherboard reset button (it is pretty cramped in
there). But no, the button is clear.

I never had these problems with the stock Radeon 9000 ADC card.

So, what is going on? Something seems to be messing with the card's ability
to get power. Is something interfering somehow with the machine's power
management?

I'd like to use the 9800, but if I can't properly start up and restart,
that's a pretty big PITA. Is the 9800 just too much card for the MDD?

Is there some solution to this problem that will allow me to use the 9800?
Or should I stick with the 9000 or another ADC card?

Thanks!

Rob J.

--
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--- Dr. David R. Hawkins






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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27960 is a reply to message #27949] Sat, 08 December 2012 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mac User #330250 is currently offline  Mac User #330250
Messages: 83
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Member
---------- Original message ----------
Subject: Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Date: Saturday, 08. December 2012
From: Wayne Stewart <waynejstewart@gmail.com>
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> If it is a failing or marginal power supply you could try removing other

> cards and running the hard drives off an external power supply. Then if it

> does reboot when hot, you'll know it's your power supply. If it still

> doesn't then maybe there's something wrong with the video card.


You could also take the opportunity to replace your 4 IDE hard drives with 1
SATA drive or even 1 SSD SATA drive. Both solutions will draw less power.

All you need is an IDE to SATA adapter, like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/HDE-SATA-Drive-Interface-Adapter/dp/B0 02Y2NI4M

or this one:

http://www.startech.com/HDD/Adapters/25in-and-35in-40-Pin-Ma le-IDE-to-SATA-
Adapter-Converter~IDE2SAT

You’ll propably find similar products on eBay or even at a local store nearby.

One HDD will definitely draw less power than 4 HDDs. And with modern SATA-II
(3 GB/s) drives you can definitely use a green series that is designed be
energy efficient, because the internal UltraATA/133 IDE bus is even slower than
a slow SATA drive, so there won’t be a benefit from choosing a fast SATA drive
anyway.

My recommendation:
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Intellipower-Desktop-
WD15EADS/dp/B0021L9HE6

Two things should be considered though:
1) PowerPCs use the APM partitioning scheme. Therefore the limit is 2 TB.
2) Modern SATA HDDs use 4096k sectors (WD: “Advanced Format”). APM uses 512k.

Since Mac OS prior to 10.6.x isn’t aware of 4096k sectors, disks that use it
will ultimately be formated wrongly and thus may suffer from a significant
performace impact.
(AFAIK the metioned WD Caviar Green WD15EADS is still 512k.)
Weather 4096k sectors will actually reduce performance further than the
already existing limit due to the speed of the IDE bus is far beyond my
experience and knowledge.


BUT, before you try that, see if your MDD Power Mac runs stable with the
Radoeon 9800 if you only use one HDD. If it does, this may be a convenient way
to go.

Cheers,
Andreas aka Mac User #330250

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27961 is a reply to message #27960] Sat, 08 December 2012 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mac User #330250 is currently offline  Mac User #330250
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---------- Original message ----------
Subject: Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Date: Saturday, 08. December 2012
From: "Mac User #330250" <macuser330250@gmx.net>
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> Modern SATA HDDs use 4096k sectors (WD: “Advanced Format”). APM uses 512k.


It is of course
4096 bytes i.e. 4k sectors
and
512 bytes sectors,

NOT 4096k/512k… such a nonsense…

Sorry,
Andreas aka Mac User #330250

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27962 is a reply to message #27950] Sat, 08 December 2012 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mac User #330250 is currently offline  Mac User #330250
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---------- Original message ----------
Subject: Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Date: Saturday, 08. December 2012
From: frrob <frrob@earthlink.net>
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> Regarding heat as the issue, I'm not so sure. According to iStat, the

> processor temps hover around 49 degrees C. I've been checking it from time

> to time, sometimes after doing more processor-intensive tasks, and I've

> never seen a temp over 50 C. It seems to me that that's an acceptable temp

> for the processor.


The processor temperature is okay. I have a 1.42 GHz MDD and its CPUs are
around 65°C all the time and it is running stable.

