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Sick Apple2GS [message #216022] Sat, 04 January 2014 16:43 Go to next message
ajross.nz is currently offline  ajross.nz
Messages: 29
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Hi All,

I've been having fun with my new Apple IIGS, which I've been the owner
of for about three weeks when it seems to have died.

I'm not as au fais with the internal workings of the GS as the //e or
the ][+ as these are extremely rare beasts in my part of the world, but
when I start it up, I don't get any usual beep, and the display has a
pinkish/purple border around it with criss/crossing black/white strips.
These flash on and off a few times and then the border alternates
colour through the pallete, still with the black/white strips.

You can see what it looks like here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnu2tux/11760613425/

The last thing I was doing was playing about with AppleWorks and
noticed that it bombed out with the same border and a number on the
bottom of the screen, likely referring some memory address. I can
assume that this means that the system detected some memory issue at
that address.

Since then I've taken all the cards out of the unit, checked the
seating of all movable parts and ensured all contacts are clean.
Everything looks good, but still the problem continues.

Any ideas where to go next or should I give up on this rather expensive
problem child? :( I don't have any electrical experience.

Cheers,

Alistair
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #216025 is a reply to message #216022] Sat, 04 January 2014 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Check the keyboard, the display looks like it is running the self-test automagically
Is the option key pressed? That key is similar to the open-apple key or joystick button 0, so, check also your joystick and the joystick connector
av
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #216026 is a reply to message #216022] Sat, 04 January 2014 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
uyjulian is currently offline  uyjulian
Messages: 59
Registered: July 2013
Karma: 0
Member
Alistair J. Ross wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've been having fun with my new Apple IIGS, which I've been the owner
> of for about three weeks when it seems to have died.
>
> I'm not as au fais with the internal workings of the GS as the //e or
> the ][+ as these are extremely rare beasts in my part of the world, but
> when I start it up, I don't get any usual beep, and the display has a
> pinkish/purple border around it with criss/crossing black/white strips.
> These flash on and off a few times and then the border alternates
> colour through the pallete, still with the black/white strips.
>
> You can see what it looks like here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnu2tux/11760613425/
>
> The last thing I was doing was playing about with AppleWorks and
> noticed that it bombed out with the same border and a number on the
> bottom of the screen, likely referring some memory address. I can
> assume that this means that the system detected some memory issue at
> that address.
>
> Since then I've taken all the cards out of the unit, checked the
> seating of all movable parts and ensured all contacts are clean.
> Everything looks good, but still the problem continues.
>
> Any ideas where to go next or should I give up on this rather expensive
> problem child? :( I don't have any electrical experience.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alistair
>

Try removing all the chips and putting them in.

--
I has a Apple IIGS
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #216064 is a reply to message #216025] Sat, 04 January 2014 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ajross.nz is currently offline  ajross.nz
Messages: 29
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
On 2014-01-04 22:27:52 +0000, Antoine Vignau said:

> Check the keyboard, the display looks like it is running the self-test
> automagically
> Is the option key pressed? That key is similar to the open-apple key or
> joystick button 0, so, check also your joystick and the joystick
> connector
> av

Thanks - I did think of that. I tried it without the keyboard attached
and also giving the keyboard a good bat to see if it made any
difference. None.

When I start the unit up now, I notice that it shows 0100000 or
something similar in the bottom border but other than that no
difference.
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #216065 is a reply to message #216026] Sat, 04 January 2014 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ajross.nz is currently offline  ajross.nz
Messages: 29
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
On 2014-01-04 22:29:21 +0000, uyjulian said:

> Alistair J. Ross wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've been having fun with my new Apple IIGS, which I've been the owner
>> of for about three weeks when it seems to have died.
>>
>> I'm not as au fais with the internal workings of the GS as the //e or
>> the ][+ as these are extremely rare beasts in my part of the world, but
>> when I start it up, I don't get any usual beep, and the display has a
>> pinkish/purple border around it with criss/crossing black/white strips.
>> These flash on and off a few times and then the border alternates
>> colour through the pallete, still with the black/white strips.
>>
>> You can see what it looks like here:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnu2tux/11760613425/
>>
>> The last thing I was doing was playing about with AppleWorks and
>> noticed that it bombed out with the same border and a number on the
>> bottom of the screen, likely referring some memory address. I can
>> assume that this means that the system detected some memory issue at
>> that address.
>>
>> Since then I've taken all the cards out of the unit, checked the
>> seating of all movable parts and ensured all contacts are clean.
>> Everything looks good, but still the problem continues.
>>
>> Any ideas where to go next or should I give up on this rather expensive
>> problem child? :( I don't have any electrical experience.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Alistair
>>
>
> Try removing all the chips and putting them in.

