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Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #217080] Wed, 08 January 2014 23:44 Go to next message
Scott Holder is currently offline  Scott Holder
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Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around
to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it
so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten
farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll
see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera
and some studio lights...

Scott H.

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #217081 is a reply to message #217080] Wed, 08 January 2014 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dylan McDermond is currently offline  Dylan McDermond
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On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Scott Holder <scott@iamscott.net> wrote:

> I finally got around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac.

So, how many hours does it take to get through the boot process? ;-)

- Dylan

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #217086 is a reply to message #217081] Wed, 08 January 2014 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Holder is currently offline  Scott Holder
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On 1/8/2014 11:45 PM, Dylan McDermond wrote:
> On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Scott Holder <scott@iamscott.net> wrote:
>
>> I finally got around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac.
> So, how many hours does it take to get through the boot process? ;-)
>
> - Dylan
>

About three and a half days, give or take. More experimentation is needed.

Scott

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #217087 is a reply to message #217080] Thu, 09 January 2014 01:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marek Drvota is currently offline  Marek Drvota
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that's awesome !!

> On Jan 9, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Scott Holder <scott@iamscott.net> wrote:
>
> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera and some studio lights...
>
> Scott H.
>
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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #217097 is a reply to message #217080] Thu, 09 January 2014 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gregg Eshelman is currently offline  Gregg Eshelman
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On 1/8/2014 9:44 PM, Scott Holder wrote:
> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around
> to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it
> so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten
> farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll
> see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera
> and some studio lights...

Waiting three days for a computer to boot, that's dedication to an
experiment, or something... ;)

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #217098 is a reply to message #217097] Thu, 09 January 2014 05:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
William Meek is currently offline  William Meek
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Is it possible to complile the Darwin kernel for the 68k chipset?

This would cut out the PearPC middle, might take a day and a half to
boot... :)


On 9 January 2014 10:42, Gregg Eshelman <g_alan_e@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 1/8/2014 9:44 PM, Scott Holder wrote:
>
>> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around
>> to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it
>> so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten
>> farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll
>> see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera
>> and some studio lights...
>>
>
> Waiting three days for a computer to boot, that's dedication to an
> experiment, or something... ;)
>
>
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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218476 is a reply to message #217098] Fri, 10 January 2014 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TT is currently offline  TT
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Really amazing Scott! Thanks for sharing. Would the Linux distro you
created be useful for people to use for other purposes? I still wonder
about someone making updates to A/UX to get some more modern web apps
going, though it may not be possible to make them very usable on the
ancient hardware, especially without a ton of work. Maybe having some
seeds germinate with a time lapse would give an interesting contrast to the
slow boot process. =)

-tt

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218477 is a reply to message #218476] Fri, 10 January 2014 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jonathan Morton is currently offline  Jonathan Morton
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And an old flip clock - one of the big ones with a calendar built in!

Once upon a time, I installed Gentoo Linux on a 25MHz 486 by bootstrapping
it from Stage 1. This involved compiling the system libraries and toolchain
twice, and took about two weeks to complete. The system is bigger and would
take much longer to build these days.

- Jonathan Morton
On 10 Jan 2014 22:14, "TT" <tamayo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Really amazing Scott! Thanks for sharing. Would the Linux distro you
> created be useful for people to use for other purposes? I still wonder
> about someone making updates to A/UX to get some more modern web apps
> going, though it may not be possible to make them very usable on the
> ancient hardware, especially without a ton of work. Maybe having some
> seeds germinate with a time lapse would give an interesting contrast to the
> slow boot process. =)
>
> -tt
>
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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218478 is a reply to message #217080] Fri, 10 January 2014 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Derek Morton is currently offline  Derek Morton
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Ahhhh... Danamania... I wonder what she is up to these days?

I am not sure I see the point in this exercise, though a great deal of my ideas are likely considered fruitless by most.

How large is the image you are running it from? You mentioned possibly tweaking some of the settings - Perhaps having activity monitor autostart might help you see if there is anything going on (and cpu usage). Do you think much of the slow execution was due to network speed? Perhaps on a 950 with a nice fast hard drive... Big display... Over-clocked...

I know our current machines are faster than older ones, but I really never thought the PPCs were THAT much faster than the 68Ks... 3 days to boot?!?! LOL

Derek

On Jan 8, 2014, at 10:44 PM, Scott Holder wrote:

> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera and some studio lights...
>
> Scott H.