However, the temperature may influence how much power a specific device draws
from the PSU, and also how much power the PSU can provide. It may well be that
a component requires less power when at room temperature. Once warmed up (at a
higher than room temperature, which will very highly from component to
component) it may require more… Talking about components such as PCI cards,
and HDDs. You can also think at a very low level, like capacitors, inductors,
ICs and such…

BTW, waking from sleep (suspend to RAM) initiates a different sequence of
powering up, which is propably the reason why you don’t experience this
problem then.


Cheers,
Andreas aka Mac User #330250

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #27968 is a reply to message #27951] Sat, 08 December 2012 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peter is currently offline  peter
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I have one of these in my Gig Ethernet. Just be warned, it is sensitive to higher temps. Make sure you are cleaning out dust on a regular basis. Once you get the power issue sorted, any future video issues, your first step should be to check airflow, and temps.

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28066 is a reply to message #27950] Sun, 09 December 2012 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Valter Prahlad is currently offline  Valter Prahlad
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Il giorno 08/12/12 19:42, frrob ha scritto:

> As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one

> empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not.

IMHO, four drives, three PCI cards (your MDD should have 4 slots) AND the
Radeon 9800... Equals too much power for the standard 360W (or 400W) power
supply.
No surprise it could be "chocking"...

As someone else said, try with just one HD connected (and the 9800 connected
to the optical drive power line).
If it works... You know where the problem is. :-)


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28067 is a reply to message #28066] Sun, 09 December 2012 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Hello again everyone!

Again, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.

Sooner or later, when you keep banging your head against a wall, you reach
a point of saying "f*%k it. It's not worth the trouble." I am about at that
point. I have spent almost all my free time for the last 2 days farting
around with this thing.

As you might gather from the above, I have not succeeded in solving the
problem.

I plugged the molex splitter into the optical drive power connector, and
disconnected one of the 4 hard drives. This did not solve the problem.
However, using the optical bay power lead made for a more efficient cable
run to the 9800 card, so I will keep that if I get the card working
properly. I then disconnected another hard drive and removed the unused PCI
card. Still no joy.

Thinking the problem might be driver/software related, I installed the
August '95 ATI ROM update. No effect on the problem.

Then I taped the infamous 3 & 11 pins. I double and triple checked with a
magnifying glass to make sure those pins were completely covered, and no
other pins were. This too did not solve the problem.

So, I am down to the Leopard boot drive (an OWC 115 GB SSD), and my SCSI
raid set (2 cheetah LVD drives). I assume that the SSD draws less power
than a standard drive? I am down to 2 pci cards: a USB 2.0 card, and the
ATTO UL3D that drives the RAID set.

The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have
suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and the
USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I
don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty
much need USB 2.0.

The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an Apple
ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard
drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power
from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power be
some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800?

The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog if it can't get enough
power to run when I'm only running 2 PCI cards and 3 hard drives (one of
them an SSD).

And another thing, another "con" to the whole project: When I do not have
an ADC monitor plugged in to the MDD, the fans do not spin down to a slower
speed after startup, and cycle according to use. They run full blast
constantly, giving the well-known "MDD wind tunnel effect". This happens
even when I connect the stock 9000 card to a non-ADC monitor using the DVI
port. This is very annoying to me, and I'm not sure if I could put up with
that indefinitely.

It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor connected
to it.

So, I am back to the stock 9000 card for now. I have to be away for a
couple of days, so will have to come back to this when I return.

Thanks again,

Rob J.



On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:13:13 PM UTC-5, Valter Viglietti wrote:
>

> Il giorno 08/12/12 19:42, frrob ha scritto:

>

>> As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one

>> empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not.

> IMHO, four drives, three PCI cards (your MDD should have 4 slots) AND the

> Radeon 9800... Equals too much power for the standard 360W (or 400W) power

> supply.

> No surprise it could be "chocking"...

>

> As someone else said, try with just one HD connected (and the 9800

> connected

> to the optical drive power line).

> If it works... You know where the problem is. :-)

>

>

>


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28068 is a reply to message #27606] Sun, 09 December 2012 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Tom:

Thanks for the reply.