Thanks - I'll try reseating the CPU and any other chips that are
removable, although there doesn't seem that many in the GS compared
with the //e.

Cheers,

Alistair
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #216098 is a reply to message #216064] Sat, 04 January 2014 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
uyjulian is currently offline  uyjulian
Messages: 59
Registered: July 2013
Karma: 0
Member
Alistair J. Ross wrote:
> On 2014-01-04 22:27:52 +0000, Antoine Vignau said:
>
>> Check the keyboard, the display looks like it is running the self-test
>> automagically
>> Is the option key pressed? That key is similar to the open-apple key or
>> joystick button 0, so, check also your joystick and the joystick
>> connector
>> av
>
> Thanks - I did think of that. I tried it without the keyboard attached
> and also giving the keyboard a good bat to see if it made any
> difference. None.
>
> When I start the unit up now, I notice that it shows 0100000 or
> something similar in the bottom border but other than that no
> difference.
>

ADB controller is fried, causing it to hold the option key.



--
I has a Apple IIGS
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #216944 is a reply to message #216022] Wed, 08 January 2014 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Tony Kavadias

On Sunday, 5 January 2014 08:43:55 UTC+11, Alistair J. Ross wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've been having fun with my new Apple IIGS, which I've been the owner
> of for about three weeks when it seems to have died.
>
>
>
> I'm not as au fais with the internal workings of the GS as the //e or
> the ][+ as these are extremely rare beasts in my part of the world, but
> when I start it up, I don't get any usual beep, and the display has a
> pinkish/purple border around it with criss/crossing black/white strips.
>
> These flash on and off a few times and then the border alternates
> colour through the pallete, still with the black/white strips.
>
> You can see what it looks like here:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnu2tux/11760613425/
>
> The last thing I was doing was playing about with AppleWorks and
> noticed that it bombed out with the same border and a number on the
> bottom of the screen, likely referring some memory address. I can
> assume that this means that the system detected some memory issue at
> that address.
>
> Any ideas where to go next or should I give up on this rather expensive
> problem child? :( I don't have any electrical experience.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alistair

What does it do when you boot your Apple IIGS with the keyboard detached from the ADB port?

You may have a faulty keyboard, which is the most likely thing to have happen. Otherwise, it may be what Julian suggests and be a bad ADB chip... or worse, a bad Mega II chip (since it has to implement the soft switches for the keyboard interface).

The Apple IIGS is entering self-test mode, done by holding down the Option and Command keys whilst you switch on the system (or reset it). The fact that the IIGS does not produce the message "System Good" at the end of the test is also a concern, but the self-test is not guaranteed if the IIGS has intolerant 3rd-party [memory] cards installed. You can take out interface cards from inside the machine (with the power off!) one by one until the self-test works. If there are no peripherals attached and no interface cards on the IIGS and the test fails, then something is indeed wrong with the motherboard.


--tonza
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #217013 is a reply to message #216064] Wed, 08 January 2014 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
retrogear is currently offline  retrogear
Messages: 245
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Saturday, January 4, 2014 6:52:43 PM UTC-6, Alistair J. Ross wrote:
> On 2014-01-04 22:27:52 +0000, Antoine Vignau said: > Check the keyboard, the display looks like it is running the self-test > automagically > Is the option key pressed? That key is similar to the open-apple key or > joystick button 0, so, check also your joystick and the joystick > connector > av Thanks - I did think of that. I tried it without the keyboard attached and also giving the keyboard a good bat to see if it made any difference. None. When I start the unit up now, I notice that it shows 0100000 or something similar in the bottom border but other than that no difference.

from the Apple II diagnostic notes:

* Error No Test
* ======== ================
* 01 ROM CHECKSUM
* 02 MOVING INVERSION RAM
* 03 SOFTSWITCH
* 04 RAM ADDRESS
* 05 FPI SPEED
* 06 SERIAL PORTS
* 07 REAL TIME CLOCK
* 08 BATTERY RAM
* 09 FRONT DESK BUS
* 0A SHADOW
* 0B INTERRUPTS
* 0C SOUND TESTS


* If any tests fail then a 6 KHz beep is emmitted.
* A 'System Bad: AABBCCDD' message is displayed.
* where AA is the test number that failed and BB-DD is
* the fail code.

01000000 is the ROM checksum test so my guess is a bad ROM especially since it manages to jump itself into the ROM self-test in the first place. Did you try reseating it or can it be reseated?