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218479 is a reply to message #218478] Fri, 10 January 2014 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jonathan Morton is currently offline  Jonathan Morton
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Part of the speed difference will be from emulation, of course.

- Jonathan Morton

On 10 Jan 2014 22:57, "Derek Morton" <thespif@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Ahhhh... Danamania... I wonder what she is up to these days?
>
> I am not sure I see the point in this exercise, though a great deal of my
ideas are likely considered fruitless by most.
>
> How large is the image you are running it from? You mentioned possibly
tweaking some of the settings - Perhaps having activity monitor autostart
might help you see if there is anything going on (and cpu usage). Do you
think much of the slow execution was due to network speed? Perhaps on a
950 with a nice fast hard drive... Big display... Over-clocked...
>
> I know our current machines are faster than older ones, but I really
never thought the PPCs were THAT much faster than the 68Ks... 3 days to
boot?!?! LOL
>
> Derek
>
> On Jan 8, 2014, at 10:44 PM, Scott Holder wrote:
>
>> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got
around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about
it so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten
farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll
see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera and
some studio lights...
>>
>> Scott H.
>
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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218480 is a reply to message #218479] Fri, 10 January 2014 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Derek Morton is currently offline  Derek Morton
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Clearly, but he also indicated (unless I mis-read) the drive image was on a remote computer. I would think the speed difference for a local drive vs networked drive to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10:1. In the grand scheme of things that might not really matter (like adding an hour or two over the course of 3 days).

Derek

On Jan 10, 2014, at 2:58 PM, Jonathan Morton wrote:

> Part of the speed difference will be from emulation, of course.
>
> - Jonathan Morton
>
> On 10 Jan 2014 22:57, "Derek Morton" <thespif@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Ahhhh... Danamania... I wonder what she is up to these days?
>>
>> I am not sure I see the point in this exercise, though a great deal of my ideas are likely considered fruitless by most.
>>
>> How large is the image you are running it from? You mentioned possibly tweaking some of the settings - Perhaps having activity monitor autostart might help you see if there is anything going on (and cpu usage). Do you think much of the slow execution was due to network speed? Perhaps on a 950 with a nice fast hard drive... Big display... Over-clocked...
>>
>> I know our current machines are faster than older ones, but I really never thought the PPCs were THAT much faster than the 68Ks... 3 days to boot?!?! LOL
>>
>> Derek
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2014, at 10:44 PM, Scott Holder wrote:
>>
>>> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera and some studio lights...
>>>
>>> Scott H.
>>
>> --
>> --

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218744 is a reply to message #218476] Fri, 10 January 2014 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Holder is currently offline  Scott Holder
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On 1/10/2014 3:13 PM, TT wrote:
> Really amazing Scott! Thanks for sharing. Would the Linux distro you
> created be useful for people to use for other purposes? I still wonder
> about someone making updates to A/UX to get some more modern web apps
> going, though it may not be possible to make them very usable on the
> ancient hardware, especially without a ton of work. Maybe having some
> seeds germinate with a time lapse would give an interesting contrast
> to the slow boot process. =)

It mostly depends on your definition of "useful". As it stands, plain
console mode is pretty usable, if you're a bit patient. The big
limitation right now is disk access. As happens with old Mac SCSI, it's
very slow. Honestly once programs get running they usually run ok, it's
waiting for the disk to finish churning that's slow. Right now the Linux
boot/root drive is an external SCSI drive. I need to open up the
enclosure and try putting the drive directly in the Mac. I don't think
the LC475 suffers from the issues of slower disk access for external
drives but every bit helps.

There's lots you can do with console mode. Simple games, text adventure
games, IRC, text-mode web browsing through w3m, etc. It's basically as
functional as any modern Linux box would be since it's running a
(mostly) current kernel and libraries.