I recall that on some machines, a bad or marginal PRAM battery can
cause all kinds of goofiness.

But, I am not losing dates/times, etc., which is the classic symptom
of a bad battery.

However, I will try the new PRAM battery next.


Thanks,

Rob J.



On Dec 8, 2012, at 12:19 AM, Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net wrote:

> On 12/7/12, frrob wrote:

>

>> I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8.... If I shut down the

>> machine and then try to power it back on, one of two things

>> happens: (1) it won't power on at all.... The "solution" I have

>> found...unplug the machine for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug

>> it back in. Then it will start up normally.

>

> I think that same problem in my case is caused by a dead battery

> which I haven't taken the time to replace.

> --

> T.T.


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28069 is a reply to message #28067] Sun, 09 December 2012 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Valter Prahlad is currently offline  Valter Prahlad
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Il giorno 10/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto:

> The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have

> suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and the

> USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I

> don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty

> much need USB 2.0.

I agree; this suggestion was not meant to make you run an "handicapped" Mac
;-) but to make absolutely sure the problem was about not enough power.
Once you knew it was that (or not), you could think about something else.

From what you reported, anyway, I don't think the problem is lack of power.
But IMO is worth making the above check, just to be sure.

> The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an Apple

> ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard

> drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power

> from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power be

> some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800?

Yes and no. A 23" monitor should draw around 40W; the 9800 obviously needs
more.

> The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog

From what I gathered on the Net, it should draw around 75W under normal
conditions (maybe more when running 3D intensive applications).

> It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor connected

> to it.

Maybe something got "stuck" in the power mangement unit.
Did you try to reset the PMU? ( Power Management Unit)
See Apple's page:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1939

(knock on wood, it might have something to do with the 9800 issue as well;
worth a try)


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28073 is a reply to message #27951] Mon, 10 December 2012 01:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No No is currently offline  No No
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Hello Rob:

With no disrespect to anyone else's attempts to help, I have had
exactly the same problem on my MDD. It occurred after the same basic
scenario, adding a 9800 Pro (PC flashed with pins 3 and 11 taped up).
After 2 weeks it wouldn't start up or even give me the white LED light
when the button was pushed. The only way to make it start was to
unplug for 5-10 seconds then replug. If left unplugged for 10
minutes, I had to leave it plugged in for 15 minutes (not 10) then it
would restart. Auto power on/off would not work. I struggled with it
for years. The best solution was to leave it in sleep mode when ever
I would normally shut it down. Because of other problems indicative
of the Power Manager, hard disk corruption if automatic sleep was on
and other problems, I believe it was most likely a combination of the
Power Manager partly failing and a bad capacitor(s) in the power supply.

There is a company in New York that is on the web that will repair the
PS for about $85. Just use Google and type in "G4 MDD power supply
repair".

If you are interested in fixing it yourself, go to "www.Badcaps.net".
There is good advice and the experience of others who repaired MDD G4
power supplies. They are very helpful there.

Good luck, however, I finally gave up when I couldn't get good fresh
installs of OS 10.5. I bought a G5 and gave the G4 to Goodwill after
stripping it. The hard disks from the G4 had bad partitions (they had
been reformatted on the G4 several times) and had to be reformatted to
work properly on the G5 (with an ATA card)

Bob

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28074 is a reply to message #28069] Mon, 10 December 2012 01:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No No is currently offline  No No
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Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying.
About the full fan speed. Mine did that when I first got it (used).
The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it. I put new Arctic
Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight. It quieted
down.

Bob

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28092 is a reply to message #27606] Mon, 10 December 2012 07:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Lenington is currently offline  Charles Lenington
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On 12/7/12 15:34 PM, frrob wrote:
> Hello!

>

> I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon

> 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC).

> My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run


snip=======

Did you get a driver disk w/ it? If not there is on Lem swap.

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28191 is a reply to message #28092] Mon, 10 December 2012 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
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Flags:

I'll check the swap list for that driver. However, according to the ATI
website, Leopard has the most up-to-date driver for the 9800 in it already.