Larry
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #217018 is a reply to message #216944] Wed, 08 January 2014 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron Daughtry is currently offline  Aaron Daughtry
Messages: 226
Registered: July 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2014-01-08 10:45:51 +0000, Tony Kavadias said:

> On Sunday, 5 January 2014 08:43:55 UTC+11, Alistair J. Ross wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've been having fun with my new Apple IIGS, which I've been the owner>
>> of for about three weeks when it seems to have died.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not as au fais with the internal workings of the GS as the //e or>
>> the ][+ as these are extremely rare beasts in my part of the world,
>> but> when I start it up, I don't get any usual beep, and the display
>> has a> pinkish/purple border around it with criss/crossing black/white
>> strips.>> These flash on and off a few times and then the border
>> alternates> colour through the pallete, still with the black/white
>> strips.
>>
>> You can see what it looks like here:>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnu2tux/11760613425/
>>
>> The last thing I was doing was playing about with AppleWorks and>
>> noticed that it bombed out with the same border and a number on the>
>> bottom of the screen, likely referring some memory address. I can>
>> assume that this means that the system detected some memory issue at>
>> that address.
>>
>> Any ideas where to go next or should I give up on this rather
>> expensive> problem child? :( I don't have any electrical experience.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Alistair
>
> What does it do when you boot your Apple IIGS with the keyboard
> detached from the ADB port?
>
> You may have a faulty keyboard, which is the most likely thing to have
> happen. Otherwise, it may be what Julian suggests and be a bad ADB
> chip... or worse, a bad Mega II chip (since it has to implement the
> soft switches for the keyboard interface).
>
> The Apple IIGS is entering self-test mode, done by holding down the
> Option and Command keys whilst you switch on the system (or reset it).
> The fact that the IIGS does not produce the message "System Good" at
> the end of the test is also a concern, but the self-test is not
> guaranteed if the IIGS has intolerant 3rd-party [memory] cards
> installed. You can take out interface cards from inside the machine
> (with the power off!) one by one until the self-test works. If there
> are no peripherals attached and no interface cards on the IIGS and the
> test fails, then something is indeed wrong with the motherboard.
>
>
> --tonza

Hi Tony,

Thanks for that. One of the first things I tried was to remove the
keyboard completely. No dice I'm afraid.

I also completely stripped the machine of interface cards including the
Disk ][ controller. I'm going to try and reseat the chips one last time
before I give up on this machine.

Cheers,

Alistair
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #217104 is a reply to message #217018] Thu, 09 January 2014 07:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sicklittlemonkey is currently offline  sicklittlemonkey
Messages: 570
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Thursday, 9 January 2014 08:31:32 UTC+13, Alistair Ross wrote:
> Disk ][ controller. I'm going to try and reseat the chips one last time
> before I give up on this machine.

There was a similar thread before, unfortunately without a conclusion, but an interesting workaround - maybe pull one of the button lines low, at least for start-up:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/bHgH aY9ns1E

Cheers,
Nick.
Re: Sick Apple2GS [message #241744 is a reply to message #217104] Sat, 01 February 2014 06:55 Go to previous message
sicklittlemonkey is currently offline  sicklittlemonkey
Messages: 570
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Friday, 10 January 2014 01:09:04 UTC+13, sicklittlemonkey wrote:
> There was a similar thread before, unfortunately without a conclusion, but an interesting workaround - maybe pull one of the button lines low, at least for start-up:

This solution has just been verified on Alistair's ROM 3 IIgs by plugging in a joystick. The keyboard works normally. The ADB controller is not "fried".

** I wonder how many IIgs motherboards have been binned, when the solution is as simple as plugging in a joystick! **

Comments from hardware folk on this forum would be much appreciated: My uneducated hypothesis is that a part connected to the game port circuit, maybe the ADB microcontroller, maybe the '251 multiplexor, has had its internal resistance rise above that of a pull-down resistor somewhere else.

Here is some more detail obtained with a logic probe ...

All pins on the ADB chip have similar high/low/pulse activity as those on working board (keyboard attached or not - activity is the same) except for pins 39 and 40 which connect to SW0 and SW1. On the faulty board these pins act like they are not connected. I haven't yet measured the exact voltage they're sitting at.

Plugging in a joystick (tested Apple "Joystick //e, //c", CH Products) either before or after power-on completely normalizes the circuit. Pins 39 and 40 show low - unless a button is pressed, in which case they show high.

Interestingly, if the joystick is then unplugged the normal operation continues until power-off.

The schematics don't show how SW0 and SW1 pulled down, so I'll need to trace that unless someone knows off-hand.

Cheers,
Nick.
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