Right now I'm still tracking issues with X dying when I try to use the
mouse. This is causing me lots of trouble and preventing me from running
much in the way of X apps. However, it's slow enough that I'm not sure
it really matters much. I did run Mozilla on it back in the day when I
had the original ancient Linux running on it, and it wasn't really very
usable. It'd take maybe 5 minutes to get a URL typed in, another 5-10
minutes to load a moderately complex page, and easily more if it was an
especially complex page with Javascript and such. Granted it was a
then-current browser so it was possible to fully browse the web, which
made it interesting. But outside of "neat!" I'm not sure I'd want to
actually try to use it. I mostly used it to have multiple xterms
running, doing various consoley things in anyway. The original classic
Mac OS 7.x or 8.1 were much more usable (and probably still are) with
the plethora of mobile-enabled sites working fairly well on vintage
browsers able to run (iCab, Netscape 4, etc). To my knowledge source
code for the non-Gecko versions of Netscape/Mozilla were never made
available so I have no way of compiling something equally vintage like
Netscape 3 or 4 for m68k Linux.

As for the distro itself, I can't claim any particular credit for it.
The real props go to the Debian m68k mailing list who has been active in
keeping the port alive. It's probably the oldest architecture still
actively supported by Linux and they've put a ton of work into keeping
the kernel booting and working, plus the userland compiled and running.
There are several people keeping old m68k boxes running (mostly Amigas
and an Atari or two) to keep packages built and available. Getting it
installed on a Mac is a little tricky though, so I have been meaning to
write up a process on getting it installed and running on a Mac from
scratch.

I have a IIci that I've had A/UX running on on and off, and one of the
Debian guys has asked me if I could let him access it to try to port
some things to and modernize, but I'm having capacitor problems with it.
I'm hoping to get it recapped sooner or later.

Scott

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218745 is a reply to message #218478] Fri, 10 January 2014 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Holder is currently offline  Scott Holder
Messages: 32
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Member
Oh, there's no point at all beyond "Because I wanted to try". Just part
of the silliness I like to do.

The image is about 5GB. Not very much of it is used, I could probably
slim it down quite a lot. I'm mostly lazy. The drive I'm using is only
3GB total, and I have 2GB devoted to Linux and 1GB to Mac OS.

As for the network speed, given the SCSI speed it might actually have
been faster over the network than locally. I haven't benchmarked the
network speed but I only get about 1 - 1.5 MB/sec out of it. I'm not
sure if this is a factor of the drive or the SCSI drivers in Linux since
I believe it's supposed to be able to get 5MB/s.

When talking about speed, keep in mind we're talking about emulated
code. Fast optimized 68040 code was often faster than poorly written PPC
code in the very early 601 era. For this experiment it's having to
translate the PPC instructions to 68k before executing them - this is
always orders of magnitude slower than native code. It's just usually
you're emulating a slower, obsolete architecture on a much faster newer
architecture (think Rosetta on Intel Mac OS X running PPC code) rather
than the other way around.

Having an activity monitor auto-start is a good idea. I'll check on that.

Scott

On 1/10/2014 3:57 PM, Derek Morton wrote:
> Ahhhh... Danamania... I wonder what she is up to these days?
>
> I am not sure I see the point in this exercise, though a great deal of my ideas are likely considered fruitless by most.
>
> How large is the image you are running it from? You mentioned possibly tweaking some of the settings - Perhaps having activity monitor autostart might help you see if there is anything going on (and cpu usage). Do you think much of the slow execution was due to network speed? Perhaps on a 950 with a nice fast hard drive... Big display... Over-clocked...
>
> I know our current machines are faster than older ones, but I really never thought the PPCs were THAT much faster than the 68Ks... 3 days to boot?!?! LOL
>
> Derek
>
> On Jan 8, 2014, at 10:44 PM, Scott Holder wrote:
>
>> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera and some studio lights...
>>
>> Scott H.

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218746 is a reply to message #218744] Fri, 10 January 2014 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TT is currently offline  TT
Messages: 34
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Scott Holder <scott@iamscott.net> wrote:

>
> I have a IIci that I've had A/UX running on on and off, and one of the
> Debian guys has asked me if I could let him access it to try to port some
> things to and modernize, but I'm having capacitor problems with it. I'm
> hoping to get it recapped sooner or later.
>
> Scott


Sounds good. I think I had seen talk of getting some new stuff compiled for
AU/X a year or so ago, but I don't think it has happened yet. =)

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218747 is a reply to message #218745] Fri, 10 January 2014 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Derek Morton is currently offline  Derek Morton
Messages: 48
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Member

On Jan 10, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Scott Holder wrote:

> Oh, there's no point at all beyond "Because I wanted to try". Just part of the silliness I like to do.
>
> The image is about 5GB. Not very much of it is used, I could probably slim it down quite a lot. I'm mostly lazy. The drive I'm using is only 3GB total, and I have 2GB devoted to Linux and 1GB to Mac OS.
>
> As for the network speed, given the SCSI speed it might actually have been faster over the network than locally. I haven't benchmarked the network speed but I only get about 1 - 1.5 MB/sec out of it. I'm not sure if this is a factor of the drive or the SCSI drivers in Linux since I believe it's supposed to be able to get 5MB/s.