Thanks,

Rob J.



On Monday, December 10, 2012 7:35:30 AM UTC-5, flags wrote:
>

> On 12/7/12 15:34 PM, frrob wrote:

>> Hello!

>>

>> I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon

>> 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC).

>> My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run

>

> snip=======

>

> Did you get a driver disk w/ it? If not there is on Lem swap.

>


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28192 is a reply to message #28074] Mon, 10 December 2012 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
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Bob:

I'll check that heat sink and screws when I get back.

Thanks,

Rob J.


On Monday, December 10, 2012 1:58:59 AM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote:
>

> Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying.

> About the full fan speed. Mine did that when I first got it (used).

> The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it. I put new Arctic

> Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight. It quieted

> down.

>

> Bob

>


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28193 is a reply to message #28069] Mon, 10 December 2012 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Valter:

I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a "power hog" all right.

I had, by my own rough calculation, thought that the card might draw 45-50
watts. But I could see that 75 might well overtax the power supply.

Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are
400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is
the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what?

If the PSU is really the culprit, I would replace my 360 watt PSU with the
400 watt version before I repaired the 360 watt one.

Finally, I did reset the PMU, twice. I forgot to mention that. No effect on
the problem.

I'll let the group know what happens.

Thanks,

Rob J.



On Sunday, December 9, 2012 10:17:34 PM UTC-5, Valter Viglietti wrote:
>

> Il giorno 10/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto:

>

>> The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have

>> suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and

> the

>> USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I

>> don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty

>> much need USB 2.0.

> I agree; this suggestion was not meant to make you run an "handicapped"

> Mac

> ;-) but to make absolutely sure the problem was about not enough power.

> Once you knew it was that (or not), you could think about something else.

>

> From what you reported, anyway, I don't think the problem is lack of

> power.

> But IMO is worth making the above check, just to be sure.

>

>> The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an

> Apple

>> ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard

>> drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power

>> from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power

> be

>> some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800?

> Yes and no. A 23" monitor should draw around 40W; the 9800 obviously needs

> more.

>

>> The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog

> From what I gathered on the Net, it should draw around 75W under normal

> conditions (maybe more when running 3D intensive applications).

>

>> It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor

> connected

>> to it.

> Maybe something got "stuck" in the power mangement unit.

> Did you try to reset the PMU? ( Power Management Unit)

> See Apple's page:

> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1939

>

> (knock on wood, it might have something to do with the 9800 issue as well;

> worth a try)

>

>

>


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28194 is a reply to message #28067] Mon, 10 December 2012 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Devlin is currently offline  Peter Devlin
Messages: 13
Registered: December 2012
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Junior Member
On 10/12/2012 02:41, "frrob" <frrob@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hello again everyone!

>

> Again, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.

>

> Sooner or later, when you keep banging your head against a wall, you reach a

> point of saying "f*%k it. It's not worth the trouble." I am about at that

> point. I have spent almost all my free time for the last 2 days farting around

> with this thing.


The 'not connected' diagram is only supposed to show up when there is no
power to the card - so if the molex splitter is good and tests out with a hd
or an optical then the problem may lie with the molex socket on the card or
it's connections to the rest of the card - maybe a damaged trace or a
resistor missing.....

Pete


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28195 is a reply to message #28193] Mon, 10 December 2012 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Valter Prahlad is currently offline  Valter Prahlad
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Il giorno 11/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto:

> Valter:

>

> I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a "power hog" all right.

It was the most powerful card of its times... power always has a price. ;-)

> Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are

> 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is

> the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what?

AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs
had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W.
Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two PS
are interchangeable.

> My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a

> larger monitor at full resolution

I don't know about your 9000 card, but I think 64MB are more than enough to
drive high-res monitor and/or dual monitors (as long as the card has two
ports). I did run dual monitors (21" and 15") on a meager 32MB Geforce 2 MX.

Unless for "larger monitor" you mean a 30" display or such (that might
require a beefier card).


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28205 is a reply to message #28195] Tue, 11 December 2012 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Lenington is currently offline  Charles Lenington
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On 12/10/12 22:14 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote:
> Il giorno 11/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto:

>

>> Valter:

>>

>> I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a "power hog" all right.

> It was the most powerful card of its times... power always has a price. ;-)

>


If you can find an old AT power supply, they have a switch to power
on/off. I have in the past used one to power extra external hard drives
and fans for cooling the drives . Of course this requires leaving case
open, or cutting and splicing after running through a hole.

This dual 867 MDD has 2 hds under PS (400 watt), 2 HDs setting on top of
2 optical drives but belong under and from time to time up to 2 sata
drive loose outside case on a pci card, and a pci usb card. There is a
5" fan on top of processor heat sink and 2 1/2" fan hanging from airport
cage (both 12 volt DC). About a foot away I have 2 5" ac fans blowing at
MB. Also there is a fire dvdR burner and assorted firewire and/or usb
hard drives attached. I been starting to think it's time to power from
another source especially if I add more SATA and Firewire controllers.

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28206 is a reply to message #28192] Tue, 11 December 2012 02:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No No is currently offline  No No
Messages: 17
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Junior Member
Hello Rob:

I forgot to mention, the tightening sequence is important also:
Right front, Left rear, Left front, Right rear. The right rear is a
sheet metal mount from the case and can have a lot of variance in
height.

Bob

On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:32 PM, frrob wrote:

> Bob:

>

> I'll check that heat sink and screws when I get back.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Rob J.

>

>

> On Monday, December 10, 2012 1:58:59 AM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote:

> Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying.

> About the full fan speed. Mine did that when I first got it (used).

> The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it. I put new Arctic

> Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight. It quieted

> down.

>

> Bob

>

> --

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28233 is a reply to message #28205] Tue, 11 December 2012 06:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faithie999 is currently offline  faithie999
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i was going to suggest the same thing, if only for a last troubleshooting
step.

if you have either a spare PC power supply, or a PC that you can "borrow"
the power supply from temporarily, you could try powering the video card
from the separate power supply. assuming the borrowed PS doesn't have a
switch, google for the pinout for the 20 (or 24) pin connector, and see
which pins you need to short together to turn the PS on.

ken



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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28234 is a reply to message #28195] Tue, 11 December 2012 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Walther is currently offline  Jeff Walther
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On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti wrote:
>

>

>> Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there

> are

>> 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is

>> the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what?

> AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs

> had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W.

> Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two PS

> are interchangeable.

>


Are we sure these are different versions and not just another example of
what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600? In that older case, some times
the input wattage of the power supply was listed. Other times the output
wattage of the power supply was listed. Of course, the input wattage was
considerable higher back then. This sent a number of devoted modders
scurrying around hunting for the "higher power" supply, even though both
numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were simply
describing different qualities of the same object.

I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400. 90% efficiency is
perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would expect
from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not
certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W is the
output wattage of the MDD supplies.

Jeff Walther


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28265 is a reply to message #28234] Tue, 11 December 2012 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Jeff:

From photos of several of these PSUs (both 360 and 400 watt versions) for
sale on eBay, it seems pretty clear to me that these figures are output
wattage. From my rough calculations based on input figures on the same
PSUs, it would seem that the input wattage is between 700-800 watts.


Rob J.



On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:41:16 AM UTC-5, tr...@prismnet.com wrote:
>

>

>

> On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti wrote:

>>

>>

>>> Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there

>> are

>>> 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions?

>> Is

>>> the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what?

>> AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs

>> had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W.

>> Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two

>> PS

>> are interchangeable.

>>

>

> Are we sure these are different versions and not just another example of

> what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600? In that older case, some times

> the input wattage of the power supply was listed. Other times the output

> wattage of the power supply was listed. Of course, the input wattage was

> considerable higher back then. This sent a number of devoted modders

> scurrying around hunting for the "higher power" supply, even though both

> numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were simply

> describing different qualities of the same object.

>

> I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400. 90% efficiency is

> perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would expect

> from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not

> certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W is the

> output wattage of the MDD supplies.