I don't believe network speed on an LC 475 is ever going to achieve 1 MB/sec... That is around it's theoretical maximum (10 Mb/sec) and realistically it probably reaches 400-450 KB/sec maximum... Maybe a bit more if you are going downhill and you have a stiff tailwind. Even if you have one of the Dayna BlueStreak 10/100 cards you aren't likely to hit anything near the 5+ MB/sec speed of the built-in SCSI. If memory serves, the onboard SCSI can achieve close to 6 MB/sec with a fast enough drive. I have certainly exceeded 5 MB/sec using a Quadra 950's built-in SCSI. It's all pretty much a moot point if there isn't too much data being sent though. That's the reason I asked about the size of the image. Though 5 GB is nothing to sneeze at, the difference between .5 MB/sec and 5 MB/sec is not significant if you are looking at 3 days to boot. Now if we were talking about 500 GB...

> When talking about speed, keep in mind we're talking about emulated code. Fast optimized 68040 code was often faster than poorly written PPC code in the very early 601 era. For this experiment it's having to translate the PPC instructions to 68k before executing them - this is always orders of magnitude slower than native code. It's just usually you're emulating a slower, obsolete architecture on a much faster newer architecture (think Rosetta on Intel Mac OS X running PPC code) rather than the other way around.

A big part of the emulation problem, as I understand it, is that you are trying to emulate a RISC processor on a CISC processor. Every RISC op-code will take numerous (slow and ponderous) CISC op-codes to emulate where the reverse (one slow and ponderous CISC turning into several quick and efficient RISC) works much better. But in any case, emulation is a snail-like process... I still shudder at the original SoftPC / Virtual PC offerings... And I think those were PPC only (no 68K option).

> Having an activity monitor auto-start is a good idea. I'll check on that.
>
> Scott

Good luck, and let us know how it's going... Sometime next week I would guess. :-)

Derek

> On 1/10/2014 3:57 PM, Derek Morton wrote:
>> Ahhhh... Danamania... I wonder what she is up to these days?
>>
>> I am not sure I see the point in this exercise, though a great deal of my ideas are likely considered fruitless by most.
>>
>> How large is the image you are running it from? You mentioned possibly tweaking some of the settings - Perhaps having activity monitor autostart might help you see if there is anything going on (and cpu usage). Do you think much of the slow execution was due to network speed? Perhaps on a 950 with a nice fast hard drive... Big display... Over-clocked...
>>
>> I know our current machines are faster than older ones, but I really never thought the PPCs were THAT much faster than the 68Ks... 3 days to boot?!?! LOL
>>
>> Derek
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2014, at 10:44 PM, Scott Holder wrote:
>>
>>> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera and some studio lights...
>>>
>>> Scott H.
>
> --

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Re: Attempting Mac OS X on a 68k Mac [message #218868 is a reply to message #218747] Fri, 10 January 2014 21:00 Go to previous message
Scott Holder is currently offline  Scott Holder
Messages: 32
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Member
I have no idea how much the disk/network access impacts the boot speed.
Having it on a local 5 MB/s drive might well speed it up significantly.
Also I'm sure it's not having to transfer the entirety of the image, but
just the bits its using, so maybe not.

As for SoftPC, there were several 68k versions. I have one myself called
SoftPC Classic that emulates an XT-class machine on a Mac Classic. I've
actually run Windows 3.0 in Real Mode on a Mac Classic. It's...
something to see. If you really, really needed access to a DOS or early
Windows application it'd be usable but not much fun. It'll run on up to
a 68030 at least with the proper application of Wish I Were, but crashes
on a 68040. I suspect it would also run all the way back to a Mac Plus,
but it requires a Superdrive to emulate the PC floppy properly.