>

> Jeff Walther

>

>


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MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28311 is a reply to message #27606] Tue, 11 December 2012 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gifutiger is currently offline  gifutiger
Messages: 9
Registered: December 2012
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Junior Member
Greetings,

If you need drivers you should be able to get them on ATI web page.
When I was using my G4 AGP Graphic 400 I need to install the drivers (I think there was2) before everything worked Okay.
Well my problem was, if the system went to sleep upon wake up the screen was scrambled, and the only way out was, Shutdown and restart.
But with the drivers installed sleep & wake up was good.

If you can't find the drivers let me know, I'm sure that I still have them.

Cheers

Harry

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9600 Pro or XT as alternative to 9800 (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior) [message #28357 is a reply to message #28265] Tue, 11 December 2012 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Greetings all!

On a related, but slightly different note:

What about using an ADC/DVI version of the 9600 (either the Pro or XT)
instead of the 9800? I have seen a number of them for sale on eBay. Since
they are ADC, they might play better with the MDD. Furthermore, they don't
appear to have the Molex secondary power connector, so that would be
another problem avoided. Do they not have the molex because they draw extra
power through the ADC plug on the motherboard, or do they just draw less
power?

I imagine I'd have to tape pins 3 & 11, but that's not a big deal.

With the 9600 XT or Pro, I'd still have hardware acceleration of Core Image
and Quartz Extreme.

Any potential pitfalls, or other thoughts on that?


Thanks,

Rob J.


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [message #28386 is a reply to message #27606] Wed, 12 December 2012 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael McMurtrey is currently offline  Michael McMurtrey
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Registered: December 2012
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For what it's worth, I recently installed a 256 MB Radeon 9600 (AGP)
in my MDD, which has two hard drives (both on the ATA bus) and have
had no problems whatsoever. System Profiler reports Core Image:
Hardware Accelerated and Quartz Extreme: Supported.

Michael McMurtrey
Carrollton, TX

On Dec 12, 2012, at 5:48 AM, g3-5-list@googlegroups.com wrote:

> Today's Topic Summary

> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list/topics

>

> MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [5 Updates]

> MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

> faithie999 <faithie999@hotmail.com> Dec 11 03:55AM -0800

>

> i was going to suggest the same thing, if only for a last

> troubleshooting

> step.

>

> if you have either a spare PC power supply, or a PC that you can

> "borrow"

> the power supply from temporarily, you could try powering the video

> card

> from the separate power supply. assuming the borrowed PS doesn't

> have a

> switch, google for the pinout for the 20 (or 24) pin connector, and

> see

> which pins you need to short together to turn the PS on.

>

> ken

>

> "trag@prismnet.com" <trag@prismnet.com> Dec 11 08:41AM -0800

>

> On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti

> wrote:

>> had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W.

>> Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if

> the two PS

>> are interchangeable.

>

> Are we sure these are different versions and not just another

> example of

> what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600? In that older case, some

> times

> the input wattage of the power supply was listed. Other times the

> output

> wattage of the power supply was listed. Of course, the input wattage

> was

> considerable higher back then. This sent a number of devoted modders

> scurrying around hunting for the "higher power" supply, even though

> both

> numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were

> simply

> describing different qualities of the same object.

>

> I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400. 90% efficiency is

> perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would

> expect

> from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not

> certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W

> is the

> output wattage of the MDD supplies.

>

> Jeff Walther

>

> frrob <frrob@earthlink.net> Dec 11 09:36AM -0800

>

> Jeff:

>

> From photos of several of these PSUs (both 360 and 400 watt

> versions) for

> sale on eBay, it seems pretty clear to me that these figures are

> output

> wattage. From my rough calculations based on input figures on the same

> PSUs, it would seem that the input wattage is between 700-800 watts.

>

>

> Rob J.

>

>

>

>

> gifutiger <gifutiger@gmail.com> Dec 11 04:57PM -0800

>

> Greetings,

>

> If you need drivers you should be able to get them on ATI web page.

> When I was using my G4 AGP Graphic 400 I need to install the drivers

> (I think there was2) before everything worked Okay.

> Well my problem was, if the system went to sleep upon wake up the

> screen was scrambled, and the only way out was, Shutdown and restart.

> But with the drivers installed sleep & wake up was good.

>

> If you can't find the drivers let me know, I'm sure that I still

> have them.

>

> Cheers

>

> Harry

>

> frrob <frrob@earthlink.net> Dec 11 12:13PM -0800

>

> Greetings all!

>

> On a related, but slightly different note:

>

> What about using an ADC/DVI version of the 9600 (either the Pro or XT)

> instead of the 9800? I have seen a number of them for sale on eBay.

> Since

> they are ADC, they might play better with the MDD. Furthermore, they

> don't

> appear to have the Molex secondary power connector, so that would be

> another problem avoided. Do they not have the molex because they

> draw extra

> power through the ADC plug on the motherboard, or do they just draw

> less

> power?

>

> I imagine I'd have to tape pins 3 & 11, but that's not a big deal.

>

> With the 9600 XT or Pro, I'd still have hardware acceleration of

> Core Image

> and Quartz Extreme.

>

> Any potential pitfalls, or other thoughts on that?

>

>

> Thanks,

>

> Rob J.

>

> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

> Group g3-5-list.

> You can post via email.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty message.

> For more options, visit this group.

>

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Re: 9600 Pro or XT as alternative to 9800 (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior) [message #28547 is a reply to message #28357] Wed, 12 December 2012 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Laughlin is currently offline  John Laughlin
Messages: 8
Registered: September 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member
A Mac flashed 9700 works fine, too. Been using one in my G4 Digital
Audio for at least two years, possibly three years. No pins taped on
it...

-J

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:13 PM, frrob <frrob@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Greetings all!

>

> On a related, but slightly different note:

>

> What about using an ADC/DVI version of the 9600 (either the Pro or XT)

> instead of the 9800? I have seen a number of them for sale on eBay. Since

> they are ADC, they might play better with the MDD. Furthermore, they don't

> appear to have the Molex secondary power connector, so that would be another

> problem avoided. Do they not have the molex because they draw extra power

> through the ADC plug on the motherboard, or do they just draw less power?

>

> I imagine I'd have to tape pins 3 & 11, but that's not a big deal.

>

> With the 9600 XT or Pro, I'd still have hardware acceleration of Core Image

> and Quartz Extreme.

>

> Any potential pitfalls, or other thoughts on that?

>

>

> Thanks,

>

> Rob J.

>

>

> --

> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for

> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power

> Macs.

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Re: 9600 Pro or XT as alternative to 9800 (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior) [message #28548 is a reply to message #28357] Wed, 12 December 2012 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Sciortino is currently offline  Alex Sciortino
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Registered: August 2012
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Member
I may be wrong, but my old 9600 would work with a G4. The 9600 is from a G5. The card is 8x but the Mac is 4x.

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Throwing in the towel (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior) [message #28634 is a reply to message #28548] Thu, 13 December 2012 15:05 Go to previous message
frrob is currently offline  frrob
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Hello again!

Well, I have given up on the 9800. I spent several hours again yesterday
trying unsuccessfully to get the MDD to boot "normally".

I finally removed *every* hard drive except the boot drive (OWC 115 GB
SSD), and every PCI card. No joy.

I replaced the PRAM battery - that didn't help either.

I even remove the tape from pins 3 & 11. No help there either.

In fact, I could only get the machine to boot without the flashing molex
warning once. Out of some 20 attempts to start the machine, on all but one
attempt, regardless of what I did, I got the flashing molex warning.

I tested continuity on all the molex splitter leads, and all were OK.

So, I'm guessing that there may be a defect in the card. Perhaps a cracked
trace, or something.

I will hang on to the card and see if it works if I ever get a G5. But for
now I am back to the 9000. I've purchased a 9600 XT on eBay. Perhaps I will
have better luck with that.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Rob J.



On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:16:52 AM UTC-5, Alex Sciortino wrote:
>

> I may be wrong, but my old 9600 would work with a G4. The 9600 is from a

> G5. The card is 8x but the Mac is 4x.


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