There were later versions of SoftPC for 68k that went up the chain of
PCs, including some variety of 286. Haven't tried those. As for CISC vs.
RISC, I'm not sure that really enters into it much when you're emulating
a chip that started at 233mhz and did something like 20-25 MFlops
(according to a quick Googling) on a 33mhz chip doing 4.6 MFlops (also
only according to a quick Googling).

My next goal is to recompile X from the ground up on the thing to see if
it helps with the crashes. I think the event pool is filling up and
overflowing the buffer, killing it, so it might take something more like
a kernel recompile.

Scott

On 1/10/2014 8:06 PM, Derek Morton wrote:
> On Jan 10, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Scott Holder wrote:
>
>> Oh, there's no point at all beyond "Because I wanted to try". Just part of the silliness I like to do.
>>
>> The image is about 5GB. Not very much of it is used, I could probably slim it down quite a lot. I'm mostly lazy. The drive I'm using is only 3GB total, and I have 2GB devoted to Linux and 1GB to Mac OS.
>>
>> As for the network speed, given the SCSI speed it might actually have been faster over the network than locally. I haven't benchmarked the network speed but I only get about 1 - 1.5 MB/sec out of it. I'm not sure if this is a factor of the drive or the SCSI drivers in Linux since I believe it's supposed to be able to get 5MB/s.
> I don't believe network speed on an LC 475 is ever going to achieve 1 MB/sec... That is around it's theoretical maximum (10 Mb/sec) and realistically it probably reaches 400-450 KB/sec maximum... Maybe a bit more if you are going downhill and you have a stiff tailwind. Even if you have one of the Dayna BlueStreak 10/100 cards you aren't likely to hit anything near the 5+ MB/sec speed of the built-in SCSI. If memory serves, the onboard SCSI can achieve close to 6 MB/sec with a fast enough drive. I have certainly exceeded 5 MB/sec using a Quadra 950's built-in SCSI. It's all pretty much a moot point if there isn't too much data being sent though. That's the reason I asked about the size of the image. Though 5 GB is nothing to sneeze at, the difference between .5 MB/sec and 5 MB/sec is not significant if you are looking at 3 days to boot. Now if we were talking about 500 GB...
>
>> When talking about speed, keep in mind we're talking about emulated code. Fast optimized 68040 code was often faster than poorly written PPC code in the very early 601 era. For this experiment it's having to translate the PPC instructions to 68k before executing them - this is always orders of magnitude slower than native code. It's just usually you're emulating a slower, obsolete architecture on a much faster newer architecture (think Rosetta on Intel Mac OS X running PPC code) rather than the other way around.
> A big part of the emulation problem, as I understand it, is that you are trying to emulate a RISC processor on a CISC processor. Every RISC op-code will take numerous (slow and ponderous) CISC op-codes to emulate where the reverse (one slow and ponderous CISC turning into several quick and efficient RISC) works much better. But in any case, emulation is a snail-like process... I still shudder at the original SoftPC / Virtual PC offerings... And I think those were PPC only (no 68K option).
>
>> Having an activity monitor auto-start is a good idea. I'll check on that.
>>
>> Scott
> Good luck, and let us know how it's going... Sometime next week I would guess. :-)
>
> Derek
>
>> On 1/10/2014 3:57 PM, Derek Morton wrote:
>>> Ahhhh... Danamania... I wonder what she is up to these days?
>>>
>>> I am not sure I see the point in this exercise, though a great deal of my ideas are likely considered fruitless by most.
>>>
>>> How large is the image you are running it from? You mentioned possibly tweaking some of the settings - Perhaps having activity monitor autostart might help you see if there is anything going on (and cpu usage). Do you think much of the slow execution was due to network speed? Perhaps on a 950 with a nice fast hard drive... Big display... Over-clocked...
>>>
>>> I know our current machines are faster than older ones, but I really never thought the PPCs were THAT much faster than the 68Ks... 3 days to boot?!?! LOL
>>>
>>> Derek
>>>
>>> On Jan 8, 2014, at 10:44 PM, Scott Holder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Picking up where Danamania left off many years ago, I finally got around to trying to boot Mac OS X on my 68k Mac. I've created a page about it so far at http://iamscott.net/68kosx/ . So far I seem to have gotten farther than she did! I can't say it's exactly usable, per se, but we'll see what comes of it. I also really, really need to get a decent camera and some studio lights...
>>>>
>>>> Scott H.
>> --

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